Last dance lies

[aceman]

Documentary stated bulls on track to miss playoffs without Jordan in 1995. Actually team was 34-31 & was on pace to finish in same spot that they did with mj;
https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1996_standings.html

[Axe]

Who knows what would have happened to that team if jordan didn't come back at all.

[aceman]

Who knows what would have happened to that team if jordan didn't come back at all.

Doesnt matter - Team was on track to finish 5th & make playoffs

[ThatCoolKid]

Good catch OP. You have a keen eye. Jordan had a strong supporting cast.

[Axe]

Doesnt matter - Team was on track to finish 5th & make playoffs
Well, they still had pj and pippen to spearhead them.

[light]

Documentary stated bulls on track to miss playoffs without Jordan in 1995. Actually team was 34-31 & was on pace to finish in same spot that they did with mj;
https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1996_standings.html

They were 6th in the East before Jordan returned. They finished 5th.

They were going to make the playoffs either way.

[k06em01]

It's not a "documentary" when the object of the documentary has final editorial say.

[Roundball_Rock]

Documentary stated bulls on track to miss playoffs without Jordan in 1995. Actually team was 34-31 & was on pace to finish in same spot that they did with mj;
https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1996_standings.html

Not only that, they were #2 in SRS in the East (same SRS as Phoenix for context) without MJ and just had their best stretch of the season. They were 23-25 at the break but 11-6 since the break, including 8-2, as their results were beginning to catch up to their SRS.

The way this was presented in the "documentary" was of a team circling the drain only to be saved by MJ when in reality they were gaining steam and MJ helped continue and expand that.

[Bankaii]

They also lied about the series vs the Knicks when MJ choked his ass off and made it seem like he’s the reason they came back.

[Roundball_Rock]

They also lied about the series vs the Knicks when MJ choked his ass off and made it seem like he’s the reason they came back.

Yup. It was a classic Jordanstan sleight of hand: go straight from them losing and MJ struggling to Game 4 and his big game (without mentioning he shot 17% in Game 3 and had struggles in Games 5 and 6 too). They didn't explicitly lie but the clear deceptive impression they gave was a motivated MJ came back and torched the Knicks in response to media criticism and led the back.

[daily]

It's not a "documentary" when the object of the documentary has final editorial say.


Exactly.

[Bronbron23]

Documentary stated bulls on track to miss playoffs without Jordan in 1995. Actually team was 34-31 & was on pace to finish in same spot that they did with mj;
https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1996_standings.html

the last dance was full of lies and fabrications. Mj may be an amazing player but hes a less than stellar human being

[SATAN]

the last dance was full of lies and fabrications. Mj may be an amazing player but hes a less than stellar human being

What other lies?

Funny how quickly the hype for this movie fizzled out.

[ArbitraryWater]

What other lies?

Funny how quickly the hype for this movie fizzled out.

Quickly? It was one of the longest trending netflix docs ever

[SATAN]

I meant the media were on MJ's dick like crazy when it came out. Never hear about it anymore, thankfully.

[bullettooth]

Can't wait to watch a LeBron documentary and relive 6 finals losses.

[Marchesk]

Documentaries aren't the objective truth and nothing but the truth. They're a certain perspective on real events where the makers get to choose what to include and what to leave out. And sometimes they have an agenda. See Making a Murderer.

[FireDavidKahn]

Documentaries aren't the objective truth and nothing but the truth. They're a certain perspective on real events where the makers get to choose what to include and what to leave out. And sometimes they have an agenda. See Making a Murderer.

"sometimes"

All do.

[Roundball_Rock]

The media presented the "Last Dance" as objective and amplified each installment uncritically Monday-Friday each week, not as the MJ puff piece that it was. That was the problem with the doc.

[SamuraiSWISH]

They also lied about the series vs the Knicks when MJ choked his ass off and made it seem like he’s the reason they came back.
Choked his ass off?

The 1992 one was referring to his 42 point game 7 performance.

The 1993 one? 32 ppg, 6 rpg, 7 apg, 3 spg is choking his ass off? That’s with a 54 point game 4 explosion too after a rough start to the series shooting the ball. And a game 5 triple double with 14 dimes.

This isn’t a literal choking AND losing total loser scenario like your boy LeBron in 2010 ECSF, 2011 Finals, 2014 Finals, 2015 Finals, and 2018 Finals.

[LAmbruh]

Tough times for Ordan stans, this documentary was their Finals gm 7.


Reliving their 5th Grade childhood and comic book heros


Hopefully they can experience basketball again 20 years from now when the Last Dance HD remaster drops

[goozeman]

Most thought the Bulls were going to win the championship when Jordan came back, so teams basically gave up anyway. First round exit without Jordan.

[Roundball_Rock]

Tough times for Ordan stans, this documentary was their Finals gm 7.


Reliving their 5th Grade childhood and comic book heros


Hopefully they can experience basketball again 20 years from now when the Last Dance HD remaster drops

Some of them haven't been seen since it ended. :lol

[AussieSteve]

Documentary stated bulls on track to miss playoffs without Jordan in 1995. Actually team was 34-31 & was on pace to finish in same spot that they did with mj;
https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1996_standings.html

They were 34-29 with Pippen but no Jordan. Good enough for a 44.5 win pace.

