Which players have had a better 5-year stretch than Stephen Curry in NBA history?

[Stephonit]

I see people who don't consider Curry a top all-time player yet saying that he hasn't had a long enough career to qualify. But when I think about it, I cannot think of many players who can claim to have had a better 5 straight years than Curry. Who do you think has had a better 5-year period than Curry?

[SouBeachTalents]

Ones that won a FMVP and didn't blow a 3-1 lead in the Finals

[Stephonit]

Ones that won a FMVP and didn't blow a 3-1 lead in the Finals

Can you name names?

[SouBeachTalents]

Can you name names?
If I'm being dead serious, quite a few

89-93 Jordan
12-16 LeBron
98-02 Shaq
01-05 Duncan
86-90 Magic
84-88 Bird
91-95 Hakeem
06-10 Kobe

[999Guy]

What has Curry done the past 5 years that is exclusive to just him?

[Rysio]

Kobe, shaq, Jordan, LeBron, durant, Bird, kareem, magic and some more probably.

[Bankaii]

Shaq 2000-04
Lebron 2012-16
Duncan 2003-07
Kobe 2006-10
Those are all easy ones. KD was a better player and looked better on paper during that stretch. Steph’s 2015 ring might give him the edge

[Phoenix]

MJ 88-93: 3 rings, 3 FMVPs, 3 MVPs, DPOY

MJ 93-98: 3 rings, 3 FMVPs, 2 MVPs

Shaq 2000-2005: 3 rings, 3 FMVPs, 1 MVP

Lebron 2009-2014: 2 rings, 2 FMVPs, 4 MVPs

Magic 85-90: 3 rings, 1 FMVPs, 3 MVPs

Bird 81-86: 3 rings, 2 FMVPs, 3 MVPs( back to back to back)

Duncan 99-04: 2 rings, 2 FMVPs, 2 MVPs

Hakeem 90-95: 2 rings, 2 FMVPs, 1 MVP, 2 DPOY

Kobe 05-10: 2 rings, 2 FMVPs, 1 MVP

All warrant fair consideration.

[Bronbron23]

I see people who don't consider Curry a top all-time player yet saying that he hasn't had a long enough career to qualify. But when I think about it, I cannot think of many players who can claim to have had a better 5 straight years than Curry. Who do you think has had a better 5-year period than Curry?

Not sure why your using a 5 year stretch as the barometer for being an atg so lets look at the better barometer which is whole careers. Steph has 2 MVP's, 1 scoring title 1 chip as the best player on his team and 0 fmvps. That definitely makes him an atg player but there are plenty of players with better accolades and chips as the best player. Theres the obvious like mj, magic, kareem, bird, shaq, russell, kobe, bron, kd, hakeem, duncan and kawhi. Then theres other guys who also have 1 chip or more as the best player like wade, dr j and isiah thomas. There could be other guys from before the 80's but ill leave that alone sense i dont know enough about them. One of the other big things that makes these guys better than steph is defense which as you know is half the game.

That said that still puts steph as probably the 3rd best point gaurd ever and somewhere in the top 15-20 all time which is still pretty great.

[Stephonit]

What has Curry done the past 5 years that is exclusive to just him?
From 2015-2019 seasons Curry led the league every year in raw plus-minus. He set the all-time record for it in the 2017 season the same season he set the playoffs record for it. He set the 402 threes mark in 2016. Threes in consecutive games. Threes in a playoffs run. Threes in the playoffs period. Threes in a finals game. Highest average points per game in a playoffs sweep. Points scored in overtime. Career free throw percentage. Eliminated 2 closest MVPs in time (other than himself) in the same series. Faced and eliminated all the All-NBA First Team (other than himself) of the same year in consecutive series. Led a team to the best regular season record. Led a team to the best playoffs record. Led a team to three consecutive 67-win or more seasons.

Did someone else do any of that?

[HoopsNY]

Steph is a great offensive force. The reason he will never be recognized as highly as some of the other guys is because he never won a finals MVP, won 2 rings on a super-team with KD, and was never a great defensive player. I like Steph, but he's never going to be top 10.

[Stephonit]

Steph is a great offensive force. The reason he will never be recognized as highly as some of the other guys is because he never won a finals MVP, won 2 rings on a super-team with KD, and was never a great defensive player. I like Steph, but he's never going to be top 10.

Every year someone is given an FMVP by eleven voters like Rachel Nichols. Records are only broken when they are surpassed.

I will tell you why I knew Curry was an all-time great even four years ago. He breaks significant records. Only the very best in history do that and no amount of narrative or media spin can be created for lesser players as an adequate substitute.

[Bronbron23]

From 2015-2019 seasons Curry led the league every year in raw plus-minus. He set the all-time record for it in the 2017 season the same season he set the playoffs record for it. He set the 402 threes mark in 2016. Threes in consecutive games. Threes in a playoffs run. Threes in the playoffs period. Threes in a finals game. Highest average points per game in a playoffs sweep. Points scored in overtime. Career free throw percentage. Eliminated 2 closest MVPs in time (other than himself) in the same series. Faced and eliminated all the All-NBA First Team (other than himself) of the same year in consecutive series. Led a team to the best regular season record. Led a team to the best playoffs record. Led a team to three consecutive 67-win or more seasons.

Did someone else do any of that?

Dude your just cherry picking shit. Your 3 point arguments are mute because threes arnt any better than players thats scored in other ways like midrange post or at the rim. Scoring is scoring.

Here's the facts. Steph has 1 chip as the best player, 2 mvps, 1 scoring titles and 0 fmvps. Theres lots of guys with better resumes. Steph is a top 15-20 ever. Nothing wrong with that

[tpols]

Chef may be the best team enhancer of all time amongst magic, russell, duncan, etc.

the on/off numbers are staggering.

and individually he can blow you up for ATG scoring avalanche. ^^^ none of those guys could do that.

[Bronbron23]

Chef may be the best team enhancer of all time amongst magic, russell, duncan, etc.

the on/off numbers are staggering.

and individually he can blow you up for ATG scoring avalanche. ^^^ none of those guys could do that.

Your forgot to put in except for the finals

[Stephonit]

Dude your just cherry picking shit. Your 3 point arguments are mute because threes arnt any better than players thats scored in other ways like midrange post or at the rim. Scoring is scoring.

Wrong. Three-point scoring is efficient scoring and efficient scoring is better scoring.


Here's the facts. Steph has 1 chip as the best player, 2 mvps, 1 scoring titles and 0 fmvps. Theres lots of guys with better resumes. Steph is a top 15-20 ever. Nothing wrong with that

Media awards are opinions not facts. Wins are facts. Even taking that into account, there are only 9 players in NBA history with multiple MVPs and rings and Curry is one of them. Those with an argument for having a better 5-year period than Curry are even fewer.

[HoopsNY]

Every year someone is given an FMVP by eleven voters like Rachel Nichols. Records are only broken when they are surpassed.

I will tell you why I knew Curry was an all-time great even four years ago. He breaks significant records. Only the very best in history do that and no amount of narrative or media spin can be created for lesser players as an adequate substitute.

I understand that. But with 5 finals appearances and 0 FMVPs, it's pretty telling. His playoff performances are underwhelming tbh and he does not offer a defensive presence. Guys like Shaq, Lebron, Mj, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Hakeem, etc have iconic moments, MVPs AND Finals MVPs, were defensively sound, etc.

I'm not trying to belittle Steph, but his first title comes when Kevin Love didn't play in the finals and Kyrie Irving gets injured in OT. I'm not saying Cleveland for sure would have won, but they stood a much better chance with a healthy Kyrie and Love. Lebron had to carry that load for all but one game.

His other two titles come off of the strength of a super-team that included the other best player in the league alongside Lebron. That takes away from his accomplishments, especially when he loses with Klay and Draymond against the Raptors. If he is as iconic as some of the other guys, then he would have as good of a resume. Furthermore, is he as impactful defensively as guys like Lebron, Mj, Hakeem, Shaq, or Bird? I don't believe so.

[tpols]

you guys realize FMVP is voted on by a bunch of nerd journalists right?

with heavy input from their managers and execs... right?

If you want the cold hard facts theyre available to you. GOAT +/- and near GOAT efficiency on superstar volume while leading record breaking dynasty.

Them's the facts.

[Carbine]

They may have been voted on by those people but they got it right every time.

[scuzzy]

you guys realize FMVP is voted on by a bunch of nerd journalists right?

with heavy input from their managers and execs... right?

If you want the cold hard facts theyre available to you. GOAT +/- and near GOAT efficiency on superstar volume while leading record breaking dynasty.

Them's the facts.


Hubie Brown, Jeff Van Gundy, Jon Barry, Marc Jackson = nerd journalists



"Dem Da Facts"



:yaohappy:

[Bronbron23]

Wrong. Three-point scoring is efficient scoring and efficient scoring is better scoring.



Media awards are opinions not facts. Wins are facts. Even taking that into account, there are only 9 players in NBA history with multiple MVPs and rings and Curry is one of them. Those with an argument for having a better 5-year period than Curry are even fewer.

dude thats so narrow minded. Threes arnt always better. That has to be the dumbest shit ive ever heard. Out of all the nba champs and fmvps how many of them were the best three point shooters in the league? Maybe 4 out of the last 40 chips.

And your multiple mvp and rings argument means nothing. MVP's factor in to tbe equation but i bet most of those guys also have fmvps. How many does steph have? Fmvps factor in also. You cant just dismiss it because steph don't have any and it doesn't fit your narrative

[SouBeachTalents]

They may have been voted on by those people but they got it right every time.
For real, how many FMVP's over the last 30 years would you say were egregious? The only one I think people would have a major problem with would be Iggy

[tpols]

Hubie Brown, Jeff Van Gundy, Jon Barry, Marc Jackson = nerd journalists



"Dem Da Facts"



:yaohappy:

there are many more voters than that dummy. and they were journalists.

[Stanley Kobrick]

For real, how many FMVP's over the last 30 years would you say were egregious? The only one I think people would have a major problem with would be Iggy

we still can't even find iconic Stephen Curry playoff moment let alone finals moment. even draymond green has his game 7 light show and steve kerr has his gm 6 shot

[Bronbron23]

For real, how many FMVP's over the last 30 years would you say were egregious? The only one I think people would have a major problem with would be Iggy

Pretty much this and im not sure that iggy one wasnt warranted. It depends on what you think was more important. Steph scoring 26 pts a game which is 10 more than iggy or iggys defense on lebron forcing him to shoot under 40% which is his lowest shooting percentage ever.

Heres a good question. How many people have scored 26 points in a finals? How many people have held lebron or any atg like lebron to sub 40% shooting percentage for a series? Personally id say iggys defense was more impressive

[Stanley Kobrick]

Pretty much this and im not sure that iggy one wasnt warranted. It depends on what you think was more important. Steph scoring 26 pts a game which is 10 more than iggy or iggys defense on lebron forcing him to shoot under 40% which is his lowest shooting percentage ever.

Heres a good question. How many people have scored 26 points in a finals? How people have held lebron or any atg like lebron to sub 40% shooting percentage for a series? Personally id say iggys defense was more impressive
most of stephen curry's scoring in the 2015 finals came in garbage time when warriors were way up or out of the game. look at his points when the gamescore was between +5/-5. his teammates made the big plays during crunch time

[SouBeachTalents]

Pretty much this and im not sure that iggy one wasnt warranted. It depends on what you think was more important. Steph scoring 26 pts a game which is 10 more than iggy or iggys defense on lebron forcing him to shoot under 40% which is his lowest shooting percentage ever.

