Who had the better first 2 Finals?

[3ball]

90/92 Drexler or 07/11 Lebron?

I eyeballed the stats btw im sorry

[PoutinPippin]

Damn, Glide went up against three of basically the best on ball defenders ever.

LeBron struggles with old plumbers in Kidd, JJ Barea, and Terry.

[MrFonzworth]

Damn, Glide went up against three of basically the best on ball defenders ever.

And had to close the local Denny's right after:eek:

[PoutinPippin]

And had to close the local Denny's right after:eek:
He earned eating that Grand Slam breakfast after that, for sure

[Akeem34TheDream]

This loser responded to his own post with his alt.:oldlol:

[Manny98]

LeBron was still a baby in his 1st two finals whilst Drexler was in his absolute prime

LeBron was playing finals games on the biggest stage at the same age MJ was getting spanked in the 1st round :roll:

[SouBeachTalents]

LeBron was still a baby in his 1st two finals whilst Drexler was in his absolute prime

LeBron was playing finals games on the biggest stage at the same age MJ was getting spanked in the 1st round :roll:
26 is not a baby :oldlol:

[Stanley Kobrick]

And had to close the local Denny's right after:eek:
can't sit here and lie, i chuckled

[3ball]

LeBron was still a baby in his 1st two finals whilst Drexler was in his absolute prime



26 years old in 2011 isn't a "baby"

And he was 22 in 07', so that's older than FMVP Magic (20), and about the same age as MJ when he averaged 44/6/6 against the 86' Celtics and their #1 defense






LeBron was playing finals games on the biggest stage at the same age MJ was getting spanked in the 1st round :roll:



You needed a juggernaut with numerous HOF's to win the 80's East - weak teams like 09' Magic, 07' Cavs, 03' Nets or 01' Sixers wouldn't make it in the 80's.. so lebron formed a strong team in a conference that weak teams were rountinely winning, hence the "Finals streak" (completely manufactured resume)

[HoopsNY]

This is another dumb tear down post. No one thinks Clyde > Lebron. Give it a rest 3ball.

[j3lademaster]

Yeah Lebron for sure shat the bed in 2011, I’m sure everyone admits that. But just curious 3ball, how much stock do you put into a players development? Obviously Lebron isn’t naturally a killer from the Jordan/ Kobe cloth but he did develop a killer instinct in his own right. From 2012-current he is a great playoff performer and doesn’t the fact that Lebron wasn’t born with it and was able to develop impressive in its own way? It’s like when people give Kobe credit for being in Jordan/Lebron territory as an all time great despite not having the physical tools.

[3ball]

This is another dumb tear down post. No one thinks Clyde > Lebron. Give it a rest 3ball.

I'm not trying to say Clyde > lebron

I'm pointing out how good he was - 25/7/6 on 49% from 87-92'... That's better than Kobe's career stats and basically same as lebron's...

And the stats show his best playoff runs exceed lebron's 07' and 11' runs..

Essentially, he was a Kobe/Wade level player at his peak, just shy of their peaks.. he shouldn't be put in the vince carter and Michael Redd class of guards.. he's on the Kobe/Wade level and his all-round stats show that.. tbh, Kobe frequently underperformed Drexler in the Finals

[Lebron23]

90/92 Drexler or 07/11 Lebron?

I eyeballed the stats btw im sorry

What's LeBron stats from the 2012 to 2018 nba finals??

[3ball]

What's LeBron stats from the 2012 to 2018 nba finals??

you mean after Wade taught him how to win and he formed a super-team in a conference that weak teams were routinely winning?

It matters little... Bottom line: MJ beat a better version of 07/11 Lebron in the 92' Finals

[Monta Ellis MVP]

Do you think Curry’s first two Finals are better than LeBron’s? Someone said that before but I do not know if it’s true.

[Wally450]

about the same age as MJ when he averaged 44/6/6 against the 86' Celtics and their #1 defense


Yet you shit on LeBron for putting up just as good all around numbers against the greatest team ever lol.

[3ball]

Yet you shit on LeBron for putting up just as good all around numbers against the greatest team ever lol.

44/6/6 is a full 10 points and higher with only 3-4 less assists, and Jordan's 8 seed didn't get beat by record amount like lebron's 2 seeds did.

