To the many fans slandering different eras (past or modern):

[hiphopanonymous]

This is not a good way to discuss basketball.

I recall there is/was a large group of basketball fans that grew up watching the 90's NBA that felt it was a requirement to basically slander prior eras/competition as one of the tools to value MJ more highly than say, legendary players of prior generations like say a Wilt or Russell or Kareem etc. Michael Rappaport is an example of one of them so I'm not attacking anyone specifically here though a few of you might also have been (or still are) guilty of this. I'm just pointing out that people like this do exist. This is the type of fan that routinely never fails to state that the "old" competition in their eyes was basically worthless in prior eras (usually they just don't care/understand that era very well) so we can forget about them and focus on what is current (which was once MJ).

The irony is this is now the EXACT same thing that is happening to MJ and I notice some of these exact same fans are not responding very well to it and sound identical to fans of prior eras that had tried to defend the players they enjoyed watching with long winded explanations how the game was once different and how MJ could adjust etc. Anyone doing this with MJ is now an old fart no better than the old farts they tried to mock. For the younger fans, try not to be so blind that this won't eventually happen to you as one day this will be LeBron and Harden getting mocked for looking so goofy and awkward playing a game you loved but that doesn't resemble the new brand of basketball of 2040 that has an entirely different requirement to be considered great. The 'old era that looks weird / who the hell did he play against!? (forgotten competition) / so it must've sucked' category.

Wiser to assume every all time great mastered the sport that was in front of them. That it wasn't any better or worse, it has just changed over time. Old fans shouldn't trash the current era either it just fuels backlash by younger minds who didn't see what you saw but have fun watching what is played right now. We should point out differences, but impartially, the game is ever changing and always will be. Who's to say it's better with or without zone defense, or with or without hand checking, traveling, carrying. Etc. It's all subjective.

[sdot_thadon]

Great post, and imo absolutely spot on correct. In the 90s this was the way we figured was necessary to put Mj over a guy like Wilt who had done things so substantial that we still haven't seen any of it again to this day. I remember having debates with Wilt fans over Mj that looked really similar to whats happening now......

[Turbo Slayer]

Good post.

[hiphopanonymous]

What's funny is even Skip Bayless does this. Embiid became a fan of Wilt and recently said he considered Wilt his GOAT. Skip Bayless - an old American white guy - tried to mock the era Wilt played in as an "American white guy" league (which of course is so simplistic and dismissive and can be dissected more intelligently but that wasn't the point). Cited the lack of American white players today as a reason to dismiss the American white players that dominated in yester-year.

Meanwhile fans today act equally annoyed with all the MJ get-off-my lawn generation - and mock a league that had Larry Bird winning MVP's and pics and videos of Jeff Hornacek Danny Ainge and John Stockton guarding or shooting over MJ. It's so hypocritical. But weirdly, people like Skip and Rappaport still stick to their argument yet now go ballistic when it's pointed at their favorite era or player which is now ironally also a thing of the past.

Everyone should learn from this and not be like those guys. You can't have your cake and eat it to arguing like that.

[Marchesk]

Meanwhile fans today act equally annoyed with all the MJ get-off-my lawn generation - and mock a league that had Larry Bird winning MVP's .

Thing is it's not like Bird was not considered that athletic in the 80s either. Not compared to other small forwards like Dominique or Dr. J. Isiah and Rodman caused some controversy after the end of Pistons Celtics series game 4 when Bird stole the inbound pass and fed DJ for wining layup. They said something about Bird being white and unathletic.

Jordan, for all his trash talking and super competitive personality, would never have dissed Bird like that. He knew how good Bird was. But anyway, Bird was winning MVPs in a league with plenty of super athletic dudes and great scorers.

I still remember that 20 year old Lebron fan telling me Jordan would be average in today's game, because players are that much better shooters now. I can't stand that kind of ignorance. It kills me inside that some people aren't just trolling a message board.

[hiphopanonymous]

Thing is it's not like Bird was not considered that athletic in the 80s either. Not compared to other small forwards like Dominique or Dr. J. Isaiah and Rodman caused some controversy after the end of Pistons Celtics series game 4 when Bird stole the inbound pass and fed DJ for wining layup. They said something about Bird being white and unathletic.

Jordan, for all his trash talking and super competitive personality, would never have dissed Bird like that. He knew how good Bird was.
Right, and all the hypocrite fans from MJ's era that would diss Jerry West's era don't even know who Joe Caldwell or Gus Johnson are and their athleticism relative to say - West or other players of that time let alone have any respect for them. You think Skip Bayless or Michael Rappaport has even heard of those guys? Or the other fans that think arguing that way is a valid way to discuss basketball era comparisons. Who can diss who's era the most goes nowhere in my opinion it's just divisive.

[ralph_i_el]

I think the overall level of play increases as basketball becomes an older sport.

This is because of the innovations of previous generations. I've been watching ball long enough now to see moves and strategies invented, popularized, and then adopted all over the league.

My grandad is a big basketball fan who grew up in the Bay Area. He would go watch his all-white high school play against Bill Russell's team in Oakland. He stayed a fan of Russell's all through college and his career. He tells me stories of pre-50's basketball, where players heaved shots with two hands from behind their heads. The jumpshot wasn't even invented then. It's not that these guys couldn't do the things modern players do...it's that nobody had ever thought of those things. He's seen almost the entire evolution of the sport, and will talk endlessly about how the league has changed over time.

The players (AND COACHES) of today stand on the shoulders of giants. They all owe a huge debt to those who came before them.


Another sports story about my grandad: By the end of Harbaugh's tenure with the 9ners, grandad could guess their offensives plays with 80%+ accuracy. He and my dad would absolutely lose their shit at the predictability.

[light]

It's the prerogative of the present.

And the past deserves it. It usually does.