Lebron's current caliber is insufficient to win title as best player on these Lakers

[3ball]

1) he wasn't holding back in the regular season like he usually does - that was the best he can play and his stats weren't that good, or even the best on his team... that means he falls off in the playoffs as the top guy - this is similar to any player that falls off in the playoffs without that extra gear that lebron normally has..

2) AD is the only guy getting doubled on that team, so he's the only guy making the opponent's defense work, therefore taking away from their offensive capacity - if he can't dominate important stretches and command doubles, the Lakers have no chance

3) the stats show that AD was contributing to wins 25% more than Lebron (0.260 ws/48 and 0.210 for Bron)... Has there ever been a bigger deficit for an MVP winner?

[Turbo Slayer]

wut?

[light]

lol.

nothing to see here. move along.

[3ball]

wut?

Lebron is already the 2nd best player on the Lakers by every statistical measure, except value above replacement (whooptiwhoo)

That should've been thread title...

Has there ever been a guy that was 2nd place on his team in ws/48 by a wide margin that was considered the best player?.. I can't think of any.. lebron is 2nd in winning contribution by a wide margin

And also by impact - AD is the guy wearing the defense down - this doesn't show up in the regular season half-ass, but it means everything in the playoffs when guys are scrapping hard

[3ball]

Lakers won't win without AD getting Finals MVP (being the most important player)


^^^ that should've been thread title... Or simply, AD > Lebron

[Turbo Slayer]

Lebron is already the 2nd best player on the Lakers by every statistical measure, except value above replacement (whooptiwhoo)

That should've been thread title...

Has there ever been a guy that was 2nd place on his team in ws/48 by a wide margin that was considered the best player?.. I can't think of any.. lebron is 2nd in winning contribution by a wide margin

And also by impact - AD is the guy wearing the defense down - this doesn't show up in the regular season half-ass, but it means everything in the playoffs when guys are scrapping hard Hamilton had a better WS/48 than Jordan in 2002 but all right. You consider Jordan to be the best on those Wizards team I recall back then so yeah...

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/WAS/2002.html

[3ball]

Hamilton had a better WS/48 than Jordan in 2002 but all right. You consider Jordan to be the best on those Wizards team I recall back then so yeah...

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/WAS/2002.html
I purposefully underlined "by a wide margin" and you still ignored it...

Rip barely led MJ in WS/48 and MJ led everything else... Whereas AD leads lebron in ws/48 by a mile, while also leading everything else

I just don't understand how the media is lying about this Bron guy - AD contributes to wins 25% more (ws/48), with higher PER.. I don't see how lebron can win MVP.. It doesn't help that he was lottery last year and couldn't elevate Ingram

[Turbo Slayer]

Damn how come the GOAT missed the POs in both years? I mean I heard that he was "dominating" and "competitive" and has "will to win"?

I was told that he can carry "bums" and win the championship every time/every year?. I mean MJ stans claim this.

Tell me how.

[3ball]

When you have to cite wizards jordan who got hurt (and wasn't an MVP candidate) you lose

[dbugz]

They aint even winning against the clippers this season :oldlol:

AD isn't really a good number 1 option. His teammates sucks.

[Axe]

So bran is simply going to be bailed out by ad as best player in their team? :oldlol:

[ELITEpower23]

Hamilton had a better WS/48 than Jordan in 2002 but all right. You consider Jordan to be the best on those Wizards team I recall back then so yeah...

https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/WAS/2002.html

Turbo stays slayin. Nice find

[Turbo Slayer]

Turbo stays slayin. Nice find Thanks!

[3ball]

Pretty good call imo

[AlternativeAcc.]

Mods..

[TheCorporation]

Damn how come the GOAT missed the POs in both years? I mean I heard that he was "dominating" and "competitive" and has "will to win"?

I was told that he can carry "bums" and win the championship every time/every year?. I mean MJ stans claim this.

Tell me how.

/thread

[3ball]

Mods..

Don't you wish that you had the basketball knowledge and understanding to make a call like the thread title?

Instead, you're surprised at everything that happens... Surprised that Ingram > Pippen... Surprised that the Lakers can't beat an 8 seed without AD as the best player... :facepalm:

Why do you even watch?... :kobe:

[3ball]

So bran is simply going to be bailed out by ad as best player in their team? :oldlol:
Precisely

And you look like a fool for ever doubting 3ball..

