Show me a close series win or series loss where Pippen didn't play bad

[3ball]

His poor play was the reason that series were close or lost because he never exceeded 16 on 41% in any close series win or loss, while MJ doubled that production

The best example of a "close" series where Pippen played okay is the 93' ECF (last 4 games were blowouts), or 97' Finals (20 on 42%)... Otherwise, his horrific play caused all these series to be close or lost: 89' ECF, 90' ECF, 92' ECF, 94' ECSF, 95' ECSF, 96' Finals, 98' ECF, 98' Finals

Can anyone cite other examples of close series wins or losses where Pippen didn't wet the bed?

[aceman]

Ha

[light]

He played well defensively in every series.

Maybe more importantly than that, he was always available to play. During their championship runs Pippen didn't miss a single start. Same for Grant and Rodman - they were also always available to play.

Contrast that to Chris Bosh, Kevin Love, Kyrie Irving and Dwyane Wade. Not only did those guys not play defense, but because they were injury prone, they were often not even playing at all! And we're not just talking about being out one game, which would be bad enough, but most of those guys were out for an entire series or more!

So you'd rather have Pippen starting and playing below his best offensively versus Pippen being out and someone like Rodney McCray starting (which is more akin to what LeBron had to deal with).

[Uncle Drew]

No Pip, no chip.

[3ball]

He played well defensively in every series.

Maybe more importantly than that, he was always available to play. During their championship runs Pippen didn't miss a single start. Same for Grant and Rodman - they were also always available to play.

Contrast that to Chris Bosh, Kevin Love, Kyrie Irving and Dwyane Wade. Not only did those guys not play defense, but because they were injury prone, they were often not even playing at all! And we're not just talking about being out one game, which would be bad enough, but most of those guys were out for an entire series or more!

So you'd rather have Pippen starting and playing below his best offensively versus Pippen being out and someone like Rodney McCray starting (which is more akin to what LeBron had to deal with).

We blame lebron's teammates HEAVILY every time lebron loses

We don't do the same for Pippen because the lebron media has successfully shifted the narrative on him and pulled the wool over people's eyes

But MJ dominated every series he ever played - the only reason any series was close or lost was because Pippen wet the bed frequently... He's the reason for every close series or loss from 88-98'

Btw, I forgot to include the 89' 1st round in the OP... That series came down to the last shot because Pippen wet the bed again - 15 on 40%

[Kblaze8855]

So topic 88 of childish, disingenuous, nonsense attempting to make 40 minutes of basketball into the 18 seconds accounted for by field goal percentage for the obviously unnecessary goal of making someone considered the GOAT look better by diminishing his teammates to an extent he himself would call you a moron for?

That all you have on the menu?

Doing one thing is fine when you do it well...but you are bad at this. You have done little but make people talk about and praise Pippen more. Youre the entire reason there are dozens of Pippen topics a month. Most in praise of him. The best thing that happened to Pippens reputation on ISH is having you working to destroy it. Your bias is so high and credibility so low players benefit from being your target just off the general feeling that youre a nut and cant be taken serious.

Focus on hating Giannis for about 6 months. Hed be top 15 all time by the time you finish.

[Leviathon1121]

Seriously 3ball go get a life, hobby, girlfriend...something to occupy your time...

[Turbo Slayer]

Lollll, OP.

[SouBeachTalents]

How do you not get tired of this?

[Roundball_Rock]

It is common sense: you don't win 6 rings if you don't play consistently well. By your own admission, a view also adhered to by your ilk, when Pippen didn't play well the Bulls crumbled (Game 7 of the 90' ECF, 89' ECF in particular).

[3ball]

when Pippen didn't play well the Bulls crumbled


.

^^^^ that's just false... I don't know what else to say... Are you pretending or something??... Because you know the facts:

Only MJ beat top 5 SRS teams with poor scoring and efficiency from his sidekick - he beat five different top 5 SRS teams with only 16 on 34-42% from Pippen - so only MJ had carry-jobs against good teams..

otoh, lebron needed 20/5/5 on 48% from Wade to beat the 13' Spurs.. he always needed better scoring and efficiency from his sidekick to beat good teams (never had a carry-job against a good team)

[Roundball_Rock]

that's just false..