Heres a good question. How many people have scored 26 points in a finals? How many people have held lebron or any atg like lebron to sub 40% shooting percentage for a series? Personally id say iggys defense was more impressive
I actually think Iggy was the most deserving player from the Warriors in 2015. Him being inserted into the starting lineup clearly shifted the momentum of the series, and while LeBron's shooting was atrocious all year, Iggy still managed to do the best job of covering him, his defense playing a critical role in the Finals. Curry's numbers aren't even as good as they ended up looking, he scored so many of his points in the 4th quarter with the game basically out of reach

[Stephonit]

dude thats so narrow minded. Threes arnt always better. That has to be the dumbest shit ive ever heard. Out of all the nba champs and fmvps how many of them were the best three point shooters in the league? Maybe 4 out of the last 40 chips.

Out of all the NBA champs which team is considered the best? If the Golden State Warriors are the pick, why? Shooting baby. Shooting. 3-point shooting especially.



And your multiple mvp and rings argument means nothing. MVP's factor in to tbe equation but i bet most of those guys also have fmvps. How many does steph have? Fmvps factor in also. You cant just dismiss it because steph don't have any and it doesn't fit your narrative

If my experience watching the Warriors disagrees with the assessment of others on why they win why cannot I dismiss their opinions? Media awards have a bias towards stat-padding individuals, why should I treat them seriously if I recognize the importance of team play? Why should I or anyone take seriously an award that is narrative focused and has a history of voters changing their votes to appease television network priorities? Why should I consider a tacked on opinion to a championship anything close to the value of the championship itself? The question isn't why hasn't Curry been awarded an FMVP, the is question why hasn't the FMVP been able to recognize the essential role Curry plays in winning those championships. The FMVP should be dismissed if it doesn't give an accurate reading of how those championships were won. When you hear people determining the votes peddling hogwash like Harden is better than Curry despite Harden losing every series against Curry the past decade why should anyone put any value to what the media says?

[Bronbron23]

most of stephen curry's scoring in the 2015 finals came in garbage time when warriors were way up or out of the game. look at his points when the gamescore was between +5/-5. his teammates made the big plays during crunch time

yeah goid point. Im not sure how much that warriors team really needed steph. They were cruising through the first 2 rounds in the the playoffs the year after. Where they missed stephed offensively they made up on the other end where steph was a liability. Im not sure the warriors dont still beat the loveless and kyrieless cavs anyway

[Stanley Kobrick]

yeah goid point. Im not sure how much that warriors team really needed steph. They were cruising through the first 2 rounds in the the playoffs the year after. Where they missed stephed offensively they made up on the other end where steph was a liability. Im not sure the warriors dont still beat the loveless and kyrieless cavs anyway
since 2015 the warriors are 8-2 without stephen curry in the playoffs, they've won multiple series without him. even the infamous i'm her i'm back game warriors were already up 2-1 vs blazers without him

[Stephonit]

since 2015 the warriors are 8-2 without stephen curry in the playoffs, they've won multiple series without him. even the infamous i'm her i'm back game warriors were already up 2-1 vs blazers without him

They've only won one series in which Curry didn't play at all and that was the series against the first round Spurs when they had Durant.

[Bronbron23]

Out of all the NBA champs which team is considered the best? If the Golden State Warriors are the pick, why? Shooting baby. Shooting. 3-point shooting especially.



If my experience watching the Warriors disagrees with the assessment of others on why they win why cannot I dismiss their opinions? Media awards have a bias towards stat-padding individuals, why should I treat them seriously if I recognize the importance of team play? Why should I or anyone take seriously an award that is narrative focused and has a history of voters changing their votes to appease television network priorities? Why should I consider a tacked on opinion to a championship anything close to the value of the championship itself? The question isn't why hasn't Curry been awarded an FMVP, the is question why hasn't the FMVP been able to recognize the essential role Curry plays in winning those championships. The FMVP should be dismissed if it doesn't give an accurate reading of how those championships were won. When you hear people determining the votes peddling hogwash like Harden is better than Curry despite Harden losing every series against Curry the past decade why should anyone put any value to what the media says?

the kd warriors are considered the best because they added kd to already championship squad. You could add kd to any championship team in the history of the game and they automatically become one of the bezt teams ever. I. Assuming your not talking about pre kd Warriors because nobody consideres them the beat team ever because of q regular season achievement.

Problem is you give credit for winning 2 MVP's but say fmvps are dumb because voters dont know shit. Theres been just as many bad mvps given out. You cant have it both ways.

As far as stephs impact i think you overrate it. They were doing just fine without him in 16 without him. Did you watch those games? The warriors were a little bit worse offensively but better defensively. With iggy holding lebron to sub 40% shooting theres no reason why they still wouldn't be able to beat the cavs in the finals.

And last ill give you the harden argument. I think people are crazy saying hes better than steph

[r0drig0lac]

probably all 2-way superstars in the history of the game

[RRR3]

I actually think Iggy was the most deserving player from the Warriors in 2015. Him being inserted into the starting lineup clearly shifted the momentum of the series, and while LeBron's shooting was atrocious all year, Iggy still managed to do the best job of covering him, his defense playing a critical role in the Finals. Curry's numbers aren't even as good as they ended up looking, he scored so many of his points in the 4th quarter with the game basically out of reach
All I can say is at the time very few people thought Curry played up to par in the finals. There’s been a ton of revisionist history going on with how he played with people just quoting his numbers to argue he should have been FMVP. At the time I feel like I remember most people thinking Iggy or LeBron deserved it.

[Jordan96]

About 30-40 players all time

[Bronbron23]

since 2015 the warriors are 8-2 without stephen curry in the playoffs, they've won multiple series without him. even the infamous i'm her i'm back game warriors were already up 2-1 vs blazers without him

yeah man ive tried telling steph stans this but they just ignore it

[RRR3]

Out of all the NBA champs which team is considered the best? If the Golden State Warriors are the pick, why? Shooting baby. Shooting. 3-point shooting especially.



If my experience watching the Warriors disagrees with the assessment of others on why they win why cannot I dismiss their opinions? Media awards have a bias towards stat-padding individuals, why should I treat them seriously if I recognize the importance of team play? Why should I or anyone take seriously an award that is narrative focused and has a history of voters changing their votes to appease television network priorities? Why should I consider a tacked on opinion to a championship anything close to the value of the championship itself? The question isn't why hasn't Curry been awarded an FMVP, the is question why hasn't the FMVP been able to recognize the essential role Curry plays in winning those championships. The FMVP should be dismissed if it doesn't give an accurate reading of how those championships were won. When you hear people determining the votes peddling hogwash like Harden is better than Curry despite Harden losing every series against Curry the past decade why should anyone put any value to what the media says?
How the hell was Harden supposed to beat Curry when Curry had ten times as much help as he did? :oldlol:

[Stanley Kobrick]

probably all 2-way superstars in the history of the game
he's one of the only superstars in nba history who doesn't play defense and camps in the corner while klay picks up the opposing teams tougher guards. everytime

[SouBeachTalents]

All I can say is at the time very few people thought Curry played up to par in the finals. There’s been a ton of revisionist history going on with how he played with people just quoting his numbers to argue he should have been FMVP. At the time I feel like I remember most people thinking Iggy or LeBron deserved it.
That's one that historically is always going to be considered one of the biggest FMVP snubs of all time. People looking up that series in 2040 are gonna have no idea how the hell Iggy won FMVP over Curry.

But you're right, that's something that over the years has been apart of a lot of revisionist history. I still remember thinking how lame it was gonna be that Curry was gonna win FMVP, I thought they would NEVER give it to anyone other than the player who was, by far, the highest scoring player on the team, not to mention the MVP and the future face of the league. But the voters pleasantly surprised me by picking Iggy.

Voters aren't infallible, they've made mistakes with MVP & All-NBA/All-Defensive selections, but it's not a coincidence that after giving him MVP, and on the verge of making him the first unanimous MVP in league history, Curry didn't get a single vote for FMVP that year

[Stephonit]

the kd warriors are considered the best because they added kd to already championship squad. You could add kd to any championship team in the history of the game and they automatically become one of the bezt teams ever. I. Assuming your not talking about pre kd Warriors because nobody consideres them the beat team ever because of q regular season achievement.

Technically they weren't a championship squad when KD joined because they lost in the finals. So why are you saying they were a championship squad? Because they might as well have been. If the Warriors were healthy they could easily have won that finals and if so you think no one would consider them the best team ever?



Problem is you give credit for winning 2 MVP's but say fmvps are dumb because voters dont know shit. Theres been just as many bad mvps given out. You cant have it both ways.

Did I give credit to the 2 MVPs? I don't believe I did but if so that's still a different animal when you have over 100+ people trying to agree on something. Which would make a unanimous MVP pretty notable....



As far as stephs impact i think you overrate it. They were doing just fine without him in 16 without him. Did you watch those games? The warriors were a little bit worse offensively but better defensively. With iggy holding lebron to sub 40% shooting theres no reason why they still wouldn't be able to beat the cavs in the finals.


It's cute that you think Iguodala's defense was worth more than Curry's 26 points of scoring and the attention that he demanded. Thing is I don't even have a problem with the award going to Iguodala in isolation. That award could be justified on narrative grounds. However the second Durant FMVP completely undid the rationale for the Iguodala award. The basic problem with the FMVPs is that they do not give an accurate account of what the team was like. It's like an article about the attack on Pearl Harbor that gets the details and numbers right but is shown on page 11 and not on the front page. It's like saying 100000 may die so Covid-19 is just like the flu. By getting that third shot at giving the award to Curry wrong the award discredited their earlier FMVP awards to the Warriors because it gave a flat out inaccurate picture of the team. As a historical record it is misleading bunk. The award fails in the only function that may justify its existence.

[Bronbron23]

Technically they weren't a championship squad when KD joined because they lost in the finals. So why are you saying they were a championship squad? Because they might as well have been. If the Warriors were healthy they could easily have won that finals and if so you think no one would consider them the best team ever?



Did I give credit to the 2 MVPs? I don't believe I did but if so that's still a different animal when you have over 100+ people trying to agree on something. Which would make a unanimous MVP pretty notable....



It's cute that you think Iguodala's defense was worth more than Curry's 26 points of scoring and the attention that he demanded. Thing is I don't even have a problem with the award going to Iguodala in isolation. That award could be justified on narrative grounds. However the second Durant FMVP completely undid the rationale for the Iguodala award. The basic problem with the FMVPs is that they do not give an accurate account of what the team was like. It's like an article about the attack on Pearl Harbor that gets the details and numbers right but is shown on page 11 and not on the front page. It's like saying 100000 may die so Covid-19 is just like the flu. By getting that third shot at giving the award to Curry wrong the award discredited their earlier FMVP awards to the Warriors because it gave a flat out inaccurate picture of the team. As a historical record it is misleading bunk. The award fails in the only function that may justify its existence.
The warriors were healthy enough. Steph was fine he was doing 360's in warm ups dude. As far as your question yes i would consider them one if the bestvteams ever if they won but they didn't. Theres lots of teams that would of been considered greater if a ball bounced a different way but it didn't thats sports qnd that's just how it is. Dosnt mean thwy weren't a great team though because they were. Add kd to any great championship caliber team and they become one of the greatest teams.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the MVPs vs FMVP's. Alot of the time the best players dont win mvp. Same goes for tbe fmvp i really dont see the difference.

And i also would of been fine with steph winning fmvp in 2015 but i have no problem with iggy getting it. Steph fans totally ignore the importance of defense even though its half the game. Iggys defence on bron is definitely debatably as important as the extra 10 points a game from steph. The second mvp to durant was fine also. Im not sure what you were seeing. Kd was as good or better in literally almost everything. Kd had more points while being alot more efficient. He also had more rebounds while almost having equal assists. Steph had less than 1 assists more a game. On the defensive end of the ball its not close kd was much better.

