Players from the 80s who would be allstars today?

[TAZORAC]

The athleticism, ESPECIALLY at the guard and forward positions today are far superior to athleticism from the 80s.

When your guard or forward you have to have the ability to beat opposing players off the dribble in order to get to the basket in todays game (that eliminates Larry Bird). With 80s players poor athleticism that would eliminate the vast majority of those players from being potential allstars.

The only players who could possibly be potential allstars were Wilkins, Malone, Barkley, Jordan and possibly Drexler. I can't think of anybody else.

[Xiao Yao You]

:facepalm

[HoopsNY]

The athleticism, ESPECIALLY at the guard and forward positions today are far superior to athleticism from the 80s.

When your guard or forward you have to have the ability to beat opposing players off the dribble in order to get to the basket in todays game (that eliminates Larry Bird). With 80s players poor athleticism that would eliminate the vast majority of those players from being potential allstars.

The only players who could possibly be potential allstars were Wilkins, Malone, Barkley, Jordan and possibly Drexler. I can't think of anybody else.

So somehow, Duncan, Dirk, Luka, Klay, Jokic, Nash, Pierce, etc all ended up being perennial all-stars, champions, MVPs, or just great players minus that level of athleticism that you're referring to?

[Kblaze8855]

Ignoring the trolling aspects of this bullshit for the moment....


The funny thing here is you can go watch clips of Bird beating some of the very players he mentioned off the dribble when he was not only older than all of them but less athletic to begin with.

[Kblaze8855]

Always amazing to me how unathletic people seem to think Larry bird was....



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[Phoenix]

https://www.essentiallysports.com/wp-content/uploads/Luka-Doncic.jpg

29/9/9, 21 years old, pudgy euro with a 10 inch vert in today's 'advanced' era. But sure, only 5 guys from the 80s could possible be stars today.

https://img.bleacherreport.net/img/slides/photos/004/377/703/34d9a51c123c3b69026add0ee500a384_crop_exact.jpg?w= 2975&h=2048&q=85

This guy....

https://i.redd.it/bckipyz73ba11.jpg

Not that one though. Think that's enough ISH for today.

[ralph_i_el]

Quickness is not really that big a deal when it comes to getting by your defender. Decisiveness, ball handling, and decision making are a bigger factor. Also, the bigger a threat your jumper is, the easier it is to drive.

Look at guys like Luka or McCollum. They aren't overwhelmingly fast or explosive. They just have good moves, good J's, good vision, and they don't hesitate.

I play basketball with a group of people between the ages of 16-60. The 60 year old guy is 5'9", but never loses a dribble, and has a ton of fakes, spins, and half spins. I've been shaken by this dude more than any other player in my life. This guy even has a little blonde mustache like Bird.

Yet somehow the AAU kid can't get by me at all, and settles for shitty step back 3's.

[Nowitness]

Few and far between. Players with the names of Mike Mitchell, Lonnie Shelton, Rickey Green, Calvin Nat and Joe Caroll made All-Star teams in the 80s. Easily the worst era for talent we have ever seen.

[RogueBorg]

https://www.essentiallysports.com/wp-content/uploads/Luka-Doncic.jpg

29/9/9, 21 years old, pudgy euro with a 10 inch vert in today's 'advanced' era. But sure, only 5 guys from the 80s could possible be stars today.

https://img.bleacherreport.net/img/slides/photos/004/377/703/34d9a51c123c3b69026add0ee500a384_crop_exact.jpg?w= 2975&h=2048&q=85

This guy....

https://i.redd.it/bckipyz73ba11.jpg



That Robinson pic is scary. And to think Shaq used to throw him around like a rag doll.

[ralph_i_el]

That Robinson pic is scary. And to think Shaq used to throw him around like a rag doll.

Having massive arms like that probably doesn't actually help you very much. Give me a big with a strong base over strong arms.

Jokic may look pudgy, but he's a ****ing ox. He probably has the same training early on as the Serbian water polo guys. They completely outclass the Americans, while every American player is shredded and half the Serbs have guts.

