Virginia to remove statue of traitor Robert E. Lee

[RRR3]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/03/us/live-george-floyd-protests-today.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&fbclid=IwAR0Kp7oz19POYnq_xatTXNUsTSOncbk_dObZCM338 1wwuARKS-XnXFzbIWE#link-4a5d6c6



Great move :applause:


We don’t tolerate traitors here in America!

[Stanley Kobrick]

:cheers:

[tpols]

what have you done for this country but bitch and moan mate?

[RRR3]

what have you done for this country but bitch and moan mate?
I’m not a traitor, at least.


Do you support traitors?

[Patrick Chewing]

So many snowflakes triggered by a statue of a man they probably have never heard about.

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

Good.

Statues are despicable.

[RRR3]

So many snowflakes triggered by a statue of a man they probably have never heard about.
Should we have statues of men who BETRAYED the United States of America?!!!! Don’t you love this country, Chewing?

[ThatCoolKid]

So many snowflakes triggered by a statue of a man they probably have never heard about.

Lol you think Robert E Lee is an obscure historical figure ? :lol read a book bro.

[Patrick Chewing]

Should we have statues of men who BETRAYED the United States of America?!!!! Don’t you love this country, Chewing?

Cancel culture hero here. The moment you disagree with something, you want to tear it down.


Liberals before you didn’t have a problem with these statues. Why do you snowflakes have a problem with it now?

[Patrick Chewing]

Lol you think Robert E Lee is an obscure historical figure ? :lol read a book bro.

Oh please, these children nowadays don’t know a goddamn thing.

[MMM]

Good.

Statues are despicable.

Yes!

[Whoah10115]

People here are obsessed with asterisks. Maybe these statues should remain, with asterisks. History is a matter of fact. At the least be put into a museum, which maybe should have happened before.

[The Iron Fist]

So many snowflakes triggered by a statue of a man they probably have never heard about.

Why are you worried about participation trophies?

[Lebron23]

General Lee was one of the greatest generals of all time. Germans still respects General Erwin Rommel. And i think Mr. Robert Lee married one of President Washington's step grand daughter. Lee was the hero for the south. He was the tony starks of the confederate army.

[Lakers Legend#32]

Chewing's in full Grumpy Old Man mode.

[bladefd]

I would not destroy his statue if one already exists. Lee was against secession. The only reason why he went through with it is because he felt it was his duty to defend his home state of Virginia so he did it out of his sense of personal honor. I honestly think he could have been convinced to fight for the union, but he could not get Virginia to budge. Virginia secession was the only reason why he didn't fight for the North because the fool felt it was his duty to defend his state. The fool didn't realize that he was supporting the losing side. South had no industrialization to sustain a war against the superior North.

Still, he put up a brilliant fight with what he had. I respect him, as did Lincoln and the northern generals, soldiers and the people he served with. Grant whooped him, but even he looked at Lee with respect and high regard.

I consider him someone who betrayed America, but he had an honorable reason. He even resigned honorably from the Union before he went to join the confederacy. After the war, he kept the peace and lived with honor in the United States. He was always about honor so I respect him. I wouldn't remove his statue.

[Whoah10115]

I would not destroy his statue if one already exists. Lee was against secession. The only reason why he went through with it is because he felt it was his duty to defend his home state of Virginia so he did it out of his sense of personal honor. I honestly think he could have been convinced to fight for the union, but he could not get Virginia to budge. Virginia secession was the only reason why he didn't fight for the North because the fool felt it was his duty to defend his state. The fool didn't realize that he was supporting the losing side. South had no industrialization to sustain a war against the superior North.

Still, he put up a brilliant fight with what he had. I respect him, as did Lincoln and the northern generals, soldiers and the people he served with. Grant whooped him, but even he looked at Lee with respect and high regard.

I consider him someone who betrayed America, but he had an honorable reason. He even resigned honorably from the Union before he went to join the confederacy. After the war, he kept the peace and lived with honor in the United States. He was always about honor so I respect him. I wouldn't remove his statue.

I don't think that everyone knows this, that he was heavily respected by both Grant and Lincoln.

But hey...begots.

[Derka]

Complicated guy. From my Yankee perspective...Lee was admirable in many respects, morally deficient in others.

The whole statues thing seems fairly meaningless to me. If you can only have statues of perfect human beings with no flaws, let's just be done with statues altogether.

[RRR3]

Cancel culture hero here. The moment you disagree with something, you want to tear it down.


Liberals before you didn’t have a problem with these statues. Why do you snowflakes have a problem with it now?
Yeah I disagree with betraying your country. Don’t you?

[Patrick Chewing]

I would not destroy his statue if one already exists. Lee was against secession. The only reason why he went through with it is because he felt it was his duty to defend his home state of Virginia so he did it out of his sense of personal honor. I honestly think he could have been convinced to fight for the union, but he could not get Virginia to budge. Virginia secession was the only reason why he didn't fight for the North because the fool felt it was his duty to defend his state. The fool didn't realize that he was supporting the losing side. South had no industrialization to sustain a war against the superior North.

Still, he put up a brilliant fight with what he had. I respect him, as did Lincoln and the northern generals, soldiers and the people he served with. Grant whooped him, but even he looked at Lee with respect and high regard.

I consider him someone who betrayed America, but he had an honorable reason. He even resigned honorably from the Union before he went to join the confederacy. After the war, he kept the peace and lived with honor in the United States. He was always about honor so I respect him. I wouldn't remove his statue.

Bravo, blade. Bravo. Finally something you and I can agree on. Lee was also crucial during the Mexican-American war when he fought for the United States.