Yes, jordan's 8 seed outperformed LeEmptyStat's high seed

[HoopsNY]

I'm not trying to say Clyde > lebron

I'm pointing out how good he was - 25/7/6 on 49% from 87-92'... That's better than Kobe's career stats and basically same as lebron's...

And the stats show his best playoff runs exceed lebron's 07' and 11' runs..

Essentially, he was a Kobe/Wade level player at his peak, just shy of their peaks.. he shouldn't be put in the vince carter and Michael Redd class of guards.. he's on the Kobe/Wade level and his all-round stats show that.. tbh, Kobe frequently underperformed Drexler in the Finals

I just feel like you're trying to prop up Clyde while at the same time pulling down LeBron. This is what Roundball does and it's not a fair way to evaluate a player. It's obvious in a way.

[Rico2016]

What's LeBron stats from the 2012 to 2018 nba finals??

This

/ t h r e a d

[3ball]

I just feel like you're trying to prop up Clyde while at the same time pulling down LeBron. This is what Roundball does and it's not a fair way to evaluate a player. It's obvious in a way.

I understand the comparison is unfair - I'm targeting lebron's 2 worst Finals

So I apologize for the disingenuous nature of my post - but if the thread title was "look how great prime Drexler was", no one gives a shit and probably wouldn't click on it... I probably wouldn't click on such a thread title

But by laying Drexler's stats against Lebron's, it puts in perspective how good Drexler was - again, Drexler's 26/8/5 against the top 3 perimeter defenders ever is superior capability than kobe and Wade showed most of the time

[1987_Lakers]

Pippen outplayed Drexler in '92.

[3ball]

Pippen outplayed Drexler in '92.

^^^ easy to do when you can rest on defense compared to MJ and Drexler

Pippen got to rest on defense, so he was fresher for offense - remember what MJ said in the documentary during the 98' all-star locker room?.. "I'm going to make him (kobe) work on defense, I'm going to work on him too (to counter Kobe)"...

Jordan understood the importance of blunting an opponent's attack by wearing them down on defense, aka the best defense is a good offense... Unfortunately, lebron-ball hasn't learned that because his inability to draw doubles (thus not hurting the defense's rebounding), along with his lack of quick-hitter jumpshooting style and long-dribbling doesn't wear down teams like the ball movement he faces at the championship level.

Essentially, lebron-ball doesn't have that high a ceiling regardless of cast or opponent, aka 3/9

[Rico2016]

Pippen outplayed Drexler in '92.

Shut :dancin

It :lebronamazed:

Down :hammertime:

[1987_Lakers]

Shut :dancin

It :lebronamazed:

Down :hammertime:

:hammertime::hammertime::hammertime:

[3ball]

Pippen outplayed Drexler in '92.

Drexler outplayed Pippen btw, but I was just showing you how easy Pippen had it.. I figured you would realize that or were trolling with your post to begin with

[Turbo Slayer]

^^^ easy to do when you can rest on defense compared to MJ and Drexler

Pippen got to rest on defense, so he was fresher for offense - remember what MJ said in the documentary during the 98' all-star locker room?.. "I'm going to make him (kobe) work on defense, I'm going to work on him too (to counter Kobe)"...

Jordan understood the importance of blunting an opponent's attack by wearing them down on defense, aka the best defense is a good offense... Unfortunately, lebron-ball hasn't learned that because his inability to draw doubles (thus not hurting the defense's rebounding), along with his lack of quick-hitter jumpshooting style and long-dribbling doesn't wear down teams like the ball movement he faces at the championship level.

Essentially, lebron-ball doesn't have that high a ceiling regardless of cast or opponent, aka 3/9
Unfortunately, lebron-ball hasn't learned that because his inability to draw doubles (thus not hurting the defense's rebounding), along with his lack of quick-hitter jumpshooting style and long-dribbling doesn't wear down teams like the ball movement he faces at the championship level. Teams don't double team LeBron because he is a "quick hitter" or whatever. They don't double b/c LeBron is one of the greatest passers of all-time. He's always willing to pass to cutters, players in transitions, throw up lobs, and throw up outlet passes to make defenses pay for sending help defenders on him.

I just feel LeBron has gotten double teamed just once b/c he is 1st in playoff points.


aka 3/9 A lot of people are 0-0. Just saying. Also Pippen is 6/6 too and Kyrie is 1/3. So Pippen was absolutely the better player according to your logic about Finals record. And btw its a team game. No one wins 1 v 5.

