18 prime years = 3 rings?

[LAL]

Is that a good thing? How should i view this when ranking lebron james, i have a negative opinion about it when comparing to other all time greats.. but maybe you guys can help me out because i'm confused about this.

[Bronbron23]

Is that a good thing? How should i view this when ranking lebron james, i have a negative opinion about it when comparing to other all time greats.. but maybe you guys can help me out because i'm confused about this.

Yeah this is why a made a thread awhile back asking if lebrons insane longevity could hurt him in the long run. Stat totals and runner ups dont mean shit. All i wanna know is How much did you dominate the competition and many chips do have. To me bron has lost way to much and theres to many times where he didn't dominate his competition. That said at very least hes in the top 7 all time.

[LAL]

Yeah this is why a made a thread awhile back asking if lebrons insane longevity could hurt him in the long run. Stat totals and runner ups dont mean shit. All i wanna know is How much did you dominate the competition and many chips do have. To me bron has lost way to much and theres to many times where he didn't dominate his competition. That said at very least hes in the top 7 all time.

I've noticed that we often think alike.

[Nowitness]

How many players in NBA history were the best players on 3 or more title teams?

[LAL]

How many players in NBA history were the best players on 3 or more title teams?

That's enough to put him over players who were also dominant and won more? If DWade was allowed to win fmvp in 11, you would've been happy with lebon's 4 rings.
Many fans wished they could see what they're favourite players would've done with 18 prime years, 18 years of showcasing your "dominance".

[Nowitness]

That's enough to put him over players who were also dominant and won more? If DWade was allowed to win fmvp in 11, you would've been happy with lebon's 4 rings.
Many fans wished they could see what they're favourite players would've done with 18 prime years, 18 years of showcasing your "dominance".

Seeing as you couldn’t answer it I will. MJ, Magic, Bird, Duncan, Shaq. That is the list. So instantly he is up there with them.

If we then break it down based on help, opponents, rules, stats, accolades and longevity LeBron comes out second behind MJ and at worst third. The fact people’s favourite players decline after 10 seasons be wise they didn’t have the drive and ability of LeBron hurts their legacy. Imagine needing 5 years of rest in your career to win and then claiming LeBron playing 102 games a year for 13 seasons somehow hurts his legacy.

He has showcased his ability, he was the best player on 3 champions and the best player in 6 NBA finals.

[Bronbron23]

I've noticed that we often think alike.

Yeah noticed that too. How does it feel having bron on the lakers? My buddy is a lakers fan. He loved kobe and hated bron. Hes so conflicted these days lol

[Bronbron23]

How many players in NBA history were the best players on 3 or more title teams?

thats irrelevant honestly. Any great could join up with one of the best gurds and foward in the league and do the same.

[LAL]

Yeah noticed that too. How does it feel having bron on the lakers? My buddy is a lakers fan. He loved kobe and hated bron. Hes so conflicted these days lol

It's weird, Kobe was worth waking up for at 4:30 am (europe). I hate lebron on the lakers but it's all good i guess, not like i'm from LA, i would've been livid.

[LAL]

Seeing as you couldn’t answer it I will. MJ, Magic, Bird, Duncan, Shaq. That is the list. So instantly he is up there with them.

If we then break it down based on help, opponents, rules, stats, accolades and longevity LeBron comes out second behind MJ and at worst third. The fact people’s favourite players decline after 10 seasons be wise they didn’t have the drive and ability of LeBron hurts their legacy. Imagine needing 5 years of rest in your career to win and then claiming LeBron playing 102 games a year for 13 seasons somehow hurts his legacy.

He has showcased his ability, he was the best player on 3 champions and the best player in 6 NBA finals.
You just decided that :oldlol:

He will always have the best stats, doesn't mean best player.

[Bronbron23]

It's weird, Kobe was worth waking up for at 4:30 am (europe). I hate lebron on the lakers but it's all good i guess, not like i'm from LA, i would've been livid.

Haha yeah true. You guys definitely have a shot this year. If lakers and clips make the wcf its gonna be a crazy series. Cant wait.

[aj1987]

thats irrelevant honestly. Any great could join up with one of the best gurds and foward in the league and do the same.

:roll: :roll:

If being the best player is irrelevant, do you have Sam Jones and Hondo over MJ?

[Jamal23]

How many players in NBA history were the best players on 3 or more title teams?
Jordan
LeBron
Magic
Bird
Kobe
Duncan
Russell

That's it I don't get why LeBron gets scrutinized for "only having 3 championships" when he has won the same or more as the best player than any player in NBA history minus Jordan

Kareem only won twice as the best player on his team in 20 seasons and never gets criticized yet people still have him as the GOAT

[Nowitness]

:roll: :roll:

If being the best player is irrelevant, do you have Sam Jones and Hondo over MJ?

