Can a 32 and 33 years old Michael Jordan win an nba title with the 2017 and 2018 Cavs

[Lebron23]

If he was in the same situation as LeBron James. So what happens if you replace LBJ with MJ??

[MrFonzworth]

Nope. Not making the playoffs in 2018 either.

[Cyrus334]

Nope. Not making the playoffs in 2018 either.

:lol :lol :lol :lol

[Duncan21formvp]

Pretty handily he wins it. At 32 and 33 he was winning 72 and 69 games with one allstar. Lebron had 2 other allstars one year and one allstar another year. And these guys were stars before Lebron ever played with them.

[LAmbruh]

Nope. Not making the playoffs in 2018 either.

this

[ELITEpower23]

Pretty handily he wins it. At 32 and 33 he was winning 72 and 69 games with one allstar. Lebron had 2 other allstars one year and one allstar another year. And these guys were stars before Lebron ever played with them.

No Pip

[MrFonzworth]

No Pip

No Pip? What does this entail?

[Bronbron23]

If he was in the same situation as LeBron James. So what happens if you replace LBJ with MJ??

hed have a chance. If the 18 rockets could give yhe kd warriors a go no reason why mj with a decent team couldn't

[3ball]

The impact of bigs was maximized in Jordan's era, not perimeter players

But perimeter players are maximized today, so MJ's impact would be greater and he'd win with less

He'd win in 2018 because he'd win the 3 close games that lebron lost (Bron lost 2 fourth quarter leads)

[Duncan21formvp]

No Pip

Wouldn't need Pippen having a 2nd option outplaying the other teams league mvp winner.

[LAmbruh]

No Pip? What does this entail?


no chip

[MrFonzworth]

no chip

:applause:

[ELITEpower23]

No Pip? What does this entail?

No Chip. It's an MJ fact. He doesn't have a single playoff run or championship without Pip. If you take just 1 guy from his career all of his achievements evaporate and he becomes a Russell Westbrook type. Great player, empty stat stuffer though in the end of it all.

[ELITEpower23]

hed have a chance. If the 18 rockets could give yhe kd warriors a go no reason why mj with a decent team couldn't

No Pip

[MrFonzworth]

No Chip. It's an MJ fact. He doesn't have a single playoff run or championship without Pip. If you take just 1 guy from his career all of his achievements evaporate and he becomes a Russell Westbrook type. Great player, empty stat stuffer though in the end of it all.

I agree with you ELITEpower23.

[Docs Orders]

https://66.media.tumblr.com/8d65d7282e439a2ad9ae23a69ec02972/tumblr_nfh4dv21XC1qcmnsoo7_400.gifv

[ELITEpower23]

https://66.media.tumblr.com/8d65d7282e439a2ad9ae23a69ec02972/tumblr_nfh4dv21XC1qcmnsoo7_400.gifv

http://watterson.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/d699f0d97d410857e99a2324c3c38c58.gif

[Duncan21formvp]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVsah5EBKuI

[3ball]

No Chip. It's an MJ fact. He doesn't have a single playoff run or championship without Pip. If you take just 1 guy from his career all of his achievements evaporate and he becomes a Russell Westbrook type. Great player, empty stat stuffer though in the end of it all.
MJ is the goat winner of the modern era - twice as many "best player" rings as anyone else in the modern era

So his goat stats were the opposite of empty

And Pippen cost MJ a 3-peat from 88-90'... Piston-killer Worthy or Magic-killer KJ would easily 3-peat with MJ from 88-90'

Pippen simply won the "3-peat with MJ" lottery so the winning spotlight inflates his inferior production

[ELITEpower23]

MJ is the goat winner of the modern era - twice as many "best player" rings as anyone else in the modern era

So his goat stats were the opposite of empty

And Pippen cost MJ a 3-peat from 88-90'... Piston-killer Worthy or Magic-killer KJ would easily 3-peat with MJ from 88-90'

Pippen simply won the "3-peat with MJ" lottery so the winning spotlight inflates his inferior production

He won all his rings when zone defense was illegal...Bron is the zone defense king. Not MJ. He is 90s illegal defense era. Yikes

[tpols]

if you gave MJ kyrie and love from the jump they'd be winning... and always favorites.

Jordan wouldnt be shook of iggy dray or pretty boy splash bros. He'd score at will.

[Duncan21formvp]

He won all his rings when zone defense was illegal...Bron is the zone defense king. Not MJ. He is 90s illegal defense era. Yikes

Then why does he have bronze medals? Why couldn't he win a title with Shaq when Kobe and Wade could? Why couldn't he win with a 4x DPOY in Ben Wallace?

[ELITEpower23]

if you gave MJ kyrie and love from the jump they'd be winning... and always favorites.

Jordan wouldnt be shook of iggy dray or pretty boy splash bros. He'd score at will.

