Steve Nash is criminally underrated

[AirBonner]

Nash was:

Unquestionably the best PG in the league for a decade who led the league in assists 5 times

A two time MVP in an era with prime Duncan, Dirk, Kobe, and Garnett

One of the most efficient scorers in history, only 4 time member of 50/40/90 club and career TS% of .605(!!!)

The leader of an offense that was top 2 in the league for 9 years straight

[RRR3]

Nash was:

Unquestionably the best PG in the league for a decade who led the league in assists 5 times

A two time MVP in an era with prime Duncan, Dirk, Kobe, and Garnett

One of the most efficient scorers in history, only 4 time member of 40/50/90 club and career TS% of .605(!!!)

The leader of an offense that was top 2 in the league for 9 years straight
:biggums:

Nash the best PG in the league from 05-07, but CP3 passed him after that. That's 3 years, not 10.

[SouBeachTalents]

Was he really unquestionably the best PG for a decade? I could give him '05-'07 sure, but it was Kidd before that, then CP3 took his place starting in '08

[AirBonner]

:biggums:

Nash the best PG in the league from 05-07, but CP3 passed him after that. That's 3 years, not 10.

Nash’s impact goes beyond counting stats. Nash made scrubs look good while cp3 never really did that

[RRR3]

Nash’s impact goes beyond counting stats. Nash made scrubs look good while cp3 never really did that
Scrubs like Amar'e Stoudemire and Shawn Marion? Look at how much JJ Redick's career improved once he started playing with CP3.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Never went to the finals and his playoff advanced stats were never that impressive.

- Never higher then 5.2 BPM
- Never higher then .175 win shares per 48

He went over .20 win shares per 48 in four different regular seasons but failed to do it for one playoff run. His defense always held his teams back and let guys like Mike Bibby\Tony Parker have their way with him. On top of that, he failed to reach the finals with Dirk as well.

[Axe]

If nash was the best pg for the decade, then somehow he would have led the suns to at least a single finals appearance but sadly, that's not what happened back then.

[Whoah10115]

:biggums:

Nash the best PG in the league from 05-07, but CP3 passed him after that. That's 3 years, not 10.

04 not 05.

And just because Paul had better seasons 07-09 doesn't make him better. In 09/10 Nash was the best GUARD in the league in the regular season and took his team to the WCF...and not as good a team as they once were.

What Paul has over Nash in 10/11 is that he was playing on a good team and Nash was merely taking the Suns to the brink of being good. They still had maybe the best offense in the league.


But yes, he wasn't the best for a decade. Kidd was beastly in 05/06.

[RRR3]

04 not 05.

And just because Paul had better seasons 07-09 doesn't make him better. In 09/10 Nash was the best GUARD in the league in the regular season and took his team to the WCF...and not as good a team as they once were.

What Paul has over Nash in 10/11 is that he was playing on a good team and Nash was merely taking the Suns to the brink of being good. They still had maybe the best offense in the league.


But yes, he wasn't the best for a decade. Kidd was beastly in 05/06.
Nash was better than Kidd in 04?

[Whoah10115]

Nash was better than Kidd in 04?

I meant the season was 04/05. I was just being annoying.

[FKAri]

If nash was the best pg for the decade, then somehow he would have led the suns to at least a single finals appearance but sadly, that's not what happened back then.



Never went to the finals and his playoff advanced stats were never that impressive.

- Never higher then 5.2 BPM
- Never higher then .175 win shares per 48

He went over .20 win shares per 48 in four different regular seasons but failed to do it for one playoff run. His defense always held his teams back and let guys like Mike Bibby\Tony Parker have their way with him. On top of that, he failed to reach the finals with Dirk as well.

Nash did reach the Finals in 07 and led his team to a ring.

[Mask the Embiid]

He was the best pg for about 3 years in the mid 2000's.....Then Deron Williams had his 1 year in 07 or 08 (i forget).Then Chris Paul was the best til Steph took over in what 2014 or 2015?

Harden took over after that


Ben Simmons or Luka will probably be the best when his time is up



and if you call lebron a "pg" he's been the best "pg" the last 17 years (excluding that one year of curry in 2016)

[RRR3]

He was the best pg for about 3 years in the mid 2000's.....Then Deron Williams had his 1 year in 07 or 08 (i forget).Then Chris Paul was the best til Steph took over in what 2014 or 2015?

