If Rik Smits outplayed league MVP Shaq in the 00' Finals...

[3ball]

would anyone say that Reggie Miller had the goat accomplishment by winning that series?

Imagine saying it's the goat accomplishment when your sidekick outplayed the opponent's top guy

Would anyone say Shaq had the goat accomplishment if Penny outplayed Hakeem in the 95' Finals?

It's preposterous... And imagine if Smits hit the series-winning shot too.. :facepalm:

[tpols]

is this kyrie to curry?

If Reggie ever had a teammate capable of on ball 30 ppg playoff series he would have won multiple rings.

[Roundball_Rock]

Were Shaq, Hakeem choking like Curry?

The "option" stuff is out of control. Miller as a "#1 option" had usage comparable to #2 or #3 options on other teams.

[Rico2016]

Let me know when anyone faced a 30 point 50/40/90 unanimous MVP that led a team to 73 wins

Let me know.

Thanks.

[2ball]

Reggie was INSANELY good. I feel like Reggie's biggest contribution came from the fear he instilled in the opposition, particularly after the 1994 playoffs where he erupted against the Knicks and began to build his legacy. No team felt safe when leading against the Pacers after 1994.

He is an interesting player for a lot of reasons. He was ahead of his time in many respects. Certainly not a standout athlete in an era that featured physically strong wings like Jordan, Pippen, Richmond, Dumars (and even 2nd/3rd tier guys like Gerald Wilkins, Kendall Gill, Hersey Hawkins etc). He couldn't post up or play lockdown defense like the aforementioned guys, but he was lights out from 3 (and very high volume for the era) and was also automatic from the line. The Pacers did a good job putting versatile defenders around him, so while he wasn't a superstar, he was able to be the focal point of a very good team for a very long time.

He deserves credit for his clutch performances and his longevity, and is an uncontroversial HOFer IMO. Who knows...had Artest not lost his mind, he might even have a ring.

[SouBeachTalents]

2016 bothering you today huh?

https://www.opencounseling.com/hotlines-us

Hopefully you can get some help

[Jordan96]

would anyone say that Reggie Miller had the goat accomplishment by winning that series?

Imagine saying it's the goat accomplishment when your sidekick outplayed the opponent's top guy

Would anyone say Shaq had the goat accomplishment if Penny outplayed Hakeem in the 95' Finals?

It's preposterous... And imagine if Smits hit the series-winning shot too.. :facepalm:

Now imagine if Reggie Miller got more points rebounds assists steals and blocks than any player on either team (including Prime Shaq!!)

Then yup, he would rightly be crowned the GOAT today

[3ball]

Were Shaq, Hakeem choking like Curry?



Curry choking or being hurt is even more reason it isn't a goat accomplishment, just like Dirk's wasn't in 2011 when lebron choked and got outplayed by Terry

Thanks for walking into that one






The "option" stuff is out of control. Miller as a "#1 option" had usage comparable to #2 or #3 options on other teams.





If you don't like the Miller/Smits example, you can apply this example to any year, i.e.:



- Would Malone have the goat accomplishment if Stockton outplayed Jordan in 98'?

- Would Kidd have the goat accomplishment if Kenyon outplayed Duncan in 03'?

- Etc

- Etc


You can do it every year... So only lebron gets credit for a "goat" accomplishment under this circumstance

[Rico2016]

2016 bothering you today huh?

https://www.opencounseling.com/hotlines-us

Hopefully you can get some help

Some days are harder for 3ball. Imagine a full documentary coming out about your hero and all you can do is write diss piece after diss piece about the REAL GOAT, LeBron Raymone James. 2016 hits hard for both parties. For the Pro LBJ Fam, we stay winning. Nothing can top it, ever. It's widely accepted as the pinnacle of sports success. The bar. LeBar. For the Anti LBJ Fam, they can try their hardest but they cant erase that 73 win season. They can't erase LeBron literally having the best 3-game stretch in NBA Finals history. They can't erase LeBron facing off against the only unanimous MVP in NBA history while also facing 3 all NBAs to 1. They can't erase LeBron leading every player in every statistic. It's just too much to erase. LeBar fam stay winning.

