Michael Jordan wanted the Bulls to draft Joe Wolf over Scottie Pippen in 1987

[Lebron23]

Joe wolf was his former teammate in North Carolina. Thank God the Bulls had a very good front office. Joe Wolf kinda looks like a 7 foot version of Poido123

[aceman]

Foreshadowing his executive career

[Roundball_Rock]

He wanted Smith in the Pippen slot and Wolf in the Grant slot. MJ is lucky players didn't have the power they do now. If Krause listened to him...

[1987_Lakers]

I still remember when MJ drafted Sean May in 2005 because he just led North Carolina to a championship, problem was May was an undersized center and overweight, didn't last long in the NBA.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Krause brought Scottie Pippen and the triangle offense to the NBA, you have to give him a lot of credit as a general manager.

Jordan on the other hand has brought in Kwame Brown and Adam Morrison.

The gap on Krause\Jordan on building teams is almost as big of a gap as their bodyfat percentage hahaha

[FireDavidKahn]

Thank god no one with an ounce of BBIQ ever listened to Jordan.

"Shut up and score"

[FireDavidKahn]

Krause brought Scottie Pippen and the triangle offense to the NBA, you have to give him a lot of credit as a general manager.

Jordan on the other hand has brought in Kwame Brown and Adam Morrison.

The gap on Krause\Jordan on building teams is almost as big of a gap as their bodyfat percentage hahaha

Krause should get an amazing amount of credit for building that team. He may have ended up being an idiot in the long run but without him the Bulls aren't winning 6 chips.

[FireDavidKahn]

I still remember when MJ drafted Sean May in 2005 because he just led North Carolina to a championship, problem was May was an undersized center and overweight, didn't last long in the NBA.

https://goheels.com/images/2018/9/25/May_Sean_2019_2019.jpg?width=300

[ralph_i_el]

MJ seems to not understand the types of players that are good in college and not good in the NBA.

[j3lademaster]

This is prime example that takes of players/explayers shouldn’t be the end all.

[Soundwave]

Nobody said you had to be a great GM to be a great player. Jordan's favoritisim of North Carolina players is well known.

That said back then no one had Scottie Pippen ranked that highly, Scottie Pippen himself said if someone told him a year earlier he'd be drafted top 5 he'd consider it a big joke.

It's the one great thing Krause did, but he also did a bunch of stupid things. You'll never convince me Cartwright for Oakley was a good trade. Even if they had to push Horace to center

C- Grant
PF - Oakley
SF - Pippen
SG - Jordan
PG - Paxson

Is still a better lineup. Jordan also wanted Danny Ainge, who was a legit good player and Krause basically refused to bring him on out of spite.

[Roundball_Rock]

That said back then no one had Scottie Pippen ranked that highly, Scottie Pippen himself said if someone told him a year earlier he'd be drafted top 5 he'd consider it a big joke.

This is another Jordanstan myth. He was the #5 pick and the Seattle trade was done precisely because Krause knew Sacramento (i.e., Bill Russell) was going to take him at #6. Cleveland was also interested in him and they picked before Chicago too.

Detroit "desperately" wanted to trade up to get Pippen because they projected Pippen to be a superstar.

Here are the receipts:


The Bulls have been trying desperately to move up from their No. 8 spot to draft Pippen. They are concerned that Sacramento at No. 6 or Cleveland at No. 7 would beat them to Pippen.

Teams tried positioning themselves to get a crack at Pippen.

''We tried desperately to move up to get him,'' said Detroit General Manager Jack McCloskey, whose Pistons don`t have a first-round pick. ''He is the most interesting and exciting player in the draft. If he doesn't go in the top 10, something`s wrong. I think he is going to be a superstar.''


https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1987-06-22-8702150881-story.html


"It'll take him a while to get the Central Arkansas out of him," says Cotton Fitzsimmons, director of player personnel for the Phoenix Suns, "but he's going to be a very, very good player."

https://vault.si.com/vault/1987/11/30/now-you-see-him-the-bulls-scottie-pippen-has-leaped-from-obscurity-to-become-a-top-nba-rookie


Second-best player in the game? Maybe. This was his emergence.

