Michael Jordan would be shooting fade away 3 pointers in today's nba

[Lebron23]

Lebron actually hit a fadeaway 3 pointers against the Wizards, Celtics, and Warriors a couple of years ago. If Jordan was born in 1993 instead of 1963 I can envision Jordan practicing this move, and adding to his offensive arsenal. Shooters today have more range because they practice these type of shots.

[Dr Hawk]

He is the greatest player of all-time and the greatest mid-range shooter of all time. Had he born under a 3 point shooting culture, he would have become a great 3 point shooter.

[ralph_i_el]

Love shot a few of those back in Minny in late-clock situations. I don't see why it's a worse shot than someone pulling up from 35 ft.

[Roundball_Rock]

The problem is only with MJ do we automatically assign credit to for things he never did (in his case in 15 seasons in the NBA).

[ImKobe]

Shooters today have more range because they practice these type of shots.

No shit, which is why we can't just say that Jordan's weakness would have been 3PT shooting in this era. He would have been a good 3PT shooter if he practiced more. He made FTs and mid-range jump shots at an elite rate, I think 3s wouldn't have been much of an issue.

I could see MJ shooting step-back 3s, he had insane quickness. Imagine him running high P&R all game.


The problem is only with MJ do we automatically assign credit to for things he never did (in his case in 15 seasons in the NBA).


False. It's like people arguing that today's athletes would destroy any past era, or all the mythical shit we've seen written about Wilt for decades after his NBA career. It's not like Jordan never had a good season/title run shooting the 3 at some volume, but you're the only one here acting as if that never happened.

[ralph_i_el]

He is the greatest player of all-time and the greatest mid-range shooter of all time. Had he born under a 3 point shooting culture, he would have become a great 3 point shooter.

Dirk has a season or two where he shot better %'s than MJ's best seasons from midrange, and shot about as high a proportion of shots from 10ft-3pt line.

[light]

Lebron actually hit a fadeaway 3 pointers against the Wizards, Celtics, and Warriors a couple of years ago. If Jordan was born in 1993 instead of 1963 I can envision Jordan practicing this move, and adding to his offensive arsenal. Shooters today have more range because they practice these type of shots.

Or he'd still prefer not to shoot threes and he'd be Ben Simmons.

[Roundball_Rock]

Or he'd still prefer not to shoot threes and he'd be Ben Simmons.

Wade is another one who rarely took threes, outside of a couple of seasons in the middle of his prime.

[ImKobe]

Dirk has a season or two where he shot better %'s than MJ's best seasons from midrange, and shot about as high a proportion of shots from 10ft-3pt line.


We don't have all the data on MJ's mid-range shooting, IIRC, we only got stats from his mid-30s, so peak Jordan likely was as efficient as anyone at a slightly lesser volume. He took mid-range shots at a ridiculous volume in 97-98. Dirk wasn't a 30 ppg high-volume scorer type for most of his career.

[ImKobe]

Wade is another one who rarely took threes, outside of a couple of seasons in the middle of his prime.

Comparing Jordan to Wade or Ben Simmons... MJ took mid-range shots/long 2s at a ridiculous volume when on his last legs and was efficient at them as the best shooters we've ever seen.

[light]

He is the greatest player of all-time and the greatest mid-range shooter of all time. Had he born under a 3 point shooting culture, he would have become a great 3 point shooter.

He was still playing within a 3 point shooting culture. He entered the three point shooting contest, for crying out loud. That's how big that event was at the time.

He knew there was significance at the three point line.

But Jordan put up the worst score (5) in three point shooting contest history and that was that.

Look, some guys don't really like to shoot - even today in the 3pt shooting culture. Jordan was also afraid of the water, so he had phobias. He preferred not to shoot threes and he may have kept that preference regardless of the era.

[Roundball_Rock]

Comparing Jordan to Wade or Ben Simmons... MJ took mid-range shots/long 2s at a ridiculous volume when on his last legs and was efficient at them as the best shooters we've ever seen.

How many three's did he take?

Again, we can't keep going around have double standards. If we are going to credit MJ for fictional threes we have to do the same for Magic, Wilt, Kareem, etc. The most interesting is Bird, who actually was a great three point shooter. Bird was scoring 30 PPG without threes. Maybe Bird would be the GOAT in today's game, right?