Who is playing defense? MJ needed all the defensive help he could get. Pippen is Kyrie but with elite defense. Rodman, Harper, Grant, all great defenders. MJ would suffer more 1st round failures without Daddy Pippen.

[Duncan21formvp]

Who is playing defense? MJ needed all the defensive help he could get. Pippen is Kyrie but with elite defense. Rodman, Harper, Grant, all great defenders. MJ would suffer more 1st round failures without Daddy Pippen.

Lebron couldn't win without a 4x DPOY in Ben Wallace

[tpols]

Who is playing defense? MJ needed all the defensive help he could get. Pippen is Kyrie but with elite defense. Rodman, Harper, Grant, all great defenders. MJ would suffer more 1st round failures without Daddy Pippen.

tristan thompson and richard jefferson were still very good defenders. Lebron a supposedly great defender, and kyrie Love both slightly above average according to every legitemate stat.

:confusedshrug:

this thread is about MJ against GSW though, not Cleveland.

He would roast the cavs with ease.

:lol

[3ball]

Who is playing defense? MJ needed all the defensive help he could get. Pippen is Kyrie but with elite defense. Rodman, Harper, Grant, all great defenders. MJ would suffer more 1st round failures without Daddy Pippen.

Lebron always had more rim protection, more rebounders and more athletic guards than mj.. but he simply couldn't light that fire under them or establish an accountable culture, or set the defensive example like MJ did

[light]

If he was in the same situation as LeBron James. So what happens if you replace LBJ with MJ??

Hell no. They wouldn't even make it past the 1st round.

[Roundball_Rock]

What evidence from MJ's career do we have of him winning with teams like that?

[Duncan21formvp]

What evidence from MJ's career do we have of him winning with teams like that?

None because he never had a team with 2 other guys that made the allstar team. Lebron was getting smoked in series with 2 other stars on the team. He was even to a career loser in Dwight Howard with HCA when he was in his peak.

[Roundball_Rock]

And Pippen cost MJ a 3-peat from 88-90'... Piston-killer Worthy or Magic-killer KJ would easily 3-peat with MJ from 88-90'

:lol at the Worthy, KJ hype. Pippen scored as much as them (more as a #1 option than they did as #1 options) and he crushed them defensively. Moreover, Worthy was done after 92' and KJ injury prone after 92' (plus he choked the one time he made the finals). It is laughable to say MJ would have won more rings with them than with Pippen whose prime aligned perfectly with MJ's and was durable.

Worthy and Pippen both inherited 57-58 win finals teams with a legend who retired at the last minute; the Bulls played at a 58 win pace with Pippen (33 win pace without him),the Lakers a 43 win pace with Worthy (44 win pace without him).

MJ stans will mention any random perimeter player but when you look under the hood you find they scored about the same as Pippen and less when you compare them as #1 options to Pippen as a #1 option. The only real exceptions are Wilkins (who wouldn't work with MJ because there is only one ball and Wilkins is useless if he isn't volume scoring) and Drexler (who scored 23.3 PPG in his prime versus Pippen's 20.0 PPG, although the gap is closer as #1 options). Scoring is the one leg to stand on since Pippen will outproduce these guys easily in other facets of the game.

[BigKobeFan]

Even kobe can

[Lebron23]

Likely got eliminated in the conference finals in 2017. Got eliminated in the first round of the playoffs in 2018.

[Bronbron23]

If he was in the same situation as LeBron James. So what happens if you replace LBJ with MJ??

maybe its hard to say. The rockets with old ass cp had the warriors beat so no reason why mj with a half decent squad wouldn't have a chance.

[NBAGOAT]

yes and no. 2017 is possible but I still favor the warriors. I dont see it for 2018 with that below average roster. rockets had harden cp3 and other contributors who were better than just role players. Not even sure 96-97 mj is better than 17-18 bron but open to it and think most here feel that way.

[Bronbron23]

yes and no. 2017 is possible but I still favor the warriors. I dont see it for 2018 with that below average roster. rockets had harden cp3 and other contributors who were better than just role players. Not even sure 96-97 mj is better than 17-18 bron but open to it and think most here feel that way.

Yeah 17 would be more likely than 18. I agree with not knowing if 96-97 mj was better than 18 bron. I think mj's main advantage though was his ability to play more off ball than bron while still having a similar impact.

[NBAGOAT]

Yeah 17 would be more likely than 18. I agree with not knowing if 96-97 mj was better than 18 bron. I think mj's main advantage though was his ability to play more off ball than bron while still having a similar impact.

Definitely willing to concede that. On the other hand does Kyrie score 29 when mjs putting up more shots while maybe scoring 40ppg and setting him up less.

