LeBron played with 5 combined All-NBA/All-Defensive teammates, Jordan played with 15

[Jordan96]

Why such a big discrepancy?

[3ball]

Who won with only 1 perennial all-star, and who always needed 2 to win?

And how many wins if everyone on a team is a worse scorer than Horace Grant??.... 0 wins? Maybe 1?.. Otoh, Love and Bosh won 40-47 on their own

MJ only needed 1 star to win.... Lebron 2.. lebron always needed a 3rd scorer... MJ didn't

The proof is in the offenses - lebron clearly had more offensive help, but worse offenses

/thread

[Jordan96]

Who won with only 1 perennial all-star, and who always needed 2 to win?

And how many wins if everyone on a team is a worse scorer than Horace Grant??.... 0 wins? Maybe 1?.. Otoh, Lobe and Bosh won 40-47 on their own

MJ only needed 1 star to win.... Lebron 2

The proof is in the offenses - lebron clearly had more offensive help, but worse offenses
/thread

All-NBA is worth more than All-Star, so no comparison


And LeBron won without any all stars in 2016, while Jordan lost with an allstar in 1990 and 1995, so we already know LeBron does more with less

[LAmbruh]

this is huge coming from a unbiased 1996 Jordan fan

[Axe]

All-NBA is worth more than All-Star, so no comparison


And LeBron won without any all stars in 2016, while Jordan lost with an allstar in 1990 and 1995, so we already know LeBron does more with less
So you don't ever think nor recognize that kyrie irving and kevin love became all-stars at all during some point in their careers? What a sad troll.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/b7a2d2308cbecdc8cba805e6260e597a/tenor.gif

[ELITEpower23]

this is huge coming from a unbiased 1996 Jordan fan

+1

The evidence is overwhelming

[Jamal23]

Who won with only 1 perennial all-star, and who always needed 2 to win?

And how many wins if everyone on a team is a worse scorer than Horace Grant??.... 0 wins? Maybe 1?.. Otoh, Love and Bosh won 40-47 on their own

MJ only needed 1 star to win.... Lebron 2.. lebron always needed a 3rd scorer... MJ didn't

The proof is in the offenses - lebron clearly had more offensive help, but worse offenses

/thread
LeBron had more help offensively but Jordan had way more help defensively

He literally had GOAT defenders by his side his entire career (Harper,Grant, Rodman,Pippen, Oakley)

And LeBron never had a team that could win 55 games and remain championship contenders without him

Overall MJ had more help

[Axe]

Mj and the bulls also had a perennial head coach in hof pj. But wait a minute...

Ain't basketball supposed to be a team sport?

[AlternativeAcc.]

Jordan had the best coach ever and more help on both sides. Plus faced significantly worse competition

Jordan is barely top 10 all time, whereas lebron is undisputed number 1

[LostCause]

Lol look at all these new Bron Stan alts since the doc aired :oldlol:

Just gotta vent that insecurity huh

[ELITEpower23]

Lol look at all these new Bron Stan alts since the doc aired :oldlol:

Just gotta vent that insecurity huh

Imagine creating an account in July 2016

https://i.postimg.cc/GhYvWh6Q/q1q1q1q1q1q1q1.png

Where does it hurt the most?

[Axe]

Jordan had the best coach ever and more help on both sides. Plus faced significantly worse competition

Jordan is barely top 10 all time, whereas lebron is undisputed number 1
Don't you ever think that lebron lost more in the game for you to call him that so-called 'undisputed number 1'?

[Axe]

Imagine creating an account in July 2016

https://i.postimg.cc/GhYvWh6Q/q1q1q1q1q1q1q1.png

Where does it hurt the most?
Chill out.

People would think that you might be trying to expose your true colors now.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Don't you ever think that lebron lost more in the game for you to call him that so-called 'undisputed number 1'?