[ROCSteady]

Just move all the Confederate statues to a museum and put down they violated the law of the Constitution

[RRR3]

Just move all the Confederate statues to a museum and put down they violated the law of the Constitution
They sure did. People like Lee have no respect for this great country of ours. And somehow we have people in this thread trying to act as if being a traitor isn’t that bad? Wtf? Don’t you guys love America?

[Patrick Chewing]

Yeah I disagree with betraying your country. Don’t you?

You need a history lesson on the Civil War.

[RRR3]

You need a history lesson on the Civil War.
Do go on. Are you saying the South weren’t traitors? Hard sell dude they betrayed their own nation and attacked their own country. Rats. Absolute rats.

[Lebron23]

One of his descendant hates him. His name is Robert Lee IV. Maybe RR3 is him. He kinda looks like him.

[Patrick Chewing]

One of his descendant hates him. His name is Robert Lee IV. Maybe RR3 is him. He kinda looks like him.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/WellwornForkedArgali-size_restricted.gif

[tpols]

Do go on. Are you saying the South weren’t traitors? Hard sell dude they betrayed their own nation and attacked their own country. Rats. Absolute rats.

they... both attacked each other north and south.

it was a thing called "war".

soycuck at it again. :facepalm

You cant erase history.

[bladefd]

I don't think that everyone knows this, that he was heavily respected by both Grant and Lincoln.

But hey...begots.

According to this eyewitness account I found, Grant shook Lee's hand and they sat there talking about Mexican war they fought in before the Civil War like old friends before discussing the surrender. After Lee agreed to the terms and stepped outside, all of the Union soldiers stood up to show Lee respect. Grant followed him outside as Lee's horse was brought up. Grant and all of his officers saluted Lee as he rode off

[TheMan]

So many snowflakes triggered by a statue of a man they probably have never heard about.

Of course most of us have heard about Gen Robert E Lee, it's the name of the car from the Dukes of Hazard, bro.

And yeah, fukk traitors.

[Patrick Chewing]

Of course most of us have heard about Gen Robert E Lee, it's the name of the car from the Dukes of Hazard, bro.

And yeah, fukk traitors.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/d3b7c332404a66d280a0ee62d8664dbc/tenor.gif


The suspension in that car was top-notch.

[TheMan]

Bravo, blade. Bravo. Finally something you and I can agree on. Lee was also crucial during the Mexican-American war when he fought for the United States.
The Mexican-American war was just an awful landgrab by a stronger neighbor against a weaker neighbor. Even Abe Lincoln spoke out against that injustice. This is the reason gringos who complain about Mexicans taking over the Southwest should just shove it up their ass.

[Patrick Chewing]

The Mexican-American war was just an awful landgrab by a stronger neighbor against a weaker neighbor. Even Abe Lincoln spoke out against that injustice. This is the reason gringos who complain about Mexicans taking over the Southwest should just shove it up their ass.

History only remembers the winners.

[TheMan]

History only remembers the winners.

Huh?

Again, that war was an illegal land grab, just because the US could. Abe Lincoln called it immoral when he was a US representative from Illinois, and he was absolutely right.

We just taking back our ancestral homeland :confusedshrug:

[Patrick Chewing]

Huh?

Again, that war was an illegal land grab, just because the US could. Abe Lincoln called it immoral when he was a US representative from Illinois, and he was absolutely right.

We just taking back our ancestral homeland :confusedshrug:

Lighten up, Francis.

You've basically reclaimed your land back. California, Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas are full of Mexicans.

[tpols]

The Mexican-American war was just an awful landgrab by a stronger neighbor against a weaker neighbor. Even Abe Lincoln spoke out against that injustice. This is the reason gringos who complain about Mexicans taking over the Southwest should just shove it up their ass.

if you lost, you lost.

USA has the right to protect it's territory.

Besides, you guys didnt even have borders, it was just savages roaming where ever.

[Patrick Chewing]

if you lost, you lost.

USA has the right to protect it's territory.

Besides, you guys didnt even have borders, it was just savages roaming where ever.

No shit, to this day they are still cutting heads off down there. We don't need that kind of violence and barbarism in our neighborhoods and streets.

[Im Still Ballin]

Not that important to me IMO...

I only really care about the important issues;

Stats, facts and policy.

[tpols]

No shit, to this day they are still cutting heads off down there. We don't need that kind of violence and barbarism in our neighborhoods and streets.

unfortunately tio we still have that. it's just another group.

*ahem*

sorry felt a cough coming on.

[Patrick Chewing]

unfortunately tio we still have that. it's just another group.

*ahem*

sorry felt a cough coming on.

https://media0.giphy.com/media/MqxZxTlvcY5BS/source.gif

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

1) Statues in general are the first step to idolatry, which is the WORST SIN there is. There's honoring and respecting someone and then there's GOING OVERBOARD to the point of VENERATION. You people with sense who believe in Abraham (PBUH) realize that he destroyed idols. You, Patrick, and you, TheMan, being devout Christians should be following in Abraham (PBUH)'s footsteps and condemn and condone any and all idolatry. The way to cut off evil is to cut it off at it's root.
2) One should not speak ill of the dead as that is straight up disrespectful.
3) The Civil War was not just about slavery---there were other motives. Perhaps others can elaborate on this. There were agendas by the North that weren't purely about abolition.
4) All this discussion about "treachery" coming from RRR3---well perhaps the discussion can move forward if we expound and elaborate on what defines Faithfulness and what defines Treachery. Perhaps, Lee had principles he believed in that overrided his allegiance to his nation? We know he prayed for his enemies and was a devout Christian.
5) There are better, more peaceful ways of dealing with Native Americans even though you or I may disagree with their lifestyles.

