Scottie Pippen or Isiah Thomas

[iamgine]

You can have a prime version for 6 seasons in the 80s/90s. Who'd you take to build around?

[aceman]

You can have a prime version for 6 seasons in the 80s/90s. Who'd you take to build around?

Pippen. Also a quality point guard but a more versatile scoring option particularly in post. A unique & special weapon on defense

[BigShotBob]

Zeke easily. Proven winner without the GOAT.

[iamgine]

I thought they were quite equal in terms of impact. Those Detroit teams with prime Pippen would be quite beastly.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Pippen is clearly a better player overall. Pippen is goat level on defense and can be a 20 PPG scorer. Thomas is not anywhere close to a goat level offensive player and an average defender. Scottie should be around 15-25 GOAT and Isaiah around top 40-50

Longevity wise, Pippen was still in a west finals game 7 and multiple 50 win teams with blazers in his 30s.

Thomas on the other hand was swept by bulls in 1991 and never to be heard from again. And that was in his 20s!

Better prime/peak: Pippen
Better career: Pippen

[Axe]

Is it safe to say that isiah thomas has one fmvp over pippen?

Just kidding.

[Lion's pride]

there is a strong argument that can be made that IT is at or near GOAT level of PGs. and was an all time takeover crunch time player. But having said all of that, I value the versatility and multiple positions SP can play and defend more than IT..

So Pippen for me..

[999Guy]

there is a strong argument that can be made that IT is at or near GOAT level of PGs. and was an all time takeover crunch time player. But having said all of that, I value the versatility and multiple positions SP can play and defend more than IT..

So Pippen for me..
LMAO, make the case for any of that. Especially him being an all-time takeover player wtf?

He was a below average volume creator on offense. Essentially Jason Kidd level.

[Lion's pride]

LMAO, make the case for any of that. Especially him being an all-time takeover player wtf?

He was a below average volume creator on offense. Essentially Jason Kidd level.

did you just say Isiah was a "Below average volume creator"? Have you actually watched IT at all??

[Lion's pride]

Just one of many unbelievable IT moments.

16 points in 90 seconds.. are you Freakin kidding me..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AWVRdpRr7g

[999Guy]

did you just say Isiah was a "Below average volume creator"? Have you actually watched IT at all??Below average efficiency volume creator. Volume isn’t easy so to say he was below average is wrong.

IT would definitely give you a medium volume game on Draymond efficiency. I’ll give him that.

Hell thats another player he has no case over if we are talking primes.

But look, how in the hell is Thomas an all-time crunch time guy? What the hell criteria would make that true?

And HOW the **** would he be goat level at PG?

[Lion's pride]

Below average efficiency volume creator. Volume isn’t easy so to say he was below average is wrong.

IT would definitely give you a medium volume game on Draymond efficiency. I’ll give him that.

Hell thats another player he has no case over if we are talking primes.

But look, how in the hell is Thomas an all-time crunch time guy? What the hell criteria would make that true?

And HOW the **** would he be goat level at PG?

if it wasn't for Magic, IT was considered the best PG for a long time and commonly considered the best 6'2 and under player till the 2000s by many... I thinking you wasn't old enough during the 80s to have witnessed what he has done..

[aceman]

Below average efficiency volume creator. Volume isn’t easy so to say he was below average is wrong.

IT would definitely give you a medium volume game on Draymond efficiency. I’ll give him that.

Hell thats another player he has no case over if we are talking primes.

But look, how in the hell is Thomas an all-time crunch time guy? What the hell criteria would make that true?

And HOW the **** would he be goat level at PG?

I don't understand any terms here

[999Guy]

if it wasn't for Magic, IT was considered the best PG for a long time and commonly considered the best 6'2 and under player till the 2000s by many... I thinking you wasn't old enough during the 80s to have witnessed what he has done..
Please if anything having Magic around propped his career up. He would’ve been as forgotten as Walt Frazier who was a better point guard and has more of the accolades that overrates players.

Magic blowing his hammy out and Bird getting bone spurs put him in a different level of perception than he ever should’ve gotten. Playing the baby Bulls was icing on the cake.

[LostCause]

I wouldn't say it's "easy" either way but I'd go with Pippen. More impactful overall and easier to build with

[Da_Realist]

Pippen was a bigger, stronger, more versatile physical specimen than Isiah. You could place him on any team and he would fit in and excel. But Isiah had leadership and a cult of personality quality that only a few greats had. The Bad Boys were all Isiah. Built not just around his physical talents but his personality. His teams played chess and he was the mind and spirit behind it all. You don't just find that quality lying around.