He's won more with less than anybody in history

Hes gonna go down with the most wins in playoff history

He's won more than anybody with constantly changing rosters and garbage head coaches. GOAT

[Axe]

He's won more with less than anybody in history

Hes gonna go down with the most wins in playoff history

He's won more than anybody with constantly changing rosters and garbage head coaches. GOAT
Shit :oldlol:

Such narrative is the biggest reason why we have divisiveness in the bball world

[ELITEpower23]

He's won more with less than anybody in history

Hes gonna go down with the most wins in playoff history

He's won more than anybody with constantly changing rosters and garbage head coaches. GOAT

Second most playoff series wins as well. Passed up MJ a while back, then passed up Pippen. Only 1 more playoff series win to tie Kareem for most all time.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Second most playoff series wins as well. Passed up MJ a while back, then passed up Pippen. Only 1 more playoff series win to tie Kareem for most all time.

Unreal.

And imagine if he had a Pippen like sidekick his entire career (Elite two way player who stays healthy every year) how many more wins he would have.

He's been doing this with one dimensional washed up injury prone 2nd and 3rds and garbage role players literally every season.

[Axe]

We shouldn't forget the fact that bran still had to come in south beach that already had former fmvp wade and also recently got raptors star bosh in order to form a triumvirate that had one ultimate goal; to win multiple championships.

[AlternativeAcc.]

We shouldn't forget the fact that bran still had to come in south beach that already had former fmvp wade and also recently got raptors star bosh in order to form a triumvirate that had one ultimate goal; to win multiple championships.

Wade and Bosh both fell off a cliff due to injuries and poor work ethic and lebron still managed to carry them to multiple rings

How many points did star Bosh score in game 7 of the 2013 finals?

[Axe]

Wade and Bosh both fell off a cliff due to injuries and poor work ethic and lebron still managed to carry them to multiple rings

How many points did star Bosh score in game 7 of the 2013 finals?
You probably mean to say that bran's presence had to diminish their plays so he would appear more dominant in terms of carrying their own asses, right?

Also, why does it matter if bosh had a subpar scoring in the title-clinching game that year? His iconic moment came in game 6 anyway when he had that huge block against danny green's 3-pointer that would have sent the very tight contest to another overtime.

[Cyrus334]

Wade and Bosh both fell off a cliff due to injuries and poor work ethic and lebron still managed to carry them to multiple rings

How many points did star Bosh score in game 7 of the 2013 finals?

And who was it that wasted the best year of Bosh and Wade when they first teamed up? I'll give you a hint

[AlternativeAcc.]

You probably mean to say that bran's presence had to diminish their plays so he would appear more dominant in terms of carrying their own asses, right?

Also, why does it matter if bosh had a subpar scoring in the title-clinching game that year? His iconic moment came in game 6 anyway when he had that huge block against danny green's 3-pointer that would have sent the very tight contest to another overtime.

No I meant what I said. Wade and Bosh sucked and put up empty stats on fringe lottery teams before lebron rescued their careers (just like he did with irving and love... how are they doing without bron btw... both are still very young)

Wade was a flash in the pan Gilbert Arenas type player. 2 or 3 elite years and fell off the face of the earth. Bosh was just a run of the mill volume scorer on teams that never made it out of the 1st round.. he brought nothing to the table as a complimentary player... zilch

[AlternativeAcc.]

And who was it that wasted the best year of Bosh and Wade when they first teamed up? I'll give you a hint
Wade

[Cyrus334]

Wade

:roll::roll::roll:

[light]

Compare their All-Defensive teammates during their trips to the playoffs.

Jordan's All-Defensive teammates:

1984-85 -
1985-86 -
1986-87 -
1987-88 -
1988-89 -
1989-90 -
1990-91 - Scottie Pippen
1991-92 - Scottie Pippen
1992-93 - Scottie Pippen, Horace Grant
1994-95 - Scottie Pippen
1995-96 - Scottie Pippen, Dennis Rodman
1996-97 - Scottie Pippen
1997-98 - Scottie Pippen

LeBron's All-Defensive teammates:

2005-06 -
2006-07 -
2007-08 -
2008-09 -
2009-10 -
2010-11 -
2011-12 -
2012-13 -
2013-14 -
2014-15 -
2015-16 -
2016-17 -
2017-18 -

LeBron went to 9 finals and won 3 rings with no All-Defensive help at all.

