How much better would Steph Curry be with illegal defense still in place?

[tpols]

in the 90s...


Zones defense, or anything that resembled one, was completely illegal. You had to be either guarding your man or the ball, and nothing in-between.

so basically you cant double off ball or zone a guy out.

jesus... chef would go nuts with that.

[Stanley Kobrick]

maybe stephen curry could obtain a single iconic playoff moment in the 90's

[Stephonit]

in the 90s...

so basically you cant double off ball or zone a guy out.

jesus... chef would go nuts with that.

Shorter three-point line too.

[Kblaze8855]

We removing the off ball freedom of movement rules too? Letting people hold him? Cutting possessions to limit his chances? Sending him against physical teams like the Knicks, Heat, and so on?

Is it likely anything like this will happen his whole career Just for him being in the lane?

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/PopularTartJaeger-size_restricted.gif





Or we limiting the changes to what you feel would help him and ignoring how many things make it easier now?


Its not by chance a guy like Trae is doing 30/9/5 in his second season as a poor mans Steph. The league caters to that type of player now.

[Stephonit]

We removing the off ball freedom of movement rules too? Letting people hold him? Cutting possessions to limit his chances? Sending him against physical teams like the Knicks, Heat, and so on?

Is it likely anything like this will happen his whole career Just for him being in the lane?

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/PopularTartJaeger-size_restricted.gif


Or we limiting the changes to what you feel would help him and ignoring how many things make it easier now?

How did Mark Price, Mookie Blaylock, and Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf ever survive?

[r0drig0lac]

better?

[Uncle Drew]

Considering Curry got shook by a front line of Ibaka and Adams and relied on Klay to take the have load, I'd say he'd be a below average 6th man.

[Kblaze8855]

Did I ask if he would survive?

Dont mistake me for 3ball. I’ve never said anything to suggest he’s not a great player in any era. But he is obviously in the best time a player like him could be playing. It’s not a knock. Just how it is.

[Stephonit]

Considering Curry got shook by a front line of Ibaka and Adams and relied on Klay to take the have load, I'd say he'd be a below average 6th man.

Curry solved the riddle the one time he met them in the playoffs and caused them to disband. It took Jordan a couple more shots to figure out the Pistons.

[Stephonit]

Did I ask if he would survive?

Dont mistake me for 3ball. I’ve never said anything to suggest he’s not a great player in any era. But he is obviously in the best time a player like him could be playing. It’s not a knock. Just how it is.

Those guys were leading players on their teams and objectively speaking they don't have the arsenal Curry has.

[tpols]

We removing the off ball freedom of movement rules too? Letting people hold him? Cutting possessions to limit his chances? Sending him against physical teams like the Knicks, Heat, and so on?

Is it likely anything like this will happen his whole career Just for him being in the lane?

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/PopularTartJaeger-size_restricted.gif





Or we limiting the changes to what you feel would help him and ignoring how many things make it easier now?


Its not by chance a guy like Trae is doing 30/9/5 in his second season as a poor mans Steph. The league caters to that type of player now.


I've watched the reggie tape.

Off ball players and shooters used to have goons that would lay people out screening for them.

Think bogut and dray and how everybody used to complain about them and their picks.

Simply put, the physicality chef's teammates would be able to play with.. lay fellas out with.. cancels out the factor a guard will have by holding him more.

Shit, he was already held nonstop in the playoffs anyway.

I remember making a thread back in the day detailing how you cant lay a finger on a guy when he has the ball but off ball you can pummel him.

[Kblaze8855]

And even with those goons and Reggie being arguably the off ball goat he rarely got open. I know you’re wrapped up in the guy lately but I assure you...Reggie wasn’t shooting 13-16 times a game in big minutes off sheer unselfishness. It was hard to get open.

[Stephonit]

And even with those goons and Reggie being arguably the off ball goat he rarely got open. I know you’re wrapped up in the guy lately but I assure you...Reggie wasn’t shooting 13-16 times a game in big minutes off sheer unselfishness. It was hard to get open.

What made it hard to get open? The rules? Thibodeau's considered a leading defensive coach because of what he did with the Bulls circa 2010. His schemes are now obsolete and it wasn't the rules that retired them. Spacing did.