[Stephonit]

How the hell was Harden supposed to beat Curry when Curry had ten times as much help as he did? :oldlol:

The first time they met in a playoffs series Harden had finals veterans and former champions on his team like Howard, Terry, and Ariza while Curry led a cast that didn't have anyone who'd made a previous conference finals.

[RRR3]

The first time they met in a playoffs series Harden had finals veterans and former champions on his team like Howard, Terry, and Ariza while Curry led a cast that didn't have anyone who'd made a previous conference finals.
Curry had Klay, Dray, Iggy and Bogut and Harden had the corpse of Dwight Howard and role players. Seems fair :yaohappy:

[Stephonit]

probably all 2-way superstars in the history of the game

All of them made 5 straight finals with the same franchise? News to me.


Curry had Klay, Dray, Iggy and Bogut and Harden had the corpse of Dwight Howard and role players. That same corpse who led that playoffs in rebounds per game and is now playing on the Lakers 5 years later?

[RRR3]

All of them made 5 straight finals with the same franchise? News to me.

That same corpse now playing on the Lakers 5 years later?
Dwight’s last year as a star was 2014. The last year he was still at his best was 2012.

[light]

I see people who don't consider Curry a top all-time player yet saying that he hasn't had a long enough career to qualify. But when I think about it, I cannot think of many players who can claim to have had a better 5 straight years than Curry. Who do you think has had a better 5-year period than Curry?

2 MVPs and 0 Finals MVP over 5 years is not impressive.

LeBron James had a 5 year stretch of 4 MVPs and 2 Finals MVPs.

Michael Jordan had a 5 year stretch of 2 MVPs and 3 Finals MVPs.

[Turbo Slayer]

The first time they met in a playoffs series Harden had finals veterans and former champions on his team like Howard, Terry, and Ariza while Curry led a cast that didn't have anyone who'd made a previous conference finals. The problem is that you act like if players stay the same course for the rest of their careers. Of course not.

Some players retire prematurely, retire because of injuries, retire because they are getting old, or retire for other personal reasons. Also a player might play like a superstar for 1 season and then revert back to mediocre status the next year. You get what I mean? There's way too many variables involved in a player's career to not affect it. Players decline, simple as that. Some rapidly and some so slow you don't even notice it.

Dwight Howard is one example of many. Dwight Howard in 2015 wasn't the same as Dwight Howard in 2010.

[Stephonit]

2 MVPs and 0 Finals MVP over 5 years is not impressive.

LeBron James had a 5 year stretch of 4 MVPs and 2 Finals MVPs.

Michael Jordan had a 5 year stretch of 2 MVPs and 3 Finals MVPs.

LeBron 2009-2013?

Jordan 1989-1993?

LeBron would probably prefer to forget how the end of the 2009, 2010, and 2011 seasons came about.

Jordan's three rings out of three finals appearances are nice but the same number of rings and 5 finals appearances is better.


The problem is that you act like if players stay the same course for the rest of their careers. Of course not.

Some players retire prematurely, retire because of injuries, retire because they are getting old, or retire for other personal reasons. Also a player might play like a superstar for 1 season and then revert back to mediocre status the next year. You get what I mean? There's way too many variables involved in a player's career to not affect it. Players decline, simple as that. Some rapidly and some so slow you don't even notice it.

Dwight Howard is one example of many. Dwight Howard in 2015 wasn't the same as Dwight Howard in 2010.

This is an issue for everyone. But in all of NBA history what Curry has done is rare even unprecedented and he repeated his success over multiple seasons. It isn't an accident.

[999Guy]

From 2015-2019 seasons Curry led the league every year in raw plus-minus. He set the all-time record for it in the 2017 season the same season he set the playoffs record for it. He set the 402 threes mark in 2016. Threes in consecutive games. Threes in a playoffs run. Threes in the playoffs period. Threes in a finals game. Highest average points per game in a playoffs sweep. Points scored in overtime. Career free throw percentage. Eliminated 2 closest MVPs in time (other than himself) in the same series. Faced and eliminated all the All-NBA First Team (other than himself) of the same year in consecutive series. Led a team to the best regular season record. Led a team to the best playoffs record. Led a team to three consecutive 67-win or more seasons.

Did someone else do any of that?

These are not things anyone has had a chance to do. Some guys have careers pre-3P line, and pre-plus minus data.

And some of these aren’t indicative of much. And are really arbitrary. You’re not following a set criteria it seems. You’re just listing accolades. 3P shooting, team win totals, raw plus minus, sweep PPG, career FT%. All-NBA opponents, recent MVP opponents.

Where does defense come in?

Highest ppg in a playoff sweep. :lol

Btw off the top of my head some of this is wrong. Draymond had by far the highest plus minus and on/off in league history in 2015-16’s regular season. He was their leader and probably their best player if you include the playoffs. He would’ve rightfully won FMVP even with the suspension had anyone helped him. Swept Houston without Curry, dominated Portland without him.

Also Jordan had the highest PPG in several sweeps. 45 PPG against Miami.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1992-nba-eastern-conference-first-round-heat-vs-bulls.html

Draymond has the highest GS playoff plus minus since 2015. Does that matter?

[Monta Ellis MVP]

These are not things anyone has had a chance to do. Some guys have careers pre-3P line, and pre-plus minus data.

And some of these aren’t indicative of much. And are really arbitrary. You’re not following a set criteria it seems. You’re just listing accolades. 3P shooting, team win totals, raw plus minus, sweep PPG, career FT%. All-NBA opponents, recent MVP opponents.

Where does defense come in?

Highest ppg in a playoff sweep. :lol

Btw off the top of my head some of this is wrong. Draymond had by far the highest plus minus and on/off in league history in 2015-16’s regular season. He was their leader and probably their best player if you include the playoffs. He would’ve rightfully won FMVP even with the suspension had anyone helped him. Swept Houston without Curry, dominated Portland without him.

Also Jordan had the highest PPG in several sweeps. 45 PPG against Miami.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1992-nba-eastern-conference-first-round-heat-vs-bulls.html

Draymond has the highest GS playoff plus minus since 2015. Does that matter?

I think Draymond had higher plus and minus because he played more minutes.

[Turbo Slayer]

The first time they met in a playoffs series Harden had finals veterans and former champions on his team like Howard, Terry, and Ariza while Curry led a cast that didn't have anyone who'd made a previous conference finals. Again, you assume that players stay the same for the rest of their careers. They don't.

I'm not including All-NBA selections and All-Defensive selections before 2015 or after 2015 because there's too many variables involved like development, injuries, change of status, decline, prime, and age involved. I'm only going to focus on 2015 because it's specific and easy.

All-NBA and All-Defensive selections in 2015 for both teams.

Golden State Warriors (2015)

Curry (1st All-NBA) and (MVP)

Klay (3rd All-NBA)

Bogut (2nd All-Defensive)

Green (1st All-Defensive)

----------------------------------------

Houston Rockets (2015)

Harden (1st All-NBA)

That's it for 2014-15 in their playoff series.

The Golden State Warriors had a top 5 player in general (also MVP), a top 15 player in general, a top 10 player on defense AND a top 5 player on defense while....

the Houston Rockets only had a top 5 player in general.
in their playoff series in 2015
Conclusion: When you take a look from a talent perspective IN 2015 (not before or after) GSW had more talent than HOU in 2015.

Notes: Dwight Howard was never considered a top 15 player or a top 15 player on the defense side in 2015. It also exposes the fact that players don't stay the same for the rest of his careers. Like I said stated earlier, Dwight Howard in 2015 is not the same as Dwight Howard in 2010.

[Uncle Drew]

Again, you assume that players stay the same for the rest of their careers. They don't.

I'm not including All-NBA selections and All-Defensive selections before 2015 or after 2015 because there's too many variables involved like development, injuries, change of status, decline, prime, and age involved. I'm only going to focus on 2015 because it's specific.

All-NBA and All-Defensive selections in 2015 for both teams.

Golden State Warriors (2015)

Curry (1st All-NBA)

Klay (3rd All-NBA)

Bogut (2nd All-Defensive)

Green (1st All-Defensive)

----------------------------------------

Houston Rockets (2015)

Harden (1st All-NBA)

That's it for 2014-15 in their playoff series.

The Golden State Warriors had a top 5 player in general, a top 15 player in general, a top 10 player on defense AND a top 5 player on defense while....

the Houston Rockets only had a top 5 player in general.

Conclusion: When you take a look from a talent perspective IN 2015 (not before or after) GSW had more talent than HOU in 2015.

Notes: Dwight Howard was never considered a top 15 player or a top 15 player on the defense side in 2015. It also exposes the fact that players don't stay the same for the rest of his careers. Like I said stated earlier, Dwight Howard in 2010 is not the same as Dwight Howard in 2015.

Have your balls dropped yet?

[StrongLurk]

I'm loving how posters who hate on Curry can only name like 6-7 players with better 5 year stretches since the modern era started. Amazing how they can try to downplay Curry and dismiss him, yet the only people who they mention as better are all people in the top 10 all time. People wanna act like Curry isn't even top 50 all time.

All I'm gonna say is Curry is just as good a finals performer as Kobe was or maybe even better, but people don't want to accept that.

Curry is solidified at this point in the top 20-25 range all time and could easily climb higher with more prime years under his belt.

[Uncle Drew]

I'm loving how posters who hate on Curry can only name like 6-7 players with better 5 year stretches since the modern era started. Amazing how they can try to downplay Curry and dismiss him, yet the only people who they mention as better are all people in the top 10 all time. People wanna act like Curry isn't even top 50 all time.

All I'm gonna say is Curry is just as good a finals performer as Kobe was or maybe even better, but people don't want to accept that.

Curry is solidified at this point in the top 20-25 range all time and could easily climb higher with more prime years under his belt.

Could you inform me as to why this guy you are defending has the same amount of Finals MVPs as me?

[SouBeachTalents]

I'm loving how posters who hate on Curry can only name like 6-7 players with better 5 year stretches since the modern era started. Amazing how they can try to downplay Curry and dismiss him, yet the only people who they mention as better are all people in the top 10 all time. People wanna act like Curry isn't even top 50 all time.

All I'm gonna say is Curry is just as good a finals performer as Kobe was or maybe even better, but people don't want to accept that.

Curry is solidified at this point in the top 20-25 range all time and could easily climb higher with more prime years under his belt.
That ain't much of a bar to reach

[Turbo Slayer]

I'm loving how posters who hate on Curry can only name like 6-7 players with better 5 year stretches since the modern era started. Amazing how they can try to downplay Curry and dismiss him, yet the only people who they mention as better are all people in the top 10 all time. People wanna act like Curry isn't even top 50 all time.

All I'm gonna say is Curry is just as good a finals performer as Kobe was or maybe even better, but people don't want to accept that.

Curry is solidified at this point in the top 20-25 range all time and could easily climb higher with more prime years under his belt. I'm not hating on Curry. He deserves to be mentioned as one of the greatest players of all time. Greatest shooter EVER. and is well deserving to be in top 25, top 15 somwhere around those ranges.

People overrate Curry to the point where he is the best of all time like Stephonit is doing right now.

[Stephonit]

These are not things anyone has had a chance to do. Some guys have careers pre-3P line, and pre-plus minus data.

And some of these aren’t indicative of much. And are really arbitrary. You’re not following a set criteria it seems. You’re just listing accolades. 3P shooting, team win totals, raw plus minus, sweep PPG, career FT%. All-NBA opponents, recent MVP opponents.

Where does defense come in?