And now he has AD.

https://s7.gifyu.com/images/Bron-AD-Championship-Bondde2487b09dc82dfd.gif

Career LeBron haters are going to be hating life over the next half decade.

[ELITEpower23]

Wade and Bosh both fell off a cliff due to injuries and poor work ethic and lebron still managed to carry them to multiple rings

How many points did star Bosh score in game 7 of the 2013 finals?

I think it was either 2 or 0. He disappeared a lot.

[Axe]

No I meant what I said. Wade and Bosh sucked and put up empty stats on fringe lottery teams before lebron rescued their careers (just like he did with irving and love... how are they doing without bron btw... both are still very young)

Wade was a flash in the pan Gilbert Arenas type player. 2 or 3 elite years and fell off the face of the earth. Bosh was just a run of the mill volume scorer on teams that never made it out of the 1st round.. he brought nothing to the table as a complimentary player... zilch
Lol here you are again with the blame game. As usual, you're pointing out his teammates for their shortcomings when your idol is also a part of it.

Since you're talking about their careers in their respective original teams, i guess i could understand bosh for not having made more success in a team that's being looked at as one of the worst franchises in the league back then.

And you do realize that wade, as well as his team, made the playoffs four straight times since his debut in the league, finally winning the chip and fmvp in '06? However, after that season, he became plagued with shoulder and knee injuries that most likely have declined his game ever since.

Still, the trio could have been more phenomenal in the heat but for odd reasons, they weren't. They didn't appear to be dominant as they should have been. They could have been like the warriors in the last five years, a dynasty breaking numerous all-time records but obviously, it didn't happen at all.

Lol all the hype about bran and his team from before were just nothing because they performed below the minimum expectations. Also, his finals losses in '14 & '18 became compelling reasons for him to leave the two teams he's led to the finals four-straight times each.

[AlternativeAcc.]

I think it was either 2 or 0. He disappeared a lot.

It was zero. Bosh was a big fat zero. Worthless as a complimentary player

[Axe]

Compare their All-Defensive teammates during their trips to the playoffs.

Jordan's All-Defensive teammates:

1984-85 -
1985-86 -
1986-87 -
1987-88 -
1988-89 -
1989-90 -
1990-91 - Scottie Pippen
1991-92 - Scottie Pippen
1992-93 - Scottie Pippen, Horace Grant
1994-95 - Scottie Pippen
1995-96 - Scottie Pippen, Dennis Rodman
1996-97 - Scottie Pippen
1997-98 - Scottie Pippen

LeBron's All-Defensive teammates:

2005-06 -
2006-07 -
2007-08 -
2008-09 -
2009-10 -
2010-11 -
2011-12 -
2012-13 -
2013-14 -
2014-15 -
2015-16 -
2016-17 -
2017-18 -

LeBron went to 9 finals and won 3 rings with no All-Defensive help at all.

And now he has AD.

https://s7.gifyu.com/images/Bron-AD-Championship-Bondde2487b09dc82dfd.gif

Career LeBron haters are going to be hating life over the next half decade.
You know what's the biggest difference bet. those two, huh, bran stan dup?

Apart from rodman, it's that mj didn't recruit pippen nor grant into his team, as well as mj didn't need to hop into other teams just to have his first chip. Prior to '91, no player from that roster had appeared in a finals before.

Meanwhile, lbj got his first ring by forming the triumvirate in a miami heat team that already had former fmvp wade since '03 and recently got former raptors star bosh.

Now, you're telling us that he's got ad then suddenly the lakers are now bound for the playoffs after a long drought. Also, don't forget superman, a runner-up contestant in the 2009 finals.

But yes, mj still had help and he was very selfish in the finals while lbj didn't.

[Axe]

It was zero. Bosh was a big fat zero. Worthless as a complimentary player
He's worthless against an aging defensive stalwart in duncan.

[ELITEpower23]

Compare their All-Defensive teammates during their trips to the playoffs.

