KAJ: ‘Michael Jordan Is Not The Greatest Player Ever’

[FireDavidKahn]

https://fadeawayworld.net/2020/05/24/kareem-abdul-jabbar-michael-jordan-is-not-the-greatest-player-ever/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=rojXqmsYRWQ&feature=emb_logo

:applause:

[Manny98]

https://media.giphy.com/media/GV3aYiEP8qbao/giphy.gif

[PoutinPippin]

Somebody’s salty. If most of his rings he was the best player, he’d have a case. But he doesn’t. He, like many others of the all-time great’s, they’re only really battling it out for second-best.

[Monta Ellis MVP]

Kareem Abdul Jabutthurt getting very salty :oldlol: Notice how he doesn’t mention Bill Russell or Wilt of course. He tries to misdirect to players that won’t interfere with his personal ranking like Oscar Robertson or even Jerry West. So he tried to discredit Jordan and prop up Jerry West and Oscar while completely ignoring Bill Russell and Wilt. Kareem is subtly politicking for himself as GOAT. LeBron has enough balls to come out and call himself the GOAT. Kareem isn’t man enough to do that.

[Rico2016]

Somebody’s salty. If most of his rings he was the best player, he’d have a case. But he doesn’t. He, like many others of the all-time great’s, they’re only really battling it out for second-best.

Is it just rings tho?

Russell had 11
Havlicel 8
Horry 7
Pippen 6
Magic 5

You get the picture. Kareem > MJ beyond rings?

[Hey Yo]

Kareem didnt need to quit the league 2x due to extreme mental and physical fatigue.

[PoutinPippin]

Kareem Abdul Jabutthurt getting very salty :oldlol: Notice how he doesn’t mention Bill Russell or Wilt of course. He tries to misdirect to players that won’t interfere with his personal ranking like Oscar Robertson or even Jerry West. So he tried to discredit Jordan and prop up Jerry West and Oscar while completely ignoring Bill Russell and Wilt. Kareem is subtly politicking for himself as GOAT. LeBron has enough balls to come out and call himself the GOAT. Kareem isn’t man enough to do that.
LeBron doesn’t have balls, bro. Stop. He said that on a show he produced, full of his circle jerk yes men, who had to awkwardly co-sign, as he said it.

But yes at least he said it publicly.

Meanwhile Jordan gets a ten hour documentary. Full of blemishes and real-ness. No narrative spin. And let’s you decide.

Kream Jabbar is definitely politicking for himself in passive aggressive manner. The same guy who was totally unlikable socially his entire life. The guy who needed a top 15 guy, and a top 5 guy to win all his championships. And no one ever talks about the quality of his sidekicks, or the fact he was a sidekick for the majority of those chips.

Also, how dude dead ass missed the playoffs in the heat of his prime. Other players, like Kobe got criticized for losing with trash to much superior teams in the playoffs. This dude didn’t even get there and I’m supposed to believe he’s the greatest ever? :oldlol:

[Stanley Kobrick]

kareem must be salty because like bill laimbeer, michael kept both from winning rings

[2ball]

Michael Jordan has a regular season PER of 27.9 compared to LeBron's 27.5, and a playoff PER of 28.6 compared to LeBron's 28.3. The numbers don't lie. Jordan is the GOAT.

[PoutinPippin]

Is it just rings tho?

No it’s the big picture. Everything. You’re naming sidekicks like Pippen. Inferior players like Hondo. Or straight up role players like Horry? You’re talking idiotic semantics.

6 Alpha Rings (2x 3 Peats)
6 Finals MVPs
5 MVPs (should’ve been like 7 or 8)
DPOY

vs

6 Rings (2 Alpha Rings)
2 Finals MVPs
6 MVPs

Even on individual merits I take Mike’s resume there. His style led to more winning as definitively his teams best player. That’s with Mike being retired almost two years of his physical prime :oldlol:

[2ball]

MJ transcended not just basketball but all of sports in a way that LeBron or any other athlete during my lifetime hasn’t even approached. He took basketball to new heights of popularity, blowing the roof off what Magic and Larry started. Michael was the Beatlemania of the 90s.

When you’re discussing something as intangible as “greatness,” I believe we have to take that kind of impact into account as well.

Add to that the fact that he was the more dominant and (I believe) better player on the court, and I see it as a no-brainer.