That is the commonly expressed position of you and other MJ stans: the Bulls lost in the 80's and 90' ECF precisely because Pippen didn't put up big numbers (in the case of 90' he did--except in the migraine game of course).

I get it is hard to keep the shifting positions straight when they change from thread to thread, hour to hour. :lol

[3ball]

That is the commonly expressed position of you and other MJ stans: the Bulls lost in the 80's and 90' ECF precisely because Pippen didn't put up big numbers (in the case of 90' he did--except in the migraine game of course).

I get it is hard to keep the shifting positions straight when they change from thread to thread, hour to hour. :lol

Yes, but not every time.. they didn't lose every time Pippen crumbled

The bulls won 5 series against top 5 SRS teams despite Pippen crumbling

Only MJ did that - only MJ beat good teams with poor scoring and efficiency from his sidekick - only he had carry-jobs against good teams

[FKAri]

1-9

[3ball]

1-9

If Pippen was truly a star, he would be held accountable when he wet the bed.. we blame lebron's teammates when lebron loses, so why not blame Pippen when the bulls lose? His poor play is the only reason that series were close or lost

[Roundball_Rock]

His poor play is the only reason that series were close or lost

So Pippen was the keystone to winning again--minutes later...

The reason people don't take this stuff seriously is the clear agendas. This level of scrutiny is not applied to any other player (other than, not coincidentally, LeBron). Judging by posts I suspect Fkari, like me and others, were old enough to watch back then. So we know for every "bad" (by superstar standards) series for Pippen you can find the same or more for Ewing, Robinson, Malone, Stockton, and so on down the line (basically anybody not named MJ or Hakeem). Stockton averaged 9.7 PPG in a finals, including a 2 point game, and it never comes up.

[SouBeachTalents]

If Pippen was truly a star, he would be held accountable when he wet the bed.. we blame lebron's teammates when lebron loses, so why not blame Pippen when the bulls lose? His poor play is the only reason that series were close or lost
But the Bulls didn't lose with Pippen. They went from first round fodder to 6x champs

[Roundball_Rock]

But the Bulls didn't lose with Pippen. They went from first round fodder to 6x champs

The double spin for players on the same teams never ceases to amaze me with 3ball and co. :lol So MJ is the GOAT because of his team success; now we are hearing Pippen is the reason they lacked team success. Same teams, same team outcomes...Jordan can't win and Pippen lose the same game/series...

They do the same stuff with competition. MJ faced a murderer's row of defenses; Pippen faced pillow soft defenses. Same defenses...

[SouBeachTalents]

The double spin for players on the same teams never ceases to amaze me with 3ball and co. :lol So MJ is the GOAT because of his team success; now we are hearing Pippen is the reason they lacked team success. Same teams, same team outcomes...Jordan can't win and Pippen lose the same game/series...

They do the same stuff with competition. MJ faced a murderer's row of defenses; Pippen faced pillow soft defenses. Same defenses...
3ball's most shameless is saying how it's so much easier to score now than it was in the 90's, then pointing to some LeBron affiliated players ppg average for an example to why they're better than Pippen

[Roundball_Rock]

3ball's most shameless is saying how it's so much easier to score now than it was in the 90's, then pointing to some LeBron affiliated players ppg average for an example to why they're better than Pippen

Yup--especially since his (and their) entire conception of "offense" is scoring (playmaking is a foreign concept). The other funny part is whenever they invoke scoring with Pippen relative to another perimeter player the actual difference is minuscule (e.g., prime Grant Hill scored...0.4 more PPG than Pippen in the playoffs or 1 PPG for prime Pippen versus LeBron-era Wade in the playoffs).

[BigShotBob]

Yea Pippen has always shrunk when it mattered the most. 22 points on 40% as the man against the Knicks.

[FKAri]

If Pippen was truly a star, he would be held accountable when he wet the bed.. we blame lebron's teammates when lebron loses, so why not blame Pippen when the bulls lose? His poor play is the only reason that series were close or lost

You're right. We need to hold Pippen accountable. His no-show allowed 1-9 to happen.

[3ball]

You're right. We need to hold Pippen accountable. His no-show allowed 1-9 to happen.

How many series wins for lebron over good teams (top 5 SRS) with poor scoring and efficiency from his sidekick?..

aka how many carry-jobs for lebron against good teams?