Jordan's All-Defensive teammates:

1984-85 -
1985-86 -
1986-87 -
1987-88 -
1988-89 -
1989-90 -
1990-91 - Scottie Pippen
1991-92 - Scottie Pippen
1992-93 - Scottie Pippen, Horace Grant
1994-95 - Scottie Pippen
1995-96 - Scottie Pippen, Dennis Rodman
1996-97 - Scottie Pippen
1997-98 - Scottie Pippen

LeBron's All-Defensive teammates:

2005-06 -
2006-07 -
2007-08 -
2008-09 -
2009-10 -
2010-11 -
2011-12 -
2012-13 -
2013-14 -
2014-15 -
2015-16 -
2016-17 -
2017-18 -

LeBron went to 9 finals and won 3 rings with no All-Defensive help at all.

And now he has AD.

https://s7.gifyu.com/images/Bron-AD-Championship-Bondde2487b09dc82dfd.gif

Career LeBron haters are going to be hating life over the next half decade.

*2010 had Varejao but still, 2011 to 2018 is a long run. That is still 7 straight years with no all defense help. Record? I think it is

[Axe]

*2010 had Varejao but still, 2011 to 2018 is a long run. That is still 7 straight years with no all defense help. Record? I think it is
Key word: eastern conference

[ELITEpower23]

Key word: eastern conference

Any conference. Take your pick.

7 years
7 Finals
0 all defensive teammates

[Axe]

Any conference. Take your pick.

7 years
7 Finals
0 all defensive teammates
Do you think he can do the same thing in a much stacked conference?

[Duncan21formvp]

Lebron played with Carlos Boozer who became a star once he left Lebron. Lebron played with Ben Wallace who was the only star on a team that won it all and a 4x DPOY. He played with Shaq who was a 3x Finals MVP winner and league mvp and who won with Kobe and Wade but once he played with Lebron only got to round 2. He played with Wade in Wade's city when Wade had won a title as the man. He got Kyrie and Love who put up 26 and 14 before ever playing with Lebron. Goes to show playing with Lebron means your abilities will be minimized which is why he has 2 bronze medals.

[ELITEpower23]

Lebron played with Carlos Boozer who became a star once he left Lebron. Lebron played with Ben Wallace who was the only star on a team that won it all and a 4x DPOY. He played with Shaq who was a 3x Finals MVP winner and league mvp and who won with Kobe and Wade but once he played with Lebron only got to round 2. He played with Wade in Wade's city when Wade had won a title as the man. He got Kyrie and Love who put up 26 and 14 before ever playing with Lebron. Goes to show playing with Lebron means your abilities will be minimized which is why he has 2 bronze medals.

But Ben Wallace on the Cavs only scored 2.9 points. I was told points are all that matters. Is this tru?

[Duncan21formvp]

But Ben Wallace on the Cavs only scored 2.9 points. I was told points are all that matters. Is this tru?

Lebron played with Carlos Boozer who became a star once he left Lebron. Lebron played with Ben Wallace who was the only star on a team that won it all and a 4x DPOY. He played with Shaq who was a 3x Finals MVP winner and league mvp and who won with Kobe and Wade but once he played with Lebron only got to round 2. He played with Wade in Wade's city when Wade had won a title as the man. He got Kyrie and Love who put up 26 and 14 before ever playing with Lebron. Goes to show playing with Lebron means your abilities will be minimized which is why he has 2 bronze medals.

[ELITEpower23]

Lebron played with Carlos Boozer who became a star once he left Lebron. Lebron played with Ben Wallace who was the only star on a team that won it all and a 4x DPOY. He played with Shaq who was a 3x Finals MVP winner and league mvp and who won with Kobe and Wade but once he played with Lebron only got to round 2. He played with Wade in Wade's city when Wade had won a title as the man. He got Kyrie and Love who put up 26 and 14 before ever playing with Lebron. Goes to show playing with Lebron means your abilities will be minimized which is why he has 2 bronze medals.

But Ben Wallace on the Cavs only scored 2.9 points. I was told points are all that matters. Is this tru?

[Axe]

:roll:

[eliteballer]

LeBron also played with Steroids.

[Duncan21formvp]

But Ben Wallace on the Cavs only scored 2.9 points. I was told points are all that matters. Is this tru?

You were told wrong. What matters is Finals MVP and league MVP's as well as gold medal for America in basketball. No bronze medal allowed for people born in the 50 states for basketball.