Pretty crazy that Jordan's teams were so good that without him or his 2nd best teammate (Grant/Rodman) they are still a solid playoff team.

How many teams in history could you take away the best and third best player and they're still in the mix for home court in the first round?

[3ball]

They were 34-29 with Pippen but no Jordan. Good enough for a 44.5 win pace.

Pretty crazy that Jordan's teams were so good that without him or his 2nd best teammate (Grant/Rodman) they are still a solid playoff team.

How many teams in history could you take away the best and third best player and they're still in the mix for home court in the first round?

Did you really think a 3-peat team would fall to lottery?

Any 3-peat team will still be playoff caliber without the star, especially an organic team.. i'm surprised people think it's a big deal..

And carrying a borderline playoff team to 3-peat is goat elevation

The Bulls were MJ + role players... The stats show that clearly, especially in the 2nd three-peat.. MJ had goat production rate and stats, while all is teammates'stats sucked

Btw, the Last Dance was a camera crew filming actual events - so it's 100% truthful.. you guys are just complaining about nothing - no specifics

[AussieSteve]

Did you really think a 3-peat team would fall to lottery?

Any 3-peat team will still be playoff caliber without the star, especially an organic team.. i'm surprised people think it's a big deal..

And carrying a borderline playoff team to 3-peat is goat elevation

The Bulls were MJ + role players... The stats show that clearly, especially in the 2nd three-peat.. MJ had goat production rate and stats, while all is teammates'stats sucked

Btw, the Last Dance was a camera crew filming actual events - so it's 100% truthful.. you guys are just complaining about nothing - no specifics

No no. They were a 55 win team without Jordan. And a 45 win team without Jordan and Grant / Rodman. Borderline playoff team without Jordan would be if you took ONLY Jordan off and they finished 6th-8th. Truth is that even without Jordan and Grant/ Rodman, they were still knocking on the door of home court in the 1st round.

And yes, footage in The Last Dance was obviously real, but have you not ever seen reality tv before? The producers can spin the narrative any way they want in production.

[Bankaii]

Choked his ass off?

The 1992 one was referring to his 42 point game 7 performance.

The 1993 one? 32 ppg, 6 rpg, 7 apg, 3 spg is choking his ass off? That’s with a 54 point game 4 explosion too after a rough start to the series shooting the ball. And a game 5 triple double with 14 dimes.

This isn’t a literal choking AND losing total loser scenario like your boy LeBron in 2010 ECSF, 2011 Finals, 2014 Finals, 2015 Finals, and 2018 Finals.
Why can’t you make a post without obsessing over LeBron?
And it’s cute how you just left out the fact that he shot 40%.

The Bulls are down 0-2, and in a game 3 that pretty much would seal the series this is what happened...
MJ: 22 points on 17% (3/18 shooting).
Pip: 29 points on 83%.

Pippin saved that series. But I’m the doc they skipped over this. They showed Jordan making buckets and pretended he “willed” his team back because he “refused to lose”. MJ choked his ass of and Pippen bailed his out. Y’all are literally trying to make it seem like dude never played horribly lmao.

[Roundball_Rock]

No no. They were a 55 win team without Jordan. And a 45 win team without Jordan and Grant / Rodman. Borderline playoff team without Jordan would be if you took ONLY Jordan off and they finished 6th-8th. Truth is that even without Jordan and Grant/ Rodman, they were still knocking on the door of home court in the 1st round.

And yes, footage in The Last Dance was obviously real, but have you not ever seen reality tv before? The producers can spin the narrative any way they want in production.

Good points. Plus they were better than their record. SRS is a better predictor of long term team performance. The Bulls were second in SRS in the East.

Jordan stans jump up and down telling us how great a team the Pacers were so let's use them as a comp. As you noted, the Bulls were 34-29 with Pippen and that includes a game where he was ejected in the second quarter and they lost to a 17 win team without him (they were up before that). So they were de facto 34-28 with him. That translates to a 36-29 win pace heading to Indiana. The Pacers were 39-24.

The difference? The Pacers had their full core of Miller, Smits, Jackson, McKey, and Davis. The Bulls were down Jordan, Grant/Rodman, and Cartwright. In other words, three of the four non-Pippen starters from the 93' team. No other team from that era could lose that much and remain this good.

We saw the Lakers, Magic, Celtics, Cavs all go down the tubes losing just their best player in that same era. We saw Indiana miss the playoffs with prime Miller because they didn't have Jackson for 50 games and Smits for 30 games. Imagine a team like the Knicks without Ewing, Oakley, and Smith. Do they win 30 games?


But I’m the doc they skipped over this. They showed Jordan making buckets and pretended he “willed” his team back because he “refused to lose”.

Yup, it was deceptive editing. Being MJ stans, they were slick enough to not explicitly lie while intentionally conveying a deceptive impression.

[HoopsNY]

Why can’t you make a post without obsessing over LeBron?
And it’s cute how you just left out the fact that he shot 40%.

The Bulls are down 0-2, and in a game 3 that pretty much would seal the series this is what happened...
MJ: 22 points on 17% (3/18 shooting).
Pip: 29 points on 83%.

