Stephen Curry or Magic Johnson?

[Stephonit]

I pick Curry.

[Wally450]

Give me Mario Chalmers in the Finals over Steph Curry.

[Dr Hawk]

Magic, of course. Not even remotely close. They belong to completely different tiers.

[Manny98]

Give me Curry over any point guard ever

GOAT shooter, much better without the ball in his hands than Magic meaning he can play off other stars better and he has a much higher offensive gravity

[Stephonit]

Magic, of course. Not even remotely close. They belong to completely different tiers.

If they are on different tiers it is Curry that is on the higher one.

https://backpicks.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Bird-Big-4-PS.png

[Lebron23]

The one with 3 mvp, 3 finals mvp, and 5 championship rings.

[StrongLurk]

Magic, but it's closer than people think.

[Monta Ellis MVP]

If they are on different tiers it is Curry that is on the higher one.

https://backpicks.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Bird-Big-4-PS.png

These advanced statistics are very interesting. It helps put things in perspective that most fans like me would miss even if we did watch every single game that Steph Curry and Magic Johnson played.

[Stephonit]

The one with 3 mvp, 3 finals mvp, and 5 championship rings.

3 MVPs that were kind of weak if truth be told. There is only one season I would consider he was convincingly the best player in the regular season. A finals MVP that was stolen from his teammate. 5 rings is easier to get when from day one you are playing next to a player considered to be the best ever.

[Jordan96]

Curry still needs to pass CP3 all time, it’s close but maybe he can get there before he retires

[Stephonit]

Curry still needs to pass CP3 all time, it’s close but maybe he can get there before he retires

Maybe CP3 can get to a finals once before he retires before Curry adds to 5 finals appearances. Chances for even one MVP though for CP3 are slim no matter how you look at it.

[Stanley Kobrick]

The one with multiple iconic playoff moments and finals mvps

[Rico2016]

3 MVPs that were kind of weak if truth be told. There is only one season I would consider he was convincingly the best player in the regular season. A finals MVP that was stolen from his teammate. 5 rings is easier to get when from day one you are playing next to a player considered to be the best ever.

Magic stole the 1980 FMVP (maybe), but 1988 was stolen from him, so it's a wash. STILLL 3

[r0drig0lac]

Magic, of course. Not even remotely close. They belong to completely different tiers.

ding ding

[SouBeachTalents]

Really surprised at OP's pick tbh

[RRR3]

Really surprised at OP's pick tbh
The thread about Curry having no iconic playoff moments has driven him completely insane. Now he's babbling about Curry being better than Michael Jordan :biggums:

[Stephonit]

The thread about Curry having no iconic playoff moments has driven him completely insane. Now he's babbling about Curry being better than Michael Jordan :biggums:

Baby steps. Magic first.

[imdaman99]

:lol I don't like Magic, thought he came in an obvious situation where he was gonna be successful as hell so I def think he's overrated. But he's still better than Curry. Maybe, just an outside shot this changes by the time Curry retires but he's not close yet.

[RRR3]

Baby steps. Magic first.
Not happening. Magic performed in the finals.

[theman93]

Magic and it's not close tbh

Magic: 20/7/11 - 61% TS
Curry: 24/5/7 - 62.4% TS

PER:
Magic - 24.1
Curry - 23.8

WS/48:
Magic - .225
Curry - .207

BPM:
Magic - 7.5
Curry - 6.4

All-Star Teams:
Magic - 12 in 13 years
Curry - 6 in 11 years

All-NBA Teams:
Magic - 10 in 13 years
Curry - 6 in 11 years

MVP's:
Magic - 3 in 13 years
Curry - 2 in 11 years

FMVP's:
Magic - 3 in 7 championship appearances
Curry - 0 in 4 championship appearances

Finals W/L
Magic - 5-2
Curry - 3-1

[Stephonit]

Not happening. Magic performed in the finals.

One of them is among the top 10 finals career scorers—and it isn't Magic.

https://i.ibb.co/09wXFbr/Magic-Johnson-1986-87-vs-Stephen-Curry-2016-17-vs-Larry-Bird-1985-86-Playoffs.png

[Stephonit]

Magic and it's not close tbh

Magic: 20/7/11 - 61% TS
Curry: 24/5/7 - 62.4% TS

PER:
Magic - 24.1
Curry - 23.8

WS/48:
Magic - .225
Curry - .207

BPM:
Magic - 7.5
Curry - 6.4

All-Star Teams:
Magic - 12 in 13 years
Curry - 6 in 11 years

All-NBA Teams:
Magic - 10 in 13 years
Curry - 6 in 11 years

MVP's:
Magic - 3 in 13 years
Curry - 2 in 11 years

FMVP's:
Magic - 3 in 7 championship appearances
Curry - 0 in 4 championship appearances

Finals W/L
Magic - 5-2
Curry - 3-1

Getting to play with a teammate considered the greatest of all-time from the first season of your career is really helpful in that regard. Magic's rings without Kareem: 0.

[RRR3]

Getting to play with a teammate considered the greatest of all-time from the first season of your career is really helpful in that regard. Magic's rings without Kareem: 0.
Curry's rings facing teams not decimated by injuries to their key players without Durant: 0

[theman93]

Getting to play with a teammate considered the greatest of all-time from the first season of your career is really helpful in that regard. Magic's rings without Kareem: 0.

This only has to do with Finals W/L, which we know isn't everything which is why I also listed advanced statistics, All-Star appearances, All-NBA teams, MVP's, and FMVP's.

In GS' 3 championships Curry had 0 FMVP's. Is LA's 5 championships Magic had 3. In other words, when their teams did win Magic was more important to his team winning the Finals than Curry. Magic also blows him out of the water in All-Star appearances and All-NBA honors, while also having more MVP's to his name.

[Stephonit]

Curry's rings facing teams not decimated by injuries to their key players without Durant: 0

Curry's opposition in the Western Conference was far superior to what Magic faced in what is generally accepted as his best year:

Nuggets 37-45
Warriors 42-40
SuperSonics 39-43

Did face the 59-23 Celtics in the finals but only after the Celtics had battled through Jordan and two 7 game series against the Bucks and Pistons.


This only has to do with Finals W/L, which we know isn't everything which is why I also listed advanced statistics, All-Star appearances, All-NBA teams, MVP's, and FMVP's.

In GS' 3 championships Curry had 0 FMVP's. Is LA's 5 championships Magic had 3. In other words, when their teams did win Magic was more important to his team winning the Finals than Curry. Magic also blows him out of the water in All-Star appearances and All-NBA honors, while also having more MVP's to his name.

You can weight the votes of 11 media members very highly if you wish but considering they made a mockery of the award by changing their minds and giving it to Magic the first time because he was there to receive the award and Kareem wasn't I really don't see why. The All-Star awards as ridiculous as they are are probably more noteworthy and even those are influenced by the big market advantage baked in to those recipients. All-NBA is the most serious of the lot and again it helped Magic having a high profile from the start of his career.

When you come to the meat and potatoes of their careers it is Curry who stands out as being a tier above: He led a perennial losing team to one that set all-time records.

[Axe]

The other old player whose jersey number doesn't end in zero.

[theman93]

Curry's opposition in the Western Conference was far superior to what Magic faced in what is generally accepted as his best year:

Nuggets 37-45
Warriors 42-40
SuperSonics 39-43

Did face the 59-23 Celtics in the finals but only after the Celtics had battled through Jordan and two 7 game series against the Bucks and Pistons.



You can weight the votes of 11 media members very highly if you wish but considering they made a mockery of the award by changing their minds and giving it to Magic the first time because he was there to receive the award and Kareem wasn't I really don't see why. The All-Star awards as ridiculous as they are are probably more noteworthy and even those are influenced by the big market advantage baked in to those recipients. All-NBA is the most serious of the lot and again it helped Magic having a high profile from the start of his career.

When you come to the meat and potatoes of their careers it is Curry who stands out as being a tier above: He led a perennial losing team to one that set all-time records.

Yeah I mean your really just making excuses at this point. Magic contributed more to winning, was the more efficient player, was the better defender, was a more valuable player in the Finals, and is more decorated with accolades/awards.

[Axe]

Yeah I mean your really just making excuses at this point. Magic contributed more to winning, was the more efficient player, was the better defender, was a more valuable player in the Finals, and is more decorated with accolades/awards.
It's so obvious the guy you quoted has no clue about what he's trying to point out whatsoever lol

[light]

Magic is more useful because of his size. If Curry isn't making his threes you probably wouldnt even want to play him.

[Stephonit]

Yeah I mean your really just making excuses at this point. Magic contributed more to winning, was the more efficient player, was the better defender, was a more valuable player in the Finals, and is more decorated with accolades/awards.

Magic once led a team that was stacked with veteran players to a 65-win season in a weak conference. Curry led a team of conference finals first-timers to a 67-win season and then followed that up with two more 67+ win seasons. I don't really see Magic contributing to more winning. Win shares? Curry creates many plays due to his gravity for which he gets no credit in the assists column upon which win shares relies. Curry wasn't given the reins to the team early on either unlike Magic so his numbers started low but when the team was clearly Curry's to lead after his injury we get a clearer comparison with Magic showing more consistency but Curry having a higher level. Efficiency? Magic is efficient but not to the degree Curry is and Curry is more efficient on far higher volume. If Magic is a better defender there isn't much evidence I'm aware of other than supposition. Magic's superior value in the finals is based on what? The opinions of a small group of writers who sold out? Not scoring. Not leading a team of first-timers who didn't show the ability before he came along. Magic gets a boost from accolades from being on the high profile Lakers while Curry was ignored as an all-star selection on the Warriors despite producing MVP Nash numbers. Unreliable and inferior indicator.