Well what is your criteria? I wasn't listing the usual accolades people are wont to do because they are more like markers and not the actual thing that is done so I don't know why you mention that.

As for the value of defense that could be a philosophical question. Is the jack-of-all trades superior than the specialist? If the point is to win and the specialist does that the most then are we going to devalue the specialist out of some need to reward all-arounders even if in the end they didn't win as much?





Highest ppg in a playoff sweep. :lol

Btw off the top of my head some of this is wrong. Draymond had by far the highest plus minus and on/off in league history in 2015-16’s regular season. He was their leader and probably their best player if you include the playoffs. He would’ve rightfully won FMVP even with the suspension had anyone helped him. Swept Houston without Curry, dominated Portland without him.

Also Jordan had the highest PPG in several sweeps. 45 PPG against Miami.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1992-nba-eastern-conference-first-round-heat-vs-bulls.html

Draymond has the highest GS playoff plus minus since 2015. Does that matter?

Your corrections are noted.

Highest average PPG in a 4-game sweep.

Confused Draymond's 2016 and Curry's 2017. Thought they were for the same year. Draymond was the highest for 2016 while Curry was second that year. Curry's regular and post 2017 is the highest though.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus_minus_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&output=total&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&age_min=0&age_max=99&order_by=diff_pts

[Turbo Slayer]

Well what is your criteria? I wasn't listing the usual accolades people are wont to do because they are more like markers and not the actual thing that is done so I don't know why you mention that.

As for the value of defense that could be a philosophical question. Is the jack-of-all trades superior than the specialist? If the point is to win and the specialist does that the most then are we going to devalue the specialist out of some need to reward all-arounders even if in the end they didn't win as much?




Your corrections are noted.

Highest average PPG in a 4-game sweep.

Confused Draymond's 2016 and Curry's 2017. Thought they were for the same year. Draymond was the highest for 2016 while Curry was second that year. Curry's regular and post 2017 is the highest though.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus_minus_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&output=total&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&age_min=0&age_max=99&order_by=diff_pts So Jeff Teague is better than James Harden in 2014-15. Cool.

Link: https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus_minus_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&output=total&is_playoffs=N&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&year_min=2015&year_max=2015&age_min=0&age_max=99&order_by=diff_pts

It also exposes the fact that if an average or bad player plays for a great team their raw +/- are going to be skewed as hell. Seriously, no one is taking Teague over James Harden in 2015.

[Stephonit]

Again, you assume that players stay the same for the rest of their careers. They don't.

I'm not including All-NBA selections and All-Defensive selections before 2015 or after 2015 because there's too many variables involved like development, injuries, change of status, decline, prime, and age involved. I'm only going to focus on 2015 because it's specific and easy.

All-NBA and All-Defensive selections in 2015 for both teams.

Golden State Warriors (2015)

Curry (1st All-NBA) and (MVP)

Klay (3rd All-NBA)

Bogut (2nd All-Defensive)

Green (1st All-Defensive)



Problem with your analysis is that their play that year cannot easily be separated from playing with Curry.

Harden's teammates had proven success independent of Harden.

[Turbo Slayer]

Problem with your analysis is that their play that year cannot easily be separated from playing with Curry.

Harden's teammates had proven success independent of Harden.
Problem with your analysis is that their play that year cannot easily be separated from playing with Curry. We never got to see Klay and Dray play on their own teams as the man so it's pure guessing by you.


Harden's teammates had proven success independent of Harden. You mean Howard? Lol. Well Howard missed 41 games in the 2015 NBA season and wasn't the same 5 years back. Also after Howard left the Rockets in 2016 he spent most of his time playing 3rd option with CHO and ATL (lottery teams). He was a bench player in WAS after that. Not exactly success.

---------------------------------------------------

Without Harden the team's offensive rating went down to basically bottom of the league offense and the Net Rating becomes more bad compared to when Curry is off the court.

http://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612745&Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Regular%2BSeason&PlayerIds=201935&OnlyCommonGames=true

Curry's- http://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612744&Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Regular%2BSeason&PlayerIds=201939&OnlyCommonGames=true


I don't know where you getting and you clearly are reaching for any reliable shred of evidence which is none.

[Stephonit]

We never got to see Klay and Dray play on their own teams as the man so it's pure guessing by you.

You mean Howard? Lol. Well Howard missed 41 games in the 2015 NBA season and wasn't the same 5 years back. Also after Howard left the Rockets in 2016 he spent most of his time playing 3rd option with CHO and ATL (lottery teams). He was a bench player in WAS after that. Not exactly success.

---------------------------------------------------

Without Harden the team's offensive rating went down to basically bottom of the league offense and the Net Rating becomes more bad compared to when Curry is off the court.

http://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612745&Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Regular%2BSeason&PlayerIds=201935&OnlyCommonGames=true

Curry's- http://www.pbpstats.com/wowy-combos/nba?TeamId=1610612744&Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Regular%2BSeason&PlayerIds=201939&OnlyCommonGames=true


I don't know where you getting and you clearly are reaching for any reliable shred of evidence which is none.

Uh, I think you should look at those numbers again and learn to interpret them.

From what I can see the difference between Harden on and off is around 8 for the Rockets. The difference between Curry on and off is around 18. Curry had a much more significant effect on his team.

[Turbo Slayer]

Uh, I think you should look at those numbers again and learn to interpret them.

From what I can see the difference between Harden on and off is around 8 for the Rockets. The difference between Curry on and off is around 18. Curry had a much more significant effect on his team. Honest mistake. Good job correcting mine. :cheers:

Lol at your post (#59). Stop it with your mental gymnastics. You made no effort addressing the lopsided talent Curry had in 2015 against the Rockets. Either put up or shut the **** up.

[Stephonit]

The second mvp to durant was fine also. Im not sure what you were seeing. Kd was as good or better in literally almost everything. Kd had more points while being alot more efficient. He also had more rebounds while almost having equal assists. Steph had less than 1 assists more a game. On the defensive end of the ball its not close kd was much better.

As I inferred previously that is missing the forest for the trees. KD's consistency is great but so is Curry's explosiveness. KD can generate consistent numbers but they do not deliver a knockout blow. Curry can blow away an opponent and give a decisive result. The former was recognized the previous year. It was time for the latter to be recognized. The narrative of the Iguodala award demanded it as did the events of that year and events since. That it wasn't makes a joke of the narratives used to justify the earlier awards. It makes a joke of the awards period.

[Turbo Slayer]

As I inferred previously that is missing the forest for the trees. KD's consistency is great but so is Curry's explosiveness. KD can generate consistent numbers but they do not deliver a knockout blow. Curry can blow away an opponent and give a decisive result. The former was recognized the previous year. It was time for the latter to be recognized. The narrative of the Iguodala award demanded it as did the events of that year and events since. That it wasn't makes a joke of the narratives used to justify the earlier awards. It makes a joke of the awards period. Curry should have won the Finals MVP in 2015. Iggy's defense was great but it wasn't superior to Curry's scoring and playmaking.

Past historical precedents state that whoever scores the most and was on the winning team in the Finals as the 1st option are given the Finals MVP yet Curry wasn't given one. It was only given to Iggy because of "Strength in Numbers" narrative or whatever that bullshit was. Curry deserved the Finals MVP for that year.

People who clown on Curry for having no Finals MVP are stupid. There are many great players that didn't win Finals MVP and Curry is given the most heat because of his status and controversy? Lol.

[Axe]

What do you think curry has ever done for his team without the tutelage of former shooter steve kerr?

[ThatCoolKid]

Curry should have won the Finals MVP in 2015. Iggy's defense was great but it wasn't superior to Curry's scoring and playmaking.

Past historical precedents state that whoever scores the most and win the Finals as the 1st option are given the Finals MVP yet Curry wasn't given one. It was only given to Iggy because of "Strength in Numbers" narrative or whatever that bullshit was. Curry deserved the Finals MVP for that year.

It was given to Iggy because he guarded Lebron and Lebron was clearly the most important player in that series but the media was too chicken to give it to a player on the losing team. So they compromised by giving Iggy FMVP which makes even less sense than giving it to Curry.

[ThatCoolKid]

What do you think curry has ever done for his team without the tutelage of former shooter steve kerr?

Most of Curry's superstar 2015-2016 season was under Luke Walton - who has gone on to show his coaching prowess leading the cellar dweller Sacramento Kings :lol

[Stephonit]

Curry should have won the Finals MVP in 2015. Iggy's defense was great but it wasn't superior to Curry's scoring and playmaking.

Past historical precedents state that whoever scores the most and win the Finals as the 1st option are given the Finals MVP yet Curry wasn't given one. It was only given to Iggy because of "Strength in Numbers" narrative or whatever that bullshit was. Curry deserved the Finals MVP for that year.

People who crown Curry for having no Finals MVP are stupid. There are many great players that didn't win Finals MVP and Curry is given the most heat? Lol.

That's one way to look at it but all of that can be gleaned from the box score. What's the point for having an award then? The only logical reason is to provide added context. That's why a narrative award is justifiable if it tells true narratives. In giving the award to Iguodala it highlighted the defense of the team and its egalitarian nature. That was the narrative and it gives added info to anyone looking at it from the future. The second KD FMVP does the opposite. It tells a false story of the offense and the roles of the various players. It's worse than not having the award. Presumably the voters are journalists because it is their job to know what the essential truth of a story is. Who scored the most has nothing to do with the real story when it came to the Warriors and it is trash journalism to not have recognized that.

[Axe]

Most of Curry's superstar 2015-2016 season was under Luke Walton - who has gone on to show his coaching prowess leading the cellar dweller Sacramento Kings :lol
So? Who was the head coach responsible for spearheading their dynasty to multiple championships?

Some guy not named walton, that's for sure.

[Turbo Slayer]

That's one way to look at it but all of that can be gleaned from the box score. What's the point for having an award then? The only logical reason is to provide added context. That's why a narrative award is justifiable if it tells true narratives. In giving the award to Iguodala it highlighted the defense of the team and its egalitarian nature. That was the narrative and it gives added info to anyone looking at it from the future. The second KD FMVP does the opposite. It tells a false story of the offense and the roles of the various players. It's worse than not having the award. Presumably the voters are journalists because it is their job to know what the essential truth of a story is. Who scored the most has nothing to do with the real story when it came to the Warriors and it is trash journalism to not have recognized that. The historical precedent is mostly true. Let's take a look at the last 20 Finals.

Last 20 Finals

2019: check
2018: check
2017: check
2016: check
2015: Anomaly
2014: check; a wash
2013: check
2012: check
2011: check
2010: check
2009: check
2008: check
2007: check
2006: check
2005: check
2004: check; a wash
2003: check
2002: check
2001: check
2000: check

---------------------------
Curry is the only player that did not get awarded for being statistically the best player on the winning team and outscoring his 2nd option (Iggy). Which is frankly bullshit to me.

Notes: Some Finals are a bit close like 2004 Finals but still the majority of the time it is still true.

[Turbo Slayer]

It was given to Iggy because he guarded Lebron and Lebron was clearly the most important player in that series but the media was too chicken to give it to a player on the losing team. So they compromised by giving Iggy FMVP which makes even less sense than giving it to Curry. You are only saying that because it's LeBron. If any other player was on the losing team specifically in that Finals you wouldn't even batted a eye. Let that sink in.

[Bronbron23]

The historical precedent is mostly true. Let's take a look at the last 20 Finals.

Last 20 Finals

2019: check
2018: check
2017: check
2016: check
2015: Anomaly
2014: check
2013: check
2012: check
2011: check
2010: check
2009: check
2008: check
2007: check
2006: check
2005: check
2004: check
2003: check
2002: check
2001: check
2000: check

---------------------------
Curry is the only player that did not get awarded for being statistically the best player on the winning team and outscoring his 2nd option (Iggy). Which is frankly bullshit to me.

