What would Scottie Pippens number look like in this era?

[97 bulls]

Going back to 05, it's no secret that the NBA has changed the rules to enable perimeter players to be able to freely move in an effort to manufacture another Jordan. Because of this phenomenon, players offensive numbers have increased. So much so, that many believe that Jordan would averge 50ppg today. That's almost double his career average of 30ppg and roughly 20% higher than his all time high of 37ppg.

So my question is, what would Pippen average today? Mind you prime Pip contributed about 20pts a night.

[tpols]

he'd be like a (prime) andre iguodala today.

a guy like kawhi does what he does, but with much better shooting and scoring.

[DoctorP]

he'd be like a (prime) andre iguodala today.

sure he'd have better spacing, but his lack of jumper would stand out next to other stars.

a guy like kawhi does what he does, but with much better shooting and scoring.

I think Iguodala is a perfect comparison. A little bit better ball handling from pippen, more strength from Iggy

[SouBeachTalents]

Still wouldn't be better than Wade, which obviously is what this thread is really about :lol

[Roundball_Rock]

Probably 25/9/7 at his peak. He would be more dominant defensively than back then.


Still wouldn't be better than Wade, which obviously is what this thread is really about :lol

No, it is about the hypocrisy. The same people who say MJ would score 50 today say Pippen would score exactly the same today in a "much easier" (defensive) era as they always assert (except when one particular 90's player is involved).

Just look at the posts above yours. Pippen=Iggy. :roll: Iggy is a role player today; Pippen was all-NBA 1st team and a MVP candidate. That, applying their logic, must mean MJ played in a very weak era where Iggy would be a big star. Damn, so LeBron is in a much tougher era!

[1987_Lakers]

Yea, I don't see his scoring rising much considering he wasn't a great shooter or a consistent half court scorer.

I see something like 22/8/6/2

Similar numbers he had in the 90's. Keep in mind those early 90's Bulls played at around a 95 pace. The average pace in today's league is around 100, not much of a difference.

[tpols]

Iggy was an all star, all defense, and FMVP who had a very similar blend of athleticism and skill strengths to scottie pippen.

Scottie was a slightly better scorer, honestly... iggy amazes me more with his passing / playmaking. His ability to play in slow motion, the patience, and decipher a defense was extraordinary. Everytime he caught a pass in the middle of the court in transition with a million parts moving around him, you could tell the ball would be safe.

He was the glue to the dubs dynasty playmaking wise. He came to the dubs as a role player, but when he started falling off, so did the overall teamwork.

[97 bulls]

I'd like to get an actual number here.

Andre Iguodala at best mustered 19.9ppg in an era where the rules were changed to help him score. So if Pip played today, the rule changes would have no effect on his offensive output? Even less seeing as how he played alongside Jordan?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Not better than Wade and a greater version of Iguodala?

So basically the consensus of Pippen :lol

[Roundball_Rock]

Yea, I don't see his scoring rising much considering he wasn't a great shooter or a consistent half court scorer.

I see something like 22/8/6/2

What is your take on the frequent claim that the 90's were a much tougher defensive era than today? You obviously watched then and now.

To me I think every 90's perimeter player would get a slight bump in scoring. That's me, though. The people who are anti-Pippen also tend to be the people who say MJ would go from 32-33 PPG to 50 PPG today.


Iggy was an all star, all defense, and FMVP who had a very similar blend of athleticism and skill strengths to scottie pippen.


No coincidence: Pippen was Iggy's hero. However, saying Pippen=Iggy is like saying Zach Lavine=Drexler.

Iggy was a 1x all-star. Nowhere near accomplished as Pippen. To hold your position you have to believe the 90's were a very weak era where Iggy would be a superstar whereas he is a role player in the 2010's.

[97 bulls]

Yea, I don't see his scoring rising much considering he wasn't a great shooter or a consistent half court scorer.

I see something like 22/8/6/2

Similar numbers he had in the 90's. Keep in mind those early 90's Bulls played at around a 95 pace. The average pace in today's league is around 100, not much of a difference.

Lol. Ok. So what would would 94 Pippen had done? That was the year Jordan left. He averaged 22ppg that year. Again this is just an estimate.

[1987_Lakers]

I'd like to get an actual number here.

Andre Iguodala at best mustered 19.9ppg in an era where the rules were changed to help him score. So if Pip played today, the rule changes would have no effect on his offensive output? Even less seeing as how he played alongside Jordan?

To be fair, Andre mustered 20 ppg in 2008 playing on a team with a 90.4 pace (last in the NBA), the league average ppg was actually lower in 2008 than it was in 1994. The Iguodola comparison is actually spot on, both are good all around players who can handle the ball and play defense, but lack shooting. Pippen would be a better version of that.

[Monta Ellis MVP]

I do not think he will be better. I watched the Last Dance documentary and it showed how Mike mentored Scottie and pushed him to exceed his own expectations. Scottie talked about it too. Mike showed Scottie how to be great and without him he might end up as another unpolished athletic kid who doesn’t pan out.

[SouBeachTalents]

I do not think he will be better. I watched the Last Dance documentary and it showed how Mike mentored Scottie and pushed him to exceed his own expectations. Scottie talked about it too. Mike showed Scottie how to be great and without him he might end up as another unpolished athletic kid who doesn’t pan out.
Shut up warriorfag

[97 bulls]

To be fair, Andre mustered 20 ppg in 2008 playing on a team with a 90.4 pace (last in the NBA), the league average ppg was actually lower in 2008 than it was in 1994. The Iguodola comparison is actually spot on, both are good all around players who can handle the ball and play defense, but lack shooting. Pippen would be a better version of that.