[ImKobe]

How many three's did he take?

Again, we can't keep going around have double standards. If we are going to credit MJ for fictional threes we have to do the same for Magic, Wilt, Kareem, etc. The most interesting is Bird, who actually was a great three point shooter. Bird was scoring 30 PPG without threes. Maybe Bird would be the GOAT in today's game, right?

He only had two seasons of shooting the 3 at a volume behind the normal line, and he shot them at 35.2 & 37.6% (1990, 1993), he shot over 38% from three at a decent volume every post-season of the 91-93 three-peat. Wade never did these things. Ben Simmons doesn't even have a 15-footer. Bird and Magic weren't the volume scorers that Jordan was, but their stats would be better in today's era yes. Bird would heavily benefit from this 3PT-heavy era, as would MJ & Magic.

[Roundball_Rock]

Jordan took 0.9 and 0.7 threes per game his final two seasons, shooting 24.1%. He was old but still a high volume player. 23 PPG on 22 FGA per game in 02', 20 PPG on 19 FGA per game in 03'.

Bird was a 30 PPG scorer at his peak. That isn't volume scoring?

[ImKobe]

Jordan took 0.9 and 0.7 threes per game his final two seasons, shooting 24.1%. He was old but still a high volume player. 23 PPG on 22 FGA per game in 02', 20 PPG on 19 FGA per game in 03'.

Bird was a 30 PPG scorer at his peak. That isn't volume scoring?

The argument here is that Jordan could have developed into a decent volume 3PT shooter in an era that favors spacing and creating wide open looks from that distance. We have a couple examples of him shooting the 3 at 2+ a game and doing well at it, as we do with Larry. Both would be shooting more 3s in this era and doing a decent job at it.

[Roundball_Rock]

All speculation. He played for 15 seasons and never developed a three point shot, shooting as badly at the end as he did in the 80's.

[ImKobe]

All speculation. He played for 15 seasons and never developed a three point shot, shooting as badly at the end as he did in the 80's.

So we're overlooking the seasons/Playoff runs he took 3s at a volume and shot well, because he came back at age 38-40 and didn't shoot them? You do realize 0.7-0.9 attempts means he never shot them in rhythm and probably only took them from half-court or in bailout situations with no time on the clock?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Who knows.

What we DO KNOW is Mike had seasons shooting over 35% from three. With the normal line. And playoff runs shooting 39% from three. Again, with the regularized line.

Jordan would adjust fine. And still be the best player today.

[Roundball_Rock]

He played 15 seasons and shot 28.8% from the NBA 3 point line. Get over it.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

He played 15 seasons and shot 28.8% from the NBA 3 point line. Get over it.

In your post above, you claimed Jordan "never developed" a three point shot.

You were deadass wrong. Admit it.

[ImKobe]

85-93 Playoffs: 35.2% 3PT 2.2 3PA with 30.2% from 3 in his final Playoff run after not shooting standard NBA 3s for almost 5 years. He had clearly developed a 3PT shot going into the 90s, then didn't shoot them for almost 5 years since the league changed the distance. Apparently his 98, 02 & 03 seasons are more meaningful than his prime seasons, he never learned how to shoot the 3! Overlook the prime years where he shot it well and with volume!

[Roundball_Rock]

244 attempts over 9 playoff runs. :lol He also took 955 regular season attempts during those same 9 seasons (this is MJ so entire chunks of his career are erased). What happened?

[RogueBorg]

He played 15 seasons and shot 28.8% from the NBA 3 point line. Get over it.

https://media.giphy.com/media/dg7EVuAv0emkw/giphy.gif

[Bronbron23]

Lebron actually hit a fadeaway 3 pointers against the Wizards, Celtics, and Warriors a couple of years ago. If Jordan was born in 1993 instead of 1963 I can envision Jordan practicing this move, and adding to his offensive arsenal. Shooters today have more range because they practice these type of shots.

he may shoot the odd one but i dought he would shoot alot of fadeaway threes. It dosnt even make sense on why he would need to. Most threes are taken with the defender a few feet away so why would you need to fade?