Harden took over after that


Ben Simmons or Luka will probably be the best when his time is up



and if you call lebron a "pg" he's been the best "pg" the last 17 years (excluding that one year of curry in 2016)
Deron was never the best PG wtf.

[MrFonzworth]

Deron was never the best PG wtf.

Yep Paul was always better.

[Axe]

Nash did reach the Finals in 07 and led his team to a ring.
Plot twist?

[1987_Lakers]

Nash did reach the Finals in 07 and led his team to a ring.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhXNhDmW86o

That one play alone got Amare & Diaw suspended the next game, ending the Suns chances of winning a title that year.

[Whoah10115]

Deron was never the best PG in the league but he was better than Paul in their second seasons.

[MrFonzworth]

Deron was never the best PG in the league but he was better than Paul in their second seasons.

Deron Williams was never better than Chris Paul.

[j3lademaster]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhXNhDmW86o

That one play alone got Amare & Diaw suspended the next game, ending the Suns chances of winning a title that year.this. Despite all the conspiracy theories of nba history, this was one instance where a ref was arrested and admitted he fixed games in favor of San Antonio. It is the biggest asterisk in history. And after the spurs it was smooth sailing, baby Lebron + scrubs in the finals.

[RRR3]

this. Despite all the conspiracy theories of nba history, this was one instance where a ref was arrested and admitted he fixed games in favor of San Antonio. It is the biggest asterisk in history. And after the spurs it was smooth sailing, baby Lebron + scrubs in the finals.
I wonder how LeBron and the Cavs do versus the Suns. Certainly they weren't winning, but they might get a game or two. Big difference between being met at the rim by Tim Duncan compared to Amar'e Stoudemire.

[Boarman1]

I do agree Nash is elite and severely underrated, but one of those MVPs belonged to Kobe

I love his story, short guard who didn't get any offers to D1 schools but found a way to the legaue and won 2 MVPs

If Nash had slightly better defense, I think the Suns get past the Lakers one of those years and hoepfully win a ring

I have Nash has a top 100 player of all time

[RRR3]

I do agree Nash is elite and severely underrated, but one of those MVPs belonged to Kobe

I love his story, short guard who didn't get any offers to D1 schools but found a way to the legaue and won 2 MVPs

If Nash had slightly better defense, I think the Suns get past the Lakers one of those years and hoepfully win a ring

I have Nash has a top 100 player of all time
Literally everyone does :lol

[Whoah10115]

Deron Williams was never better than Chris Paul.

In their second season in the league, Deron Williams was better than Chris Paul.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

In their second season in the league, Deron Williams was better than Chris Paul.

Was Deron ever really in the same tier as Chris Paul?I always viewed him as a system player since he never did anything without Sloan.

OP, I would have Steve Nash as 6th all time above players like Isiah Thomas, John Stockton. I don't know how high you want him?

1. Magic Johnson
2. Steph Curry
3. Jason Kidd
4. Chris Paul
5. Oscar Robertson
6. Steve Nash

[AirBonner]

Was Deron ever really in the same tier as Chris Paul?I always viewed him as a system player since he never did anything without Sloan.

OP, I would have Steve Nash as 6th all time above players like Isiah Thomas, John Stockton. I don't know how high you want him?

1. Magic Johnson
2. Steph Curry
3. Jason Kidd
4. Chris Paul
5. Oscar Robertson
6. Steve Nash
Don’t get me wrong Chris Paul is amazing but was he better than Nash? He arguably played on better teams in Houston and Los Angeles

[Smoke117]

Not really. He's overrrated if anything. He has two MVP's when Chris Paul, a vastly superior player has none. Nuff said. Op is also a fukking fakkot who knows nothing about basketball/thread.

[AirBonner]

Not really. He's overrrated if anything. He has two MVP's when Chris Paul, a vastly superior player has none. Nuff said. Op is also a fukking fakkot who knows nothing about basketball/thread.

He has two Paul has none. The voters might have been wrong once but twice? Nah

[Smoke117]

He has two Paul has none. The voters might have been wrong once but twice? Nah

Nash wasn't even that good in the years he was gifted them. lol. You could have replaced him with any top 20 pg and they would have won the same amount of games.

[AirBonner]

Nash wasn't even that good in the years he was gifted them. lol. You could have replaced him with any top 20 pg and they would have won the same amount of games.

