Lebron has no rebounding edge on MJ because his style negates it (proof inside)

[3ball]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=G2Xz4K42gXM&t=03m11s


^^^^ so jordan commanding doubles weakened the Knicks' defensive rebounding

Otoh, Lebron doesn't (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?466601-SVG-We-let-Lebron-play-1on1-in-the-09-series-we-were-fine-giving-him-points-stats) get doubled or barely (https://i.makeagif.com/media/3-22-2019/6e5aBZ.gif), so he isn't hurting the opponent's defensive rebounding and therefore must rebound more himself compared to Jordan.

we already knew that lebron's long-dribbling lets the defense rest more than MJ's ball movement, and now we know his inability to command doubles makes it easier for the opponent to rebound.

ultimately, his no-double-team and long-dribble style doesn't shift defenses/wear down teams like the ball movement he faces at the championship level, so opponents are always fresher with more capacity to go off (14' Finals, 09' ECF)... it often looks like lebron's team is playing bad defense but it's really just bron-ball losing the attrition battle - aka the best defense is a good offense, and bron-ball applies less pressure than it faces at the championship level.

So lets summarize - MJ leads in offensive rebounds, while defensive rebounds and assists are offset by double-teaming and better ball movement, respectively.. So only scoring, efficiency, and defense matter - i.e. MJ has goat scoring and efficiency per possession among wings, while also being the most decorated wing defender... :confusedshrug:... Goat gonna goat

[Nowitness]

LeBron's unrivaled vision and passing ability however does lead to the defence having to lock in and be alert every second they are on the floor however, whereas with MJ 3 of the 5 opposing players could rest up on D because MJ was never going to be passing to the open man. In the end the energy LBJ commands out of his opposition can't be matched. Add to this the fact LeBron dind't need 5 years of rest to just beat teams with 1 A--Star a piece then we see James true impact on the boards.

[3ball]

LeBron's unrivaled vision and passing ability however does lead to the defence having to lock in and be alert every second they are on the floor however, whereas with MJ 3 of the 5 opposing players could rest up on D because MJ was never going to be passing to the open man. In the end the energy LBJ commands out of his opposition can't be matched. Add to this the fact LeBron dind't need 5 years of rest to just beat teams with 1 A--Star a piece then we see James true impact on the boards.

Ball movement is harder to defend than 1 guy dribbling and seeking assists - jordan's teams moved the ball with high team assists, while lebron dominates the ball with low team assists and his team gets massively out-assisted in the Finals.

Regardless, your point is moot because MJ and lebron averaged equal assists in the playoffs thru 3 rings each:


Lebron 06-16' Playoffs... 7.2 apg
Jordan 85-93' Playoffs... 6.6 apg

So MJ was assisting like lebron... but he did so without dominating the ball so his team had great ball movement... Lebron dominates the ball and hogs the team assists, so the ball doesn't move and defenses get to rest

[ImKobe]

LeBron's unrivaled vision and passing ability however does lead to the defence having to lock in and be alert every second they are on the floor however, whereas with MJ 3 of the 5 opposing players could rest up on D because MJ was never going to be passing to the open man. In the end the energy LBJ commands out of his opposition can't be matched. Add to this the fact LeBron dind't need 5 years of rest to just beat teams with 1 A--Star a piece then we see James true impact on the boards.

seek help.

[3ball]

Btw, Van Gundy says that doubling MJ hurt the Knicks' defensive rebounding, which helps the Bulls' rebounders stats

Look at the 96' Finals - the youtube channel "Nobody Touches Jordan" did a video of Payton guarding MJ in Game 4 (link here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgFWyLRNsGk)) - MJ was doubled exactly 10 of the 20 times he caught the ball with Payton guarding - all 10 double-teams are shown if gifs here (htp://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11792377&postcount=161)... that obviously helps Rodman's rebounding.

Ultimately, these constant double-teams hurt the opponent's defensive rebounding, which makes them work harder and have less capacity for offense - its a great example of how jordan's style wore down teams/won the attrition battle better than lebron's long-dribbling and no doubling.

[No Sir]

Bron still got these boys shook like dice I see:pimp:

[Wally450]

You say LeBron has no edge on Jordan at all, so why make thread after thread comparing the two? Seek help.

[3ball]

Roundball?

Your thoughts?

[FKAri]

Roundball?

Your thoughts?

I don't have the password saved on my work PC. I'll hit you back when I get home.

[3ball]

I don't have the password saved on my work PC. I'll hit you back when I get home.