[LoneyROY7]

OP, you don't seem to be very pragmatic when it comes to Stephen Curry. You seem to be far too emotionally invested.

It really hurts your credibility when it comes to discussing his basketball exploits.

[Monta Ellis MVP]

Magic once led a team that was stacked with veteran players to a 65-win season in a weak conference. Curry led a team of conference finals first-timers to a 67-win season and then followed that up with two more 67+ win seasons. I don't really see Magic contributing to more winning. Win shares? Curry creates many plays due to his gravity for which he gets no credit in the assists column upon which win shares relies. Curry wasn't given the reins to the team early on either unlike Magic so his numbers started low but when the team was clearly Curry's to lead after his injury we get a clearer comparison with Magic showing more consistency but Curry having a higher level. Efficiency? Magic is efficient but not to the degree Curry is and Curry is more efficient on far higher volume. If Magic is a better defender there isn't much evidence I'm aware of other than supposition. Magic's superior value in the finals is based on what? The opinions of a small group of writers who sold out? Not scoring. Not leading a team of first-timers who didn't show the ability before he came along.

Curry’s value doesn’t get properly represented through box scores and many other statistics.

[Stephonit]

OP, you don't seem to be very pragmatic when it comes to Stephen Curry. You seem to be far too emotionally invested.

It really hurts your credibility when it comes to discussing his basketball exploits.

Picking Harden over Curry despite the consistent one-sided history between them increases credibility I'm sure.

[Gimmedarock]

I’ve only watched some of Magic’s games. I have trouble with him as a point guard because he lacks quickness & looks pretty basic when it comes to dribbling. Curry kills him offensively but is weak on D. Magic would give you bid edges in rebounding I’d figure. I think I’d go with Curry but I’m not 100% on it.

[LoneyROY7]

Picking Harden over Curry despite the consistent one-sided history between them increases credibility I'm sure.

Are you upset and visibly shaken that some people don't view Curry in the same holy light that you seem to?

Because that appears to be the case.

[Stephonit]

Are you upset and visibly shaken that some people don't view Curry in the same holy light that you seems to?

Because that appears to be the case.

I am very aware that some people view Magic under a luminous halo. I am just knocking some sense into them.

[Axe]

I’ve only watched some of Magic’s games. I have trouble with him as a point guard because he lacks quickness & looks pretty basic when it comes to dribbling.
You can't expect a big 6'9, 220 lbs guy to be as quick as smaller, lighter PGs when it comes to acceleration, boyo.

[RRR3]

Are you upset and visibly shaken that some people don't view Curry in the same holy light that you seem to?

Because that appears to be the case.
He is. The fact that no one besides him thinks Curry has ever had an iconic moment in the playoffs led him to have a 50 page meltdown :oldlol:

[LoneyROY7]

I am very aware that some people view Magic under a luminous halo. I am just knocking some sense into them.

Are you really aware? Because I'm aware that in my near decade of posting on this forum, I can count on my hand the number of Magic Johnson threads created. Magic is a certified legend, but no one on ISH is too interested in discussing him.

You, on the other hand, seem very adamant in creating a narrative for Stephen Curry that most others just don't see as rooted in reality.

[Stephonit]

Are you really aware? Because I'm aware that in my near decade of posting on this forum, I can count on my hand the number of Magic Johnson threads created. Magic is a certified legend, but no one on ISH is too interested in discussing him.

You, on the other hand, seem very adamant in creating a narrative for Stephen Curry that most others just don't see as rooted in reality.

Curry's achievements are rooted in reality. It's the narratives that are floating around that aren't. I'm simply recording the reactions so that people in the future can be shocked and appalled at all the horrible takes they made.

[LoneyROY7]

Curry's achievements are rooted in reality. It's the narratives that are floating around that aren't. I'm simply recording the reactions so that people in the future can be shocked and appalled at all the horrible takes they made.


They could be asking more plausible questions like if Curry could overtake Jordan

I hate to be the one to break such heart-wrenching news, but that kind of take isn't rooted in reality.

[RRR3]

I hate to be the one to break such heart-wrenching news, but that kind of take isn't rooted in reality.
Can't wait for his reaction when Curry makes the playoffs again and loses in the first or second round. Imagine how unhinged he'll get if Curry loses to Houston :oldlol:

[mr4speed]

Magic and it's not close tbh

Magic: 20/7/11 - 61% TS
Curry: 24/5/7 - 62.4% TS

PER:
Magic - 24.1
Curry - 23.8

WS/48:
Magic - .225
Curry - .207

BPM:
Magic - 7.5
Curry - 6.4

All-Star Teams:
Magic - 12 in 13 years
Curry - 6 in 11 years

All-NBA Teams:
Magic - 10 in 13 years
Curry - 6 in 11 years

MVP's:
Magic - 3 in 13 years
Curry - 2 in 11 years

FMVP's:
Magic - 3 in 7 championship appearances
Curry - 0 in 4 championship appearances

Finals W/L
Magic - 5-2
Curry - 3-1

Um = Magic played in 9 Finals and the Lakers won 5 and lost 4. For the 51 games played LA won 24 and lost 27. Besides the 84 Finals and playing poorly in the clutch, Magic was not good in the 83 Finals loss to that great Sixer team. Magic in the 83 Finals shot 40.3 % and had 24 turnovers in the 4 game sweep. The 3 point shot was new for the 79-80 season, but Magic for the first 6 years in the NBA shot 29 for 164 shots for a 17.68%. Magic as a rookie was so poor on defense that he required special coaching as the zone he played at MSU did not prepare him for the pro game. Other point guards were scoring 35 and 40 points on Magic. This is covered in his book "My Life" pages 100-101. And when Detroit faced LA in the Finals, Detroit made a point of attacking Magic as he was LA's weakest defender. Magic's last MVP award in 1990 really should have been awarded to Barkley. Barkley had a higher points per game, rebounds per game, steals per game, blocks per game, field goal %, EFG%, win share, PER, VORP, and had fewer turnovers per game. Magic was not the go to player for the last shot for his team for the first 7 seasons of his career. From his book "Touch" pages 74-76 talking about the options being Kareem, then Jamaal Wilkes, then Norm Nixon. " I just got crumbs, but that was cool; that's all I wanted." My point is this is a very valid argument. I have seen Magic ranked as high as #3 all time ahead of Kareem and I think that ranking is way too high. Curry has changed the game and depending on how he finished his career, he should surpass Magic - IMO.

[Axe]

I hate to be the one to break such heart-wrenching news, but that kind of take isn't rooted in reality.
Hey, don't spoil the little fella's trip.

That's the only thing that's keeping him alive in this board.

[theman93]

Magic once led a team that was stacked with veteran players to a 65-win season in a weak conference. Curry led a team of conference finals first-timers to a 67-win season and then followed that up with two more 67+ win seasons. I don't really see Magic contributing to more winning. Win shares? Curry creates many plays due to his gravity for which he gets no credit in the assists column upon which win shares relies. Curry wasn't given the reins to the team early on either unlike Magic so his numbers started low but when the team was clearly Curry's to lead after his injury we get a clearer comparison with Magic showing more consistency but Curry having a higher level. Efficiency? Magic is efficient but not to the degree Curry is and Curry is more efficient on far higher volume. If Magic is a better defender there isn't much evidence I'm aware of other than supposition. Magic's superior value in the finals is based on what? The opinions of a small group of writers who sold out? Not scoring. Not leading a team of first-timers who didn't show the ability before he came along. Magic gets a boost from accolades from being on the high profile Lakers while Curry was ignored as an all-star selection on the Warriors despite producing MVP Nash numbers. Unreliable and inferior indicator.

Magic is easily the better defender.

DRtg:
Magic - 104
Curry - 107

DWS
Magic - 45.2 in 906 games
Curry - 26.7 in 699 games

DBPM
Magic - 1.6
Curry - 0.4

STL/G
Magic - 1.9
Curry - 1.7

BLK/G
Magic - 0.4
Curry - 0.2

STL Champs
Magic - 2
Curry - 1

Magic's height also makes him the more versatile defender. So that's half the game that Magic is already better than Curry at.

Now let's address the offensive side of the ball. Curry is the better scorer and spacer whereas Magic is the better passer and facilitator. But how do we tell which style is more effective? PER, OBMP, ORtg, and OWS are good metrics, so lets take a look.

PER:
Magic - 24.1
Curry - 23.8

OBPM:
Magic - 5.9
Curry - 6.0

ORtg:
Magic - 121
Curry - 118

OWS:
Magic - 110.6 in 906 games
Curry - 76.5 in in 699 games

So as we can see, Magic's offensive style is more effective. But who was better at their strength? As we know Curry's strength is scoring, and Magic's strength is assisting.

Curry as Scoring Champ: 1x
Magic as Assist Champ: 4x

Magic's superior value in the Finals is obvious since Curry has never won Finals MVP. Your selling out argument is subjective, and therefor fallacious. The facts are that Magic has 3 FMVP's to Curry's 0.

Magic is just better.

[theman93]

Um = Magic played in 9 Finals and the Lakers won 5 and lost 4. For the 51 games played LA won 24 and lost 27. Besides the 84 Finals and playing poorly in the clutch, Magic was not good in the 83 Finals loss to that great Sixer team. Magic in the 83 Finals shot 40.3 % and had 24 turnovers in the 4 game sweep. The 3 point shot was new for the 79-80 season, but Magic for the first 6 years in the NBA shot 29 for 164 shots for a 17.68%. Magic as a rookie was so poor on defense that he required special coaching as the zone he played at MSU did not prepare him for the pro game. Other point guards were scoring 35 and 40 points on Magic. This is covered in his book "My Life" pages 100-101. And when Detroit faced LA in the Finals, Detroit made a point of attacking Magic as he was LA's weakest defender. Magic's last MVP award in 1990 really should have been awarded to Barkley. Barkley had a higher points per game, rebounds per game, steals per game, blocks per game, field goal %, EFG%, win share, PER, VORP, and had fewer turnovers per game. Magic was not the go to player for the last shot for his team for the first 7 seasons of his career. From his book "Touch" pages 74-76 talking about the options being Kareem, then Jamaal Wilkes, then Norm Nixon. " I just got crumbs, but that was cool; that's all I wanted." My point is this is a very valid argument. I have seen Magic ranked as high as #3 all time ahead of Kareem and I think that ranking is way too high. Curry has changed the game and depending on how he finished his career, he should surpass Magic - IMO.