[3ball]

LeBron had more help offensively but Jordan had way more help defensively

He literally had GOAT defenders by his side his entire career (Harper,Grant, Rodman,Pippen, Oakley)

And LeBron never had a team that could win 55 games and remain championship contenders without him

Overall MJ had more help

94' bulls weren't talented and won via the 3-peat system they'd developed

Unfortunately, Lebron lacks the skill to play in a system or develop one to championship level, so his impact on teams is horrible compared to Jordan

And Lebron always had more rim protection, more athletic guards and more rebounders - so his defensive help was equal or better, but he simply couldn't lead them like MJ did

[Smoke117]

3ball's mind...where defensive doesn't exist whatsoever...unless it was Michael Jordan who he actually believes he had a bigger impact than someone like Hakeem or Robinson. The absolute butt fukk insanity at work...

[3ball]

Why are lebron's teammates all-defense the year before joining lebron (10' Wade and 05' Hughes), but then become nothing alongside him?

Lebron kills their offense and their defense

Lebron played with more guys that were all-defense (Wade, Hughes, Battier, Varejao)

[Axe]

So pippen wasn't talented at all?

Yikes

[theman93]

And? Lebron chose the teams he wanted to play for. So at the end of the day any help he did or didnt have falls on him.

[Smoke117]

Why are lebron's teammates all-defense the year before joining lebron (10' Wade and 05' Hughes), but then become nothing alongside him?

Lebron played with more guys that were all-defense (Wade, Hughes, Battier, Varejao)

Uh...Wade was a great defensive player in 2011. He should have been all defensive first team in 09 and 10, but the coaches were just penciling in shit as they hate voting anything and voting Kobe who was completely inferior to him. You only need to see how Kobe was on the first team in 2011 not playing any defense at all while Wade, a vastly superior defensive player, was on no team to see that. It was nothing to with LeBron you ****ing hairless ape. Wade's disrespect defensively is all this love affair with Kobe. Also the fact that you equate to Wade not making a team to him not playing defense or something is hilarious. You're such a pathetic ****ing tool. Even more pathetic is that you weren't even watching and you're just running your stupid bitch mouth off all defensive nods. How ****ing stupid can you be? Wade has been disrespected defensively his entire career. You trying to make this some lebron thing is pathetic.

[3ball]

So pippen wasn't talented at all?

Yikes

1 talented player = talented team?

Again, 94' bulls weren't talented and won via the 3-peat system they'd developed

Unfortunately, Lebron lacks the skill to play in a system, so his impact on teams is horrible compared to Jordan

And why are lebron's teammates all-defense the year before joining lebron (10' Wade and 05' Hughes), but then become nothing alongside him?

So Lebron kills their offense and their defense

Lebron played with more guys that were all-defense (Wade, Hughes, Battier, Varejao)

[Axe]

1 talented player = talented team?

Again, 94' bulls weren't talented and won via the 3-peat system they'd developed

Unfortunately, Lebron lacks the skill to play in a system, so his impact on teams is horrible compared to Jordan

And why are lebron's teammates all-defense the year before joining lebron (10' Wade and 05' Hughes), but then become nothing alongside him?

Lebron kills their offense and their defense

Lebron played with more guys that were all-defense (Wade, Hughes, Battier, Varejao)
Lol you never fail to amuse me, 3ball. :oldlol:

[Smoke117]

So pippen wasn't talented at all?

Yikes

lol, you serious bruh? Come on. Without Jordan, Pippen isn't even near a current OG Anunoby. Look up 3ball have to look he even is...you know...because he doesn't actually watch any basketball and hasn't for about 10 years.

[3ball]

Lol you never fail to amuse me, 3ball. :oldlol:

Lebron is 2/2

2/2 at turning all-defenders into bad defenders

Btw, people touting 55 wins shows how dumb people are... A bad team can win 55 games via system.. those bulls were a bad team and those playoffs proved it along with 1995 pre-mj

[Smoke117]

See how the little bitch ignores anyone who destroys everything he says? lol. He keeps responding to a fellow retard in arms like Axe, but he has nothing for me. Yes. That is completely right. You should stay quiet before your embarrass yourself further. Or no...you'll respond eventually...but you have to furiously look up some stats before...god your pathetic. And so is this whole part for humoring your lunacy.