Exactly!

Wade and Bosh combined for like 27 points in the 2012 playoffs, but because in 2006 they were good automatically that means LeBron had great help.

Go watch the games, Wade and Bosh were playing like Jamal Murray and Paul Millsap

[Nowitness]

Jordan
LeBron
Magic
Bird
Kobe
Duncan
Russell

That's it I don't get why LeBron gets scrutinized for "only having 3 championships" when he has won the same or more as the best player than any player in NBA history minus Jordan

100% right. To diminish being the best player on 3 champions (not to mention best player in another 3 finals and 6 finals teams) is absurd.

[Hey Yo]

Is that a good thing? How should i view this when ranking lebron james, i have a negative opinion about it when comparing to other all time greats.. but maybe you guys can help me out because i'm confused about this.
If you have a negative opinion about LeBrons 3 in 18yrs, then your opinion about Kobe's 2 in 20yrs must really be bad.

[aj1987]

Exactly!

Wade and Bosh combined for like 27 points in the 2012 playoffs, but because in 2006 they were good automatically that means LeBron had great help.

Go watch the games, Wade and Bosh were playing like Jamal Murray and Paul Millsap

You mean '13?

For all the shit LeBron gets for the '11 Finals (rightfully), Bosh was complete garbage as well. Wade was pretty much injured every single season after '11. Bosh even missed significant time in '12.

[Nowitness]

You mean '13?

For all the shit LeBron gets for the '11 Finals (rightfully), Bosh was complete garbage as well. Wade was pretty much injured every single season after '11. Bosh even missed significant time in '12.

Yeah sorry 12-13 meant to say. To act as if it was star studded help shows these clowns are just going by name reputation.

[SouBeachTalents]

Seeing as you couldn’t answer it I will. MJ, Magic, Bird, Duncan, Shaq. That is the list. So instantly he is up there with them.

If we then break it down based on help, opponents, rules, stats, accolades and longevity LeBron comes out second behind MJ and at worst third. The fact people’s favourite players decline after 10 seasons be wise they didn’t have the drive and ability of LeBron hurts their legacy. Imagine needing 5 years of rest in your career to win and then claiming LeBron playing 102 games a year for 13 seasons somehow hurts his legacy.

He has showcased his ability, he was the best player on 3 champions and the best player in 6 NBA finals.
It's not only that, literally nobody has won more titles than LeBron since he's entered the league. He has the most combined titles/FMVP's since being drafted 17 years ago

[LAL]

Haha yeah true. You guys definitely have a shot this year. If lakers and clips make the wcf its gonna be a crazy series. Cant wait.

All i know is Kawhi's a beast lol

[LAL]

If you have a negative opinion about LeBrons 3 in 18yrs, then your opinion about Kobe's 2 in 20yrs must really be bad.

Prime years, high level player, starter minutes, pre achilles. He was a beast in those 13 prime years, won more while being the dominant player he was.

[Rico2016]

Not a bad question to ask. Let's see how we can judge the success of 3 Finals MVPs in the difficult, modern, legal zone defense era. Zone defense was illegal until 2004 meaning, you could not double team someone until 2004.

Modern era (zone defense now legal)
LBJ: 3
KD: 2
Kawhi: 2

#1, not bad there. How about if we even include the weaker eras too? Who has led the most teams to a ring.

MJ: 6
LBJ: 3
Shaq: 3

So just 2nd most all time if you include weaker eras. To recap, LBJ is #1 all time in modern, legal defense era and #2 all time if you include weak eras too. Should we move to stats next? :D

[Nowitness]

Prime years, high level player, starter minutes, pre achilles. He was a beast in those 13 prime years, won more while being the dominant player he was.

He wasn’t tho was he. ‘Prime years’ he missed the playoffs once and was a first round exit 2 other times. Was the best player in the league 2 seasons at most, LeBron has been the best player 6 times, Kobe was the man for 3 finalists, LeBron 9.

Even if Kobe had a late career surge (which resulted in nothing but a second round sweep post titles) it isn’t close to being the MVP in year 17 like LeBron

[Hey Yo]

Prime years, high level player, starter minutes, pre achilles. He was a beast in those 13 prime years, won more while being the dominant player he was.
Which years you using, cause he was named to the all-star team in 1998 and then 2000-16. That's 18yrs right there.

How was LeBron in his prime as a rookie buy Kobe wasn't? They were both the same age entering the league.

[PP34Deuce]

What is the OP trying to say? I'm confused.

Lebron is not top 3... most people have him 5-7.

[dbugz]

-3 rings only (1 saved by kyrie, one saved by Ray, one is a shortened season)
-3/9 (this is not even 50% :facepalm )
-always asking for help
-was on the weak eastern conference (got exposed right away when he moved to the west, no playoffs appearance)
-having paul pierce as your greatest rival


you tell me, is that goat worthy? having only 3 rings alone already knock him out on the top 5 goat list.