Pippin saved that series. But I’m the doc they skipped over this. They showed Jordan making buckets and pretended he “willed” his team back because he “refused to lose”. MJ choked his ass of and Pippen bailed his out. Y’all are literally trying to make it seem like dude never played horribly lmao.

Excellent points. The docuseries completely left that out.

Another one was how they made it seem that Gary Payton's defense on MJ was no big deal. MJ got shut down by GP, period. He laughed it off, but everyone else knew the deal.

[Roundball_Rock]

What was interesting as well as disappointing is a lot of this spin was obvious--yet the media did no fact checking in their "coverage."

Another big oversights was no mention of the Hue Hollins call. That was relevant to the outcome of that season but not even mentioned. Scott Williams was basically :wtf: about that omission when he was on the Bulls podcast.

[Marchesk]

They were 34-29 with Pippen but no Jordan. Good enough for a 44.5 win pace.

Pretty crazy that Jordan's teams were so good that without him or his 2nd best teammate (Grant/Rodman) they are still a solid playoff team.

How many teams in history could you take away the best and third best player and they're still in the mix for home court in the first round?

We've seen the Raptors without the league's best player and another starter in Danny green as a #2 seed defending their title, even when several other players like Lowry were hurt to start the season.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Can't wait to watch a LeBron documentary and relive 6 finals losses.
:lol

And all the team hopping ... and his excuse making sycophants

It would be utterly pathetic. But can’t wait for it. ESPN 30 for 30 presents

Not 7, Not 8

3 for 9: More than a Finals Loser

[insidious301]

Lies or just biased? Skipping bad and forgettable games in a pro Jordan documentary isn't what I would call a crime. Coincidentally, after the first couple of episodes you knew the "docu" would be pro Jordan. That was my problem because going in you thought it was about the Bulls as a whole. The narrator did mention Jordan's gambling and playoff struggles in 1993 however. From my vantage point, the criticism there is unwarranted.

[Roundball_Rock]

Lies or just biased? Skipping bad and forgettable games in a pro Jordan documentary isn't what I would call a crime.

What the OP mentioned was a clear falsehood but generally what they did was not lie but be deceptive, like how they portrayed the Bulls-Knicks series. Jordan made 3 baskets in that game and they showed 2 of them with the obvious suggestion that he beasted and "willed the team" back after getting some bad press while gambling in AC down 0-2 in the series.

Was the lie the OP noted intentional? I don't think so. I see a lot of MJ stans say that, even though it is laughable (the 8 seed won 35 games--the Bulls already had 34 with 17 games left), because of the echo chamber they create for themselves everywhere. Via non-stop repetition they start to believe their own myths so the guy who made the doc probably honestly believes it. Still, it is a "doc" produced for the major sports channel in the U.S. No excuse for them not to do fact checking like any legit documentary would do.

[3ball]

Why can’t you make a post without obsessing over LeBron?
And it’s cute how you just left out the fact that he shot 40%.

The Bulls are down 0-2, and in a game 3 that pretty much would seal the series this is what happened...
MJ: 22 points on 17% (3/18 shooting).
Pip: 29 points on 83%.

Pippin saved that series. But I’m the doc they skipped over this. They showed Jordan making buckets and pretended he “willed” his team back because he “refused to lose”. MJ choked his ass of and Pippen bailed his out. Y’all are literally trying to make it seem like dude never played horribly lmao.

Bulls were up 25 at halftime and didn't need MJ or Pippen to win game 3 - the Knicks had a 2-0 series lead and thought they could give a game away.. that was a big mistake because MJ dropped 54 in Game 4, which forced the Knicks to double him in Game 5 - so the Knicks gave away game 3, and MJ controlled the remainder of the series

[Roundball_Rock]

The deception we are talking about. Maybe 1-9ball worked on the "doc"? :lol

Jordan shot 11 for 24 in Game 5 (he had a triple double but only scoring counts, right? :oldlol: ) and 8 for 24 in Game 6. He went stone cold in the second half of Game 6 and made zero field goals over the final 22-23 minutes. See http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?140520-Michael-Jordan-Anti-clutch-Log


Game 1 vs. Knicks 1993: Jordan goes just 2 for his last 12 shot. Knicks pull away as Jordan was a no show in the second half, and was scoreless for several key stretches in the second half.

1993 ECF vs. Knicks (game 6): Goes 0-7 in fourth quarter (Pippen bails Bulls out with clutch shots though).

[3ball]

The deception we are talking about. Maybe 1-9ball worked on the "doc"? :lol

Jordan shot 11 for 24 in Game 5 (he had a triple double but only scoring counts, right? :oldlol: ) and 8 for 24 in Game 6. He went stone cold in the second half of Game 6 and made zero field goals over the final 22-23 minutes. See http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?140520-Michael-Jordan-Anti-clutch-Log

Again, Jordan's outburst in Game 4 finished the series because the Knicks had to double him the rest of the series - so Jordan controlled the Knicks from Game 4 onwards.. normally this happens earlier in the series but better late than never.

