Lebron had 6, 40 point games over 2 ECF series in 2009 and 2018.

[Docs Orders]

Both against ranked #1 in Defense in the league

To put that into perspective, MJ had 6, 40 point ECF games in his entire career (45 games)

[LostCause]

Now do the Finals

[LAmbruh]

Both against ranked #1 in Defense in the league

To put that into perspective, MJ had 6, 40 point ECF games in his entire career (45 games)

Best pressure player of all time vs GOAT dynasties :applause:

2018 NBA Finals vs waves of Iggy, Dray, Durant, Klay

51 Pts, 8 Ast, 8 Reb



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4fnnKF1Axg

[Axe]

Has yet to play the postseason in a laker uniform.

[3ball]

Stan Van Gundy said they let him get 40

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?466601-SVG-We-let-Lebron-play-1on1-in-the-09-series-we-were-fine-giving-him-points-stats


It wasn't a devastating 40 worth doubling - it didn't lift teammates like MJ or Kobe - and not doubling lebron made it easier to rebound, according to coaches (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=G2Xz4K42gXM&t=03m11s)

[Monta Ellis MVP]

Stan Van Gundy said they let him get 40

His 40 wasn't worth doubling because the long-dribbling didn't lift teammates like Kobe or MJ

And not double-teaming helps a defense's defensive rebounding, according to coaches (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=G2Xz4K42gXM&t=03m11s)

I was always wondering why they never double teamed him. That is an interesting coaching strategy. It worked though.

[theman93]

Best pressure player of all time vs GOAT dynasties :applause:

2018 NBA Finals vs waves of Iggy, Dray, Durant, Klay

51 Pts, 8 Ast, 8 Reb



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4fnnKF1Axg

0/4, 2 points, 0 assists, -10 in OT.

[Axe]

0/4, 2 points, 0 assists, -10 in OT.
He didn't have to do any of this if smith didn't bounce like shit. 😂

[scuzzy]

goat shit

[3ball]

I was always wondering why they never double teamed him. That is an interesting coaching strategy. It worked though.

The game isn't played on paper and humans aren't robots - there are ebbs and flows to every game and shifts in momentum.

A couple shots in a row by the star can galvanize a team - but this doesn't require a double because the defender can contest... But what if the defender WAS contesting? Do you just go by the numbers and tell the defender to keep contesting??..

Is that realistic??.. can you really look at your team and say "okay guys, I know we just gave up an 8 point run by not doubling, so now his teammates and the crowd is roaring.. the 3 point deficit is now 11 in this critical juncture...... But don't worry guys... Not doubling was the right play... Chin up - go out there and make up the deficit and turn the heavy tide (that could've been avoided)"

In the heat of the game, many coaches and players prefer doubling rather then let a great player get comfortable and get his team and the crowd going... When a 3 point game gets to 11 with all the momentum going the other way, it's hard to overcome that.

So while drivers can be met at the rim with multiple defenders, coaches like to double hot jumpshooters that are making contested shots (where 1 defender isn't enough and it's time to get the ball out of their hands before the whole team gets going).

If this doesn't sound like lebron, you're right - his jumper rarely gets hot, and he AVOIDS contested jumpers (94% of his shots outside of 10 feet were either "open" or "wide open" according to NBA.com, compared to 66-83% for KD/kawhi/harden - so they're taking 3 to 6 times more contested jumpers than bron)..

in addition to galvanizing the crowd and teammates, something else happens when a guy is hitting jumpers - the court opens up - as the defense reacts to the "hot" player, teammates take advantage by cutting and moving to open spots created by the reaction

It sounds like the only guys worth doubling are the hot jumpshooters that can get the whole team going - every game, Kobe/MJ would hit a couple jumpers in a row and force the coach to call a timeout.. their quick-hitter jumpshooting kept the defense on their toes to close out and rotate with double-teams...

So MJ/Kobe's aggressive jumpshooting and ability to command doubles wore teams down defensively and left them less capacity for offense... Otoh, Lebron's passive-shooting/no double-team style and long dribbles don't wear down teams like the ball movement he faces at the championship level, so opponents are always fresher with more capacity to go off offensively.. it looks like lebron's team is playing horrific defense for the first time all year, but it's really just bron-ball losing the attrition battle - aka the best defense is a good offense

If you were a coach, what would you rather defend - ball movement that comes from doubling, or one player holding the ball?.. only a devastating scorer could make you prefer doubling and facing ball movement

Ultimately, good teams don't get run over by that brand of ball (one guy making all the plays)... it's like a boxer that beats all the weak guys by running them over, but needs technique and sophistication to beat the good fighters

[light]

Now do the Finals

Jordan has 6 forty point games in 6 Finals. 4 of them coming in one series.
LeBron has 7 forty point games in his last 4 Finals.