[tpols]

1) Statues in general are the first step to idolatry, which is the WORST SIN there is. There's honoring and respecting someone and then there's GOING OVERBOARD to the point of VENERATION. You people with sense who believe in Abraham (PBUH) realize that he destroyed idols. You, Patrick, and you, TheMan, being devout Christians should be following in Abraham (PBUH)'s footsteps and condemn and condone any and all idolatry. The way to cut off evil is to cut it off at it's root.
2) One should not speak ill of the dead as that is straight up disrespectful.
3) The Civil War was not just about slavery---there were other motives. Perhaps others can elaborate on this. There were agendas by the North that weren't purely about abolition.
4) All this discussion about "treachery" coming from RRR3---well perhaps the discussion can move forward if we expound and elaborate on what defines Faithfulness and what defines Treachery. Perhaps, Lee had principles he believed in that overrided his allegiance to his nation? We know he prayed for his enemies and was a devout Christian.
5) There are better, more peaceful ways of dealing with Native Americans even though you or I may disagree with their lifestyles.

nobody here gives a shit about your bullshit religion dude.

hop off the soap box and keep it to yourself.

[Patrick Chewing]

oh ffs here we go again

[RRR3]

they... both attacked each other north and south.

it was a thing called "war".

soycuck at it again. :facepalm

You cant erase history.
The South started it. Attacked their own countrymen. Why do you support traitors?

[RRR3]

A lot of people here who don’t respect our constitution and the flag. Imagine supporting treason :biggums:

[Patrick Chewing]

A lot of people here who don’t respect our constitution and the flag. Imagine supporting treason :biggums:

Turn us in you snitch!!

[RRR3]

Turn us in you snitch!!
For what? I support your right to defend traitors on the internet. Freedom of speech. It still boggles my mind you are pro-traitors to this great country when you say you love America. Seems incongruous man. Either you love America or you love American traitors. Can’t have both.

[Whoah10115]

For what? I support your right to defend traitors on the internet. Freedom of speech. It still boggles my mind you are pro-traitors to this great country when you say you love America. Seems incongruous man. Either you love America or you love American traitors. Can’t have both.

If you're throwing back that ignorant, entitled "This is our Country" bullshit rhetoric back in their faces, keep at it.

Just in case you see it this black and white, bladefd said it well. I don't remember Jefferson Davis as much, for whatever reason, but someone like Lee is different. He didn't want this to be, but once it was he felt it a duty to lead the South.

But like I said, most of the people upset about this and telling others they don't know anything about him, literally know nothing about him.

[Patrick Chewing]

https://i.ibb.co/02vjxFH/01026-B04-BAB7-467-F-9-CDB-E4-E31-B3-FB7-F9.jpg

[32jazz]

A lot of people here who don’t respect our constitution and the flag. Imagine supporting treason :biggums:


These Confederate traitors took up arms against the U.S. & literally fought armies carrying the U.S. flag. 600,000 plus Americans killed. But if a player takes a knee during the anthem.......

[CelticBaller]

I never understood why southeners take pride of the confederacy. Those guys were ****ing traitorous scum who defected from the greatest country in the world over slavery. They literally killed their own brothers and sisters over not wanting people to stop working for free from them

[Whoah10115]

#entitled

[Patrick Chewing]

I never understood why southeners take pride of the confederacy. Those guys were ****ing traitorous scum who defected from the greatest country in the world over slavery. They literally killed their own brothers and sisters over not wanting people to stop working for free from them

They are descendants of those soldiers. That’s why.

[RRR3]

They are descendants of those soldiers. That’s why.
So? Everyone has shitty ancestors. We don’t have to be proud of em. Especially if they’re traitors.

[Patrick Chewing]

So? Everyone has shitty ancestors. We don’t have to be proud of em. Especially if they’re traitors.

Not everyone thinks the same. Just because you don’t agree with it doesn’t mean that everyone has to feel the same way. So asking me “So?” is an irrelevant question.

[coin24]

Not everyone thinks the same. Just because you don’t agree with it doesn’t mean that everyone has to feel the same way. So asking me “So?” is an irrelevant question.


But Beyonce posted it on her twitter so obviously everyone agrees with it :lol:facepalm

[Patrick Chewing]

But Beyonce posted it on her twitter so obviously everyone agrees with it :lol:facepalm

LOL these people are such idiots. They spend their entire day thinking of ways to virtue signal. They wake up and virtue signaling is on the brain. How can I shame and shut down someone today because they don’t think exactly like me. What a sad and pathetic way of life. They’re in a constant state of triggeredness.

[RRR3]

How is it virtue signaling to say Robert E Lee was a traitor? That’s just a fact, guys.

[Patrick Chewing]

How is it virtue signaling to say Robert E Lee was a traitor? That’s just a fact, guys.

You're virtue signaling towards people who don't have a problem with a statue of Robert E. Lee or other Confederate soldiers. You can't leave it alone. You have to shame these people too. You're refusing to understand that some of these people have lived in the same city or town for generations. So they have a personal connection to the South and to Confederate soldiers. Doesn't mean they want to secede and own slaves again...:lol

[kabar]

You're virtue signaling towards people who don't have a problem with a statue of Robert E. Lee or other Confederate soldiers. You can't leave it alone. You have to shame these people too. You're refusing to understand that some of these people have lived in the same city or town for generations. So they have a personal connection to the South and to Confederate soldiers. Doesn't mean they want to secede and own slaves again...:lol

And you know that how? Oh right, stupid people always think they're smarter than they actually are.

[RRR3]

You're virtue signaling towards people who don't have a problem with a statue of Robert E. Lee or other Confederate soldiers. You can't leave it alone. You have to shame these people too. You're refusing to understand that some of these people have lived in the same city or town for generations. So they have a personal connection to the South and to Confederate soldiers. Doesn't mean they want to secede and own slaves again...:lol
Everyone should have a problem with traitors if they love their country. I guess you don’t love America.

[Patrick Chewing]

And you know that how? Oh right, stupid people always think they're smarter than they actually are.