Again. He did that in an era where the league changed the rules to help him score. So would Iggy still be a 20ppg scorer in the 90s?

[HBK_Kliq_2]

25/8/8 type numbers if he's the man on the team and taking a couple extra 3 point shots a game. Iggy mixed with Russell Westbrook is how I would see it. I can see him averaging a triple double if he was the starting PG under Mike D'antoni

[Smook A.]

Im guessing Prime Pippen would probably average something like 24/7/6 in this era

Think Paul George, but a better playmaker

[97 bulls]

One irony is as Pippen's reputation has risen overall, on ISH he has slid backward. Now he is Iggy. You have to give credit to 3ball and other MJ stans for succeeding in this push.

This shows the blatant double standard here. It's a clear agenda. Pips reputation on here has always been disrespectful. In literally every other venue, Pippen is highly respected. Here. A tall Mo Williams lol.

[Roundball_Rock]

Pippen put up the same numbers Grant Hill did, except with elite defense. Does that mean Iggy>Hill since Iggy played defense. That is the logical conclusion, is it not?

Man, MJ must have been in a joke era where guys worse than Iggy were 1st team all-NBA and MVP candidates. If his era was that bad he can't be taken seriously as a GOAT candidate.


This shows the blatant double standard here. It's a clear agenda. Pips reputation on here has always been disrespectful. In literally every other venue, Pippen is highly respected. Here. A tall Mo Williams lol.

Mo Williams or Iggy. :lol

[Monta Ellis MVP]

He would not score as many points as Paul George. Paul George is a better scorer than Pippen. Pippen is a better defender though. If Paul George never injured his leg he might of been as good as a defender.

[tpols]

To be fair, Andre mustered 20 ppg in 2008 playing on a team with a 90.4 pace (last in the NBA).


Thats a great point.

The '94 bulls, '99 rockets, '00 blazers, and '08 sixers all played at a ~ 90 pace.

And pippens rockets and blazers had far, far more talent than the '08 sixers did offensively. So there's no reason to think pippen would do much more.

low 20 something ppg, 7 or 8 boards, and 5 or 6 assists.

Another decent comparison for him would be paul george.

I dont know why pippen fans are so slighted by that. These are very similar style and impact players.

[97 bulls]

Pippen put up the same numbers Grant Hill did, except with elite defense. Does that mean Iggy>Hill since Iggy played defense. That is the logical conclusion, is it not?



Mo Williams or Iggy. :lol

Something has to give here. Kyrie Irving in the 90s is gonna be a Kevin Johnson (lower stats) But Pips numbers dont change? Even the Grant Hill comparison. The two averaged the same PPG for most of their respective primes, but Hill is far and away better? Even though Hill didnt share the Ball with MJ?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

So Pippen went from being compared to Wade, lost there, and now is being compared to....Iguodala? Hahahaha!

Hey, not judging. Fanboys gotta take what they can get :oldlol:

[97 bulls]

Thats a great point.

The '94 bulls, '99 rockets, '00 blazers, and '08 sixers all played at a ~ 90 pace.

And pippens rockets and blazers had far, far more talent than the '08 sixers did offensively. So there's no reason to think pippen would do much more.

low 20 something ppg, 7 or 8 boards, and 5 or 6 assists.

Another decent comparison for him would be paul george.

I dont know why pippen fans are so slighted by that. These are very similar style and impact players.

I already addressed the Iggy comparison. Maybe Iggy is a 15-16 PPG in the 90s and the rule changed helped him achieve 19ppg. You cant say the rule changes helped guys like Iverson and Anthony but not Iggy.

[1987_Lakers]

What is your take on the frequent claim that the 90's were a much tougher defensive era than today? You obviously watched then and now.

To me I think every 90's perimeter player would get a slight bump in scoring. That's me, though. The people who are anti-Pippen also tend to be the people who say MJ would go from 32-33 PPG to 50 PPG today.



No coincidence: Pippen was Iggy's hero. However, saying Pippen=Iggy is like saying Zach Lavine=Drexler.

Iggy was a 1x all-star. Nowhere near accomplished as Pippen. To hold your position you have to believe the 90's were a very weak era where Iggy would be a superstar whereas he is a role player in the 2010's.

I see 90's perimeter players getting a boost in scoring in today's league too, more specifically those players who were ultra good shooters, since the NBA relies so much on 3 point shooting today you need a players who are either good shooters or good at finishing inside. Players like Mark Price, Abdul-Rauf, Miller & Glen Rice etc would thrive playing in today's league because they could shoot, guards who could not shoot consistently would have a harder time to adjust, but overall perimeter players from the 90's would see their stats go up playing in 2020.

[Roundball_Rock]

Statistically Pippen, Hill, Iggy, George are all similar players (if you ignore that Iggy was only briefly putting up those numbers on terrible teams while the others guys did it for sustained periods on good teams, except Hill whose teams were always average).

Statistically Harden>Kobe and West>>Wade. Peak Lavine is similar to peak Drexler. Westbrook>>>Magic, 21 year old Trae Young>Magic. Shall we continue?