How many for MJ?

Remember, lebron needed 20/5/5 on 48% to beat the 13' Spurs (prime Pippen numbers)

[SouBeachTalents]

How many series wins for lebron over good teams (top 5 SRS) with poor scoring and efficiency from his sidekick?..

aka how many carry-jobs for lebron against good teams?

How many for MJ?

Remember, lebron needed 20/5/5 on 48% to beat the 13' Spurs (prime Pippen numbers)
1-9 series

[LAmbruh]

You're right. We need to hold Pippen accountable. His no-show allowed 1-9 to happen.

:oldlol:

[Roundball_Rock]

1-9 series

Isn't this what it is all about? They are insecure because MJ never won anything or even came close without Pippen (Pippen came close without Jordan to add insult to injury :lol ). LeBron fans aren't insecure about Wade--he won without him. Kareem won without Magic. Duncan without Robinson etc.

[3ball]

Isn't this what it is all about? They are insecure because MJ never won anything or even came close without Pippen (Pippen came close without Jordan to add insult to injury :lol ). LeBron fans aren't insecure about Wade--he won without him. Kareem won without Magic. Duncan without Robinson etc.

Nah, smart people understand that jordan's 30-40 win teams were unlucky to make the playoffs as 8 seeds (therefore facing the impossible 8 vs 1 matchup), while lebron's 30-40 win teams were fortunate to miss the playoffs in 04', 05', and 19', thereby missing the underdog matchups that would've sent him home early.. Instead, Lebron only made the playoffs with good teams/high seeds and therefore easy early-round matchups

[BigShotBob]

Nah, smart people understand that jordan's 30-40 win teams were unlucky to make the playoffs as 8 seeds (therefore facing the impossible 8 vs 1 matchup), while lebron's 30-40 win teams were fortunate to miss the playoffs in 04', 05', and 19', thereby missing the underdog matchups that would've sent him home early.. Instead, Lebron only made the playoffs with good teams/high seeds and therefore easy early-round matchups

Ether.

[3ball]

Ether.

Thanks

And what does Roundball do when you ether him?... same thing as his idol - runs

[97 bulls]

So topic 88 of childish, disingenuous, nonsense attempting to make 40 minutes of basketball into the 18 seconds accounted for by field goal percentage for the obviously unnecessary goal of making someone considered the GOAT look better by diminishing his teammates to an extent he himself would call you a moron for?

That all you have on the menu?

Doing one thing is fine when you do it well...but you are bad at this. You have done little but make people talk about and praise Pippen more. Youre the entire reason there are dozens of Pippen topics a month. Most in praise of him. The best thing that happened to Pippens reputation on ISH is having you working to destroy it. Your bias is so high and credibility so low players benefit from being your target just off the general feeling that youre a nut and cant be taken serious.

Focus on hating Giannis for about 6 months. Hed be top 15 all time by the time you finish.

Lol truly a great and hilarious post.

[NBAGOAT]

1992 finals

[ArbitraryWater]

MJ's Leadership style was too hostile. There is a reason no leader/motivational lessons include yanking on your colleagues.

This is one of the greatest leaders of all time:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGshFwJKb7g

Firm, strong, encouraging/inspiring, and comforting in the end.

Moutinho did shoot a penalty, he made it, and they won the shootout, with Ronaldo making it as well.

A few days later they were European Champions.

[3ball]

1992 finals

And 93' ECF

Not the 97' Finals - Pippen underperformed a little, and this contributed to the series being close - he shot 42%, and MJ needed to be ridiculously clutch because Pippen was last in clutch points (last 5 minutes, within 5).. Pippen had 4 clutch points in this series (basically last).

And look at the 93' Finals - both teams averaged exactly 106.7 ppg and 113.0 ortg - so the series was a stalemate, but only because Pippen shot 45.9% true shooting.. if he shot poorly instead of worst-all-time, the bulls win easily

[Roundball_Rock]

One tell of MJ stan deception is they will always fly speck Pippen but never compare him to his peer superstars and players on the opposing team. That is because they know he outperformed them.

