1985 Bucks vs Bulls 1st round Playoffs

[Rico2016]

I just noticed MJ lost in the 1st round 3-1 but more importantly he never was the leading scorer for any game in this series.

Game 1: Moncrief: 30 points
Game 2: Cummings: 30 points, MJ 30 points
Game 3: Cummings: 37 points
Game 4: Cummings: 29 points. MJ 29 points

Jordan was narrowly outscored by Terry Cummings
MJ: 29.3 ppg
Cummings: 29.5 ppg

http://exnba.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/terry-cummings-nba-photos9.jpg

Some of Terry Cummings (Bucks #1 option) similarity scores are: David West and Paul Milsap and MJ lost to Terry Cummings as the #1 option.

Orlando Woolridge gave MJ 21 on 50% shooting too, and still lost.

Jordan also shot poorly (.436% fg) so is this why the refs were gifting him 14.5 free throws per game?

[Bronbron23]

I just noticed MJ lost in the 1st round 3-1 but more importantly he never was the leading scorer for any game in this series.

Game 1: Moncrief: 30 points
Game 2: Cummings: 30 points, MJ 30 points
Game 3: Cummings: 37 points
Game 4: Cummings: 29 points. MJ 29 points

Jordan was narrowly outscored by Terry Cummings
MJ: 29.3 ppg
Cummings: 29.5 ppg

http://exnba.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/terry-cummings-nba-photos9.jpg

Some of Terry Cummings (Bucks #1 option) similarity scores are: David West and Paul Milsap and MJ lost to Terry Cummings as the #1 option.

Orlando Woolridge gave MJ 21 on 50% shooting too, and still lost.

Jordan also shot poorly (.436% fg) so is this why the refs were gifting him 14.5 free throws per game?

so many things wrong here. For one cummings was nice and so were that bucks team. Second mj was a puppie. Are we judging players on their rookie playoffs now? If so magic is the goat which im actually fine with.

Second if you watched mj aa a rookie youd know he was lighting quick. He was near impossible for the initial defender to keep in frint of him and then near impossible for the help defense to contest because of his leaping ability. You had no choice but to foul and hope they dont call it

[86Celtics]

1. I thought that Jordan faced car mechanics and milkmen. The image suggests otherwise. You got to keep the narrative consistent, troll.
2. Jordan was a rookie.
3. Find another series in which he was outscored.

[Rico2016]

so many things wrong here. For one cummings was nice and so were that bucks team. Second mj was a puppie. Are we judging players on their rookie playoffs now? If so magic is the goat which im actually fine with.

Second if you watched mj aa a rookie youd know he was lighting quick. He was near impossible for the initial defender to keep in frint of him and then near impossible for the help defense to contest because of his leaping ability. You had no choice but to foul and hope they dont call it

So many things 'wrong' here? Such as what? MJ got his cheeks clapped by Terry Cummings. Nothing I said was wrong. MJ lost the series 3-1 in the 1st round with his #2 option giving him 21 on 50% shooting. I just post facts.

[Rico2016]

1. I thought that Jordan faced car mechanics and milkmen. The image suggests otherwise. You got to keep the narrative consistent, troll.
2. Jordan was a rookie.
3. Find another series in which he was outscored.

MJ lost to a 1990s first option David West...Quit it 3ball

[86Celtics]

You can't possibly be this stupid.

[Rico2016]

You can't possibly be this stupid.

86 "Celtics" fan eh? :lol FOH

[Roundball_Rock]

The line always is "MJ had no help." Let's compare leading "cast" members in the series. Cummings and Moncrief were both all-NBA second team but for our purposes here let's count Cummings, the leading scorer, as the #1 option since we are looking at offensive "help."

1985 Bulls

Woolridge 21/3/2 on 54% TS
Dailey 15/3/3 on 44% TS
Green 10/5/1 on 54% TS
Corzine 10/8/1 on 76% TS
Total: 56 PPG

1985 Bucks

Moncrief 27/5/5 72% TS
Pressey 15/5/7 63% TS
Pierce 10/3/2 47% TS
Mokeski 9/7/2 64% TS
Total: 61 PPG

Is 5 PPG some Earth shattering difference where 61 PPG is "stacked team" and 56 PPG "no help"?

The real difference is the Bucks were 2nd in defense and the Bulls 20th (of 23 teams. Which shows the importance of defense. All we ever hear from the MJ crowd is PPG but the Bulls never did anything without an elite defense.

I wanted to post this to show MJ stans that even when there was offensive support it didn't matter if there wasn't a defense to back it up. Look at those sky high TS % numbers for the Bucks players. Cummings himself shot 69% TS as well.

No defense, no chip.

[jayfan]

MJ lost to a 1990s first option David West...Quit it 3ball

Please stop. You're embarrassing yourself.

[Rico2016]

Please stop. You're embarrassing yourself.

Career stats
Terry Cummings: 16-7-2 on 48%
David West: 14-6-2 on 50%

All star appearances
Terry Cummings: 2
David West: 2

Peak ppg
Terry Cummings: 23
David West: 21

More similar than you think.