I just think it’s a lot to ask for, gs was a juggernaut. It’s easy to say mj always won but are we sure for example the 96-97 bulls could beat a Malone/grant hill/Reggie Miller/mutombo team up and I’m only slightly exaggerating when I say that’s comparable to the warriors

[HoopsNY]

It's a good question. One area that I think gives MJ on the Cavs in 2017 a chance is that he can change the outcome of a game defensively. Jordan at 32 was significantly better defensively than LeBron at 32.

Since Klay/Steph pose more of an offensive threat, the matchups favor MJ given that he would ultimately guard both of them (as opposed to having to guard Draymond, for example), for the majority of the time that he would be on the floor. For that reason, I think they have a chance and the series goes 7 games.

2018, though, Jordan and the Cavs would have no chance. It's like putting him against the mid 80s Celtics all over again, which wouldn't result in anything more than high scoring and no victories.

[Bronbron23]

Definitely willing to concede that. On the other hand does Kyrie score 29 when mjs putting up more shots while maybe scoring 40ppg and setting him up less.

I just think it’s a lot to ask for, gs was a juggernaut. It’s easy to say mj always won but are we sure for example the 96-97 bulls could beat a Malone/grant hill/Reggie Miller/mutombo team up and I’m only slightly exaggerating when I say that’s comparable to the warriors

I think they could. 96-97 bulls were a great defensive team and thats how you can beat the warriors. Thats how rockets almost beat them and they weren't as good defensively as the bulls. Plus bulls just match up perfectly with warriors defensively. Pip on kd, mj on klay, harper on steph and rod on green. Theyd give the warriors fits defensively.

Mj on cle is a different story. Not sure how that plays out. You brought up if mj and kyrie could work and im really not sure. I never thought harden and cp would work though and that worked just fine. Its hard to say tbh

[NBAGOAT]

I think they could. 96-97 bulls were a great defensive team and thats how you can beat the warriors. Thats how rockets almost beat them and they weren't as good defensively as the bulls. Plus bulls just match up perfectly with warriors defensively. Pip on kd, mj on klay, harper on steph and rod on green. Theyd give the warriors fits defensively.

Mj on cle is a different story. Not sure how that plays out. You brought up if mj and kyrie could work and im really not sure. I never thought harden and cp would work though and that worked just fine. Its hard to say tbh

I’m sure it would work just not sure it’s optimal for Kyrie to put up big scoring numbers. Maybe not even as optimal as lebron/Kyrie. Tbf as someone else says no question mj is better defensively than bron those years and that matters.

Don’t think he does anything like completely shut down curry or klay however. the warriors are too good at forcing switches away from people and forcing defenses to play 5 on 5 instead of 1 on 1 with their firepower and movement.

Kyrie obviously would score the most if he was the clear 1st option which he wouldn’t be and scoring is his value. We’ll see how he does playing along kd next year on a team with other ball handling scorers.

Agree bulls have a decent chance but as you said the bulls are better than the cavs too. That’s why I brought up a Malone/ hill/miller/mutombo hypothetical. I think bulls going up against that type of superteam is similar to cavs going up against the warriors

[light]

No version of Michael Jordan can even make the Finals with any of LeBron's Cavs teams.

[Axe]

Likely got eliminated in the conference finals in 2017. Got eliminated in the first round of the playoffs in 2018.
Ofc he never won without pippen right

[999Guy]

yes and no. 2017 is possible but I still favor the warriors. I dont see it for 2018 with that below average roster. rockets had harden cp3 and other contributors who were better than just role players. Not even sure 96-97 mj is better than 17-18 bron but open to it and think most here feel that way.

Warriors did 122 ORTG. LeBron was already godly offensively. Jordan replacing him isn’t doing shit.

Cleveland had two and half good defenders on a roster against the GOAT offense. You people are nuts.

[Axe]

Warriors did 122 ORTG. LeBron was already godly offensively. Jordan replacing him isn’t doing shit.

Cleveland had two and half good defenders on a roster against the GOAT offense. You people are nuts.
You think so yet lue is a fukking scrub coach, silly.

Otherwise, they wouldn't have been 1-8 against the revamped dubs with kd.

[AirBonner]

MJ would reduce Kyrie like he reduced BJ Armstrong

[NBAGOAT]

Warriors did 122 ORTG. LeBron was already godly offensively. Jordan replacing him isn’t doing shit.

Cleveland had two and half good defenders on a roster against the GOAT offense. You people are nuts.

yes but jordan might have a bit of an impact defensively. the warriors putting up only a 120 could be enough to switch game 3. I favor gs ofc but it's not impossible

[kawhileonard2]

No version of Michael Jordan can even make the Finals with any of LeBron's Cavs teams.

Kawhi would have won titles with the Cavs 2015-2018.

[AirBonner]

Kawhi would have won titles with the Cavs 2015-2018.

Troll. Explain how averaging less points, assists and rebounds would somehow get the job done? We are waiting