If Shaq wins a 4th ring and FMVP in 04...

[FultzNationRISE]

And assuming he wins one more chip after that, totaling five, whether he stays with the Lakers or still moves on to the Heat...

Does it change anything?

He’s a top 8 player already so there’s obviously limited room to move up. But what if the Lakers had won 4 in 5 years? Shaq was easily the most unstoppable player in the 04 finals, he just happened to be playing alongside the most stoppable player. He was a lock to win FMVP if the Lakers get the title.

People say shit like “Shaq beat weak/washed up bigs in the finals” and completely omit the fact that he rag dolled a prime DPOY Ben Wallace and did everything within his control to win that series. A win in 04 completely changes the narrative and gives Shaq the same amount of titles as Duncan, with one more FMVP. (Again, assuming Shaq still wins the 06 chip as well).

Would this have any tangible impact on the way the Diesel’s career is regarded? Or is a difference of one ring not enough to move Top 10 players around in and of itself?

What do you think?

How badly did the Brick Job of ‘04 ultimately hurt Shaq’s resumé?

[TommyGriffin]

OP's posts reek of inadequacy and overcompensation.

[FultzNationRISE]

OP's posts reek of inadequacy and overcompensation.


Location: Temecula

[Rico2016]

Brick hurt Shaq's legacy big time. With that 2004 FMVP Shaq is cemented top 5 everywhere instead of fringe top 10 on some lists. Shaq did not have a great Finals win, 2001 DPOY Mutombo was perhaps his best, but that 76ers team was a mess. I think Shaq winning in 2004 (and still winning in 2006 and then not team hopping, 4 teams in 5 years (Heat, Suns, Cavs, Celtics) cements him into the top 3. Brick really did stop the Diesel. The only one that could do it.

[Soundwave]

Shaq is the second best actual player of the last 40 years after Jordan. There's no one else as dominant as he was in his peak.

Kids are just fu*king stupid, same thing will happen in 10 years, the kids then won't respect LeBron or Durant and who ever is the new top player will be compared to Jordan.

[FultzNationRISE]

Shaq is the second best actual player of the last 20 years after Jordan. There's no one else as dominant as he was in his peak.


The second best of the last 20 years/since Jordan?

I agree.


1. Lebron
2. Shaq

[Soundwave]

The second best of the last 20 years/since Jordan?

I agree.


1. Lebron
2. Shaq

I take prime Shaq over any version of LeBron. Give him Wade and Bosh at age 25/26 and the Heat win 3-4 titles, not 2. They threepeat most likely right off the hop and then maybe you can get lucky and beat him in the 4th year based on fatigue, but you're praying for a minor miracle.

He'd also be facing 36/37/38 year old Duncan, not prime Duncan, he'd eat him alive like BBQ chicken (as Shaq likes to say) if he got to play him under those circumstances.

[FultzNationRISE]

I take prime Shaq over any version of LeBron. Give him Wade and Bosh at age 25/26 and the Heat win 3-4 titles, not 2. They threepeat most likely right off the hop and then maybe you can get lucky and beat him in the 4th year based on fatigue, but you're praying for a minor miracle.

He'd also be facing 36/37/38 year old Duncan, not prime Duncan, he'd eat him alive like BBQ chicken (as Shaq likes to say) if he got to play him under those circumstances.


You said the last 20 years tho. Shaq was basically irrelevant after ‘06, so a hypothetical about him being in his prime during Lebron’s Heat run is immaterial. He was retired at that point. Just like Lebron racking up chips in the 90s vs Hornacek and Craig Ehlo would be irrelevant to a comparison of the last 20 years.

So while I agree Shaq was still dominant enough from 00-06 to be considered the second best player of the last 20 years... Theres no way I can put him above LeLongevity for the same time period.

[999Guy]

I take prime Shaq over any version of LeBron. Give him Wade and Bosh at age 25/26 and the Heat win 3-4 titles, not 2. They threepeat most likely right off the hop and then maybe you can get lucky and beat him in the 4th year based on fatigue, but you're praying for a minor miracle.

He'd also be facing 36/37/38 year old Duncan, not prime Duncan, he'd eat him alive like BBQ chicken (as Shaq likes to say) if he got to play him under those circumstances.
Nobody in the history of the league is winning that 2014 finals series in place of LeBron. Pop figured them out after game 3 and they started moving the ball intentionally even more than usual because Miami was old and finished and they knew it.

Shaq is doing NOTHING to stop that offensive onslaught. Not one thing.

And LeBron has a Shaq-seque series anyway. High-gravity super efficient offensive series. They got smoked out anyway.

The Spurs had the best defense in 2014. Tiago Splitter/Kawhi/Manu/Duncan/Green destroyed teams defensively and their worst defenders like Mills, Parker, and Diaw were smart and above average.

San Antonio was way better than Miami the entire season even with LeBron having a ridiculous year that took Durant getting a bunch of PPG to prevent another MVP.