[Bronbron23]

So many things 'wrong' here? Such as what? MJ got his cheeks clapped by Terry Cummings. Nothing I said was wrong. MJ lost the series 3-1 in the 1st round with his #2 option giving him 21 on 50% shooting. I just post facts.

its not the facts thats wrong its what your insinuating. Your making it sound like its a reflection of mj when he was in fact a rookie. Im just not sure what the point of it all is.

[BigShotBob]

Any idea who Sidney Moncrief was?

[Duncan21formvp]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/arroyca01.html

Lebron lost to this guy.

[iamgine]

The line always is "MJ had no help." Let's compare leading "cast" members in the series. Cummings and Moncrief were both all-NBA second team but for our purposes here let's count Cummings, the leading scorer, as the #1 option since we are looking at offensive "help."

1985 Bulls

Woolridge 21/3/2 on 54% TS
Dailey 15/3/3 on 44% TS
Green 10/5/1 on 54% TS
Corzine 10/8/1 on 76% TS
Total: 56 PPG

1985 Bucks

Moncrief 27/5/5 72% TS
Pressey 15/5/7 63% TS
Pierce 10/3/2 47% TS
Mokeski 9/7/2 64% TS
Total: 61 PPG

Is 5 PPG some Earth shattering difference where 61 PPG is "stacked team" and 56 PPG "no help"?

The real difference is the Bucks were 2nd in defense and the Bulls 20th (of 23 teams. Which shows the importance of defense. All we ever hear from the MJ crowd is PPG but the Bulls never did anything without an elite defense.

I wanted to post this to show MJ stans that even when there was offensive support it didn't matter if there wasn't a defense to back it up. Look at those sky high TS % numbers for the Bucks players. Cummings himself shot 69% TS as well.

No defense, no chip.
Well a difference of 5 ppg with their opponent is usually a near bottom of the league team.

[Roundball_Rock]

Well a difference of 5 ppg with their opponent is usually a near bottom of the league team.

Jordan took more shots than anyone of his era and all-time (other than Baylor) so that doesn't leave much for the rest of the team.

[ELITEpower23]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/arroyca01.html

Lebron lost to this guy.

In the NBA? As a 1st option?

Please try again :lol

[Rico2016]

Terry Cummings

[jayfan]

What were Lebron's playoff numbers his rookie year?




.

[Rico2016]

What were Lebron's playoff numbers his rookie year?




.

By 22 he was in the Finals while MJ was getting his ass waxed by Terry Cummings

[jayfan]

By 22 he was in the Finals while MJ was getting his ass waxed by Terry Cummings

Interesting, but not an answer to the question.

[Roundball_Rock]

What were Lebron's playoff numbers his rookie year?


Why do MJ stans always bring this up? Comparing them as rookies in team impact is not favorable to MJ...

Jordan: joins a 27 win team, improves them to 38 wins.
LeBron: joins a 17 win team, improves them to 35 wins.

The high school player had a greater impact on his team than the "GOAT" who supposedly was the greatest college player ever? That is something I would try to avoid if I were a MJ stan...

When Jordan started 70% of the league made the playoffs; in LeBron's time it was about half the league.

[jayfan]

Why do MJ stans always bring this up? Comparing them as rookies in team impact is not favorable to MJ...

Jordan: joins a 27 win team, improves them to 38 wins.
LeBron: joins a 17 win team, improves them to 35 wins.

The high school player had a greater impact on his team than the "GOAT" who supposedly was the greatest college player ever? That is something I would try to avoid if I were a MJ stan...

When Jordan started 70% of the league made the playoffs; in LeBron's time it was about half the league.

1. No idea why/if it's been brought up before. I'm bringing it up here because a Bron stan created a thread criticizing Jordan's playoff numbers his rookie year while his idol missed the playoffs altogether his rookie year. Decent time to bring it up.

2. Comparing the Eastern Conference in 1984 to the Eastern Conference in 2003 is like comparing the Yankees to a little league team.

3. No one claims Jordan to be the greatest college player ever. You're creating your own straw man.

[tpols]

86 "Celtics" fan eh? :lol FOH

he being a Celtic fan and simultaneously calling you out for your own stupidity aren't mutually exclusive events.

[HoopsNY]

What a shitty post. Anyone who knows anything about that time knows that Terry Cummings was one of the best up and coming players. He joined a Clippers team and they increased their win total from 17 to 25, winning Rookie of the Year honors in 1983. His entrance into the league was remarkable and at the time, he was easily one of the best players in the league for his first five seasons.

The Bucks were a 50 win team with Marques Johnson and Moncrief at the helm and then deal Johnson for Cummings in a packaged deal. The Bucks won 59 games after adding Cummings and were one of the elite defensive teams in the league that season. Cummings went for nearly 24 ppg and 9 rebounds including finishing 5th in MVP voting and winning All-NBA 2nd team honors.