LOL what? Have you ever been to the South?? Doesn't sound like it. Go visit the South one of these days. Black and Whites live among each other in unity with no semblance of racial animosity whatsoever. You know what they have in common down in the South? They're all in the same Economic landscape just about. Either dirt poor, or making it on their own without the need for Corporate America.

Why do Liberals from New York and California get to dictate to the rest of the country the goings on in the South? Why do they get to tell people that Southerners are just ignorant and racist? The biggest congregation of Black people is in the South. Seems to me the only stories of racial animosity come out of Liberal strongholds. I wonder why that is.

[Patrick Chewing]

Everyone should have a problem with traitors if they love their country. I guess you don’t love America.

As expected, you lack the brain matter to understand different perspectives, ideals, and opinions. You're a simpleton. But that's OK.

[kabar]

LOL what? Have you ever been to the South?? Doesn't sound like it. Go visit the South one of these days. Black and Whites live among each other in unity with no semblance of racial animosity whatsoever. You know what they have in common down in the South? They're all in the same Economic landscape just about. Either dirt poor, or making it on their own without the need for Corporate America.

Why do Liberals from New York and California get to dictate to the rest of the country the goings on in the South? Why do they get to tell people that Southerners are just ignorant and racist. The biggest congregation of Black people is in the South.

How does visiting the south give you the ability to read minds? You can say "I don't like fellating trump." but we all know in that small brain of yours, you're fantasizing about it.

[RRR3]

As expected, you lack the brain matter to understand different perspectives, ideals, and opinions. You're a simpleton. But that's OK.
Traitors aren’t worthy of understanding. It’s disgusting that you think betraying America is okay. Why do you hate America, Chewy?

[RRR3]

How does visiting the south give you the ability to read minds? You can say "You don't like fellating trump." but we all know in that small brain of yours, you're fantasizing about it.
He’s literally fantasized about Trump having sex on this board before. Not even joking.

[Patrick Chewing]

How does visiting the south give you the ability to read minds? You can say "I don't like fellating trump." but we all know in that small brain of yours, you're fantasizing about it.

Read minds? What are you in Space Camp right now? STFU and go back to eating your baloney sandwich you jabroni.

[Whoah10115]

Mr. Chewing is proper garbage. Don't pretend to be an American, you son of a bitch.

But continue to hide behind your keyboard. You live in the City? Been to Randall's Island? Busy later?

[Patrick Chewing]

Mr. Chewing is proper garbage. Don't pretend to be an American, you son of a bitch.

But continue to hide behind your keyboard. You live in the City? Been to Randall's Island? Busy later?

https://media.tenor.com/images/f7354b8c66dcf774a0cd75d1806e0d56/tenor.gif

[RRR3]

Mr. Chewing is proper garbage. Don't pretend to be an American, you son of a bitch.

But continue to hide behind your keyboard. You live in the City? Been to Randall's Island? Busy later?
Agreed. Chewy is extremely unpatriotic. Treason is good in his book. Despicable.

[Whoah10115]

Agreed. Chewy is extremely unpatriotic. Treason is good in his book. Despicable.

He's been blocked a while, so if he wants to...play sports at Randall's, let me know.

[RRR3]

He's been blocked a while, so if he wants to...play sports at Randall's, let me know.
Lol he’s too busy defending treason online to do that.

[Nanners]

Sad to see some of the ignorant and idiotic things people are saying in this thread

Anyone who knows anything about Lee knows that he was not just some racist caricature, but a complex man who made a difficult decision to fight with his home state after serving in the US military for 30 years prior to the war... which might explain why he was embraced and treated with great respect by unionists in the years immediately following the war.

TBH, modern america could learn a lot from looking at the relationship between Lee and the union during and after the civil war... especially considering that we might be headed for civil war round 2 right now. After the confederates lost, the union didnt go out of their way to humiliate them and rub their failure in their faces... they tried to set aside their differences and embrace them as the brothers that they were.

That said, Lee would probably approve of the removal of this statue. Lee opposed the construction of memorials to the Confederates as he thought they might prevent the healing of wounds inflicted during the war.

[RRR3]

It’s not ignorant to call Lee a traitor. He literally was. Why does this fact have so many people upset?

[Nanners]

Lee himself would probably agree with you that he was a traitor, and he wouldnt want these statues to exist... which is part of why he is so widely respected.

[Patrick Chewing]

It’s not ignorant to call Lee a traitor. He literally was. Why does this fact have so many people upset?

I think you're having an argument with yourself. No one is NOT calling him a traitor. He was a Secessionist/Traitor, whatever you want to call him. You're arguing with people for no reason. Don't you have anything better to do on a Saturday? No World of Warcraft groups to attend to? No Cosplay parties to go to?

[kabar]

Read minds? What are you in Space Camp right now? STFU and go back to eating your baloney sandwich you jabroni.

No denial of your Trump fantasies.:cheers:

[imdaman99]

nobody here gives a shit about your bullshit religion dude.

hop off the soap box and keep it to yourself.

Speak for yourself you lunatic. You troll on the NBA forums and you troll here on offcourt as if you have any idea what you're talking about.
You think it's some kind of achievement to have chewing agree with the junk you post? :oldlol: ok dude, JMoney would shit on you but he's a respectful guy.

[Patrick Chewing]

Speak for yourself you lunatic. You troll on the NBA forums and you troll here on offcourt as if you have any idea what you're talking about.
You think it's some kind of achievement to have chewing agree with the junk you post? :oldlol: ok dude, JMoney would shit on you but he's a respectful guy.

Don't bring me into your spat. I'm enjoying my Saturday being drama free.

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

Pat, you ought to know, that even though you're a bloodthirsty, racist, savage, trigger-hungry Mushrikeen---STILL when you were gone for a few days, imdaman99 was very concerned about your welfare. As was much of ISH.

