How do USA performance factor in the MJ vs Lebron GOAT debate?

[PeroAntic]

Lets recap. Jordan led the US basketball team to victory in the 1984 Olympics as a youngster. And then led the Dream Team in 1992 again at his peak.

Lebron as a youngster on the other hand, failed twice, in 2004 and 2006 (despite having a stacked team compared to the 1984 amateurs).

However, then he won two more Olympics (2008 and 2012) and a World Championship in 2007, with the WC giving him the edge over Jordan in terms of medals.

In terms of individual performances, Jordan was outscored by Barkley in 1992, and Lebron was outscored by Melo in 2007, Wade in 2008, KD in 2012. If leadership is factored in, the consensus is that Kobe was the leader in both Olympics. Lebron was the leader in 2007 however.

So who had the better USA performance? and what difference does it make in the ATG ranking? For me its still Jordan that had the edge, and it separates him even further from Lebron in the GOAT race.

[scuzzy]

International competition was another great way to gauge Jordans fierce competition, here's Michaels' 84 gold medal opponent




https://i.postimg.cc/GtBprXXX/Spain-Team84.jpg




Literal college kids, 90% roster under 205lbs :lol


92 Barcelona wasn't any better with a whopping 3 total international NBA players combine worldwide, 2 of which Schrempf and Kukoc.


In comparison to 2008




https://i.postimg.cc/N0gjWyhH/fgjytruj.png (https://postimages.org/)






Same rules, same coach, same roster, same system - baby Lebron and Wade outplaying prime Kobe per tradition all tournament

LBJ nearly doubling him in every statistical category, including points on far less shots. To no surprise


https://i.postimg.cc/DwQzjrNh/ftgjfdtjtjh.png (https://postimages.org/)

[RRR3]

I immediately stop listening to posters when they blame LeBron for the 2004 Olympics. It’s like blaming Shaun Livingston for 2016.

[scuzzy]

I immediately stop listening to posters when they blame LeBron for the 2004 Olympics. It’s like blaming Shaun Livingston for 2016.
18-19yo Lebron making Team USA vs pros

at 18-19yo Jordan wasn't even All-American in NCAA

[Roundball_Rock]

It should be considered. The problem is LeBron's poor performances came as a kid. Moreover, international competition was a lot tougher in the 21st century than 1984 or 1992. You or I could have been on the 84' and 92' teams and they still would have won. :lol

FWIW Chuck Daly (the DT coach) said Pippen was the best player on the Dream Team:


“I know Michael's the best player, but Pippen was the best player on that team.”


I immediately stop listening to posters when they blame LeBron for the 2004 Olympics. It’s like blaming Shaun Livingston for 2016.

Meanwhile Duncan, the best player and leader of the team, never gets blamed for it. #Agendas :lol

[RRR3]

It should be considered. The problem is LeBron's poor performances came as a kid. Moreover, international competition was a lot tougher in the 21st century than 1984 or 1992. You or I could have been on the 84' and 92' teams and they still would have won. :lol

FWIW Chuck Daly (the DT coach) said Pippen was the best player on the Dream Team:




Meanwhile Duncan, the best player and leader of the team, never gets blamed for it. #Agendas :lol
Duncan isn’t a threat to MJ and isn’t perceived as a threat to Kobe. LeBron is perceived as a threat to MJ and is obviously better than Kobe. There’s your answer.

[scuzzy]

92 Team Lithuania

https://i.postimg.cc/BbcmXw6b/lietuvos-krepsinio-rinktine-barselonos-olimpinese-zaidynese-4fcf3acc629d5-1.jpg (https://postimages.org/)



https://i.postimg.cc/v8WqqDzy/lk7efyn3kz641.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[Docs Orders]

The fact 18yo Lebron, Wade and Melo made the 2004 USA Team vindicates how poor the overall NBA talent was between 1995-2004


They were literally scouting rookies to fill their thin roster

[Roundball_Rock]

Duncan isn’t a threat to MJ and isn’t perceived as a threat to Kobe. LeBron is perceived as a threat to MJ and is obviously better than Kobe. There’s your answer.

:oldlol: yup.

[tpols]

Everytime Lebron stepped on the court he was hunted by international teams... who had less talent but better teamwork.

Kobe had to come back in 2008 to reverse the shame bran had brought on the country.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhpVE5Yfvhc

[999Guy]

Jordan didn’t even have a dominant 92 run relatively speaking. He took a bitchload of shots though.

[PeroAntic]

Duncan isn’t a threat to MJ and isn’t perceived as a threat to Kobe. LeBron is perceived as a threat to MJ and is obviously better than Kobe. There’s your answer.

No Duncan fan claims he is above Jordan in the ranking. :confusedshrug: if Lebron was the chosen one, he was supposed to do better than he did in 2004 and 2006 imo.

[PeroAntic]

92 Team Lithuania

https://i.postimg.cc/BbcmXw6b/lietuvos-krepsinio-rinktine-barselonos-olimpinese-zaidynese-4fcf3acc629d5-1.jpg (https://postimages.org/)



https://i.postimg.cc/v8WqqDzy/lk7efyn3kz641.jpg (https://postimages.org/)
Lithuania in 1992 were led by Sabonis and Marculionis who were as good as it gets at the time. Anyone mocking that team is an idiot, but youre a Bran stan so thats beyond question.

As for Croatia, on top of Kukoc they had Drazen and Radja who were great players in the NBA.

[RRR3]

No Duncan fan claims he is above Jordan in the ranking. :confusedshrug: if Lebron was the chosen one, he was supposed to do better than he did in 2004 and 2006 imo.
He was supposed to influence the game playing 10 MPG after his rookie season?