Absolutley none of what you said makes Curry better than Magic.

[Axe]

Magic is easily the better defender.

DRtg:
Magic - 104
Curry - 107

DWS
Magic - 45.2 in 906 games
Curry - 26.7 in 699 games

DBPM
Magic - 1.6
Curry - 0.4

STL/G
Magic - 1.9
Curry - 1.7

BLK/G
Magic - 0.4
Curry - 0.2

STL Champs
Magic - 2
Curry - 1

Magic's height also makes him the more versatile defender. So that's half the game that Magic is already better than Curry at.

Now let's address the offensive side of the ball. Curry is the better scorer and spacer whereas Magic is the better passer and facilitator. But how do we tell which style is more effective? PER, OBMP, ORtg, and OWS are good metrics, so lets take a look.

PER:
Magic - 24.1
Curry - 23.8

OBPM:
Magic - 5.9
Curry - 6.0

ORtg:
Magic - 121
Curry - 118

OWS:
Magic - 110.6 in 906 games
Curry - 76.5 in in 699 games

So as we can see, Magic's offensive style is more effective. But who was better at their strength? As we know Curry's strength is scoring, and Magic's strength is assisting.

Curry as Scoring Champ: 1x
Magic as Assist Champ: 4x

Magic's superior value in the Finals is obvious since Curry has never won Finals MVP. Your selling out argument is subjective, and therefor fallacious. The facts are that Magic has 3 FMVP's to Curry's 0.

Magic is just better.
Roundball_Rock, is that you..

[Stephonit]

Magic is easily the better defender.

DRtg:
Magic - 104
Curry - 107

DWS
Magic - 45.2 in 906 games
Curry - 26.7 in 699 games

DBPM
Magic - 1.6
Curry - 0.4

STL/G
Magic - 1.9
Curry - 1.7

BLK/G
Magic - 0.4
Curry - 0.2

STL Champs
Magic - 2
Curry - 1

Magic's height also makes him the more versatile defender. So that's half the game that Magic is already better than Curry at.

Defensive value is notoriously difficult to measure especially with box score stats. But DWS is derived from DRtg which is derived from box score as is DBPM. You are just being redundant when you list each of them and the box score components.

The Showtime Lakers were never a top defensive team in the league peaking at 5th but usually hovering around 7th. The Warriors were 1st and 2nd on a couple of runs and top 5 in others.





Now let's address the offensive side of the ball. Curry is the better scorer and spacer whereas Magic is the better passer and facilitator. But how do we tell which style is more effective? PER, OBMP, ORtg, and OWS are good metrics, so lets take a look.

PER:
Magic - 24.1
Curry - 23.8

OBPM:
Magic - 5.9
Curry - 6.0

ORtg:
Magic - 121
Curry - 118

OWS:
Magic - 110.6 in 906 games
Curry - 76.5 in in 699 games

So as we can see, Magic's offensive style is more effective. But who was better at their strength? As we know Curry's strength is scoring, and Magic's strength is assisting.

Curry as Scoring Champ: 1x
Magic as Assist Champ: 4x

Magic's superior value in the Finals is obvious since Curry has never won Finals MVP. Your selling out argument is subjective, and therefor fallacious. The facts are that Magic has 3 FMVP's to Curry's 0.

Magic is just better.

Magic may be a better passer but he isn't a better facilitator. Curry is woefully underrated as a playmaker because none of the standard metrics measure Curry's gravity which can crack defenses open more efficiently than even Magic's passes. As stated before the stats you are using count passing assists but not the kinds of assists Curry imparts with his gravity, ORTG especially since it relies on possessions. Even then a comparison of PER, OBPM, and OWS shows that while Magic may look more consistent with a higher average he never reaches the heights Curry does in those metrics. Magic was never first in the league for PER or OBPM. Curry has been first in the league in all three and in those times was also first in BPM and WS and WS/48. Curry showed a higher ceiling.

[tpols]

A comparison using individual ORTG between magic and curry is going to be skewed because ORTG factors in assists, but not hockey assists, and Chef used to basically create a halfcourt 4 on 3 fastbreak for his guys all the time.

Magic played with MORE talent in a weaker conference.

Kareem & Worthy >>> Dray & klay...

yet, whose team won 73 games?

https://media0.giphy.com/media/SijkUrjMEcCVW/source.gif

[Turbo Slayer]

A comparison using individual ORTG between magic and curry is going to be skewed because ORTG factors in assists, but not hockey assists, and Chef used to basically create a halfcourt 4 on 3 fastbreak for his guys all the time.

Magic played with MORE talent in a weaker conference.

Kareem & Worthy >>> Dray & klay...

yet, whose team won 73 games?

https://media0.giphy.com/media/SijkUrjMEcCVW/source.gif Says the guy who said that ORtg should be used for individual comparisons now stfu.

[RogueBorg]

Getting to play with a teammate considered the greatest of all-time from the first season of your career is really helpful in that regard. Magic's rings without Kareem: 0.

Kareem sat out game 6 of the 1980 NBA Finals due to injury. Magic led Los Angeles with 42 points and 15 rebounds to a blowout victory over Dr. J and the Sixers for the championship in Magic's rookie year. Magic was every bit as good as advertised.

[Turbo Slayer]

Magic.

[tpols]

Says the guy who said that ORtg should be used for individual comparisons now stfu.

you have to be able to compare apples to apples.

like when i did it for reggie, klay and ray. They play similar styles, somewhat similar volume, but massive efficiency difference.

the difference between magic and curry according to the stats that guy posted above is 121 to 118. Reggie to Klay was 121 to 107.

Huuuge difference dummy.

[Stephonit]

Kareem & Worthy >>> Dray & klay...


Not to mention

Micheal Cooper (DPOY, 8x All-Defensive)
Jamaal Wilkes (3x All-Star, 2x All-Defensive, ROY)
Norm Nixon (2x All-Star)

and others were capable teammates in their own right.

[Turbo Slayer]

you have to be able to compare apples to apples.

like when i did it for reggie, klay and ray. They play similar styles, somewhat similar volume, but massive efficiency difference.

the difference between magic and curry according to the stats that guy posted above is 121 to 118. Reggie to Klay was 121 to 107.

Huuuge difference dummy. The **** you talking about? It's not a massive difference. It is small but alas. Klay and Reggie (Career)

TS%

Klay- .575

Reggie- .614

EFG% (Per Game)

Klay- .551

Reggie- .544

It's close.

[Monta Ellis MVP]

The **** you talking about? It's not a massive difference. It is small but alas. Klay and Reggie (Career)

TS%

Klay- .575

Reggie- .614

EFG% (Per Game)

Klay- .551

Reggie- .544

It's close.

Compare their TS to league average. A straight comparison isn’t accurate because of the differences in era. Klay’s efficiency would be a lot lower in the 90’s.

[RogueBorg]

Magic is easily the better defender.

DRtg:
Magic - 104
Curry - 107

DWS
Magic - 45.2 in 906 games
Curry - 26.7 in 699 games

DBPM
Magic - 1.6
Curry - 0.4

STL/G
Magic - 1.9
Curry - 1.7

BLK/G
Magic - 0.4
Curry - 0.2

STL Champs
Magic - 2
Curry - 1

Magic's height also makes him the more versatile defender. So that's half the game that Magic is already better than Curry at.

Now let's address the offensive side of the ball. Curry is the better scorer and spacer whereas Magic is the better passer and facilitator. But how do we tell which style is more effective? PER, OBMP, ORtg, and OWS are good metrics, so lets take a look.

PER:
Magic - 24.1
Curry - 23.8

OBPM:
Magic - 5.9
Curry - 6.0

ORtg:
Magic - 121
Curry - 118

OWS:
Magic - 110.6 in 906 games
Curry - 76.5 in in 699 games

So as we can see, Magic's offensive style is more effective. But who was better at their strength? As we know Curry's strength is scoring, and Magic's strength is assisting.

Curry as Scoring Champ: 1x
Magic as Assist Champ: 4x

Magic's superior value in the Finals is obvious since Curry has never won Finals MVP. Your selling out argument is subjective, and therefor fallacious. The facts are that Magic has 3 FMVP's to Curry's 0.

Magic is just better.

:bowdown: Brilliant post

[RogueBorg]

Um = Magic played in 9 Finals and the Lakers won 5 and lost 4. Curry has changed the game and depending on how he finished his career, he should surpass Magic - IMO.

Curry's teams lost to Lebron and Kyrie. I'm not going to hold Toronto against him because of injuries.

Magic's teams lost to Boston with 4 eventual Hall of Famers, Philadelphia with 4 eventual Hall of Famers, and the Bad Boy Pistons with 3 eventual Hall of Famers.

Who do you think had the tougher road?

[Stephonit]

Curry's teams lost to Lebron and Kyrie. I'm not going to hold Toronto against him because of injuries.

Magic's teams lost to Boston with 4 eventual Hall of Famers, Philadelphia with 4 eventual Hall of Famers, and the Bad Boy Pistons with 3 eventual Hall of Famers.

Who do you think had the tougher road?

