Westbrook's best season yet flying under the radar?

[ArbitraryWater]

After a slow start, the guy has been lighting it up better than he ever has scoring wise. Not even close, either.

Westbrook is averaging 28/8/7 on 47.4%.

31.3 ppg, 8.0 rpg, 6.8 apg on 50.6% FG / 78.5% FT's since 12/19, last 29 games.

[999Guy]

He’s not seeing help defenders. The Rockets are logistically unguardable with a healthy JH and WB, but like with Milwaukee you have to hope the other guys with weak skill sets sink them.

Gordon, Green, Covington, House, Tucker, is not bad at all next to two all-time load carriers.

[Roundball_Rock]

After a slow start, the guy has been lighting it up better than he ever has scoring wise. Not even close, either.

Westbrook is averaging 28/8/7 on 47.4%.

31.3 ppg, 8.0 rpg, 6.8 apg on 50.6% FG / 78.5% FT's since 12/19, last 29 games.

The big knock on him was his inefficiency and Houston has turned him into an efficient player. I do think he and the Rockets in general are flying under the radar. They have a shot against any team in a series.

[ArbitraryWater]

The big knock on him was his inefficiency and Houston has turned him into an efficient player. I do think he and the Rockets in general are flying under the radar. They have a shot against any team in a series.

They lost a couple games on buzzer beaters, and a bunch of games sitting one of their stars... them and Boston's records are severely underrated.

[RRR3]

Westbrook’s best season was 2017. He was legit bad for like half the year this season. He was awesome in the second half of the season no doubt but you have to take the whole year into account.

[ArbitraryWater]

Westbrook’s best season was 2017. He was legit bad for half the year this season. He was awesome in the second half of the season no doubt but you have to take the whole year into account.

Yeah, and the whole year has him at 28/8/7 on 47.4%, LOL

And no, not sure what your memory is up to or what data you are looking at, he was never "legit bad". He was being Russ as usual (almost), and then he knocked it out the park.

[RRR3]

Yeah, and the whole year has him at 28/8/7 on 47.4%, LOL
2020: 27.5/8.0/7.0 on 53.9 TS%

2017: 31.6/10.7/10.4 on 55.4 TS%


Why are you using FG% to measure efficiency? This isn’t 1975.

[ArbitraryWater]

2020: 27.5/8.0/7.0 on 53.9 TS%

2017: 31.6/10.7/10.4 on 55.4 TS%


Why are you using FG% to measure efficiency? This isn’t 1975.

Since when are you tarding on TS?

You can have a higher TS while shooting a lower 2P 3P and FT %, so its obviously volume related.

And has way too big of an emphasis on FT%, as pointed out below.

Use eFG% if you wanna feel better about your efficiency metric.

That one is still better in 2020, by a solid margin.

[Roundball_Rock]

Westbrook’s best season was 2017. He was legit bad for like half the year this season. He was awesome in the second half of the season no doubt but you have to take the whole year into account.

His season has been underrated, partly due to the poor start adjusting to a new team and system, partly due to the LA teams taking up all the media oxygen. 2017 was his best year, though.


2020: 27.5/8.0/7.0 on 53.9 TS%

2017: 31.6/10.7/10.4 on 55.4 TS%

Why are you using FG% to measure efficiency?

This is the problem with TS% in a nutshell. That shift is driven by him becoming a much worse FT shooter after 17'. We can't ignore FT % but I think it should be separated in discussions. When people talk "efficiency" they usually mean shot selection, how much a player could score without becoming a detriment to the offense (chucking) given his skill set, etc. FT % tells us nothing about whether a player is creating good shots or taking smart shots versus jacking up shots over double teams, etc.

His eFG% (which adjusts for 3's but not FT) is up from 47.6% in 17' to 49.5% today.


They lost a couple games on buzzer beaters, and a bunch of games sitting one of their stars... them and Boston's records are severely underrated.

I think some of that would correct itself over 82 games so I am glad we are getting at least 8 more RS games to have a proper sample. If you cut things off arbitrarily some fluke outcomes could happen. For example, the Clippers were in 4th in the WC a week or so before suspension.

[ArbitraryWater]

His season has been underrated, partly due to the poor start adjusting to a new team and system, partly due to the LA teams taking up all the media oxygen. 2017 was his best year, though.



