How do you feel about Shaq defending the paint like this?

[Kblaze8855]

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Does it feel wrong?















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Are your modern sensibilities offended?









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Do you need a safe space? We have them available but I warn you....the line gets long these days with schools being closed.



Just give me your general feeling towards what’s happening there.

[tpols]

flagrant fouls.

[Bronbron23]

Its all good its not even that malicious what hes doing hes just a big strong dude. If your not strong enough to jump in against him and over power him then maybe you shouldn't be going in there.

[Kblaze8855]

flagrant fouls.

One of them wasn’t even foul at all.

[Akeem34TheDream]

Imagine Curry attacking that rim. He might actually die. I'd have liked to see Zion trying though. That'd be fun.

[tpols]

One of them wasn’t even foul at all.

im guessing the 2nd one but he still bodied the hell out of him.

[light]

That's happened in every era and it still happens. Some of those may end up flagrant but that doesn't prevent people from doing it.

[LAmbruh]

goat shit, there's a reason why Shaq was the Spurs killer

[Kblaze8855]

That's happened in every era and it still happens. Some of those may end up flagrant but that doesn't prevent people from doing it.

He was certainly still doing it on the Suns:



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But as the ancients said “Punks jump up to get beat down.“.

[SouBeachTalents]

Blaze you have the one on Funderburke in the infamous Game 6? I remember Adelman wanted a flagrant there

[Kblaze8855]

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[RRR3]

Blaze, how often would you say teams would just stop driving against Shaq teams?

[Kblaze8855]

Not so much stop driving as rely on driving to kick out. If possible to Shaqs man. There’s a reason he didn’t get straight up bodied on a dunk more than once. Coleman got him then nobody else in a real man to man bang on you situation. People didn’t really test him.

[Bronbron23]

That's happened in every era and it still happens. Some of those may end up flagrant but that doesn't prevent people from doing it.

Yeah ok. It absolutely makes people think twice about coming in.

[imdaman99]

I used to drive into the paint often, than my best friend fouled me hard because I kept driving around him to send a message. Fractured my leg, I obviously didn't know it was so I kept playing but it hurt enough that I was hopping around on 1 leg. I shrugged it off and hit the game winner a few plays later. <<< that's my Al Bundy 4 touchdowns story :lol

Anyways, I stopped driving into the paint. Became a strict 3 point shooter, or just outside where I wasn't vulnerable. He wasn't my best friend at the time but over the years I still remind him he was a dick about it and he admits he was getting frustrated staying in front of me.

Shaq used to send plenty of messages like that, including to his own teammates about how he's not gonna play D if he doesn't get the ball. Pretty sure it was to Kobe. These are hard fouls and these NBA players are physical specimen so they didn't get hurt but it doesn't mean Shaq was in the right for this. He should have been thrown out for all these fouls but I'm sure in those eras it was either a flragrant or just a 'hard-nosed' foul.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

He's just standing there and they are running into a brick shithouse, it's not his fault.

[FKAri]

Fouls whether hard or soft shouldn't really be considered part of normal basketball. It's shit for the viewer. A foul should be a mistake not a quota you have to fill. The problem is the game is difficult to officiate so it's this tightrope players have to walk where fouls are inevitable even when not intentional. An intentional foul should not be a part of the game. If you're beat then as a neutral fan I don't want to see an intentional foul, be it jersey pulling or clothes-lining.

[r0drig0lac]

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[Whoah10115]

Here and there. I'm a Knicks fan so can't pretend I'm not familiar with physical play.

He did have moments where the shot was deep, because he knew how mountainous he was (is).

But definitely a bully. When I don't take him ahead of Kobe or LeBron it's because I'm aware of how much bullshit he got away with on offense...way more offended by that than any of this.

LoL at Tim Hardaway's face.

[Bronbron23]

Fouls whether hard or soft shouldn't really be considered part of normal basketball. It's shit for the viewer. A foul should be a mistake not a quota you have to fill. The problem is the game is difficult to officiate so it's this tightrope players have to walk where fouls are inevitable even when not intentional. An intentional foul should not be a part of the game. If you're beat then as a neutral fan I don't want to see an intentional foul, be it jersey pulling or clothes-lining.

Man there's plenty of situations where you should definitely foul on purpose. F*ck the viewers they gonna watch regardless its about winning.