Jordan got his ass whooped by the Pistons and the Celtics before he had a good supporting cast. LeBron got his ass whooped too by the Warriors b/c lack of good supporting casts in 2015, 2017, and 2018.


best defense is a good offense It could be the other way around too.

[SATAN]

Imagine taking 3ball seriously :lol Let that bitch made alt die out like the ridden disease it is :lol

[Phoenix]

LeBron was still a baby in his 1st two finals whilst Drexler was in his absolute prime

LeBron was playing finals games on the biggest stage at the same age MJ was getting spanked in the 1st round :roll:

So he was a baby in 2011 at 26 and magically became an adult at 27 in 2012? I mean, I'm asking this knowing full well theres no logical reason to entertain any of this shit from you.

[Manny98]

So he was a baby in 2011 at 26 and magically became an adult at 27 in 2012? I mean, I'm asking this knowing full well theres no logical reason to entertain any of this shit from you.
He was still a baby in a sense that he was still growing into the complete mature version of himself which we saw in 2012/2013

If you think that the 2011 version of Lebron was even close to his peak form then you are a moron

[SATAN]

He has yet to reach his peak. Crazy.

[Smoke117]

I'm not trying to say Clyde > lebron

I'm pointing out how good he was - 25/7/6 on 49% from 87-92'... That's better than Kobe's career stats and basically same as lebron's...

And the stats show his best playoff runs exceed lebron's 07' and 11' runs..

Essentially, he was a Kobe/Wade level player at his peak, just shy of their peaks.. he shouldn't be put in the vince carter and Michael Redd class of guards.. he's on the Kobe/Wade level and his all-round stats show that.. tbh, Kobe frequently underperformed Drexler in the Finals

Again, Drexler isn’t close to Wade or Kobe. They were vastly superior Half court players you imbecile.

[Manny98]

Drexler outplayed Pippen btw, but I was just showing you how easy Pippen had it.. I figured you would realize that or were trolling with your post to begin with
21/8/8 off 48% with elite defense > 25/6/5 off 40% with average defense

92 Pippen > peak Drexler

[Phoenix]

He was still a baby in a sense that he was still growing into the complete mature version of himself which we saw in 2012/2013

If you think that the 2011 version of Lebron was even close to his peak form then you are a moron

Nah I'm not doing this with you. Lebron was 8 years into the league in 2011 and and already won 2 MVPs. He was more than capable of winning in 2011. But that's as far as I'm taking this exchange. I didn't give you the time of day to talk serious ball, mostly to reiterate that you're a fukking idiot. Continue on.

[Manny98]

Nah I'm not doing this with you. Lebron was 8 years into the league in 2011 and and already won 2 MVPs. He was more than capable of winning in 2011. But that's as far as I'm taking this exchange. I didn't give you the time of day to talk serious ball, mostly to reiterate that you're a fukking idiot. Continue on.
Answer the question, was Lebron at his peak in 2011 yes or no

[SATAN]

Nah I'm not doing this with you. Lebron was 8 years into the league in 2011 and and already won 2 MVPs. He was more than capable of winning in 2011.

He couldn't be bothered. Much like Jordan's retirement campaigns.

[ImKobe]

Do you think Curry’s first two Finals are better than LeBron’s? Someone said that before but I do not know if it’s true.

Easily better bro. He had decent averages in 2015 and averaged 10+ ppg on 70+%TS in 4th quarters of that series, went off in the 3 straight wins to beat the Cavs. He was efficient from 3 in 2016 and showed up in a couple games at least, Lebron was all-time bad for a 1st option in 2007 & 2011, Curry was sub-par but not as bad.


21/8/8 off 48% with elite defense > 25/6/5 off 40% with average defense

92 Pippen > peak Drexler

Drexler was not an average defensive player, he was actually really good on that side of the court.

[Manny98]

Drexler was not an average defensive player, he was actually really good on that side of the court.

Zero Defensive teams say otherwise

[Smoke117]

Easily better bro. He had decent averages in 2015 and averaged 10+ ppg on 70+%TS in 4th quarters of that series, went off in the 3 straight wins to beat the Cavs. He was efficient from 3 in 2016 and showed up in a couple games at least, Lebron was all-time bad for a 1st option in 2007 & 2011, Curry was sub-par but not as bad.