[j3lademaster]

I think the disparity in athleticism gets overblown. In the 80s and 90s you saw rosters of 12-15 ballplayers, now you see rosters of 10 ballplayers and 2-5 athletes they’re hoping to make into ballplayers. People look at them and say “well if the 12th man off the bench is that athletic”. Well how athletic is Klay if we compare him to say, a Sean Elliott. Harden is a stocky 6’4 6’5ish strong swingman who wouldn’t be considered athletic in either era... basically Mitch Richmond. Dennis Smith jr is basically KJ. I remember jr Smith and Lou Williams on a podcast ridiculing 6’7 230 lbs Rodman being the size of a ‘small guard’ today. What are you then Lou will? You seem fine at what 6’1 165? Draymond spends a lot of time at center and he’s 6’6. Sure we don’t have anything to compare with Lebron or Westbrook, but who right now compares to Jordan, Shaq and Robinson?

[HoopsNY]

Few and far between. Players with the names of Mike Mitchell, Lonnie Shelton, Rickey Green, Calvin Nat and Joe Caroll made All-Star teams in the 80s. Easily the worst era for talent we have ever seen.

Mitchell went 7 years of 23/6 ball as a small forward, shooting 50%. And despite those numbers, he only made 1 all-star team. He also played on some good teams and was consistent in the playoffs. So not sure why you're hatin.

Rickey Green only made the all-star team once and did so in a reason where he scored nearly 14 points and averaged over 9 assists a game, led the league in steals, shot 49%, and finished 13th in MVP voting for a team that was a playoff team.

Calvin Natt only made one all-star team where he averaged 23+ ppg and 8 rebounds, shooting 55% as a 6'6" PF, on a Denver team that won 52 games and made it to the WCF against LA. In that series against LA he averaged 22.4 ppg, second on the team behind Alex English.

Joe Carroll averaged 21.2 pts and 7.3 rebs for the GSW that made it to the WCSF against LA. For Carroll's first six seasons in the league, he was a 20/8 player averaging 1.7 blks. And once again, he only made the all-star team once.

Why highlight the anomalies, especially when they put together pretty good seasons the years they made the all-star team?

[tpols]

That Robinson pic is scary. And to think Shaq used to throw him around like a rag doll.

drob has strong arms but a lean torso... moving peoples all about the girth in the middle.

[tpols]

I think the disparity in athleticism gets overblown. In the 80s and 90s you saw rosters of 12-15 ballplayers, now you see rosters of 10 ballplayers and 2-5 athletes they’re hoping to make into ballplayers. People look at them and say “well if the 12th man off the bench is that athletic”. Well how athletic is Klay if we compare him to say, a Sean Elliott. Harden is a stocky 6’4 6’5ish strong swingman who wouldn’t be considered athletic in either era... basically Mitch Richmond. Dennis Smith jr is basically KJ. I remember jr Smith and Lou Williams on a podcast ridiculing 6’7 230 lbs Rodman being the size of a ‘small guard’ today. What are you then Lou will? You seem fine at what 6’1 165? Draymond spends a lot of time at center and he’s 6’6. Sure we don’t have anything to compare with Lebron or Westbrook, but who right now compares to Jordan, Shaq and Robinson?

Bulls rodman looks way heavier than 230 to me. Artest was 260+, and rodman looks bigger than him.

[j3lademaster]

Bulls rodman looks way heavier than 230 to me. Artest was 260+, and rodman looks bigger than him.
Idk man artest is pretty jacked, but I know where you’re coming from. It’s like you look at Admiral and he’s listed 7’ 230... yeah in which bicep? I just paraphrased the size Lou and JR came up with. As long as the point of my post was clear it’s whatever.

[Round Mound]

The athleticism, ESPECIALLY at the guard and forward positions today are far superior to athleticism from the 80s.

When your guard or forward you have to have the ability to beat opposing players off the dribble in order to get to the basket in todays game (that eliminates Larry Bird). With 80s players poor athleticism that would eliminate the vast majority of those players from being potential allstars.

The only players who could possibly be potential allstars were Wilkins, Malone, Barkley, Jordan and possibly Drexler. I can't think of anybody else.

:roll::facepalm: :no:

[mr4speed]

Always amazing to me how unathletic people seem to think Larry bird was....