[PETRO2222]

You can talk whatever you want, BUT in my opinion there are 4 ICONIC PEOPLE FOR ETERNITY: Bruce Lee, Michael Jordan, Elvis Presley & Diego Maradona, and let me explain:

I was always saying and always will, if you combine charisma+impact on world+pop-culture+medias fame+impact on global knowledge about them, there are (in my opinion) 4 DEMI-GODS (nevermind do you like them or not, they are KNOWN for everyone), 4 ICONIC PEOPLE (in no particular order): Elvis Presley, Michael Jordan, Bruce Lee and Diego Maradona.

Only 2 of them are still alive :).

Just think about this; if you would mention any of this 4 names to any average person (doesn't matter where, doesn't matter what is person's age); person will know about any of them, even if you would mention this to some granny on street (haha) she would know for any of this 4 people, even if such person wouldn't EVEN KNOW HOW she or he heard about them, SHE/HE would KNOW about them. That's my whole point.

P.S. And yeah, Im european, and trust me when I say, from our non-american point of view, to even try to place LeBron (OR ANYONE) from Basketball near Michael Jordan (as global phenomenon), it's really and honestly... for LAUGHING, and no offence to anyone.

Michael Jordan is not only the GOAT of basketball, he is more than Basketball, known around the world (today and in his time before fast internet) 10 times more than LeBron James, imagine that, durin 90's, without fast internet, youtube etc... Jordan was 10 times more known and popular around the world than LeBron James is today.

I remember everythin durin 90's, I was kid back in 90's, and I am sorry if you new generation never experienced that period, and I am sorry you dont have such LEGEND in your time to watch, but that's not my fault or fault of Jordan (or James), you're just living in garbage world of today where Basketball (or any other sport) has no soul anymore, and everything is... artificial.

Greets

[FKAri]

You can talk whatever you want, BUT in my opinion there are 4 ICONIC PEOPLE FOR ETERNITY: Bruce Lee, Michael Jordan, Elvis Presley & Diego Maradona, and let me explain:

I was always saying and always will, if you combine charisma+impact on world+pop-culture+medias fame+impact on global knowledge about them, there are (in my opinion) 4 DEMI-GODS (nevermind do you like them or not, they are KNOWN for everyone), 4 ICONIC PEOPLE (in no particular order): Elvis Presley, Michael Jordan, Bruce Lee and Diego Maradona.

Only 2 of them are still alive :).

Just think about this; if you would mention any of this 4 names to any average person (doesn't matter where, doesn't matter what is person's age); person will know about any of them, even if you would mention this to some granny on street (haha) she would know for any of this 4 people, even if such person wouldn't EVEN KNOW HOW she or he heard about them, SHE/HE would KNOW about them. That's my whole point.

P.S. And yeah, Im european, and trust me when I say, from our non-american point of view, to even try to place LeBron (OR ANYONE) from Basketball near Michael Jordan (as global phenomenon), it's really and honestly... for LAUGHING, and no offence to anyone.

Michael Jordan is not only the GOAT of basketball, he is more than Basketball, known around the world (today and in his time before fast internet) 10 times more than LeBron James, imagine that, durin 90's, without fast internet, youtube etc... Jordan was 10 times more known and popular around the world than LeBron James is today.

I remember everythin durin 90's, I was kid back in 90's, and I am sorry if you new generation never experienced that period, and I am sorry you dont have such LEGEND in your time to watch, but that's not my fault or fault of Jordan (or James), you're just living in garbage world of today where Basketball (or any other sport) has no soul anymore, and everything is... artificial.

Greets
Key point of your post: "I was a kid back then". This is your nostalgia speaking. You mention that modern athletes are only big because of Youtube and the internet yet ignore the fact that MJ was greatly aided by being part of the first global sports marketing campaign of its kind. A luxury past superstars including Maradona didn't really have. The first attempt of this kind in soccer was with Ronaldo but his injury derailed his commercial apotheosis. Other then that basketball was at the forefront of this trend and MJ reaped the rewards. I'll grant you Maradona. He did not have the benefit of the kind of mass marketing campaign that his successors had. He did really pull off some incredible feats. Single handedly at times.

MJ may be the GOAT of basketball but anything beyond that and you have to start talking about the roles of Nike, The 92 Olmypics, and American international sports broadcasting in creating that image.

[SATAN]

Exactly. The false idol worship due to marketing is sickening.

[SATAN]

Lies or just biased? Skipping bad and forgettable games in a pro Jordan documentary isn't what I would call a crime. Coincidentally, after the first couple of episodes you knew the "docu" would be pro Jordan. That was my problem because going in you thought it was about the Bulls as a whole.

This is the main problem I had with it too. You could clearly see the direction it was moving and it's going to be MJ telling his own version of events for almost 10 hours (or at best, it's edited to make him look like a god, like all his old movies).

10 hours :oldlol:

[BigtimeNBAFan]

Well sure it was a super pro Jordan centric documentary out to make him look like a God.

I believe Jordan was the greatest ever and even I think it went a bit overboard. I get it though. If Jordan is not 100% on board the documentary doesn't get made. As a big time basketball fan as we all are on here, I think we can agree it was more important that this amazing documentary got made even with its bias than if it wasn't made at all. It is probably the best sports documentary ever done.