What difference does it make though? Both guys could get 40 whenever they wanted.

[3ball]

Jordan has 6 forty point games in 6 Finals. 4 of them coming in one series.
LeBron has 7 forty point games in his last 4 Finals.

What difference does it make though? Both guys could get 40 whenever they wanted.

Jordan had a lot more 40-point playoff games than lebron

Jordan had 40 points once every 4.5 playoff games, compared to 1 in 9 for Lebron

Jordan averaged 5 more point in the playoffs with better efficiency per possesion

[AirBonner]

3ball writing essays op wins again

[Roundball_Rock]

Jordan stans always bring up scoring (the only category they appear to think exists). How about the other big categories? I wonder why we never hear about them?

10+ rebound playoff games: LeBron 94, Jordan 21
10+ assist playoff games: LeBron 41, Jordan 20

[3ball]

Jordan stans always bring up scoring (the only category they appear to think exists). How about the other big categories? I wonder why we never hear about them?

10+ rebound playoff games: LeBron 94, Jordan 21
10+ assist playoff games: LeBron 41, Jordan 20

MJ scoring 20 more than Pippen > lebron getting 2 reb and assist more than his teammates

The scoreboard is the only thing that matters, so mj's scoring is king, while lebron needed equal-scoring and usage teammates to win (shared load, not carry-job)

And we already know that lebron needed 20 ppg sidekick to beat a top 5 SRS team (no carry jobs vs good teams)




Jordan stans always bring up scoring (the only category they appear to think exists). How about the other big categories? I wonder why we never hear about them?

10+ rebound playoff games: LeBron 94, Jordan 21
10+ assist playoff games: LeBron 41, Jordan 20

Lebron's usage deficit meant that MJ used about 3 more possessions per game, at higher efficiency per possession (118 to 116 ortg)

Wouldn't lebron win a lot more close games if he was using an extra 3 possessions a game at better efficiency?.. many games are decided by 1 possession and MJ was using 3 more possessions at higher efficiency

That's why mj is goat - he used more possessions at better efficiency than any wing ever.. and btw, there's many spots where MJ's usage was 10 points higher, which would mean he used about 20 more possessions

[Smoke117]

MJ scoring 20 more than Pippen > lebron getting 2 reb and assist more than his teammates

The scoreboard is the only thing that matters, so mj's scoring is king, while lebron needed equal-scoring and usage teammates to win (shared load, not carry-job)

And we already know that lebron needed 20 ppg sidekick to beat a top 5 SRS team (no carry jobs vs good teams)





Lebron's usage deficit meant that MJ used about 3 more possessions per game, at higher efficiency per possession (118 to 116 ortg)

Wouldn't lebron win a lot more close games if he was using an extra 3 possessions a game at better efficiency?.. many games are decided by 1 possession and MJ was using 3 more possessions at higher efficiency

That's why mj is goat - he used more possessions at better efficiency than any wing ever.. and btw, there's many spots where MJ's usage was 10 points higher, which would mean he used about 20 more possessions

**** your pathetic. You realize your life long crush in Jordan would want nothing to do with you, right? You are a walking and talking do not come within 50 feet of said person insane individual, you ****ing stupid moppet. What the **** is wrong with you? Jesus christ. Take your pills and be normal you ****ing asshole!

[Roundball_Rock]

MJ stans: "90's were a super tough defensive era."
MJ stans: "Kyrie scored X, Wade scored Y--compare that to 90's scoring..."

As usual, MJ stans want it both ways.


The scoreboard is the only thing that matters, so mj's scoring is king, while lebron needed equal-scoring and usage teammates to win (shared load, not carry-job)

And we already know that lebron needed 20 ppg sidekick

Playoff Scoring

LeBron 11'-14': 26.9
Wade 11'-14': 20.3
LeBron 15'-17': 29.6 (34.0 in 18')
Irving 15'-17': 23.9

Wade (barely) cleared 20 PPG but in a much easier defensive era. That same Wade in the 90's would be scoring around 17 PPG. Irving was at 23.9 PPG, but same concept. Shave a few points off for the higher scoring era.