[1987_Lakers]

kareem must be salty because like bill laimbeer, michael kept both from winning rings

Kareem retied in '89. This post doesn't make sense.

[LAmbruh]

Kareem and his 6 rings are salty!


KAJ and Lakers beating the piss out of teams that used Jordan as a jizzrag does that to you



https://media.giphy.com/media/3ofSBs4Q1f8Q4aRFkc/giphy.gif

[hateraid]

Jordians on full force damage control missed out Tim Duncan isn't impressed with Jordan as well ��

[Hey Yo]

No it’s the big picture. Everything. You’re naming sidekicks like Pippen. Inferior players like Hondo. Or straight up role players like Horry? You’re talking idiotic semantics.

6 Alpha Rings (2x 3 Peats)
6 Finals MVPs
5 MVPs (should’ve been like 7 or 8)
DPOY
QUIT the league twice (once in his prime)

vs

6 Rings (2 Alpha Rings)
2 Finals MVPs
6 MVPs
Never quit the league in middle of his career

Even on individual merits I take Mike’s resume there. His style led to more winning as definitively his teams best player. That’s with Mike being retired almost two years of his physical prime :oldlol:
Fixed

[hateraid]

Funny, now 3 of the top 10 (Russell, Duncan, KAJ) all say Jordan isn't the GOAT. 4 if you count Lebron. 5 since Wilt would choose himself. That's 50% confirmed top 10 all time that don't have Jordan GOAT. Lol.
This doc is killing his legacy amongst peers

[Run DLC]

They’re all wrong. There’s only one GOAT and his name is, Kevin Durant.

[tpols]

why couldnt kareem dominate the 70s like MJ dominated the 90s?

The league was weak as hell back then, half the great talent was in the ABA.

[Overdrive]

Funny, now 3 of the top 10 (Russell, Duncan, KAJ) all say Jordan isn't the GOAT. 4 if you count Lebron. 5 since Wilt would choose himself. That's 50% confirmed top 10 all time that don't have Jordan GOAT. Lol.
This doc is killing his legacy amongst peers

And all of them, but Timmy, would call themselves GOAT. What a surprise. Like that even matters. Like politicians who vote for themselves. No agendas involved.

[Rico2016]

Kareem didnt need to quit the league 2x due to extreme mental and physical fatigue.

It's just too obvious to me. Jordan benefitted by being a quitter. Could you imagine if Kareem and LeBron quit the league to rest up for 2 years and then came back fresh? I remember Colin Cowherd saying that LeBron should have done that in 2019 and come back fresh in 2020 like MJ did to get an edge. MJ himself said he was tired after three Finals in a row. THREE FINALS. The man won three, rested up and came back refreshed. MJ has no clue what it's like to make more than three in a row. Crazy to think about it.

Finals in a row
LeBron 8
Kareem 4
Magic 4

MJ has no clue what it's like to have the mental toughness to make 4 or more Finals. He won three, left and came back refreshed. #NotMyGoat

[Rico2016]

why couldnt kareem dominate the 70s like MJ dominated the 90s?

The league was weak as hell back then, half the great talent was in the ABA.

Who was Kareem's second best player? 35 year old Oscar Robertson?
If Kareem left the league for 2 years to 'freshen up' would he have done better?

[PoutinPippin]

Jordians on full force damage control missed out Tim Duncan isn't impressed with Jordan as well ��
Maybe Duncan is just mad that Mike said, what we all feel, which is that they would’ve easily won the 1999 championship if they weren’t forced to disband and retire.

Michael and Chicago constantly had their way with them in 1997 and 98. Even when they didn’t have Scottie Quittin for half the season.

There’s always going to be outlier or confrontational dissenting opinions. But the majority consensus is Michael is the greatest of all time. Especially from salty dudes like Kareem and Duncan.

Timmy isn’t even better or greater than Shaq, Hakeem, Wilt, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Kobe or LeBron

[scuzzy]

should have never released that puff piece doc


now it's open season on those butt cheeks

[Rico2016]

why couldnt kareem dominate the 70s like MJ dominated the 90s?

The league was weak as hell back then, half the great talent was in the ABA.