[3ball]

Some days are harder for 3ball. Imagine a full documentary coming out about your hero and all you can do is write diss piece after diss piece about the REAL GOAT, LeBron Raymone James. 2016 hits hard for both parties. For the Pro LBJ Fam, we stay winning. Nothing can top it, ever. It's widely accepted as the pinnacle of sports success. The bar. LeBar. For the Anti LBJ Fam, they can try their hardest but they cant erase that 73 win season. They can't erase LeBron literally having the best 3-game stretch in NBA Finals history. They can't erase LeBron facing off against the only unanimous MVP in NBA history while also facing 3 all NBAs to 1. They can't erase LeBron leading every player in every statistic. It's just too much to erase. LeBar fam stay winning.

Best 3-game stretch is 48/10/6 in games 2-4 of 93' Finals for MJ

What 3 game stretch were you talking about for lebron?

[Reggie43]

Please leave the Pacers out of your daily Lebron vs. Jordan arguments. Whatever analogy you have you stans wont be ever changing your opinions anyway so why bother?

[3ball]

Please leave the Pacers out of your daily Lebron vs. Jordan arguments. Whatever analogy you have you stans wont be ever changing your opinions anyway so why bother?

I'm just pointing out something obvious and intuitive - how can it be the goat accomplishment when your sidekick outplayed the opponent's top guy and hit the winning shot - sounds like the sidekick deserves equal credit for the win

[RRR3]

I'm just pointing out something obvious and intuitive - how can it be the goat accomplishment when your sidekick outplayed the opponent's top guy and hit the winning shot - sounds like the sidekick deserves equal credit for the win
Sounds like you're sobbing into your Jordan jammies again.

[3ball]

Sounds like you're sobbing into your Jordan jammies again.

Meh, I do this to defeat other posters in arguments, like i did with Roundball above (post #8)

[2ball]

Meh, I do this to defeat other posters in arguments, like i did with Roundball above (post #8)
:cheers:

[Rico2016]

Best 3-game stretch is 48/10/6 in games 2-4 of 93' Finals for MJ

What 3 game stretch were you talking about for lebron?

That one is a close one, it's actually #2 on the list, so for once MJ is in the top 5, but still yes, #2 at best once again. Heck, it was #1 for a long time until LeBron passed him in 2016. Don't be mad, but here it is for factual proof and no biased 3ballisms:

https://i.postimg.cc/nzZ4Sdd0/Best-3-game-stretch.png

#2 aint bad, be proud of it. It's hard to pass LeBron in these matters. He is the G.O.A.T. after all

ALSO: One of MJ's game went to 3OT, which skews things is a bit, but I'll give that one to you. Still, MJ is #2 to LBJ.

[Rico2016]

And MJ was not 48-10-6, again you are inflating numbers to your advantage. Bad boy, 3ball.

LBJ
36 - 12 - 10 - 3 - 3 on 51% FG • 8 turnovers = 3.63 ast 2 turnover ratio
(a 36-point triple double plus 3 steals and 3 blocks?!)

MJ
47 - 9 - 6 - 1.3 - 0.3 on 50% FG • 9 turnovers, 2.0 ast 2 turnover ratio
(his lack of defense killed him...only a 1 way player)

Cute. Close. But still #2. LeBron wins :D

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Let me know when anyone faced a 30 point 50/40/90 unanimous MVP that led a team to 73 wins

Let me know.

Thanks.

Kawhi beat those three geeks when they were still all in their primes and much more playoff experience in 2019

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2019-nba-finals-warriors-vs-raptors.html

[HBK_Kliq_2]

And MJ was not 48-10-6, again you are inflating numbers to your advantage. Bad boy, 3ball.

LBJ
36 - 12 - 10 - 3 - 3 on 51% FG • 8 turnovers = 3.63 ast 2 turnover ratio
(a 36-point triple double plus 3 steals and 3 blocks?!)

MJ
47 - 9 - 6 - 1.3 - 0.3 on 50% FG • 9 turnovers, 2.0 ast 2 turnover ratio
(his lack of defense killed him...only a 1 way player)

Cute. Close. But still #2. LeBron wins :D

Irving had a 19 GameScore and Curry\Klay were at 13 and 11. So by that statistic, Lebron had a lot more help and should of won the series anyway.