Drexler was not an average defensive player, he was actually really good on that side of the court.

Not really. He was decent, but nothing special. Kind of like Kobe.

[ImKobe]

Zero Defensive teams say otherwise

I thought defensive teams were meaningless? They matter now? All the defensive metrics say that he's good on that side of the court. Portland had a top 5 defense in the early 90s and Clyde was always among the best in DRTG on those teams. He was good.

[fourkicks44]

Damn, Glide went up against three of basically the best on ball defenders ever.

LeBron struggles with old plumbers in Kidd, JJ Barea, and Terry.

When it's all said and done, Sonny...

Who doesn't rate Kidd ahead of Glyde in their all time rankings?

[RogueBorg]

26 is not a baby :oldlol:

Ouch

[Roundball_Rock]

Here is some analysis on Drexler germane to this discussion (he has Drexler 39th all-time, right in front of Ray Allen and behind McHale):


As Drexler emerged (from 1986-89), the Blazer’s offense was consistently 2 to 4 points ahead of the league (peaking in 1988 at +3.9), but the defense hovered at or below average. After a roster infusion of young athletes and a coaching change (Rick Adelman), the new Blazers emerged defensively in 1990, posting defensive efficiencies 3 to 4 points ahead of the league until 1993. From 1990-93, the Blazers played between a 61 to 63 win pace (7.4 to 8.3 SRS), strong on both sides of the ball. Drexler and Porter co-captained the offense as the secondary players provided additional scoring and athletic defense.

The regression studies of Drexler’s overall game-level impact place him in the top-30 historically (+5.1). But his impact on some of those teams was questionable. In 1993, he missed 26 games and the Blazers played at the exact same 51-win pace without him. In ’94, Portland again played at the same pace (49-win clip) in 14 games without Drexler. His Augmented plus-minus (AuPM) in 1994 was 79th in the league (+1.9), although he turned in better finishes in 1996 (12th) and in APM in ’97 (22nd) at around +4 per game. The ’95 Blazers also had one of the strangest results in league history, playing at a ridiculous 67-win pace with Drexler (10.1 SRS) in 32 full-strength games, and then trading him to Houston as if things weren’t going well!

Overall, his mixed signals imply inconsistency or some fit issues, and I peg his peak somewhere in between the big-value metrics and the aforementioned low points. Some of his defensive shortcomings bring his value on that end close to neutral while his offense never crested too high either — notice he’s closer to the second notch on the scaled Big 3 numbers above, which is medium-level scoring and efficiency for an offensive centerpiece that lags behind other non-megastars like Ray Allen (see above) and Manu Ginobili. Like Allen, Drexler logged a dozen All-Star level seasons in my book, enough for this spot.

https://backpicks.com/2018/03/08/goat-36-40/#Drexler

https://backpicks.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Drexler-seasonal-valuations.png

[StrongLurk]

LeBron was still a baby in his 1st two finals whilst Drexler was in his absolute prime

LeBron was playing finals games on the biggest stage at the same age MJ was getting spanked in the 1st round :roll:

Wow what a fuking loser.

The irony is that making a pathetic excuse like this for Lebron just confirms even more that he isn't GOAT.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Looking at the stats and going by the opponent, its Clyde.

But he never went against Rodman in the finals.

[Hey Yo]

26 years old in 2011 isn't a "baby"

And he was 22 in 07', so that's older than FMVP Magic (20), and about the same age as MJ when he averaged 44/6/6 against the 86' Celtics and their #1 defense
Magic won FMVP by default and Jamaal Wilkes put up 37-10 and was LA's leading scorer until Magic was repeatedly sent to the line at the end of the game.





You needed a juggernaut with numerous HOF's to win the 80's East - weak teams like 09' Magic, 07' Cavs, 03' Nets or 01' Sixers wouldn't make it in the 80's.. so lebron formed a strong team in a conference that weak teams were rountinely winning, hence the "Finals streak" (completely manufactured resume)
Most guys you call HOF'ers weren't HOF'ers yet when MJ played against them.

Not HOF'ers in 86 if they quit before the playoffs started.
McHale
Parrish
Walton ( a HOF'er, but way past his prime)

Detroit 1987-88-89
Other than Thomas and Dantley (just 87 and 88 for AD) nobody on the team in those years were already considered HOF'ers.

