When it comes to efficient volume scoring MJ is on his own island

[2ball]

On April 27, 1997, Chris Webber and the Washington Bullets were visiting the Chicago Bulls for Game 2 of their first-round playoff series. It didn't go well.

Michael Jordan went off, scoring 55 points, equaling his highest output since he returned from retirement in 1995. It was an amazing display, but how he did it was telling.

MJ didn't nibble around the edges or hunt foul calls all night. He made just one 3-pointer. He had 10 points at the line. He scored 42 on 2-point field goals alone. :biggums:

Jordan scored 20 of the Bulls' 23 points in the fourth quarter of a close game.

His usage rate was an absurd 45%, but he was efficient, needing just 35 shots to get his 55 points. The rest of the Bulls scored 54 points on 43 shots.

[light]

On April 27, 1997, Chris Webber and the Washington Bullets were visiting the Chicago Bulls for Game 2 of their first-round playoff series. It didn't go well.

Michael Jordan went off, scoring 55 points, equaling his highest output since he returned from retirement in 1995. It was an amazing display, but how he did it was telling.

MJ didn't nibble around the edges or hunt foul calls all night. He made just one 3-pointer. He had 10 points at the line. He scored 42 on 2-point field goals alone. :biggums:

Jordan scored 20 of the Bulls' 23 points in the fourth quarter of a close game.

His usage rate was an absurd 45%, but he was efficient, needing just 35 shots to get his 55 points. The rest of the Bulls scored 54 points on 43 shots.

35 shots and 2 assists is shameful.

[Roundball_Rock]

35 shots and 2 assists is shameful.


On Jan. 16, for example, when Pippen was asked about Jordan's 64-point explosion in a 128-124 overtime loss that night to the Orlando Magic in Chicago, he just pointed to this stat: Jordan, 49 shots. After Jordan's 54-point gem in Game 4 of the Eastern finals, Pippen said, "Michael had a hot hand, but when that happens, there's a lot of isolation, and it allowed New York to get back into the game. It's not that we don't want him to get his points, but it makes it tough for others to step up when they need to."

That is the problem with ball hogging in a nutshell.

https://vault.si.com/vault/1993/06/14/eye-of-the-storm-a-versatile-star-led-the-bulls-to-a-4-2-elimination-of-the-knicks-and-he-wasnt-named-jordan

[RRR3]

49 shots :roll:

[ThatCoolKid]

That is the problem with ball hogging in a nutshell.

https://vault.si.com/vault/1993/06/14/eye-of-the-storm-a-versatile-star-led-the-bulls-to-a-4-2-elimination-of-the-knicks-and-he-wasnt-named-jordan

Great point. There is so much more to basketball than just jacking up shot attempts.

[Roundball_Rock]

Great point. There is so much more to basketball than just jacking up shot attempts.

The data suggest the Bulls' performed a lot better when MJ shared the ball versus when he hogged the ball:

Here is how the Bulls' did in the 10 games MJ took the most shots in his prime:

1996: 9-1 (63-9 in other games)
1993: 5-5 (52-20 in other games)
1992: 7-3 (60-12 in other games)
1991: 5-5 (56-16 in other games)
1990: 6-4 (49-23 in other games)
1989: 5-5 (42-30 in other games)
1988: 4-6 (46-26 in other games)
1987: 3-7 (37-35 in other games)

How about the 10 games MJ took the least shots?

1996: 10-0 (Bulls 17-0 when MJ took 18 or less shots)
1993: 9-1 (Bulls 15-1 when MJ took 21 or less shots)
1992: 10-0 (Bull 24-0 when MJ took 19 or less shots)
1991: 9-1 (Bulls 28-1 when MJ took 21 or less shots)
1990: 8-2
1989: 6-4
1988: 6-4
1987: 3-7

The Bulls were unbeatable when prime MJ shared the ball during the title years.

[Rico2016]

35 shots and 2 assists is shameful.