As the best player? Then why couldn’t Kidd or cp3 do it? Nash cultivated his teams into having top offenses. He’s a magician

[Smoke117]

As the best player? Then why couldn’t Kidd or cp3 do it? Nash cultivated his teams into having top offenses. He’s a magician

You talking that bullshit? lol a 2008, 2009 Chris Paul couldn't have done what Nash was doing? He was 10 times the player Nash ever was in his prime. You talking that bullshit.

[MrFonzworth]

In their second season in the league, Deron Williams was better than Chris Paul.

What you said just now is wrong. Deron Williams was never better than Chris Paul.

[Axe]

Don’t get me wrong Chris Paul is amazing but was he better than Nash? He arguably played on better teams in Houston and Los Angeles
Nash also played for a better team named the Los Angeles Lakers.

[Whoah10115]

You talking that bullshit? lol a 2008, 2009 Chris Paul couldn't have done what Nash was doing? He was 10 times the player Nash ever was in his prime. You talking that bullshit.

Paul's tempo of game is much different, so that's an assumption.

And any top 20? That's just inaccurate.


What you said just now is wrong. Deron Williams was never better than Chris Paul.

Wait, no. In 2005/06 he was.

[Roundball_Rock]

He is underrated because many fans are lazy and want to go by PPG. Unfortunately, there is no stat for Nash's impact on making his teammates better and the offense hum.

[ArbitraryWater]

Its crazy how close he was to the finals in 07 and 10. Also 03 but not as best player.

And he was robbed in 07. Still didn‘t like how he ended game 5 though.

[ArbitraryWater]

Paul is better though. Played in a more competitive and stacked era.

[ArbitraryWater]

Nash’s impact goes beyond counting stats. Nash made scrubs look good while cp3 never really did that

He still wasn‘t better than Paul after 07.

And he wasn‘t much in 04.

[RRR3]

Paul's tempo of game is much different, so that's an assumption.

And any top 20? That's just inaccurate.



Wait, no. In 2005/06 he was.
I’m not sure how rookie Deron Williams putting up 10.8/2.4/4.5 on a disgusting TS% of 50.0 was supposed to be better than Rookie of the Year CP3 putting up 16.1/5.1/7.8 on 54.6 TS%. I guess it makes about as much sense as Isiah Thomas being better at basketball than CP3 though.

[SouBeachTalents]

Its crazy how close he was to the finals in 07 and 10. Also 03 but not as best player.

And he was robbed in 07. Still didn‘t like how he ended game 5 though.
Celtics/Suns 2010 would've been an interesting ass series, completely contrasting styles & strengths

[BigShotBob]

I’m not sure how rookie Deron Williams putting up 10.8/2.4/4.5 on a disgusting TS% of 50.0 was supposed to be better than Rookie of the Year CP3 putting up 16.1/5.1/7.8 on 54.6 TS%. I guess it makes about as much sense as Isiah Thomas being better at basketball than CP3 though.

You really don't think Zeke is better than Chris Paul?

Have you seen Zeke play?

[Whoah10115]

I’m not sure how rookie Deron Williams putting up 10.8/2.4/4.5 on a disgusting TS% of 50.0 was supposed to be better than Rookie of the Year CP3 putting up 16.1/5.1/7.8 on 54.6 TS%. I guess it makes about as much sense as Isiah Thomas being better at basketball than CP3 though.

You're right, their rookie season was 05/06, not 04/05.

06/07 Deron should have been All-NBA over Paul.

And you keep going back to the Isiah thing, and you're painfully wrong. I, myself, know that I'm not definitively picking either. But you're so sure on Paul and none of that is based on any understanding of Isiah beyond stats.

You can't actually comment on how good Isiah is, can you?

[ArbitraryWater]

Celtics/Suns 2010 would've been an interesting ass series, completely contrasting styles & strengths

undermentioned how J-Rich left his man Artest out of his eyesight and let him run by him for the putback

[Nowitness]

Only man to be a defensive liability and win MVP. He was a fringe All-Star, but has become overrated.

[SouBeachTalents]

undermentioned how J-Rich left his man Artest out of his eyesight and let him run by him for the putback
True, but it was such an unprecedented situation. I've never seen a buzzer beater created off an airball like that. Artest was damn near camped out at the 3 point line when Kobe took that shot. But credit to him, he crashed the boards and put himself in position to make that play

[Roundball_Rock]

Its crazy how close he was to the finals in 07 and 10. Also 03 but not as best player.