David West was never in MVP contention, never won All-NBA honors, and wasn't even rookie of the year. In fact, let's look at David West's best year (arguably 2007-08) to Cummings' 1984-85 season:

Cummings: 23.6/9.1/2.9/1.5/0.8 on 50% shooting
West: 20.6/8.9/2.3/0.8/1.3 on 48% shooting

Advanced Numbers - Cummings

PER: 22.1
TS%: .536%
WS: 10.7
WS/48: .189
BMP: 4.3
VORP: 4.3

Advanced Numbers - West

PER: 19.9
TS%: .535
WS: 8.4
WS/48: .140
BPM: 1.5
VORP: 2.6

How about the playoffs for those respective years?

Cummings: 27.5/8.8/2.5/1.5/0.9 on 58%
West: 21.2/8.5/2.8/1.1/1.9 on 47%

The Bucks were an excellent team during the early to mid 80s and there is no denying this. They had an elite defense and the combination of Johnson/Moncrief followed by Cummings/Moncrief were both formidable duos.

You think there is some kind of shame in a 7th seed that won 38 games with a rookie Mj that ranked 14th in SRS losing to a #2 seed that won 59 games, ranked #2 in defense, #1 in Opp PPG, and #1 in SRS? Give me a break. How old are you, seriously?

[HoopsNY]

The line always is "MJ had no help." Let's compare leading "cast" members in the series. Cummings and Moncrief were both all-NBA second team but for our purposes here let's count Cummings, the leading scorer, as the #1 option since we are looking at offensive "help."

1985 Bulls

Woolridge 21/3/2 on 54% TS
Dailey 15/3/3 on 44% TS
Green 10/5/1 on 54% TS
Corzine 10/8/1 on 76% TS
Total: 56 PPG

1985 Bucks

Moncrief 27/5/5 72% TS
Pressey 15/5/7 63% TS
Pierce 10/3/2 47% TS
Mokeski 9/7/2 64% TS
Total: 61 PPG

Is 5 PPG some Earth shattering difference where 61 PPG is "stacked team" and 56 PPG "no help"?

The real difference is the Bucks were 2nd in defense and the Bulls 20th (of 23 teams. Which shows the importance of defense. All we ever hear from the MJ crowd is PPG but the Bulls never did anything without an elite defense.

I wanted to post this to show MJ stans that even when there was offensive support it didn't matter if there wasn't a defense to back it up. Look at those sky high TS % numbers for the Bucks players. Cummings himself shot 69% TS as well.

No defense, no chip.

I find it funny that this bozo Rico posts another tear down post and this is what you come up with? This is why I called you disingenuous before. You can't seem to be objective when it comes to MJ and any post that is clearly an erroneous attack against him turns into you supporting it with some arbitrary metrics in an effort to tear him down as well. You're too intelligent for this because you're referring to MJ stans on a post that is written by an an obvious troll.

[Rico2016]

I find it funny that this bozo Rico posts another tear down post and this is what you come up with? This is why I called you disingenuous before. You can't seem to be objective when it comes to MJ and any post that is clearly an erroneous attack against him turns into you supporting it with some arbitrary metrics in an effort to tear him down as well. You're too intelligent for this because you're referring to MJ stans on a post that is written by an an obvious troll.

I can't think of anything more ironic than a 3ball alt calling me a troll.

Pretty impressive I must say, to have someone at your level of trolldom call someome else a troll. And I don't troll, I post facts. Focus on Terry Cummings please.

[HoopsNY]

Feel free to show me the "troll" threads that I created. I rarely create threads. Most of the time I'm responding to other threads created by other users.

I know it's unbelievable to people such as yourself that someone can recognize the magnitude of the greatness of MJ and not be 3ball. I'm sorry that hurts your feelings. But if you thought that this was somehow some kind of "educated" thread, then consider what you're doing.

Not only are you ridiculously drawing an erroneous conclusion about MJ, but you're tearing down an excellent team with an excellent player, one who finished top 5 in MVP voting and selected to All-NBA 2nd team honors. Then to add to this absurd level of stupidity, you draw a comparison with David West.

I like David West. But I also loved Charles Oakley. You wouldn't find me drawing some comparison between a 2001 Chris Webber and Oakley, for example. And the example that you gave is even worse.

So for once, can you AT LEAST TRY posting something objective?

[Roundball_Rock]

This is why I called you disingenuous before.

You can't seem to be objective when it comes to MJ

What is "disingenuous" about pointing out the reality of the Jordan party line?


Is 5 PPG some Earth shattering difference where 61 PPG is "stacked team" and 56 PPG "no help"?

The real difference is the Bucks were 2nd in defense and the Bulls 20th (of 23 teams. Which shows the importance of defense. All we ever hear from the MJ crowd is PPG but the Bulls never did anything without an elite defense.

Again, what is disingenuous about this? Both got similar offensive "help"; one team had no defense. I didn't say "Jordan is a fraud, he got all this scoring help and lost!" That would be unfair and be consistent with your claim.