[Im Still Ballin]

A lot of teams got away with zone defense strategies/principles

George Karl's Supersonics had a stifling zone that got the best of Hakeem

[tpols]

And even with those goons and Reggie being arguably the off ball goat he rarely got open. I know you’re wrapped up in the guy lately but I assure you...Reggie wasn’t shooting 13-16 times a game in big minutes off sheer unselfishness. It was hard to get open.

Reggie's open and Curry's open are two different things.

Peak Chef liked to take 30 footers. Reggie operated much closer to the midrange where things were crowded.

So it's apples and oranges.

[Kblaze8855]

Speaking of Tom...he was one of the coaches discussing this in 2018....

LOS ANGELES – Timberwolves coach Tom Thibodeau thought his team’s 120-109 loss to the Clippers was one of the more physical games they have played this season.
That might not have seemed like such a big deal five seasons ago or even last season, but in this particular year, that’s worth mentioning.
That’s because the NBA has told officials to emphasize an offensive player’s “freedom of movement,” a phrase quickly becoming part of the basketball vernacular. Freedom of movement means defenders can’t grab or hold the player they are guarding, even if the player is stationary.

“How we adjust to the way the game is being called is critical,” Thibodeau said.

For the Wolves, and the rest of the league for that matter, the adjustment is ongoing. In the meantime, offenses are flourishing.


According to Basketball Reference, teams are averaging 111.7 points per game, 5.4 points more per game than last season. There are a number of factors that have created this scoring bubble — increased pace of play, plus teams shooting (and making) more three-pointers are among them — but across the league, coaches and players said “freedom of movement” deserves some of the credit.
“I think it brings the focus back to fundamentals, which is important for our league,” Thibodeau said.


The emphasis has changed the way players defend and how coaches tell them to defend. Take Toronto coach Nick Nurse. Nurse said coaches would instruct their players to wrap or hold their man if they were standing still. Now, the rules are eliminating this action.

“Sometimes the whistle blows and nobody knows what’s going on, but … they don’t want you to grab and wrap your arms around people and hold them,” Nurse said. “The first thing we told them is to stop doing that. They’re calling it, and we have to find ways to still be physical without wrapping our arms around people.”
This isn’t a bad thing for the game, Nurse said.
“I know it’s frustrating for everyone, but what they’re doing kind of makes sense,” Nurse said.

Similarly, Clippers coach Doc Rivers joked: “I’m trying to get them to be sneakier with the holding.”
Rivers said the rule changes also have caused teams to adjust offensively. Specifically, the pin-down is making a comeback and is mixing in more frequently with the pick-and-roll. A pin-down is a screen one player sets while moving toward the baseline.

Since it’s easier for offensive players to move off the ball, it’s easier for them to maneuver around screens their teammates set off the ball.
“Last year it was all pick-and-rolls,” Rivers said. “Now the pin-downs are coming back because you can’t grab, you can’t hold. If you’re a shooter right now and you’re a movement guy, you’re in heaven right now because it’s tough to stop you.”
Free-throw attempts are up by nearly three per game to 24.4 as a result of the added calls. That has been perhaps the biggest adjustment for the Wolves. Their defensive rating of 114.7 points allowed per 100 possessions is second worst in the league after they were 25th with a rating of 110.1 a season ago.
“We just got to play without fouling more, not use our hands and just play hard,” guard Jimmy Butler said. “If they call a foul, they call a foul.”
And there might be more fouls where there weren’t a season ago.

[Kblaze8855]

Reggie's open and Curry's open are two different things.

Peak Chef liked to take 30 footers. Reggie operated much closer to the midrange where things were crowded.

So it's apples and oranges.


Everyones able to get open if you’re willing to shoot from 30+ feet but just because he can doesn’t make it a moment to moment objective. He’s not literally shooting 30 footers all game. He does actually work to get good looks.

[tpols]

Teams hold like crazy in the playoffs even today. (off ball)

Refs swallow their whistles when the stakes are high.

[Kblaze8855]

That’s a troll sized opening you left right there. I’m gonna stand out of the way since I’m sure one is coming to stroll through it.

[tpols]

im guessing youre saying refs didnt call illegal defense in the playoffs?

