Joakim Noah finished 4th in mvp voting in 2014

[Lebron23]

He also win the nba defensive player of the year. He averaged 13/12/5/1.5/1.5. led the Bulls to 48 wins with an injured Derrick Rose.

[Duncan21formvp]

Goes to show how weak the 2010's era has been.

[Lebron23]

Goes to show how weak the 2010's era has been.

Narrative. Noah wins a dpoy while duncan had none.

[j3lademaster]

Narrative. Noah wins a dpoy while duncan had none.As a Bull’s fan, I do love me some Joakim but Duncan has 4-5 seasons where he was a superior defender than dpoy Noah and dpoy Marc Gasol.

[Lebron23]

As a Bull’s fan, I do love me some Joakim but Duncan has 4-5 seasons where he was a superior defender than dpoy Noah and dpoy Marc Gasol.

Duncan ain't going to win it over garnett, mutombo and ben wallace.

[SouBeachTalents]

Jermaine O'Neal finished 3rd in '04, with Peja coming in 4th

[j3lademaster]

Duncan ain't going to win it over garnett, mutombo and ben wallace.mutombo was to old at that point if I recall. Ben Wallace had a ~3 season stretch where he was just a monster, was definitely better than Duncan for that stretch. Garnett is close, but Duncan def had a few seasons that were better.

[Roundball_Rock]

The Bulls were set up well with a core of Rose, Butler, Noah, Deng, Boozer, and Korver. I think the Bulls would have won 1-2 championships with that core. So several talented players plus an elite defense with a good coach.

Of course we know what happened. :cry:

One note on the 48 wins, that was the year Rose played 10 games. The previous year they went 45-37 which was the first post-Rose year and where Rose missed the entire season.

[SouBeachTalents]

The Bulls were set up well with a core of Rose, Butler, Noah, Deng, Boozer, and Korver. I think the Bulls would have won 1-2 championships with that core. So several talented players plus an elite defense with a good coach.

Of course we know what happened. :cry:

One note on the 48 wins, that was the year Rose played 10 games. The previous year they went 45-37 which was the first post-Rose year and where Rose missed the entire season.
You think they would've beaten the Heat at any point?

[Roundball_Rock]

You think they would've beaten the Heat at any point?

I think so. The Heat had trouble with the Pacers and Celtics in 2012. The Bulls were a much better team than either. Then in 2014 the Heat were on fumes while Rose would 26 and nearing his peak. That was Butler's first year as a starter too. So I think they would beat the Heat in 14' too. Then you get to 15' and the Bulls got Rose back for the first time and Butler became an all-star. They upgraded from Boozer to Gasol. The Bulls were a LeBron shot away from a 3-1 lead in the ECSF. I think if you have prime Rose they win and go to the finals. Once you get deeper in time it is harder to assess because of roster changes and injuries (Noah wasn't Noah after injuries too, etc.). 2016 was the best LeBron Cavs team so you would think they would beat the Bulls.

So that's three finals trips with the same core (if the Bulls are doing this I doubt Deng leaves for Miami). The question becomes do they cash in?

Of course I am biased but what I sketched out is not implausible. What do you think as a Heat fan? The one time the two teams met the Heat won easily but that was the Bulls' first real run. No one makes the finals without meaningful playoff experience, unless you are a special case like the Big 3 Celtics.

[SouBeachTalents]

I think so. The Heat had trouble with the Pacers and Celtics in 2012. The Bulls were a much better team than either. Then in 2014 the Heat were on fumes while Rose would 26 and nearing his peak. That was Butler's first year as a starter too. So I think they would beat the Heat in 14' too. Then you get to 15' and the Bulls got Rose back for the first time and Butler became an all-star. They upgraded from Boozer to Gasol. The Bulls were a LeBron shot away from a 3-1 lead in the ECSF. I think if you have prime Rose they win and go to the finals. Once you get deeper in time it is harder to assess because of roster changes and injuries (Noah wasn't Noah after injuries too, etc.). 2016 was the best LeBron Cavs team so you would think they would beat the Bulls.

So that's three finals trips with the same core (if the Bulls are doing this I doubt Deng leaves for Miami). The question becomes do they cash in?

Of course I am biased but what I sketched out is not implausible. What do you think as a Heat fan? The one time the two teams met the Heat won easily but that was the Bulls' first real run. No one makes the finals without meaningful playoff experience, unless you are a special case like the Big 3 Celtics.
That's really had to say. First thing though that 2011 series was a lot closer than it appeared. Game 2 was close most of the way, Game 4 went into OT, and then the Bulls had a huge lead at the end of Game 5 that they gave away, so they really should've at least taken the Heat to 6 that first year together.