[FKAri]

Man there's plenty of situations where you should definitely foul on purpose. F*ck the viewers they gonna watch regardless its about winning.
If a player's beat and the "basketball play" is to shove the dude then that's laughable. It's as stupid as this new trend that's taken over the NBA in recent years of players stopping fast breaks with a jersey hold. It's stupid. It isn't basketball. You got beat. Now take it like a man. That's sports.

I don't even mind hot-dogging. There was that controversy about Trae Young nutmegging someone and getting shoved. I'm on Trae's side on that one. If you want to embarrass someone within the confines of the game. That's fine. Retaliate within the confines of the game. Not by doing something illegal.

[iamgine]

I see it as fair. Shaq gets beat up a lot on offense. So he gets to beat up guys on defense.

[GimmeThat]

that black girls are available because he's wrecking them trannies

[ralph_i_el]

Imagine Curry attacking that rim. He might actually die. I'd have liked to see Zion trying though. That'd be fun.

That's why they invented the floater. Catch Shaq flatfooted and you won't get touched.

I just watched a 2013 Warriors-Spurs playoff game, and Curry had a stretch where he just isoed Kawhi twice in a row and finished at the rim twice without being touched, off pure savvy.


You get limited fouls for a reason. Put Shaq in enough situations like that, and he's out of the game. He'd catch some flagrents also.

[tpols]

I see it as fair. Shaq gets beat up a lot on offense. So he gets to beat up guys on defense.

Shaqs whole game on offense was to beat guys up and dunk it.

[Akeem34TheDream]

That's why they invented the floater. Catch Shaq flatfooted and you won't get touched.

I just watched a 2013 Warriors-Spurs playoff game, and Curry had a stretch where he just isoed Kawhi twice in a row and finished at the rim twice without being touched, off pure savvy.


You get limited fouls for a reason. Put Shaq in enough situations like that, and he's out of the game. He'd catch some flagrents also.

My comment was obviously not about his skills but his lack of toughness. :facepalm

[Bronbron23]

If a player's beat and the "basketball play" is to shove the dude then that's laughable. It's as stupid as this new trend that's taken over the NBA in recent years of players stopping fast breaks with a jersey hold. It's stupid. It isn't basketball. You got beat. Now take it like a man. That's sports.

I don't even mind hot-dogging. There was that controversy about Trae Young nutmegging someone and getting shoved. I'm on Trae's side on that one. If you want to embarrass someone within the confines of the game. That's fine. Retaliate within the confines of the game. Not by doing something illegal.

well yeah some fouls are definitely uncalled for like as you say if your already beat. Things like taking someone's legs out or obviously flagrant fouls like elbows to the head and stuff.

Theres nothing wrong with a good hard foul though. The thing with shaq though is hes flicking huge and very strong. Hes within his rights to give a clean hard foul like anyone else. Its not his fault other guys are smaller and weaker. If you dont want to to get touched up qnd you can't take it dont bring your bish ass in there.

[BigShotBob]

He's doing the right thing

[Kblaze8855]

Jordan has thoughts on this in a new interview:


“When I came back from baseball, I don’t know if I’ve ever told anyone this, I’m playing against Shaq,” Jordan told MacMullan, via New York Post (https://nypost.com/2022/03/29/the-moment-michael-jordan-was-no-longer-intimidated-by-shaq/). “Shaq’s the biggest player I’ve ever seen, in terms of physicality. He was this big, massive guy when I came back from baseball, so I was somewhat intimidated.

“I didn’t really know how to play against him. Do I go right at him? Do I stop and pull up? Blah blah blah. So I went right at him and he just knocked me straight to the floor, and then he reached down to pick me up.”


It was in that moment that Jordan realized O’Neal was “a nice guy.” As a result, he was no longer worried about going right after the All-Star center.


“I said, ‘Naw, he didn’t mean it, he’s a nice guy.’ If he’d’ve left me, stepped over me, a la the old school, I would’ve been somewhat intimidated,” Jordan added. “But his heart is too good. He’s not that type of guy. It took away some of the intimidation factor.”







Physical but nice apparently.

[Gudo]

"Don't fake the funk on a nasty dunk!"

[tpols]

I see it as fair. Shaq gets beat up a lot on offense. So he gets to beat up guys on defense.

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:biggums:

Are you serious?