[RRR3]

I think you're having an argument with yourself. No one is NOT calling him a traitor. He was a Secessionist/Traitor, whatever you want to call him. You're arguing with people for no reason. Don't you have anything better to do on a Saturday? No World of Warcraft groups to attend to? No Cosplay parties to go to?
Ah so we agree. So why the meltdown?

[Patrick Chewing]

Pat, you ought to know, that even though you're a bloodthirsty, racist, savage, trigger-hungry Mushrikeen---STILL when you were gone for a few days, imdaman99 was very concerned about your welfare. As was much of ISH.

I am the straw that stirs the drink around here. So it's only natural that many of you were concerned.

[Patrick Chewing]

Ah so we agree. So why the meltdown?

I think it's pretty evident that if you go back and read the replies to this thread, the only one having a meltdown in this thread is you. All I simply said is leave the statues up.

[RRR3]

I think it's pretty evident that if you go back and read the replies to this thread, the only one having a meltdown in this thread is you. All I simply said is leave the statues up.
Why would we leave a statue of a traitor up? Do we have statues of Benedict Arnold?

[Patrick Chewing]

Why would we leave a statue of a traitor up? Do we have statues of Benedict Arnold?

And here you go again. Why are you so curious as to what I think? I know you look up to me, but you gotta be your own man for once in your life.

[RRR3]

And here you go again. Why are you so curious as to what I think? I know you look up to me, but you gotta be your own man for once in your life.
You’re the one who decided to start giving your opinions in my thread. It’s fair for me to ask you to expound upon them.

[Patrick Chewing]

You’re the one who decided to start giving your opinions in my thread. It’s fair for me to ask you to expound upon them.

We should leave them up to continue the never-ending cycle of triggering the snowflakes. That's my answer.

[RRR3]

We should leave them up to continue the never-ending cycle of triggering the snowflakes. That's my answer.
It’s good to know you don’t think betraying the country is a serious matter. Never let me catch you claiming you’re a patriot again, bub.

[CelticBaller]

They are descendants of those soldiers. That’s why.

weak argument, still traitors

[Patrick Chewing]

weak argument, still traitors

You're right, my argument is weak. Let's hop in our truck and burn them all.

[Hawker]

Did you hear about white racist southerners that took down a Ulysses S Grant statue in San Francisco?

[Kblaze8855]

Funny thing to me about some of the claim of them not being racial and just history is that most of the statues were built either during the passage of Jim Crow laws or protesting civil rights laws. They aren’t that old. Some in Alabama were literally put up the week the civil rights bill passed....I’m sure by coincidence.

If you ever want to have an amusing few minutes with someone claiming the confederacy wasnt about slavery pull up the articles of succession submitted by the states to explain their reasons.



In the momentous step which our State has taken of dissolving its connection with the government of which we so long formed a part, it is but just that we should declare the prominent reasons which have induced our course.


Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization.

That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin. That we do not overstate the dangers to our institution, a reference to a few facts will sufficiently prove.



But of course slavery wasn’t even on anyone’s mind....


The confederacy was pretty much just evil. Not all of the people individually but evil in the way Nazi Germany or Imperial WW2 Japan was. Evil on the whole far as their goals and standards as far as life and decency. No doubt many reasonable people just lived in those places at the time but the governments they allowed were firmly on the side of wrong.

All governments have times of right and wrong. Those were fundamentally evil. And most of the monuments to them were put up at times of extreme racial tension for the express purpose of supporting the wrong side or showing defiance as laws changed federally that they didn’t wish to accept locally.

The statues themselves aren’t doing anything. But they were put there for mostly ****ed up reasons.

[SATAN]

Great post

[Hawker]

Funny thing to me about some of the claim of them not being racial and just history is that most of the statues were built either during the passage of Jim Crow laws or protesting civil rights laws. They aren’t that old. Some in Alabama were literally put up the week the civil rights bill passed....I’m sure by coincidence.

If you ever want to have an amusing few minutes with someone claiming the confederacy wasnt about slavery pull up the articles of succession submitted by the states to explain their reasons.






But of course slavery wasn’t even on anyone’s mind....


The confederacy was pretty much just evil. Not all of the people individually but evil in the way Nazi Germany or Imperial WW2 Japan was. Evil on the whole far as their goals and standards as far as life and decency. No doubt many reasonable people just lived in those places at the time but the governments they allowed were firmly on the side of wrong.

All governments have times of right and wrong. Those were fundamentally evil. And most of the monuments to them were put up at times of extreme racial tension for the express purpose of supporting the wrong side or showing defiance as laws changed federally that they didn’t wish to accept locally.

The statues themselves aren’t doing anything. But they were put there for mostly ****ed up reasons.

Why did the Ulysses S. grant statue get taken down?

[Kblaze8855]

Not having looked into it....I assume because they don’t know who that is.

[Doomsday Dallas]

https://images.foxtv.com/static.fox5dc.com/www.fox5dc.com/content/uploads/2020/06/1280/720/C68BB34C1A204C9BAF7B6D52DEF0676D.jpg


They got Albert Pike... that statue actually did need to go.

Albert Pike was a little bit more than just a Confederate General. He had a few other things on his resume.

[Patrick Chewing]

Not having looked into it....I assume because they don’t know who that is.

Probably because it’s never been about removing Confederate monuments. Their intent is a bit bigger than that.

[Kblaze8855]

Average person on either side doesn’t have any clue what they are talking about. Ignorance is a pretty good bet most of the time.

There are people who would tear down a statue of John Brown on one end and people on the other who want the American flag respected while they violate the flag code in a dozen ways.

All you can count on is people being poorly informed.