[Duncan21formvp]

Battle this

What matters is Finals MVP and league MVP's as well as gold medal for America in basketball. No bronze medal allowed for people born in the 50 states for basketball.

[Axe]

See how the little bitch ignores anyone who destroys everything he says? lol. He keeps responding to a fellow retard in arms like Axe, but he has nothing for me. Yes. That is completely right. You should stay quiet before your embarrass yourself further. Or no...you'll respond eventually...but you have to furiously look up some stats before...god your pathetic. And so is this whole part for humoring your lunacy.
Sorry to burst your bubble, lil' beelzebub but i ain't a retard.

You are, fool. Oh, and i know you have a dup here named SATAN.

[3ball]

Uh...Wade was a great defensive player in 2011. He should have been all defensive first team in 09 and 10, but the coaches were just penciling in shit as they hate voting anything and voting Kobe who was completely inferior to him. You only need to see how Kobe was on the first team in 2011 not playing any defense at all while Wade, a vastly superior defensive player, was on no team to see that. It was nothing to with LeBron you ****ing hairless ape. Wade's disrespect defensively is all this love affair with Kobe. Also the fact that you equate to Wade not making a team to him not playing defense or something is hilarious. You're such a pathetic ****ing tool. Even more pathetic is that you weren't even watching and you're just running your stupid bitch mouth off all defensive nods. How ****ing stupid can you be? Wade has been disrespected defensively his entire career. You trying to make this some lebron thing is pathetic.

Okay you adequately explained away Wade even though i still think its the lebron effect.... because he did it before

With Hughes.... why was Hughes reduced to rubble on both ends of the floor alongside bron

[SATAN]

Sorry to burst your bubble, lil' beelzebub but i ain't a retard.

You are, fool. Oh, and i know you have a dup here named SATAN.

You're an idiot.

[Smoke117]

Okay you adequately explained away Wade even though i still think its the lebron effect.... because he did it before

With Hughes.... why was Hughes reduced to rubble on both ends of the floor alongside bron

lol Larry Hughes was just never that good, you stupid shit. Anyone who actually WATCHED basketball and watched him play can tell you that. He was in the perfect system for him on the Wizards. He was never something special or something. I'm sure you think is the equal of Pippen, though, being as fully retarded as you are, though, since you just type your greasy fingers up on basketball-reference to look up stats for your moronic opinions. Go sit in the corner and shut your mouth for the remainder of this thread.

[Axe]

You're an idiot.
Stop using incognito tab or other browser via different smartphone, fool.

[86Celtics]

Why such a big discrepancy?

Because of James himself. He could have played in any team he wished after leaving the Cavs the first time. He also had Blatt fired with a 30-11 record and had Lue replace him.

Nobody's fault but his own. By the way, although unlikely, he could end up winning more than Jordan. He still won't be considered the better basketball player. That ship sailed a long time ago.

[Rico2016]

It's widely known that MJ needed tons of defensive help in order to win. Pippen is like a Kawhi. Imagine having a Scottie Kawhi type for your entire career four your entire prime.

[Jordan96]

It's widely known that MJ needed tons of defensive help in order to win. Pippen is like a Kawhi. Imagine having a Scottie Kawhi type for your entire career four your entire prime.


Agreed

[AlternativeAcc.]

It's widely known that MJ needed tons of defensive help in order to win. Pippen is like a Kawhi. Imagine having a Scottie Kawhi type for your entire career four your entire prime.

Pippen had GOAT consistency and health for a 2nd option which led to amazing chemistry

Jordan was the luckiest player ever. Had the best 2nd option ever, the best role players of his time, and the GOAT coach. Every year in the 90's.

[Rico2016]

Pippen had GOAT consistency and health for a 2nd option which led to amazing chemistry

Jordan was the luckiest player ever. Had the best 2nd option ever, the best role players of his time, and the GOAT coach. Every year in the 90's.

On top of having the goat 2nd option, best role players (Grant/Rodman) and GOAT coach, he played the weakest Finals teams of all time.