Notes: Some Finals are a bit close like 2004 Finals but still the majority of the time it is still true.

Right but how many of those were one of the worst defenders in the league? With the exception of dirk pretty much every fmvp was a good to great defender

[Stephonit]

Right but how many of those were one of the worst defenders in the league? With the exception of dirk pretty much every fmvp was a good to great defender

This shows a bias that infects the award. It presumes a good player should look a certain way or should have certain qualities. It's one more reason to just leave everything to the results no commentary needed. The win tells you all you need to know.

[Monta Ellis MVP]

This shows a bias that infects the award. It presumes a good player should look a certain way or should have certain qualities. It's one more reason to just leave everything to the results no commentary needed. The win tells you all you need to know.

I think more players could have replaced Andre Iguodala than replace Steph Curry and still win.

[Bronbron23]

This shows a bias that infects the award. It presumes a good player should look a certain way or should have certain qualities. It's one more reason to just leave everything to the results no commentary needed. The win tells you all you need to know.

what? Defense is important and it should absolutely play a role in deciding whos the fmvp. In the regular season theres mvp and dpoy so you can somewhat take the Defense out of the equation when deciding on a mvp. There is no dpoy for the finals so Defense should play a huge role. In almost every other fmvp they were great defenders. Steph on the other hand is a huge liability on that end which im sure played a role in him not winning any.

You may not think Defense is important but unfortunately for you qnd steph most experts eo

[Stephonit]

what? Defense is important and it should absolutely play a role in deciding whos the fmvp. In the regular season theres mvp and dpoy so you can somewhat take the Defense out of the equation when deciding on a mvp. There is no dpoy for the finals so Defense should play a huge role. In almost every other fmvp they were great defenders. Steph on the other hand is a huge liability on that end which im sure played a role in him not winning any.

You may not think Defense is important but unfortunately for you qnd steph most experts eo

Most "experts" didn't think a jump shooting team could win. That's the thing with truly revolutionary figures. Experts have difficulty processing them. What have we seen consistently since? Pundits denying denying denying at every turn what Curry has done and what he is capable of. Westbrook is better! Harden is better! Durant is better! LeBron is better! No they aren't. Those saying such things don't have a full idea of how Curry works and how he achieves what he does. The move to plus-minus indicators is an example of what Curry has forced. Traditional box score does not fully capture what he does. Therefore something new needed to be created. Thus we have all these new plus-minus indicators and efficiency metrics. If Curry didn't cause them to be developed he pushed them along. Because to even begin to understand what he does they're needed.

[Monta Ellis MVP]

Most "experts" didn't think a jump shooting team could win. That's the thing with truly revolutionary figures. Experts have difficulty processing them. What have we seen consistently since? Pundits denying denying denying at every turn what Curry has done and what he is capable of. Westbrook is better! Harden is better! Durant is better! LeBron is better! No they aren't. Those saying such things don't have a full idea of how Curry works and how he achieves what he does. The move to plus-minus indicators is an example of what Curry has forced. Traditional box score does not fully capture what he does. Therefore something new needed to be created. Thus we have all these new plus-minus indicators and efficiency metrics. If Curry didn't cause them to be developed he pushed them along. Because to even begin to understand what he does they're needed.

Hindsight is 20/20. We know now.

[Bronbron23]

Most "experts" didn't think a jump shooting team could win. That's the thing with truly revolutionary figures. Experts have difficulty processing them. What have we seen consistently since? Pundits denying denying denying at every turn what Curry has done and what he is capable of. Westbrook is better! Harden is better! Durant is better! LeBron is better! No they aren't. Those saying such things don't have a full idea of how Curry works and how he achieves what he does. The move to plus-minus indicators is an example of what Curry has forced. Traditional box score does not fully capture what he does. Therefore something new needed to be created. Thus we have all these new plus-minus indicators and efficiency metrics. If Curry didn't cause them to be developed he pushed them along. Because to even begin to understand what he does they're needed.

First off he isnt better than kd and lebron. Theres absolutely nothing to prove otherwise especially your faulty plus minus argument. How has steph done without klay? Not very good he isnt even above .500 without klay. On the otherhan klay has a winning record without steph including a playoff stint where the warriors were cruising through the first 2 rounds without steph. Steph is nice and easily a top 20 all time. Your nuts if you think hes better than bron or kd though

[Axe]

First off he isnt better than kd and lebron. Theres absolutely nothing to prove otherwise especially your faulty plus minus argument. How has steph done without klay? Not very good he isnt even above .500 without klay. On the otherhan klay has a winning record without steph including a playoff stint where the warriors were cruising through the first 2 rounds without steph. Steph is nice and easily a top 20 all time. Your nuts if you think hes better than bron or kd though
This 💪

[Stephonit]

First off he isnt better than kd and lebron. Theres absolutely nothing to prove otherwise especially your faulty plus minus argument. How has steph done without klay? Not very good he isnt even above .500 without klay. On the otherhan klay has a winning record without steph including a playoff stint where the warriors were cruising through the first 2 rounds without steph. Steph is nice and easily a top 20 all time. Your nuts if you think hes better than bron or kd though

Curry led his team to 73-wins. In all of NBA history how many times has that occurred? Alongside that year he led his team to two other 67-win seasons. Who else in NBA history has done that? What in LeBron's or Durant's records should make me think they are capable of that?

Curry leads plus-minus since it has been recorded. It's the basis of a whole branch of indicators that have been developed in part as a response to his success. Why should I think LeBron or Durant are better?

Curry changed the game by making threes a de rigeur part of offenses and similarly for switching defenses to counter such offenses. What did LeBron or Durant do to force the league to change the game so much?

Curry is the most efficient 20+ppg high volume scorer in history. Curry's best statistical season is better than LeBron's or Durant's.

Curry is on a higher level than both. Unsurprisingly he has a winning record against both in playoffs series.

What exactly is the notion that LeBron or Durant are better based on?

[Axe]

Both lbj and kd have not one but at least two fmvps over your precious playah.

[Stephonit]

Both lbj and kd have not one but at least two fmvps over your precious playah.

Given by the same idiots who preside over shows going Westbrook is better! and I'd prefer to have Harden. Nothing more than popularity contests or media spindoctoring. Records though are an entirely different matter.

[Axe]

Given by the same idiots who preside over shows going Westbrook is better! and I'd prefer to have Harden. Nothing more than popularity contests or media spindoctoring. Records though are an entirely different matter.
You are just plain clueless, my friend.

Having fmvps would say a lot, ya know.

[Rico2016]

Call me crazy but I think you need at least one Finals MVP in five years to be part of that consideration.

#BetterLuckNextTime

[Stephonit]

You are just plain clueless, my friend.

Having fmvps would say a lot, ya know.

No FMVPs don't say anything. In fact they say less than nothing.

Next time you want to bet on something and you are going by either all-time record or FMVP, choose FMVP and see what it gets you.

[Rico2016]

No FMVPs don't say anything. In fact they say less than nothing.

Next time you want to bet on something and you are going by either all-time record or FMVP, choose FMVP and see what it gets you.

You're right, Finals MVP only accounts for 4 to 7 games at most. Let's look at PLAYOFF MVP:

https://i.postimg.cc/dV1sCFsj/playoff-mvp-by-year.png

Curry has 1 in his career, 2015

[Stephonit]

You're right, Finals MVP only accounts for 4 to 7 games at most. Let's look at PLAYOFF MVP:

https://i.postimg.cc/dV1sCFsj/playoff-mvp-by-year.png

Curry has 1 in his career, 2015

Maybe if NBA basketball was one-on-one you might have a point. But it's five-on-five. That lesser player plays in the East and monopolizes the ball too much to be in the truly top echelon of team players. As we've seen with his team hopping it's not for lack of trying on his part.

[Axe]

No FMVPs don't say anything. In fact they say less than nothing.

Next time you want to bet on something and you are going by either all-time record or FMVP, choose FMVP and see what it gets you.
Well, curry can't even carry his team on his own alone.

This was purely evidenced in the finals last year.

[SwayDizzle]

There was no finals Steph was in where I felt he was the man

[Stanley Kobrick]

we can't even name a single iconic stephen curry playoff moment from the past 5 years. even dame lillard has a couple

[Rico2016]

we can't even name a single iconic stephen curry playoff moment from the past 5 years. even dame lillard has a couple

50 pages deep now

[Axe]

we can't even name a single iconic stephen curry playoff moment from the past 5 years. even dame lillard has a couple
What. A. Shame. Lol

And to think there are other 'insignificant players' who had more iconic playoff moments than him.

[Stephonit]

There was no finals Steph was in where I felt he was the man


we can't even name a single iconic stephen curry playoff moment from the past 5 years. even dame lillard has a couple


And to think there are other 'insignificant players' who had more iconic playoff moments than him.

The poor deluded souls who buy the claims of media punditry that sell them inferior goods upon which to build their hopes that are quickly dashed. It seems there are still those out there that think Lillard could substitute for Curry. That Westbrook or Harden could substitute for Curry. "Put them on the Warriors and they'd win those championships too" they cry. They put Durant on those Warriors. Without Curry they slogged on to barely win above 50%—but there are people who still believe any other star in Curry's place could do just as well despite all of NBA history arguing otherwise.

As I said elsewhere lesser stars need "iconic moments" to be built up for the media to sell them. Curry has so many of them the media actually plays them down and does not call them as such because they would overshadow the rest of their offerings. Lemmings reliant on media for everything don't know what to think. That's a simple test then to use if you want to know if you are a lemming. If you think Curry has no iconic moments then that's what you are, a lemming.

Lillard put up a shot that sent Paul George and Westbrook packing. He has an iconic moment! He has an iconic moment! Are we supposed to get our hopes up that showed he'd be victorious against Curry and the Warriors? What happened in reality? The Blazers got swept—again. Where was the hoopla to match the tales of LeBronto? Nowhere because anyone with any sense knew the real score.

[Manny98]

LeBron 09-13

LeBron 14-18

[Stephonit]

LeBron 14-18

Lost in the finals 1-4. Lost in the finals 2-4. Won in 7. Lost in the finals 1-4. Lost in the finals 0-4. Didn't even do anything impressive in the regular season. I just don't see it.

[Manny98]

Lost in the finals 1-4. Lost in the finals 2-4. Won in 7. Lost in the finals 1-4. Lost in the finals 0-4. Didn't even do anything impressive in the regular season. I just don't see it.
He got to the finals every year and would have won 4/5 if not for injuries and KD joining the Warriors

[Stephonit]

He got to the finals every year and would have won 4/5 if not for injuries and KD joining the Warriors

Curry got to the finals every year through the West, and if we're going to engage in hypotheticals, if not for injuries would have gone 5/5.

[Axe]

In the last decade, curry and the dubs only defeated the cavs in the finals.

No other teams aside from that.

[Stephonit]

In the last decade, curry and the dubs only defeated the cavs in the finals.

No other teams aside from that.

You forgot all the teams they played in the regular season and in the Western Conference playoffs to get to the finals.

[RogueBorg]

Curry got to the finals every year through the West, and if we're going to engage in hypotheticals, if not for injuries would have gone 5/5.

The West was a much tougher road, injuries and suspensions included, have to agree with you here.

[ImKobe]

LeBron 09-13

LeBron 14-18

2 rings, 3 Finals from 09-13
1 ring, 5 Finals from 14-18

not better

[aj1987]

2 rings, 3 Finals from 09-13
1 ring, 5 Finals from 14-18

not better

7 years since you made this account and you're still stupid AF.