[Patrick Chewing]

https://i.ibb.co/zP6VmM7/E129-F33-F-A81-C-4-EFC-B923-C63270789753.jpg


Never knew Americans wanted Communism that badly.

[Patrick Chewing]

Like I said, this has never been about Confederate statues. This was always about the transformation of America by those willing to watch it burn. These people have been indoctrinated and brainwashed in our schools and universities that the United States is a corrupt and murderous government, and here they are, thinking that they are some kind of liberators and freedom fighters.

And who protects them? The media and the activist groups they hide behind.

[RRR3]

Like I said, this has never been about Confederate statues. This was always about the transformation of America by those willing to watch it burn. These people have been indoctrinated and brainwashed in our schools and universities that the United States is a corrupt and murderous government, and here they are, thinking that they are some kind of liberators and freedom fighters.

And who protects them? The media and the activist groups they hide behind.
The United States is a corrupt and murderous government. Before you say I’m blaming Trump for this, this was true under Obama as well and every single other president.

[Hawker]

The United States is a corrupt and murderous government. Before you say I’m blaming Trump for this, this was true under Obama as well and every single other president.

You're being over the top.

It's just being pointed out that this was never about "traitors" or "confederacy" but dismantling US history.

40 years from now you're going to be looked at as a racist.

[RRR3]

You're being over the top.

It's just being pointed out that this was never about "traitors" or "confederacy" but dismantling US history.

40 years from now you're going to be looked at as a racist.
Liberals are already going to call me a racist and a Trump supporter if they know I’m not voting for Biden dude.

[Shogon]

The United States is a corrupt and murderous government. Before you say I’m blaming Trump for this, this was true under Obama as well and every single other president.

You're not wrong. I agree completely... we're a bit hypocritical though to say the least, as we enjoy the spoils and remain almost exclusively apathetic.

Nevertheless, all good things come to an end... and our time is almost up. We will lose our privilege of having the world reserve currency as the entire global economy melts down, 70%+ of us will die, and America will literally never be the same. C'est la vie. It's a shame I wasn't born like 50 years earlier. Oh well.

Get your guns ready and learn to live off the land. Hold onto some silver, gold... and hopefully Bitcoin for a post collapse world. We'll see.

[Patrick Chewing]

The United States is a corrupt and murderous government. Before you say I’m blaming Trump for this, this was true under Obama as well and every single other president.

And yet without the United States....what? You think everything would be fine and dandy across the globe?

[SATAN]

https://i.postimg.cc/LsFGcZSJ/ezgif-com-gif-maker.gif

[RRR3]

And yet without the United States....what? You think everything would be fine and dandy across the globe?
No, of course not. There’s plenty of other horrible countries and many of them are even worse than us to their own people. No one is more imperial than us though.

[Kblaze8855]

You're being over the top.

It's just being pointed out that this was never about "traitors" or "confederacy" but dismantling US history.

40 years from now you're going to be looked at as a racist.

Tell the millions of people saying the statues and flag are their heritage it isnt about the confederacy. And if you think they dont exist you need to come to the south. Should have seen these rednecks with 6 confederate flags on their trucks driving through the city when we(south carolina) took down the flag after the church shooting.

You can think what you want. They tell us what they think. And they arent shy. I live near this place:



https://dixierepublic.com/shop/




You should see how they act around here at times like this.

[Hawker]

Tell the millions of people saying the statues and flag are their heritage it isnt about the confederacy. And if you think they dont exist you need to come to the south. Should have seen these rednecks with 6 confederate flags on their trucks driving through the city when we(south carolina) took down the flag after the church shooting.

You can think what you want. They tell us what they think. And they arent shy. I live near this place:



https://dixierepublic.com/shop/




You should see how they act around here at times like this.

The slippery slope that people warned about is happening. That's the point.

[Kblaze8855]

The slippery slope that people warned about is happening. That's the point.

Slippery slope to what exactly? Play out the doomsday scenario of your concerns. That people who already can’t name the second, third, or fourth president won’t be able to name the first? That avid lovers of the bill of rights will only know the first and second as opposed to now only knowing those and maybe #5?

The fear that Americans will forget their history has already been realized and all it took was good old fashioned apathy. Lack of a statue they wouldn’t even know existed if people weren’t there to complain about it won’t change anything.

Neither side knows shit about history as it is.

Try asking a right wing audience why John Adams is significant and see how many know.

And those would be the people most vocal about protecting history.

Average guy on the street couldn’t name the 9th or 4th amendment right now.

You are living in the world you’re afraid of already. I asked a girl in the Air Force I dated who the second president was and she said Abraham Lincoln. She realized she was wrong after a minute but....cmon.

That battle is lost. And no statue coming down lost it.

[Patrick Chewing]

KBlaze aloof and in denial as usual. Why you ask? Because he’s enjoying what’s happening.

[Kblaze8855]

So you’re gonna explain this nightmare scenario for me then or do your usual drive by and vanishing act when I ask for details or a reasonable explanation?

[Patrick Chewing]

Your post doesn’t even make sense. That because the brain dead losers don’t know their history, that it doesn’t matter if they tear these monuments down. Is that what you’re implying? What about the rest of us? These purple-haired freaks don’t decide our future nor get to erase our past.

[Kblaze8855]

How does a statue built 100 years after these events being removed 50 years later erase the events of 150 years ago? How would one go about removing the civil war from American history?

You seem concerned it could happen. Tell me how it does.

Generally being disregarded like the Spanish American war or the war of 1812?

What we talking about exactly?

Textbooks skipping the back half of the 1800s?

American history classes beginning in maybe 1920? Tell me what you actually fear could happen.

[Patrick Chewing]

If you think they are teaching American History the way it should be taught, then you are sorely mistaken. And monuments just aren’t history, it’s art, it’s free expression. To tear that down is symbolic of the tearing down of free expression. In essence, the tearing down of free speech.