Did you see the Lakers path to the finals those years? Seldom met an MVP candidate and when they did it was Alex English, 2nd year Karl Malone, or Clyde Drexler. I guess winning over Olajuwon even with Olajuwon's famously weak teams is notable but then they did lose as the favorites to the Olajuwon Rockets as well.

[tpols]

Not to mention

Micheal Cooper (DPOY, 8x All-Defensive)
Jamaal Wilkes (3x All-Star, 2x All-Defensive, ROY)
Norm Nixon (2x All-Star)

and others were capable teammates in their own right.


Shit... thinking about it a bit more... magic might've had more help even after durant joined the team.


early/mid 80s kareem > rental KD
James Worthy > Klay
Michael Cooper = Dray
Jamaal Wilkes & Norm Nixon => iggy & livingston


And of course the 80s West was < 10s West by quite a bit.

When you look at the individual numbers, team peak, teammate strength, and competition things start to swing in Chef's favor.

that's nuts....

[RogueBorg]

Did you see the Lakers path to the finals those years? Seldom met an MVP candidate and when they did it was Alex English, 2nd year Karl Malone, or Clyde Drexler. I guess winning over Olajuwon even with Olajuwon's famously weak teams is notable but then they did lose as the favorites to the Olajuwon Rockets as well.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/80/30/0d/80300df199288e4fbb53672bdd6e57f4.jpg

The Twin Towers said hello

[tpols]

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/80/30/0d/80300df199288e4fbb53672bdd6e57f4.jpg

The Twin Towers said hello

Magic's teams generally had no opposition in getting to the Finals... it was a free path.

Curry's teams didn't have that. Thunder Spurs Rockets etc. were all far more resistance than Lakers had.

Sure LA had to face great teams in the Finals. So did Golden State seeing Lebron a supposed top 3 GOAT and yet another "big 3" every single year.

So overall Curry had it harder competition wise.

[theman93]

Defensive value is notoriously difficult to measure especially with box score stats. But DWS is derived from DRtg which is derived from box score as is DBPM. You are just being redundant when you list each of them and the box score components.

The Showtime Lakers were never a top defensive team in the league peaking at 5th but usually hovering around 7th. The Warriors were 1st and 2nd on a couple of runs and top 5 in others.




Magic may be a better passer but he isn't a better facilitator. Curry is woefully underrated as a playmaker because none of the standard metrics measure Curry's gravity which can crack defenses open more efficiently than even Magic's passes. As stated before the stats you are using count passing assists but not the kinds of assists Curry imparts with his gravity, ORTG especially since it relies on possessions. Even then a comparison of PER, OBPM, and OWS shows that while Magic may look more consistent with a higher average he never reaches the heights Curry does in those metrics. Magic was never first in the league for PER or OBPM. Curry has been first in the league in all three and in those times was also first in BPM and WS and WS/48. Curry showed a higher ceiling.

So if we cant use box scores, stats, or advanced metrics to compare the two, and we can’t use Magic’s accolades and championships as any sort of barrometer, how are we supposed to compare the two? Subjectively? Ok fine. Magic was better and nothing you say counts.

[Turbo Slayer]

Magic's teams generally had no opposition in getting to the Finals... it was a free path.

Curry's teams didn't have that. Thunder Spurs Rockets etc. were all far more resistance than Lakers had.

Sure LA had to face great teams in the Finals. So did Golden State seeing Lebron a supposed top 3 GOAT and yet another "big 3" every single year.

So overall Curry had it harder competition wise. ****ing idiotic. In 2015, most of the teams GSW was facing had a injured PG.

[Stephonit]

****ing idiotic. In 2015, most of the teams GSW was facing had a injured PG.

All of them had a First Team All-NBAer 3 of whom were top 5 MVP vote getters. GSW were also down their highest paid player for some of those series. It's really eye-rolling how Curry's critics create their narratives. They call strong weak and weak strong.

[mr4speed]

Absolutley none of what you said makes Curry better than Magic.

You are correct. My post was directed at the idea that Magic was somehow untouchable and Curry was not in the conversation. There were weaknesses in Magic's game and for him to be ranked as a #3 goat or #5 goat for me is just wrong. Curry is a better ball handler and much better shooter. Magic never had a 50-40-90 season. Magic for his first 6 years shot 17% from the 3 point line. His outside shot from distance was a liability. It will depend on how Curry finishes his career. If he wins a couple of championships and FMVP's, I think he will surpass Magic. Curry is young enough to pull it off IMO.

[Axe]

****ing idiotic. In 2015, most of the teams GSW was facing had a injured PG.
Yup.

Even if i consider 2015 as their most legit ring in the last five years, i do agree that their run during that year was a lucky one for them.

[Round Mound]

Steph all he was on Magic is shooting and ballhandling. Magic was the better total player: Coast to Coast Scorer, Slasher, Finisher, Creator of Offense, Passer, Rebounder, Post Player (baby hook) etc

[Stephonit]

Steph all he was on Magic is shooting and ballhandling. Magic was the better total player: Coast to Coast Scorer, Slasher, Finisher, Creator of Offense, Passer, Rebounder, Post Player (baby hook) etc


When did Magic lead the league in scoring? When did Magic lead the league in % makes from within 3 feet of the basket? When did Magic have a 50-point game? Magic Johnson isn't in the same conversation with Curry as a scorer whether it be shooting, slashing or finishing.

http://bkref.com/tiny/s2OQf

http://bkref.com/tiny/ar1MW

[RRR3]

OP is jealous of Ayesha.

[SATAN]

Can you at least give these kind of threads some context instead of just expecting people to argue about 2 players who played completely differently in completely different eras? What are we supposed to be comparing? Put Magic on the dynasty Warriors team in place of Steph and they are getting chips. Put Steph on the old Lakers team and...well it's hard to even imagine, in all honesty. One player can guard every position but what is the ****ing context here? Steph, despite his dribbling and shooting skills, would likely get his ass kicked if it were one on one but might work better in certain systems in real meaningful games.

I'd take Magic by a long shot but the context is important.

[Stephonit]

Context is however you wish to define it. But if you insist on one: you can trade for one of them on your team who would you rather have if you want to win championships?

[SATAN]

It really depends what other players I already have and what systems I'm running already. The thread is silly.

If I were getting one for the current Lakers team, it would be Steph. For the current Spurs, likely Magic.

[Stephonit]

Using that neat PIPM tool LostCause provided:

https://i.ibb.co/tD5bHX6/Multi-Year-PIPM-Curry-vs-Magic.png (https://ibb.co/0r3fntL)

[Round Mound]

When did Magic lead the league in scoring? When did Magic lead the league in % makes from within 3 feet of the basket? When did Magic have a 50-point game? Magic Johnson isn't in the same conversation with Curry as a scorer whether it be shooting, slashing or finishing.

http://bkref.com/tiny/s2OQf

http://bkref.com/tiny/ar1MW

Magic pretty much never looked t score but when he did he was great. As a rookie in the finals he had a 42-15-7 when Kareem was out and in 86-87 when Kareem was declining he averaged 23.9. Magic could score when he wanted to.

[NBAGOAT]

magic for now because of longer prime. curry can catch him however

[plowking]

Curry is comfortably the better player IMO.

He changes games in ways Magic couldn't.

Talk about winning, and Steph is the ultimate winner who can fit in a team in which way. He won 3 titles on the greatest assembly of talent ever. On the Warriors. Not the Lakers, who ultimately everyone wants to play for, but the Warriors. He didn't come into the league getting to play with a player who was considered the GOAT by many at the time either.

Magic, more than anyone has benefited from time passing and history being on his side. As we have gone on, and for some reason titles being looked at as trumping actual play on court, his status in basketball has somewhat been revised and revisited more than anyone. He was never a better player than Bird when they played, but now, he is universally ranked higher, and no one argues the point since it is all about titles apparently.

[Axe]

Curry only flourished thanks to steve kerr's arrival to the warriors.

[GimmeThat]

I think if they tried to use the spin move against one another, they'd come out with Stephen Curry being the skinniest dom ever, and Magic near being the fattest sub ever.

[999Guy]

Curry from 15-17 at his apex was better to me. 15 and 16 Curry was a crazy player. Good defender on top of all the other shit on offense.

Magic was terrifying though. I was watching the 87 Finals. Like it was a 4th quarter, and I got that feeling of when you see/hear/think about something a certain way, and you have an epiphany. And you just see the entire scope of something more clearly.

I got that feeling in the 87 finals, it was in the garden, maybe game 4. You could just feel the dread when Magic has the ball late in this game. I got nervous when he posted up 18 ft from the basket and directed some traffic. I really don’t know why people want to boil 4th quarter offense to purely who scores. I felt nervous for Boston because you just knew this guy was gonna put insane pressure on that defense with his offense. The passing, post-up, offensive rebounding, something.

He found Kareem on a lob I think, maybe Worthy, and was scoring finding seams to pass and closed them out. Bird was ultra clutch and barely missed the game winner. But the level of pressure was something above pretty much any pure scorer(except Curry). Magic was the essence of high level offense.

Anyway, Curry’s vibe(because that’s what that is describing, I’m not really describing anything of substance), is this warping unpredictable, uncontainable lightning rod, that slow burns you by making guys blow rotations, leave other guys open, lure bigs away from protecting the rim and boxing out in the meantime.

Comparing raw levels of play, Curry peaked higher in 2016, and probably 2017 postseason. But Magic was healthier. Curry gets the edge because of peak play and he can fit next to other talent way better to me.

That’s just as players though. Magic definitely has a better career to date. But is that really fun to talk about?

[GimmeThat]

if what I said were true, Ayesha Curry should make a sex tape with Andrew Wiggins to show Stephen Curry what's up. Andrew Wiggins do it, so he could get respect from Stephen Curry's friend on the court and have the ball being passed to him more often. Klay Thompson and Draymond Green should make Ayesha Curry eat their shit, so that they still have a chances with other women coming out of this.