Age 23: Kareem wins FMVP, LBJ makes Finals, MJ 1st round sweep

1971 KAJ = Wins FMVP
1972 KAJ = loses to Wilt, Jerry West, Gail Goodrich (KAJ's #2 option Oscar scores 9 ppg for the series...)
1973 KAJ = bad series, should have won that one. Oscar was good help

So is this when KAJ should have taken his 2 year freshen up?

[tpols]

Age 23: Kareem wins FMVP, LBJ makes Finals, MJ 1st round sweep

1971 KAJ = Wins FMVP
1972 KAJ = loses to Wilt, Jerry West, Gail Goodrich (KAJ's #2 option Oscar scores 9 ppg for the series...)
1973 KAJ = bad series, should have won that one. Oscar was good help

So is this when KAJ should have taken his 2 year freshen up?

MJ took 2 years off after he won so much he was bored. 3 peat. Time for a new challenge.

And you're in here talking about kareem doing it after taking big L's.

[Rico2016]

Maybe Duncan is just mad that Mike said, what we all feel, which is that they would’ve easily won the 1999 championship if they weren’t forced to disband and retire.

Michael and Chicago constantly had their way with them in 1997 and 98. Even when they didn’t have Scottie Quittin for half the season.

There’s always going to be outlier or confrontational dissenting opinions. But the majority consensus is Michael is the greatest of all time. Especially from salty dudes like Kareem and Duncan.

Timmy isn’t even better or greater than Shaq, Hakeem, Wilt, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Kobe or LeBron

FALSE. MJ never made 4 finals in a row. He needed to excuse himself to the ladies room to freshen up both times.

[Rico2016]

MJ took 2 years off after he won so much he was bored. 3 peat. Time for a new challenge.

And you're in here talking about kareem doing it after taking big L's.

MJ excused himself to the ladies room to 'freshen up' twice. He has no clue what mental toughness it takes to make four finals in a row. What years should Kareem and LBJ have taken their MJ ladies room freshen up years?

[PoutinPippin]

FALSE. MJ never made 4 finals in a row. He needed to excuse himself to the ladies room to freshen up both times.
From actually winning? As opposed to losing 6 times, and nearly 2 more additional times? He definitely earned the right to excuse himself. Winner’s win.


MJ took 2 years off after he won so much he was bored. 3 peat. Time for a new challenge.

And you're in here talking about kareem doing it after taking big L's.
Mike decided he would try to conquer an entirely different sport LOL

Honestly Kareem has as many “alpha rings” as Kobe. And Finals MVPs. And his sidekick was Big O (top 15) and Magic (top 5) ... Kobe’s sidekick? Paula Gasoft.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Maybe Duncan is just mad that Mike said, what we all feel, which is that they would’ve easily won the 1999 championship if they weren’t forced to disband and retire.

Michael and Chicago constantly had their way with them in 1997 and 98. Even when they didn’t have Scottie Quittin for half the season.

There’s always going to be outlier or confrontational dissenting opinions. But the majority consensus is Michael is the greatest of all time. Especially from salty dudes like Kareem and Duncan.

Timmy isn’t even better or greater than Shaq, Hakeem, Wilt, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Kobe or LeBron

Nah. Duncan allegedly said all that as a ROOKIE bro. Don't know anyone who doesn't find Jordan's game impressive. So Duncan was probably talking about Mike the person, and to each their own. Duncan is the reserved quiet type. Jordan is more vocal and not afraid of confrontation.

Also disagree with KAJ being "salty". He's probably the 2nd greatest of all time. To some? The GOAT. He's got every right to say what he did. His credentials are topflight. What KAJ said about his height not being 'respected', and the lack of footage during his prime IS correct. Wilt is in that same boat.

[PoutinPippin]

Nah. Duncan allegedly said all of that as a ROOKIE. I don't anyone who doesn't find Jordan's game impressive. So Duncan was probably talking about Mike the person. And to each his own. Duncan is the reserved quiet type. Jordan is more vocal and isn't afraid of confrontation.

Disagree with KAJ being "salty". He's probably the second greatest of all time. To some, the greatest player. He's got every right to say what he did. His credentials are topflight. What KAJ said about his height not being 'respected', and the lack of footage during his prime is correct. Wilt is in that same boat.
So are the comments I made about massive holes in Kareem’s resume. Just as valid.

And how would rookie Duncan know Mike the person?! Let alone be impressed with or why it would matter? He’s a big man, probably didn’t even emulate Jordan’s game.