Instead of focusing your quizzical confusion on our position, have you asked what these people benefit from the tearing down of these statues? These people look primitive out there. That shouldn’t be celebrated.

So to recap, there are plenty of people who value those monuments as expressions of freedom and art. It isn’t just about history, even though that plays a big role.

I mean, would you rather see pictures of the Statue of Liberty, or would you rather see it in person?

[Kblaze8855]

There are no freedom of speech implications when an elected government places and then removes things from its people’s property. If elected officials don’t represent the will of the people vote them out. That’s how you get your ability to decide those things. If the government went into someone’s house and tore down their art that would be another story.

When it’s a random mob that’s a slightly different story. More vandalism. But I suppose tearing down Saddams statue or the random communist ones that mobs tore down in the former USSR were too. A populace removing shit from a previous regime they no longer feel a need to respect. And that’s exactly what many of those statues are if you trace the dates and circumstances. You can read segregation speeches given when some were unveiled. Destroying them later is a political thing yes but freedom of speech protection is from the government....not other citizens. That’s what other laws are for. If the elected officials don’t choose to enforce them go back to issue one. Elections.

There is no physical threat to history. This is hardly the dark ages of kings burning books to actually remove knowledge.

A statue nobody gave a shit about till it’s gone is not teaching anything.

Schools barely teach kids anything beyond names and dates to pass a test. And the red states with deep red run school boards deciding how to distribute education lottery money are hardly churning out more educated students.

You want history taught....go be a teacher. A statue of who the **** ever on a field in a place nobody visits won’t do it for you.

[eliteballer]

You're being over the top.

It's just being pointed out that this was never about "traitors" or "confederacy" but dismantling US history.

40 years from now you're going to be looked at as a racist.

lol. The demographic trends in this country mean in 40 years it's going to look a lot more like Obama's America than Trumps. You lose.

It's also funny to see people like you claim history is being erased when there's plenty of history you were never taught or learned about because of how selective education is in this country.

No one is going to forget the Confederacy anymore than Nazi Germany because some statues come down.

[Kblaze8855]

That’s maybe the most hilarious part of it to me. All that history in the south before the civil war....and 150 years after it. But southern heritage is 4 years of losing a war. There is a lot more southern history just from the revolutionary war era and later. Downright national heroes and people who built America. Barely even exist in American history discussion. The southern types have been in love with the confederacy for all this time and the obsession with it has if anything dimmed the light on MOST southern history.

The greatest obstacle to southern history being learned is people being obsessed with 4 years of it.

[Hawker]

lol. The demographic trends in this country mean in 40 years it's going to look a lot more like Obama's America than Trumps. You lose.

It's also funny to see people like you claim history is being erased when there's plenty of history you were never taught or learned about because of how selective education is in this country.

No one is going to forget the Confederacy anymore than Nazi Germany because some statues come down.

It's not only confederate statues coming down. I don't know how ya'll can be this dense to be honest.

[Hawker]

That’s maybe the most hilarious part of it to me. All that history in the south before the civil war....and 150 years after it. But southern heritage is 4 years of losing a war. There is a lot more southern history just from the revolutionary war era and later. Downright national heroes and people who built America. Barely even exist in American history discussion. The southern types have been in love with the confederacy for all this time and the obsession with it has if anything dimmed the light on MOST southern history.

The greatest obstacle to southern history being learned is people being obsessed with 4 years of it.

You're being purposefully obtuse if you think it's only linked to those four years.

You're correct that there's a lot of great southern history. Some of them were even speakers of the house. Pelosi decided to take their paintings down.

[Patrick Chewing]

There are no freedom of speech implications when an elected government places and then removes things from its people’s property. If elected officials don’t represent the will of the people vote them out. That’s how you get your ability to decide those things. If the government went into someone’s house and tore down their art that would be another story.

When it’s a random mob that’s a slightly different story. More vandalism. But I suppose tearing down Saddams statue or the random communist ones that mobs tore down in the former USSR were too. A populace removing shit from a previous regime they no longer feel a need to respect. And that’s exactly what many of those statues are if you trace the dates and circumstances. You can read segregation speeches given when some were unveiled. Destroying them later is a political thing yes but freedom of speech protection is from the government....not other citizens. That’s what other laws are for. If the elected officials don’t choose to enforce them go back to issue one. Elections.

There is no physical threat to history. This is hardly the dark ages of kings burning books to actually remove knowledge.

A statue nobody gave a shit about till it’s gone is not teaching anything.

Schools barely teach kids anything beyond names and dates to pass a test. And the red states with deep red run school boards deciding how to distribute education lottery money are hardly churning out more educated students.

You want history taught....go be a teacher. A statue of who the **** ever on a field in a place nobody visits won’t do it for you.

Still no explanation for Washington, Jefferson, Grant, and now Roosevelt being taken down?

Oh, and Jesus is next apparently cause he’s too White.

[imdaman99]

If you think they are teaching American History the way it should be taught, then you are sorely mistaken.

You're gotdamn right. I was never taught about Juneteenth. Makes you wonder what else they're hiding from us.

[Patrick Chewing]

You're gotdamn right. I was never taught about Juneteenth. Makes you wonder what else they're hiding from us.

Yup. I only knew about Muslims until after 9/11. I will never forget them now though.

[Hawker]

You're gotdamn right. I was never taught about Juneteenth. Makes you wonder what else they're hiding from us.

It was a Texas holiday that's why. And I actually agree with you that it should be taught and I do actually have no issue making it a national holiday. The reality is that the 4th of July wasn't independence day for blacks so it makes sense that Juneteenth is a national holiday.

[Hawker]

I never knew XXL was a real size until you posted your jersey.

