Why was a Prime Kevin Garnett more durable than Anthony Davis??

[Lebron23]

KG rarely missed games in Minessota. Davis is also an nba legend, but he missed plenty of games with the New Orleans Pelicans.

[Wally450]

Yes. Not even remotely close.

KG is better than AD in every way.

[iamgine]

Because people are different.

[Axe]

The difference bet. the two is that kg already has a chip and has been a 4-time rebound champion, the latter which is something ad doesn't have yet.

[PP34Deuce]

KG was extremely conditioned. From Minnesota to even Celtics, he never tired out. Never lost intensity. AD is more talented than KG but body wise is built a little more brittle. KG was skinnier but it felt like he could muscle guys surprisingly.

[RogueBorg]

Davis is also an nba legend

:lol he is? What has he done?

[BigKobeFan]

Davis is an all time great, with elite skills in a PF body. KG couldn't win anything in Minnesota.

[HylianNightmare]

Davis is an all time great, with elite skills in a PF body. KG couldn't win anything in Minnesota.
Like Davis with the pelicans

[fourkicks44]

Kevin Garnett played in the 90's.

So in the summer he had to work part time as a stone mason to make ends meet.

This provided better conditioning from all the hard outdoor manual labour.

[HoopsNY]

KG was consistently criticized for not being able to take over games and not being a big 4th quarter player. He was essentially a poor man's Tim Duncan. I remember the frustration because despite being a Knicks fan in the early 2000s, KG was my favorite player.

He just couldn't dominate the way other stars could and although he was solid defensively, he wasn't a major defensive force as Ben Wallace or Tim Duncan. I love KG, but I think Anthony Davis has the skills to pass him, he just need more intensity in his game. It doesn't look good that he's largely failed in the playoffs and even played alongside talent like Holiday, Randle, and Cousins, but couldn't take them to that next level.

I think this speaks more to AD's lack of leadership skills than it does his unrefined talent. This is where a player like Lebron comes into play and the reason why I think no one can beat the Lakers in the playoffs this year.

[FireDavidKahn]

Because he is bigger in a certain area.

[FireDavidKahn]

KG was consistently criticized for not being able to take over games and not being a big 4th quarter player. He was essentially a poor man's Tim Duncan. I remember the frustration because despite being a Knicks fan in the early 2000s, KG was my favorite player.

He just couldn't dominate the way other stars could and although he was solid defensively, he wasn't a major defensive force as Ben Wallace or Tim Duncan. I love KG, but I think Anthony Davis has the skills to pass him, he just need more intensity in his game. It doesn't look good that he's largely failed in the playoffs and even played alongside talent like Holiday, Randle, and Cousins, but couldn't take them to that next level.

I think this speaks more to AD's lack of leadership skills than it does his unrefined talent. This is where a player like Lebron comes into play and the reason why I think no one can beat the Lakers in the playoffs this year.

This post had literally zero to do with the OP.

[HoopsNY]

This post had literally zero to do with the OP.

I know, lol.

[Axe]

Davis is an all time great, with elite skills in a PF body. KG couldn't win anything in Minnesota.
How many times do you think ad has led the pelicans to 50+ wins and the wcf compared to kg doing the same thing with the timberwolves?

[Lion's pride]

Because he is bigger in a certain area.

How do you now...


sorry couldn't help it..:lol

[Turbo Slayer]

Davis is an all time great, with elite skills in a PF body. KG couldn't win anything in Minnesota.



Davis is an all time great, with elite skills in a PF body. What makes you think that? Based on what?


KG couldn't win anything in Minnesota. Taking your statement literally: he was All-Rookie, 8X All-NBA, and 8X All-Defensive up to that point when KG went to Boston.

He has been considered in the MVP conversation multiple time including the time where he WON MVP in 2004. He was also a 10X All-Star. He was 4X TRB Champ, ranked 1st in the NBA (PER) 2 times in 2004 and 2005, and ranked 1st in VORP two times in 2004 and 2005.

He was 1st in the NBA for total defensive rebounds 5 times in a row from 2003 to 2007. He also ranked 1st two time for total rebounds in 2004 and 2005.

So what makes you say that "KG couldn't win anything in Minnesota"? He was a pretty damn good rebounder and a monster on defense and won MVP.


KG couldn't win anything in Minnesota KG was surrounded with trash talent the majority of time he was in MIN. It's no coincidence that Celtics started to win immediately when KG was actually on a GOOD team fielded with Pierce and Allen.