And he was robbed in 07. Still didn‘t like how he ended game 5 though.

Cheap Shot Rob. :mad:

It also shows how being in the wrong conference can hurt your legacy. If the Suns were in the East they make at least 1, if not multiple, finals and Nash's legacy looks a lot different than it does with WCF trips being the farthest his teams went. In 2007, for example, the Suns easily would win the East.


Celtics/Suns 2010 would've been an interesting ass series, completely contrasting styles & strengths

FWIW, the Suns won both of their games that season (by 18 and 7).

[HylianNightmare]

One of those mvps should've gone somewhere else

[FKAri]

Only man to be a defensive liability and win MVP. He was a fringe All-Star, but has become overrated.

I think you're confusing him with Steve Curry

[RRR3]

You're right, their rookie season was 05/06, not 04/05.

06/07 Deron should have been All-NBA over Paul.

And you keep going back to the Isiah thing, and you're painfully wrong. I, myself, know that I'm not definitively picking either. But you're so sure on Paul and none of that is based on any understanding of Isiah beyond stats.

You can't actually comment on how good Isiah is, can you?
I’m not sure how DWill should have been All-NBA over CP3 in 07 considering CP3 didn’t make an all-NBA team that year. Even so, CP3 was better like he always was:

CP3: 17.3/4.4/8.9 on 53.7 TS%, 5.0 BPM (uncharacteristically low TS% but he hadn’t hit his prime yet)
DWill: 16.2/3.3/9.3 on 53.5 TS%, 1.3 BPM

Really hard for me to listen to you about Isiah when you keep getting stuff blatantly wrong.

[Whoah10115]

I’m not sure how DWill should have been All-NBA over CP3 in 07 considering CP3 didn’t make an all-NBA team that year. Even so, CP3 was better like he always was:

CP3: 17.3/4.4/8.9 on 53.7 TS%, 5.0 BPM (uncharacteristically low TS% but he hadn’t hit his prime yet)
DWill: 16.2/3.3/9.3 on 53.5 TS%, 1.3 BPM

Really hard for me to listen to you about Isiah when you keep getting stuff blatantly wrong.

Deron was better that season. A lot of people viewed it that way, and I'd say MOST.

Also, everyone forgetting how long the topic of Deron vs Paul went on?

Just because Paul won doesn't mean you go back and erase it.

That said, I really liked Deron Williams, but I've NEVER picked him over Chris Paul.

But that doesn't mean he didn't have a better season in 05/06, because he did. That was a season you were probably watching a little, so reading me their lines doesn't serve your point. I re-referenced basketball-reference after I posted and saw the same. And he was already the best player on a team that won 51 games. The Hornets won one more game than they did the year before. I don't fall back on that, but it has its relevance, on context.

So don't get where you think you're speaking in established fact.

[RRR3]

Deron was better that season. A lot of people viewed it that way, and I'd say MOST.

Also, everyone forgetting how long the topic of Deron vs Paul went on?

Just because Paul won doesn't mean you go back and erase it.

That said, I really liked Deron Williams, but I've NEVER picked him over Chris Paul.

But that doesn't mean he didn't have a better season in 05/06, because he did. That was a season you were probably watching a little, so reading me their lines doesn't serve your point. I re-referenced basketball-reference and saw the same. And he was already the best player on a team that made the playoffs.

So don't get where you think you're speaking in established fact.
Those 10.8 PPG on 50.0 TS% :bowdown:

Supastahhhh

[Whoah10115]

Those 10.8 PPG on 50.0 TS% :bowdown:

Supastahhhh

It's like me continuing to play the same video game.

Stats stats stats.

I guess I should just check box scores.

[RRR3]

It's like me continuing to play the same video game.

Stats stats stats.

I guess I should just check box scores.
Whoooooooooosh.

[Whoah10115]

Whoooooooooosh.

:confusedshrug:

[RRR3]

:confusedshrug:
We already went over 2005-06 and agreed Paul was better but then you went right back to insisting DWill was somehow better that season with his mediocre 10.8 PPG on awful efficiency despite the fact that Paul was the ROY, not him.

[Whoah10115]

We already went over 2005-06 and agreed Paul was better but then you went right back to insisting DWill was somehow better that season with his mediocre 10.8 PPG on awful efficiency despite the fact that Paul was the ROY, not him.

Clearly I'm repeatedly quoting the wrong season.

06/07