[Roundball_Rock]

Magic won FMVP by default

Magic actually lost the FMVP vote (Kareem won) but votes were changed under pressure from CBS (which was revealed years later but one of the voters on the panel) because giving the award to a player live on TV was more important to CBS than giving the award to the actual FMVP. Now you have people 40 years later going on and on about "Magic was the FMVP!".

A huge asterisk. It would be like winning the silver medal and then having scores changed for PR purposes to give you the gold. No one would take that seriously so why do we act like Magic's FMVP was legit?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

But he never went against Rodman in the finals.

I'll rephrase that. Drexler never went against that trio in the finals. At any rate, the comp and numbers are obviously in his favor.

Glide was underrated by ESPN's recent list. I like Dominique better. And Miller probably had more 'clutch' moments. Don't think they did enough to be greater than Drexler though - who was better on both ends and more consistent at getting shots up.

[PoutinPippin]

Pippen outplayed Drexler in '92.
Yea, thanks to Jordan’s defense :oldlol:

[Manny98]

Here is some analysis on Drexler germane to this discussion (he has Drexler 39th all-time, right in front of Ray Allen and behind McHale):



https://backpicks.com/2018/03/08/goat-36-40/#Drexler

https://backpicks.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Drexler-seasonal-valuations.png
I was being generous when I called him an average defender:lol

And here we have ImKobe and 3ball acting like he was Kawhi Leonard

[Roundball_Rock]

And here we have ImKobe and 3ball acting like he was Kawhi Leonard

:lol

These guys make everyone MJ played against look 10 feet tall. Drexler was a great player but he made all-NBA 1st team exactly once (as a comparison, Pippen, who the same people say sucked, made 3 in the same era), was a real MVP candidate once (2nd in 92', had another 5th place finish but was not a real threat to win) despite being "the man" on a team from when he emerged as a star (and then superstar) after a couple seasons to 95' when he was traded to Houston.

[3ball]

I was being generous when I called him an average defender:lol

And here we have ImKobe and 3ball acting like he was Kawhi Leonard

Those are fake stats and graphs... By now everyone should know the info we have available and the stuff we don't

Drexler basically matched Pippen in steals and blocks while having better team defenses despite less offensive help

That reveals a lot more about Drexler's defensive capability than fake stats from backpicks

[Roundball_Rock]

Who are you going to believe? 3ball or analysis from Backpicks?

Drexler never made all-D and they are talking about him being on par with a GOAT defender. Unreal. Jordanstan is a weird place. :lol

[3ball]

Who are you going to believe? 3ball or analysis from Backpicks?

Drexler never made all-D and they are talking about him being on par with a GOAT defender. Unreal. Jordanstan is a weird place. :lol

Show me the source for backpicks' play-by-play data that they use for their 90's stats

It's a fact that we only have this info for 97-onwards.. so how does backpicks have graphs showing that data??? It's obviously fake!!!... Some of their graphs plot whether guys made a good pass or not.. what?

[Roundball_Rock]

They explain all the scouting reports, numbers and data on the site, including the passing grades.

Drexler has never been touted as this great defender--and here it is being done by people who all happen to be fans of the same retired player (not Drexler fans :lol ). It is obvious what is going on.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Shawn Marion and Stevenson guarded LeBron most and the Mavs employed a much more sophisticated zone defense than what Clyde faced. Chandler was the best defender in the league that season, and Marion is an all time great defender

I love how you blatantly lie

[eliteballer]

The Glyde no question.

[3ball]

They explain all the scouting reports, numbers and data on the site, including the passing grades.

Drexler has never been touted as this great defender--and here it is being done by people who all happen to be fans of the same retired player (not Drexler fans :lol ). It is obvious what is going on.

Show me their source for the 90's play-by-play data or their Drexler defensive data is false

Also, backpicks says MJ is goat if not for his lesser longevity from missing 3 seasons (86', 94', 95)... This is exactly what they said.. they only rate Kareem and lebron higher due to longevity because mj misses seasons.. so why keep citing their report?