Jordan fans do it to themselves. We constantly hear it was all him when they won; when they lost it was all the team. The obvious implication here is the team massively improved between Point A and Point Z...but MJ stans want it both ways. So it was him and new scrubs but somehow those other scrubs weren't enough before?


Feel free to show me the "troll" threads that I created. I rarely create threads

Let's apply that logic to your claim: I haven't posted a MJ thread in 4-5 years. :lol


I know it's unbelievable to people such as yourself that someone can recognize the magnitude of the greatness of MJ

The thing people notice is the defensiveness "non-MJ fans" seem to have towards a player they profess not to be fans of--which is not present when a laundry list of other players get attacked on ISH. That raises the obvious question. I don't think you are 3ball but your defensiveness of MJ will get noticed.


Not only are you ridiculously drawing an erroneous conclusion about MJ

You are complaining about other posts and posters without saying what exactly your beef is. What is your alternative version?


one who finished top 5 in MVP voting and selected to All-NBA 2nd team honors

Players have finished 3rd in MVP voting and 1st in all-NBA voting and been called bums by MJ fans...

[HoopsNY]

What is "disingenuous" about pointing out the reality of the Jordan party line?



Again, what is disingenuous about this? Both got similar offensive "help"; one team had no defense. I didn't say "Jordan is a fraud, he got all this scoring help and lost!" That would be unfair and be consistent with your claim.

Jordan fans do it to themselves. We constantly hear it was all him when they won; when they lost it was all the team. The obvious implication here is the team massively improved between Point A and Point Z...but MJ stans want it both ways. So it was him and new scrubs but somehow those other scrubs weren't enough before?



Let's apply that logic to your claim: I haven't posted a MJ thread in 4-5 years. :lol



The thing people notice is the defensiveness "non-MJ fans" seem to have towards a player they profess not to be fans of--which is not present when a laundry list of other players get attacked on ISH. That raises the obvious question. I don't think you are 3ball but your defensiveness of MJ will get noticed.



You are complaining about other posts and posters without saying what exactly your beef is. What is your alternative version?



Players have finished 3rd in MVP voting and 1st in all-NBA voting and been called bums by MJ fans...

Uhh....Roundball?

That response was to Rico, not you.

[HoopsNY]

What is "disingenuous" about pointing out the reality of the Jordan party line?



Again, what is disingenuous about this? Both got similar offensive "help"; one team had no defense. I didn't say "Jordan is a fraud, he got all this scoring help and lost!" That would be unfair and be consistent with your claim.

You can't seem to see the forest for the trees. The post is clearly about the "failure" of MJ losing to some "scrub" who is the "equivalent" to David West. Your aim should be there. Instead, you go off on another arbitrary tangent, without addressing the misconceptions of the OP. THAT is disingenuous. You're simply jumping in for the sake of jumping as if it's "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" being at play here.


Jordan fans do it to themselves. We constantly hear it was all him when they won; when they lost it was all the team. The obvious implication here is the team massively improved between Point A and Point Z...but MJ stans want it both ways. So it was him and new scrubs but somehow those other scrubs weren't enough before?

The team did improve. I'm not sure who says otherwise. To think the team in 1984-85 was the same as it was in say, 1988-89, is ridiculous. The team was a lot better with the addition of Pippen, Cartwright, Grant, and the maturity of MJ.

[Roundball_Rock]

You quoted me. :confusedshrug:

[HoopsNY]

Yea but most of what you quoted was directed at Rico, not at you.

[Roundball_Rock]

Yea but most of what you quoted was directed at Rico, not at you.

Got it! :lol :cheers:

[HoopsNY]

Got it! :lol :cheers:

I apologize. I should have quoted him in the response first to make it clear.

[Rico2016]

What a shitty post. Anyone who knows anything about that time knows that Terry Cummings was one of the best up and coming players. He joined a Clippers team and they increased their win total from 17 to 25, winning Rookie of the Year honors in 1983. His entrance into the league was remarkable and at the time, he was easily one of the best players in the league for his first five seasons.

The Bucks were a 50 win team with Marques Johnson and Moncrief at the helm and then deal Johnson for Cummings in a packaged deal. The Bucks won 59 games after adding Cummings and were one of the elite defensive teams in the league that season. Cummings went for nearly 24 ppg and 9 rebounds including finishing 5th in MVP voting and winning All-NBA 2nd team honors.

David West was never in MVP contention, never won All-NBA honors, and wasn't even rookie of the year. In fact, let's look at David West's best year (arguably 2007-08) to Cummings' 1984-85 season:

Cummings: 23.6/9.1/2.9/1.5/0.8 on 50% shooting
West: 20.6/8.9/2.3/0.8/1.3 on 48% shooting

Advanced Numbers - Cummings

PER: 22.1
TS%: .536%
WS: 10.7
WS/48: .189
BMP: 4.3
VORP: 4.3

Advanced Numbers - West

PER: 19.9
TS%: .535
WS: 8.4
WS/48: .140
BPM: 1.5
VORP: 2.6

How about the playoffs for those respective years?