He's at top 11 at best. Deal with it!

[Rico2016]

Are we talkng before or after zone defense was legal? Primitive or modern era?

[LAL]

Which years you using, cause he was named to the all-star team in 1998 and then 2000-16. That's 18yrs right there.

How was LeBron in his prime as a rookie buy Kobe wasn't? They were both the same age entering the league.

High level + starter minutes, lebron had his very own system from day one to showcase his high level of play, 18 years. MJ, starter minutes + high level of play, 13 years.
Maybe prime isn't the word?

[Rico2016]

High level + starter minutes, lebron had his very own system from day one to showcase his high level of play, 18 years. MJ, starter minutes + high level of play, 13 years.
Maybe prime isn't the word?

Ability to start (better player)

LeBron has had a better ability over Kobe since forever

[Lebron23]

It's only his 17th season. 4x mvp, and 3x finals mvp. You Kobetards are a disgrace to Kobe's fans club. Even his last tweet he congratulated LeBron.

[LAL]

Ability to start (better player)

LeBron has had a better ability over Kobe since forever

High school Kobe was already more polished skill wise than 2020 Lebron

[Lebron23]

High school Kobe was already more polished skill wise than 2020 Lebron

No, You're just an idiot.

[Rico2016]

High school Kobe was already more polished skill wise than 2020 Lebron

Stop playing.

[Manny98]

"18 prime years"

So you're telling me LeBron was in his prime when he was 18 years old :lol

[Nowitness]

High level + starter minutes, lebron had his very own system from day one to showcase his high level of play, 18 years. MJ, starter minutes + high level of play, 13 years.
Maybe prime isn't the word?

Imagine if LeBron was ever outscored in a season on his own team by Robert Horry and Cedric Ceballos.

Apparently Kobe is one of the greatest scorers ever but couldn’t even lead his own team in scoring till he was 26.

It is exactly his fault his prime was shorter than LeBrons, had LeBron been drafted in 1996 he’d have at the very least been starting.

His injuries resulted entirely from having to make up for his lack of ability through risky gambles and plays. Shooting 27 foot fade-aways whilst double teamed 20 times a night will break down your body.

[Rico2016]

It's only his 17th season. 4x mvp, and 3x finals mvp. You Kobetards are a disgrace to Kobe's fans club. Even his last tweet he congratulated LeBron.

LEGAL ZONE ERA (Modern defense)
•7x LeBron (4x MVP, 3x FMVP)
•3x Durant (1x MVP, 2x FMVP)
•2x Kawhi (0x MVP, 2x FMVP)
•2x Curry (2x MVP, 0x FMVP)
•2x Dirk (1x MVP, 1x FMVP)

Looks like they have some catching up to do

[LAL]

"18 prime years"

So you're telling me LeBron was in his prime when he was 18 years old :lol

My criteria is if the player good was enough to lead a team to a championships and how many he won in those years, forget teammates and stuff, i'm talking individual greatness.

[LAL]

Imagine if LeBron was ever outscored in a season on his own team by Robert Horry and Cedric Ceballos.

Apparently Kobe is one of the greatest scorers ever but couldn’t even lead his own team in scoring till he was 26.

It is exactly his fault his prime was shorter than LeBrons, had LeBron been drafted in 1996 he’d have at the very least been starting.

His injuries resulted entirely from having to make up for his lack of ability through risky gambles and plays. Shooting 27 foot fade-aways whilst double teamed 20 times a night will break down your body.

My criteria is if the player good was enough to lead a team to a championships and how many he won in those years, forget teammates and stuff, i'm talking individual greatness.

[Hey Yo]

High level + starter minutes, lebron had his very own system from day one to showcase his high level of play, 18 years. MJ, starter minutes + high level of play, 13 years.
Maybe prime isn't the word?
Kobe could have showcased his skills from day 1 if he would have let the Nets draft him, instead of ring chasing in LA.

LeBron wanted to be a starter his rookie year. Kobe chose not to and was fine coming off the bench his first 2yrs.

[Rico2016]

High school Kobe was already more polished skill wise than 2020 Lebron

Really? Have you looked at his early year playoff stats? I dont mean to startle you but here it is

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1998-nba-western-conference-finals-lakers-vs-jazz.html

10-2-1 on .367% FG

[Nowitness]

My criteria is if the player good was enough to lead a team to a championships and how many he won in those years, forget teammates and stuff, i'm talking individual greatness.

In which case as demonstrated above only Jordan has lead more teams to a title as the best player than LeBron, so what are you arguing?

[Real14]

It's not good enough to be top 10. Not at all.

[Rico2016]

Side question, why did Kobe win 1 MVP in 20 years?