What were my intentions on making these suggestions? To sell more dildos, which I believe the mentioned participants would find that to be an honorable cause.

Edit: also, this might make me viagra, so prepare for all those views on the sex tape Ayesha Curry!

[RogueBorg]

if what I said were true, Ayesha Curry should make a sex tape with Andrew Wiggins to show Stephen Curry what's up. Andrew Wiggins do it, so he could get respect from Stephen Curry's friend on the court and have the ball being passed to him more often. Klay Thompson and Draymond Green should make Ayesha Curry eat their shit, so that they still have a chances with other women coming out of this.

What were my intentions on making these suggestions? To sell more dildos, which I believe the mentioned participants would find that to be an honorable cause.

Edit: also, this might make me viagra, so prepare for all those views on the sex tape Ayesha Curry!

Are you drunk?

[Stephonit]

Magic pretty much never looked t score but when he did he was great. As a rookie in the finals he had a 42-15-7 when Kareem was out and in 86-87 when Kareem was declining he averaged 23.9. Magic could score when he wanted to.

There is a difference between being a good scorer and being arguably the most efficient high volume scorer ever. A statement like Curry being the greatest shooter ever is actually dripping with faint praise when it draws away attention from the fact that Curry is among the greatest scorers ever. Curry has had a higher scoring rate than even someone like Durant. Indeed on an efficiency basis one could argue Curry is a superior offensive force than Jordan.

[PP34Deuce]

One is a top 20 all time player and one is top 7. I'll take the top 7. Magic for all his shooting woes, was still an athletic high IQ 6'8 PG who had a good post game. Steph's legacy is an unbelievable 2 year prime. He's a top 20 all time guy and has leapfrogged other great PG's...

[RogueBorg]

There is a difference between being a good scorer and being arguably the most efficient high volume scorer ever. A statement like Curry being the greatest shooter ever is actually dripping with faint praise when it draws away attention from the fact that Curry is among the greatest scorers ever. Curry has had a higher scoring rate than even someone like Durant. Indeed on an efficiency basis one could argue Curry is a superior offensive force than Jordan.

Steph is a regular season all-time great. The post-season is another story. There's a running joke thread about Steph's lack of a big post-season moment.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/QIrr0YRmoEFaaI0BpQMwQQ2sTXOMH6svGgJyGnxnN3Y20J0z_-Z8uls8HMzVDslyvLdsA8lJ7iMc0tqmUNQRUZpLFFuKymnw_H_E vLtDzlTN-K2qcSTqeG0TnBsYim5A_yuv_UgQKyJi8rGem224OAcm76nh0Q

If you were honest with yourself, ask, does Steph have anything like this on his resume? I know it's one shot, but when comparing two greats and it's close you have to nit-pick one over the other.

[Stephonit]

Steph is a regular season all-time great. The post-season is another story. There's a running joke thread about Steph's lack of a big post-season moment.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/QIrr0YRmoEFaaI0BpQMwQQ2sTXOMH6svGgJyGnxnN3Y20J0z_-Z8uls8HMzVDslyvLdsA8lJ7iMc0tqmUNQRUZpLFFuKymnw_H_E vLtDzlTN-K2qcSTqeG0TnBsYim5A_yuv_UgQKyJi8rGem224OAcm76nh0Q

If you were honest with yourself, ask, does Steph have anything like this on his resume? I know it's one shot, but when comparing two greats and it's close you have to nit-pick one over the other.

Really?

https://i.ibb.co/BrBF9ST/NBA-Career-Finals-Leaders-and-Records-for-Points-Per-Game-Basketball-Reference-com.png

Curry appears at number 10 all-time in average PPG for his career in NBA Finals. Higher than Kareem and higher than Worthy who are in the top 25. Where is Magic?


https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/pts_per_g_career_finals.html


Oh right number 41.


https://www.gifgen.com/gif/WPGKhZR3.gif


There is a running joke in that thread. I just don't think people understand what the joke is.

[scuzzy]

curry has no memorable playoff moments


magic has an entire portfolio of them

[Stephonit]

curry has no memorable playoff moments


magic has an entire portfolio of them

LOL!

[RRR3]

LOL!
Hate to break it to you, but Steph isn't as good as you want him to be when the playoffs come around.

[Stephonit]

Hate to break it to you, but Steph isn't as good as you want him to be when the playoffs come around.

Good enough to go to five straight finals and win three of them.

[Turbo Slayer]

Really?

https://i.ibb.co/BrBF9ST/NBA-Career-Finals-Leaders-and-Records-for-Points-Per-Game-Basketball-Reference-com.png

Curry appears at number 10 all-time in average PPG for his career in NBA Finals. Higher than Kareem and higher than Worthy who are in the top 25. Where is Magic?


https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/pts_per_g_career_finals.html


Oh right number 41.


https://www.gifgen.com/gif/WPGKhZR3.gif


There is a running joke in that thread. I just don't think people understand what the joke is. So Rick Barry is the greatest of all time. Got it.

[RRR3]

Good enough to go to five straight finals and win three of them.
Thanks KD.

[Axe]

Good enough to go to five straight finals and win three of them.
What was steph curry again without the tutelage of steve kerr?

[Stephonit]

What was steph curry again without the tutelage of steve kerr?

What is Steve Kerr's coaching record without Stephen Curry?

[Axe]

What is Steve Kerr's coaching record without Stephen Curry?
You're pathetic, comrade. :roll:

[Stephonit]

Thanks KD.

I was going to say Curry probably owes KD a bit for the 2018 ring because of Curry's injury that year but then I remembered this fun fact:

Stephen Curry still led the league in the 2017-2018 combined regular and post season for raw plus-minus despite missing 1/3 of the season.


https://i.ibb.co/Xsn9Dk1/Plus-Minus-2018.png (https://ibb.co/bB4xFRT)

[tpols]

I was going to say Curry probably owes KD a bit for the 2018 ring because of Curry's injury that year but then I remembered this fun fact:

Stephen Curry still led the league in the 2017-2018 combined regular and post season for raw plus-minus despite missing 1/3 of the season.


https://i.ibb.co/Xsn9Dk1/Plus-Minus-2018.png (https://ibb.co/bB4xFRT)

lmao...

the dubs ball movement went to shit when they replaced chef with durant.

They went from dynasty to just another decent playoff team without him.

[Monta Ellis MVP]

lmao...

the dubs ball movement went to shit when they replaced chef with durant.

They went from dynasty to just another decent playoff team without him.

Some of those games were ugly to watch. I’m not a Warriors fan but I could appreciate their style of basketball.

[Axe]

Some of those games were ugly to watch. I’m not a Warriors fan but I could appreciate their style of basketball.
Oh we know you very well, welfarefan.

[BigShotBob]

Warriors definitely didn't have "beautiful" ball movement in game 6 and 7 of the 2016 Finals to get them over the hump. Seems like a moot point to bring up KD having issues scoring with literal G-League talent in place of Steph and even Draymond injuries. All he had was Klay and nobody else during those stretch of games, not even Iggy.

Hate to harp on the 2016 Finals but that was very bad for Steph no matter how you slice it. I do believe that he wasn't completely 100% but he had to do better and he couldn't even outplay Kyrie.

[Stephonit]

Warriors definitely didn't have "beautiful" ball movement in game 6 and 7 of the 2016 Finals to get them over the hump. Seems like a moot point to bring up KD having issues scoring with literal G-League talent in place of Steph and even Draymond injuries. All he had was Klay and nobody else during those stretch of games, not even Iggy.

Hate to harp on the 2016 Finals but that was very bad for Steph no matter how you slice it. I do believe that he wasn't completely 100% but he had to do better and he couldn't even outplay Kyrie.

You're right Curry was awful on Kyrie.

https://www.gifgen.com/gif/AUHRpQj9.gif

[Reggie43]

Magic would probably end up the Goat if he played with the offense friendly modern rules of today.

[Stephonit]

Magic would probably end up the Goat if he played with the offense friendly modern rules of today.

Didn't shoot threes.

[Reggie43]

Didn't shoot threes.

Why does he have to? His game was effective as it is especially if you factor in the no handcheck, freedom of movement modern rules that we have today.

No question he could have developed a decent outside shot if he needed to ala Jason Kidd just to keep the defense honest.

Looking back at the stats I was surprised how high his ft% were, peaking at 91% proving that he had a good enough touch to develop its just that he was already unstoppable enough attacking the basket.

[Monta Ellis MVP]

Magic would probably end up the Goat if he played with the offense friendly modern rules of today.

He might get aids even faster though now because he doesn’t have to hide being gay.

[Stephonit]

Why does he have to? His game was effective as it is especially if you factor in the no handcheck, freedom of movement modern rules that we have today.

No question he could have developed a decent outside shot if he needed to ala Jason Kidd just to keep the defense honest.

Looking back at the stats I was surprised how high his ft% were, peaking at 91% proving that he had a good enough touch to develop its just that he was already unstoppable enough attacking the basket.

Magic's efficiency isn't up there in comparison with Curry's. When Magic took on more of a scoring role later in the Showtime Lakers run his FG% dropped. When looking at why his TS% remained high one cannot help but start to look at his free throw rate suspiciously. It jumped from around 0.49 in 1987-1989 to 0.56 and 0.58 in 1990 and 1991. Makes James Harden look like an underachiever at drawing fouls.

[Reggie43]

Magic's efficiency isn't up there in comparison with Curry's. When Magic took on more of a scoring role later in the Showtime Lakers run his FG% dropped. When looking at why his TS% remained high one cannot help but start to look at his free throw rate suspiciously. It jumped from around 0.49 in 1987-1989 to 0.56 and 0.58 in 1990 and 1991. Makes James Harden look like an underachiever at drawing fouls.
His fg% lowering as he exited his prime is pretty normal stuff unless if the nba changes the rules for you ala steve nash.