And if we are talking about the person, who is impressed with Duncan’s gay ass? His beard wife was ready to sue and break the lid open on the fact Timmy was financing and allowing his gay lover since college to stay with them.

[Rico2016]

Nah. Duncan allegedly said all that as a ROOKIE bro. Don't know anyone who doesn't find Jordan's game impressive. So Duncan was probably talking about Mike the person, and to each their own. Duncan is the reserved quiet type. Jordan is more vocal and not afraid of confrontation.

Also disagree with KAJ being "salty". He's probably the 2nd greatest of all time. To some? The GOAT. He's got every right to say what he did. His credentials are topflight. What KAJ said about his height not being 'respected', and the lack of footage during his prime IS correct. Wilt is in that same boat.

Not afraid of confrontation translates to = egotistical, low IQ, selfish moron with no filter

[RRR3]

Poor coach having a complete meltdown, resorting to making gay jokes about Tim Duncan.


Eeyikes.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

So are the comments I made about massive holes in Kareem’s resume. Just as valid.

And how would rookie Duncan know Mike the person?! Let alone be impressed with or why it would matter? He’s a big man, probably didn’t even emulate Jordan’s game.

And if we are talking about the person, who is impressed with Duncan’s gay ass? His beard wife was ready to sue and break the lid open on the fact Timmy was financing and allowing his gay lover since college to stay with them.

Right, but not everyone who thinks Jordan isn't GOAT are "salty".

Apart from Lebron fans maybe... :lol

The comment by Duncan was off. Which is why I think he was talking about Mike as a person...which is still weird.


Not afraid of confrontation translates to = egotistical, low IQ, selfish moron with no filter

Whatever the case being, its better than hiding behind an ALT online. Like you.

[Roundball_Rock]

The Jordan cult has to go after anyone who doesn't bend at the knee for their savior.


why couldnt kareem dominate the 70s like MJ dominated the 90s?

MVP's in the 70's: Kareem 5 (the same MJ won in 15 seasons)
MVP's in the 90's: Jordan 4

The difference is Kareem's teams without him operated at a 14 win and 31 win pace in the 70's. Not every legend can have a team that can win 55 without him in their primes. The credit for that is on the coach and GM. We have seen how MJ does as a GM. :lol


Poor coach having a complete meltdown, resorting to making gay jokes about Tim Duncan.


Eeyikes.

He is a disgrace.

[RRR3]

The Jordan cult has to go after anyone who doesn't bend at the knee for their savior.



MVP's in the 70's: Kareem 5 (the same MJ won in 15 seasons)
MVP's in the 90's: Jordan 4

The difference is Kareem's teams without him operated at a 14 win and 31 win pace in the 70's. Not every legend can have a team that can win 55 without him in their primes. The credit for that is on the coach and GM. We have seen how MJ does as a GM. :lol



He is a disgrace.
The list keeps growing.

Duncan
KAJ
LBJ
Bill Russell
Pippen
Zeke
Horace Grant
Laimbeer
John Salley
Oscar Robertson
Wilt
+A bunch of young players who have LeBron as the GOAT
+the guys who have Kobe or Kareem or someone else as GOAT

All of these guys are the spawn of Satan, according to MJ stans.

[tpols]

All those MVP's and what did he win?

Barely once.

Magic single handedly made Kareem a GOAT candidate.

He wasnt winning shit in the 80s either without an all time talent. Sixers and Celtics wouldve waxed him with ease.

Think about it... Larry Bird gets Kevin McHale and Dennis Johnson. Kareem gets Magic Johnson and James Worthy.

:biggums:

When they played in college, James Worthy was the alpha to MJ's beta. That's how good that mfer was.

Kareem simply was not a team elevator nor a clutch player on the level of MJ's or Bird's of the world.

[RogueBorg]

Kareem retied in '89. This post doesn't make sense.

Should we tell him?

[light]

https://fadeawayworld.net/2020/05/24/kareem-abdul-jabbar-michael-jordan-is-not-the-greatest-player-ever/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=rojXqmsYRWQ&feature=emb_logo

:applause:

Jordan refused the title of The Greatest anyway.

https://s6.gifyu.com/images/Screen-Shot-2020-04-26-at-9.17.32-PM.png

[PP34Deuce]

Can all of you actually say you've seen kareem play?? It was before a good amount of peoples times and I'm going to guess ISH is not a older demographic beyond 40. Clips doesnt really count. Most guys can't accurately say things about past greats pre Jordan. Kareem by stats has rings as a bog contributor...stats... dominant play at college and NBA. I can see him thinking how he feels. A lot of you hardcore MJ fans are thinking so emotional with this argument.