Pippen>>>>>>>>>>>>>>K. Johnson, the Phoenix sidekick in the series. Johnson sucked so bad his home fans booed him when he got benched in a game. :lol

Pippen was great in the 97' finals. MJ himself said Pippen was co-FMVP. Pippen's efficiency was comparable to MJ's. Pippen shot 48.1% eFG, Jordan 48.4%. What MJ stans always conceal is Pippen took more threes than MJ during the second threepeat.

How about Malone and Stockton?

Pippen: 20/8/4 on 48.1% eFG
Malone: 24/10/4 on 44.3% eFG (as a post player/PF...)
Stockton: 15/4/9 on 54.8% eFG

None of this covers defense...

Back to the 1993 finals.

Pippen: 21/9/8 43.9% eFG
Johnson: 17/3/7 42.1% eFG

Then factor in defense. It isn't close--Pippen wasn't the one getting benched and booed at home. The eye test was even worse for KJ, as his fans saw.

[3ball]

One tell of MJ stan deception is they will always fly speck Pippen but never compare him to his peer superstars and players on the opposing team. That is because they know he outperformed them.

Pippen>>>>>>>>>>>>>>K. Johnson, the Phoenix sidekick in the series. Johnson sucked so bad his home fans booed him when he got benched in a game. :lol

Pippen was great in the 97' finals. MJ himself said Pippen was co-FMVP. Pippen's efficiency was comparable to MJ's. Pippen shot 48.1% eFG, Jordan 48.4%. What MJ stans always conceal is Pippen took more threes than MJ during the second threepeat.

How about Malone and Stockton?

Pippen: 20/8/4 on 48.1% eFG
Malone: 24/10/4 on 44.3% eFG (as a post player/PF...)
Stockton: 15/4/9 on 54.8% eFG

None of this covers defense...

Back to the 1993 finals.

Pippen: 21/9/8 43.9% eFG
Johnson: 17/3/7 42.1% eFG

Then factor in defense. It isn't close--Pippen wasn't the one getting benched and booed at home. The eye test was even worse for KJ, as his fans saw.

Forget KJ because Majerle outplayed Pippen in the 93' Finals - you're the one who pointed this out.. Pippen had worst-ever true shooting (45.9%), which is why the Bulls couldn't outscore Phoenix in that series (both teams averaged 113.0 ppg).. if Pippen just shoots normally or even below-average, the Bulls blow the Suns away.. so as usual, we see that Pippen's poor play caused a close series and near-loss.. he had zero 4th quarter points in game 6, so mj had to score every point except the paxson shot.

Regarding 1997 Finals - it's borderline - he had 4 points TOTAL when the game was tight down the stretch (last 5 minutes, within 5), so MJ had to win 3 games on the last possession (2 winners and the assist to Kerr)..

So far we've identified 2 close series that Pippen didn't play poorly in (and therefore wasn't the reason the series was close) - the 92' Finals and 93' ECF - and maybe a 3rd with the 97' Finals

He played badly in virtually every other close series or series loss, so he was the reason those series were close or lost - pippen was the reason the bulls had close series or lost

We blame lebron's teammates whenever lebron loses, so why not blame Pippen whenever MJ lost? Pippen was the one laying the egg, not Jordan!!!

[Roundball_Rock]

Forget KJ because Majerle outplayed Pippen in the 93' Finals - you're the one who pointed this out

A lie. I listed game score data to show Pippen>>>Wade/Irving/Gasol as sidekick help. Majerle barely was ahead of Pippen. One of about 10% of series where Pippen wasn't the top game score cast member (for Wade in the Finals/ECF I looked at it was 63%, as a comparison). Game score, of course, does not capture defense. Pippen was the third best player in the series behind MJ and Barkley.


Pippen had worst-ever true shooting (45.9%)

Another lie.


Regarding 1997 Finals - it's borderline

It isn't. Pippen was the second best player in the series, outplaying MVP Malone.


We blame lebron's teammates whenever lebron loses

Good point. Why couldn't Barkley, Drexler, Worthy and Malone get the sidekick help MJ had? That flipped each of these series.


So far we've identified 2 close series that Pippen didn't play poorly in

Because people don't take you and your ilk seriously. This is easy. It seems "6 games" is defined as close...