You think a 6'9" attacking guard doesnt deserve the fts that he gets? He peaked at 8 fts a game which isnt much for a player of his size, skill and stature.

[Stephonit]

His fg% lowering as he exited his prime is pretty normal stuff unless if the nba changes the rules for you ala steve nash.

You think a 6'9" attacking guard doesnt deserve the fts that he gets? He peaked at 8 fts a game which isnt much for a player of his size, skill and stature.

0.49 is Jordan's average which was pretty steady. 0.56 is a comparable free throw rate to Dwyane Wade's during his peak slashing days. 0.58 is around early Lakers Shaq level.

[Reggie43]

0.49 is Jordan's average which was pretty steady. 0.56 is a comparable free throw rate to Dwyane Wade's during his peak slashing days. 0.58 is around early Lakers Shaq level.

Have you ever stopped to think that maybe he was just that good?

There is a reason why most lists rank him as one of the top five greatest players of all time you know.

[Stephonit]

I stopped to think about it. No Magic wasn't that good.

[Reggie43]

I stopped to think about it. No Magic wasn't that good.

If you cant accept his free throw rate how do you even begin to acknowledge the rest of his game? Is there anything about Magic's game that impresses you or are they all suspicious?

[Axe]

Mj is a better defender than curry

[Bronbron23]

honestly anyone who has curry is an idiot.

[Stephonit]

https://i.ibb.co/0nfdgpy/Playoffs-Advanced-Point-Guards-Comparison.png (https://ibb.co/qDRPtLY)

http://bkref.com/pi/shareit/Ith2J

Curry is better from what I can see.

[Real14]

Magic

[warriorfan]

They are both better suited for their respective eras. Curry has had more impact with changing how the game is played however. His peak is higher than Magic’s. His career isn’t over yet. When it’s all said and done we will look back and say Stephen Curry was the greater point guard.

[Bronbron23]

https://i.ibb.co/0nfdgpy/Playoffs-Advanced-Point-Guards-Comparison.png (https://ibb.co/qDRPtLY)

http://bkref.com/pi/shareit/Ith2J

Curry is better from what I can see.

man f*ck the stats. Magic is better at everything other than scoring to where its a actually pretty close. Magic beat atg teams as the teams best player. Curry beat the heavily injured Cleveland cavaliers who only had 1 all star. Its magic and its not close for now. Curry could change that if he can add to his resume over the next 3 or 4 years but i have a hard time believing hes gonna win anymore.

[RRR3]

Steppedonshit has gone full troll I see. Curry shut Kyrie down now because there is one gif of him stealing the ball from him. **** Kyrie dominating him all series that gif is all that matters. And saying Magic didn’t shoot 3s is just lying. He shot them in his last 3 full seasons, two of which he won MVP in. From 89-91, 31.4% on 2.4 attempts per game, 38.0% on 3.5 attempts per game and 32.0% on 3.2 attempts per game. He was actually 5th in the league in 3s made in the 89-90 season. For the time he was shooting a good amount. He’d probably be shooting about 5-6 a game now.

[FKAri]

Magic would probably end up the Goat if he played with the offense friendly modern rules of today.

Magic absolutely would not look BETTER with today's rules than he did in his time. His game was suited to his time. That's why he was so good then. I don't wanna hear this "he woulda developed a jumpshot if he wanted to" argument. Could say the same about Lebron or Shaq at the FT line. That's now sports works. You don't just "work on it" and start doing it automatically.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Curry getting destroyed in this debate... yikes


lets get back to comparing little steph to the likes of peja stojakovic and kyle korver, that's where he fits in

[Stephonit]

man f*ck the stats. Magic is better at everything other than scoring to where its a actually pretty close. Magic beat atg teams as the teams best player. Curry beat the heavily injured Cleveland cavaliers who only had 1 all star. Its magic and its not close for now. Curry could change that if he can add to his resume over the next 3 or 4 years but i have a hard time believing hes gonna win anymore.

Magic isn't better at scoring. He isn't better at shooting. He isn't better off-ball. Magic doesn't have the impact Curry does on the court.

What were the all-time great teams? The 87 Celtics? The 88 Pistons? Kareem was still around. And then there's Worthy.

Anyway the Eastern teams were killing each other while the Lakers sailed into the finals. On the other hand that 1987 path to the finals looked even easier than the ones LeBron had in the East and that's saying something!

Curry disposed of the 2016 Thunder and 2019 Rockets with Durant not around or playing for the other team.

[Psileas]

man f*ck the stats. Magic is better at everything other than scoring to where its a actually pretty close. Magic beat atg teams as the teams best player. Curry beat the heavily injured Cleveland cavaliers who only had 1 all star. Its magic and its not close for now. Curry could change that if he can add to his resume over the next 3 or 4 years but i have a hard time believing hes gonna win anymore.

Very doubtful he will. Isn't it funny, btw, how in non-Jordan/LeBron related comparisons, used arguments are, for some reason, radically different? Where Jordan vs LeBron vs Kobe are concerned, people are all over comparing their accolades, career stats, their clutch ability and so on. Why isn't something similar happening here? And why is there so much talk about their scoring in contrast to everything else, as if scoring is a PG's main job?
So, we're comparing 5 titles vs 3, 9 Finals trips vs 5, 3 F.MVP's vs 0, 3 r.s. MVP's vs 2, career averages of 20/7/11 vs 24/5/7, not to mention Curry is already as old as Magic was when he retired. Magic being the GOAT floor general vs Curry being the GOAT 3-point shooter.
Curry is a top-3 PG ever, Magic is top-1.

[Stephonit]

Very doubtful he will. Isn't it funny, btw, how in non-Jordan/LeBron related comparisons, used arguments are, for some reason, radically different? Where Jordan vs LeBron vs Kobe are concerned, people are all over comparing their accolades, career stats, their clutch ability and so on. Why isn't something similar happening here? And why is there so much talk about their scoring in contrast to everything else, as if scoring is a PG's main job?
So, we're comparing 5 titles vs 3, 9 Finals trips vs 5, 3 F.MVP's vs 0, 3 r.s. MVP's vs 2, career averages of 20/7/11 vs 24/5/7, not to mention Curry is already as old as Magic was when he retired. Magic being the GOAT floor general vs Curry being the GOAT 3-point shooter.
Curry is a top-3 PG ever, Magic is top-1.

A PG's main job is to make his teammates better. Is there any doubt Curry does that? Curry can match Magic on box score based advanced metrics and that doesn't include the plus-minus based metrics which Curry would dominate.

Magic came into the league and had Kareem at his side from day one. Who did Curry have? Monta Ellis. Curry's franchise situation was closer to what Jordan, Bird, and LeBron found themselves in. That's partly why in the Bird vs. Magic conversations Bird's three rings can hold up to Magic's five. Bird's and Curry's MVPs I would argue are also more impressive. When they won, they dominated. Magic's last two MVPs could have been interpreted cynically as the league trying to raise Magic up to Bird's level to build up his cachet and maintain a superstar in the league with Bird falling to injury. Magic has looked to me more like a Karl Malone or David Robinson. A very good star, superstar even, but not one who could go head-to-head against a true top 10 player on equal footing and come out level. Even with less MVPs and rings and split head-to-head I get the feeling Hakeem is better because of Magic's supporting cast. Magic though had the breaks go his way.

[Reggie43]

Magic absolutely would not look BETTER with today's rules than he did in his time. His game was suited to his time. That's why he was so good then. I don't wanna hear this "he woulda developed a jumpshot if he wanted to" argument. Could say the same about Lebron or Shaq at the FT line. That's now sports works. You don't just "work on it" and start doing it automatically.

The rule changes that made steve nash and everyone in his time look better but not Magic? Would he not take advantage being defended by tweeners at the rim instead of the all time great bigs of his time? Him averaging a triple double at times in the modern era due to the lack of traditional bigs would absolutely make him look better.

Not saying he could have developed an alltime great 3pt shot just something respectable wherein players cant afford to sag off him. The years he shot more threes his best percentage was .384% Should we be surprised if he could maintain something close to that taking only open threes?

[Bronbron23]

Magic isn't better at scoring. He isn't better at shooting. He isn't better off-ball. Magic doesn't have the impact Curry does on the court.

What were the all-time great teams? The 87 Celtics? The 88 Pistons? Kareem was still around. And then there's Worthy.

Anyway the Eastern teams were killing each other while the Lakers sailed into the finals. On the other hand that 1987 path to the finals looked even easier than the ones LeBron had in the East and that's saying something!

Curry disposed of the 2016 Thunder and 2019 Rockets with Durant not around or playing for the other team.

The thunder were young and dysfunctional and i wont even entertain the rockets. Magic went up against philly, boston and detroit whicj are all great championship teams. Thunder and rockets dont even belong in 5he same convo

[BigShotBob]

Kareem was on his last legs in '87 and '88 and Magic invented showtime which made everyone better.

Let's just address the elephant in the room.

It's very possible that Curry may never GO TO, let alone WIN another Finals ever again. Period. Because when the lights were brightest his style of play failed him in dramatic fashion (game 6 and 7 in 2016). Which means that a fully healthy Cavs squad could have possibly repeated in 2015 AND 2016. All because Curry can't impose his will on a game (consistently).