[PETRO2222]

Key point of your post: "I was a kid back then". This is your nostalgia speaking. You mention that modern athletes are only big because of Youtube and the internet yet ignore the fact that MJ was greatly aided by being part of the first global sports marketing campaign of its kind. A luxury past superstars including Maradona didn't really have. The first attempt of this kind in soccer was with Ronaldo but his injury derailed his commercial apotheosis. Other then that basketball was at the forefront of this trend and MJ reaped the rewards. I'll grant you Maradona. He did not have the benefit of the kind of mass marketing campaign that his successors had. He did really pull off some incredible feats. Single handedly at times.

MJ may be the GOAT of basketball but anything beyond that and you have to start talking about the roles of Nike, The 92 Olmypics, and American international sports broadcasting in creating that image.

It doesn't matter I was a kid back then, I clearly remember that Jordan was (and is, STILL IS more known than James EVER WILL BE) known everywhere here in Europe, it doesn't matter if you were kid or granny durin 90's, it doesn't matter did someone like basketball or not durin 90's, EVERYONE knew (and still knows) for JORDAN, he was and is part of planetary POP-CULTURE, a part of human civilization if you want, and to be honest no one cares here for James (in comparison to Jordan, I repeat; in comparison to Jordan), he is just one more great player... nothin more nothin else.

LeBron James? Just a basketball player... that's it, with all due respect. A superstar YES, but just a basketball superstar.

And this about Jordan, everyone will say who ever was close to MJ, check it on youtube, or check it for yourself, even today, when Michael walks the street, its like a Demi-God walks, people are like CRAZY for him.

LeBron James and today's superstarts have everythin (considering technology, MJ never had somethin like that in his time) on their side to have somethin like that AND STILL THEY'RE NOT EVEN CLOSE to that status.

My point remains; Jordan is up there AMONGST THE VERY BEST of this planet, amongst the best HUMAN SPECIES ever produced, and who the f...k is Lebron James? Sorry but you know Im right about this.

And doesn't matter whatever James (or anyone else) do, nothin will change that.

Medias are trying 24 hours per day in last 15 years to create out of LeBron somethin HE WASN'T BORN WITH, which is; charisma of THE LEGEND beyond sports, he will never be that nevermind how hard medias are trying, either you have it or not, James doesn't have it, and Jordan was born with that and when Jordan dies one day he will be amongst the very best this species ever gave to humanity, compare that to James and James and Jordan cannot be in the same book, not to mention on the same paper.

[FKAri]

It doesn't matter I was a kid back then, I clearly remember that Jordan was (and is, STILL IS more known than James EVER WILL BE) known everywhere here in Europe, it doesn't matter if you were kid or granny durin 90's, it doesn't matter did someone like basketball or not durin 90's, EVERYONE knew (and still knows) for JORDAN, he was and is part of planetary POP-CULTURE, a part of human civilization if you want, and to be honest no one cares here for James (in comparison to Jordan, I repeat; in comparison to Jordan), he is just one more great player... nothin more nothin else.

LeBron James? Just a basketball player... that's it, with all due respect. A superstar YES, but just a basketball superstar.

And this about Jordan, everyone will say who ever was close to MJ, check it on youtube, or check it for yourself, even today, when Michael walks the street, its like a Demi-God walks, people are like CRAZY for him.

LeBron James and today's superstarts have everythin (considering technology, MJ never had somethin like that in his time) on their side to have somethin like that AND STILL THEY'RE NOT EVEN CLOSE to that status.

My point remains; Jordan is up there AMONGST THE VERY BEST of this planet, amongst the best HUMAN SPECIES ever produced, and who the f...k is Lebron James? Sorry but you know Im right about this.

And doesn't matter whatever James (or anyone else) do, nothin will change that.

Medias are trying 24 hours per day in last 15 years to create out of LeBron somethin HE WASN'T BORN WITH, which is; charisma of THE LEGEND beyond sports, he will never be that nevermind how hard medias are trying, either you have it or not, James doesn't have it, and Jordan was born with that and when Jordan dies one day he will be amongst the very best this species ever gave to humanity, compare that to James and James and Jordan cannot be in the same book, not to mention on the same paper.
Those people in Europe didn't really understand the sport well enough or cared for it so his basketball playing ability was lost on them. There are plenty of athletes that are GOATs of what they do. Some with an even wider margin than MJ, but if you don't understand the sport, it doesn't matter.
MJ wasn't particularly charismatic either like say Ali. He wasn't memorable in that manner. He put his head down, gave PC answers to media and went to work.
He wasn't born with "a legend beyond sports". He cried and shat in his diaper just like everyone else.
People outside the US saw a barrage of commercials/propaganda and a guy jumping really high. That's about it.
What made him special from the superstars after him is that he was the first in the global sports marketing machine's pipeline.
The MJ, Michael Jackson is more worthy of being on your list. He could perform for strangers and they'd become fans almost anywhere in the world. They wouldn't need constant commercial reinforcement telling them he was something special.