[SouBeachTalents]

Kareem retied in '89. This post doesn't make sense.
Whoosh

[Roundball_Rock]

The list keeps growing.

Duncan
KAJ
LBJ
Bill Russell
Pippen
Zeke
Horace Grant
Laimbeer
John Salley
Oscar Robertson
Wilt
+A bunch of young players who have LeBron as the GOAT
+the guys who have Kobe or Kareem or someone else as GOAT

All of these guys are the spawn of Satan, according to MJ stans.

:roll:

It will get only worse as more and more people come out. Jordan is the incumbent and if someone hasn't been convinced he is GOAT after 30 years of propaganda to that effect their minds won't change in his favor in the future. He has nowhere to go but down in "GOAT support" as time elapses, especially in the near term as his top challenger (in public opinion) keeps adding to his legacy in the next few years. According to most fans and the media, LeBron already is up to #2 so what will that look in another 5 years?

There also seems to be a backlash building. Jordan hasn't done anything in 20+ years yet the media keeps shoving him down everybody's throat day in and day out. There are plenty of great athletes in every sport playing today that they could cover now and then. :lol

[Rolando]

I'm in my 50's. I was watching basketball when Kareem was playing. I was just a kid but...whatever.

Anyway, this is how I see it: Both Kareem and Jordan have legit claims. Jordan handled the media better though and he was simply more dynamic. In any case those guys are the 2 best ever. (I never know what to do with Bill Russell).

Sitting all by himself at 3rd, very solidly, is LeBron. He's clearly beneath Jordan and Kareem but, also, clearly better than the two below him.

4th and 5th is where Bird and Magic reside....whatever order you like, but there they are.

It gets a bit unclear after that.....You got to have Shaq, Duncan and Kobe.....in whatever order you like.

Then is dissolves into chaos.

[Bronbron23]

https://fadeawayworld.net/2020/05/24/kareem-abdul-jabbar-michael-jordan-is-not-the-greatest-player-ever/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=rojXqmsYRWQ&feature=emb_logo

:applause:

any rational person cant argue this. Kareem is right. All this shit is opinion based. You wont know unless you build a time machine and put these teams all up against each other. Even mj himself ssys hes not the goat so this is fine.

[hateraid]

And all of them, but Timmy, would call themselves GOAT. What a surprise. Like that even matters. Like politicians who vote for themselves. No agendas involved.

Russell, the greatest winner ever picked Lebron

But if we go by that criteria then only 4 of 10

[Roundball_Rock]

I'm in my 50's. I was watching basketball when Kareem was playing. I was just a kid but...whatever.

Anyway, this is how I see it: Both Kareem and Jordan have legit claims. Jordan handled the media better though and he was simply more dynamic. In any case those guys are the 2 best ever. (I never know what to do with Bill Russell).

Sitting all by himself at 3rd, very solidly, is LeBron. He's clearly beneath Jordan and Kareem but, also, clearly better than the two below him.

4th and 5th is where Bird and Magic reside....whatever order you like, but there they are.

It gets a bit unclear after that.....You got to have Shaq, Duncan and Kobe.....in whatever order you like.

Then is dissolves into chaos.

What is your take on Wilt?

[hateraid]

Maybe Duncan is just mad that Mike said, what we all feel, which is that they would’ve easily won the 1999 championship if they weren’t forced to disband and retire.

Michael and Chicago constantly had their way with them in 1997 and 98. Even when they didn’t have Scottie Quittin for half the season.

There’s always going to be outlier or confrontational dissenting opinions. But the majority consensus is Michael is the greatest of all time. Especially from salty dudes like Kareem and Duncan.

Timmy isn’t even better or greater than Shaq, Hakeem, Wilt, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Kobe or LeBron

Or maybe it's an honest assessment for the top 1 percent of the NBA all-time?

[Rolando]

What is your take on Wilt?

I would have to put Wilt with Hakeem just below the Shaq, Duncan, Kobe group.