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Thanks for sharing the video. The bottom collection has a dunk I have not seen = vs Houston judging by the color of the floor and the wide baseline. That is a rather athletic dunk! One of the best photos of Bird appeared in the November 09 issue of Sport's Illustrated in 1981 titled "Gifts that God Didn't Give" and it is on page 84 of the magazine and can be found in the SI Vault on line as page 102 of the 134 pages. It is a photo of Bird blocking Kareem's sky hook and demonstrates Bird's defensive abilities and hops early in his career. Those that did not watch him play have no idea.

[Manny98]

Michael Cooper would be Tony Allen with a jumpshot and the ability to play point guard

Basically Jrue Holiday with much better defense

[FKAri]

I think the disparity in athleticism gets overblown. In the 80s and 90s you saw rosters of 12-15 ballplayers, now you see rosters of 10 ballplayers and 2-5 athletes they’re hoping to make into ballplayers. People look at them and say “well if the 12th man off the bench is that athletic”. Well how athletic is Klay if we compare him to say, a Sean Elliott. Harden is a stocky 6’4 6’5ish strong swingman who wouldn’t be considered athletic in either era... basically Mitch Richmond. Dennis Smith jr is basically KJ. I remember jr Smith and Lou Williams on a podcast ridiculing 6’7 230 lbs Rodman being the size of a ‘small guard’ today. What are you then Lou will? You seem fine at what 6’1 165? Draymond spends a lot of time at center and he’s 6’6. Sure we don’t have anything to compare with Lebron or Westbrook, but who right now compares to Jordan, Shaq and Robinson?

Bingo.

[MrFonzworth]

Michael Cooper would be Tony Allen with a jumpshot and the ability to play point guard

Basically Jrue Holiday with much better defense

Cooper had no where near the offensive skillset Jrue has today. Not even close.

[Kblaze8855]

Yea coop had a different kinda game.....



https://youtu.be/VEezWSGipAM

[Manny98]

Yea coop had a different kinda game.....



https://youtu.be/VEezWSGipAM
What modern player would you compare Coop too?

His combination of defense, 3 point shooting and playmaking would be highly sort after in todays NBA

[1987_Lakers]

I love Coop, there was a stretch in the '84 season where Magic was out for a month and Cooper came in an averaged 9.5 apg in that one month span, people don't know about his playmaking abilities, you only think defense when his name comes up. He also held the NBA record at one point for most 3s made in an NBA Finals game with 6.

With that said, he would have to put on some weight if he played today, dude was thin. 6'5" and 170 pounds, put him on a training program and he would be alright in today's league.

[MrFonzworth]

What modern player would you compare Coop too?

His combination of defense, 3 point shooting and playmaking would be highly sort after in todays NBA

Aaron Afflalo. Marcus Smart.

[Lebron23]

Fat Lever

[Monta Ellis MVP]

https://www.essentiallysports.com/wp-content/uploads/Luka-Doncic.jpg

29/9/9, 21 years old, pudgy euro with a 10 inch vert in today's 'advanced' era. But sure, only 5 guys from the 80s could possible be stars today.

https://img.bleacherreport.net/img/slides/photos/004/377/703/34d9a51c123c3b69026add0ee500a384_crop_exact.jpg?w= 2975&h=2048&q=85

This guy....

https://i.redd.it/bckipyz73ba11.jpg

Not that one though. Think that's enough ISH for today.

I have never looked at it that way before.

[Axe]

Bulls rodman looks way heavier than 230 to me. Artest was 260+, and rodman looks bigger than him.
Artest was overweight

[Lion's pride]

I play basketball with a group of people between the ages of 16-60. The 60 year old guy is 5'9", but never loses a dribble, and has a ton of fakes, spins, and half spins. I've been shaken by this dude more than any other player in my life. This guy even has a little blonde mustache like Bird.

Yet somehow the AAU kid can't get by me at all, and settles for shitty step back 3's.

Love this post..

[Soundwave]

That Robinson pic is scary. And to think Shaq used to throw him around like a rag doll.

Shaq would be arrested and put in jail for what he would do to today's league.