[90sgoat]

What I liked about those first clips was that these guys were going at Shaq to dunk on him.

Players today never even attempt it if there's a big guy under the basket, rather pass to the corner 3 or dribble out.

[Kblaze8855]

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:biggums:

Are you serious?


Shaq absolutely got hit a lot more than he hit other people. Players are on the record saying they hit him as hard as they could in the arms as he was going up trying to prevent the and one and sometimes it wouldn’t even be called a foul. Being bigger and stronger than the opponent doesn’t mean being hit doesn’t hurt. Date a woman who likes to play fight who you have to hold back against and you’ll learn that lesson fast.

If he dished it out at the same rate he took it they would have been taking guys out on stretchers. The league is lucky MJ was right. He wasn’t actually mean.

[tpols]

Shaq absolutely got hit a lot more than he hit other people. Players are on the record saying they hit him as hard as they could in the arms as he was going up trying to prevent the and one and sometimes it wouldn’t even be called a foul. Being bigger and stronger than the opponent doesn’t mean being hit doesn’t hurt. Date a woman who likes to play fight who you have to hold back against and you’ll learn that lesson fast.

If he dished it out at the same rate he took it they would have been taking guys out on stretchers. The league is lucky MJ was right. He wasn’t actually mean.

Shaqs whole offensive game was to slam dudes out of the way and either dunk it or throw up a baby hook. Literally his entire offensive game was built around knocking dudes off their spot and taking it himself. Just because guys tried to strip foul him hard doesn't mean he wasn't initially the one to inflict violence. I can't believe people even deny that Shaq using his size and athleticism to pummel opponents wasn't a thing, and even go as far to try and make him the victim. lmao

[Kblaze8855]

You think a guy like Shaq sets out to hurt people and…they don’t get hurt? Really?

If Shaq we’re out to “inflict violence” people would have been destroyed not moved out of the way.

People have always said everyone was lucky Shaq was good natured. “If he wanted to hurt you…” was a common comment from his opponents even when they got laid out because they knew he was always holding back and taking the abuse without responding.

I think it was Kerr saying he hit him as hard as he could across the arms and just bounced off. You think Shaq hit many people as hard as he could?

Do you think it doesn’t hurt when someone half your size hits you hard? Serious question….have you ever had a woman hit you?

Hell an 8 year old hitting you in the body hurts. Nba forwards definitely do. And he’d take it for the most part. Nobody ever questioned that he was being beat up and letting guys get away with it.

[FultzNationRISE]

Jordan has thoughts on this in a new interview:


Physical but nice apparently.


I dont think it’s even about nice, probably more about perception. A dude like Shaq who is a literal giant - the kind of outlier who probably inspired the ancient stories about Goliath and such - could really, really hurt someone. After he sends a message he’s gotta kind of check on the person because if theyre hurt and he doesnt show concern, he’ll take a lot more shit publicly for not being “careful” than a regular sized person.

Probably also why he missed on purpose when he swung at people (barkley, brad miller). Guy cant just throw a punch like anyone else and take the game or two suspension. A direct punch from him will turn a dude to a vegetable.

Hes gotta be more mindful about this stuff than others

[Kblaze8855]

I think he just missed with Miller. He wanted to hit him. He told Stern once that next time someone hits him and thinks he won’t hit back he’s gonna swing and just take the 20 games. It was when Phil was complaining about all the fouls that go uncalled on him and Stern said if they called every foul on Shaq games would be 4 hours. It was pretty well know that Shaq was fouled a lot more than got called. Wilt too. His famous quote was about exactly what you mentioned. “Nobody roots for Goliath”.

All those types get punished but you see two clips of someone being knocked over people act like they were monsters beating up on innocents. You had to foul them hard or they just go through the contact.

Shaqs coach at LSU got suspended for trying to fight a guy who tried to pull Shaq down to prevent and and 1. Coach just ran out to fight because he was sick of it. Shaq did kinda lash out at the guy that time if I remember correctly but coach was madder than he was.

[tpols]

Shaq using even 70% of his power delivers more force than the typical NBA players 100%. That's why the dudes that got moved were shaq opponents and the guy doing the moving was Shaq.

A lot of normal people would have been knocked out by that incidental mutumbo elbow. Or at least had a broken nose. And he didn't even get called for an offensive foul. Id imagine shaqs opponents were more sore the next day after jostling with him than shaq himself was.