He's difficult though.....Just like Bill Russell. Both of those guys were before my time....Well Wilt was still playing when I was very young.

So here's my Old Man's list:

1. Jordan (or Kareem)
2. Kareem (or Jordan)

3. LeBron

4. Bird (or Magic)
5. Magic (or Bird)

6. Kobe
7. Duncan
8. Shaq

9. Wilt
10. Hakeem

But, once again, Bill Russell should be up above and outside of them all.

[GimmeThat]

the greatest player have kids? all the female fans soul are crushed

[Roundball_Rock]

I would have to put Wilt with Hakeem just below the Shaq, Duncan, Kobe group.

He's difficult though.....Just like Bill Russell. Both of those guys were before my time....Well Wilt was still playing when I was very young.

So here's my Old Man's list:

1. Jordan (or Kareem)
2. Kareem (or Jordan)

3. LeBron

4. Bird (or Magic)
5. Magic (or Bird)

6. Kobe
7. Duncan
8. Shaq

9. Wilt
10. Hakeem

But, once again, Bill Russell should be up above and outside of them all.

Appreciate your thoughts. That definitely is a legit list. :cheers:

[light]

I would have to put Wilt with Hakeem just below the Shaq, Duncan, Kobe group.

He's difficult though.....Just like Bill Russell. Both of those guys were before my time....Well Wilt was still playing when I was very young.

So here's my Old Man's list:

1. Jordan (or Kareem)
2. Kareem (or Jordan)

3. LeBron

4. Bird (or Magic)
5. Magic (or Bird)

6. Kobe
7. Duncan
8. Shaq

9. Wilt
10. Hakeem

But, once again, Bill Russell should be up above and outside of them all.

That's interesting. Like with MJ and Krause/Jackson, I think Red Auerbach needs to be given a little bit more credit when talking about the success of Russell and the Celtics.

But here's my old man take: LeBron should be up above and outside of them all.

Or as Oscar Robertson said, "LeBron is in a league of his own."

James is the only player in the history of the game that can play all five positions and play them at an elite level. I think it was Dolph Schayes that said LeBron could make All-NBA at every position. I agree!

No one can compare with what LeBron does. Not Russell, Wilt, Kareem or Jordan.

Kareem at shooting guard? Ugh.

Jordan at center? Turrible.

LeBron really is the most perfect basketball player that has ever been created, in my opinion. A table for one.

[Overdrive]

So are the comments I made about massive holes in Kareem’s resume. Just as valid.

And how would rookie Duncan know Mike the person?! Let alone be impressed with or why it would matter? He’s a big man, probably didn’t even emulate Jordan’s game.

And if we are talking about the person, who is impressed with Duncan’s gay ass? His beard wife was ready to sue and break the lid open on the fact Timmy was financing and allowing his gay lover since college to stay with them.

If presented the chance, would you suck Michael Jordan's dick?

[ImKobe]

Fixed

Retired in the middle of his prime, wasting basically 2 seasons, and still has the best resume all-time. Brantards fuming.

[Roundball_Rock]

Retired in the middle of his prime, wasting basically 2 seasons, and still has the best resume all-time. Brantards fuming.

It isn't hard to see people who were started their careers around the same time as MJ all began to break down by 96', 97' and 98' (Malone being the one exception) while the guy who took 2 years off magically didn't.

[Rolando]

That's interesting. Like with MJ and Krause/Jackson, I think Red Auerbach needs to be given a little bit more credit when talking about the success of Russell and the Celtics.

But here's my old man take: LeBron should be up above and outside of them all.

Or as Oscar Robertson said, "LeBron is in a league of his own."

James is the only player in the history of the game that can play all five positions and play them at an elite level. I think it was Dolph Schayes that said LeBron could make All-NBA at every position. I agree!

No one can compare with what LeBron does. Not Russell, Wilt, Kareem or Jordan.

Kareem at shooting guard? Ugh.

Jordan at center? Turrible.

LeBron really is the most perfect basketball player that has ever been created, in my opinion. A table for one.

That's a valid point. You could put LeBron anywhere, offensively especially. But he still lacks the resume' of Kareem, Jordan or Russell. That's one of the tragedies of this basketball season....I'm fairly certain that LeBron was going to get another ring this year....still pretty sure about that. With another ring....along with everything else....sure, Jordan and Kareem have to make room up at the top.