Kawhi's teammate in the 2019 finals with highest gamescore = Siakam 15.8, wins series in 6
Lebron's teammate in the 2016 finals with highest gamescore = Irving 19.1, wins series in 7

Sounds like Kawhi did easier while also having less help, which makes it more impressive.

[Uncle Drew]

And MJ was not 48-10-6, again you are inflating numbers to your advantage. Bad boy, 3ball.

LBJ
36 - 12 - 10 - 3 - 3 on 51% FG • 8 turnovers = 3.63 ast 2 turnover ratio
(a 36-point triple double plus 3 steals and 3 blocks?!)

MJ
47 - 9 - 6 - 1.3 - 0.3 on 50% FG • 9 turnovers, 2.0 ast 2 turnover ratio
(his lack of defense killed him...only a 1 way player)

Cute. Close. But still #2. LeBron wins :D

Another victory for LeFam. Swimming in Ws.

[AussieSteve]

Best 3-game stretch is 48/10/6 in games 2-4 of 93' Finals for MJ

What 3 game stretch were you talking about for lebron?

47/10/6... in 48mpg (1 triple OT) on 39fga.

While IMO it's between MJ 93 and LeBron 16 for GOAT finals performance, I think LeBron gets the slight edge overall and in terms of best three game stretch. Both in terms of actual level of play and moreso when you add the context of his performances.

I know you like to simplify things by stats only so

36/12/10/3.0/3.0 on 59%ts in 44 mins with 3 wins

Beats

47/10/6/1.3/0.3 on 55%ts in 48 mins with 2 wins and a loss

[Roundball_Rock]

Kawhi beat those three geeks when they were still all in their primes and much more playoff experience in 2019

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2019-nba-finals-warriors-vs-raptors.html

When the Warriors had 3 injured starters, including KD and Klay.

[StrongLurk]

That one is a close one, it's actually #2 on the list, so for once MJ is in the top 5, but still yes, #2 at best once again. Heck, it was #1 for a long time until LeBron passed him in 2016. Don't be mad, but here it is for factual proof and no biased 3ballisms:

https://i.postimg.cc/nzZ4Sdd0/Best-3-game-stretch.png

#2 aint bad, be proud of it. It's hard to pass LeBron in these matters. He is the G.O.A.T. after all

ALSO: One of MJ's game went to 3OT, which skews things is a bit, but I'll give that one to you. Still, MJ is #2 to LBJ.

Lebron three finals in a row :biggums::biggums::biggums:

Also, Lebron's 2017 run is NOT talked about enough. People focus on 16 cause of the comeback and 18 because he didn't have Kyrie anymore and was a straight up juggernaught, but he might have been at his best in the 17 playoff run.

MJ is number one for me all time, but I don't understand how anyone has Lebron outside of the top 3.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

When the Warriors had 3 injured starters, including KD and Klay.

Klay missed a game and a half in 2019. Draymond missed a game in 2016. Are you arguing that half a game of Klay? Or arguing that Durant's ghost was on 2016 warriors? Either way I don't see how it holds up.

[Monta Ellis MVP]

Curry choking or being hurt is even more reason it isn't a goat accomplishment, just like Dirk's wasn't in 2011 when lebron choked and got outplayed by Terry

Thanks for walking into that one






If you don't like the Miller/Smits example, you can apply this example to any year, i.e.:



- Would Malone have the goat accomplishment if Stockton outplayed Jordan in 98'?

- Would Kidd have the goat accomplishment if Kenyon outplayed Duncan in 03'?

- Etc

- Etc


You can do it every year... So only lebron gets credit for a "goat" accomplishment under this circumstance

As a LeBron fan I don’t really know how to respond to this post.

[Roundball_Rock]

Klay missed a game and a half in 2019. Draymond missed a game in 2016. Are you arguing that half a game of Klay? Or arguing that Durant's ghost was on 2016 warriors? Either way I don't see how it holds up.

Klay was carrying the Warriors in Game 6 before he went down so it was a huge deal. Durant played only 12 minutes in the finals and Cousins 0. People give Kawhi a ton of credit for a ton of luck.