4 MVP's
2 Rings
2 FMVP's
5x All-NBA First
5x All-Def First

vs

3 Rings
2 MVP's
3x All-NBA First, 1x Second, 1x 3rd

[Stephonit]

7 years since you made this account and you're still stupid AF.

4 MVP's
2 Rings
2 FMVP's
5x All-NBA First
5x All-Def First

vs

3 Rings
2 MVP's
3x All-NBA First, 1x Second, 1x 3rd


A wonderful example why media awards mean diddly squat. Someone would really take those years 2009-2013 over 2015-2019? Losing to Dwight for no discernible reason? Being called a quitter by the owner of the team you lead the next year? Then promising "not one, not two, not three..." after forming a superteam and losing to Dirk who Wade had beaten on his own a previous time? That has to be one of the most disappointing 5-year periods relative to the number of accolades received.

[SouBeachTalents]

2 rings, 3 Finals from 09-13
1 ring, 5 Finals from 14-18

not better
So then 60's Russell is the GOAT 5 year period

[Manny98]

2 rings, 3 Finals from 09-13
1 ring, 5 Finals from 14-18

not better
Rings aren't the be all end all bruh

[Axe]

The poor deluded souls who buy the claims of media punditry that sell them inferior goods upon which to build their hopes that are quickly dashed. It seems there are still those out there that think Lillard could substitute for Curry. That Westbrook or Harden could substitute for Curry. "Put them on the Warriors and they'd win those championships too" they cry. They put Durant on those Warriors. Without Curry they slogged on to barely win above 50%—but there are people who still believe any other star in Curry's place could do just as well despite all of NBA history arguing otherwise.

As I said elsewhere lesser stars need "iconic moments" to be built up for the media to sell them. Curry has so many of them the media actually plays them down and does not call them as such because they would overshadow the rest of their offerings. Lemmings reliant on media for everything don't know what to think. That's a simple test then to use if you want to know if you are a lemming. If you think Curry has no iconic moments then that's what you are, a lemming.

Lillard put up a shot that sent Paul George and Westbrook packing. He has an iconic moment! He has an iconic moment! Are we supposed to get our hopes up that showed he'd be victorious against Curry and the Warriors? What happened in reality? The Blazers got swept—again. Where was the hoopla to match the tales of LeBronto? Nowhere because anyone with any sense knew the real score.
Meltdown. :roll:

[Stephonit]

Meltdown. :roll:

I'm sorry the words were too big for you to comprehend.

But to the matter at hand: 5 straight years from whom were better?

[999Guy]

Well what is your criteria? I wasn't listing the usual accolades people are wont to do because they are more like markers and not the actual thing that is done so I don't know why you mention that.

As for the value of defense that could be a philosophical question. Is the jack-of-all trades superior than the specialist? If the point is to win and the specialist does that the most then are we going to devalue the specialist out of some need to reward all-arounders even if in the end they didn't win as much?




Your corrections are noted.

Highest average PPG in a 4-game sweep.

Confused Draymond's 2016 and Curry's 2017. Thought they were for the same year. Draymond was the highest for 2016 while Curry was second that year. Curry's regular and post 2017 is the highest though.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus_minus_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&output=total&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&age_min=0&age_max=99&order_by=diff_pts

LeBron scored 36 PPG over Toronto in 2017.

So breaking it down, what makes Curry’s 5-year stretch comparatively better(because that’s what I meant when I asked exclusively, you basically said Curry’s name is exclusive to himself save for team win totals, and that’s...team win totals.), is 3P volume shooting, defeating the 2014 MVP’s future team in 2016, defeating the 2017 MVP’s previous team in 2016, and being on a team that won 67 games or more 3 straight years while having a high FT% in a postseason of one of those years.

You want to know what player had a better 5 year stretch but you aren’t even clearly defining what good is. What you mentioned has little relation to each other.

If Durant was injured in 2016, does that make Curry’s 5 year stretch worse? How is defeating him in 2016 a significant part of his case for goat but having him on the team the 3 yrs after isn’t mentioned among team accomplishments like win totals?

[Axe]

I'm sorry the words were too big for you to comprehend.

But to the matter at hand: 5 straight years from whom were better?
Well, tell us then, ayesha.

What did your lover accomplish for his team before the overrated steve kerr started to become their mastermind six years ago?

[Stephonit]

LeBron scored 36 PPG over Toronto in 2017.

And? Is that higher than what Curry averaged in his sweep? No.




So breaking it down, what makes CurryÂ’s 5-year stretch comparatively better(because thatÂ’s what I meant when I asked exclusively, you basically said CurryÂ’s name is exclusive to himself save for team win totals, and thatÂ’s...team win totals.), is 3P volume shooting, defeating the 2014 MVPÂ’s future team in 2016, defeating the 2017 MVPÂ’s previous team in 2016, and being on a team that won 67 games or more 3 straight years while having a high FT% in a postseason of one of those years.

You want to know what player had a better 5 year stretch but you arenÂ’t even clearly defining what good is. What you mentioned has little relation to each other.

If Durant was injured in 2016, does that make CurryÂ’s 5 year stretch worse? How is defeating him in 2016 a significant part of his case for goat but having him on the team the 3 yrs after isnÂ’t mentioned among team accomplishments like win totals?

To be blunt I don't understand what your point is. But I will explain my rationale for mentioning what I did. I described certain feats and records in my list of Curry accomplishments in that 5-year span. Why feats and records? Because they are unique. Every year someone wins games, wins championships, wins accolades. But records are rarer. They are outliers and outliers deserve special scrutiny and attention because that's where you are more likely to find the very best. In certain disciplines like in track and field it is the record that defines best even more than championships won. When you have all of NBA history to look at but a feat everyone is going for is then surpassed? That is very notable. That wins record is a big deal. That Curry has a claim to more than just that in the wins department should be eye-opening.

[ELITEpower23]

The funny part is LeBron has probably done more in single year than Curry has for any 5 year stretch. 2009, 2012, 2013, 2016, 2017, 2018

Take any single year and it beats out Curry. Curry lacks advanced stats and a FMVP. Thats what hurts him most of all.

[Stephonit]

The funny part is LeBron has probably done more in single year than Curry has for any 5 year stretch. 2009, 2012, 2013, 2016, 2017, 2018

Take any single year and it beats out Curry. Curry lacks advanced stats and a FMVP. Thats what hurts him most of all.

This is one of the dumber takes out there considering Curry has what is possibly the greatest statistical season of all-time. Maybe if LeBron could go 50-45-90 on his volume he could win outright quicker, sit out 4th quarters, and not have to pile up meaningless stats.

[ELITEpower23]

This is one of the dumber takes out there considering Curry has what is possibly the greatest statistical season of all-time. Maybe if LeBron could go 50-45-90 on his volume he could win outright quicker, sit out 4th quarters, and not have to pile up meaningless stats.

Is leading a team to a ring (Finals MVP) also meaningless? Why are Curry's 4 rebounds and 4 assists enough to win? Does he have any teammates that tremendously help him out with these aspects of basketball?

[tpols]

2016 Chef was peak basketball.

He wasn't even a player that year... he became the game itself.

A basketball god.

[ELITEpower23]

2016 Chef was peak basketball.

He wasn't even a player that year... he became the game itself.

A basketball god.

Damn, did he get the FMVP that year too?

[Turbo Slayer]

2016 Chef was peak basketball.

He wasn't even a player that year... he became the game itself.

A basketball god. One thing that I can say about is that he transformed the game for PGs (And the game in general regarding 3 point shooting). Originally back in the day PGs were designed to be pass first. You had Stockton, et cetera. Nowadays PGs are needed because of scoring (primarily) and passing (second). Curry refined the game and scoring and combo guards became a normal thing now.

Teams started to regularly take threes on a more consistent basis because it 1) it improved spacing and 2) Analytics say that threes are 50% more valuable than twos.

He deserves enormous credit for that.

[Turbo Slayer]

Damn, did he get the FMVP that year too? FMVPs aren't as extremely important as you think. There's levels to this.

Here's a question. Would you rather have Garnett's career or Billup's/Parker's career? Assume that they are on a championship contender team.

Simple question. Finals MVP are very important for legacy building-wise but you can't just resort to Finals MVPs. You have to resort to different stuff like the quality of the player, floor-raising, ceiling raising, etc.. You can't just rely on Finals MVP to be your only indicator of player success.

[Stephonit]

Is leading a team to a ring (Finals MVP) also meaningless? Why are Curry's 4 rebounds and 4 assists enough to win? Does he have any teammates that tremendously help him out with these aspects of basketball?

Did any of Curry's teammates win a ring without him? You can believe 11 network employees or you can believe the stark record of before and after and unprecedented historical achievement.

[ELITEpower23]

FMVPs aren't as extremely important as you think. There's levels to this.

Here's a question. Would you rather have Garnett's career or Billup's/Parker's career? Assume that they are on a championship contender team.

Simple question. Finals MVP are very important for legacy building-wise but you can't just resort to Finals MVPs. You have to resort to different stuff like the quality of the player, floor-raising, ceiling raising, etc.. You can't just rely on Finals MVP to be your only indicator of player success.

Your take is a bit flawed. Do you need a FMVP to have a great career? No, Barkley, Garnett, Malone, Chris Paul, Curry, Nash.


However, do you need a FMVP to claim you had the best 5 year stretch in basketball history? 100% yes. So you are right, there are levels to this. And you are not realizing it while knowing that.


Top 25 greats dont "need" a FMVP.

Claims of best 5 year stretch in league history do.

[ELITEpower23]

Did any of Curry's teammates win a ring without him? You can believe 11 network employees or you can believe the stark record of before and after and unprecedented historical achievement.

First off you did not answer my questions, you completely side stepped them. Telling.

Secondly, which of his teammates have had the opportunity to do so? They are all still on the team. Bad comparison.

LeBron's teammates collected a total of 1 playoff series wins without him before they became teammates: Love, Kyrie, Bosh, AD. All from AD, too)

How many did KD have? Klay and Dray even won a series without him in 2016 1st round I believe. And they havent even played a year without him. You are losing this badly. Concede or receive further punishment. Yoir choice.

[tpols]

Damn, did he get the FMVP that year too?

didn't have to.

It was basketball perfection.

A new comissioner ordering the hit to extend the series, generate more hype, and money aint change my mind.

He might as well been vince McMahon.

https://media.giphy.com/media/kuLuAVBxOsQyk/200.gif

[ELITEpower23]

didn't have to.

It was basketball perfection.

A new comissioner ordering the hit to extend the series, generate more hype, and money aint change my mind.

He might as well been vince McMahon.

https://media.giphy.com/media/kuLuAVBxOsQyk/200.gif

If only he showed up to win :( Poor Curry

[Stephonit]

Your take is a bit flawed. Do you need a FMVP to have a great career? No, Barkley, Garnett, Malone, Chris Paul, Curry, Nash.


However, do you need a FMVP to claim you had the best 5 year stretch in basketball history? 100% yes. So you are right, there are levels to this. And you are not realizing it while knowing that.


Top 25 greats dont "need" a FMVP.

Claims of best 5 year stretch in league history do.

The subjective opinions of 11 people don't have more weight for me than an objective all-time record especially when those opinions have a history of being changed for expedience. All you are showing on insisting on their opinion instead of their possible argument is your own gullibility.

[ELITEpower23]

The subjective opinions of 11 people don't have more weight for me than an objective all-time record especially when those opinions have a history of being changed for expedience. All you are showing on insisting on their opinion instead of their possible argument is your own gullibility.

It's always the fat girls saying 'looks arent important!'