[Phoenix]

Davis is an all time great, with elite skills in a PF body. KG couldn't win anything in Minnesota.

Did I somehow miss AD winning in New Orleans?

[Turbo Slayer]

Davis is an all time great, with elite skills in a PF body.

For comparison sake let's compare Shaq and Anthony Davis. Since you are a Kobe fan you should be familiar with Shaq. We are comparing the first 8 years in their career to be absolutely fair to both sides of the equation.

Shaq in his early years was already being considered an all-time great which is crazy to say the least.

Shaq was drafted to a worse team which the team (a year earlier) posted a SRS of negative 6.52.
That is worse than the team that AD came to in the 1st place where the Hornets posted a negative 3.11 the year before AD was in the NBA. Both teams had the same win total, 21 wins in a season. Very bad for both teams.

So when Shaq played he boosted the team's win total to 41 wins while AD only boosted his team to 27 wins.

The next year, Magic had already 50 wins in the column versus Pelicans who had 34 wins.

The next year after that Magic got even better (57) versus Pelicans (45)

Next year, Magic (60) versus Pelicans (30)

Next year, Lakers (61) versus Pelicans (48)

Next year, Lakers (31) versus Pelicans (34)

Lakers (67, championship) vs Lakers (49)

People pre 2019 wasn't calling AD an alltime great. Shaq was quickly considered to be top 50 in his first few years in the league. (BTW this is not a slight at Kobe at all I just wanted you to know the differences)

EDIT: A mistake in the win totals. My bad.

[Axe]

In fairness, 2019-20 is the only season so far in which ad's team has won more than 48 regular season games.

[tpols]

AD is only a top 5-10 player.. which is great but garnett at his best was peak MVP level

Davis doesnt have garnetts aggressive disposition or motor.

he's more finesse, albeit a better scorer imo. AD's jumper is way smoother.

[Phoenix]

For comparison sake let's compare Shaq and Anthony Davis. Since you are a Kobe fan you should be familiar with Shaq. We are comparing the first 8 years in their career to be absolutely fair to both sides of the equation.

Shaq in his early years was already being considered an all-time great which is crazy to say the least.

Shaq was drafted to a worse team which the team (a year earlier) posted a SRS of negative 6.52.
That is worse than the team that AD came to in the 1st place where the Hornets posted a negative 3.11 the year before AD was in the NBA. Both teams had the same win total, 21 wins in a season. Very bad for both teams.

So when Shaq played he boosted the team's win total to 41 wins while AD only boosted his team to 27 wins.

The next year, Magic had already 50 wins in the column versus Pelicans who had 34 wins.

The next year after that Magic got even better (57) versus Pelicans (45)

Then, Lakers (61) vs Pelicans (48)

Next year, Magic (60) versus Pelicans (30)

Next year, Lakers (61) versus Pelicans (48)

Next year, Lakers (31) versus Pelicans (34)

Lakers (67, championship) vs Lakers (49)

People pre 2019 wasn't calling AD an alltime great. Shaq was quickly considered to be top 50 in his first few years in the league. (BTW this is not a slight at Kobe at all I just wanted you to know the differences)

EDIT: A mistake in the win totals. My bad.

Think he was seen as an alltime great talent, which would be a fair statement. In fairness to him, the very best team he ever had to work with is probably a ECFs level team. No shame in him losing to that Warriors squad in 2018 like everyone in their spot would have.

[Turbo Slayer]

Think he was seen as an alltime great talent, which would be a fair statement. In fairness to him, the very best team he ever had to work with is probably a ECFs level team. No shame in him losing to that Warriors squad in 2018 like everyone in their spot would have. I'm definitely not blaming AD for losing to that Warriors team. Everyone knew that year that the Warriors were winning the title back to back and AD had basically no chance winning that series with that average-to-good talent pool around him. It's just not going to work against GSW.

[Phoenix]

I'm definitely not blaming AD for losing to that Warriors team. Everyone knew that year that the Warriors were winning the title back to back and AD had basically no chance winning that series with that average-to-good talent pool around him. It's just not going to work against GSW.

Yeah. I don't think AD has reached peak KG level, but in terms of talent he's right there. Might even be a bit moreso overall, but talent is much harder to quantify than results. They both had/have the burden of spending significant portions of their prime stuck on teams with huge talent deficits to the best teams in the conference. Like if you take 2004 KG and stick him on the same Pelican teams I don't think the results are much different. They'll make the playoffs and lose to the Warriors or the Harden/Paul Rockets. AD back in the early 2000s? The Wolves will win 42 games, get to the 8th seed then get shit on by the Mavs, Spurs or whoever else. I think the net results end up roughly the same.