Yet I bet not a single one of the people saying Iggy=Pippen would say Hill=Pippen. In fact when Hill is discussed on ISH his offense is praised (scoring 20-21 PPG--exactly the same as Pippen).

[red1]

24-26 points 8 rebounds 8 assists 2 steals 1 block

[RockTheCradle]

22/9/8 with 2 steals and 1+bpg on 46/34/76 shooting splits.
Much better than Iggy

[Roundball_Rock]

I already addressed the Iggy comparison. Maybe Iggy is a 15-16 PPG in the 90s and the rule changed helped him achieve 19ppg. You cant say the rule changes helped guys like Iverson and Anthony but not Iggy.

Jordan scored 30-33 in the 90's but he would go to 50 PPG; Pippen would go from 22 PPG to 20 PPG (Iggy). How does that work? Pippen wouldn't benefit from more open lanes and a lack of shot blocking centers? Pippen wouldn't be taking more threes?

I bet if you posted the OP about Hill they would be saying Hill would be 30/10/9 or something.

[red1]

I see 90's perimeter players getting a boost in scoring in today's league too, more specifically those players who were ultra good shooters, since the NBA relies so much on 3 point shooting today you need a players who are either good shooters or good at finishing inside. Players like Mark Price, Abdul-Rauf, Miller & Glen Rice etc would thrive playing in today's league because they could shoot, guards who could not shoot consistently would have a harder time to adjust, but overall perimeter players from the 90's would see their stats go up playing in 2020.

the scoring is definitely inflated. thats undeniable. any skilled player from the 90's would get a boost.

[RogueBorg]

Pippen is highly respected. Here. A tall Mo Williams lol.

Let's not get crazy, no sane person thinks Mo Williams was better, they might be trolling you guys.

I think Pippen was a great player, I just don't think he's this god-like figure people are making him out to be. That's probably where the disconnect is, you all say we think he's Mo Williams, no we don't. Roundball_Rock has these stupid ideas we think he's around the level of Rodney McCray, he's got an agenda. I like reading 3ball's threads, I just don't think Pippen is as bad as he says. Don't lump us in with 3ball.

[1987_Lakers]

I'd like to get an actual number here.

Andre Iguodala at best mustered 19.9ppg in an era where the rules were changed to help him score. So if Pip played today, the rule changes would have no effect on his offensive output? Even less seeing as how he played alongside Jordan?

We are talking about 2008 here, if it was easier to score in 2008 then why did the league average more points in 1994?

Does 2008 Iggy suddenly become a 25 ppg player in 2020 simply because it was easier to score compared to 2008? No, simply because the eye test tells me Iggy is no where near a #1 option as a scorer. Sometimes there is a flaw in thinking past players would be better in today's league simply because the scoring is easier.

Stylistically, Pippen and Iggy are similar, but Pippen does stuff like playmaking, defense, rebounding at a higher level, his scoring is even more consistent. Which is why I think he would be a better version of Iggy, but the eye test tells me that he would not be a top tier elite scorer. Paul George to me is a better scorer than Pippen, he has averaged 24 ppg in his last 4 seasons, which is why I see Pippen averaging 22, but it also depends on the situation he is in.

[Roundball_Rock]

Roundball_Rock has these stupid ideas we think he's around the level of Rodney McCray

He literally is being compared to Iggy by multiple posters in this very thread.

In another thread earlier today your MJ buddies were asking if Pippen was even top 20 in the 90's.

I remember BruceBlitz hated Pippen and said Pippen was top 40 all-time; now people are saying Pippen is=Iggy and worse than Kyrie. Don't blame what people say on me. :lol These are your peeps.

[tpols]

Statistically Pippen, Hill, Iggy, George are all similar players (if you ignore that Iggy was only briefly putting up those numbers on terrible teams while the others guys did it for sustained periods on good teams, except Hill whose teams were always average).

Statistically Harden>Kobe and West>>Wade. Peak Lavine is similar to peak Drexler. Westbrook>>>Magic, 21 year old Trae Young>Magic. Shall we continue?


You're making lame comparisons.

Westbrook has absolutely nowhere near magic's efficiency, skill, play style, or physical frame. Harden and kobe play nothing alike, plus the former falls apart in the playoffs literally every year. West and wade play nothing alike.

Trae and magic?

:biggums:

You've been laying down some goofy arguments bro.

Like when you said its easier to get assists nowadays because magic and stockton did so much better than westbrook and rubio. :roll:

[Roundball_Rock]

Stylistically, Pippen and Iggy are similar, but Pippen does stuff like playmaking, defense, rebounding at a higher level, his scoring is even more consistent. Which is why I think he would be a better version of Iggy, but the eye test tells me that he would not be a top tier elite scorer. Paul George to me is a better scorer than Pippen, he has averaged 24 ppg in his last 4 seasons, which is why I see Pippen averaging 22, but it also depends on the situation he is in.

Good points--but keep in mind George averaged 28 PPG last year and was second in scoring. 24 may be his average but his ceiling is considerably higher.

As to Pippen, his highest season was 8th in scoring (3rd among perimeter players) in 94'. Today 8th in scoring is 27 PPG. 22.0 ppg would be 19th today. So there has been noticeable scoring inflation.