Is LeBron literally god?

[Roundball_Rock]

He was supposed to influence the game playing 10 MPG after his rookie season?

Is LeBron literally god?

It sounds like he considers LeBron GOAT. LeBron at 19 years old>peak Duncan because LeBron is GOAT.

[SouBeachTalents]

Only an idiot would factor this into the discussion. Melo has 3 gold medals, doesn't mean shit

[Turbo Slayer]

Why the hell anyone consider Olympics a factor when considering rankings? Shit makes no sense. Tf?

[RRR3]

Lithuania in 1992 were led by Sabonis and Marculionis who were as good as it gets at the time. Anyone mocking that team is an idiot, but youre a Bran stan so thats beyond question.

As for Croatia, on top of Kukoc they had Drazen and Radja who were great players in the NBA.
Dino Radja was “great” in the NBA? By what standard? :oldlol:

I’m not saying dude wasn’t good, but “great”? Jesus.

[dazzer87]

How sad, being part of the only NBA team to never win Gold...:facepalm

[Euroleague]

Lets recap. Jordan led the US basketball team to victory in the 1984 Olympics as a youngster. And then led the Dream Team in 1992 again at his peak.

Lebron as a youngster on the other hand, failed twice, in 2004 and 2006 (despite having a stacked team compared to the 1984 amateurs).

However, then he won two more Olympics (2008 and 2012) and a World Championship in 2007, with the WC giving him the edge over Jordan in terms of medals.

In terms of individual performances, Jordan was outscored by Barkley in 1992, and Lebron was outscored by Melo in 2007, Wade in 2008, KD in 2012. If leadership is factored in, the consensus is that Kobe was the leader in both Olympics. Lebron was the leader in 2007 however.

So who had the better USA performance? and what difference does it make in the ATG ranking? For me its still Jordan that had the edge, and it separates him even further from Lebron in the GOAT race.

LeBron never won a FIBA World Cup. He had a bronze in 2006. That was it.

[Euroleague]

International competition was another great way to gauge Jordans fierce competition, here's Michaels' 84 gold medal opponent

https://i.postimg.cc/GtBprXXX/Spain-Team84.jpg


It's definitely weaker than the best international teams of today, but still, that 1984 Spanish team had some very good players on it.

Juan Antonio Corbalan
Andres Jimenez
Fernando Martin
Fernando Romay
Epi

That's a team that would have easily won the NCAA championship. Definitely weaker than the best national teams from early 2000s to now though. Still, not an easy opponent for college players.

[Euroleague]

Lithuania in 1992 were led by Sabonis and Marculionis who were as good as it gets at the time. Anyone mocking that team is an idiot, but youre a Bran stan so thats beyond question.

As for Croatia, on top of Kukoc they had Drazen and Radja who were great players in the NBA.

1992 Lithuania had,

Arvydas Sabonis
Sarunas Marciulionis
Valdemaras Chomicius
Arturus Karnisovas
Rimas Kurtinaitis

5 very good players. But not much depth beyond that. Today's best European national teams are way deeper. 1992 Lithuania would have beaten a team of NCAA all-stars, but they couldn't beat teams of NBA players, like the best European national teams of the last 15-18 years could. Comparatively speaking, that's weak competition for sure, as compared to The Dream team.

1984 Spain, versus NCAA all stars, was a much closer comparison, talent-wise.

Juan Antonio Corbalan
Andres Jimenez
Fernando Martin
Fernando Romay
Epi
Nacho Solozbal
Juan Domingo de la Cruz

6 of the best European players of early 1980s, versus an NCAA all star team, during peak era of NCAA competition. That's much closer together than Dream team versus 5 top Lithuanian players from early 90s.

[Euroleague]

How sad, being part of the only NBA team to never win Gold...:facepalm

Team USA's NBA teams didn't win gold at the following world tournaments:

Summer Olympics

2004

FIBA World Cup

2002

2006

2019


What do you mean the only NBA team to not win a gold? They didn't win in 2002, 2006, and 2019 either.

[Lebron23]

LeBron won the Gold Medal at the 2007 fiba americas. I remembered him scoring 31 points vs. Argentina

[Duncan21formvp]

Lets recap. Jordan led the US basketball team to victory in the 1984 Olympics as a youngster. And then led the Dream Team in 1992 again at his peak.

Lebron as a youngster on the other hand, failed twice, in 2004 and 2006 (despite having a stacked team compared to the 1984 amateurs).

However, then he won two more Olympics (2008 and 2012) and a World Championship in 2007, with the WC giving him the edge over Jordan in terms of medals.

In terms of individual performances, Jordan was outscored by Barkley in 1992, and Lebron was outscored by Melo in 2007, Wade in 2008, KD in 2012. If leadership is factored in, the consensus is that Kobe was the leader in both Olympics. Lebron was the leader in 2007 however.

So who had the better USA performance? and what difference does it make in the ATG ranking? For me its still Jordan that had the edge, and it separates him even further from Lebron in the GOAT race.
It is major, we lost in 2004 because of Lebron opening his mouth.

[Duncan21formvp]

How sad, being part of the only NBA team to never win Gold...:facepalm

Agreed! And him opening his mouth is why USA lost in 2004 especially after getting outplayed by Carlos Arroyo.

[SATAN]

No one except boomers actually gives a shit about the Olympics.

[Euroleague]

LeBron won the Gold Medal at the 2007 fiba americas. I remembered him scoring 31 points vs. Argentina

Yeah, but that tournament is virtually meaningless, as far as judging best player careers. Other than EuroBasket, World Cup, and Olympics, all of the international basketball tournaments are complete jokes in terms of the level of competition. And the Summer Olympics, is a fairly weak competition level also.