[Bronbron23]

Very doubtful he will. Isn't it funny, btw, how in non-Jordan/LeBron related comparisons, used arguments are, for some reason, radically different? Where Jordan vs LeBron vs Kobe are concerned, people are all over comparing their accolades, career stats, their clutch ability and so on. Why isn't something similar happening here? And why is there so much talk about their scoring in contrast to everything else, as if scoring is a PG's main job?
So, we're comparing 5 titles vs 3, 9 Finals trips vs 5, 3 F.MVP's vs 0, 3 r.s. MVP's vs 2, career averages of 20/7/11 vs 24/5/7, not to mention Curry is already as old as Magic was when he retired. Magic being the GOAT floor general vs Curry being the GOAT 3-point shooter.
Curry is a top-3 PG ever, Magic is top-1.

yeah man these guys are crazy with this shit. Curry dosnt belong in the convo with magic. Hes more in the convo with isiah thomas, dr j, kawhi, wase, d-rob, hakeem and kd. Probably missing a bunch

[Stephonit]

The thunder were young and dysfunctional and i wont even entertain the rockets. Magic went up against philly, boston and detroit whicj are all great championship teams. Thunder and rockets dont even belong in 5he same convo

FiveThirtyEight's NBA elo ratings would disagree. Thunder around 1740. Rockets around 1720. Celtics, Pistons, and Sixers around 1690 to 1710.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/complete-history-of-the-nba/

[Bronbron23]

FiveThirtyEight's NBA elo ratings would disagree. Thunder around 1740. Rockets around 1720. Celtics, Pistons, and Sixers around 1690 to 1710.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/complete-history-of-the-nba/

dude you really gotta stop with this stat shit. Magic beat better teams. He also has more wins, accolades and better stats. Theres absolutely no argument for steph no matter how u want to look at it.

If hes so good why did he blow a 3-1 lead which is one of the biggest choke job ever btw which he was largely responsible for. You like stats so much look at curry's stats for that finals. Why did his team go out and immediately look for someone better than him after that loss?

[warriorfan]

Kareem was on his last legs in '87 and '88 and Magic invented showtime which made everyone better.

Let's just address the elephant in the room.

It's very possible that Curry may never GO TO, let alone WIN another Finals ever again. Period. Because when the lights were brightest his style of play failed him in dramatic fashion (game 6 and 7 in 2016). Which means that a fully healthy Cavs squad could have possibly repeated in 2015 AND 2016. All because Curry can't impose his will on a game (consistently).

Harrison Barnes went 3/18 on wide open shots in games 6 and 7.

Andre Iguodala scores 5 points in 30 minutes of game 6, was a -25 plus minus, he scored 4 points in game 7.

Klay Thompson scored 14 points on 17 shots in game 7

Game 7 Festus Ezeli racked up -9 Plus/minus in 10 minutes played with 0 points while trying to fill in for Andrew Bogut.

The defense was draped all over Curry all game and he managed to find guys with good to wide open looks and no one could deliver besides Draymond. Don’t hang that on Curry.

[Round Mound]

Has any rookie had a 42-15-7 finals game (without Kareem) and won the ring in his 1st year?

Magic was a fast break genious-general and he could play in the half court too. He had a set shot and would go coast to coast to finish layups with either hand. He was a clutch set shooter too.

He is the GOAT PG!

Curry is the better long range and 3-point shooter but he couldn't create an offense like Magic could.

Magic was a better passer, creator of offense, rebounder, coast to coast finisher, better in the half court since he could post up and shoot hooks with both hands.

[Stephonit]

Has any rookie had a 42-15-7 finals game (without Kareem) and won the ring in his 1st year?

Magic was a fast break genious-general and he could play in the half court too. He had a set shot and would go coast to coast to finish layups with either hand. He was a clutch set shooter too.

He is the GOAT PG!

Curry is the better long range and 3-point shooter but he couldn't create an offense like Magic could.

Magic was a better passer, creator of offense, rebounder, coast to coast finisher, better in the half court since he could post up and shoot hooks with both hands.

Magic has a higher offensive rating due to having the ball in his hands more. But Curry has a higher offensive PIPM and offensive BPM. Magic passes more. Curry has gravity.

As for shots Curry can put up here's a sample from the same game:

Left hand.

https://www.gifgen.com/gif/sCwsABQD.gif

Right hand.

https://www.gifgen.com/gif/TMdARLaG.gif

Not quite a hook but it scores the same.

Poor Superman. Curry using him to put on a clinic.

[Axe]

Curry hasn't won a chip until steve kerr came

[FKAri]

The rule changes that made steve nash and everyone in his time look better but not Magic? Yea it raised Steve Nash's effectiveness. He was an exceptional case. Did anyone in the league enjoy the same bump that Steve Nash got? No. Not even close.
Would he not take advantage being defended by tweeners at the rim instead of the all time great bigs of his time? What about the other end? How is Magic going to guard anyone in space? His slow lateral movement gets exposed way more with the new rules than it did in his era.
Him averaging a triple double at times in the modern era due to the lack of traditional bigs would absolutely make him look better.He's not getting a rebounding boost in this era. That only affects quick and athletic players that can dart to the more available long rebounds. Again, that's not Magic.


You are making a blanket statement like "well other PGs looked better so Magic would too". You're not analyzing what actually it is about those rule changes that are making these guards look so good.

I'm not saying Magic wouldn't be good. I'm saying his game wouldn't receive the same bump that some other guys have enjoyed. Guys like Nash, Westbrook, Lillard especially come to mind.

[BigShotBob]

Harrison Barnes went 3/18 on wide open shots in games 6 and 7.

Andre Iguodala scores 5 points in 30 minutes of game 6, was a -25 plus minus, he scored 4 points in game 7.

Klay Thompson scored 14 points on 17 shots in game 7

Game 7 Festus Ezeli racked up -9 Plus/minus in 10 minutes played with 0 points while trying to fill in for Andrew Bogut.

The defense was draped all over Curry all game and he managed to find guys with good to wide open looks and no one could deliver besides Draymond. Don’t hang that on Curry.

My point was that he can't offensively impose his will. Even A.I. could do that for at least a game, but Curry doesn't seem capable in half-court sets to completely takeover consistently. Or to manage the game or dominate a game.

Hobbled or not, he should have been able to do it for one game. This is the same criticism I have for Lebron in '07, '11, '14, '15, '17, and '18. So know that I'm being consistent.

[Reggie43]

Yea it raised Steve Nash's effectiveness. He was an exceptional case. Did anyone in the league enjoy the same bump that Steve Nash got? No. Not even close.
Almost everyone got a bump in their scoring and effectiveness. The year the rule changes were fully implemented guys like Lebron, Kobe, Iverson, Pierce, Arenas etc all had the best scoring season of their careers with some improving just a few points more up to almost 8 more points per game (Kobe @35.4ppg) Iverson at 30 years old suddenly averaging a career high in points (33 per game) with better percentages than when he was younger should make it obvious how much those rule changes affected the game. Mike James of all people went from average 12ppg. his best years to 20ppg at the age of 30.

[FKAri]

Almost everyone got a bump in their scoring and effectiveness. The year the rule changes were fully implemented guys like Lebron, Kobe, Iverson, Pierce, Arenas etc all had the best scoring season of their careers with some improving just a few points more up to almost 8 more points per game (Kobe @35.4ppg) Iverson at 30 years old suddenly averaging a career high in points (33 per game) with better percentages than when he was younger should make it obvious how much those rule changes affected the game. Mike James of all people went from average 12ppg. his best years to 20ppg at the age of 30.

If everyone gets better then no one gets better. My point is that Magic would not enjoy the same level of bump as a lot of these other guys because of his playstyle.

[Psileas]

A PG's main job is to make his teammates better. Is there any doubt Curry does that? Curry can match Magic on box score based advanced metrics and that doesn't include the plus-minus based metrics which Curry would dominate.

Magic came into the league and had Kareem at his side from day one. Who did Curry have? Monta Ellis. Curry's franchise situation was closer to what Jordan, Bird, and LeBron found themselves in. That's partly why in the Bird vs. Magic conversations Bird's three rings can hold up to Magic's five. Bird's and Curry's MVPs I would argue are also more impressive. When they won, they dominated. Magic's last two MVPs could have been interpreted cynically as the league trying to raise Magic up to Bird's level to build up his cachet and maintain a superstar in the league with Bird falling to injury. Magic has looked to me more like a Karl Malone or David Robinson. A very good star, superstar even, but not one who could go head-to-head against a true top 10 player on equal footing and come out level. Even with less MVPs and rings and split head-to-head I get the feeling Hakeem is better because of Magic's supporting cast. Magic though had the breaks go his way.

Yeah, Curry had Monta Ellis, so you'd expect from someone "better than Magic" to flat-out dominate among his teammates and basically instantly become a terror throughout the league, right? Oh, wait, he didn't. He didn't even come close. Actually, he wasn't even a valid All-Star candidate up to his 4th season, and you're trying to put him above someone who practically averaged a triple double and led in steals in 2 of his first 3 postseasons (I'm not even bothering with regular seasons, I'm not even bothering with his 42-point Finals 6 game at age 20, I consider most people already know this stuff), in other words, got a huge head start and almost never looked back. Please, give me a break with the league "trying" to push Magic to Bird's status, as if they were judging him correctly up to 1986, when people were still actually thinking that a 39 y.o Kareem was more valuable than an entering his prime Magic or as if Bird was doing, somehow, some incredible playoff stuff that Magic couldn't dream of matching, when he consistently underperformed for someone supposedly "clearly" better than Magic. Magic was getting 23/8/13 in '89 on the best team of the West and he was supposed to be an unworthy MVP because Jordan wanted to match his triple doubles and ended up with 10 wins less and at #7 of his own conference alone? He was at 22/7/12 on a team without Kareem that still won 63 games, when no other team got over 59, the Bulls won 55 and the Sixers 53 (Sixers' record seems impressive, but they were no better than #8 league-wise) and he supposedly didn't deserve it, because so many American fans have a blatant pro-scoring and anti-passing bias? Magic improved his teammates a hell of a lot. What the Lakers became after 1991 says it all.