[Axe]

It's widely known that MJ needed tons of defensive help in order to win. Pippen is like a Kawhi. Imagine having a Scottie Kawhi type for your entire career four your entire prime.
Lol you can't convert a team to become a dynasty when led by one-man army alone


On top of having the goat 2nd option, best role players (Grant/Rodman) and GOAT coach, he played the weakest Finals teams of all time.
Which is a typical butthurt narrative claim.

[Jordan96]

Lol there’s no response to this I see

[deathawaitu]

That's okay

Jordan won without a Top 10 GOAT teammate, on the other hand Lebron failed to win with another top 10 teammate in Shaq =(

Kobe and Wade would never waste Shaq's service like that

How great is our Jordan winning with inferior teammates? :rockon:

We Keep Winning boys

[Hey Yo]

Lebron is 2/2

2/2 at turning all-defenders into bad defenders

Btw, people touting 55 wins shows how dumb people are... A bad team can win 55 games via system.. those bulls were a bad team and those playoffs proved it along with 1995 pre-mj
A team with 3 All-Stars is all of a sudden a bad team?

Since when did you take that stance? You've cried for years about MJ not having All-Stars. Now all of a sudden having 3 doesnt matter??

[light]

LeBron’s All-NBA and All-Defensive Teammates, Finals Years:

2007 -
2011 - Wade (2nd All-NBA)
2012 - Wade (3rd All-NBA)
2013 - Wade (3rd All-NBA)
2014 -
2015 - Irving (3rd All-NBA)
2016 -
2017 -
2018 -

Jordan’s All-NBA and All-Defensive Teammates, Finals Years:

1991 - Pippen (2nd All-Defensive)
1992 - Pippen (2nd All-NBA, 1st All-Defensive)
1993 - Pippen (3rd All-NBA, 1st All-Defensive), Grant (2nd All-Defensive)
1996 - Pippen (1st All-NBA, 1st All-Defensive), Rodman (1st All-Defensive)
1997 - Pippen (2nd All-NBA, 1st All-Defensive)
1998 - Pippen (3rd All-NBA, 1st All-Defensive)

:lebronamazed:

[Jordan96]

Michael “Needs more Help” Jordan at 15

LeBron “One man Army” James at 5

[dbugz]

Why MJ fans are always winning on every libron and mj thread?

https://media1.tenor.com/images/b6c333bf86584e54766a1c878813ac8f/tenor.gif

:dancin

[Axe]

Michael “Needs more Help” Jordan at 15

LeBron “One man Army” James at 5
The triumvirate in south beach sounded like a failure

[Soundwave]

A old-ass 38 year old Jordan took the Wizards from being the 2nd worst defence in the NBA to 6th best with no other real big additions to the roster before blowing out his knee. Had them with a winning 26-21 record after being one of the worst teams prior.

No Scottie Pippen.

In 97-98, a still quite old Jordan at age 35/36 had the Bulls no.1 in the Eastern Conference and no.1 overall for top defence in the league without Pippen in the lineup.

If anything, Jordan's defensive impact is remarkable and underrated because of all the attention his scoring titles and memorable clutch play moments get. LeBron or Kobe are no where close to that level of impact defensively. The Lakers were mediocre defensively even with 34 year old LeBron, it's not until in his prime AD showed up that they are good, the Wizards had a monstrous turn around defensively with a healthy old as dirt Jordan.

[RogueBorg]

Pippen had GOAT consistency and health for a 2nd option which led to amazing chemistry

Jordan was the luckiest player ever. Had the best 2nd option ever, the best role players of his time, and the GOAT coach. Every year in the 90's.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcSK4O2z220CopaAbxvYfnbFi-A6uOyS1FJl7cR-2GUgewB5R1cw&usqp=CAU

You're all chasing this same ghost.

[Roundball_Rock]

How many did Ewing play with? Robinson? Barkley? Wilkins? Drexler? And so on. That would be revealing. I saw a meme on social media that claimed the number for Hakeem was 5, for example.

[ELITEpower23]

It's widely known that MJ needed tons of defensive help in order to win. Pippen is like a Kawhi. Imagine having a Scottie Kawhi type for your entire career four your entire prime.