Cummings: 27.5/8.8/2.5/1.5/0.9 on 58%
West: 21.2/8.5/2.8/1.1/1.9 on 47%

The Bucks were an excellent team during the early to mid 80s and there is no denying this. They had an elite defense and the combination of Johnson/Moncrief followed by Cummings/Moncrief were both formidable duos.

You think there is some kind of shame in a 7th seed that won 38 games with a rookie Mj that ranked 14th in SRS losing to a #2 seed that won 59 games, ranked #2 in defense, #1 in Opp PPG, and #1 in SRS? Give me a break. How old are you, seriously?

Are you really posting these stats like the two players are that far off? This lengthy post is only backing up the notion that they were very similar players. No shame in losing. All players, but some lose in the Finals and some get a downgrade and lose in the 1st round instead.

[HoopsNY]

Are you really posting these stats like the two players are that far off? This lengthy post is only backing up the notion that they were very similar players. No shame in losing. All players, but some lose in the Finals and some get a downgrade and lose in the 1st round instead.

Because they are that far off. Maybe you didn't read through all of my post. Cummings was top 5 in MVP voting that year. He finished ahead of Jordan, Hakeem, Sampson, Isiah, Moncrief, King, Nique, Dr. J, Richardson.

He finished All-NBA 2nd team, beating out guys like Dr. J, Clavin Natt, Dominique Wilkins, Kevin McHale, etc. West's best season didn't see that kind of recognition.

Cummings finished top 20 in MVP voting 4 times. West has seen none. Cummings was 8th in PER that season. How about West in 2007-08? In fact, Cummings was top 20 in PER 5 times in his career. West was never top 20 in PER, ever. Cummings was 9th in WS and WS/48 that season. West's best finish in WS/48 and WS came in 2012-13 where he was 18th and 19th, respectively.

And did you look at the playoff numbers? How does 27.5 ppg on 58% somehow equate to 21.2 on 47%? If you tell me it's a small sample size, then fine, let's go with both players' best playoff/prime years.

Cummings from 1985-92: 22.4/8.9/2.3 with 1.1/0.8 on 51% shooting
West from 2008-14: 16.7/7.7/2.7 with 0.8/0.9 on 46% shooting

So no, it's not close. All you're trying to do here is minimize Terry Cummings in order to diminish Jordan's rookie performance against Milwaukee in the playoffs. It's not working. Why? Cause you're wrong.

[HoopsNY]

Terry Cummings

Lol, look at this. You post "Terry Cummings" like it's some kind of insult.

[Shooter]

Are you really posting these stats like the two players are that far off? This lengthy post is only backing up the notion that they were very similar players. No shame in losing. All players, but some lose in the Finals and some get a downgrade and lose in the 1st round instead.

:roll:

[TheCorporation]

Not even for 1 game was MJ the top scorer?


Those Bucks hit him with the Terry Clamps

[Bawkish]

Not even for 1 game was MJ the top scorer?


Those Bucks hit him with the Terry Clamps

as a Lebrontard, this shouldn't be surprising to you at all

imagine a tomato can outscoring your idol in his prime, in the Finals

[TheCorporation]

as a Lebrontard, this shouldn't be surprising to you at all

imagine a tomato can outscoring your idol in his prime, in the Finals

Yeah that's what the thread is about :lol

Tomato can Terry outscoring MJ

[Bawkish]

Yeah that's what the thread is about :lol

Tomato can Terry outscoring MJ

There's only one tomato can Terry, definitely not this one

Tomato can JTerry canned your idol in his prime so bad he was branded as a "pippen" :lol

[TheCorporation]

There's only one tomato can Terry, definitely not this one

Tomato can JTerry canned your idol in his prime so bad he was branded as a "pippen" :lol

Tomato can Terry SWEPT your idol :lol

Clean sweep. Bye-bye :lol

Come back with Pip or not at all!

[BigtimeNBAFan]

Jordan wasn't a puppy. He was a 22 year old rookie in the playoffs. At 22 Jordan lost to the lowly Bucks in the first round. At 22, Lebron took a crap team to the finals. Quit making excuses for Jordan. He didn't get it done, end of story.

[Gohan]

Wasn’t Jordan just a rookie that season? Why is op sweating him that hard? Crab in the bucket ass nikka

[FromDowntown]

Jordan wasn't a puppy. He was a 22 year old rookie in the playoffs. At 22 Jordan lost to the lowly Bucks in the first round. At 22, Lebron took a crap team to the finals. Quit making excuses for Jordan. He didn't get it done, end of story.

He was failing hard at a putrid 1-9 clip until...

ALONG CAME SCOTTIE

Scottie taught MJ how to play defense and how to win. Pippen turned Allen Iverson into LeBron basically.

[Gohan]

Yea only difference was iverson was just a six foot guard and lebron 6’8. Talent wise iverson>>>lebron

[FromDowntown]

Yea only difference was iverson was just a six foot guard and lebron 6’8. Talent wise iverson>>>lebron

Talent means...No chips? Average defense? Inefficient chucker?