[Stephonit]

Yeah, Curry had Monta Ellis, so you'd expect from someone "better than Magic" to flat-out dominate among his teammates and basically instantly become a terror throughout the league, right? Oh, wait, he didn't. He didn't even come close. Actually, he wasn't even a valid All-Star candidate up to his 4th season, and you're trying to put him above someone who practically averaged a triple double and led in steals in 2 of his first 3 postseasons (I'm not even bothering with regular seasons, I'm not even bothering with his 42-point Finals 6 game at age 20, I consider most people already know this stuff), in other words, got a huge head start and almost never looked back. Please, give me a break with the league "trying" to push Magic to Bird's status, as if they were judging him correctly up to 1986, when people were still actually thinking that a 39 y.o Kareem was more valuable than an entering his prime Magic or as if Bird was doing, somehow, some incredible playoff stuff that Magic couldn't dream of matching, when he consistently underperformed for someone supposedly "clearly" better than Magic. Magic was getting 23/8/13 in '89 on the best team of the West and he was supposed to be an unworthy MVP because Jordan wanted to match his triple doubles and ended up with 10 wins less and at #7 of his own conference alone? He was at 22/7/12 on a team without Kareem that still won 63 games, when no other team got over 59, the Bulls won 55 and the Sixers 53 (Sixers' record seems impressive, but they were no better than #8 league-wise) and he supposedly didn't deserve it, because so many American fans have a blatant pro-scoring and anti-passing bias? Magic improved his teammates a hell of a lot. What the Lakers became after 1991 says it all.

Players develop at their own pace especially those who rely more on skill than athleticism as Curry does. Curry basically missed a year due to his ankle injuries and he wasn't even given the keys to the team which were with Monta. But the fact remains that when Curry first led his franchise to a championship with a roster of conference finals first-timers in the 2014-2015 season that was his sixth season in the league. For comparison Michael Jordan brought his first championship to Chicago in his seventh season. LeBron James only won his first championship in his ninth season and that was after leaving the franchise that drafted him to join a previous winner in Dwyane Wade. I don't see how the speed with which Curry made his impact on the league is an issue.

Magic's 1987 MVP is his most convincing going by standard criteria. He led a 65-win team to a championship. That said even that year illustrates the main structural issues with his claims to being the best player in the league: most of his main competition fought in the eastern conference. His later MVPs with a much diminished or retired Kareem aren't commanding based on the voting and the team performance was undercut by his injury in the 1989 finals against the top team that year and an early exit in 1990 with the 63-win team. Though to his credit the team performances in 1988 and 1991 make up for it.

Regarding the pro-scoring bias, you are right. Jordan and Barkley benefited from that. On the other hand did someone like Isiah Thomas or Joe Dumars suffer to the tyranny of individual numbers when they led their team to a better record than Magic's in 1989?

[dankok8]

Career-wise it's Magic because Curry basically because an all-time great in 2015 and it's not been only 5 years. But in their peaks it can go either way. The Finals MVP argument is dumb because Curry was the best player in the finals in 2015 and 2018 and could have won both of those awards and nobody would have batted an eye. Who I would have on my team at their best kind of depends on the makeup of the roster. As mentioned Curry is obviously the best shooter ever and a better scorer but Magic is the better playmaker and controls the tempo better than anyone.

[Turbo Slayer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cEYGS8rc3I

[Stephonit]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cEYGS8rc3I

Do the people who make those videos put any effort into it? There's got to be better than that. Disappointing if not. Bird's passing highlight reels have more of a wow factor otherwise.

[Axe]

Career-wise it's Magic because Curry basically because an all-time great in 2015 and it's not been only 5 years. But in their peaks it can go either way. The Finals MVP argument is dumb because Curry was the best player in the finals in 2015 and 2018 and could have won both of those awards and nobody would have batted an eye. Who I would have on my team at their best kind of depends on the makeup of the roster. As mentioned Curry is obviously the best shooter ever and a better scorer but Magic is the better playmaker and controls the tempo better than anyone.
Curry couldn't even shoot well when guarded by exceptional defenders

But so is bran

[warriorfan]

My point was that he can't offensively impose his will. Even A.I. could do that for at least a game, but Curry doesn't seem capable in half-court sets to completely takeover consistently. Or to manage the game or dominate a game.

Hobbled or not, he should have been able to do it for one game. This is the same criticism I have for Lebron in '07, '11, '14, '15, '17, and '18. So know that I'm being consistent.

All circumstances given, Curry did his job and his teammates fell flat. They were put in a position to win and didn’t deliver. Curry starts to get trapped 30 feet out, manages to get the ball out of it safely and the ball finds a wide open Barnes or Iguodala who proceeds to brick everything. The thing is Curry makes it look so easy people here don’t even give him credit for operating through those sets. When Lillard sees the same defense he gets suffocated and stopped. He isn’t able to avoid the traps like Curry does. It’s like if a premier wide out gets double covered the entire game in addition to having their best corner on them and he goes for 75 yards and no touchdown but all his other receivers drop everything. Do you hang that on the WR1? No, the gameplan that was used against the team dictated that others had to step up in their opportunities that were given.

[mr4speed]

Yeah, Curry had Monta Ellis, so you'd expect from someone "better than Magic" to flat-out dominate among his teammates and basically instantly become a terror throughout the league, right? Oh, wait, he didn't. He didn't even come close. Actually, he wasn't even a valid All-Star candidate up to his 4th season, and you're trying to put him above someone who practically averaged a triple double and led in steals in 2 of his first 3 postseasons (I'm not even bothering with regular seasons, I'm not even bothering with his 42-point Finals 6 game at age 20, I consider most people already know this stuff), in other words, got a huge head start and almost never looked back. Please, give me a break with the league "trying" to push Magic to Bird's status, as if they were judging him correctly up to 1986, when people were still actually thinking that a 39 y.o Kareem was more valuable than an entering his prime Magic or as if Bird was doing, somehow, some incredible playoff stuff that Magic couldn't dream of matching, when he consistently underperformed for someone supposedly "clearly" better than Magic. Magic was getting 23/8/13 in '89 on the best team of the West and he was supposed to be an unworthy MVP because Jordan wanted to match his triple doubles and ended up with 10 wins less and at #7 of his own conference alone? He was at 22/7/12 on a team without Kareem that still won 63 games, when no other team got over 59, the Bulls won 55 and the Sixers 53 (Sixers' record seems impressive, but they were no better than #8 league-wise) and he supposedly didn't deserve it, because so many American fans have a blatant pro-scoring and anti-passing bias? Magic improved his teammates a hell of a lot. What the Lakers became after 1991 says it all.
The Lakers 91 season with Magic was 58 wins and 24 losses. The Lakers 92 season without Magic was 43 wins and 39 losses. Sedale Threat is certainly not going to fill Magic's shoes, but there was more going on than LA just missing Magic. Vlade Divac played in 82 games in 91 and only played in 36 games in 92, missing 46 more games. Worthy played in 78 games in 91 and only played in 54 games in 92, missing 24 more games. And Worthy's injury in game 54 was season ending and when he did return the following season he never was as explosive or had the same vertical lift. I'm not saying Magic did not make his teammates better, but that 92 season was problematic for numerous reasons and it is misleading to think Magic was the only factor. It is too bad Magic had to retire as I believe he had 4 or maybe 5 years left and it would have been great for the fans and the NBA to see what he would have done.

[Psileas]

Players develop at their own pace especially those who rely more on skill than athleticism as Curry does. Curry basically missed a year due to his ankle injuries and he wasn't even given the keys to the team which were with Monta. But the fact remains that when Curry first led his franchise to a championship with a roster of conference finals first-timers in the 2014-2015 season that was his sixth season in the league. For comparison Michael Jordan brought his first championship to Chicago in his seventh season. LeBron James only won his first championship in his ninth season and that was after leaving the franchise that drafted him to join a previous winner in Dwyane Wade. I don't see how the speed with which Curry made his impact on the league is an issue.

Magic's 1987 MVP is his most convincing going by standard criteria. He led a 65-win team to a championship. That said even that year illustrates the main structural issues with his claims to being the best player in the league: most of his main competition fought in the eastern conference. His later MVPs with a much diminished or retired Kareem aren't commanding based on the voting and the team performance was undercut by his injury in the 1989 finals against the top team that year and an early exit in 1990 with the 63-win team. Though to his credit the team performances in 1988 and 1991 make up for it.

Regarding the pro-scoring bias, you are right. Jordan and Barkley benefited from that. On the other hand did someone like Isiah Thomas or Joe Dumars suffer to the tyranny of individual numbers when they led their team to a better record than Magic's in 1989?

The speed Curry became impactful is an issue because, career wise, he isn't going to catch up easily as long as he had a slow start and Magic only stopped due to HIV reasons. LeBron, Jordan and other "late" champions made their impact early on, so they can't enter the same category. Not saying 2015-19 Curry isn't an all-time great.
Thomas and Dumars were underrated, but I can see why individual numbers play a role when it comes to MVP voting. I just don't see why they have to involve 25+ ppg scoring. They were underrated for multiple reasons and one of them is people should have known they were better than what their numbers indicated.

[Stephonit]

The speed Curry became impactful is an issue because, career wise, he isn't going to catch up easily as long as he had a slow start and Magic only stopped due to HIV reasons. LeBron, Jordan and other "late" champions made their impact early on, so they can't enter the same category.

I am unsure what you mean by Jordan and LeBron making "their impact early on". I take that to mean racking up point totals and all-star seasons, longevity arguments basically, but not actually making an impact in terms of historic seasons or changing the game unless it is from a marketing perspective. When it comes to making such an impact on basketball that it changed how the game is played at the highest levels, Curry can match any of them late start or not.