Krause says he was on the phone with Seattle for two days working a deal. The Bulls had the eighth pick. The SuperSonics had the fifth. Krause was terrified that the Sacramento Kings, picking sixth, would take Pippen. The deal was clinched at four o'clock in the morning the day of the draft.

https://vault.si.com/vault/1992/02/24/out-of-the-shadow-after-years-of-being-eclipsed-by-his-teammate-michael-jordan-the-chicago-bulls-scottie-pippen-has-stepped-into-the-limelight

Chuck Daly, like his GM, also projected Pippen as a superstar, which is in the Halberstam book (he knew because of Pippen Detroit's days were numbered, per the book).

Not exactly the Jordanstan myth of "no one" projected him to be good.

[Soundwave]

This is another Jordanstan myth. He was the #5 pick and the Seattle trade was done precisely because Krause knew Sacramento (i.e., Bill Russell) was going to take him at #6. Cleveland was also interested in him and they picked before Chicago too.

Detroit "desperately" wanted to trade up to get Pippen because they projected Pippen to be a superstar.

Here are the receipts:



https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1987-06-22-8702150881-story.html



https://vault.si.com/vault/1987/11/30/now-you-see-him-the-bulls-scottie-pippen-has-leaped-from-obscurity-to-become-a-top-nba-rookie



https://vault.si.com/vault/1992/02/24/out-of-the-shadow-after-years-of-being-eclipsed-by-his-teammate-michael-jordan-the-chicago-bulls-scottie-pippen-has-stepped-into-the-limelight

Chuck Daly, like his GM, also projected Pippen as a superstar, which is in the Halberstam book (he knew because of Pippen Detroit's days were numbered, per the book).

Not exactly the Jordanstan myth of "no one" projected him to be good.

Scottie Pippen himself says he would have thought it was a total joke if he was drafted in the top 5 a year prior, so take that up with Scottie. For a player to go from basically an unknown to a top 5 pick in an NBA draft in the span of less than a year is rare, how often does that happen?

If "everyone knew that" then Seattle doesn't make that trade in the first place.

Straight from the freaking TV broadcast of the draft: "That's right folkes, you probably have never heard of Scottie Pippen", shows at the time many people didn't know who he was. How often is that the case for a top 5 player in a draft.

[theballerFKA Ace]

Krause should get an amazing amount of credit for building that team. He may have ended up being an idiot in the long run but without him the Bulls aren't winning 6 chips.

He might have had 8 if he had drafted one of the many studs left on the board instead of Stacey King

[HBK_Kliq_2]

He might have had 8 if he had drafted one of the many studs left on the board instead of Stacey King

He should of drafted Divac and would of had him at center for 6 rings instead of Cartwright\Longely. He already had Horace so I guess that's why he didn't pick Kemp. Hardaway's style clashes with Jordan and the triangle offense. If your biggest mistake is missing out on Divac, oh well.

[theballerFKA Ace]

He should of drafted Divac and would of had him at center for 6 rings instead of Cartwright\Longely. He already had Horace so I guess that's why he didn't pick Kemp. Hardaway's style clashes with Jordan and the triangle offense. If your biggest mistake is missing out on Divac, oh well.

If you forgive him for Kemp and assume Hardaway wouldn't have adapted his game to fit Jordan and Pippen(Hardaway was a good defender too), they still could have taken Mookie Blaylock, and Nick Andersen would have feasted on 2nd units coming off the bench

[Soundwave]

I actually feel overall Krause is a somewhat mediocre GM, but he gets full marks for hitting a massive home run with the Pippen pick. That's fully on him.

But there were a lot of dumb decisions he made otherwise ... I read he didn't acquire Danny Ainge because Jordan wanted him and instead ended up with a far crappier player. Oakley for Cartwright was stupid. Picking Stacy King over Tim Hardaway and Mookie Blalock was stupid.

Krause is a mixed bag.

[theballerFKA Ace]

Picking Stacy King over Tim Hardaway and Mookie Blalock was stupid.