[tpols]

3's already existed in MJ's era... Barkley took a bunch of them.

he's on record saying he didnt take the 3 pt shot a lot on purpose because it's lazy, and a less methodical sure way of scoring.

he likely would just dominate midrange like he used to and have free runs to the rim all day on todays pathetic class of shot blocks and paint enforcers.

[2ball]

The thing is even without taking many 3’s he was the GOAT volume shooter. All he needed to do was up the volume and his percentages would follow suit and rise.

[light]

he's on record saying he didnt take the 3 pt shot a lot on purpose because it's lazy, and a less methodical sure way of scoring.

That's Jordan-speak for, "because I suck at it."

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

244 attempts over 9 playoff runs. :lol He also took 955 regular season attempts during those same 9 seasons (this is MJ so entire chunks of his career are erased). What happened?

But, you said Jordan never developed a three point shot :confusedshrug:

Meanwhile, he has seasons shooting 35+%. And playoff runs shooting 39%. All with the normalized line.

Oops :lol

[hateraid]

Or he'd still prefer not to shoot threes and he'd be Ben Simmons.

That is a more likely scenario

[Bronbron23]

That's Jordan-speak for, "because I suck at it."

well if he sucks at it than so does bron. Their nearly identical in three point efficiency even though mj barely worked on them

[Roundball_Rock]

well if he sucks at it than so does bron. Their nearly identical in three point efficiency even though mj barely worked on them

There is a big difference between the two in volume. Look at their 3 point attempts:

Jordan: 1,189 attempts from the NBA line* (1985-1993, 1998, 2002-2003)
LeBron: 5,409 attempts (2004-2020)

LeBron has taken 1,456 in the last four seasons alone, which included a 55 game injury season and a 60 game suspended season this year. His 82 game pace for this year was 521 attempts.

It is okay for MJ to not be #1 at every single aspect of basketball. No one is.

*Jordan took 589 threes from the WNBA line from 1995-1997, including 557 during the 96' and 97' seasons. It appears when he was able to make them (MJ shot 40.4% from the WNBA line) he certainly was willing to take them.

[3ball]

Many people don't realize that MJ's fadeaway was a physically-overpowering shot - the elevation .. the hangtime... and often muscling the defender on the way up, almost forcing the shot in - all done with goat form - no one had better form than Jordan.. these things - the elevation/muscling/form - they combined to allow MJ to make contested mid-range, which allowed high volume

All these things would occur from three - we can see it here - MJ forcing (https://i.makeagif.com/media/11-26-2015/olpEnW.gif) the shot in with goat elevation and form - he would make this his STANDARD

He was the only guy doing this (https://i.makeagif.com/media/10-01-2015/kV0RAl.gif) from 2-point range and he'd be the only guy doing it from 3-point range - mj's elevation, hangtime, muscling ability and form would allow similar contested shot-making from 3 that he did from 2

Btw, MJ was already making contested fadeaway game-winners from the shortened line, seen here (https://i.makeagif.com/media/3-18-2019/RLVoab.gif) and here (https://i.makeagif.com/media/9-18-2019/NKp--8.gif[/IMG)...so he was already making contested fadeaway threes from the shortened line - it's only a matter of time/practice for him to do it from the regular line (he already had fadeaway threes from the regular line - they're seen in this 12 minute video of exclusively bailout threes, seen here (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AJzbrBUFB4Y&t=02m14s), aka end-of-clock threes)

[Bronbron23]

All speculation. He played for 15 seasons and never developed a three point shot, shooting as badly at the end as he did in the 80's.

Well its not like he was trash. He has the same post season 3 point percentage as the best player in the league now.

During his prime in the finals he shot the 3 ball as good as almost anyone. 50%, 42% and 40%. The he didnt take barely any in 91 finals so that 50% is a bit of an outlier but he took just over 4 a game in 92 and 93 finals and shot it at a pretty good efficiency as u can see. Pretty sure at one point he had the record for most threes in a half.

[Bronbron23]

There is a big difference between the two in volume. Look at their 3 point attempts:

Jordan: 1,189 attempts from the NBA line* (1985-1993, 1998, 2002-2003)
LeBron: 5,409 attempts (2004-2020)

LeBron has taken 1,456 in the last four seasons alone, which included a 55 game injury season and a 60 game suspended season this year. His 82 game pace for this year was 521 attempts.