Nah. 7,048 good luck catch up league

[Gohan]

Lebron left his team to basically cheat to win championships. Don’t give me that crap

[And1AllDay]

I just noticed MJ lost in the 1st round 3-1 but more importantly he never was the leading scorer for any game in this series.

Game 1: Moncrief: 30 points
Game 2: Cummings: 30 points, MJ 30 points
Game 3: Cummings: 37 points
Game 4: Cummings: 29 points. MJ 29 points

Jordan was narrowly outscored by Terry Cummings
MJ: 29.3 ppg
Cummings: 29.5 ppg

http://exnba.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/terry-cummings-nba-photos9.jpg

Some of Terry Cummings (Bucks #1 option) similarity scores are: David West and Paul Milsap and MJ lost to Terry Cummings as the #1 option.

Orlando Woolridge gave MJ 21 on 50% shooting too, and still lost.

Jordan also shot poorly (.436% fg) so is this why the refs were gifting him 14.5 free throws per game?

wow imagine losing in the 1st round (4x worse than a finals loss) to terry cumming

[And1AllDay]

I just noticed MJ lost in the 1st round 3-1 but more importantly he never was the leading scorer for any game in this series.

Game 1: Moncrief: 30 points
Game 2: Cummings: 30 points, MJ 30 points
Game 3: Cummings: 37 points
Game 4: Cummings: 29 points. MJ 29 points

Jordan was narrowly outscored by Terry Cummings
MJ: 29.3 ppg
Cummings: 29.5 ppg

http://exnba.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/terry-cummings-nba-photos9.jpg

Some of Terry Cummings (Bucks #1 option) similarity scores are: David West and Paul Milsap and MJ lost to Terry Cummings as the #1 option.

Orlando Woolridge gave MJ 21 on 50% shooting too, and still lost.

Jordan also shot poorly (.436% fg) so is this why the refs were gifting him 14.5 free throws per game?

BRING RICO BACK

freeee ricoooooooooooooooooo

[Bronbron23]

Wait who did lebron lose to in 06? Who was that teams best player?:facepalm

[Shooter]

Wait who did lebron lose to in 06? Who was that teams best player?:facepalm

Terrence Cummings

[72-10]

I watched film of this whole series a long time ago, but it's been so long that I forget what the film was like. I'd blame Moncrief, he was such a tenacious lockdown defender, for Michael's scoring woes in the series. Mike actually tied for the lead twice in the series (Games 2 and 4 - one of his drug-abusing teammates the late Quintin Dailey scored more from the bench in the opening game, although Q managed only 1 rebound, 2 assists and 1 steal in starters' minutes to Michael's 4 rebounds, 10 assists and 3 steals), and he got a combo of at least two steals and/or blocked shots in each game in the series, and in most of them quite a bit more.

For the series, Michael came up with 11 steals and 4 blocked shots and was probably the best offensive player and best defensive player in the playoff series that he made (in the loaded Eastern Conference) for either side, quite impressive for a rookie.

[72-10]

Terrence Cummings

who is that?

btw, do you think there is any chance Darren Morningstar is a Junior?

[Shooter]

who is that?

btw, do you think there is any chance Darren Morningstar is a Junior?

Terry Cummings

[Lebron23]

They only won 37 games, and they made it to the playoffs in 1985. Team LeBron won 38 and 42 games in 2004 and 2005. And they missed the playoffs. Unbelievable.

[kawhileonard2]

Lebron left his team to basically cheat to win championships. Don’t give me that crap

This!

[TheCorporation]

I just noticed MJ lost in the 1st round 3-1 but more importantly he never was the leading scorer for any game in this series.

Game 1: Moncrief: 30 points
Game 2: Cummings: 30 points, MJ 30 points
Game 3: Cummings: 37 points
Game 4: Cummings: 29 points. MJ 29 points

Jordan was narrowly outscored by Terry Cummings
MJ: 29.3 ppg
Cummings: 29.5 ppg

http://exnba.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/terry-cummings-nba-photos9.jpg

Some of Terry Cummings (Bucks #1 option) similarity scores are: David West and Paul Milsap and MJ lost to Terry Cummings as the #1 option.

Orlando Woolridge gave MJ 21 on 50% shooting too, and still lost.

Jordan also shot poorly (.436% fg) so is this why the refs were gifting him 14.5 free throws per game?

You mean to tell me Jordan was gifted 15 free throws per game and was never the leading scorer for a single game in the series AND he was outscored by Terry Cummings? :wtf:

[3ball]

I just noticed MJ lost in the 1st round 3-1 but more importantly he never was the leading scorer for any game in this series.

Game 1: Moncrief: 30 points
Game 2: Cummings: 30 points, MJ 30 points
Game 3: Cummings: 37 points
Game 4: Cummings: 29 points. MJ 29 points

Jordan was narrowly outscored by Terry Cummings
MJ: 29.3 ppg
Cummings: 29.5 ppg

http://exnba.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/terry-cummings-nba-photos9.jpg

Some of Terry Cummings (Bucks #1 option) similarity scores are: David West and Paul Milsap and MJ lost to Terry Cummings as the #1 option.