To your strict point: Curry/Thompson/Green in 19' versus 16', the Warriors lost the game Klay missed completely and lost the game where he went out. In the full games he played they were 2-2.

The two teams weren't equal minus their best player. The Cavs went 1-5 without LeBron in 16' while the Raptors went 17-5 without Kawhi. The Raptors backed it up by having the third best record in the NBA this year (better than Kawhi's new team in fact) and also had 59 wins before Kawhi got there. The Cavs consistently sucked whenever LeBron was out and went down the toilet after he left (like Miami and Cleveland before).

[3ball]

As a LeBron fan I don’t really know how to respond to this post.

Classic Roundball.. makes an argument and then disappears when someone effectively counters it

[3ball]

And MJ was not 48-10-6, again you are inflating numbers to your advantage. Bad boy, 3ball.

LBJ
36 - 12 - 10 - 3 - 3 on 51% FG • 8 turnovers = 3.63 ast 2 turnover ratio
(a 36-point triple double plus 3 steals and 3 blocks?!)

MJ
47 - 9 - 6 - 1.3 - 0.3 on 50% FG • 9 turnovers, 2.0 ast 2 turnover ratio
(his lack of defense killed him...only a 1 way player)

Cute. Close. But still #2. LeBron wins :D

11 more points on equal efficiency is just better... Much better

47/10/6 > 36/12/10

And we shouldn't include assists - lebron doesn't let the ball move/hogs his team's assists so his TEAM has low assists - who cares about lebron's assists when it comes at expense of team assists.. lebron's team gets massively out-assisted yet you're bragging about lebron's assists.. lebron's high assists is a drawback, not a pkus

[3ball]

:cheers:

^^^ not an alt of 3ball

[Shooter]

That one is a close one, it's actually #2 on the list, so for once MJ is in the top 5, but still yes, #2 at best once again. Heck, it was #1 for a long time until LeBron passed him in 2016. Don't be mad, but here it is for factual proof and no biased 3ballisms:

https://i.postimg.cc/nzZ4Sdd0/Best-3-game-stretch.png

#2 aint bad, be proud of it. It's hard to pass LeBron in these matters. He is the G.O.A.T. after all

ALSO: One of MJ's game went to 3OT, which skews things is a bit, but I'll give that one to you. Still, MJ is #2 to LBJ.

MJ can be #2 best Finals performer, still #1 overall though.

[999Guy]

would anyone say that Reggie Miller had the goat accomplishment by winning that series?

Imagine saying it's the goat accomplishment when your sidekick outplayed the opponent's top guy

Would anyone say Shaq had the goat accomplishment if Penny outplayed Hakeem in the 95' Finals?

It's preposterous... And imagine if Smits hit the series-winning shot too.. :facepalm:

Why does Kyrie outplaying Curry matter but LeBron outplaying everybody to an extreme degree not matter?

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Why does Kyrie outplaying Curry matter but LeBron outplaying everybody to an extreme degree not matter?

An extreme degree? LeBron didn't out play Irving as much as Kawhi outplayed Siakam

GmSc gap for Kawhi/Siakam - 8.1

GmSc gap for LeBron/Irving - 7.4

Siakam didn't out play Curry either.

[Shooter]

An extreme degree? LeBron didn't out play Irving as much as Kawhi outplayed Siakam

GmSc gap for Kawhi/Siakam - 8.1

GmSc gap for LeBron/Irving - 7.4

Siakam didn't out play Curry either.

Now do the #3 options and get wrecked. Then do the #4 options.

LeBron's #3 option was less than Kawhi's #6 option.

[3ball]

Why does Kyrie outplaying Curry matter but LeBron outplaying everybody to an extreme degree not matter?

because the stats show it was a shared load

Kyrie and Lebron both used 31-33% of possessions in the 2016 Finals, and averaged about the same, with both guys making history by getting 40 in the critical game..