So I guess it depends on what you need. If you already have an A class leader (which is rare...think on the level of Magic, Bird, MJ, etc) then Pippen is the way to go. Put him anywhere because his talents, skill, intelligence, length and versatility can help any team in a myriad of ways. (Ironically....the Dream Team sort of maybe unintentionally made this choice). But if you're starting from scratch, you don't let Isiah slip from your fingers. You can find pieces to put around him. Isiah's a chess master and he would find a way to build a winning team and put his personal stamp on it.

[999Guy]

But if you're starting from scratch, you don't let Isiah slip from your fingers. You can find pieces to put around him. Isiah's a chess master and he would find a way to build a winning team and put his personal stamp on it.

On a team with Bill Laimbeer and Chuck Daly, Isiah Thomas is barely leading shit and he definitely didn’t build anything.

Good lord god almighty. He had 4 guys who were all-stars before and after his prime on his team. He built nothing singlehandedly.

Isiah Thomas isn’t responsible for the brute force mentality that had Laimbeer beefing with Bird in college, the motor and defensive tools of Dumars to go along with his offensive game, or the freakish instincts and athleticism of Rodman, who essentially lucked and worked into the league in the most unorthodox way of the era.

Let alone Dantley. Let alone Aguirre, two all-stars before ever joining Detroit.

Or Edwards, starting big man for a a DECADE before Detroit.


To give him credit for the quality of those players(because players compose a team, and NONE of those guys needed Isiah for shit, they all proved that in their careers), is a joke.

[Roundball_Rock]

(Ironically....the Dream Team sort of maybe unintentionally made this choice)

Pippen was the 4th pick for the Dream Team. It was never between him and Isiah or anyone else since he wasn't borderline to make the team. Drexler was the one who took the last NBA spot.

[Da_Realist]

Pippen was the 4th pick for the Dream Team. It was never between him and Isiah or anyone else since he wasn't borderline to make the team. Drexler was the one who took the last NBA spot.

I didn't mean that directly. I meant that what made Isiah special (leadership) was already covered by other guys on the team.

[Roundball_Rock]

I didn't mean that directly. I meant that what made Isiah special (leadership) was already covered by other guys on the team.

Got it.

I just made that comment because a lot of people on ISH seem to think Pippen was one of the borderline guys so bring up how Zeke or Nique should have been in over him. He wasn't on the borderline, ironically that was peak Drexler and no one remembers he was picked after the other 10 NBA players were chosen.

It was between Drexler and Thomas for the 11th NBA spot (1 went to a college player).

[bizil]

The two most VALUABLE TYPES of players in NBA history are:

- Dominant C's or PF-C types who dominate the interior on an MVP level- Cap, Shaq, Wilt, Russ, Hakeem, David, Duncan, Moses, etc.

- Players 6'5 and up who can play AND defend a minimum of three positions at a great level. And from there are LEGIT great at scoring, passing, and rebounding their positions: MJ, Bron, Kobe, Magic, Bird, Oscar, KD, Hondo, Giannis etc. Some of these guys give u great defense too so that's a bonus


So when u look at it like that, NEITHER Isiah or Pippen quite fit either mold. BUT Pip comes CLOSER to fitting one of these molds than Isiah does. Pip LITERALLY has the all the elements of the 2nd group EXCEPT the scoring part. And even scoring wise, he can still get u 21 PPG. So while I would NEVER choose Pip over the guys I named in that 2nd group,when it comes to Isiah I think it's a matter of what your team needs. Isiah BY FAR was the more dominant offensive player.

But there's only so much he can do at 6'1. I sort of don't like comparing the AIs, Isiahs, Tinys, and CP3s to the bigger WELL ROUNDED perimeter players. Because those guys can do MANY of the things the smaller guys do. And they can plug more holes. SO unless my team FLAT OUT needs a great offensive PG to put them over the top, I think u gotta lean to Pippen. Because u could STILL play Pippen as your PG FLAT OUT if u had to. U wouldn't get the scoring and passing that Isiah would give u. But u would still get elite offensive ability AND so much more versatility, defense, and rebounding. If I was drafting to build a team between the two, I would take Isiah. Not MANY pass first PG's or point forward types ALSO have great scoring ability. Only a Bron, Magic, Oscar, or Isiah type have that shit.

[Xiao Yao You]

Thomas no question

[tpols]

Watch this and get back to me.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysBBPJT6nJ8

then compare that ^^^ to scottie SITTING OUT the most crucial play of the season in '94, his peak year.

:facepalm