[PETRO2222]

Those people in Europe didn't really understand the sport well enough or cared for it so his basketball playing ability was lost on them. There are plenty of athletes that are GOATs of what they do. Some with an even wider margin than MJ, but if you don't understand the sport, it doesn't matter.
MJ wasn't particularly charismatic either like say Ali. He wasn't memorable in that manner. He put his head down, gave PC answers to media and went to work.
He wasn't born with "a legend beyond sports". He cried and shat in his diaper just like everyone else.
People outside the US saw a barrage of commercials/propaganda and a guy jumping really high. That's about it.
What made him special from the superstars after him is that he was the first in the global sports marketing machine's pipeline.
The MJ, Michael Jackson is more worthy of being on your list. He could perform for strangers and they'd become fans almost anywhere in the world. They wouldn't need constant commercial reinforcement telling them he was something special.

We agree to disagree about Jordan, in my opinion is up there with those 3 guys I mentiones :).

Yeah I was thinking about M.Jackson but decided to go without him, Jordan had huge impact on world, HUGE, nevermind he was first.

Because you're american I don't know how informed you are what was done to Maradona durin his years of playin in Europe (Italy, Naples).

Imagine this man; people were so obsessed with him that they were naming churches in Naples after him (Santa/Saint Maradona), they would place true and real church pictures of him near Jesus in churches, in many cases he was more important to religious people than Jesus, I mean that's just... never heard of.

Imagine how can this fu...k you up as a person during time, I mean if you would be in his shoes back then, that you cannot go out because to people you're more important than Jesus (to religious people btw lol). And ofcourse those things unfortunately drove him in late 80's (after his golden years) into drugs, he said he wanted to way our from his skin and body because of his popularity, imagine that man. Fortunately he got out from that.

He was so charismatic (even today wherever he goes), always fighting with medias, always stubborn, trough all of his mistakes in life ourside of football/soccer field, he reamins; GRANDE DIEGO. When you mentioned Ali, I think 100% Ali also respected Maradona, I mean that guy was like storm for people (outside of USA).

Anyway... there is so many we can learn from each others considering history of sport, I mean Europe and USA, two worlds, and I think even americans would be like; WTF if you would see new documentary about Maradona, it really is; WTF.

Check out this video please :D (Remember, this game was on world cup against England, billion people watching..., and Argentina had war with England 2 years ago prior to this, before this goal he scored a goal with hand vs england, referee didnt see it, he called it HAND OF GOD ahah, but look at this goal, also commentary from the guy on microphone lol durin this goal... JESUS lol):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wVho3I0NtU

[Lebron23]

Chuck Norris would destroy Bruce lee in a real fight just like lebron destroying Jordan in a head to head matchup. Lebron is 12-5 vs a Jordan Clone like Kobe.

[PETRO2222]

Chuck Norris would destroy Bruce lee in a real fight just like lebron destroying Jordan in a head to head matchup. Lebron is 12-5 vs a Jordan Clone like Kobe.

LeBron is just another... hm... gay-coward player, and he will be remembered as a LOSER, not as a winner, so... get over it.

[Lebron23]

LeBron is just another... hm... gay-coward player, and he will be remembered as a LOSER, not as a winner, so... get over it.

The only loser in this thread is you. Keep living in your nostalgic fantasy. This ain't the 1990's son. Welcome to 2020.

[rawimpact]

Can't wait to watch a LeBron documentary and relive 6 finals losses.

Hopefully they dont wait too long after lebrons retirement, not sure how long Delonte West will be around. If they get his interview right now it'd be smart

[PETRO2222]

The only loser in this thread is you. Keep living in your nostalgic fantasy. This ain't the 1990's son. Welcome to 2020.

No one ever has done what LeBron has done and he's done nothing at all, when you sum it all up. He will be remembered for losing all those finals, and those he won, he won in ARTIFICIAL TEAM MIAMI HEAT.

The only ring I respect LeBron won was with Cavs, that's it, he is just another superstar trough history of basketball who will be remembered like... we remember for example Kareem, but that's it, Jordan will remain as God.

I know this is not 1990's, because if it was 1990's, your LeBron gay would cry every game because NBA HAD DEFENCE back then, and harsh defence that was, it wasnt league for gays.

It's not my fault your entire millenial generation (I guess you are millenial) is a lost generation, lost in space, considering basketball, music, sports in general etc... just lost in time and space, and you will NEVER AND I MEAN NEVER feel how is to watch REAL BASKETBALL, and I feel sorry for your gay-pus...y generation.

[Lebron23]

No one ever has done what LeBron has done and he's done nothing at all, when you sum it all up. He will be remembered for losing all those finals, and those he won, he won in ARTIFICIAL TEAM MIAMI HEAT.

The only ring I respect LeBron won was with Cavs, that's it, he is just another superstar trough history of basketball who will be remembered like... we remember for example Kareem, but that's it, Jordan will remain as God.

I know this is not 1990's, because if it was 1990's, your LeBron gay would cry every game because NBA HAD DEFENCE back then, and harsh defence that was, it wasnt league for gays.

It's not my fault your entire millenial generation (I guess you are millenial) is a lost generation, lost in space, considering basketball, music, sports in general etc... just lost in time and space, and you will NEVER AND I MEAN NEVER feel how is to watch REAL BASKETBALL, and I feel sorry for your gay-pus...y generation.