People still just can’t seem to understand how good San Antonio was in that time period. They made fringe contenders like Portland look like lottery competition and dominated prime KD/WB’s thunder. Probably the best iteration of OKC.

[Axe]

If shaq has five rings overall, he won't be jealous about tim duncan having the same number of rings, as well as he wouldn't have said that his first chip in '99 has an asterisk.

[red1]

I would have no problem ranking him over baldan in that case.



Im already considering knocking baldan out of my top 5.

[Overdrive]

Lack of MVPs hurt his legacy way more than losing 04.
If he had 3 or 4 of them he would get mentioned next to Jordan, Lebron, etc by the media. Even if not a single event in his career didn't change besides that.

[Phoenix]

The one MVP award is crazy but when Steve Nash has as many as Shaq and Hakeem combined, I'm going to leave that as storylines and narrative partly drive that award too often to hold that against him. 4 rings, 4 fmvps, and a top 3 dominant peak should cement him into a top 3 spot or at worst top 4. He's top 5 in my book but he ends up somewhere between 7 and 10 on a lot of these lists. #10 on this most recent BSPN one, which is laughable.

I think Shaqs multiple unceromonious eliminations in the playoffs are his biggest legacy hurdle.

[Soundwave]

Nobody in the history of the league is winning that 2014 finals series in place of LeBron. Pop figured them out after game 3 and they started moving the ball intentionally even more than usual because Miami was old and finished and they knew it.

Shaq is doing NOTHING to stop that offensive onslaught. Not one thing.

And LeBron has a Shaq-seque series anyway. High-gravity super efficient offensive series. They got smoked out anyway.

The Spurs had the best defense in 2014. Tiago Splitter/Kawhi/Manu/Duncan/Green destroyed teams defensively and their worst defenders like Mills, Parker, and Diaw were smart and above average.

San Antonio was way better than Miami the entire season even with LeBron having a ridiculous year that took Durant getting a bunch of PPG to prevent another MVP.

People still just can’t seem to understand how good San Antonio was in that time period. They made fringe contenders like Portland look like lottery competition and dominated prime KD/WB’s thunder. Probably the best iteration of OKC.

Kawhi Leonard gonna guard Shaquille O' Neal? I don't think so. Tim Duncan was 37 years old, a 25/26 year old Shaq would eat him alive.

The Heat would win 3 or 4 titles without much fuss at that with Shaq there instead of LeBron. He is a more unstoppable player at the peak of his career.

[Overdrive]

The one MVP award is crazy but when Steve Nash has as many as Shaq and Hakeem combined, I'm going to leave that as storylines and narrative partly drive that award too often to hold that against him. 4 rings, 4 fmvps, and a top 3 dominant peak should cement him into a top 3 spot or at worst top 4. He's top 5 in my book but he ends up somewhere between 7 and 10 on a lot of these lists. #10 on this most recent BSPN one, which is laughable.

I think Shaqs multiple unceromonious eliminations in the playoffs are his biggest legacy hurdle.

Of course it's narrative driven. Shaq brought almost as many wins to the Heat as Nash. He had the better stats, but the gave it to Nash for story reasons.

The problem is that most AT list voters look at a combination of Rings, MVPs and maybe some stats. They don't even consider level of play or some not so good playoff exits.

[RogueBorg]

Hard to believe Shaq was a rookie almost 30 years ago.

The Shaq-Ewing-Olajuwon-Robinson-Mourning battles were amazing.

[Lebron23]

Shaq could have been a 4x mvp. 1995, 2001 and 2005.

[Axe]

Hard to believe Shaq was a rookie almost 30 years ago.

The Shaq-Ewing-Olajuwon-Robinson-Mourning battles were amazing.
And there were some occasions in the court where he finally had to snap it. The feud with barkley, for instance.

[Rico2016]

The one MVP award is crazy but when Steve Nash has as many as Shaq and Hakeem combined, I'm going to leave that as storylines and narrative partly drive that award too often to hold that against him. 4 rings, 4 fmvps, and a top 3 dominant peak should cement him into a top 3 spot or at worst top 4. He's top 5 in my book but he ends up somewhere between 7 and 10 on a lot of these lists. #10 on this most recent BSPN one, which is laughable.

I think Shaqs multiple unceromonious eliminations in the playoffs are his biggest legacy hurdle.

The MVP award criteria is pretty simple though. Which year do you feel Shaq should have won another?

[HBK_Kliq_2]

He wasn't really close to winning the finals, lakers were a mess by that point because the Shaq\Kobe drama. Phil Jackson even wrote a book about the 2004 season, that's how much drama there was. I think the main reason they advanced past spurs was because old Karl Malone shut down Tim Duncan when he was switched on to him. Otherwise, I see Spurs eliminating Lakers again like the previous year.

[Duncan21formvp]

When it is 4-1 it is not close to winning.