[Real14]

Side question, why did Kobe win 1 MVP in 20 years?

Kobe wasn't always the best on his team. Lebron was always the best on his team and became a great underachiever. Lebron had way more opportunities and choked.

[SouBeachTalents]

My criteria is if the player good was enough to lead a team to a championships and how many he won in those years, forget teammates and stuff, i'm talking individual greatness.
You're not talking about individual greatness, you're literally talking about championships aka team accomplishments

[Manny98]

My criteria is if the player good was enough to lead a team to a championships and how many he won in those years, forget teammates and stuff, i'm talking individual greatness.
LeBrons prime years were from 09-2018

In that span he's won 4 MVPs 3 championships 3 FMVPs and has gotten to the finals 8 years out of 10 and has had some of the greatest playoff runs in NBA history

How many players have accomplished more in that time span because I'm struggling to think of any outside of MJ

[Real14]

He made the finals mainly because he was in the leastern conference.

[Replay32]

So Lebron has been in his prime since his rookie year? :oldlol:

[Real14]

So Lebron has been in his prime since his rookie year? :oldlol:

Since his 4th year, maybe even 3rd year.

[LAL]

LeBrons prime years were from 09-2018

In that span he's won 4 MVPs 3 championships 3 FMVPs and has gotten to the finals 8 years out of 10 and has had some of the greatest playoff runs in NBA history

How many players have accomplished more in that time span because I'm struggling to think of any outside of MJ

Kobe from 01 to 10, Magic from 80 to 90, Bird from 80 to 88 etc, but i don't have to explain right? Lebron had 18 healthy seasons playing starter minutes, showcasing greatness like others, you guys claim, but 3 rings? Many oppurtunities

[Bronbron23]

:roll: :roll:

If being the best player is irrelevant, do you have Sam Jones and Hondo over MJ?

Him being the best player isnt irrelevant. Him being the best player for 3 different teams is irrelevant when comparing him to players who were the best player on one team.

[Manny98]

Kobe from 01 to 10, Magic from 80 to 90, Bird from 80 to 88 etc, but i don't have to explain right? Lebron had 18 healthy seasons playing starter minutes, showcasing greatness like others, you guys claim, but 3 rings? Many oppurtunities
Kobe from 01-10

2 championships as the best player
1 MVP
3 finals appearances as the team's best player
8 NBA 1st team selections

LeBron from 09-18

3 championships as the best player
4 MVPs
8 finals appearances as the teams best player
10 NBA 1st team selections
2 time DPOY runner up

I fail to see how Kobe or Bird accomplished more, Magic is debatable although LeBron won more MVPs and has a more impressive statistical output

[LAL]

Kobe from 01-10

2 championships as the best player
1 MVP
3 finals appearances as the team's best player
8 NBA 1st team selections

LeBron from 09-18

3 championships as the best player
4 MVPs
8 finals appearances as the teams best player
10 NBA 1st team selections
2 time DPOY runner up

I fail to see how Kobe or Bird accomplished more, Magic is debatable although LeBron won more MVPs and has a more impressive statistical output

:oldlol::oldlol:

Downplaying Kobe's 4/6 in the Western Conference, no mention of his all defensive teams and ofcourse "2 TiMeS DpOy RuNnEr Up" "NoT ThE BeSt PlAyEr"

Not the best stats you mean, but that's not the point, my criteria is if the player good was enough to lead a team to a championship and how many he won in those years, forget great teammates, systems, situations and stuff, i'm talking individual greatness, healthy, amount of oppurtunities.
Kobe was great with and without shaq, what was Kobe in his prime supposed to do with shaq? Lose? No, dominate and then shut people up when he won it without shaq. 18 years, 3 rings

[SouBeachTalents]

my criteria is if the player good was enough to lead a team to a championship and how many he won in those years, forget great teammates, systems, situations and stuff, i'm talking individual greatness
So when talking about championships forget about great teammates and situations, you know the things that heavily influence if you win a championship :lol

[Manny98]

:oldlol::oldlol:

Downplaying Kobe's 4/6 in the Western Conference, no mention of his all defensive teams and ofcourse "2 TiMeS DpOy RuNnEr Up" "NoT ThE BeSt PlAyEr"

Not the best stats you mean, but that's not the point, my criteria is if the player good was enough to lead a team to a championship and how many he won in those years, forget great teammates, systems, situations and stuff, i'm talking individual greatness, healthy, amount of oppurtunities.
Kobe was great with and without shaq, what was Kobe in his prime supposed to do with shaq? Lose? No, dominate and then shut people up when he won it without shaq. 18 years, 3 rings
Based on your own stupid criteria LeBron is ahead of Kobe because he has LEAD his team to a championship more times than he has :facepalm

And lol at completely disregarding players supporting casts. Do you really think Jordan or Kobe would have won in 2018 or 2015 with LeBrons supporting cast

[LAL]

So when talking about championships forget about great teammates and situations, you know the things that heavily influence if you win a championship :lol
18 years, no help?