[2ball]

The thing is the the Bull’s HAD to rely on MJ’s 45% usage rate in order to win and MJ CAME through
20-23 points scored in the 4th quarter for the bulls was done by MJ

[Roundball_Rock]

Just like the Dream Team "needed" Jordan to take 40% more shots than the second shot taker and nearly double the third, right?

[Im so nba'd out]

"2ball"

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/HugeFarawayJapanesebeetle-size_restricted.gif

[Soundwave]

Jordan took more shots on nights when his teammates didn't have it, that was a luxury for the Bulls that you could take 10-15 regular season games off a season or go run off for a Vegas vacation and still have a chance to win because you have the greatest scorer in the history of the sport.

It's not a downside. The point of the game is to score the damn ball through the hoop, you don't get extra cupcake points or a participation trophy for making 5 passes to get a basket rather than one.

[Indian guy]

There is no "right way" to play the game. Whatever style optimizes your wins is the right way for you. For the Bulls, it was clearly MJ doing what he does best - scoring. A lot. Once he had a solid enough team around him (1990), he pretty much never lost. And it's easy to see why. Efficient volume scoring is by far the most valuable skill you can bring on the basketball court. And MJ did it better than anybody in history.

[NBAGOAT]

Jordan took more shots on nights when his teammates didn't have it, that was a luxury for the Bulls that you could take 10-15 regular season games off a season or go run off for a Vegas vacation and still have a chance to win because you have the greatest scorer in the history of the sport.

It's not a downside. The point of the game is to score the damn ball through the hoop, you don't get extra cupcake points or a participation trophy for making 5 passes to get a basket rather than one.

you do for making a shot 55% of the time over 50% of a time. both teams have the same amount of possessions no the point is actually not to score the most points, it's to be more efficient than the other team on the same amount of possessions. a shot on a possession that's seen more quality passes(obviously just playing hot potato on the perimeter could easily be argued as a negative) is higher percentage than one that hasnt, the tracking data verifies it.

Ofc it's no problem for jordan his volume is on an island and he's very efficient. I put him on an island for career but I might not put him on an island for just individual seasons. kobe have volume seasons on fair efficiency. durant is behind on volume but has a clear edge in efficiency. curry lags in volume but no one has been as efficient as him the last 5 years(yes even accounting for era)

durant vs some jordan years

https://backpicks.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Durant-scoring-and-efficiency.png

[Soundwave]

There is no "right way" to play the game. Whatever style optimizes your wins is the right way for you. For the Bulls, it was clearly MJ doing what he does best - scoring. A lot. Once he had a solid enough team around him (1990), he pretty much never lost. And it's easy to see why. Efficient volume scoring is by far the most valuable skill you can bring on the basketball court. And MJ did it better than anybody in history.

Exactly, some people act like daring to score the freaking basketball is a crime.

If you want to watch some wussified sport where players just pass the ball around and no one wants to shoot because someone else's feelings might be hurt, go watch figure skating instead, this isn't the sport for you.

Michael Jordan never even lost 3 games in a row from any point in the 1990s after November 1990. For an entire freaking decade basically. I don't think any basketball player can claim something like that, forget just winning at set times, dude just didn't lose much period once he was given a good squad to work with.

[HoopsNY]

It's pretty scary to think what the Bulls would have done if he didn't shoot as much during the late 80s. It's possible the Bulls go from a 50 to a 60 win team and add another title or two. Yikes.

[Roundball_Rock]

The efficiency mythology ignores 50% is an average. Jordan was taking a million shots whether he was 40% or 60% on that given day.


Efficient volume scoring is by far the most valuable skill you can bring on the basketball court. And MJ did it better than anybody in history.

Wilt and Kareem were even more efficient. Durant, LeBron too unless you cherry pick a definition of "volume" to exclude them. Different positions--but we can't keep giving MJ fake credit for things he didn't do.


Jordan took more shots on nights when his teammates didn't have it

Speculation. Someone would have to look at those games and compare his teammates' efficiency in those games to their normal efficiency.

Even if true, that doesn't absolve Jordan. Teammates can't get going if they never touch the ball--which is why the triangle had to be put in, why a pass first player had to become the primary playmaker, why Jordan in the final game of his 7th season had to be taught to pass to a wide open player, etc. Jordan (hero) ball didn't work.