[Kblaze8855]

Be patient. A troll will come make the obvious comment.

[Bronbron23]

in the 90s...



so basically you cant double off ball or zone a guy out.

jesus... chef would go nuts with that.

I swear yall dont watch games. For one plenty of teams still doubled, trippled and played zone. Second, bron and the cavs gave steph plenty if problems defensively and they never played zone and rarely double teamed. They switched everything which is how you have to gaurd the warriors. So even if steph and the warriors tourched 95% of the teams in the 90's he and the warriors would have mad problems with mj's bulls who were built to defend the warriors this way.

Also steph consistently has a more difficult time deep in the playoffs where the game is more physical, slowed down and more similar to the 90's style of play. Not sure why you think steph would flourish in an era thats like this all the time.

[tpols]

Second, bron and the cavs gave steph plenty if problems defensively and they never played zone and rarely double teamed.


Get the **** out of my thread right now.

You should be banned for that.

[Bronbron23]

Get the **** out of my thread right now.

You should be banned for that.

Go back and watch 16 dumbass. They switched way more than they would double and when they would double it waz off a screen where you basically have no choice because the warriors set screens with their big so the cavs would switch and steph would have a mismatch with a bigger slower big like love. In this situation your only option is to switch and let steph destroy love or try to fight though the switch which is basically impossible in this era because you'll get called for the foul or double the ball which is steph and force him to give it up. If the warriors didn't do this then cavs would of never doubled at all. Even with tbis offensive strategy the cavs usually just switched. They would throw in the odd double of the screen to switch shit up but most times they switched.

[Bronbron23]

Get the **** out of my thread right now.

You should be banned for that.

Here fakkit. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=t1HQh49Y99c

Where are all these magical double teams yall talk about? They dont exist. Cavs beat steph with straight man coverage with no zone and very little double teams. Pretry much every game was this way. I can send more games if your dumbass wants but i dought you'll watch and continue to live in your fantasy world:facepalm

[Stanley Kobrick]

Here fakkit. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=t1HQh49Y99c

Where are all these magical double teams yall talk about? They dont exist. Cavs beat steph with straight man coverage with no zone and very little double teams. Pretry much every game was this way. I can send more games if your dumbass wants but i dought you'll watch and continue to live in your fantasy world:facepalm
high iq poast

[light]

in the 90s...



so basically you cant double off ball or zone a guy out.

jesus... chef would go nuts with that.

If we had a time machine and could transport Steph back to 1996 and told him to jump into a game and play exactly like he does now, people would look at him like he was a God from Mt. Olympus - or an alien - or some sort of supernatural freak. His ability to make threes would be so far beyond what people of that time thought was possible that he wouldn't seem human.

Leave him there to play for a month and he may be declared GOAT by the end of it.

Ditto LeBron James, btw.

LeBron is top 5 since 2017 in super-deep three percentage (33.6% from 28+ feet) and if guys like LeBron and Steph showed up from the future nailing bombs from 35 feet they'd make everyone else in the league look like they're still learning the game.

[Axe]

Curry isn't really that invincible as opposed to some of his stans would suggest

[Bronbron23]

If we had a time machine and could transport Steph back to 1996 and told him to jump into a game and play exactly like he does now, people would look at him like he was a God from Mt. Olympus - or an alien - or some sort of supernatural freak. His ability to make threes would be so far beyond what people of that time thought was possible that he wouldn't seem human.

Leave him there to play for a month and he may be declared GOAT by the end of it.

Ditto LeBron James, btw.

LeBron is top 5 since 2017 in super-deep three percentage (33.6% from 28+ feet) and if guys like LeBron and Steph showed up from the future nailing bombs from 35 feet they'd make everyone else in the league look like they're still learning the game.

Good luck shooting those threes with the same efficiency when guys on the perimeter are actually allowed to play defence. Your not allowed fighting through screens or its foul. You cant contest shots because guys flop and flail and you'll get called for a foul. You cant hand check or make contact or its a foul. Perimeter defense is impossible in this era

[scuzzy]

It's easy to double and trap Curry, dude panics and causes turnovers under pressure


Can't do that with good passers that can see over defenses and hit the open man with precision