I rank lebron outside the top 10 for his losing style that needs 2 ready-made perennia all-stars to win, actually still mostly lose)... It's pathetic

[Roundball_Rock]

Also, backpicks says MJ is goat if not for his lesser longevity from missing 3 seasons (86', 94', 95)... This is exactly what they said.. they only rate Kareem and lebron higher due to longevity because mj misses seasons.. so why keep citing their report?

You don't have to agree with every word in a report to find value in it.

The reason I have KAJ>MJ is longevity. If you are comparing their best 10 years it is a tie to me. So similar thinking to Backpicks.

[3ball]

You don't have to agree with every word in a report to find value in it.

The reason I have KAJ>MJ is longevity. If you are comparing their best 10 years it is a tie to me[. So similar thinking to Backpicks.


Backpicks:



"If MJ’s injured seasons followed his valuations curve, he would have a strong argument for No. 1, and if his hypothetical 1994 season followed the curve, he would likely be No. 1 on this list."


^^^ that's it - MJ is backpicks' goat if he doesn't retire.

Now stop twisting the facts..




You don't have to agree with every word in a report to find value in it.

The reason I have KAJ>MJ is longevity. If you are comparing their best 10 years it is a tie to me[. So similar thinking to Backpicks.

playing at a LESSER rate for longer can never be an argument for goat, so backpicks is dumb like everyone else...

Again, backpicks and most media lack knowledge about basketball, so they don't consider how skillset affects brand of ball

ball-dominant brands of ball usually fall short of championship caliber, so they don't provide the best long-run championship odds... accordingly, no ball-dominator can be ahead skillsets that allow the best brands (ball movement systems), highest team ceilings and therefore the best long-run championship odds..

that's why lebron isn't in my top 10 - other skillsets provided better brand/higher team ceiling and therefore better long-run championship odds




You don't have to agree with every word in a report to find value in it.

The reason I have KAJ>MJ is longevity. If you are comparing their best 10 years it is a tie to me. So similar thinking to Backpicks.
The goat isn't someone that played at a LESSER level for longer

the goat is someone that played at the best level that's ever been played - only jordan has that performance and stats (goat rate of production stats, aka BPM, PER, PPG, WS/48, VORP seasons)

Furthermore, Kareem's best 10 years are mostly regular season in the 70's when he was losing, where you say MJ matches him... And MJ destroys him in playoff and championship performance, so MJ destroys kareem.. he has zero case and he was never considered for goat from 1993-2017 until lebron media needed ways to dilute mj's goat career

Carry on




You don't have to agree with every word in a report to find value in it.

The reason I have KAJ>MJ is longevity. If you are comparing their best 10 years it is a tie to me[. So similar thinking to Backpicks.

Lebron's usage deficit meant that MJ used about 3 more possessions per game, at higher efficiency per possession (118 to 116 ortg)

Wouldn't lebron win a lot more close games if he was using an extra 3 possessions a game at better efficiency?.. many games are decided by 1 possession and MJ was using 3 more possessions at higher efficiency

That's why mj is goat - he used more possessions at better efficiency than any wing ever.. and btw, there's many spots where MJ's usage was 10 points higher, which would mean he used about 20 more possessions

[Rico2016]

And here comes the decimation...Ready?

LeBron led the entire league in playoff win shares in 2007. In fact he has accomplished this feat 9 times in his career (NBA record). Drexler has never done such a thing :(

[Rico2016]

Backpicks:



"If MJ’s injured seasons followed his valuations curve, he would have a strong argument for No. 1, and if his hypothetical 1994 season followed the curve, he would likely be No. 1 on this list."


^^^ that's it - MJ is backpicks' goat if he doesn't retire.

Now stop twisting the facts..





playing at a LESSER rate for longer can never be an argument for goat, so backpicks is dumb like everyone else...