But it was Kyrie that signifucantly outplayed the only unanimous MVP in league history... So imagine if Rik Smits outplayed Shaq in the 00' Finals - would we say Reggie had the goat accomplishment by beating those Lakers??!?.. or if KJ starched Jordan in the 93' Finals - would Barkley have the goat accomplishment by beating those Bulls?..

so its ridiculous to say lebron had a goat accomplishment when his 2nd option took out their top guy (which left lebron to outplay... Klay???... what a "tough" path lol).. and we haven't mentioned the Dray suspension - this wins the argument by itself in many people's minds, without considering Kyrie outplaying the Warriors' by himself and hitting the series-winning shot.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Now do the #3 options and get wrecked. Then do the #4 options.

LeBron's #3 option was less than Kawhi's #6 option.

Stars matter in playoff series, not role players. Kawhi had better role players because he doesn't monopolize the offense like LeBron.

[Shooter]

because the stats show it was a shared load

Kyrie and Lebron both used 31-33% of possessions in the 2016 Finals, and averaged about the same, with both guys making history by getting 40 in the critical game..

But it was Kyrie that signifucantly outplayed the only unanimous MVP in league history... So imagine if Rik Smits outplayed Shaq in the 00' Finals - would we say Reggie had the goat accomplishment by beating those Lakers??!?.. or if KJ starched Jordan in the 93' Finals - would Barkley have the goat accomplishment by beating those Bulls?..

so its ridiculous to say lebron had a goat accomplishment when his 2nd option took out their top guy (which left lebron to outplay... Klay???... what a "tough" path lol).. and we haven't mentioned the Dray suspension - this wins the argument by itself in many people's minds, without considering Kyrie outplaying the Warriors' by himself and hitting the series-winning shot.

Shared load :lol

https://i.postimg.cc/0jKSQL7M/LeBron_1st.png

[3ball]

Shared load :lol

https://i.postimg.cc/0jKSQL7M/LeBron_1st.png

lots of guys have dominating series, aka 41 ppg, but only lebron had a teammate match him in scoring and usage, while outplaying the league mvp and hitting the winning shot

LeBron and Kyrie averaged about 28, while mj averaged 20 more than pippen




Shared load :lol

https://i.postimg.cc/0jKSQL7M/LeBron_1st.png




If you don't like the Miller/Smits example, you can apply this example to any year, i.e.:



- Would Malone have the goat accomplishment if Stockton outplayed Jordan in 98'?

- Would Kidd have the goat accomplishment if Kenyon outplayed Duncan in 03'?

- Etc

- Etc


You can do it every year... So only lebron gets credit for a "goat" accomplishment under this circumstance

[Reggie43]

We really should have a separate forum for stans of both sides...

[msbutthurt]

Let me know when anyone faced a 30 point 50/40/90 unanimous MVP that led a team to 73 wins

Let me know.

Thanks.


Let me know when the NBA lowers the salary cap and players make less money because they are Lebron fans as dumb as you.

[msbutthurt]

2016 bothering you today huh?

https://www.opencounseling.com/hotlines-us

Hopefully you can get some help

Another low IQ spotted.

[msbutthurt]

Sounds like you're sobbing into your Jordan jammies again.

Looks like you're a communist liberal.

[msbutthurt]

This thread is proof that Lebron fans are 18 year olds that never went to college... just like Lebron. Can you imagine being so useless at life that you brag about another man throwing a ball through a hole... they would love for Lebron to throw his d in their hole.

[Uncle Drew]

4 years later and you’re still fuming. Greatest championship in the history of sports.

[msbutthurt]

4 years later and you’re still fuming. Greatest championship in the history of sports.

Hilarious that responding to Lebron trolls is considered fuming. I wasn't the one that created a Lebron thread.

You have no idea how much I'm laughing. Shouldn't you be out in the streets breaking stuff and stealing stuff?

If you think Donaghy was the only ref rigging stuff, you are legit brain dead. Refs can see the other bad calls a ref makes and they have to do reviews of each other... Enjoy your foster bothers.

Enjoy your rigged sports.

[msbutthurt]

4 years later and you’re still fuming. Greatest championship in the history of sports.

Heat over Mavs.
Lakers over Blazers.
Lakers over Kings.
Heat over Pacers.

Dwyane Wade thought a gallon of milk cost 20 dollars.

Lol @ the communist liberals.