[3ball]

MJ stans: "90's were a super tough defensive era."
MJ stans: "Kyrie scored X, Wade scored Y--compare that to 90's scoring..."

As usual, MJ stans want it both ways.



Playoff Scoring

LeBron 11'-14': 26.9
Wade 11'-14': 20.3
LeBron 15'-17': 29.6 (34.0 in 18')
Irving 15'-17': 23.9

Wade (barely) cleared 20 PPG but in a much easier defensive era. That same Wade in the 90's would be scoring around 17 PPG. Irving was at 23.9 PPG, but same concept. Shave a few points off for the higher scoring era.



- MJ won every Finals by scoring 10-20 more than than Pippen while dominating the usage distribution..

- Lebron won Finals by averaging 2 to 5 more than his sidekick with near equal-usage...


^^^ Night and day... 2-5 versus 10-20..

So MJ carried the bulls while lebron shared the load with an equal scoring partner

And it's cute that you posted 6-point gap over Wade and Kyrie, while MJ had 22 point advantage over Pippen in the 89' Playoffs, and 18 in 1990... During the championship years, it was between 11 and 16

[Roundball_Rock]

Jordan takes more shots than anyone in history. We can't with a straight face compare his teammate's scoring with other teams. Anyone playing with MJ would see a decline in scoring. Wade scored 20 PPG in a weaker defensive era. Put him in the 90's and 11'-14' Wade is around 17 PPG. Put him next to MJ taking 25+ shots a game and it gets even worse.

We have a real world example of what happens when MJ joins a team:

Bulls' Scoring With/Without MJ in 95'

Pippen without MJ: 21.9*/8.4/5.1 18.7 Gamescore
Pippen with MJ: 19.7/6.9/5.6 16.7 Gamescore

Kukoc without MJ: 16.4/5.5/4.6 14.1 GS
Kukoc with MJ: 13.0/5.3/4.4 11.5 GS

Armstrong without MJ: 14.7/2.3/3.2 10.5 GS
Armstrong with MJ: 11.4/2.1/2.1 9.4

So the Bulls' top 3 scorers go from 53.0 PPG without MJ to 44.1 PPG with him. That is a large decline but with MJ consuming 24 FGA and 33% usage the others will pay a price.

*10th in scoring before MJ returned. For context, Ewing was 6th at 23.9, Barkley 7th at 23.0, Drexler scored 21.8, Penny 20.9, Payton 20.6, Hill 19.9, Miller 19.6, Kemp 18.7 in that same season. All players who MJ stans say were great scorers while Pippen was a "mediocre" scorer.

[Docs Orders]

Jordan stans always bring up scoring (the only category they appear to think exists). How about the other big categories? I wonder why we never hear about them?

10+ rebound playoff games: LeBron 94, Jordan 21
10+ assist playoff games: LeBron 41, Jordan 20

Damn

[ELITEpower23]

Damn

Damm is right.

[deathawaitu]

Let’s wait and see what he does in the West.

But he most likely will never make it to the postseason in the west if AD doesn’t resign :(

Best player in the East can’t cut it in the West

[Monta Ellis MVP]

The game isn't played on paper and humans aren't robots - there are ebbs and flows to every game and shifts in momentum.

A couple shots in a row by the star can galvanize a team - but this doesn't require a double because the defender can contest... But what if the defender WAS contesting? Do you just go by the numbers and tell the defender to keep contesting??

Is that realistic??.. can you really look at your team and say "okay guys, I know we just gave up an 8 point run by not doubling, so now his teammates and the crowd is roaring.. the 3 point deficit is now 11 in this critical juncture...... But don't worry guys... Not doubling was the right play... Chin up - go out there and make up the deficit and turn the heavy ti

In the heat of the game, many coaches and players prefer doubling rather then let a great player get comfortable and get his team and the crowd going... When a 3 point game gets to 11 with all the momentum going the other way, it's hard to overcome that.