It is okay for MJ to not be #1 at every single aspect of basketball. No one is.

*Jordan took 589 threes from the WNBA line from 1995-1997, including 557 during the 96' and 97' seasons. It appears when he was able to make them (MJ shot 40.4% from the WNBA line) he certainly was willing to take them.

im not saying mj is a great 3 point shooter ill im saying is theres not much difference between him and lebron. And Your point about volume isn't a good one. Bron takes more threes because he has to. He cant score in the half court set like mj so alot of the time he just settles for a three. How many times have we seen bron dribble, dribble, dribble trying to figure out a way to get to the hole in the half court set only to settle for a three. The fact that l3bron only shoots the three around 33% but still takes as many as he does isnt a good argument for him

[dbugz]

MJ will be averaging 40PPG atleast, that for sure

GOAT

[Roundball_Rock]

It is easier to be efficient on much less volume. That is common sense. Jordan fans themselves usually are the first to point this out...if Jordan was asked to take 6-7 threes a game that career 29% from the NBA line would nosedive.

[Bronbron23]

It is easier to be efficient on much less volume. That is common sense. Jordan fans themselves usually are the first to point this out...if Jordan was asked to take 6-7 threes a game that career 29% from the NBA line would nosedive.

Nah man thats true with some guys but not all. Mj was always a high volume shooter and was always around 50% until his mid late 30's. Som3 players are great volume scorers some arnt. Lebron is a good example of someone who isnt comfortable as a volume scorer having to force shots. We saw this in 15 finals when kyrie and love went down and he was forced out of element and had to shoot a high volume of shots. His efficiency plummeted. Mj on the other hand is gonna shot 50% no matter if he takes 15 shots or 35 shots.

[PeroAntic]

It is easier to be efficient on much less volume. That is common sense. Jordan fans themselves usually are the first to point this out...if Jordan was asked to take 6-7 threes a game that career 29% from the NBA line would nosedive.

Wrong. The more you shoot, the better your rhythm becomes.

[Roundball_Rock]

This is news to MJ. If he could take more threes and see his efficiency magically increase on 3, 4, 5 times the volume, why didn't he? :lol Threes are worth 50% more than twos, right? Free points. The ultimate competitor just left free points on the table?

All these armchair generals 25 years later who "know" what the players and coaches then did not "know."

[3ball]

There is a big difference between the two in volume. Look at their 3 point attempts:

Jordan: 1,189 attempts from the NBA line* (1985-1993, 1998, 2002-2003)
LeBron: 5,409 attempts (2004-2020)

LeBron has taken 1,456 in the last four seasons alone, which included a 55 game injury season and a 60 game suspended season this year. His 82 game pace for this year was 521 attempts.

It is okay for MJ to not be #1 at every single aspect of basketball. No one is.

*Jordan took 589 threes from the WNBA line from 1995-1997, including 557 during the 96' and 97' seasons. It appears when he was able to make them (MJ shot 40.4% from the WNBA line) he certainly was willing to take them.

Your volume argument is opposite of the truth because the historical record shows that jordan shot better at higher 3-point volume, and always shot well when he took over 1.5 attempts

He had less than 1.5 attempts every year except 90' and 93' when he had 3 attempts at 38% and 35%.

And he shot 35.2% on 2.1 attempts in 85-93' Playoffs, including the 93' run at a combined efficiency/volume that was better than 19' Kawhi.

Finally, he shot 40% when he took 4+ attempts in regular season games from 85-93'

So the lack of getting in a rhythm (lack of volume) helps his case.. the sign of a good shooter is better efficiency at high volume (jordan), versus lower efficiency at high volume (LeBrick)

[Roundball_Rock]

So you guys are saying MJ was an idiot? That he could have easily scored a lot more by taking 3's but couldn't figure it out like people on the internet 30 years later?

It is funny, he sure took a lot of 3's with the shortened line...

Then again according to you all, MJ>Bird as a 3 point shooter.