Durant outdid him when he joined the Warriors in 2016. Yes, I am a Millenial. We are the best generation in history. I am enjoying the nba right now compared to the low scoring era in the 1990's, and early 2000's. By the way Michael Jordan only averaged 5 ppg against the Toronto Raptors in the 2002-03 season, and most of those games Vince Carter didn't even play. You're clearly a gay european Petro2222. You guys loves to suck D1cks.

[LAL]

No one ever has done what LeBron has done and he's done nothing at all, when you sum it all up. He will be remembered for losing all those finals, and those he won, he won in ARTIFICIAL TEAM MIAMI HEAT.

The only ring I respect LeBron won was with Cavs, that's it, he is just another superstar trough history of basketball who will be remembered like... we remember for example Kareem, but that's it, Jordan will remain as God.

I know this is not 1990's, because if it was 1990's, your LeBron gay would cry every game because NBA HAD DEFENCE back then, and harsh defence that was, it wasnt league for gays.

It's not my fault your entire millenial generation (I guess you are millenial) is a lost generation, lost in space, considering basketball, music, sports in general etc... just lost in time and space, and you will NEVER AND I MEAN NEVER feel how is to watch REAL BASKETBALL, and I feel sorry for your gay-pus...y generation.
I agree. But... Michael Jackson > Elvis. I've seen his starpower in arab, african, russian and asian countries.

[PETRO2222]

I agree. But... Michael Jackson > Elvis. I've seen his starpower in arab, african, russian and asian countries.

I dont know, I was in dilemma about Michael Jackson and Elvis, but I had to pick one, I picked Elvis, I think he is slightly in front of Jackson when it comes about global impact ... I mean... both of them are very near, but... Let's go with Elvis haha. One MJ is already amongst that 4 :D

[LAL]

I dont know, I was in dilemma about Michael Jackson and Elvis, but I had to pick one, I picked Elvis, I think he is slightly in front of Jackson when it comes about global impact ... I mean... both of them are very near, but... Let's go with Elvis haha. One MJ is already amongst that 4 :D

:cheers:

[PETRO2222]

Durant outdid him when he joined the Warriors in 2016. Yes, I am a Millenial. We are the best generation in history.

Oh sure you are, your time period has produced so many legends in sports, movies, music etc? ROFL.

Maybe you are the best how to sit in front of computer and jerk off on android mobile all day, you're best in that for sure. But when it comes how to go outside and play basketball or any sports all day (like we did once), then you're out of natural habitat (computers, mobiles etc).

When it comes about dating girls, if wasn't for facebook, instagram etc you would be social invalids to make any move on girls.

But hey, I gues we are the generation to blame for what happened to yours, because my generation actually created this Hell you're living in today, we were that generation which created all of this, facebook, youtube, instagram etc..., but we couldnt know back then it will create hell like this, we were living in some period which had both OLD SCHOOL and new school (talking about period of let's say late 90s and early 2000s).

It was hard to imagine for us next generation will become THIS.

It was hard to imagine back then Basketball in general (not just NBA) will become GARBAGE as it is today, or any other sports for that matter.

P.S. And last but not least, funny thing is, LeBron doesn't belong to your generation lol, doesn't matter I dont like him, he is still some relic from our time, when he's done, then NBA is in world of troubles, only Kawhi can save NBA.

By the way Kawhi is my favorite player of today, playing like old school players, he has all fundamentals and he is using old school way of playing for destroying everyone, and he is doing that.

When you compare 90's and today's era, you think Warriors (in their prime time few years ago) could do shit against let's say Bulls of 90's? Hahhahahahahahah

Dont make me laugh, Steph Curry wouldn't be able to see three point line spot, let alone to shoot for three, same goes for Thompson.

Rodman would bring Draymond Green to the point of madness, Jordan would make Steph cry during the game and Pippen would do same for Thompson.

MY DEAR FRIEND, YOU ARE LIVING IN DREAM WORLD OF NBA TODAY, where defence DOESN'T EXIST.

Why do you think European players (and I am european) are catching with you so fast today? Because defence was THE BEST THING NBA had over entire planet, now without that...

As Luka said once; it's easier for him to play in NBA than in Euroleague lol.

[PETRO2222]

:cheers:

:cheers:

[PETRO2222]

I agree. But... Michael Jackson > Elvis. I've seen his starpower in arab, african, russian and asian countries.

I will now leave here some of the best scenes with all 4 of them... something which will remind you how great they were about all this I've said :)

As I've said :) if you combine charisma+impact on world+pop-culture+medias fame+impact on global knowledge about them, there are (in my opinion) 4 DEMI-GODS (nevermind do you like them or not, they are KNOWN for everyone), 4 ICONIC PEOPLE: Elvis Presley, Michael Jordan, Bruce Lee and Diego Maradona.