1991: 0 close series
1992: Pippen great in the finals, great in the ECF; okay in the ECSF (still outplayed NY's #2)
1993: Pippen good in the finals, great in the ECF; no other close series
1996: Pippen subpar in the finals; no other close series
1997: Pippen great in the finals; no other close series
1998: Pippen great in the finals; great in the ECF; no other close series

Pippen consistently showed up, unlike the superstars that were supposedly MJ's competition like Ewing, Robinson, and Malone.

[3ball]

1996: Pippen subpar in the finals; no other close series
1997: Pippen great in the finals; no other close series
1998: Pippen great in the finals; great in the ECF; no other close series



1996 Finals... 15 on 34%

1998 ECF... 16 on 40%

1998 Finals... 16 on 41%


^^^ MJ should be blowing those teams away with another sidekick getting better stats, but Pippen's weak play caused all those series to be close






A lie. I listed game score data to show Pippen>>>Wade/Irving/Gasol as sidekick help. Majerle barely was ahead of Pippen.




So based on your criteria, Majerle > Pippen

Got it






Another lie.




Pippen shot 45.9% true shooting in the 93' Finals

That's worst-ever caliber, which is why the Bulls couldn't outscore the Suns in that series (both teams averaged 113.0 ppg)... If Pippen shot normally, the bulls blow out the suns

And Pippen had zero points in the 4th of Game 6, so MJ scored every single point, except paxson's shot .. Again, Pippen's weak performance is the only reason that series was close






It isn't. Pippen was the second best player in the series, outplaying MVP Malone.



Lol he didn't outplay Malone, who carried the Jazz and faced all the attention and gameplanning

otoh, pippen GOT carried... So a big difference





1991: 0 close series
1992: Pippen great in the finals, great in the ECF; okay in the ECSF (still outplayed NY's #2)




1992 ECSF

X-man..... 19 on 50%
Pippen.... 16 on 41%


Pippen's horrible performance is the only reason the series went 7 games

He was also bullied by X-man in game 7, so MJ had the legendary forehead-to-forehead confrontation with X-man to save the Bulls






1993: Pippen good in the finals




Pippen shot 45.9% true shooting in the 93' Finals

That's worst-ever caliber, which is why the Bulls couldn't outscore the Suns in that series (both teams averaged 113.0 ppg)... If Pippen shot normally, the bulls blow out the suns

And Pippen had zero points in the 4th of Game 6, so MJ scored every single point, except paxson's shot .. Again, Pippen's weak performance is the only reason that series was close

[ArbitraryWater]

3ball where is the gif of mj running in direction of the double team

[Roundball_Rock]

The MJ stan deception is pathetic. Your post isn't even worth responding to.

[3ball]

3ball where is the gif of mj running in direction of the double team

Yes, a goat method to elude the double

Run towards the double-teamer, thus using his momentum against him, aikido-style

MJ developed this ability because he was getting doubled all the time

[3ball]

The MJ stan deception is pathetic. Your post isn't even worth responding to.

"I had to talk trash to the bully, so we all could gain confidence..."

- Jordan talking about his confrontation with X-man in Game 7 of 92' ECSF

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4wLW2UwkcG4&t=03m38s


MJ saved Pippen, who was beaten mentally again, like it's the Bad Boys all over again




The MJ stan deception is pathetic. Your post isn't even worth responding to.

My responses are simply informing you of the historical record, so there's no debate necessary.

X-man outplayed Pippen and bullied him, so MJ had the classic confrontation to save the bulls in game 7...

[Smoke117]

He played well defensively in every series.

Maybe more importantly than that, he was always available to play. During their championship runs Pippen didn't miss a single start. Same for Grant and Rodman - they were also always available to play.

Contrast that to Chris Bosh, Kevin Love, Kyrie Irving and Dwyane Wade. Not only did those guys not play defense, but because they were injury prone, they were often not even playing at all! And we're not just talking about being out one game, which would be bad enough, but most of those guys were out for an entire series or more!

So you'd rather have Pippen starting and playing below his best offensively versus Pippen being out and someone like Rodney McCray starting (which is more akin to what LeBron had to deal with).

Wade and Bosh didn't play defense? What? Wade was a great defensive player in 2011 and 2012. In 2013 and 2014 he basically fell off because of his knee issues. Throwing him in with Kyrie is just insulting. Bosh was also always solid.