Its always the highschool dropouts saying "College doenst matter"

It's always the guys with no FMVPs saying 'they dont matter."

Right now you sound like a fat girl who dropped out of colege.

[Stephonit]

Since Mahatma Gandhi didn't get a Nobel Peace Prize I guess it means he's a lesser figure than someone like Emily Green Balch or John Raleigh Mott. Boo hoo.

[ELITEpower23]

Again, It's always the ugly fat girls saying "looks arent important!'

Its always the highschool dropouts saying "College doenst even matter bro."

It's always the guys with no FMVPs saying "they dont matter."

Right now you sound like a fat girl who dropped out of college.

[Stephonit]

It's always the fat girls saying 'looks arent important!'

Its always the highschool dropouts saying "College doenst matter"

It's always the guys with no FMVPs saying 'they dont matter."

Right now you sound like a fat girl who dropped out of colege.

And you're the one saying something matters like a fashion brand hawking its wears. "Buy these jeans they'll make you hip!" Maybe the college fat girl analogy comes from personal experience?

[Akeem34TheDream]

Stephen Curry definitely had the greatest 5 year stretch in the regular seasons.

[Stephonit]

Stephen Curry definitely had the greatest 5 year stretch in the regular seasons.

Then you combine that with 5 straight finals appearances with 3 rings in the 4 rounds 7-game series era.

[ELITEpower23]

And you're the one saying something matters like a fashion brand hawking its wears. "Buy these jeans they'll make you hip!" Maybe the college fat girl analogy comes from personal experience?

You sound like a fat girl college drop out.

[Stephonit]

You sound like a fat girl college drop out.

You sound like you're still in grade school.

[Axe]

You sound like a fat girl college drop out.
Hey, don't treat ayesha like that.

Otherwise, she might call her lover to screw you up.

[Monta Ellis MVP]

And you're the one saying something matters like a fashion brand hawking its wears. "Buy these jeans they'll make you hip!" Maybe the college fat girl analogy comes from personal experience?

This is bullying but it was funny.

[Stephonit]

This is bullying but it was funny.

That's not bullying. Bullying is what Curry's been doing to the rest of the league for the past 5 seasons. I mean really did you see that game where the Pelicans were setting a franchise record raining down threes and then Curry came back and said "nope, I do this better" and convinced Davis there was no way he was going to win staying in New Orleans? I knew he was outta there after that game.

[Bronbron23]

That's not bullying. Bullying is what Curry's been doing to the rest of the league for the past 5 seasons. I mean really did you see that game where the Pelicans were setting a franchise record raining down threes and then Curry came back and said "nope, I do this better" and convinced Davis there was no way he was going to win staying in New Orleans? I knew he was outta there after that game.

Lets not get carried away dude. Steph is great but hes hardly a bully. Hes definitely not a bully when it comes to defense which is half the game. Mj was a bully. Kobe was a bully. Shaq was a bully. Even bron at times was a bully which you should know better than anyone. Yeah steph can be a terror at times offensively but theres been way to many times deep in the playoffs when steph wasnt even the 2nd best offensive player on his own team let alone on the floor.

just go back to the 2016 finals if you wanna see bullying. Lebron was openly disrespecting and bullying steph. I legitimately felt bad for steph.

[aj1987]

A wonderful example why media awards mean diddly squat. Someone would really take those years 2009-2013 over 2015-2019? Losing to Dwight for no discernible reason? Being called a quitter by the owner of the team you lead the next year? Then promising "not one, not two, not three..." after forming a superteam and losing to Dirk who Wade had beaten on his own a previous time? That has to be one of the most disappointing 5-year periods relative to the number of accolades received.

Quite easily. Cuckry won a title with the opposing teams #2 and #3 players out. Almost managed to choke that away and was saved by Iggy. Choked the 3-1 lead the very next season. Begged Durant to join him and added a MVP to a 73 win team to beat two 51 teams to win his next to rings. Got a total of 4 FMVP votes, IIRC. Wasn't even remotely the best player on the '17 and '18 squads. Then, KD goes down and couldn't do jackshit against the Raptors. LeBron from '09-'13 takes a massive shit on '15-'19 Curry and it's not particularly close either.

[Stanley Kobrick]

5 years
0 iconic playoff moments

[Stephonit]

Lets not get carried away dude. Steph is great but hes hardly a bully. Hes definitely not a bully when it comes to defense which is half the game. Mj was a bully. Kobe was a bully. Shaq was a bully. Even bron at times was a bully which you should know better than anyone. Yeah steph can be a terror at times offensively but theres been way to many times deep in the playoffs when steph wasnt even the 2nd best offensive player on his own team let alone on the floor.

just go back to the 2016 finals if you wanna see bullying. Lebron was openly disrespecting and bullying steph. I legitimately felt bad for steph.

I don't remember it quite the way you do. Lebron openly disrespecting Steph was Lebron losing his composure. He was only doing that when he could get away with it. I remember

https://www.gifgen.com/gif/AUHRpQj9.gif

and

https://www.gifgen.com/gif/ZknBy3R3.gif

LeBron was lucky Steph didn't strip him immediately after making his faces making all his bullying look like a joke.

If there was a bully in that series that Curry was concerned about, it was the refs.

[Bronbron23]

I don't remember it quite the way you do. Lebron openly disrespecting Steph was Lebron losing his composure. He was only doing that when he could get away with it. I remember

https://www.gifgen.com/gif/AUHRpQj9.gif

and

https://www.gifgen.com/gif/ZknBy3R3.gif

LeBron was lucky Steph didn't strip him immediately after making his faces making all his bullying look like a joke.

If there was a bully in that series that Curry was concerned about, it was the refs.

Come on Bruh lebron blocked steph like 6 times that series all the while talking trash. And and for every steal or video you can find of steph playing good defense on kyrie i could show 10 of kyrie giving him the buisness.

But hey dont take my word for it. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bre2Vt-_8ME

[Stephonit]

Come on Bruh lebron blocked steph like 6 times that series all the while talking trash. And and for every steal or video you can find of steph playing good defense on kyrie i could show 10 of kyrie giving him the buisness.

But hey dont take my word for it. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bre2Vt-_8ME


You seem to misapprehend my intentions in showing those two images. Those were fouls number 5 and number 6 that got Curry fouled out of game 6.

Thank you for agreeing that that was good defense on Kyrie. Thank you also for the video showing what Curry was experiencing from LeBron on the other end.

https://www.gifgen.com/gif/KNapPbWg.gif

[Rico2016]

Quite easily. Cuckry won a title with the opposing teams #2 and #3 players out. Almost managed to choke that away and was saved by Iggy. Choked the 3-1 lead the very next season. Begged Durant to join him and added a MVP to a 73 win team to beat two 51 teams to win his next to rings. Got a total of 4 FMVP votes, IIRC. Wasn't even remotely the best player on the '17 and '18 squads. Then, KD goes down and couldn't do jackshit against the Raptors. LeBron from '09-'13 takes a massive shit on '15-'19 Curry and it's not particularly close either.

AJ has the hottest ethers. What a beast.

[Stephonit]

AJ has the hottest ethers. What a beast.

Couldn't finish reading it to be honest. Too many spelling mistakes.

[warriorfan]

Couldn't finish reading it to be honest. Too many spelling mistakes.

He’s a low iq troll.

[Stephonit]

I'm still left wondering who has a 5-year span better than Curry. 3 rings from 5 straight finals appearances in the modern NBA hasn't been bettered has it?

[Bronbron23]

I'm still left wondering who has a 5-year span better than Curry. 3 rings from 5 straight finals appearances in the modern NBA hasn't been bettered has it?

someone already said mj. 3 rings like curry and 2 mvps like curry but also has 3 fmvps, 5 scoring titles 5 first team defenses. Are you flicking serious with this shit?

[3ball]

Many games are basically even, and the only thing that matters is a few key plays here or there

Players that have offensive limitations won't perform as well on these critical possessions

That's why guys that are strong in every area offensively (Kobe, Kawhi, MJ, Bird, KD) are viewed as clutch assassins, while guys that aren't strong in every area don't play as well on those possessions (Curry, Lebron, Harden, Westbrook, CP3)

[Stephonit]

someone already said mj. 3 rings like curry and 2 mvps like curry but also has 3 fmvps, 5 scoring titles 5 first team defenses. Are you flicking serious with this shit?

You probably know my take on FMVPs already. As an award measuring value it is intrinsically flawed and as good as junk. The scoring titles have more validity. Curry though did make two more finals. Using the visual PIPM source I am referencing it is hard to clearly differentiate the two. Jordan's curve isn't as volatile but Curry peaks higher. The closest comparison I've seen. But I think the records Curry set still puts him over the top.

[RRR3]

Duhhhh hurrr hyuk ga DURRRRRRRR
:roll:

[RRR3]

You probably know my take on FMVPs already. As an award measuring value it is intrinsically flawed and as good as junk. The scoring titles have more validity. Curry though did make two more finals. Using the visual PIPM source I am referencing is hard to clearly differentiate the two. The closest comparison I've seen. But I think the records Curry set still puts him over the top.
Curry will never be better than MJ. Stop doing meth, it’s bad for you.

[Stephonit]

Curry will never be better than MJ. Stop doing meth, it’s bad for you.

The numbers are the numbers. Maybe you should tell them to stop doing meth.

[Bronbron23]

You probably know my take on FMVPs already. As an award measuring value it is intrinsically flawed and as good as junk. The scoring titles have more validity. Curry though did make two more finals. Using the visual PIPM source I am referencing it is hard to clearly differentiate the two. Jordan's curve isn't as volatile but Curry peaks higher. The closest comparison I've seen. But I think the records Curry set still puts him over the top.

nah man i couldn't disagree more. Just because u choose to ignore the importance of fmvps it doesn't make it so. Its the biggest stage their is. Its the equivalent to a major in tennis and golf or a title fight between 2 great fighters. Curry has continuously played below his own standard on the biggest stage with the exception of 2018 i believe. On top of ignoring the finals tour also ignoring defense which is half the game. Thers absolutely no argument for curry in any circumstance. Not 1 year. Not 3. Not 5 and not for a career.

[3ball]

The numbers are the numbers. Maybe you should tell them to stop doing meth.

I'll never forgive Curry for getting starched by Kyrie in 16'

What a waste - he breaks Jordan's plus-minus record and has an absolutely Goat-level season... Arguably goat

But then he blows it in the championship, which creates a fake debate!!!!!

F*ck that guy... And i mean that in the entertainment sense since I know he's a good dude in real life

[tpols]

I'll never forgive Curry for getting starched by Kyrie in 16'

What a waste - he breaks Jordan's plus-minus record and has an absolutely Goat-level season... Arguably goat

But then he blows it in the championship, which creates a fake debate!!!!!

F*ck that guy... And i mean that in the entertainment sense since I know he's a good dude in real life

you should be mad at silver for suspending dray in a critical close out home game 5 over this...

https://roheblius.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/usatthebiglead.files_.wordpress.com201606draymond-green-hit-lebron-james-in-the-nuts-b23580b2d8962ace3beaeb03d827d0b91bedade9-1.gif

^^^

that's why people dont respect bran. he has to do sketchy cheap shit to squeak it out.

[Stephonit]

nah man i couldn't disagree more. Just because u choose to ignore the importance of fmvps it doesn't make it so. Its the biggest stage their is. Its the equivalent to a major in tennis and golf or a title fight between 2 great fighters. Curry has continuously played below his own standard on the biggest stage with the exception of 2018 i believe. On top of ignoring the finals tour also ignoring defense which is half the game. Thers absolutely no argument for curry in any circumstance. Not 1 year. Not 3. Not 5 and not for a career.