[StrongLurk]

OP is actually right for once.

The extreme Lebron stans would never admit, but Lebron in a LAKERS uniform has clearly declined. He's not a top 5 player anymore. Still amazing for a guy who is going to be 36 in 4 months.

[CTbasketball92]

OP is actually right for once.

The extreme Lebron stans would never admit, but Lebron in a LAKERS uniform has clearly declined. He's not a top 5 player anymore. Still amazing for a guy who is going to be 36 in 4 months.


Yeah this is what I was afraid of honestly, he's right. Really I guess you could really say last year was the first time LeBron couldn't be as good he needed to be on call the same way he did up until 2018. From 2007 to 2018 it always seemed like LeBron had a borderline limitless ceiling where he could do whatever needed to be done just because he had to. If things were even or even close, LeBron would win, just like MJ. If he needed to dominate strictly off of defense even if his jumper wasn't falling, he could do that (2015 Finals). if he needed to generate an entire offense by himself he could do so like he did in 2018 or any run before he had a Big 3.

Last year, even though or because of the injury, LeBron couldn't just turn it on and get the lakers to the playoffs. That was the first sign but it was too early to assume because LeBron is simply too good.

What's clear now is that even for all LeBron's athleticism had declined by 2018, he has now fallen another level. Two years ago he was, all things considered, roughly as athletic as anyone else. Now he literally can't blow by Carmelo Anthony. He can't get by Gary Trent Jr. He routinely comes up short at the rim. He can barely get anywhere. He looks slow and ground-bound. He's not simply an average athlete in the halfcourt but still elite in the open court. But he can't get by anyone to create in the midrange and even if he could, he's not able to shoot better than 35% from there anyway. LeBron has struggled to score all year and so this stuff isn't really all that sudden. It's just for the first time, when it seemed like LeBron was coasting, he wasn't.

Now, I don't necessarily know that the premise of this thread is all the way right. All of the other top 5 players have fatal flaws too. LeBron's appears to be that he's not an elite scorer anymore. The thing is though he's still a very good and versatile defender and offensively, he's basically a more mobile version of Jokic that can dribble and dominate through passing. He can control the tempo of the game and he's still a guaranteed 22-25 a game on good efficiency. Kawhi's a mediocre playmaker, Harden is always choking, Giannis' halfcourt playmaking and scoring against elite defenses is still limited, Jokic still isnt an incredible scorer, just a very good one. Luka actually doesn't have any of these flaws, he just has to continue proving it. Anthony Davis is still a limited big man and the offense is awful whenit's just him on the court. LeBron is still the better player. People at the bottom of the top 10 aren't factors.

So LeBron can still win the chip AND be the best player arguably. But it's very clear he's fallen off and the unstoppable LeBron is no more. The only way he can really reverse this is to become an elite midrange shooter. If he can shoot 40-45% on midrange jumpers like he did in Miami and shoot them on high enough volume while also keeping his three-ball at 35% he can regain some of his scoring powers back. But with a weak one-on-one game and a very mediocre jumper, he'll never have claim to the No. 1 spot again. Still top 5 though.

[Shogon]

OP is actually right for once.

The extreme Lebron stans would never admit, but Lebron in a LAKERS uniform has clearly declined. He's not a top 5 player anymore. Still amazing for a guy who is going to be 36 in 4 months.

What the ****? Shut up idiot. LeBron has been in decline for 7 ****ing years. It didn't start with LA. He peaked in 2013.

It's just that his basketball intelligence has largely kept improving in various subtle ways which has made it seem like he hasn't been declining overall, but he has indeed been declining for 7 years, despite the bbiq improvements.

[StrongLurk]

What the ****? Shut up idiot. LeBron has been in decline for 7 ****ing years. It didn't start with LA. He peaked in 2013.

It's just that his basketball intelligence has largely kept improving in various subtle ways which has made it seem like he hasn't been declining overall, but he has indeed been declining for 7 years, despite the bbiq improvements.

I'd take Lebron in the 2017 and 2018 playoffs over him in the 2013 playoffs.