Anyway, the fact is: LeBron isn't even finished.

[hateraid]

I would have to put Wilt with Hakeem just below the Shaq, Duncan, Kobe group.

He's difficult though.....Just like Bill Russell. Both of those guys were before my time....Well Wilt was still playing when I was very young.

So here's my Old Man's list:

1. Jordan (or Kareem)
2. Kareem (or Jordan)

3. LeBron

4. Bird (or Magic)
5. Magic (or Bird)

6. Kobe
7. Duncan
8. Shaq

9. Wilt
10. Hakeem

But, once again, Bill Russell should be up above and outside of them all.


That's interesting. Like with MJ and Krause/Jackson, I think Red Auerbach needs to be given a little bit more credit when talking about the success of Russell and the Celtics.

But here's my old man take: LeBron should be up above and outside of them all.

Or as Oscar Robertson said, "LeBron is in a league of his own."

James is the only player in the history of the game that can play all five positions and play them at an elite level. I think it was Dolph Schayes that said LeBron could make All-NBA at every position. I agree!

No one can compare with what LeBron does. Not Russell, Wilt, Kareem or Jordan.

Kareem at shooting guard? Ugh.

Jordan at center? Turrible.

LeBron really is the most perfect basketball player that has ever been created, in my opinion. A table for one.

I enjoyed both your takes. You both sound extremely civil

Here's my old man take. I've watch basketball long enough to know it's all subjective. Who you feel as GOAT all depends on what you relate to and value. Very few can assess it for what it is and not be overly influenced by the media. I respects people's insight, I don't respect people who impose their insight on others

[BigShotBob]

That's interesting. Like with MJ and Krause/Jackson, I think Red Auerbach needs to be given a little bit more credit when talking about the success of Russell and the Celtics.

But here's my old man take: LeBron should be up above and outside of them all.

Or as Oscar Robertson said, "LeBron is in a league of his own."

James is the only player in the history of the game that can play all five positions and play them at an elite level. I think it was Dolph Schayes that said LeBron could make All-NBA at every position. I agree!

No one can compare with what LeBron does. Not Russell, Wilt, Kareem or Jordan.

Kareem at shooting guard? Ugh.

Jordan at center? Turrible.

LeBron really is the most perfect basketball player that has ever been created, in my opinion. A table for one.

Lebron cannot play center, pg, or sg at an elite level. Stop it.

[hateraid]

Lebron cannot play center, pg, or sg at an elite level. Stop it.

Umm...He's currently listed on the Lakers as a PG and leads the league in assists? But go on

[BigShotBob]

Umm...He's currently listed on the Lakers as a PG and leads the league in assists? But go on

He can't guard, or stop, any legit PG. On defense he gets taken off of PGs. So.....yea sorry guards have to play both sides of the ball.

[Roundball_Rock]

Umm...He's currently listed on the Lakers as a PG and leads the league in assists? But go on

Only LeBron and Wilt will lead the league in both scoring and assists among the top 10 all-time. There is value in being able to excel in different roles.

[Turbo Slayer]

He can't guard, or stop, any legit PG. On defense he gets taken off of PGs. So.....yea sorry guards have to play both sides of the ball. You are a idiot.

LeBron asked to guard Giannis in the 2nd half in their last duel. Giannis couldnt do shit on LeBron. Not so bad for a "terrible" defender.

Do you really think that LeBron can't guard PGs? Yes while it's not sustainable to guard the opposing best player or best opposing PGs for a whole damn season LeBron can still show up on his assignments.

****ing idiotic take. LeBron could choose to actively guard whatever he wants and pleases and you can't do shit about it.

[BigShotBob]

You are a idiot.

LeBron asked to guard Giannis in the 2nd half in their last duel. Giannis couldnt do shit on LeBron. Not so bad for a "terrible" defender.

Do you really think that LeBron can't guard PGs? Yes while it's not sustainable to guard the opposing best player or best opposing PGs for a whole damn season LeBron can still show up on his assignments.

****ing idiotic take. LeBron could choose to actively guard whatever he wants and pleases and you can't do shit about it.

Where was Lebron's "legendary defense" against Giannis in their first game? Oh.....right. Gone.

And Lebron can't guard Giannis for a full game, only in stretches. That much is obvious.