2020 Scoring Leaders

Points Per Game

1. James Harden • HOU 34.4
2. Bradley Beal • WAS 30.5
3. Giannis Antetokounmpo • MIL 29.6
4. Trae Young • ATL 29.6
5. Damian Lillard • POR 28.9
6. Luka Dončić • DAL 28.7
7. Russell Westbrook • HOU 27.5
8. Kawhi Leonard • LAC 26.9
9. Anthony Davis • LAL 26.7
10. Devin Booker • PHO 26.1

1994 Scoring Leaders

1. David Robinson* • SAS 29.8
2. Shaquille O'Neal* • ORL 29.3
3. Hakeem Olajuwon* • HOU 27.3
4. Dominique Wilkins* • TOT 26.0
5. Karl Malone* • UTA 25.2
6. Patrick Ewing* • NYK 24.5
7. Mitch Richmond* • SAC 23.4
8. Scottie Pippen* • CHI 22.0
9. Charles Barkley* • PHO 21.6
10. Glen Rice • MIA 21.1

As to Iggy and 2008:

2008 Scoring Leaders

1. LeBron James • CLE 30.0
2. Kobe Bryant* • LAL 28.3
3. Allen Iverson* • DEN 26.4
4. Carmelo Anthony • DEN 25.7
5. Amar'e Stoudemire • PHO 25.2
6. Kevin Martin • SAC 23.7
7. Dirk Nowitzki • DAL 23.6
8. Michael Redd • MIL 22.7
9. Richard Jefferson • NJN 22.6
10. Chris Bosh • TOR 22.3

[Roundball_Rock]

Westbrook has absolutely nowhere near magic's efficiency, skill play style, or playoff success. Harden and kobe play nothing alike, plus the former falls apart in the playoffs literally every year. West and wade play nothing alike.


It is a simple argument: statistics. I didn't hear this nuance when Pippen and Iggy were compared-. :oldlol:


he'd be like a (prime) andre iguodala today.

:oldlol:

I pointed this out to point out the stupidity of the Iggy comparison solely based on peak statistics. Let's slow it down for you:

*People brought up Iggy as a comp for Pippen.
*People cited statistics to bolster their claim that they are similar.
*I posted other examples to show how statistics can be misleading.

This is not complicated. If you don't like stupid logic being exposed, don't use stupid logic.


Like when you said its easier to get assists nowadays

No, I said assists were easier to get nowadays because assists are inflated today. It was simple. 10+ assists are hard today; they were routine back then. How do we know? Mathematics. How many players average 10+ in this era? 12-14 did it in that era.

Then again, since you think Iggy=Pippen perhaps you genuinely think Michael Adams=LeBron James as a passer.

[tpols]

People compared pippen and iguodala because they are similar style athletes and have nearly identical skillsets.

Then when you look at the stats, you see that was a similar profile as well. Everybody agrees with it.

You counter by comparing westbrook and trae young to magic johnson.

:biggums:

:roll:

[Phoenix]

Crazy how there isn't a single center in the top 10 scoring in 2020. In 94 you had 4 centers and 2 PFs. To repeat what I said in another thread, Pippen's numbers are boosted in 2020. And you can go right down the line from there. A healthy Tmac? Vince? Grant Hill? Everyone is having career year type numbers every season they're healthy. The league has been modified expressly to showcase players like that.

[Roundball_Rock]

Then when you look at the stats, you see that was a similar profile as well.

So is this, except more scoring:

Player A: 25/8/9
Player B: 20/7/11

Both are triple double machines who post high assist totals and high rebounding totals for PG's.

Yet suddenly with this case we need nuance, need to look at the caliber of player, etc. :oldlol: With Pippen, Kyrie>Pippen. Iggy=Pippen. PPG comparison. Boom. No other "analysis" required.

[tpols]

Crazy how there isn't a single center in the top 10 scoring in 2020. In 94 you had 4 centers and 2 PFs. To repeat what I said in another thread, Pippen's numbers are boosted in 2020. And you can go right down the line from there. A healthy Tmac? Vince? Grant Hill? Everyone is having career year type numbers every season they're healthy. The league has been modified expressly to showcase players like that.


that's true, but pippen is nowhere near the scorer or shooter of a tmac and vince carter... who are also world class finishers and dunkers.

Scottie has defense over them, but the point of this thread seems to insinuate pippen would magically become an alpha dog scorer in todays league.

And there's no current justification for that. He didnt have that elite scoring motor, it wasnt his style.

[tpols]

So is this, except more scoring:

Player A: 25/8/9
Player B: 20/7/11

Both are triple double machines who post high assist totals and high rebounding totals for PG's.

Yet suddenly with this case we need nuance, need to look at the caliber of player, etc. :oldlol: With Pippen, Kyrie>Pippen. Iggy=Pippen. PPG comparison. Boom. No other "analysis" required.

you're still not doing a qualitative analysis to compliment the stats.

Notice... we did the former first, and used the latter as further justification.

You're just... doing pure latter.

Westbrook to Magic. smh. You should be banned for that tbh.

[Roundball_Rock]

Crazy how there isn't a single center in the top 10 scoring in 2020. In 94 you had 4 centers and 2 PFs. To repeat what I said in another thread, Pippen's numbers are boosted in 2020. And you can go right down the line from there. A healthy Tmac? Vince? Grant Hill? Everyone is having career year type numbers every season they're healthy. The league has been modified expressly to showcase players like that.

Agreed. The rules have been changed and the game has changed in a favorable way. A player like Pippen would feast on the open lanes that exist today.