This is the problem with TS% in a nutshell. That shift is driven by him becoming a much worse FT shooter after 17'. We can't ignore FT % but I think it should be separated in discussions. When people talk "efficiency" they usually mean shot selection, how much a player could score without becoming a detriment to the offense (chucking) given his skill set, etc. FT % tells us nothing about whether a player is creating good shots or taking smart shots versus jacking up shots over double teams, etc.

His eFG% (which adjusts for 3's but not FT) is up from 47.6% in 17' to 49.5% today.



I think some of that would correct itself over 82 games so I am glad we are getting at least 8 more RS games to have a proper sample. If you cut things off arbitrarily some fluke outcomes could happen. For example, the Clippers were in 4th in the WC a week or so before suspension.

I don't think they were ever 4th, right? Were the Jazz ahead of them for a night or?

[RRR3]

His season has been underrated, partly due to the poor start adjusting to a new team and system, partly due to the LA teams taking up all the media oxygen. 2017 was his best year, though.



This is the problem with TS% in a nutshell. That shift is driven by him becoming a much worse FT shooter after 17'. We can't ignore FT % but I think it should be separated in discussions. When people talk "efficiency" they usually mean shot selection, how much a player could score without becoming a detriment to the offense (chucking) given his skill set, etc. FT % tells us nothing about whether a player is creating good shots or taking smart shots versus jacking up shots over double teams, etc.

His eFG% (which adjusts for 3's but not FT) is up from 47.6% in 17' to 49.5% today.



I think some of that would correct itself over 82 games so I am glad we are getting at least 8 more RS games to have a proper sample. If you cut things off arbitrarily some fluke outcomes could happen. For example, the Clippers were in 4th in the WC a week or so before suspension.
FT% is part of efficiency dude.

[tpols]

what are harden's stats in the last 29 games?

it feels like so long ago, but if i remember the gist of things... harden had great numbers to start, westbrook sucked. Then westbrook started going off, and harden sucked.

They are the 30th ranked assist team (last place) so i assume it's always just gonna be one or the other going off.

[Phoenix]

Westbrook’s best season was 2017. He was legit bad for like half the year this season. He was awesome in the second half of the season no doubt but you have to take the whole year into account.

I feel like that was partly a byproduct of being integrated into the team. Note that when Russ ascended, Harden stepped back. The two of them going off together gives the Rockets a punchers chance against the Lakers/Clippers out west but generally, its kind of a 'my turn, your turn' with those two. Their styles and skillsets don't naturally fit together.

[ArbitraryWater]

FT% is part of efficiency dude.

Sure, just not as big as TS% has it.

Just look at it seperately. You'll notice yourself what carries more weight, instead of trying to jam it into one stat.

[ELITEpower23]

2020: 27.5/8.0/7.0 on 53.9 TS%

2017: 31.6/10.7/10.4 on 55.4 TS%


Why are you using FG% to measure efficiency? This isn’t 1975.

No one cares about free throws homie. TS% is whack

[ELITEpower23]

Sure, just not as big as TS% has it.

Just look at it seperately. You'll notice yourself what carries more weight, instead of trying to jam it into one stat.

Exactly. Do FT seperate if you really care so much RRR3

[Roundball_Rock]

I don't think they were ever 4th, right? Were the Jazz ahead of them for a night or?

The Clippers? They were 4th at several points in the season and briefly 5th in mid-January. Usually they were 2nd or 3rd but they were 4th a few times (they were 7th and 8th very early in the season but were 2-4 for the bulk). This link https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2020_standings_by_date_western_conference.html shows you the standings day-by-day. You can highlight a team to better track them over time.

Nick Wright said they were 4th a week prior to suspension. That turns out to be wrong--they were 3rd. The last time they were 4th was January 15. They were 5th on Jan. 12-13 (2nd prior to that).


FT% is part of efficiency dude.

I agree but it should be discussed separately. Westbrook is a textbook case. He changed his game, is playing smarter than ever, taking much better shots but TS % does not capture that and in fact makes it seem like he is playing worse.

Westbrook shoots 51.8% on two's this year. So if he takes 10, he generates 10.36 points. He shoots 77.7% from the line. So over 10 trips to the line he generates 15.54 points.