[Stephonit]

Davis is a very good player. But I have a problem with people calling him an all-time great already. Seems to devalue the term given his accomplishments so far. Garnett at least was an MVP even when he couldn't show much in terms of team results in Minnesota. Davis was a standout in college and that has carried him a long way, but if he was to retire tomorrow I could not call him an all-time great. There just isn't enough great in the present much less all-time.

[Turbo Slayer]

Yeah. I don't think AD has reached peak KG level, but in terms of talent he's right there. Might even be a bit moreso overall, but talent is much harder to quantify than results. They both had/have the burden of spending significant portions of their prime stuck on teams with huge talent deficits to the best teams in the conference. Like if you take 2004 KG and stick him on the same Pelican teams I don't think the results are much different. They'll make the playoffs and lose to the Warriors or the Harden/Paul Rockets. AD back in the early 2000s? The Wolves will win 42 games, get to the 8th seed then get shit on by the Mavs, Spurs or whoever else. I think the net results end up roughly the same. I think KG had the slightly worse supporting cast. If we compare the rest of their starting fives (Not including AD and KG, Regular Season) you get this...

Average PER

MIN- 13.55 PER

PEL- 16.95 PER

Average VORP

MIN- 1.6 VORP

PEL- 1.7 VORP

They absolutely carried their teams to the Playoffs. I almost feel bad for them for wasting their time and prime on that kinda of supporting casts the front office had given them.

[Turbo Slayer]

What's even more amazing that LeBron carried a cast arguable to these supporting casts to the NBA Finals.

2018 Regular Season

Average PER of 14

Average VORP of 0.4

That speaks to LeBron James floor raising abilities. It is quite literally one of the greatest carry jobs in postseason history. LeBron is truly one of the all time greats.

[Phoenix]

I think KG had the slightly worse supporting cast. If we compare the rest of their starting fives (Not including AD and KG, Regular Season) you get this...

Average PER

MIN- 13.55 PER

PEL- 16.95 PER

Average VORP

MIN- 1.6 VORP

PEL- 1.7 VORP

They absolutely carried their teams to the Playoffs. I almost feel bad for them for wasting their time and prime on that kinda of supporting casts the front office had given them.

AD still has 2/3 of his career ahead of him and assuming he hangs around the Lakers, some other primetime star will join him when Bron hangs it up. KG stuck with the Wolves through 31 and had what was basically his last real prime year in 08. If he was in the player movement era like these guys are now, he'd have forced his way out of Minny in 03, teamed up with Ray and Pierce when they were all 27 years old and rang off 3 titles.

[Turbo Slayer]

Fair enough. As we all know, the early 2000s Eastern Conference was weak as hell and KG, Ray, and Pierce would stand to benefit from the weak East and the downfall of the dynasty Lakers. It is really convenient for them. I mean the conference Finals opponents for 2004, 2005, and 2006 would be Pistons, Pistons, and Heat. All good teams but I don't think they necessarily beat the Celtics because as we know the mid to late 2000's Celtics were really good defensively and had too much firepower.

They would also benefit from it because LeBron and the Cavs were still developing and rebuilding and the Celtics would have likely walled off LeBron sooner than later if it ever came to it (if they faced off in the POs).

EDIT: Spelling mistake and some errors.

[Phoenix]

An 04 Pistons/ Celtics series with KG/Allen/Pierce would have been a classic, as well as an 06 series with the Heat. And of course in the finals you're looking at the Shaq/Kobe/Malone/Payton Lakers, the Spurs in 05/07 and Mavs in 06. Any or all of those would have been great finals series if you took basically the 08 Celtics and made the big 3 four years younger.

[Turbo Slayer]

Damn the pace back then was so slow. I couldn't imagine watching a game of isos. Seems ugly as hell to me. I never watched the early 2000s so don't judge me but it seemed bad back then in terms of entertainment.

[Phoenix]

2000s is generally acknowledged as a tough defensive era which was the catalyst for opening the perimeter up in 2005. When that happened a number of guys experienced career years. It's what makes statistics a hard thing to use for comparing players separated by decades apart.

[Turbo Slayer]

You can use Points per 100 possessions to make up the differences between eras. I don't use PPG or anything like that.

I think PTS per 100 is more accurate and representative.

[tpols]

i dont agree that garnett would only get as much out of the pelicans as Davis did.