I bet if this thread were posted about Hill they would say Hill would be a monster today. Yet Hill had identical numbers to Pippen. Note this the next time the two are compared in another thread. You will always hear how vastly better Hill was on offense and how that offset Pippen's defense. Meanwhile both were scoring 20-21 PPG and having similar assist totals.

Does that mean Iggy=Hill? The logical conclusion is yes but since we are dealing with intellectual dishonesty they won't say that.


you're still not doing a qualitative analysis to compliment the stats.


Who do you bring up as a comp to Magic, genius? There aren't many players like Magic with his profile at PG. Westbrook, Oscar, Kidd are about it. Only one of them plays today. I can't help it if my knowledge base dwarfs yours and you fail to grasp these are the only statistical comps to Magic. Stick to comparing HOF players to 1 time all-stars.

Iggy=Pippen is as dumb as saying Lavine=Drexler or Magic=Westbrook, which you are admitting. What you are not admitting is your agenda and inconsistency. Rage over Magic/Westbrook while putting out a dumb Iggy=Pippen comp. By your own admission, your comp was so dumb it warrants banning. Take your own advice.

[G0ATbe]

If MJ averages 50 today as the old heads say...I see no reason why Pippen wouldn’t get around 40 a game

[Roundball_Rock]

If MJ averages 50 today as the old heads say...I see no reason why Pippen wouldn’t get around 40 a game

MJ would go from 30-33 to 50; Pippen from 22 to 20. :lol

[Overdrive]

If Pippen played on a crap team scoring might go up to 26+, anything comparable to the Bulls Ithink his rpg and especially apg would dramatically increase.

I'd say he'd top out at 25/10/10 in an ideal season. Prime stats around that with a bit lower apg rpg.

Iggy is a more athletic Schrempf, who was a poor man's Pippen.

[Phoenix]

that's true, but pippen is nowhere near the scorer or shooter of a tmac and vince carter... who are also world class finishers and dunkers.

Scottie has defense over them, but the point of this thread seems to insinuate pippen would magically become an alpha dog scorer in todays league.

And there's no current justification for that. He didnt have that elite scoring motor, it wasnt his style.

I'm not saying he is, but no way does he not get some kind of bump. In this league 25ppg barely registers as an 'elite' scorer when the entire top 10 list is 26ppg or over. 22ppg in 1994 would be considered a 'very good scoring' average in the same way 24-25 ppg would be considered today. A 22ppg scorer nowadays isn't even a top 15 scoring average. Derozan is sitting at 22.2 right now. That's 18th. I think his scoring situationally could be anywhere from 22 to 25 depending on team makeup. This era accomodates someone like Harden scoring 36ppg and Westbrook as the second scorer doing 27ppg. That's where we are now. 30 years ago when MJ was dropping 35 or 37 the second scorer wasn't close to 20ppg.

Everything has scaled up in the modern NBA and how we perceive numbers has to shift accordingly.

[Roundball_Rock]

In this league 25ppg barely registers as an 'elite' scorer when the entire top 10 list is 26ppg or over. 22ppg in 1994 would be considered a 'very good scoring' average in the same way 24-25 ppg would be considered today. A 22ppg scorer nowadays isn't even a top 15 scoring average. Derozan is sitting at 22.2 right now. That's 18th.

Exactly. It is odd to look at scoring inflation and say a guy who was 8th in scoring back then would be 19th today. Moreover, the people ahead of him tended to be bigs. He was 3rd among perimeter players but he would be 16th among perimeter players today? To believe this you have to believe the players today are>>>90's perimeter players as scorers. Some people do believe that--but those aren't the peeps who go around diminishing Pippen. :lol

The Iggy sideshow was non-sensical. When Iggy scored 19.9 he was 29th in scoring in 2008. Somehow 29th in 2008=8th in 1994.

It is really idiotic but they don't want to own the logical conclusions of idiocy. If you are saying Pippen falls off that much then there is a domino affect where other players from that era fall off to a similar degree and today's players get a boost if they played in the 90's. For example, if 20' DeRozen>Pippen as a scorer then logically it follows that 20' DeRozen would be easily top 10 in scoring in the 90's if Pippen could get to 8th. Peak DeRozen (27 PPG, 5th in 17') would be even better. The implication here is DeRozen would be putting up numbers better than Drexler in the 90's. If he scored 27 now, which is what peak Drexler did, DeRozen in the 90's would be scoring 30+.

How about Lavine? 26/5/4 in 2020. He isn't even a top 10 scorer in today's league. What would he, if you take their position, be in the 90's? 29/7/6? If a player put those numbers up what would that make them?

[tpols]

I'm not saying he is, but no way does he not get some kind of bump. In this league 25ppg barely registers as an 'elite' scorer when the entire top 10 list is 26ppg or over. 22ppg in 1994 would be considered a 'very good scoring' average in the same way 24-25 ppg would be considered today. A 22ppg scorer nowadays isn't even a top 15 scoring average. Derozan is sitting at 22.2 right now. That's 18th. I think his scoring situationally could be anywhere from 22 to 25 depending on team makeup. This era accomodates someone like Harden scoring 36ppg and Westbrook as the second scorer doing 27ppg. That's where we are now. 30 years ago when MJ was dropping 35 or 37 the second scorer wasn't close to 20ppg.

Everything has scaled up in the modern NBA and how we perceive numbers has to shift accordingly.