Again, backpicks and most media lack knowledge about basketball, so they don't consider how skillset affects brand of ball

ball-dominant brands of ball usually fall short of championship caliber, so they don't provide the best long-run championship odds... accordingly, no ball-dominator can be ahead skillsets that allow the best brands (ball movement systems), highest team ceilings and therefore the best long-run championship odds..

that's why lebron isn't in my top 10 - other skillsets provided better brand/higher team ceiling and therefore better long-run championship odds




The goat isn't someone that played at a LESSER level for longer

the goat is someone that played at the best level that's ever been played - only jordan has that performance and stats (goat rate of production stats, aka BPM, PER, PPG, WS/48, VORP seasons)

Furthermore, Kareem's best 10 years are mostly regular season in the 70's when he was losing, where you say MJ matches him... And MJ destroys him in playoff and championship performance, so MJ destroys kareem.. he has zero case and he was never considered for goat from 1993-2017 until lebron media needed ways to dilute mj's goat career

Carry on





Lebron's usage deficit meant that MJ used about 3 more possessions per game, at higher efficiency per possession (118 to 116 ortg)

Wouldn't lebron win a lot more close games if he was using an extra 3 possessions a game at better efficiency?.. many games are decided by 1 possession and MJ was using 3 more possessions at higher efficiency

That's why mj is goat - he used more possessions at better efficiency than any wing ever.. and btw, there's many spots where MJ's usage was 10 points higher, which would mean he used about 20 more possessions

How did all of MJ's scoring do during his 1st 3 playoffs? You're going to be in for a surprise soon...

[3ball]

How did all of MJ's scoring do during his 1st 3 playoffs? You're going to be in for a surprise soon...

You needed a juggernaut with multiple HOF's to win the 80"s East - weak teams like the 09' Magic, 07' Cavs, 03' Nets or 01' Sixers wouldn't make it.. lebron simply formed a strong team in a conference that weak teams were routinely winning, hence the Finals streak (manufactured resume)

Regarding 1-9 - MJ was unlucky that his 30-40 win teams made the playoffs as 8 seeds, while lebron's avoided the 8 vs 1 matchup with his weaker teams in 04', 05', and 19'.. lebron was lucky that he only made the playoffs with high seeds/good teams and therefore easy 1st round matchups

[Rico2016]

You needed a juggernaut with multiple HOF's to win the 80"s East - weak teams like the 09' Magic, 07' Cavs, 03' Nets or 01' Sixers wouldn't make it.. lebron simply formed a strong team in a conference that weak teams were routinely winning, hence the Finals streak (manufactured resume)

Regarding 1-9 - MJ was unlucky that his 30-40 win teams made the playoffs as 8 seeds, while lebron's avoided the 8 vs 1 matchup with his weaker teams in 04', 05', and 19'.. lebron was lucky that he only made the playoffs with high seeds/good teams and therefore easy 1st round matchups

MJ learned the LeBron way and finally grabbed some chips. Scoring 36 a game was cute but he averaged that for 6 years and has a 1-9 to show for and zero chips.
Then after MJ learned the LBJ way and scaled his scoring down to 32 a game he magically won 6 times. The More You Know.

[3ball]

MJ learned the LeBron way and finally grabbed some chips. Scoring 36 a game was cute but he averaged that for 6 years and has a 1-9 to show for and zero chips.
Then after MJ learned the LBJ way and scaled his scoring down to 32 a game he magically won 6 times. The More You Know.
MJ averaged 35 for the 93' run including 41 in the Finals

And when did lebron average 32 on a championship run?

Only MJ did that as a standard.. if lebron could do it, he'd have more rings

[Roundball_Rock]

MJ learned the LeBron way and finally grabbed some chips. Scoring 36 a game was cute but he averaged that for 6 years and has a 1-9 to show for and zero chips.
Then after MJ learned the LBJ way and scaled his scoring down to 32 a game he magically won 6 times. The More You Know.

He accepted going to 32 when Jackson convinced him to score less in part because MJ calculated that if he scored 8 per quarter that would equal 32 and still be enough for a scoring title. I noticed that didn't make the "documentary"...

[PoutinPippin]

He accepted going to 32 when Jackson convinced him to score less in part because MJ calculated that if he scored 8 per quarter that would equal 32 and still be enough for a scoring title. I noticed that didn't make the "documentary"...
Someone's read a lot of Jordan books. Also, what relevance would it have in a 10 hour documentary covering Jordan, the main reason for the Bulls Dynasty of the 90's that started in 1985 ... and had so much ground to cover? Why are you still moaning and having a tampon about this documentary? :lol

[deathawaitu]

LeBron tried to learned from Jordan to be an alpha male but failed miserably

Instead LeBron went back to his roots/genes and be a beta dog like his parents and gave his manhood to Jones who helped LeBron win three chips. Once jones left, LeBron went back to be a failure :(

1-12 without the great Jones in the finals :(