Based on your own stupid criteria LeBron is ahead of Kobe because he has LEAD his team to a championship more times than he has :facepalm

And lol at completely disregarding players supporting casts. Do you really think Jordan or Kobe would have won in 2018 or 2015 with LeBrons supporting cast
18 years, 3 rings bro

[dbugz]

Kobe > libron

common knowledge

these delusional libron fans :facepalm

[Manny98]

18 years, no help?

18 years, 3 rings bro

3 rings as the best player whilst taking down some of the greatest teams ever assembled.

Not bad :applause:

Only MJ and Magic have won more as the best player and MJ never faced the competition that LeBron had to play in the finals and Magic is inferior to LeBron in peak play and stats

[SouBeachTalents]

18 years, no help?

18 years, 3 rings bro
You're so engrossed in your anti-LeBron agenda I don't think you even realize what you're arguing anymore. You're trying to claim that it would've been better for LeBron to either decline or get injured after 2016, rather than continue to play at a BITW caliber for several more years after that. You're legitimately trying to argue that it's a detriment for a player to have more elite seasons :lol

I wonder if there are people on a football message board right now trying to argue that Jerry Rice only won 3 Super Bowls in 20 years

[Rico2016]

You're so engrossed in your anti-LeBron agenda I don't think you even realize what you're arguing anymore. You're trying to claim that it would've been better for LeBron to either decline or get injured after 2016, rather than continuing to play at a BITW caliber for several more years after that. You're legitimately trying to argue that it's a detriment for a player to have more elite seasons :lol

I wonder if there are people on a football message board trying to argue that Jerry Rice only has 3 Super Bowls in 20 years

Gottem

https://media.giphy.com/media/24ir3sVMa0kfK/giphy.gif

[light]

Have you ever used an inflation calculator? Where you put in an amount and it calculates the equivalent value of the U.S. dollar from any year in the past?

There is also a ring value calculator.

All rings are not created equal.

E.g. taking a bad team to the finals and losing against a more loaded team (2018 Cavs vs Warriors) can be much more impressive than taking a really good team to the finals and winning against a much weaker team (1992 Bulls vs Blazers).

So, roughly, it comes down to something like this:

LeBron 2007 = 1 Jordan ring
LeBron 2018 = 1 Jordan ring
LeBron 2012 = 1.5 Jordan rings
LeBron 2013 = 1.5 Jordan rings
LeBron 2016 = 3 Jordan rings

So as you can see, after weighting the difficulty level of the experiences, LeBron actually has the equivalent of 8 Jordan rings.

Hope that helps!

[Rico2016]

Have you ever used an inflation calculator? Where you put in an amount and it calculates the equivalent value of the U.S. dollar from any year in the past?

There is also a ring value calculator.

All rings are not created equal.

E.g. taking a bad team to the finals and losing against a more loaded team (2018 Cavs vs Warriors) can be much more impressive than taking a really good team to the finals and winning against a much weaker team (1992 Bulls vs Blazers).

So, roughly, it comes down to something like this:

LeBron 2007 = 1 Jordan ring
LeBron 2018 = 1 Jordan ring
LeBron 2012 = 1.5 Jordan rings
LeBron 2013 = 1.5 Jordan rings
LeBron 2016 = 3 Jordan rings

So as you can see, after weighting the difficulty level of the experiences, LeBron actually has the equivalent of 8 Jordan rings.

Hope that helps!

And this equation is accounting for a 93 MJ ring, most likely his only "true" ring.

If we use a weighted system to include the value of his 91, 92, 96, 97, 98 MJ rings then we find it becomes more likely 9 or 10 for LeBron.

[3ball]

How many players in NBA history were the best players on 3 or more title teams?

He took the longest to win 3...

And he skipped team development by landing on teams favored to win in year 1 (11', 15') - only Magic and Lebron landed on teams favored to win in Year 1, except Magic won more rings

[Axe]

Bran never 3-peated, something that kobe and mj achieved in their respective careers.

[dbugz]

3/9

not even 50% winning in the finals? :facepalm

if you are the greatest ever? will you ever let that happen? :facepalm

[LAL]

You're so engrossed in your anti-LeBron agenda I don't think you even realize what you're arguing anymore. You're trying to claim that it would've been better for LeBron to either decline or get injured after 2016, rather than continue to play at a BITW caliber for several more years after that. You're legitimately trying to argue that it's a detriment for a player to have more elite seasons :lol

I wonder if there are people on a football message board right now trying to argue that Jerry Rice only won 3 Super Bowls in 20 years

No you don't understand, winning rings is good, congrats to him.
I'm comparing him with other all time greats and the amount of oppurtunities this dude needs.. i mean, at some point....... you know?