Even in '94, pippen still didnt take over 20 shots a game. It's not his style to chuck like a westbrook or harden. He's waaaay better than them though imo overall.

Doesnt mean hed put up 30 ppg like them. And thats honestly a good thing, both those guys play cancerous.

Durant, Kawhi, Lebron, Davis, and Curry are the legit cream of the crop scoring wise today.

[3ball]

Same as before... 16/6/5 career.... 22 ppg peak

Except maybe less because he wouldn't be featured like Andre Roberson due his poor shooting

So peak jeff green stats might be Pippen's prime today, just like before

[Roundball_Rock]

Same as before... 16/6/5 career.... 22 ppg peak

Except maybe less because he wouldn't be featured like Andre Roberson due his poor shooting

So peak jeff green stats might be Pippen's prime today, just like before

What would MJ score today? 31-33 like in the 90's?

[tpols]

Derozan is a better scorer than pippen. He's just worse.... very demonstrably at every other facet of basketball.

this mfer is giving some retarded analogies.

[Roundball_Rock]

Derozan is a better scorer than pippen. He's just worse.... very demonstrably at every other facet of basketball.

this mfer is giving some retarded analogies.

We are flying too far above the rim for you. The point with DeRozan is he isn't even a top 15 scorer today--he is barely top 20. You just said he>a guy who was 8th in scoring as a first option in the 90's. Grasp it?


A 22ppg scorer nowadays isn't even a top 15 scoring average. Derozan is sitting at 22.2 right now. That's 18th.

18th today>8th in 94'. That is your position, tpols. Don't run from it. Own it. Let's go to the tape:


Derozan is a better scorer than pippen

So what about the other consequences of that "reasoning"? DeRozan is 18th in scoring today. Lavine is 12th. What does he become in 1994? As you said, a much better scorer than the 8th place scorer in 94' is 18th today. So how high does Lavine climb if he played in Pippen's (apparently extremely weak) era since Lavine>DeRozan in scoring by 26-22 this year?

[Smoke117]

Still with the Scottie Pippen threads? Kblaze start banning people who make Pippen threads. I don't care if they are for or against him. It's just tiresome now.

[imdaman99]

24-26 points 8 rebounds 8 assists 2 steals 1 block

Be careful overrating Scottie right there, Lebron averaged 27-7-7 throughout his career playing 'in this era'. Scottie is a poor man's Lebron.

[imdaman99]

Still with the Scottie Pippen threads? Kblaze start banning people who make Pippen threads. I don't care if they are for or against him. It's just tiresome now.

Shutup smoke, this is as much action you're gonna get on here on one of your guys. At least until Gordon Hayward wins MVP in 2023.

[red1]

Be careful overrating Scottie right there, Lebron averaged 27-7-7 throughout his career playing 'in this era'. Scottie is a poor man's Lebron.

league stats are inflated now, gradually inflating since the 2000's. that's an undeniable fact.

[Roundball_Rock]

league stats are inflated now, gradually inflating since the 2000's. that's an undeniable fact.

Especially in scoring. It is pretty obvious. Lavine is scoring 26 and he isn't even a top 10 scorer today. In the 90's if you scored 26 you were a top 5 scorer.

[Smoke117]

Be careful overrating Scottie right there, Lebron averaged 27-7-7 throughout his career playing 'in this era'. Scottie is a poor man's Lebron.

As Red1 said, stats have become inflated over time as the years have gone by. It's not like something changed in the mid 2000s and it's been like that ever since. The way the game was played in 2010 is not how it's played in 2020. Hell, there's a bigger difference between 2010 and 2020 than there is 2000 to 2010. You can just see that in the pace. In 2010 the Cavs were playing at a 91.4 pace. In 2020 the Lakers play at a 100.9. (and that doesn't even put them in the top 10)

[97 bulls]

We are talking about 2008 here, if it was easier to score in 2008 then why did the league average more points in 1994?

Does 2008 Iggy suddenly become a 25 ppg player in 2020 simply because it was easier to score compared to 2008? No, simply because the eye test tells me Iggy is no where near a #1 option as a scorer. Sometimes there is a flaw in thinking past players would be better in today's league simply because the scoring is easier.

Stylistically, Pippen and Iggy are similar, but Pippen does stuff like playmaking, defense, rebounding at a higher level, his scoring is even more consistent. Which is why I think he would be a better version of Iggy, but the eye test tells me that he would not be a top tier elite scorer. Paul George to me is a better scorer than Pippen, he has averaged 24 ppg in his last 4 seasons, which is why I see Pippen averaging 22, but it also depends on the situation he is in.

Ooooooh now you want to implement the eye test. Because the stats dont line up with your agenda. Come on bro. Like I stated earlier, something has gotta give. You cant have it both ways.

All this thread has done, is back you Pippen hater/Jordan agenda zealots into a corner. If stats are gonna be utilized, we have to apply context when using those stats. If style is gonna be utilized, again we have to apply context. Steph Curry and Mahmoud Abdul Rauf have the same playing style. Does that mean that Rauf is a 2 time MVP today?

Going back to Pippen, theres a reason he was so highly regarded when he played. Theres no doubt that Pippen would be a consistent 24/9/8 player with a peak of 26/10/9-10 in todays league and be the best wing defender in the game. That's why hes comparable to other greats. That's why ESPN put him at 21.