On Jan. 16, for example, when Pippen was asked about Jordan's 64-point explosion in a 128-124 overtime loss that night to the Orlando Magic in Chicago, he just pointed to this stat: Jordan, 49 shots. After Jordan's 54-point gem in Game 4 of the Eastern finals, Pippen said, "Michael had a hot hand, but when that happens, there's a lot of isolation, and it allowed New York to get back into the game. It's not that we don't want him to get his points, but it makes it tough for others to step up when they need to."

https://vault.si.com/vault/1993/06/14/eye-of-the-storm-a-versatile-star-led-the-bulls-to-a-4-2-elimination-of-the-knicks-and-he-wasnt-named-jordan

[Indian guy]

Wilt and Kareem were even more efficient. Durant, LeBron

Except none of those guys were doing it at MJ's volume. That's the point. Nobody was averaging the points MJ was at his level of efficiency.

[Indian guy]

The data suggest the Bulls' performed a lot better when MJ shared the ball versus when he hogged the ball:

Here is how the Bulls' did in the 10 games MJ took the most shots in his prime:

1996: 9-1 (63-9 in other games)
1993: 5-5 (52-20 in other games)
1992: 7-3 (60-12 in other games)
1991: 5-5 (56-16 in other games)
1990: 6-4 (49-23 in other games)
1989: 5-5 (42-30 in other games)
1988: 4-6 (46-26 in other games)
1987: 3-7 (37-35 in other games)

How about the 10 games MJ took the least shots?

1996: 10-0 (Bulls 17-0 when MJ took 18 or less shots)
1993: 9-1 (Bulls 15-1 when MJ took 21 or less shots)
1992: 10-0 (Bull 24-0 when MJ took 19 or less shots)
1991: 9-1 (Bulls 28-1 when MJ took 21 or less shots)
1990: 8-2
1989: 6-4
1988: 6-4
1987: 3-7

The Bulls were unbeatable when prime MJ shared the ball during the title years.

This is meaningless unless context is applied. The low FGA games in particular are likely blowouts where MJ's minutes were very low.

It's impossible to criticize MJ's shoot-first approach to the game given the success he had once he had adequate support around him.

[LostCause]

On MJ's volume/efficiency...


Among the Big 4 box dimensions — scoring rate, efficiency relative to league average (rTS), box creation and adjusted turnover percentage — Jordan stands above the pack. He is the only player with three-year averages in all of those categories above the 85th percentile historically

Historians have mislabeled Wilt as the game’s most “dominant” scorer, but that epitaph should belong to Jordan. He holds the highest pace-adjusted scoring rate in NBA history and six of the nine highest-scoring rates of all time. He litters the record book with more high-efficiency, high-volume seasons than anyone
https://backpicks.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Jordan-Volume-and-Efficiency-1024x698.png

A more selective filter demonstrates Jordan’s singular brilliance: In only 11 NBA seasons has someone scored over 30 per 75 at +6 percent rTS, and Jordan owns four of them (Karl Malone has two, Shaq, LeBron, Curry and Kevin Durant have one each).

From his Backpicks profile ofc

[1987_Lakers]

3ball slowly changing his user to 2ball because he knows MJ was a horrific 3 point shooter.

[Rico2016]

3ball slowly changing his user to 2ball because he knows MJ was a horrific 3 point shooter.

28% on 1000 shots if you take out Fisher Price Lil Tykes years.

[3ball]

Only MJ won by using 35% of possessions

Only MJ could win this way because his efficiency per possession was goat at that volume

[Rico2016]

Only MJ won by using 35% of possessions

Only MJ could win this way because his efficiency per possession was goat at that volume

Only MJ was selfish enough to do this regularly...

[3ball]

Only MJ was selfish enough to do this regularly...