No wonder MJ won so much Rico

[Pip' N Rodman]

Damn...

[And1AllDay]

Damn...

this ones a wrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrraaaaaaaaaaaaap

:hammertime:

[TheCorporation]

Compare their All-Defensive teammates during their trips to the playoffs.

Jordan's All-Defensive teammates:

1984-85 -
1985-86 -
1986-87 -
1987-88 -
1988-89 -
1989-90 -
1990-91 - Scottie Pippen
1991-92 - Scottie Pippen
1992-93 - Scottie Pippen, Horace Grant
1994-95 - Scottie Pippen
1995-96 - Scottie Pippen, Dennis Rodman
1996-97 - Scottie Pippen
1997-98 - Scottie Pippen

LeBron's All-Defensive teammates:

2005-06 -
2006-07 -
2007-08 -
2008-09 -
2009-10 -
2010-11 -
2011-12 -
2012-13 -
2013-14 -
2014-15 -
2015-16 -
2016-17 -
2017-18 -

LeBron went to 9 finals and won 3 rings with no All-Defensive help at all.

And now he has AD.

https://s7.gifyu.com/images/Bron-AD-Championship-Bondde2487b09dc82dfd.gif

Career LeBron haters are going to be hating life over the next half decade.

Guys?

[TheCorporation]

https://i.postimg.cc/L6r8vpxg/MJ-had-more-help-16-vs-7.png

Facts are facts

[3ba11]

Wrong

https://i.postimg.cc/L6r8vpxg/MJ-had-more-help-16-vs-7.png


.

Top Tier Dominant Series or Playoff Runs by Lebron's teammates

* Wade 2011 Playoffs and Finals (led Lebron in scoring)
* Kyrie 2016 Playoffs and Finals (equal-scoring partner with Lebron)
* Kyrie 2017 Playoffs and Finals (26 and 29 ppg in PO/Finals)
* AD 2020 Playoffs and Finals (led league in playoff scoring)




Top Tier Dominant Series or Playoff Runs by Jordan's teammates






Lebron needed 2 all-star teammates to win rings, or he needed a teammate to outproduce him (AD), while Jordan didn't need anything - Pippen's stats were defensive role player caliber, but his resume got inflated by the winning spotlight and association with MJ, just like Kobe got a few extra all-defense for the same reason (winning spotlight and association with MJ)

Ultimately, everyone in history needed an equal-scoring partner in the playoffs for at least half their rings, while Jordan led his sidekick in every SERIES by at least 10 ppg - so there's no comparison - Jordan stands alone in carrying teams - he won 6 chips with a team of defensive role players that NEVER DOMINATED OFFENSIVELY

Teammate scoring matters because equal-scoring teammates attract equal defensive attention, so only MJ faced "1-man team" defensive attention for his entire career, (thus giving maximum integrity to his stats and rings).. Kenny Smith talks about MJ being the only 1-man show here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=4UF6Xx3F2Lo&t=01m54s).

Accordingly, rings with 2nd options are greater than rings with 1b's and Jordan has far more rings with true 2nd options than anyone else in history - that's his irrefutable goat argument.....




Bleacher Report calculated the difference in PER between 1st and 2nd options, and added this to the difference in WS between 1st and 2nd options to get a "Robin Factor", where Jordan clearly has the least help from his sidekick:


https://i.makeagif.com/media/7-10-2021/vth8NN.gif

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/825582-michael-jordan-why-his-rings-count-more-than-kareems-kobes-or-russells..

[ELITEpower23]

this is huge coming from a unbiased 1996 Jordan fan

+1

[kawhileonard2]

Lebron played with more allstars as well as more guys who won DPOY as well as more who won league mvp and/or finals mvp.

[kawhileonard2]

LeBron had more help offensively but Jordan had way more help defensively

He literally had GOAT defenders by his side his entire career (Harper,Grant, Rodman,Pippen, Oakley)

And LeBron never had a team that could win 55 games and remain championship contenders without him

Overall MJ had more help

Lebron doesn't have a team that can even win 55 games with him despite having 2 other stars on his squad. Goes to show some guys cant maximize talent.