No....maybe 10 years ago. But for the past 6 years he can't shut down elite offensive players or talent. Not Kawhi, not KD, not Curry, not Harden, and I'd love to see Lebron try to guard AD....oh wait he's on his team playing help defense :roll:

[Turbo Slayer]

Where was Lebron's "legendary defense" against Giannis in their first game? Oh.....right. Gone.

And Lebron can't guard Giannis for a full game, only in stretches. That much is obvious.

No....maybe 10 years ago. But for the past 6 years he can't shut down elite offensive players or talent. Not Kawhi, not KD, not Curry, not Harden, and I'd love to see Lebron try to guard AD....oh wait he's on his team playing help defense :roll: Ok but that still doesnt change the fact that you are annoying as hell.

[RRR3]

If presented the chance, would you suck Michael Jordan's dick?
:lol
I think it’s obvious he would.

[Goldrush25]

Somebody’s salty. If most of his rings he was the best player, he’d have a case. But he doesn’t. He, like many others of the all-time great’s, they’re only really battling it out for second-best.

Why is everyone that doesn't kiss MJ's arse salty? :lol:

Why can't that just be their opinion and that be the end of it?

[Roundball_Rock]

Why is everyone that doesn't kiss MJ's arse salty? :lol:

Why can't that just be their opinion and that be the end of it?

Exactly. :lol What are some of these people "salty" over anyway?

*Isiah: beat Jordan's team 3 of 4 times, including on the way to 2 rings.
*Duncan: what did MJ do to Duncan anyway? Win 2 regular season games, apparently? And?
*Kareem: what did MJ do to Kareem? Kareem was winning chips with MJ in the league, not vice versa.
*Russell: what does MJ have to do with Russell? Russell retired 16 years before MJ's rookie year.
*Laimbeer: see Isiah.
*Salley: see Isiah, also won a chip with Jordan.
*Oscar Robertson: retired in 1974, 11 seasons before MJ's first.
*Wilt: similar story as Oscar, Russell.

[Jasper]

https://fadeawayworld.net/2020/05/24/kareem-abdul-jabbar-michael-jordan-is-not-the-greatest-player-ever/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=rojXqmsYRWQ&feature=emb_logo

:applause:

Mr Barkley on Dans show stated that there were very good players , and then very very very great players.... many in his eyes were alpha dogs.
Kareem is an alpha ,, but MJ is the goat...

I have said it many times ,, MJ could of won at least 9 chips , if he did not go to baseball
The demise of his historic career was the bulls front office.

[LostCause]

Doc Tivers just weighed in the other day and said MJ is the best he’s ever seen

John Salley also said a couple weeks ago that he’s given MJ shit before but MJ is the GOAT

People have different opinions. That’s not controversial. Will there be a thread every time someone has an opinion that confirms or denies your own?

[hateraid]

Doc Tivers just weighed in the other day and said MJ is the best he’s ever seen

John Salley also said a couple weeks ago that he’s given MJ shit before but MJ is the GOAT

People have different opinions. That’s not controversial. Will there be a thread every time someone has an opinion that confirms or denies your own?

Funny, this is my sentiment yet you're probably one of the top 10 posters who suppress a difference of opinion.

[DoctorP]

oh yea? he said that? wow :lol

[SATAN]

People have different opinions. That’s not controversial. Will there be a thread every time someone has an opinion that confirms or denies your own?

You already know the answer to this

[LostCause]

Funny, this is my sentiment yet you're probably one of the top 10 posters who suppress a difference of opinion.

I mean if you feel that way that's you but I don't really care for people having different opinions. I'm pretty sure my post history reflects that. I usually just step in when information is being falsely presented (ie, half truths) or there's some clear hypocrisy

I think you're confusing my having Jordan as GOAT and supporting that position if challenged with "suppressing a difference of opinion". Never done that. I debate people with different opinions, which is cool, but I don't attempt to suppress anyone. I've acknowledged that LeBrons claim to being GOAT is just as strong, same as Kareem etc, since I first joined the forum a couple years ago. Not opposed to folks who have Russell or Wilt as their GOATs either

[DoctorP]

Kareems right, I never saw these dudes play much so he can never be proven wrong. but old people usually exagerrate things in their brain.

who knows?

there should be respect for the elders tho...