Chewing taking a massive L on this one.

[Patrick Chewing]

Chewing taking a massive L on this one.

Hardly.

[eliteballer]

It's not only confederate statues coming down. I don't know how ya'll can be this dense to be honest.

That's just the point. Every race, nationality, religion etc. has had horrific things done in it's name/history to other groups of people.

Southern apologists and Lost Cause advocates think they're the exception to the rule and should be allowed to celebrate what they want and cover up the atrocities.

It's YOU who want to cover up history by ignoring the terrible things done in order to celebrate some shallow idea of culture.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/10/europe/belgium-king-leopold-ii-statue-intl/index.html

[eliteballer]

.

As a jew do you think there should be statues celebrating Nazis in Germany because it acknowledges history?

[Patrick Chewing]

As a jew do you think there should be statues celebrating Nazis in Germany because it acknowledges history?

Again, these extremes and leaps that you people make doesn't make your case, and yet you continue to do so. Stonewall Jackson and Robert E. Lee were not Hitler nor remotely close to him. The brutalization of the Jews has been unmatched over time past and present.

[JohnnySic]

They should rebuild every statue torn down with re-enforced steel. Its not up to these little shits to decide which statues are worthy. You wanna take down a statue? Then have a vote; let all the people decide.

And in case it needs to be pointed out, destruction of public property is a crime. Destruction of property on federal land (like the attempt on the Andrew Jackson statue today) is a federal crime that brings a 10 year prison sentence. Send these soyboys to Riker's Island.

[Patrick Chewing]

They should rebuild every statue torn down with re-enforced steel. Its not up to these little shits to decide which statues are worthy. You wanna take down a statue? Then have a vote; let all the people decide. - DEMOCRACY

And in case it needs to be pointed out, destruction of public property is a crime. Destruction of property on federal land (like the attempt on the Andrew Jackson statue today) is a federal crime that brings a 10 year prison sentence. Send these soyboys to Riker's Island. - LAW AND ORDER


:applause:

[Hawker]

and i'm loving every minute of it :pimp:

Yeah and this is where I'd actively encourage him to get off ISH and fix yourself first. Gotta get your health right.

[bladefd]

Still no explanation for Washington, Jefferson, Grant, and now Roosevelt being taken down?

Oh, and Jesus is next apparently cause he’s too White.

Where are those statues being brought down?? Or are you saying they *might* come down aka making stuff up? Let's wait until those statues are officially decreed to come down rather than just "rumors" you may have heard

[Kblaze8855]

You're being purposefully obtuse if you think it's only linked to those four years.

You're correct that there's a lot of great southern history. Some of them were even speakers of the house. Pelosi decided to take their paintings down.


Having been in the south(no further north than DC) since the early 90s I can honestly say.....

Ive never once heard a white person reference southern history outside the confines of the confederacy except for Andrew Jackson during the war of 1812. Does that really shock you?

People have no idea who their states even sent to the continental congress much less what they may have done to facilitate the birth of America.

Its hundreds of years boiled down to 4-5. I only stopped hearing "The south will rise again" somewhere in the really late 90s down here. These people are obsessed.

[Kblaze8855]

Still no explanation for Washington, Jefferson, Grant, and now Roosevelt being taken down?

Oh, and Jesus is next apparently cause he’s too White.

Actually:


When it’s a random mob that’s a slightly different story. More vandalism. But I suppose tearing down Saddams statue or the random communist ones that mobs tore down in the former USSR were too. A populace removing shit from a previous regime they no longer feel a need to respect. And that’s exactly what many of those statues are if you trace the dates and circumstances. You can read segregation speeches given when some were unveiled. Destroying them later is a political thing yes but freedom of speech protection is from the government....not other citizens. That’s what other laws are for. If the elected officials don’t choose to enforce them go back to issue one. Elections.


What else would you like exactly? Unlike you ive never had a problem explaining my position on anything. This topic is about a confederate general and was then expanded to others I mentioned. You however tend to act like anything you cant respond to wasnt even brought up. You quote a direct response to what you asked and ask another unrelated question because you are more troll than someone willing to discuss issues. Im not sure you actually have anything to say despite insisting on talking politics all day on here.

Youre essentially the other end of the people on the street yelling about issues they cant really address when asked. You have taglines and "Oh but what about...." not enough information or thoughtfulness to engage in a discussion. Which is probably why you rarely try.

[scuzzy]

https://i.postimg.cc/LsFGcZSJ/ezgif-com-gif-maker.gif
:oldlol:

[Patrick Chewing]

Where are those statues being brought down?? Or are you saying they *might* come down aka making stuff up? Let's wait until those statues are officially decreed to come down rather than just "rumors" you may have heard


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EO0hTvwigzE


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4V29opdHt-M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbwmJxZRlUg


Are you not familiar with Google and Youtube??

[Facepalm]

and i'm loving every minute of it :pimp:

Haven't seen Chewtoy make a Heighweight joke in awhile. Wonder why? :confusedshrug:

[Patrick Chewing]

Haven't seen Chewtoy make a Heighweight joke in awhile. Wonder why? :confusedshrug:

He's getting a kick out of my XXL jersey. He thinks he's got one over me. I may have to post a full body pic to really shatter his ego.

[Facepalm]

He's getting a kick out of my XXL jersey. He thinks he's got one over me. I may have to post a full body pic to really shatter his ego.
We already have it

https://media1.giphy.com/media/OaKdgbwQS2I00/200.gif

[eliteballer]

lol. The demographic trends in this country mean in 40 years it's going to look a lot more like Obama's America than Trumps. You lose.



Read it and weep. History will remember you Trump buffoons like it remembers isolationists prior to WW2 or segregationists in the 60's...people on the wrong side of history.

[bluechox2]

so if your team loses...burn all evidence