Besides
Kemp
Hardaway
Mook
Divac
Cliff Robinson

People always remember Nick Andersen for the 4 straight missed freethrows versus Houston but he was a hell of a player. He would have been fantastic off the bench

[Roundball_Rock]

No GM is going to bat 1.000. Krause nailed Pippen, Grant, Kukoc (29th pick), Armstrong (18th) who all played major roles on the title teams and also traded for Rodman. Look at all the other GM's of the era. What did other teams do after losing? Either nothing or tinkering. Krause went out and got a HOF player to fill their biggest weaknesses.

[Soundwave]

No GM is going to bat 1.000. Krause nailed Pippen, Grant, Kukoc (29th pick), Armstrong (18th) who all played major roles on the title teams and also traded for Rodman. Look at all the other GM's of the era. What did other teams do after losing? Either nothing or tinkering. Krause went out and got a HOF player to fill their biggest weaknesses.

He killed it in that 87 draft and for that he deserves big credit. That said ... he could have had Reggie Miller instead of Horace Grant.

I mean

C - who cares
PF - Oakley
SF - Miller
SG - Jordan
PG - Pippen

Is a lineup that starts to legitimately give Jordan the same type of help Magic and Bird enjoyed. That's way better than

C- Cartwright
PF - Grant
SF - Pippen
SG - Jordan
PG - Paxson

[theballerFKA Ace]

No GM is going to bat 1.000. Krause nailed Pippen, Grant, Kukoc (29th pick), Armstrong (18th) who all played major roles on the title teams and also traded for Rodman. Look at all the other GM's of the era. What did other teams do after losing? Either nothing or tinkering. Krause went out and got a HOF player to fill their biggest weaknesses.

Nobody is faulting Krause for taking Grant over Reggie Miller or Mark Jackson, or Kukoc over Antonio Davis or Cedric Ceballos. But that was a LOT of talent he left on the table in 89.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

I actually feel overall Krause is a somewhat mediocre GM, but he gets full marks for hitting a massive home run with the Pippen pick. That's fully on him.

But there were a lot of dumb decisions he made otherwise ... I read he didn't acquire Danny Ainge because Jordan wanted him and instead ended up with a far crappier player. Oakley for Cartwright was stupid. Picking Stacy King over Tim Hardaway and Mookie Blalock was stupid.

Krause is a mixed bag.

Doug Collins was telling Tex Winter to **** off with the triangle offense. This pissed Krause off and he fired Collins. The triangle offense would go on to win 11 championships. Krause has to get credit for bringing Tex Winter's system to the NBA, as well as believing in Phil Jackson.

The Cartwright trade allowed Horace Grant to play his natural position at the four.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

He killed it in that 87 draft and for that he deserves big credit. That said ... he could have had Reggie Miller instead of Horace Grant.

I mean

C - who cares
PF - Oakley
SF - Miller
SG - Jordan
PG - Pippen

Is a lineup that starts to legitimately give Jordan the same type of help Magic and Bird enjoyed. That's way better than

C- Cartwright
PF - Grant
SF - Pippen
SG - Jordan
PG - Paxson

Pippen\Reggie probably win the title in 1994, so I guess Krause actually saved Jordan's legacy from that perspective.

[aceman]

I actually feel overall Krause is a somewhat mediocre GM, but he gets full marks for hitting a massive home run with the Pippen pick. That's fully on him.

But there were a lot of dumb decisions he made otherwise ... I read he didn't acquire Danny Ainge because Jordan wanted him and instead ended up with a far crappier player. Oakley for Cartwright was stupid. Picking Stacy King over Tim Hardaway and Mookie Blalock was stupid.

Krause is a mixed bag.

Cartwright turned Bulls into contenders; made opposition centers work on defense, got them in foul trouble some Jordan could drive.

[Roundball_Rock]

Nobody is faulting Krause for taking Grant over Reggie Miller or Mark Jackson, or Kukoc over Antonio Davis or Cedric Ceballos. But that was a LOT of talent he left on the table in 89.