[PeroAntic]

So you guys are saying MJ was an idiot? That he could have easily scored a lot more by taking 3's but couldn't figure it out like people on the internet 30 years later?

He had a different game. He just wasn't bothered to practice the 3pt shot. Back then the three ball wasn't valued as much as it is today, so because he did everything else at the highest possible level, he didn't really need threes. I don't know why is it so hard to understand.

[Bronbron23]

This is news to MJ. If he could take more threes and see his efficiency magically increase on 3, 4, 5 times the volume, why didn't he? :lol Threes are worth 50% more than twos, right? Free points. The ultimate competitor just left free points on the table?

All these armchair generals 25 years later who "know" what the players and coaches then did not "know."

Well i never said it would increase i just said it be the same and thats why he didn't shoot alot of them. 3's aren't always better than twos so he stuck to his strengths.

[Bronbron23]

So you guys are saying MJ was an idiot? That he could have easily scored a lot more by taking 3's but couldn't figure it out like people on the internet 30 years later?

It is funny, he sure took a lot of 3's with the shortened line...

Then again according to you all, MJ>Bird as a 3 point shooter.

Nah he was smart. He took as many as he should of for someone with his 3ball efficiency which is more i can say for another mediocre long ball great and who in the hell said mj was a better 3 point shooter than bird.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

3 pages in and STILL no evidence Jordan "didn't develop" a three point shot.

Narratives are good comedy. But haters got to understand FACTS are real :lol

[BigShotBob]

3 pages in and STILL no evidence Jordan "didn't develop" a three point shot.

Narratives are good comedy. But haters got to understand FACTS are real :lol

NBA Finals record 6 threes at the half is all you really need to know to answer this question.

[Roundball_Rock]

Other than the evidence of his career from the NBA line...the bottom line is 28.8% on no volume.

[2ball]

If you give MJ the modern sag defense that players face today he could average 8 - 3’s a game on 50%. There is a reason MJ didn’t get many open looks, because he makes you pay.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

NBA Finals record 6 threes at the half is all you really need to know to answer this question.

Yup. Kind of strange for someone who "never developed" an outside shot.


Other than the evidence of his career from the NBA line...the bottom line is 28.8% on no volume.

Which means nothing, because you claimed he NEVER developed one.

Make that 4 pages with no evidence :lol

[j3lademaster]

Other than the evidence of his career from the NBA line...the bottom line is 28.8% on no volume.
Low % and low volume also means desperation and bailout 3s take a higher percentage of your shot selection too.

[RRR3]

If you give MJ the modern sag defense that players face today he could average 8 - 3’s a game on 50%. There is a reason MJ didn’t get many open looks, because he makes you pay.
:roll:

[Roundball_Rock]

If you give MJ the modern sag defense that players face today he could average 8 - 3’s a game on 50%. There is a reason MJ didn’t get many open looks, because he makes you pay.

Shoot like Curry, score like Wilt if he played today, right?

[3ball]

If you give MJ the modern sag defense that players face today he could average 8 - 3’s a game on 50%. There is a reason MJ didn’t get many open looks, because he makes you pay.

Today's spacing and strategy provides OPEN threes

80% of Curry's threes are "open" or "wide open" according to NBA.com (90% for rest of league)

Specifically, 80% of Curry's threes are taken with 4+ feet from closest defender ("open") or 6+ feet ("wide open")

MJ would benefit ftom the spacing and get mostly open threes, like today's player enjoys.. and he'd still be elite at contested shots because of his goat elevation and mndset

[2ball]

Today's spacing and strategy provides OPEN threes

80% of Curry's threes are "open" or "wide open" according to NBA.com (90% for rest of league)

Specifically, 80% of Curry's threes are taken with 4+ feet from closest defender ("open") or 6+ feet ("wide open")

MJ would benefit ftom the spacing and get mostly open threes, like today's player enjoys.. and he'd still be elite at contested shots because of his goat elevation and mndset

Agree. To add to this, watch the knicks/Sonics/heat defense on MJ. They routinely doubled and trapped him off picks and tried to funnel him down the center toward the bigs. Teams knew MJ was lethal going down the baseline and tried to limit him going there as much as possible. MJ worked in impossibly tight situations with little space and still thrived.