[Phoenix]

Even in '94, pippen still didnt take over 20 shots a game. It's not his style to chuck like a westbrook or harden. He's waaaay better than them though imo overall.

Doesnt mean hed put up 30 ppg like them. And thats honestly a good thing, both those guys play cancerous.

Durant, Kawhi, Lebron, Davis, and Curry are the legit cream of the crop scoring wise today.

I say Scottie could do 24 depending on the team makeup and his role. It's kind of pissing up a tree to put precise numbers because we don't know what team he'd be on and thus what his utility would be. But 22ppg in 2020 isn't even considered upper elite scoring, not when you have to go 28 guys down the ppg list to find someone doing under 20ppg. The 20ppg guy has become relatively dime a dozen. I just feel that we shouldn't apply these thick layers of subjectivity to who and who doesn't benefit from modern perimeter rules and pace. Scottie didn't have an elite halfcourt iso game but if guys today can practically moonwalk to the rim without handchecking, clogged lanes or rim protection I'm not sure how Scottie doesn't receive some benefit from that.

[Roundball_Rock]

We literally have another thread going right now about how MJ would score 45 today. So on the one hand MJ would go from 31-33 PPG to 45; Pippen would go from 22 to 20 PPG. This is laughable hypocrisy.

[1987_Lakers]

Ooooooh now you want to implement the eye test. Because the stats dont line up with your agenda. Come on bro. Like I stated earlier, something has gotta give. You cant have it both ways.

All this thread has done, is back you Pippen hater/Jordan agenda zealots into a corner. If stats are gonna be utilized, we have to apply context when using those stats. If style is gonna be utilized, again we have to apply context. Steph Curry and Mahmoud Abdul Rauf have the same playing style. Does that mean that Rauf is a 2 time MVP today?

Going back to Pippen, theres a reason he was so highly regarded when he played. Theres no doubt that Pippen would be a consistent 24/9/8 player with a peak of 26/10/9-10 in todays league and be the best wing defender in the game. That's why hes comparable to other greats. That's why ESPN put him at 21.

Like I said, it depends on the situation. I wouldn't argue too hard if you think he averages 23-24 points in the right situation, but 25-27 points on a decent team is pushing it, he would be in the same category as LeBron, AD, Kawhi, etc, who are all clearly better scorers than Pippen. It doesn't help that throughout his career he was a 32% 3 point shooter, which is below average. Most of the top scorers today make around 2 or 3 three pointers a game, which is pretty crazy to think about since not too long ago if you made 2 threes a game that was considered elite. Pippen doesn't have the jump shot to keep up with those guys and he isn't a scorer who is consistently going to create his own shots in the half court.

One player who would thrive in today's NBA would be Larry Bird, he would be excellent at PF, he would be an elite 3 point shooter but also big enough to grab rebounds, and we know his court vision is out of this world.

[Round Mound]

21-23 PPG on 48% FG, 8 RPG, 6.5 APG, 2 SPG & 1 BPG somwhere around there

[Reggie43]

Peak Pippen gets 25 easy on todays league. He has the skills to score more but playing the right way, focusing on defense and getting teammates involved has always been his priority.

[Roundball_Rock]

If he was 8th in scoring (3rd among perimeter players) as the #1 option in his prime in the 90's and he would barely be top 20 in scoring today what does that say? That clearly implies it is much tougher to score today than back then. For reference, here are scorers 15-20 today:

15. Pascal Siakam • TOR 23.6
16. Jayson Tatum • BOS 23.6
17. CJ McCollum • POR 22.5
18. DeMar DeRozan • SAS 22.2
19. Andrew Wiggins • TOT 21.8
20. Kemba Walker • BOS 21.2

In 1994:

15. Ron Harper • LAC 20.1
16. Clifford Robinson • POR 20.1
17. Reggie Miller* • IND 19.9
18. Jim Jackson • DAL 19.2
19. Jamal Mashburn • DAL 19.2
20. Kevin Willis • ATL 19.1

In 2008:

15. Tracy McGrady* • HOU 21.6
16. Antawn Jamison • WAS 21.4
17. Vince Carter • NJN 21.3
18. Carlos Boozer • UTA 21.1
19. Chris Paul • NOH 21.1
20. Al Jefferson • MIN 21.0

[Bronbron23]

he'd be like a (prime) andre iguodala today.

a guy like kawhi does what he does, but with much better shooting and scoring.

But kawhi enjoys the new rules and works on the three ball because of the era. Pip could be close to as good as a scorer in this era with these rules. They're both stiff and not fluid offensively. Pip was way more athletic in his prime also. He was also a better passer. I could easily see pip putting up 25-27 a game with 7 or 8 assists which would make him just as potent offensively.

[tpols]

But kawhi enjoys the new rules and works on the three ball because of the era. Pip could be close to as good as a scorer in this era with these rules. They're both stiff and not fluid offensively. Pip was way more athletic in his prime also. He was also a better passer. I could easily see pip putting up 25-27 a game with 7 or 8 assists which would make him just as potent offensively.

Kawhi is a damn near 50/40/90 shooter with ultimate midrange scoring arsenal. Never been an elite athlete as good as him at shooting. Besides MJ.

Pippen is absolutely nowhere near him as a scorer or offensive player.

Pippen is like a smaller version of giannis tbh. And we all saw the ECF's last year and how that went down.