[FultzNationRISE]

I think he just missed with Miller. He wanted to hit him. He told Stern once that next time someone hits him and thinks he won’t hit back he’s gonna swing and just take the 20 games. It was when Phil was complaining about all the fouls that go uncalled on him and Stern said if they called every foul on Shaq games would be 4 hours. It was pretty well know that Shaq was fouled a lot more than got called. Wilt too. His famous quote was about exactly what you mentioned. “Nobody roots for Goliath”.

All those types get punished but you see two clips of someone being knocked over people act like they were monsters beating up on innocents. You had to foul them hard or they just go through the contact.

Shaqs coach at LSU got suspended for trying to fight a guy who tried to pull Shaq down to prevent and and 1. Coach just ran out to fight because he was sick of it. Shaq did kinda lash out at the guy that time if I remember correctly but coach was madder than he was.


Thats what Im sayin, I dont think Shaq checking on dudes after leveling them was about being nice. It was about preventing people from thinking he was out to kill someone.

[90sgoat]

Probably also why he missed on purpose when he swung at people (barkley, brad miller). Guy cant just throw a punch like anyone else and take the game or two suspension. A direct punch from him will turn a dude to a vegetable.


Good point.

I remember the Barkley altercation and Shaq talked about it later on as a "barbershop moment", meaning he had to get back at Barkley or be a bitch forever basically, but he wasn't going at it with rage really.

[90sgoat]

Shaq using even 70% of his power delivers more force than the typical NBA players 100%. That's why the dudes that got moved were shaq opponents and the guy doing the moving was Shaq.

A lot of normal people would have been knocked out by that incidental mutumbo elbow. Or at least had a broken nose. And he didn't even get called for an offensive foul. Id imagine shaqs opponents were more sore the next day after jostling with him than shaq himself was.

Shaq definitely went over the line against Mutombo in that series.

[FultzNationRISE]

Shaqs whole offensive game was to slam dudes out of the way and either dunk it or throw up a baby hook. Literally his entire offensive game was built around knocking dudes off their spot and taking it himself. Just because guys tried to strip foul him hard doesn't mean he wasn't initially the one to inflict violence. I can't believe people even deny that Shaq using his size and athleticism to pummel opponents wasn't a thing, and even go as far to try and make him the victim. lmao

This is absurd.


https://youtu.be/lag2rdeNx_w

These are highlights from ONE GAME where he shows a nimble jump step, a fastbreak dribble-drive (and rimming out the dunk hah), a smooth midrange shot off the spin, and of course his signature low post ragdolling.

Again, thats all just in 1 game.

I dont know why you insist on perpetuating this narrative that Shaq could only bruise and nothing else. Like... theres abundant video that youre wrong about it. Yet you keep insisting on it. It makes no sense.

[Kblaze8855]

Shaq using even 70% of his power delivers more force than the typical NBA players 100%. That's why the dudes that got moved were shaq opponents and the guy doing the moving was Shaq.

A lot of normal people would have been knocked out by that incidental mutumbo elbow. Or at least had a broken nose. And he didn't even get called for an offensive foul. Id imagine shaqs opponents were more sore the next day after jostling with him than shaq himself was.


And Shaq had half his season ruined once when a hit you could barely see him take caused a deep bone bruise that had him out for a month and limited after with damaged blood vessels from a guy 75 pounds smaller than him.

People act like being taller and generally bigger makes you a superhero. He’s made of blood and bone and shit hurt when he was hit. And he took more than he got.

Like I said go play fight an aggressive girlfriend and see. A skinny girl with that sharp ass hip bone on the side will have you feeling crippled when she falls on you at half your size. You’re still bone, nerves, and muscle that gets hurt when hit. Them being smaller doesn’t help much. Even less when “smaller” is still a 260 pound man hitting you.

Shaq hurt like anyone else when you hit him. He might go through it and still finish but his body still registered the pain. He was tall not a zombie.

[tpols]

:roll:

yea shaqs main shots and moves were smooth midrange Js off the spin and fastbreak dribbling. If I show you a youtube clip of Dirk dunking the ball a couple times in a game that doesnt mean his game was built around slashing and finishing at the rim. To deny that shaq was a low post bully ball player as the crux of his game is what's absurd. Doesnt mean he didn't have quick feet and some nice moves. But he set it all up with his size and power.