Only pippen peaked at 22 ppg as #1 option... :facepalm:

Everyone else was at mid-high 20's like kobe, curry, Wade, kyrie, love, Bosh - all mid-high 20's.... Pippen - 22... :oldlol:

^^^ that's why the bulls needed MJ to have goat usage to win - if he couldn't do it, the bulls would lose like other high-usage failures, aka lebron in 2015 or others - they always shoot poorly at that volume or play poor brand... Again, only MJ could win by using that many possessions

[Rico2016]

Only mj's sidekick peaks at 22 ppg as #1 option... :facepalm:

Everyone else is eh 20's like kobe, curry, Wade, kyrie, love, Bosh - all mid-high 20's.... Pippen - 22... :oldlol:

^^^ that's why the bulls needed MJ to have goat usage to win - if he couldn't do it, the bulls would lose like other high-usage failures, aka lebron in 2015 or others - they always shoot poorly at that volume or play poor brand... Again, only MJ could win by using that many possessions

6,911

[Rico2016]

Imagine taking more shots to score less points.

https://i.postimg.cc/zvzLHqCN/20200528-235717.jpg

Bron wins again. Less FGA and more points scored. G.O.A.T level stuff.

[3ball]

6,911

^^^ Can you break that down to a per game basis?

And who was the biggest pace-adjusted producer (points per 100 + assists per 100)

[Rico2016]

^^^ Can you break that down to a per game basis?

And who was the biggest pace-adjusted producer (points per 100 + assists per 100)

Why did MJ play fewer games in equal playoffs?

Why did MJ score less points on MORE shots?

LBJ G.O.A.T.

[3ball]

Why did MJ play fewer games in equal playoffs?

Why did MJ score less points on MORE shots?

LBJ G.O.A.T.

Why did lebron score 5 less per game on worse efficiency per possession?

There's never been a player who did that and wasn't considered the MUCH worse player

5 less per game on worse efficiency... Yikes... I'd rather have MJ thanks

[Rico2016]

Why did lebron score 5 less per game on worse efficiency per possession?

There's never been a player who did that and wasn't considered the MUCH worse player

5 less per game on worse efficiency... Yikes... I'd rather have MJ thanks

You ducked my questioning. Typical. I will try again (and dont feel embarrassed this time).

#1 Why did MJ play fewer playoff games, make fewer Finals, and win fewer playoff series compared to LeBron (both played in 13 playoffs)?

#2 Why did MJ need to take more shots to score less points? MJ took 4,497 shots to score 5,987. LBJ took 4,379 shots to score 5,995.

#3 Why did MJ have a lower points per shot ratio? MJ's is 1.331 pps. LBJs was 1.369 when he passed MJ in scoring. Now LBJ is at 6,911 points on 5,006 for 1.380. Both are better than MJ.

[3ball]

#1 Why did MJ play fewer playoff games



It's because Lebron's weak teams/low seeds all missed the playoffs (04', 05', 19'), therefore avoiding quick exits.. he always had a high seed and therefore longer runs.

And jordan didn't go 7 with weak teams





make fewer Finals,



You needed a juggernaut to win the 80's East... Weak teams like the 01' Sixers, 09' Magic, 07' Cavs or 03' Nets couldn't win it back then.. lebron simply formed a strong cast in a conference that weak teams were routinely winning, hence the Finals streak.





#2 Why did MJ need to take more shots to score less points? MJ took 4,497 shots to score 5,987. LBJ took 4,379 shots to score 5,995.



MJ took a lot less free throws and 3-pointers

But both MJ and lebron have 57-58% true shooting in the playoffs - and shooting efficiency falls under the umbrella of per-possession efficiency (ortg), where mj's is higher





#3 Why did MJ have a lower points per shot ratio? MJ's is 1.331 pps. LBJs was 1.369 when he passed MJ in scoring. Now LBJ is at 6,911 points on 5,006 for 1.380. Both are better than MJ



MJ took a lot less free throws and 3-pointers

But both MJ and lebron have 57-58% true shooting in the playoffs - and shooting efficiency falls under the umbrella of per-possession efficiency (ortg), where mj's is higher






(both played in 13 playoffs)?




^^^ Why does MJ have twice as many rings?

And better offenses despite less offensive help?