[Turbo Slayer]

3/9 is a horrible take like 1/9 is.

Player does not equate to team.

So actually the Cleveland Cavaliers are 1-3 against the Warriors and the Heat are 1-1 against the Spurs and 1-0 against the Thunder, and 0-1 against the Mavs.

Rings are a team accomplishments. Don't get why people fail to believe that.

[Turbo Slayer]

Rings are a team accomplishment. Don't get why people fail to believe that.


For 2011: inexcusable, the Heat at that point were a historically stacked team (better SRS and 1st of all teams in SRS) and they failed to win against Mavs (lower SRS).

For 2012: The Heat were equally stacked with the Thunder. The Heat actually had a LOWER SRS in the season. Heat (5.72) VS Thunder (6.44)

For 2013: Surprisingly the Spurs vs Heat were roughly equal in SRS. Heat (7.03) vs Spurs (6.67). It was a competitive series like the Thunder was in some games.

For 2014: The Heat clearly regressed only winning 12 less games. (54). The Spurs had a historically great PO run too. The Heat and Spurs SRS. Heat (4.15) vs Spurs (8.00). The Heat had a injured Wade sitting out 1/3 of the RS and the Spurs core was intact and healthy so that may be the reason the Heat regressed.

For 2015: The Cavs had a rough start only winning 14 games out of 23 games (4 game losing streak in the middle of it) while GSW won 21 games out of 23 games in the early stages of the season.

Cavs and GSW SRS. Cavaliers (4.08) vs GSW (10.01). Combine that fact that Cavaliers were missing 2 of their best players in the Finals the Cavs were clearly outmatched.

For 2016: Kyrie had a rough start missing 28 games while GSW had their core healthy and intact. Cavs and GSW SRS. Cavaliers (5.45) vs GSW (10.38)

For 2017: Kevin Love missed 21 games and JR Smith missed 41 games. GSW core were fully intact and healthy once again. Cavs had a shit defense while GSW had a top 5 defense. Cavs and GSW SRS. Cavaliers (2.87) vs GSW (11.35)

For 2018: Don't need to explain it.

LeBron managed to beat 2 teams that had a better SRS in the season and beat 1 team that were rougly equal to the Heat's. Other than that (with the exception of the Mavs and Spurs in 2013) his teams were inferior from the start to the finish line.

[Stephonit]

Why the excuses for the poor regular season in comparison to preseason expectations? Having a poor regular season contrary to preseason expectations does not make one an underdog. It means he is either an underachiever or not as good as we think he is.

[LAL]

Rings are a team accomplishment. Don't get why people fail to believe that.


For 2011: inexcusable, the Heat at that point were a historically stacked team (better SRS and 1st of all teams in SRS) and they failed to win against Mavs (lower SRS).

For 2012: The Heat were equally stacked with the Thunder. The Heat actually had a LOWER SRS in the season. Heat (5.72) VS Thunder (6.44)

For 2013: Surprisingly the Spurs vs Heat were roughly equal in SRS. Heat (7.03) vs Spurs (6.67). It was a competitive series like the Thunder was in some games.

For 2014: The Heat clearly regressed only winning 12 less games. (54). The Spurs had a historically great PO run too. The Heat and Spurs SRS. Heat (4.15) vs Spurs (8.00). The Heat had a injured Wade sitting out 1/3 of the RS and the Spurs core was intact and healthy so that may be the reason the Heat regressed.

For 2015: The Cavs had a rough start only winning 14 games out of 23 games (4 game losing streak in the middle of it) while GSW won 21 games out of 23 games in the early stages of the season.

Cavs and GSW SRS. Cavaliers (4.08) vs GSW (10.01). Combine that fact that Cavaliers were missing 2 of their best players in the Finals the Cavs were clearly outmatched.

For 2016: Kyrie had a rough start missing 28 games while GSW had their core healthy and intact. Cavs and GSW SRS. Cavaliers (5.45) vs GSW (10.38)

For 2017: Kevin Love missed 21 games and JR Smith missed 41 games. GSW core were fully intact and healthy once again. Cavs had a shit defense while GSW had a top 5 defense. Cavs and GSW SRS. Cavaliers (2.87) vs GSW (11.35)

For 2018: Don't need to explain it.

LeBron managed to beat 2 teams that had a better SRS in the season and beat 1 team that were rougly equal to the Heat's. Other than that (with the exception of the Mavs and Spurs in 2013) his teams were inferior.
So much explanation and excuses since 2011, and to think he started all the way in 04.