Orlando Woolridge gave MJ 21 on 50% shooting too, and still lost.

Jordan also shot poorly (.436% fg) so is this why the refs were gifting him 14.5 free throws per game?


According to you, it's bad that Jordan was outscored once in his career by the 5th place MVP (Cummings), but it's completely fine and infact goat to get outscored by teammates in 4 different series and 2 playoff runs, and also by several opponents from Jason Terry to Kevin Durant.

Btw, those Bucks were better than any team Lebron beat in the East, and Jordan had a cast weaker than lebron's lottery 05' cast (which had the East all-star center)

[Hey Yo]

James beat the top seeded Bulls with MVP Rose.

2011 Bulls >>>> 1985 Bucks

[3ball]

James beat the top seeded Bulls with MVP Rose.

2011 Bulls >>>> 1985 Bucks


2011 PLAYOFFS PPG

WADE......... 24.5
LEBRON..... 23.7


So lebron was the "pippen", which makes any point you were making moot

Lebron had a super-team in a conference that 1-star teams were routinely winning, while MJ had lottery help in a conference that required a super-team to win it

[TheCorporation]

You mean to tell me Jordan was gifted 15 free throws per game and was never the leading scorer for a single game in the series AND he was outscored by Terry Cummings? :wtf:

3ball?

[Hey Yo]

2011 PLAYOFFS PPG

WADE......... 24.5
LEBRON..... 23.7


So lebron was the "pippen", which makes any point you were making moot

Lebron had a super-team in a conference that 1-star teams were routinely winning, while MJ had lottery help in a conference that required a super-team to win it
Wade 18-6-2 while shooting 40%

[DoctorP]

garbage

[TheGoatest]

After nearly sweeping the Bulls in the 1st round, that 1985 Bucks team went on to:

lose 0-4 to the Sixers in the 2nd round, who went on to
lose 1-4 to the Celtics in the conference finals, who went on to
lose 2-4 to the Lakers in the finals

Those Bucks sure seemed like an insurmountable opponent. :rolleyes:
But the most inexcusable choke job of Jordan's pre-Pippen years came in the 1986-87 season, when he had a 40-42 season and finished behind the 0-all star Bucks and Pacers in the seedings.

[Shooter]

After nearly sweeping the Bulls in the 1st round, that 1985 Bucks team went on to:

lose 0-4 to the Sixers in the 2nd round, who went on to
lose 1-4 to the Celtics in the conference finals, who went on to
lose 2-4 to the Lakers in the finals

Those Bucks sure seemed like an insurmountable opponent. :rolleyes:
But the most inexcusable choke job of Jordan's pre-Pippen years came in the 1986-87 season, when he had a 40-42 season and finished behind the 0-all star Bucks and Pacers in the seedings.

Imagine Lebron losing in the 1st round to a scrub team like that :lol

[Marchesk]

https://2kmtcentral.com/img/generated/20/players/9183i1.png/cache-1600265638/9183i1.png

Kind of reminds me of Zion.

[3ball]

https://2kmtcentral.com/img/generated/20/players/9183i1.png/cache-1600265638/9183i1.png

Kind of reminds me of Zion.


^^^ #5 for MVP in 85'

So according to OP, it's bad that Jordan was outscored once in his career by the 5th place MVP (Cummings), but it's completely fine and infact goat to get outscored by teammates in 4 different series and 2 playoff runs, and also by several opponents from Jason Terry to Kevin Durant.

Btw, those Bucks were better than any team Lebron beat in the East, and Jordan had a cast weaker than lebron's lottery 05' cast (which had the East all-star center)

[Hey Yo]

^^^ #5 for MVP in 85'

So according to OP, it's bad that Jordan was outscored once in his career by the 5th place MVP (Cummings), but it's completely fine and infact goat to get outscored by teammates in 4 different series and 2 playoff runs, and also by several opponents from Jason Terry to Kevin Durant.

Btw, those Bucks were better than any team Lebron beat in the East, and Jordan had a cast weaker than lebron's lottery 05' cast (which had the East all-star center)
James beat the top seeded Bulls with MVP Rose.

2011 Bulls >>>> 1985 Bucks

[Shooter]

https://2kmtcentral.com/img/generated/20/players/9183i1.png/cache-1600265638/9183i1.png

Kind of reminds me of Zion.

*David West

[Shooter]

^^^ #5 for MVP in 85'

So according to OP, it's bad that Jordan was outscored once in his career by the 5th place MVP (Cummings), but it's completely fine and infact goat to get outscored by teammates in 4 different series and 2 playoff runs, and also by several opponents from Jason Terry to Kevin Durant.

Btw, those Bucks were better than any team Lebron beat in the East, and Jordan had a cast weaker than lebron's lottery 05' cast (which had the East all-star center)

All MJ could do is score, Pippen did the rest

[8Ball]

According to you, it's bad that Jordan was outscored once in his career by the 5th place MVP (Cummings), but it's completely fine and infact goat to get outscored by teammates in 4 different series and 2 playoff runs, and also by several opponents from Jason Terry to Kevin Durant.