The Bosh injury in 2012 throws a wrench into things, once he went down the Heat obviously looked much more vulnerable, needing 6 & 7 games just to get to the Finals. It also doesn't help Wade struggled immensely against the Bulls the year before, and had taken a step back that season too. Gun to my head, I would still pick Miami in 2012. I don't think the Bulls even with a healthy Rose would have had the horses to keep up with LeBron's scoring prowess, who even though he couldn't make an outside shot was still pouring in big scoring games almost nightly.

2013 is when the Heat really began to look vulnerable, Wade was an absolute shell of himself most of those playoffs, and that was (for his standards) one of LeBron's weaker playoff runs. Considering the Pacers took them to 7, the Bulls with a healthy Rose would've definitely been a fairly significant threat. That's one I think would probably go the distance, but I'd still go with Miami to win the series.

If the Bulls are at full strength by 2014, the Heat were just waiting to get picked off by that point, that would've been Chicago's year to finally take claim of the conference and slay their nemesis, like they did to the Pistons in '91.

Truth be told, I'm not quite as high on those Bulls teams as you. They would've definitely been a legit contender if everyone had stayed healthy, but there's really no season I would be confident in them taking out both LeBron AND the Western winner in the Finals.

[Roundball_Rock]

That's really had to say. First thing though that 2011 series was a lot closer than it appeared. Game 2 was close most of the way, Game 4 went into OT, and then the Bulls had a huge lead at the end of Game 5 that they gave away, so they really should've at least taken the Heat to 6 that first year together.

The Bosh injury in 2012 throws a wrench into things, once he went down the Heat obviously looked much more vulnerable, needing 6 & 7 games just to get to the Finals. It also doesn't help Wade struggled immensely against the Bulls the year before, and had taken a step back that season too. Gun to my head, I would still pick Miami in 2012. I don't think the Bulls even with a healthy Rose would have had the horses to keep up with LeBron's scoring prowess, who even though he couldn't make an outside shot was still pouring in big scoring games almost nightly.

2013 is when the Heat really began to look vulnerable, Wade was an absolute shell of himself most of those playoffs, and that was (for his standards) one of LeBron's weaker playoff runs. Considering the Pacers took them to 7, the Bulls with a healthy Rose would've definitely been a fairly significant threat. That's one I think would probably go the distance, but I'd still go with Miami to win the series.

If the Bulls are at full strength by 2014, the Heat were just waiting to get picked off by that point, that would've been Chicago's year to finally take claim of the conference and slay their nemesis, like they did to the Pistons in '91.

Truth be told, I'm not quite as high on those Bulls teams as you. They would've definitely been a legit contender if everyone had stayed healthy, but there's really no season I would be confident in them taking out both LeBron AND the Western winner in the Finals.

All good points and plausible scenarios as well.

Yeah that is why I think they would win 1-2 rings. Whether it is 1 or 2 would depend on how they fared against the WC champ but 0 rings and even 0 finals trips is within the range of outcomes too.

Another wild card is if what I say is correct and Miami loses Riley would make a move to try to improve the Heat. I don't think Riley would lose in the ECF and stand pat (no pun intended). The Heat would always have the inherent built-in advantage of having the best player so even if they got surpassed they would always be 1 move away from taking back the lead.

It just sucks that Rose went down. It was one of those "where were you when..." moments for me that always stays with you.

[Duncan21formvp]

I think so. The Heat had trouble with the Pacers and Celtics in 2012. The Bulls were a much better team than either. Then in 2014 the Heat were on fumes while Rose would 26 and nearing his peak. That was Butler's first year as a starter too. So I think they would beat the Heat in 14' too. Then you get to 15' and the Bulls got Rose back for the first time and Butler became an all-star. They upgraded from Boozer to Gasol. The Bulls were a LeBron shot away from a 3-1 lead in the ECSF. I think if you have prime Rose they win and go to the finals. Once you get deeper in time it is harder to assess because of roster changes and injuries (Noah wasn't Noah after injuries too, etc.). 2016 was the best LeBron Cavs team so you would think they would beat the Bulls.

So that's three finals trips with the same core (if the Bulls are doing this I doubt Deng leaves for Miami). The question becomes do they cash in?

Of course I am biased but what I sketched out is not implausible. What do you think as a Heat fan? The one time the two teams met the Heat won easily but that was the Bulls' first real run. No one makes the finals without meaningful playoff experience, unless you are a special case like the Big 3 Celtics.

2012 Bulls beat Heat they were prepared for it had the ACL injury not happened.