[Kblaze8855]

:roll:

yea shaqs main shots and moves were smooth midrange Js off the spin and fastbreak dribbling. If I show you a youtube clip of Dirk dunking the ball a couple times in a game that doesnt mean is game was built around slashing and finishing at the rim. To deny that Shaw low a low post bully ball player as the crux of his game is what's absurd. Does,t mean he didn't have quick feet and some nice moves. But he set it all up with his size and power.



Shaqs main shots were jump hooks and fadeaways. There was a time in the mid 90s he probably started shooting too many baseline fadeaways. You just wouldn’t know it off highlights.

[tpols]

Shaq physically was pretty close to a super hero. I know for damn sure Mutumbo was hurting more than Shaq after those Finals games. Probably hurt to chew food the next day after that elbow.

[tpols]

Shaqs main shots were jump hooks and fadeaways. There was a time in the mid 90s he probably started shooting too many baseline fadeaways. You just wouldn’t know it off highlights.

In the past week I've had people tell me that Durant is an unathletic player and Shaq wasn't a low post guy who used to rag doll entire frontcourts by himself. I honestly wouldnt be shocked if somebody says Steph Curry doesn't like 3 pt shots and then gave me a highlight tape of all his floaters and reverse layups to prove it. I've been slacking at the end of the quarter gotta do some work. This shit is silly.

[Kblaze8855]

I didn’t say Shaq wasn’t a low post guy. I said Shaqs main shots were hooks and fadeaways because they were. What you think about that doesn’t much matter. Guy took a lot more hooks and fadeaways than he ever knocked someone out of the way to dunk. The dunk is just what gets replayed.

[tpols]

I mentioned the baby hooks in my post man. He still knocked dudes over to get those plenty. Just to get in position to take them. Id imagine his midrange %age in his prime is very low.

[tontoz]

I didn’t say Shaq wasn’t a low post guy. I said Shaqs main shots were hooks and fadeaways because they were. What you think about that doesn’t much matter. Guy took a lot more hooks and fadeaways than he ever knocked someone out of the way to dunk. The dunk is just what gets replayed.


He was pretty good at those too. Probably doesn't get enough credit for his touch on those shots.

[Kblaze8855]

I wouldn’t call it midrange. He’d just fade towards the baseline on the turnaround. Mostly late Orlando and early lakers. He had a run where he just loved that baseline spin fade going out of bounds. I remember a game very the Bulls he was taking like 16 footers and the announcers were saying he was working on it a lot. Maybe a wilt like “Just to prove I can” thing.

[Kblaze8855]

Reading some of the articles from after they change the hand checking rules about defending shaq are hilarious. Essentially everyone agreed you have to get him with both hands on the catch or he will just hit you with the black tornado spin move instantly and get open but putting both hands on him was supposed to be a foul after 1999. David Robinson admitted using two hands on the catch but complained that Shaq would move you after he got it. Both of them are fouls but shouldn’t that be on the d if they did it first?

Mutombo was the same way in the finals. Technically it’s a foul to guard him with the knee in back and 2 hands. But he did it on the catch. Both of them near fouled out(Shaq actually did). If you foul him on half his catches can you complain when he fouls you to score? It’s tough to say who is right. Refs had whole offseason meetings about it.

Oakley was actually on Shaqs side. He said that the complainers need to check their heart because they all beat up Shaq and got away with it.

You really couldn’t call it all and not have both sides foul out. But the guy guarding Shaq would foul out first.

[FultzNationRISE]

In the past week I've had people tell me that Durant is an unathletic player and Shaq wasn't a low post guy who used to rag doll entire frontcourts by himself. I honestly wouldnt be shocked if somebody says Steph Curry doesn't like 3 pt shots and then gave me a highlight tape of all his floaters and reverse layups to prove it. I've been slacking at the end of the quarter gotta do some work. This shit is silly.

You said it was literally his entire game.

And that's simply not true.

Yes it's well known it was the most defining aspect of his game.

But you always push this idea that he wasnt capable of scoring without throwing someone aside and dunking it.

That is factually incorrect, and there is far more evidence than a couple flukey shots like you might see on Kendrick Perkins entire career highlights. Shaqs versatility was on display to one degree or another in virtually every game he played (of his prime). He was a legitimately skilled player. For his size, his skill set is actually REMARKABLE.