There's no universe where pippen could ever match kawhi's shooting just because it's a "3 point era". Scottie couldnt shoot how kawhi does from anywhere, much less 25 feet.

[Bronbron23]

Kawhi is a damn near 50/40/90 shooter with ultimate midrange scoring arsenal. Never been an elite athlete as good as him at shooting. Besides MJ.

Pippen is absolutely nowhere near him as a scorer or offensive player.

Pippen is like a smaller version of giannis tbh. And we all saw the ECF's last year and how that went down.

There's no universe where pippen could ever match kawhi's shooting just because it's a "3 point era". Scottie couldnt shoot how kawhi does from anywhere, much less 25 feet.

I agree hed never be as great a shooter but he could easily get to the hole and be better in the post in this era. Theres way less traffic and help to have to deal with. Kawhi is slow as hell and extremely stiff. He benefits heavily from this era. Drop kawhi in the 90's and no way hes scoring the way he does.

And i like kawhi. Him, bron and greek are my favorite players right now.

[Whoah10115]

Not everyone takes the stat boosts across the board.
.
Scottie had a cool looking jumper, but wasn't a good jumpshooter, and he did shoot. And he's not a player who looks to score.

That said, if you put him on those Suns teams? He'd score more than Marion. But Scottie wanted to play point guard in the NBA. He was tall and had Michael in the backcourt, then as he stared to became a terrific player Jackson took over and installed the Triangle.

If Simmons is playing PG, maybe Pippen would. I don't know. He does have LeBron's end to end game, so maybe he'd get up to 24. This is assuming the same conditions, like playing on a great team with the best player. You put him on a poor team it's different. A middling team? Maybe doesn't change much.

[Roundball_Rock]

It is interesting because Pippen and Hill scored the same in the same era in the same point forward role. In the Hill thread people are saying Hill would put up LeBron numbers today; here we are generally hearing Pippen would be the same or even worse.

In yet another thread we are hearing MJ would score 45 today.

Reach your own conclusions as to the discrepancy.

[Soundwave]

It is interesting because Pippen and Hill scored the same in the same era in the same point forward role. In the Hill thread people are saying Hill would put up LeBron numbers today; here we are generally hearing Pippen would be the same or even worse.

In yet another thread we are hearing MJ would score 45 today.

Reach your own conclusions as to the discrepancy.

Grant Hill had the 26 ppg season though, I think the difference there is that showed he was capable of elevating offensively. Given his age he probably would've had a few more years in that range had he not gotten hurt.

[Roundball_Rock]

Grant Hill had the 26 ppg season though, I think the difference there is that showed he was capable of elevating offensively. Given his age he probably would've had a few more years in that range had he not gotten hurt.

Hill's PPG: 20, 20, 21, 21, 21, 26 (2000).

So he was 20-21 other than that one year. What we have heard with Pippen many times is because he scored 22 PPG during 1 3/4 years as a first option ergo he would forever score exactly 22 if he had a full prime as the first option (except apparently in the 2010's where he would go down to 20).

Remember, we hear from certain people Hill>Pippen in the 90's so you can't use that 2000 season. In the 90's he was Pippen without the defense.

It is just bad faith. Only with Pippen do we see these gymnastics.

[r0drig0lac]

23-26/7-8/7-8

[97 bulls]

Hill's PPG: 20, 20, 21, 21, 21, 26 (2000).

So he was 20-21 other than that one year. What we have heard with Pippen many times is because he scored 22 PPG during 1 3/4 years as a first option ergo he would forever score exactly 22 if he had a full prime as the first option (except apparently in the 2010's where he would go down to 20).

Remember, we hear from certain people Hill>Pippen in the 90's so you can't use that 2000 season. In the 90's he was Pippen without the defense.

It is just bad faith. Only with Pippen do we see these gymnastics.

These guys have basically been exposed. Theres no way they can say Pippens numbers say the same with more opportunities.

These arguments are a joke.

[3ball]

It is interesting because Pippen and Hill scored the same in the same era in the same point forward role. In the Hill thread people are saying Hill would put up LeBron numbers today; here we are generally hearing Pippen would be the same or even worse.

In yet another thread we are hearing MJ would score 45 today.

Reach your own conclusions as to the discrepancy.

Pippen would not be a top assist guy in today's game .. STOP IT.. He wasn't back then (5 apg) and he wouldn't now

[Roundball_Rock]

These guys have basically been exposed. Theres no way they can say Pippens numbers say the same with more opportunities.

These arguments are a joke.

Yup. Hill would go from 22/8/6 to LeBron numbers; Pippen would go from 20/8/6 to being Iggy. Meanwhile MJ would go from 31-33 PPG to 45 PPG. They are all over the place.

I am not aware of any other 90's player who they say would be worse statistically today. It always is how much more they would do in this "weak" defensive era. Except Pippen would do worse in a supposedly much weaker defensive era. :oldlol:

[RRR3]

Be careful overrating Scottie right there, Lebron averaged 27-7-7 throughout his career playing 'in this era'. Scottie is a poor man's Lebron.
LeBron is old. Peak Bron would be averaging like 35/10/10 now.

[Whoah10115]

LeBron is old. Peak Bron would be averaging like 35/10/10 now.

Doubt that. LeBron is hardly old. His athleticism is still ridiculous, and he's not out of his prime.

He's improved in many ways. If he puts up those numbers the Lakers are worse.