[FreezingTsmoove]

You really cant see Olajuwon, Ewing, Pippen, Robinson as all stars? Hakeem, Ewing, Rob alone would change the way the game is played today because you would need a really good center to guard them or they would be competing for MVPS every year in todays game

[Soundwave]

I'll take the 80s All-Stars over the 2020 squad (pick whoever you want)

C - Kareem
PF - Hakeem
SF - Bird
SG - Jordan
PG - Magic

Bench:

C - M. Malone
PG - Thomas
SF - Dominque
SG - Drexler
PF - Barkley

Vs

C - Emiid
PF - Giannis
SF - Kawhi
SG - Harden
PG - LeBron

C - Jokic
PF - AD
SF - Luka
SG - Westbrook
PG - Lillard

[fourkicks44]

You really cant see Olajuwon, Ewing, Pippen, Robinson as all stars? Hakeem, Ewing, Rob alone would change the way the game is played today because you would need a really good center to guard them or they would be competing for MVPS every year in todays game

In all honesty, Joel, Jokic and Gobert are just just as good as Dream, Admiral and Ewing at the same age.

Real talk.

If they finish their careers on par, yet to be seen.

But at the same age, just as good.

Remember Joel Embiid was statistically only comparable to Wilt before he injured his knee as a rookie.

[Kblaze8855]

In all honesty, Joel, Jokic and Gobert are just just as good as Dream, Admiral and Ewing at the same age.

Real talk.

If they finish their careers on par, yet to be seen.

But at the same age, just as good.

Remember Joel Embiid was statistically only comparable to Wilt before he injured his knee as a rookie.


I dont know.

Gobert is 27. This is Patrick Ewing(the worst of those 3 options) at 27:



https://youtu.be/Mk0q4WY6WeE

[Kblaze8855]

So is this:


https://youtu.be/VbKTCuTiphA




He was also blocking 4 shots a game that season....


The GM survey had 7 people pick him over Hakeem and David Robinson. Exactly zero people would take any of the 3 you mentioned over those two at that point in time.

And he had to do it vs teams that still built their lineups to deal with players like him. Nobody in the NBA is trying to stop man to man scoring from 18 feet and in by your center. Every team in the NBA in 1990 was concerned with guarding players like that well. On top of it most teams played 2 true bigs. Really throws off some of the numbers in my eyes. At any point in these modern guys career will they play a team that has 2 rebounders the likes of Barkley and Moses playing at the same time(well Moses and Willis at that moment I believe)? Or Laimbeer/Rodman? Will anyone you mentioned play 2 people like Hakeem and Otis thorpe in one opposing frontcourt while also playing with a Charles Oakley type on his own team who once had 35 rebounds in a game? Any of these guys ever play a 4/5 matchup the physical equal of Shaq and Horace grant? David Robinson and Dennis Rodman?

The 50/18 game above was against Bird, Mchale, and Parish all of them still all stars. Will any of those 3 players play a team with even 2 players who require so much defensive attention in or near the paint? Yea Lebron couple outplay 1990 Larry Bird and Davis is better than 1990 Mchale.....but which of them is a better post scorer? None of the people we talk about now have to really play man D like Ewing did....while he had to do that and hold down the paint vs entire teams like they do. Hes not switching on guards often back then but its not like Gobert or Jokic dont get put in a blender much of the time they try it. And Embiid isnt exactly guarding Tim Hardaway at 22 feet either.

I dont even know how to compare these bigs to guys like Ewing, Drob, and Hakeem who had the weight of holding down both ends...and often having someone to guard.

Gobert especially. His value on offense is screens. You arent giving him the ball to go back at a player like Shaq in a 40 minute man to man battle while he also has to protect the paint every second.

These guys vs stretch bigs and 4s who are Steve Smith sized dont really show me much of what they could do in Ewings shoes. And Ewing was comfortably the worst of the 3 people you mentioned.

Im not calling those guys garbage. At least 2 of them are hall of famers. But probably more Zo level hall of fame than Hakeem/Drob level. Or Ewing.

[ArbitraryWater]

Quickness is not really that big a deal when it comes to getting by your defender. Decisiveness, ball handling, and decision making are a bigger factor. Also, the bigger a threat your jumper is, the easier it is to drive.

Look at guys like Luka or McCollum. They aren't overwhelmingly fast or explosive. They just have good moves, good J's, good vision, and they don't hesitate.