Did you get that password fixed 'Roundball' or you still running from the OP facts

I tried to tell you that Bron's long-dribbling loses the attrition battle vs zippy ball movement, quick-hitting jumpshooting and players that require doubles (thus hurting a defense's rebounding)

[Rico2016]

LeBron's unrivaled vision and passing ability however does lead to the defence having to lock in and be alert every second they are on the floor however, whereas with MJ 3 of the 5 opposing players could rest up on D because MJ was never going to be passing to the open man. In the end the energy LBJ commands out of his opposition can't be matched. Add to this the fact LeBron dind't need 5 years of rest to just beat teams with 1 A--Star a piece then we see James true impact on the boards.

Shut :dancin

It :lebronamazed:

Down :hammertime:

[Vino24]

LeBron's unrivaled vision and passing ability however does lead to the defence having to lock in and be alert every second they are on the floor however, whereas with MJ 3 of the 5 opposing players could rest up on D because MJ was never going to be passing to the open man. In the end the energy LBJ commands out of his opposition can't be matched. Add to this the fact LeBron dind't need 5 years of rest to just beat teams with 1 A--Star a piece then we see James true impact on the boards.

Bingo

[OrlandoMagicGuy]

Why hasn't LeStat led the league in rebounding?

[Vino24]

Why hasn't LeStat led the league in rebounding?

Because he isn’t a center?

[ArbitraryWater]

Jordan is a better rebounder than LeBron because he was doubled more often

[OrlandoMagicGuy]

Because he isn’t a center?

So he's not a great rebounder,got it.

[Vino24]

So he's not a great rebounder,got it.

Better than MJ

[OrlandoMagicGuy]

Better than MJ
A lot of those rebounds he gets are uncontested so idk about that,also Jordan has more offensive rebounds for his career.

[Vino24]

A lot of those rebounds he gets are uncontested so idk about that,also Jordan has more offensive rebounds for his career.

You can move goal posts or you can man up and accept it

[OrlandoMagicGuy]

You can move goal posts or you can man up and accept it
Look at Jordan's gamelog for 88-89 season

[Nowitness]

Thread is invalid, its not like MJ averages more than LBJ and we are arguing James is better. LBJ averages more rebounds, more per 100 possessions and grabs a higher % of the available rebounds. MJ wasn't even the best rebounding two guard of his own day, that would be the man Portland chose about that alcoholic chain smoker.

[Vino24]

Thread is invalid, its not like MJ averages more than LBJ and we are arguing James is better. LBJ averages more rebounds, more per 100 possessions and grabs a higher % of the available rebounds. MJ wasn't even the best rebounding two guard of his own day, that would be the man Portland chose about that alcoholic chain smoker.
Bingo. Why can’t MJ stans accept reality?

[OrlandoMagicGuy]

Thread is invalid, its not like MJ averages more than LBJ and we are arguing James is better. LBJ averages more rebounds, more per 100 possessions and grabs a higher % of the available rebounds. MJ wasn't even the best rebounding two guard of his own day, that would be the man Portland chose about that alcoholic chain smoker.
Why hasn't LeStat led the league in rebounding?

[Vino24]

Why hasn't LeStat led the league in rebounding?

I got one better. Leading everyone in everything in the finals while beating the winningest team in history. Cemented goat chip

[OrlandoMagicGuy]

I got one better. Leading everyone in everything in the finals while beating the winningest team in history. Cemented goat chip

Why couldn't he do that in all of his finals?

[Vino24]

Why couldn't he do that in all of his finals?

He actually had like 3 consecutive years of almost doing just that. It’s incredibly difficult hence why it’s only been done once

[ThatCoolKid]

Lebron is taller with the greater wingspan. He also has more heart and effort boxing out and going for rebounds. The numbers reflect this: Lebron 7.4 rpg vs Jordan 6.2 rpg. Numbers don't lie.

[Roundball_Rock]

Jordan was a good rebounder for a guard but again MJ stans are overselling things. Like saying MJ>Bird as a three pointer shooter in another thread. Let's get real.

[ThatCoolKid]

Jordan was a good rebounder for a guard but again MJ stans are overselling things. Like saying MJ>Bird as a three pointer shooter in another thread. Let's get real.

Exactly. You just have to look at the numbers to see the truth. Let's not lose the greater perspective.

[3ball]

Jordan was a good rebounder for a guard but again MJ stans are overselling things. Like saying MJ>Bird as a three pointer shooter in another thread. Let's get real.

Do you have remedial education or something?

The OP quoted Van Gundy, who said that one of the 3 reasons he couldn't beat mj was because doubling him hurt their defensive rebounds

Otoh, Lebron's well-documented inability to get doubled makes his team work harder on the glass compared to MJ

Refute the point being made like i did (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?480300-Lebron-never-beat-a-top-5-SRS-team-without-at-least-19-8-ppg-from-sidekick&p=14002693&viewfull=1#post14002693)