[dbugz]

-3 rings only (1 saved by kyrie, one saved by Ray, one is a shortened season)
-3/9 (this is not even 50% :facepalm )
-always asking for help
-was on the weak eastern conference (got exposed right away when he moved to the west, no playoffs appearance)
-having paul pierce as your greatest rival


you tell me, is that goat worthy? having only 3 rings alone already knock him out on the top 5 goat list.

He's at top 11 at best. Deal with it!

anyone?

[RogueBorg]

How many players in NBA history were the best players on 3 or more title teams?

Who's the 3rd team?

[dazzer87]

3/9

not even 50% winning in the finals? :facepalm

if you are the greatest ever? will you ever let that happen? :facepalm

8 straights finals coming out of the bloody east tho......

[dbugz]

8 straights finals coming out of the bloody east tho......

paul pierce and derozan as his greatest rivals in the east :roll:

[Lebron23]

paul pierce and derozan as his greatest rivals in the east :roll:

Derozan is jordan in today's nba.

[RogueBorg]

18-31

[Turbo Slayer]

I know that you are a troll but I will respond knowing that you are likely to make a futile counterpart not addressing my points.


1 saved by kyrie LeBron is the 1st player IN NBA history to lead all teams in all statistical categories in the POs. Also LeBron dropped a 27 point triple double in Game 7. LeBron dropped 11 of his 27 points in 4th qtr of Game 7 of the 2016 Finals. He made almost of his FTs (missing only 1 FT). Fun fact: He would have outscored the ENTIRE Warriors team specifically in the 4th qtr if not for Livingston scoring 2 more points on FTs. (11 points (LeBron) VS 13 points). But hey Kyrie saved him on 1 shot right completely ignoring LeBron's three late in 4th qtr and FTs right? Ok.


one saved by Ray LeBron dropped 16 points on 64% FG and gave out 2 assists in the 4th qtr. So LeBron pretty combined for 20+ points in the 4th qtr including points and assists. You forget that 48 minutes exists in a NBA game and not every moment is the the final minutes of a 4th qtr.

But hey, Allen saved LeBron's legacy when Allen has been averaging 13 points the last 5 games prior to Game 6, right? Also Allen put ZERO points in Game 7. Also you forgot that Game 7 was left to play. LeBron put up 37 points and a dagger to end Game 7 once and for all. But hey Allen saved LeBron in Game 7. Ok. It's a team game and star players sometimes need a bench player to step up.


always asking for help I mean the goal is to win, right? No player is going ask for less help, idiot. In fact I'm pretty sure players want more help to boost the chances of winning championships. Only 1 team out of 30 teams can win a championship in the modern era. That's a low chance and I'm sure that players would want more help.

In fact championship and Finals teams are the most stacked teams of all.

I mean Magic couldn't win without Kareem, MJ couldn't win without Pippen and he won once Pippen developed into a co-star, Kobe couldn't win without Shaq and he didn't win championships as the man until Gasol came, and of course LeBron wouldn't win anything without Wade and Kyrie. So what? My point for every Batman there is a Robin and a good supporting cast for every championship team.


was on the weak eastern conference (got exposed right away when he moved to the west, no playoffs appearance)

For the 1st sentence: Well, last time I checked, EVERY team in the regular season follows the exact same schedule.

1. Each team has to play four games against the other four teams in their division (16 games in total)
2. Four games against six out-of-division conference teams (24 games in total)
3. Three games against the other four teams in the conference (12 games)
4. Two games against all teams in the opposing conference. (30 games)

The POs are a different matter of course but in the Regular season every team (doesn't matter if it is East team or West team they have to follow the schedule.).

Second sentence: The 2019 Lakers team was constructed horribly with too many playmakers and not enough shooters. So it is really no surprise once the Lakers followed the modern trend aka 3 point shooting the team succeeded as a whole. Also Ingram and Ball and LeBron suffered injuries that doomed them late in the RS where they desperately needed a playoff push.

[Turbo Slayer]

having paul pierce as your greatest rival Pointless since Thomas was MJ's greatest rival in the East by many and he is inferior to Pierce as a individual player. You are conveniently forgetting that basketball is a 5v5 sport not 1v1 anyways.

Anyway, no one uses rivals to rank someone higher than someone if we going to compare career individually so what's the point, I may add?

[dbugz]

I know that you are a troll but I will respond knowing that you are likely to make a futile counterpart not addressing my points.

LeBron is the 1st player IN NBA history to lead all teams in all statistical categories in the POs. Also LeBron dropped a 27 point triple double in Game 7. LeBron dropped 11 of his 27 points in 4th qtr of Game 7 of the 2016 Finals. He made almost of his FTs (missing only 1 FT). Fun fact: He would have outscored the ENTIRE Warriors team specifically in the 4th qtr if not for Livingston scoring 2 more points on FTs. (11 points (LeBron) VS 13 points). But hey Kyrie saved him on 1 shot right completely ignoring LeBron's three late in 4th qtr and FTs right? Ok.