I play basketball with a group of people between the ages of 16-60. The 60 year old guy is 5'9", but never loses a dribble, and has a ton of fakes, spins, and half spins. I've been shaken by this dude more than any other player in my life. This guy even has a little blonde mustache like Bird.

Yet somehow the AAU kid can't get by me at all, and settles for shitty step back 3's.

lmao ofc it is

[Kblaze8855]

Those guys are closer to older almost washed up Ewing. The one who had to fall back on his jumper more often and make other bigs pay for being lazy. This guy:





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But even that guy held down an elite D and still had to deal with this monster on the other end.....

[fourkicks44]

It was always gonna be touch and go throwing Gobert in there :oldlol:

But defensively he is as good as any of them in their prime.

You maybe able to use the agurmemnt he doesn't go up against the quality of centre night in night out that the old schoolers did.

I would counter that with the fact they didn't have to switch out to the perimeter against such deadly perimeter threats as Rudy does night in night out.

[Kblaze8855]

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How do we compensate for that when comparing?

One group has sleepless nights because Al Horford is coming to town....the other has to guard Shaq, Hakeem, Drob, Zo and so on to earn his standing among the best bigs.


Vs the same competition I can easily see Ewing being considered a lot better than he is now. Who is the best scoring most aggressive big any of these 3 ever faced? Demarcus Cousins?

They just don’t have the same responsibility to dominate or the same level of player attempting to prevent it in my eyes.

They face their own unique challenges I just don’t know how they handle the league those guys had. Embiid and Jokic would find their way I’m sure.

Gobert is likely a footnote.

[Kblaze8855]

It was always gonna be touch and go throwing Gobert in there :oldlol:

But defensively he is as good as any of them in their prime.

You maybe able to use the agurmemnt he doesn't go up against the quality of centre night in night out that the old schoolers did.

I would counter that with the fact they didn't have to switch out to the perimeter against such deadly perimeter threats as Rudy does night in night out.


Sure he switches. Doesn’t mean he can actually contain those people in space:


https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ReflectingMintyCats-size_restricted.gif



and he shouldn’t be expected to.


But everything he does is made easier by having less of a load to carry individually.

Hes not guarding Hakeem then having to go back at him for 25 a night to give his team a shot.

Both eras present their own problems....but I think a big from the 90s happily comes to deal with these before some of these guys go deal with theirs.

Nobody is trying to see some of the people a 90s center had to guard...and be guarded by.

Those individual matchups are all but dead at that position now. Not dead....but on life support.

A Zo/Mutombo battle would be more physical than anything most of these guys ever see today and that’s a matchup we wouldn’t even go out of our way to see in 1995 as I believe you remember.

[fourkicks44]

Sure he switches. Doesn’t mean he can actually contain those people in space:


https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ReflectingMintyCats-size_restricted.gif



and he shouldn’t be expected to.


But everything he does is made easier by having less of a load to carry individually.

Hes not guarding Hakeem then having to go back at him for 25 a night to give his team a shot.

Both eras present their own problems....but I think a big from the 90s happily comes to deal with these before some of these guys go deal with theirs.

Nobody is trying to see some of the people a 90s center had to guard...and be guarded by.

Those individual matchups are all but dead at that position now. Not dead....but on life support.

A Zo/Mutombo battle would be more physical than anything most of these guys ever see today and that’s a matchup we wouldn’t even go out of our way to see in 1995 as I believe you remember.

Hmm, I say yes and no.

It obviously not the same but when the big bulls lock horns it's still on.

KAT and Embiid brawling cause they are both so competitive is a prime example.

The centre position is having a rebirth, it's happening before our eyes.

Once these guys mature in the next 3-5 and the Durrant, LeBron, Curry era all stars are well on the decline IT IS ON.

[Kblaze8855]

Id like to see it happen but I dont know what its gonna look like. KAT for one....I respect his talent. But thing is....Ray Allen, Reggie Miller, and Glen Rice in a combined 50+ years in the NBA....only had 2 seasons taking as many threes a game as he took this year. Playing only 33 minutes a game. Hes tall....but doesnt exactly play "big". We comparing the physical aspect of guarding a guy like that to what the people in question were dealing with?