There are so many statistical flaws involved with FMVP sampling that even if it got the numbers right it's conclusion would not be statistically valid. But there is an even more fundamental flaw: it is grossly biased towards individual numbers over team play. The greatest team players like Bird, Magic, and Duncan have had FMVPs given to teammates while those known for more individual play like Jordan and LeBron monopolize them on their team.

The first FMVP ever awarded tells you all you need to know. It was given to Jerry West in a losing cause. Perennial champion Bill Russell never got one. An embarrassment that points to the underlying truth: when it comes to the best players on a team a ring gives more information than the FMVP.

[Bronbron23]

There are so many statistical flaws involved with FMVP sampling that even if it got the numbers right it's conclusion would not be statistically valid. But there is an even more fundamental flaw: it is grossly biased towards individual numbers over team play. The greatest team players like Bird, Magic, and Duncan have had FMVPs given to teammates while those known for more individual play like Jordan and LeBron monopolize them on their team.

The first FMVP ever awarded tells you all you need to know. It was given to Jerry West in a losing cause. Perennial champion Bill Russell never got one. An embarrassment that points to the underlying truth: when it comes to the best players on a team a ring gives more information than the FMVP.

Ok and what about the other half of the game being defense. Id love to hear your excuse for that

[3ball]

you should be mad at silver for suspending dray in a critical close out home game 5 over this...

https://roheblius.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/usatthebiglead.files_.wordpress.com201606draymond-green-hit-lebron-james-in-the-nuts-b23580b2d8962ace3beaeb03d827d0b91bedade9-1.gif

^^^

that's why people dont respect bran. he has to do sketchy cheap shit to squeak it out.

Surely you're fibbing on that one - Dray gets stepped over and HE'S the one suspended?!..

I didn't know it happened like that... I remember when rodman and Malone were falling all over each other, and nothing.... no suspensions.. Silver is in the tank for Lebron with a suspension like that.. crazy

[Axe]

Curry stan is clueless

[AlternativeAcc.]

Surely you're fibbing on that one - Dray gets stepped over and HE'S the one suspended?!..

I didn't know it happened like that... I remember when rodman and Malone were falling all over each other, and nothing.... no suspensions.. Silver is in the tank for Lebron with a suspension like that.. crazy
Dray punched LeBron in the balls, it's literally on tape and obvious. And then tried to punch him again

Only got a tech for it.. which was the playoff limit that prompted the suspension

You need to study because you're not very knowledgeable

[tpols]

Surely you're fibbing on that one - Dray gets stepped over and HE'S the one suspended?!..

I didn't know it happened like that... I remember when rodman and Malone were falling all over each other, and nothing.... no suspensions.. Silver is in the tank for Lebron with a suspension like that.. crazy

thats what im saying... lebron is the one who instigated and caused the conflict.

because he was mad the dubs had just blew the 4th quarter open in cleveland...

yet dray gets suspended when he was having the best series of his career.

it's an entertainment league though...

[AlternativeAcc.]

thats what im saying... lebron is the one who instigated and caused the conflict.

because he was mad the dubs had just blew the 4th quarter open in cleveland...

yet dray gets suspended when he was having the best series of his career.

it's an entertainment league though...
It was a live play retard, he was trying to get back into the play as quick as possible.

[Stephonit]

Ok and what about the other half of the game being defense. Id love to hear your excuse for that

Curry specializing in offense indirectly allows his teammates to specialize in defense optimizing the entire group's skill mix. That's why you don't get the same kind of overlap and redundancy that you find in other teams lowering their overall ceiling. That's why in NBA history the Warriors are such an outlier among teams.

The modern world is built on specialists for a reason, much more so than previous generations that relied more on generalists. Specialization is simply more efficient.

[warriorfan]

you should be mad at silver for suspending dray in a critical close out home game 5 over this...

https://roheblius.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/usatthebiglead.files_.wordpress.com201606draymond-green-hit-lebron-james-in-the-nuts-b23580b2d8962ace3beaeb03d827d0b91bedade9-1.gif

^^^

that's why people dont respect bran. he has to do sketchy cheap shit to squeak it out.

What a joke. The best part was it wasn’t called on the court at the time but after LeBron whined to Adam Silver and he upgraded it and suspended Green hours after the game was over.

[Bronbron23]

Curry specializing in offense indirectly allows his teammates to specialize in defense optimizing the entire group's skill mix. That's why you don't get the same kind of overlap and redundancy that you find in other teams lowering their overall ceiling. That's why in NBA history the Warriors are such an outlier among teams.

The modern world is built on specialists for a reason, much more so than previous generations that relied more on generalists. Specialization is simply more efficient.

Bruh just stop. Curry tries his ass off on defense ill give him that. Its one of things i actually admire about him. Even though hes an all time bad defender you can tell he wants to be better and hes putting in the effort. Stop making excuses. Theres literally no case for your boy. Not stats, not wins and not eye test.

[999Guy]

And? Is that higher than what Curry averaged in his sweep? No.




To be blunt I don't understand what your point is. But I will explain my rationale for mentioning what I did. I described certain feats and records in my list of Curry accomplishments in that 5-year span. Why feats and records? Because they are unique. Every year someone wins games, wins championships, wins accolades. But records are rarer. They are outliers and outliers deserve special scrutiny and attention because that's where you are more likely to find the very best. In certain disciplines like in track and field it is the record that defines best even more than championships won. When you have all of NBA history to look at but a feat everyone is going for is then surpassed? That is very notable. That wins record is a big deal. That Curry has a claim to more than just that in the wins department should be eye-opening.
My point is your attempt to distinguish Curry’s prime as GOAT as basically no evidence.

He doesn’t have the highest sweep PPG, he didn’t lead the NBA in total plus minus, Draymond easily has led the NBA all the plus minus stats for RS and PS combined from 2015 to 2019. He’s higher than LeBron there.

Curry doesn’t have a monopoly on NBA records, and the ones he does only goes back to 1980.

I could just bring up Jordan’s PPG, Shaq’s OREB records, LeBron’s leading everyone in everything record in the 216 NBA finals, Hakeems block titles. Magic’s ridiculous RS and PS assist records.

You haven’t brought up any compelling evidence for him being goat, at all.

I was genuinely higher on him before this thread if anything. But between loaded teams and the injuries he’s had that got covered up by loaded teams I don’t see why I would put his prime on the level of young Jordan, LeBron, Kareem, Hakeem, or Shaq.

He’s much closer to Nash. Probably worse than Magic over his last 5 years of the 80’s.

[Rico2016]

Dray punched LeBron in the balls, it's literally on tape and obvious. And then tried to punch him again

Only got a tech for it.. which was the playoff limit that prompted the suspension

You need to study because you're not very knowledgeable

Knowledge Dropped

[AlternativeAcc.]

Knowledge Dropped
And just to clarify.. it was a flagrant foul not a tech. His FOURTH flagrant of the post season.. he's a known dirty player and kicked Adams in the balls in the series prior against OKC.

Lebron is the one who got a tech on that play. (For trying to get back into game action... insane)


"LeAgue iS riGGed"

:lol:oldlol:

Funny how they dissappear when the facts come out

[Rico2016]

And just to clarify.. it was a flagrant foul not a tech. His FOURTH flagrant of the post season.. he's a known dirty player and kicked Adams in the balls in the series prior against OKC.

Lebron is the one who got a tech on that play. (For trying to get back into game action... insane)


"LeAgue iS riGGed"

:lol:oldlol:

Funny how they dissappear when the facts come out

They gone!

What's your Insta ot Snap playa, we need to create a group or something.

[Stephonit]

My point is your attempt to distinguish Curry’s prime as GOAT as basically no evidence.

You mean aside from the wins records?



He doesnÂ’t have the highest sweep PPG

Yes he does for a four game sweep. 36 37 36 37 averages out to 36.5 last I heard. 36.5>36. In truth I only threw that in there to give people a who are familiar with the lesser player's exploits in the East due to all the crowing that goes on about it a double take.



he didnÂ’t lead the NBA in total plus minus, Draymond easily has led the NBA all the plus minus stats for RS and PS combined from 2015 to 2019. He’s higher than LeBron there.

Curry not Draymond. http://bkref.com/tiny/8d9Id

You might be tempted to argue that Draymond is the driver of those plus-minus numbers on the team. But are you really going to?

Curry missed 1/3 of the season in 2018—he still ended up leading the league in plus-minus for combined regular and post season.

http://bkref.com/tiny/NWKOZ



Curry doesn’t have a monopoly on NBA records

No one does.



[...] and the ones he does only goes back to 1980. I could just bring up Jordan’s PPG, Shaq’s OREB records, LeBron’s leading everyone in everything record in the 216 NBA finals, Hakeems block titles. Magic’s ridiculous RS and PS assist records.

But the point is to win and every player in history can be benchmarked according to that.




You haven’t brought up any compelling evidence for him being goat, at all.

I was genuinely higher on him before this thread if anything. But between loaded teams and the injuries heÂ’s had that got covered up by loaded teams I donÂ’t see why I would put his prime on the level of young Jordan, LeBron, Kareem, Hakeem, or Shaq.


Everyone is entitled to their opinion.


He’s much closer to Nash. Probably worse than Magic over his last 5 years of the 80’s.

Maybe you're thinking of 2013 and 2014 Curry since they are close to MVP Nash.
http://bkref.com/tiny/x26jI
http://bkref.com/tiny/zoOTl

Magic produced his greatest numbers in 1987. 2017 Curry matches fine with that and peak Larry Bird.

http://bkref.com/pi/shareit/EQ3Qy

[SATAN]

Defending Curry this hard is supremely weird, Dell. Just saying.

[Stephonit]

Bruh just stop. Curry tries his ass off on defense ill give him that. Its one of things i actually admire about him. Even though hes an all time bad defender you can tell he wants to be better and hes putting in the effort. Stop making excuses. Theres literally no case for your boy. Not stats, not wins and not eye test.

Eye test is in the eye of the beholder. Others don't see him attacking the bucket relentlessly and think he becomes a non-factor. I see him forcing traps from half court creating giant gaps for his teammates.

As I've said plus-minus paints a very favorable view of Curry over a 5-year span and I would be interested to know if there is another player who led their team who has more wins in a 5-year time frame.

[Stephonit]

No need to talk about just three years when we can talk about five.

[Axe]

Well, the warriors are 3-2 since the inception of the dynasty in 2k15.

[Stephonit]

If I'm being dead serious, quite a few

89-93 Jordan
12-16 LeBron
98-02 Shaq
01-05 Duncan
86-90 Magic
84-88 Bird
91-95 Hakeem
06-10 Kobe


Shaq 2000-04
Lebron 2012-16
Duncan 2003-07


Curry had more wins from 2015-2019 than all of the above although Bird might tie if you parse how games are credited. For the years we have readily available records from the above five-year stretches none approach Curry's in terms of plus-minus.


MJ 88-93: 3 rings, 3 FMVPs, 3 MVPs, DPOY

MJ 93-98: 3 rings, 3 FMVPs, 2 MVPs

Shaq 2000-2005: 3 rings, 3 FMVPs, 1 MVP

Lebron 2009-2014: 2 rings, 2 FMVPs, 4 MVPs

Magic 85-90: 3 rings, 1 FMVPs, 3 MVPs

Bird 81-86: 3 rings, 2 FMVPs, 3 MVPs( back to back to back)

Duncan 99-04: 2 rings, 2 FMVPs, 2 MVPs

Hakeem 90-95: 2 rings, 2 FMVPs, 1 MVP, 2 DPOY

Kobe 05-10: 2 rings, 2 FMVPs, 1 MVP

All warrant fair consideration.

Those are 6-year stretches.