In retrospect but you can do that in any draft in hindsight. No one was clamoring for Ceballos in 1990. Miller was taken between Grant and Mugsy Bogues.

Take Miller for example. We always hear "Pippen wasn't expected to be good" (like we did earlier in the thread) but he was the 5th pick ahead of Johnson (7th) and Miller (11th). Besides, the Bulls already had a starting SG. Reggie Lewis went 22nd in the same draft and was considered on par with Reggie Miller in the early 90's. People weren't saying "wish we got Miller instead" in 1987.

Ceballos was the 48th pick, Davis 45th. Those are actual examples of players who weren't expected to be good. I don't think we can blame Krause when 47 and 44 other selections passed over them, including most teams doing so multiple times. Ceballos also had the same issue as Miller: they already were set at his position (SF).


That said ... he could have had Reggie Miller instead of Horace Grant.

I mean

C - who cares
PF - Oakley
SF - Miller
SG - Jordan
PG - Pippen

They weren't thinking of Pippen as a PG in 87'. That came down the road. They drafted him to be a SF and Jordan locked down SG.

[aceman]

He killed it in that 87 draft and for that he deserves big credit. That said ... he could have had Reggie Miller instead of Horace Grant.

I mean

C - who cares
PF - Oakley
SF - Miller
SG - Jordan
PG - Pippen

Is a lineup that starts to legitimately give Jordan the same type of help Magic and Bird enjoyed. That's way better than

C- Cartwright
PF - Grant
SF - Pippen
SG - Jordan
PG - Paxson

Unless Jordan passes ball Paxson performs same role as Miller

[Soundwave]

Cartwright turned Bulls into contenders; made opposition centers work on defense, got them in foul trouble some Jordan could drive.

I think this narrative is overrated

C- Grant
PF - Oakley
SF - Pippen
SG - Jordan
PG - Paxson

Is a better team ultimately. You can always find some 7 foot stiff to spell you 15-20 minutes a night in the vein of a Luc Longley if needed.

[oldtimer28]

I still remember when MJ drafted Sean May in 2005 because he just led North Carolina to a championship, problem was May was an undersized center and overweight, didn't last long in the NBA.


Didn't he have a hot girlfriend incidentally? Or was that someone else that was a high draft pick reach around this time?

[oldtimer28]

Didn't he have a hot girlfriend incidentally? Or was that someone else that was a high draft pick reach around this time?


Sorry, looked it up. Was thinking of Shelden Williams

[iamgine]

Could've gotten Karl Malone. Would Jordan - Malone combo works better than Jordan - Pippen - Grant combo? Would the Bulls won earlier with Malone?

[aceman]

Jerry's record is very good - even choices like Stacy King & Perdue were traded for important pieces.
I don't even mind Brad Sellers selection as showed an interest in versatile multi position player before Pippen & Kukoc

[Roundball_Rock]

Could've gotten Karl Malone. Would Jordan - Malone combo works better than Jordan - Pippen - Grant combo? Would the Bulls won earlier with Malone?

He is another example. Malone was the 13th pick. No one was saying "Damn, if only we drafted Malone!" on draft night. In retrospect of course he is the best pick and the Bulls with Jordan, Pippen, Malone probably would never lose once they hit their primes but no one knew Malone was going to be great. The picks right in front of him were Oakley, Ed Pinckey, Keith Lee, Kenny Green. Right behind him Alfrederick Hughes, Blair Rasmussen, Bill Wennington, and Uwe Blab.

That is what makes the Pippen "wasn't expected to be good" BS amusing and ironic. Pippen was highly coveted by teams drafting high and was the 5th pick. Guys like Malone, Miller, Drexler, Stockton to name a few were not top 10 picks.

[FireDavidKahn]

Could've gotten Karl Malone. Would Jordan - Malone combo works better than Jordan - Pippen - Grant combo? Would the Bulls won earlier with Malone?

Jordan's 24/7 in your face attitude with Malone?

LOL.

Either Jordan or Malone would end up killed as there is no way Malone would take that kind of shit.