BRUCE LEE




ELVIS PRESLEY


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqBdTn3_0Rw



MICHAEL JORDAN (By the way I made this video for Jordan so please check it out hehe)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReyHfN-NMpo


DIEGO MARADONA


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLAUI6pSFSs


P.S. REST IN PEACE ELVIS AND BRUCE.[/QUOTE]

[LAL]

I will now leave here some of the best scenes with all 4 of them... something which will remind you how great they were about all this I've said :)

As I've said :) if you combine charisma+impact on world+pop-culture+medias fame+impact on global knowledge about them, there are (in my opinion) 4 DEMI-GODS (nevermind do you like them or not, they are KNOWN for everyone), 4 ICONIC PEOPLE: Elvis Presley, Michael Jordan, Bruce Lee and Diego Maradona.


BRUCE LEE




ELVIS PRESLEY


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqBdTn3_0Rw



MICHAEL JORDAN (By the way I made this video for Jordan so please check it out hehe)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReyHfN-NMpo


DIEGO MARADONA


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLAUI6pSFSs


P.S. REST IN PEACE ELVIS AND BRUCE.[/QUOTE]

Born and raised in Europe too, i understand it all. They were exactly what you said they were. Michael Jackson too.

[LAL]

Funny how messi can break all the records and score a million goals and will never be respected like maradona in his country. Winning world cup would've helped but diego was a god in his boca/napoli days.

[PETRO2222]

Born and raised in Europe too, i understand it all. They were exactly what you said they were. Michael Jackson too.

Well my european friend, I wish americans could grasp how Maradona was and is big... my God... I really would like that.

That man was so famous they built churches for him calling them SAINT MARADONA, placing his pictures near Jesus...

Billions of people, not millions, but billions.

And in the end his story is what makes him in my opinion what he is, is this; BRAVE, HERO, ANGEL AND DEMON in the same time.

All of that fame just destroyed him in the end (drugs, but he survived that, still alive), because he couldn't handle it, few humans could.

I wish they watch new documentary about him, in my opinion it EQUALS LAST DANCE, totally equals it.

I always say to my friends and collegue in work; Maradona is not the best Soccer/Football player of all time BUT MARADONA IS FOOTBALL/SOCCER itself. period.

:cheers:

[PETRO2222]

Funny how messi can break all the records and score a million goals and will never be respected like maradona in his country. Winning world cup would've helped but diego was a god in his boca/napoli days.

Messi can bring ALIENS with him on football field but still more people will love Maradona.

Messi is nothing more but Maradona's copy, he was copying him in everything, even the number 10, and as you know copy can never be like original.

I mean Maradona was not just football/soccer, he was... jesus christ if there is somethin close in this world what came close to demi-God for people, that was Maradona, same goes for Jordan etc.

I wonder how many churches were named SAINT MESSI? How many song they sang about Messi? About Maradona they sang songs, named churches... JESUS...

TOTAL MADNESS, but in positive way, but madness lol, crazy times.

[LAL]

Messi can bring ALIENS with him on football field but still more people will love Maradona.

Messi is nothing more but Maradona's copy, he was copying him in everything, even the number 10, and as you know copy can never be like original.

I mean Maradona was not just football/soccer, he was... jesus christ if there is somethin close in this world what came close to demi-God for people, that was Maradona, same goes for Jordan etc.

I wonder how many churches were named SAINT MESSI? How many song they sang about Messi? About Maradona they sang songs, named churches... JESUS...

TOTAL MADNESS, but in positive way, but madness lol, crazy times.

Americans and kids won't understand. Yes messi is absolutely a copy of maradona, that's all i see, but maradona was more of a demon, had personality and a winners mentality. The fame was unreal, and then coke scandal was crazy to witness back in the day.

[PETRO2222]

Americans and kids won't understand. Yes messi is absolutely a copy of maradona, that's all i see, but maradona was more of a demon, had personality and a winners mentality. The fame was unreal, and then coke scandal was crazy to witness back in the day.

Yeah.

I think I never saw famous person who is that famous and you cannot decide is he angel or demon, but BOTH IN THE SAME TIME.

Angel because of his HEART, flame, he truly played the game FROM HEART, BURNING HEART, and the rest... damnnn, he was a DEMON, but Demon ... we all love hahahah

[PETRO2222]

Americans and kids won't understand. Yes messi is absolutely a copy of maradona, that's all i see, but maradona was more of a demon, had personality and a winners mentality. The fame was unreal, and then coke scandal was crazy to witness back in the day.

I think Michael Jordan and Diego Maradona should meet hahaha, I think they should smoke a cigar or something togethar haha.

It would be like see Jesus and Buddha sitting togethar, or I dont know... Caesar and Alexander the Great...

It would be a sight haha. I think they should do it, someone should do somethin about this XD

[LAL]

I think Michael Jordan and Diego Maradona should meet hahaha, I think they should smoke a cigar or something togethar haha.

It would be like see Jesus and Buddha sitting togethar, or I dont know... Caesar and Alexander the Great...

It would be a sight haha. I think they should do it, someone should do somethin about this XD
Yeah that would be cool, but both past their primes, that's why i thank god for the "Jam" music video lol

[SATAN]

Seems like most basketball fans have already forgotten this "documentary" (which is really the equivalent of a Kim Jong-un propaganda extravaganza) was made. This guy seems to have some good insights on the semi fictional amateurish doco-series. I find his thoughts on the matter interesting. How about you guys?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8_IpBi_61w

[LAmbruh]

Some of them haven't been seen since it ended. :lol

indeed :lol