What people don't realize about FT % is you have to get to being a Shaq-level FT shooter to actually start hurting the team. Even a 65% shooter is going to generate 13 points per 10 trips. That is why they are "free"--it is a lot easier to shoot them than field goals.

[ArbitraryWater]

The Clippers? They were 4th at several points in the season and briefly 5th in mid-January. Usually they were 2nd or 3rd but they were 4th a few times (they were 7th and 8th very early in the season but were 2-4 for the bulk). This link https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2020_standings_by_date_western_conference.html shows you the standings day-by-day. You can highlight a team to better track them over time.

Nick Wright said they were 4th a week prior to suspension. That turns out to be wrong--they were 3rd. The last time they were 4th was January 15. They were 5th on Jan. 12-13 (2nd prior to that).



I agree but it should be discussed separately. Westbrook is a textbook case. He changed his game, is playing smarter than ever, taking much better shots but TS % does not capture that and in fact makes it seem like he is playing worse.

Westbrook shoots 51.8% on two's this year. So if he takes 10, he generates 10.36 points. He shoots 77.7% from the line. So over 10 trips to the line he generates 15.54 points.

What people don't realize about FT % is you have to get to being a Shaq-level FT shooter to actually start hurting the team. Even a 65% shooter is going to generate 13 points per 10 trips. That is why they are "free"--it is a lot easier to shoot them than field goals.

Bingo.

You are not just making a disservice to the improved player (Westbrook in this case), but also oversimplifying matters...

People just dont think enough. RRR3 is a good example of that.

[Roundball_Rock]

Bingo.

You are not just making a disservice to the improved player (Westbrook in this case), but also oversimplifying matters...

People just dont think enough. RRR3 is a good example of that.

Here is some more from another thread where TS % is being brought up regarding Pippen:


Let's dive into this further. Pippen averaged 5.8 FTA in the playoffs in his prime, shooting 72.5% (4.2 makes). So roughly equivalent (actually slightly better) to taking 3 two point field goals and making two of them. Would it be inefficient to shoot 2 for 3 on two point field goals? So why do we pretend shooting 4 from 6 at the line somehow is? They both produce the same amount of points for the team.

RRR3 is a great poster but he is just wrong on this.

[CTbasketball92]

In all seriousness, pretty much all of his advanced stats say 2014-2017 Russell Westbrook was peak Westbrook.

He was unstoppable going to the rim and could regularly win games all by himself. He was an incredible passer and he could get hot from three his MVP year.

This Westbrook is a top 20-25ish player. Peak russ was a top 5 player

[ArbitraryWater]

In all seriousness, pretty much all of his advanced stats say 2014-2017 Russell Westbrook was peak Westbrook.

He was unstoppable going to the rim and could regularly win games all by himself. He was an incredible passer and he could get hot from three his MVP year.

This Westbrook is a top 20-25ish player. Peak russ was a top 5 player

Please just lead me to all the other top 20-25ish players doing 28/8/7 on near 48% and I'll be out of your hair, thx

[imdaman99]

In all seriousness, pretty much all of his advanced stats say 2014-2017 Russell Westbrook was peak Westbrook.

He was unstoppable going to the rim and could regularly win games all by himself. He was an incredible passer and he could get hot from three his MVP year.

This Westbrook is a top 20-25ish player. Peak russ was a top 5 player
Damn you have really turned on Westbrook nowadays :lol he is prob top 10 right now, at worst top 15. This is not peak Russ, but he has figured out the Rockets system. It amazes me how he put up those numbers, without much shooting surrounding him on OKC, especially in his MVP year. He was a passable 3pt shooter that year.

I think Capela hanging in the lane was a detriment to him, and surprisingly Morey chose to help Westbrook out by trading him and hurting Harden in the process. I still think Harden will figure it out because him and Russ are close friends so they'll fight to make it work.

[warriorfan]

He’s not seeing help defenders. The Rockets are logistically unguardable with a healthy JH and WB, but like with Milwaukee you have to hope the other guys with weak skill sets sink them.

Gordon, Green, Covington, House, Tucker, is not bad at all next to two all-time load carriers.

That is why KD was able to score effectively in the NBA Finals with Golden State.