Sure it requires moving your feet and being more willing to step out. Just look to my Ewing clips earlier for how lazy Shaq could get if you made him step outside. But the punishment you took on the other end?

It doesnt feel like as much is required to prosper vs the people a good center has to play now. They play teams built to switch not to guard them because so few teams have one of them to guard.

And its reasonable. Why build a team to defend guys like Shaq, Hakeem, Ewing, David, Zo, Smits, Seikaly, Parish, Moses and so on when the best scoring centers are taking 8-9 threes a night?

But fact is.....they dont. Teams do not set themselves up to stop a great individual scoring big.

I dont know what this league would do if you just gave a guy like Hakeem or Shaq the ball on the block 45 times to let them decide what to do.

Maybe just let them go for 35-40 2 at a time and bomb away and win with threes?

I dont know. I dont see a team collapsing its D to double a Shaq type with so many shooters and shooting bigs to put around him. They might just let him feast....and beat him anyway.

Interesting to think about at least.

[ralph_i_el]

lmao ofc it is

I just looked at the top-20 players in terms of drives per game last year. A lot of those guys are quick, like Ja Morant or De'aaron Fox. However, Luka, Malcolm Brogdan, and Fred VanVleet are in the top-20.

The ability to recognize an opening and decisively take it is more important than physical quickness.

I'm watching old playoff games right now, and late-30's Ginobili is getting by good defenders at will.

[fourkicks44]

Id like to see it happen but I dont know what its gonna look like. KAT for one....I respect his talent. But thing is....Ray Allen, Reggie Miller, and Glen Rice in a combined 50+ years in the NBA....only had 2 seasons taking as many threes a game as he took this year. Playing only 33 minutes a game. Hes tall....but doesnt exactly play "big". We comparing the physical aspect of guarding a guy like that to what the people in question were dealing with?

Sure it requires moving your feet and being more willing to step out. Just look to my Ewing clips earlier for how lazy Shaq could get if you made him step outside. But the punishment you took on the other end?

It doesnt feel like as much is required to prosper vs the people a good center has to play now. They play teams built to switch not to guard them because so few teams have one of them to guard.

And its reasonable. Why build a team to defend guys like Shaq, Hakeem, Ewing, David, Zo, Smits, Seikaly, Parish, Moses and so on when the best scoring centers are taking 8-9 threes a night?

But fact is.....they dont. Teams do not set themselves up to stop a great individual scoring big.

I dont know what this league would do if you just gave a guy like Hakeem or Shaq the ball on the block 45 times to let them decide what to do.

Maybe just let them go for 35-40 2 at a time and bomb away and win with threes?

I dont know. I dont see a team collapsing its D to double a Shaq type with so many shooters and shooting bigs to put around him. They might just let him feast....and beat him anyway.

Interesting to think about at least.

Ahh Kblaze, you should watch more 76ers' games.

Every night Joel is doubled and tripled teamed.

The only time he is not is when he is up against another all star centre like Rudy or Jokic.

Shit, remember the All Star game and when it came down to the clutch, the East team went to Joel one on one against LeBron.

It's coming, I'm telling you. The fact that big men are hitting threes is more of an indication of their dominance, it's not detracting from it.

Joel in particular has said he wants to be in the paint at all times but realizes he has to step out to the perimeter because his point guard refuses to shoot (and that is a different conversation for a different time).

[Kblaze8855]

I watch an awful lot of Embiid. I’ve always been a fan and he is a throwback approach wise. He takes matchups personal. But....he’d still be the most Perimeter playing big of those in question 25-30 years ago. He has it in him to play old school but he settles quite a lot. Who sets out to build their D to stop him the way teams did for Shaq, Hakeem, and even Ewing? Bill Cartwright was traded for a much better much younger Oakley just to guard centers one on one. Few teams concern themselves with such things now. And it makes sense. How many players are gonna hurt you playing one on one inside 12 feet? Maybe the raptors getting Gasol had a similar concern....but that used to be every team. Every team was looking for a big who could guard another post big. They didn’t all have one but it was seen as important.

Teams aren’t looking for that now. They want a 5 who can guard a wing.

Joel could adjust I’m sure(though Horford made him look bad at times). But I’ve not seen it to judge.