Btw, those Bucks were better than any team Lebron beat in the East, and Jordan had a cast weaker than lebron's lottery 05' cast (which had the East all-star center)

LeBron has a bigger skillset than Jordan offensively. Jordan can only score, and has passing ability like Kyrie Irving. Mediocre.

3ball doesn't yet understand that basketball is 5v5. And LeBron is superior to Jordan because he sets up the other 4 players for scoring passes.

This is elementary even for 10 year olds.

[Shooter]

LeBron has a bigger skillset than Jordan offensively. Jordan can only score, and has passing ability like Kyrie Irving. Mediocre.

3ball doesn't yet understand that basketball is 5v5. And LeBron is superior to Jordan because he sets up the other 4 players for scoring passes.

This is elementary even for 10 year olds.

Is there no one else?

[TheCorporation]

I just noticed MJ lost in the 1st round 3-1 but more importantly he never was the leading scorer for any game in this series.

Game 1: Moncrief: 30 points
Game 2: Cummings: 30 points, MJ 30 points
Game 3: Cummings: 37 points
Game 4: Cummings: 29 points. MJ 29 points

Jordan was narrowly outscored by Terry Cummings
MJ: 29.3 ppg
Cummings: 29.5 ppg

http://exnba.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/terry-cummings-nba-photos9.jpg

Some of Terry Cummings (Bucks #1 option) similarity scores are: David West and Paul Milsap and MJ lost to Terry Cummings as the #1 option.

Orlando Woolridge gave MJ 21 on 50% shooting too, and still lost.

Jordan also shot poorly (.436% fg) so is this why the refs were gifting him 14.5 free throws per game?

https://i.postimg.cc/sgqSfpMP/Well-well-well.png

[Shooter]

https://i.postimg.cc/sgqSfpMP/Well-well-well.png

WHO???? David West?

[Shooter]

I just noticed MJ lost in the 1st round 3-1 but more importantly he never was the leading scorer for any game in this series.

Game 1: Moncrief: 30 points
Game 2: Cummings: 30 points, MJ 30 points
Game 3: Cummings: 37 points
Game 4: Cummings: 29 points. MJ 29 points

Jordan was narrowly outscored by Terry Cummings
MJ: 29.3 ppg
Cummings: 29.5 ppg

http://exnba.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/terry-cummings-nba-photos9.jpg

Some of Terry Cummings (Bucks #1 option) similarity scores are: David West and Paul Milsap and MJ lost to Terry Cummings as the #1 option.

Orlando Woolridge gave MJ 21 on 50% shooting too, and still lost.

Jordan also shot poorly (.436% fg) so is this why the refs were gifting him 14.5 free throws per game?

The lines are wide open, step right up folks :lol

[000]

WHO???? David West?
"Can he guard Jason Terry?"

[kawhileonard2]

Imagine Lebron losing in the 1st round to a scrub team like that :lol

The same Bucks that swept the Celtics two years earlier. Hell Lebron lost with HCA to a team who the season before lost in round 1 to Dallas in 2011

[kawhileonard2]

Jason Terry outscored Lebron in the finals. So did Tony Parker.

[000]

Jason Terry outscored Lebron in the finals. So did Tony Parker.
Jj barea matched him in g4. Lmao

[97 bulls]

I blame Jordan trolls You guys opened up pandora box and started this when you stated that Jordan won those championships by himself.

[Shooter]

I blame Jordan trolls You guys opened up pandora box and started this when you stated that Jordan won those championships by himself.

Facts. MJ is a great player but the trolls brought it on themselves.

[And1AllDay]

I just noticed MJ lost in the 1st round 3-1 but more importantly he never was the leading scorer for any game in this series.

Game 1: Moncrief: 30 points
Game 2: Cummings: 30 points, MJ 30 points
Game 3: Cummings: 37 points
Game 4: Cummings: 29 points. MJ 29 points

Jordan was narrowly outscored by Terry Cummings
MJ: 29.3 ppg
Cummings: 29.5 ppg

http://exnba.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/terry-cummings-nba-photos9.jpg

Some of Terry Cummings (Bucks #1 option) similarity scores are: David West and Paul Milsap and MJ lost to Terry Cummings as the #1 option.

Orlando Woolridge gave MJ 21 on 50% shooting too, and still lost.

Jordan also shot poorly (.436% fg) so is this why the refs were gifting him 14.5 free throws per game?

freeee ricoooo

[Jasper]

Any idea who Sidney Moncrief was?

prancing prince (one of the best defenders in the 80's and possibly the best rebounding guard in NBA history)

[ClipperRevival]

Jason Terry outscored Lebron in the finals. So did Tony Parker.

I had to look it up for myself to make sure. Indeed. 2007. Think wheels might pull the plug.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/1dc8bbbfd46b45844bf217b861756739/tenor.gif?itemid=11418775