So while drivers can be met at the rim with multiple defenders, coaches like to double hot jumpshooters that are making contested shots (where 1 defender isn't enough and it's time to get the ball out of their hands before the whole team gets going)

If this doesn't sound like lebron, you're right - his jumper rarely gets hot, and he AVOIDS contested jumpers (94% of his shots outside of 10 feet were either "open" or "wide open" according to NBA.com, compared to 66-83% for KD/kawhi/harden - so they're taking 3 to 6 times more contested jumpers than bron)..

in addition to galvanizing the crowd and teammates, something else happens when a guy is hitting jumpers - the court opens up - as the defense reacts to the "hot" player, teammates take advantage by cutting and moving to open spots created by the reaction

It sounds like the only guys worth doubling are the hot jumpshooters that can get the whole team going - every game, Kobe/MJ would hit a couple jumpers in a row and force the coach to call a timeout.. their quick-hitter jumpshooting kept the defense on their toes to close out and rotate with double-teams

So MJ/Kobe's aggressive jumpshooting and ability to command doubles wore teams down defensively and left them less capacity for offense. Otoh, Lebron's passive-shooting/no double-team style and long dribbles don't wear down teams like the ball movement he faces at the championship level, so opponents are always fresher with more capacity to go off offensively.. it looks like lebron's team is playing horrific defense for the first time all year, but it's really just bron-ball losing the attrition battle - aka the best defense offense



Ultimately, good teams don't get run over by that brand of ball (one guy making all the plays)... it's like a boxer that beats all the weak guys by running them over, but needs technique and sophistication to beat the good

I’m starting to understand this now. I notice Michael Jordan and other greats will go through effort to get their teammates involved in the game early on. Once they establish the pace and rhythm within the team they start being more assertive. Once the 4th quarter comes it is time to takeover. This is how championships are won. LeBron piles on stats in the first portions of the game but tends to run out of gas and tighten up during crunch time. I am still a big LeBron fan. I have learned a lot from the Jordan documentary. I’m watching it again right now.

[AirBonner]

I’m starting to understand this now. I notice Michael Jordan and other greats will go through effort to get their teammates involved in the game early on. Once they establish the pace and rhythm within the team they start being more assertive. Once the 4th quarter comes it is time to takeover. This is how championships are won. LeBron piles on stats in the first portions of the game but tends to run out of gas and tighten up during crunch time. I am still a big LeBron fan. I have learned a lot from the Jordan documentary. I’m watching it again right now.

Curry still has no fmvps

[Docs Orders]

Curry still has no fmvps

Damn

[SATAN]

**** your pathetic. You realize your life long crush in Jordan would want nothing to do with you, right? You are a walking and talking do not come within 50 feet of said person insane individual, you ****ing stupid moppet. What the **** is wrong with you? Jesus christ. Take your pills and be normal you ****ing asshole!

:oldlol:

[FultzNationRISE]

Simple and plain, nobody puts up numbers like that without a really hung peenis.

Lebrons got it goin on.

[Axe]

MJ scoring 20 more than Pippen > lebron getting 2 reb and assist more than his teammates

The scoreboard is the only thing that matters, so mj's scoring is king, while lebron needed equal-scoring and usage teammates to win (shared load, not carry-job)

And we already know that lebron needed 20 ppg sidekick to beat a top 5 SRS team (no carry jobs vs good teams)





Lebron's usage deficit meant that MJ used about 3 more possessions per game, at higher efficiency per possession (118 to 116 ortg)

Wouldn't lebron win a lot more close games if he was using an extra 3 possessions a game at better efficiency?.. many games are decided by 1 possession and MJ was using 3 more possessions at higher efficiency

That's why mj is goat - he used more possessions at better efficiency than any wing ever.. and btw, there's many spots where MJ's usage was 10 points higher, which would mean he used about 20 more possessions
You triggering your shitty counterpart once again.

[Cyrus334]

Jordan stans always bring up scoring (the only category they appear to think exists). How about the other big categories? I wonder why we never hear about them?

10+ rebound playoff games: LeBron 94, Jordan 21
10+ assist playoff games: LeBron 41, Jordan 20

The assists I understand and that's something Lebron definitely has over Jordan but it's pretty silly to bring up rebounds when comparing a guard and a forward, especially when that guard played in an era where centers/forwards were more traditional and packed the paint for rebounds.

[ELITEpower23]

Jordan stans always bring up scoring (the only category they appear to think exists). How about the other big categories? I wonder why we never hear about them?

10+ rebound playoff games: LeBron 94, Jordan 21
10+ assist playoff games: LeBron 41, Jordan 20

Good find. Good mention. Damn.

[ELITEpower23]

The the best MJ cat. (point scoring) has only a slightly edge.

But the other cats LeBron has a bigly edge. And the teams LBJ beat are superior, and his cast was inferior. Remind us again why MJ is top 3 ?