Garnett was playing in an even more stacked west than today... with shaq kobe duncan dirk nash etc.

And all he needed was Sam Cassell and some nice role players to damn near take down LA. If sam didnt get hurt they might've won. and i think twolves beat detroit.

You give him a multiple time all star like jrue holiday and some decent role players i think he can go a bit further than perrenial first round exit.

His defense and leadership, general competitiveness is higher and it compels his team to win.

[Phoenix]

i dont agree that garnett would only get as much out of the pelicans as Davis did.

Garnett was playing in an even more stacked west than today... with shaq kobe duncan dirk nash etc.

And all he needed was Sam Cassell and some nice role players to damn near take down LA. If sam didnt get hurt they might've won. and i think twolves beat detroit.

You give him a multiple time all star like jrue holiday and some decent role players i think he can go a bit further than perrenial first round exit.

His defense and leadership, general competitiveness is higher and it compels his team to win.

Hes not getting that team past the Warriors, so in that sense hes not taking the Pelicans further than what AD did. I would take KG over AD 10/10 times, but that doesnt mean he's taking out Golden State under the same conditions. Ditto for the Rockets in 18. A KG led Pelicans squad would be a middle of the pack playoff team fighting for the right to lose in the 2nd round at any point in the last 5 years.

[Phoenix]

You can use Points per 100 possessions to make up the differences between eras. I don't use PPG or anything like that.

I think PTS per 100 is more accurate and representative.

Yeah but that doesnt account for defensive rules and conditions.

[tpols]

Hes not getting that team past the Warriors, so in that sense hes not taking the Pelicans further than what AD did. I would take KG over AD 10/10 times, but that doesnt mean he's taking out Golden State under the same conditions. Ditto for the Rockets in 18. A KG led Pelicans squad would be a middle of the pack playoff team fighting for the right to lose in the 2nd round at any point in the last 5 years.

could've easily led them to a better record than 8 with all star help.

so that analysis is shallow from the start.

[Phoenix]

could've easily led them to a better record than 8 with all star help.

so that analysis is shallow from the start.

Saying KG 'easily' leads them isn't groundbreaking analysis. The best team AD had was in 2018, they got the 6th seed with 48 wins( the third seed had 49) and they lose to the Warriors in the second round.

So what's your argument? That KG on that team gets a few more wins, possibly the third seed, and loses to the Rockets in their bracket as opposed to the Warriors? Because that's the net result swapping AD with KG on the Pelicans in the best case scenario. The degree of 'success' is the same but if you want to argue that KG gets them a few more season wins, but loses at the same point with the only question being which juggernaut takes them out in 5, be my guest.

[Turbo Slayer]

Yeah but that doesnt account for defensive rules and conditions. Using Points per 100 or 75 possessions is still one of the best ways to "normalize" stats on very different teams and in very different eras to determine who is a better scorer. Points per 75 is better than Points per 100 b/c it gives a more accurate representation.

If we just use PPG it won't give us a clear view because it doesn't adjust for pace automatically. If we just use PPG then Wilt is better than Jordan in scoring in some seasons so yeah...

[ralph_i_el]

AD is only a top 5-10 player.. which is great but garnett at his best was peak MVP level

Davis doesnt have garnetts aggressive disposition or motor.

he's more finesse, albeit a better scorer imo. AD's jumper is way smoother.

I think KG had an easier time getting his J off than AD when he was younger. He had such elevation and a high release, he could shoot it over anybody.

[light]

Genetics?

[Turbo Slayer]

he's more finesse, albeit a better scorer imo. AD's jumper is way smoother.

Points per 75 possessions

Anthony Davis (right now) (27.77 points/75 on 18.1 FGA)

Kevin Garnett (2003-04) (24.84 points/75 on 19.6 FGA)

rTS%

Anthony Davis (+5) (right now)

Kevin Garnett (+3.1) (2003-04)

Surprisingly, it's close. It's worth noting KG got his buckets in a tougher environment and AD got his in a era where more free movement is allowed. It's a close fight.

[Axe]

Davis is a very good player. But I have a problem with people calling him an all-time great already. Seems to devalue the term given his accomplishments so far. Garnett at least was an MVP even when he couldn't show much in terms of team results in Minnesota. Davis was a standout in college and that has carried him a long way, but if he was to retire tomorrow I could not call him an all-time great. There just isn't enough great in the present much less all-time.
At least he'd probably end up with a fmvp if he ever leads his team to a championship, unlike your lover...