LeBron dropped 16 points on 64% FG and gave out 2 assists in the 4th qtr. So LeBron pretty combined for 20+ points in the 4th qtr including points and assists. You forget that 48 minutes exists in a NBA game and not every moment is the the final minutes of a 4th qtr.

But hey, Allen saved LeBron's legacy when Allen has been averaging 13 points the last 5 games prior to Game 6, right? Also Allen put ZERO points in Game 7. Also you forgot that Game 7 was left to play. LeBron put up 37 points and a dagger to end Game 7 once and for all. But hey Allen saved LeBron in Game 7. Ok. It's a team game and star players sometimes need a bench player to step up.

I mean the goal is to win, right? No player is going ask for less help, idiot. In fact I'm pretty sure players want more help to boost the chances of winning championships. Only 1 team out of 30 teams can win a championship in the modern era. That's a low chance and I'm sure that players would want more help.

In fact championship and Finals teams are the most stacked teams of all.

I mean Magic couldn't win without Kareem, MJ couldn't win without Pippen and he won once Pippen developed into a co-star, Kobe couldn't win without Shaq and he didn't win championships as the man until Gasol came, and of course LeBron wouldn't win anything without Wade and Kyrie. So what? My point for every Batman there is a Robin and a good supporting cast for every championship team.



For the 1st sentence: Well, last time I checked, EVERY team in the regular season follows the exact same schedule.

1. Each team has to play four games against the other four teams in their division (16 games in total)
2. Four games against six out-of-division conference teams (24 games in total)
3. Three games against the other four teams in the conference (12 games)
4. Two games against all teams in the opposing conference. (30 games)

The POs are a different matter of course but in the Regular season every team (doesn't matter if it is East team or West team they have to follow the schedule.).

Second sentence: The 2019 Lakers team was constructed horribly with too many playmakers and not enough shooters. So it is really no surprise once the Lakers followed the modern trend aka 3 point shooting the team succeeded as a whole. Also Ingram and Ball and LeBron suffered injuries that doomed them late in the RS where they desperately needed a playoff push.

https://media.giphy.com/media/vk7VesvyZEwuI/200_d.gif

goal is to win?

6/6 > 3/9

[Turbo Slayer]

I mean Paul Pierce and the Celtics was consistently losing in the POs 4 times before he teamed up with Allen and Garnett in 2008 (you know actual good help surrounding him).

[Roundball_Rock]

How many players in NBA history were the best players on 3 or more title teams?

Exactly. It is a short list so odd that he is viewed as a "loser" by some.


Kareem only won twice as the best player on his team in 20 seasons and never gets criticized yet people still have him as the GOAT

Kareem and Magic were 1a/1b in 82' and 85'. People have a distorted view because of FMVP's. In 1982 Magic was FMVP but his 16/11/8 line is something LeBron would get crushed for posting. Kareem was 18/8/4 but actually played defense. Still, I would give it to Magic. In 84' Kareem did not win FMVP because Magic choked--bizarrely that has helped Magic's reputation as a result. In 85' Kareem won FMVP.

In MVP voting they were 8th and 10th in 82' and 2nd and 4th in 85'. So Magic was ahead both times but narrowly, despite being the NBA's golden child along with Bird. With the narrative wind at his back, prime Magic couldn't shake 36 and 38 year old KAJ in MVP voting.

[ELITEpower23]

Damn LBJ sucks, he is only tied for 2nd most FMVPs all time.

[Stephonit]

In 84' Kareem did not win FMVP because Magic choked--bizarrely that has helped Magic's reputation as a result.


From what I've noticed not that bizarre at all. Just look at how many times a certain player who was on a betting favorite in the preseason gets dubbed an "underdog" by his fans by leading that team to a mediocre record in the regular season and is then praised to the high heavens for performing as he would have been expected to in the preseason.

[Axe]

Damn LBJ sucks, he is only tied for 2nd most FMVPs all time.
At least he's got more fmvp than curry, dup.

[Roundball_Rock]

From what I've noticed not that bizarre at all. Just look at how many times a certain player who was on a betting favorite in the preseason gets dubbed an "underdog" by his fans by leading that team to a mediocre record in the regular season and is then praised to the high heavens for performing as he would have been expected to in the preseason.

To clarify, the benefit to Magic was not from losing per se but from Kareem being denied a FMVP. The whole "Magic was the man" thing is based on him winning 3 FMVP's to 1 for KAJ and 1 for Worthy in the 80's. This ignores Kareem getting robbed in 1980 after winning the original vote (CBS didn't want to give the award to an empty chair). You also have Kareem not winning in 84' because they lost due to Magic choking ("Tragic Johnson"). If the FMVP picture was Kareem 3, Magic 2, Worthy 1 the perception of Magic would be very different today.