Giannis has the potential to be a top 5 player of all-time.

[Turbo Slayer]

He has the ability to do just that.

[Uncle Drew]

Okay, and now what?

[Axe]

He has the ability to do just that.
He needs to prove that in this decade

[MrFonzworth]

OP is from Puerto Rico

[Turbo Slayer]

OP is from Puerto Rico I actually live in the USA. New York state to be specific.

[Roundball_Rock]

The sky is the limit for him.

[light]

He has the ability to do just that.

I'm not sure about that.

His pedigree indicates that he'll fall short of that.

The current top 5 were all instant impact guys. Within a year they were superstars, and some were superstars even before entering the league.

The 4 year ramp up for Giannis foreshadows his future, imo. Water always finds its level as they say.

After 7 seasons his career average is still only 20/4/9. That is telling us something i.e. dont be fooled by his peak.

This is the same issue with a guy like Kawhi.

[soots]

Curry and Giannis can still make Goat status imo.

They need a lot going for them, but they still have a lot of years ahead and a very good resume

[Rico2016]

Curry and Giannis can still make Goat status imo.

They need a lot going for them, but they still have a lot of years ahead and a very good resume

They would need to do a lot to get there, but it's not impossible because they are still youngish. Top 5 is nearly cemented though:

Top 3 CEMENTED
LeBron
Kareem
Russell

Following two
Shaq
Jordan?

So Curry or Giannis would have to push out Shaq or Jordan. Tough, but I guess it's possible.

[riggyrich]

I'm not sure about that.

His pedigree indicates that he'll fall short of that.

The current top 5 were all instant impact guys. Within a year they were superstars, and some were superstars even before entering the league.

The 4 year ramp up for Giannis foreshadows his future, imo. Water always finds its level as they say.

After 7 seasons his career average is still only 20/4/9. That is telling us something i.e. dont be fooled by his peak.

This is the same issue with a guy like Kawhi.

Kobe's first 2 years weren't great either. It's called improving lol.

[HoopsNY]

Let's wait and see what he does in the playoffs. A lot of people thought Charles Barkley would end up top 10. He certainly had the skills and athleticism to accomplish that, but things didn't exactly pan out that way. It will be interesting to see how Giannis' career goes over the next 5 years in particular.

I'm rooting for him, but I feel his heavy reliance on the fake left, spin right or fake left and go right, without an arsenal of post moves or outside shot will ultimately hurt him when it matters the most.

He's an amazing athletic specimen but has to improve in some areas.

[Roundball_Rock]

True--but one key difference is Barkley won 1 MVP in his entire career. Giannis is going to have 2 by age 25. Only KAJ and LeBron have had 2+ MVP's at that age I believe.

[dbugz]

already better than libron who's top 11-15ish on the goat list, so yes.

[Rico2016]

already better than libron who's top 11-15ish on the goat list, so yes.

Well...lol No

LeBron is already ahead of MJ so if Giannis is ahead of LBJ he is obviously ahead of MJ.

Top 3 CEMENTED

LBJ, KAJ, Russell

Next two

Shaq, MJ

That is top 5. Giannis could push Shaq or MJ out, possibly. Cracking into the top 3 though? Not a chance.

[riggyrich]

7ft with coordination. Athleticism comparison to Lebron and is starting to get his jump shot going. My friends.... This guy is going to be a top 10 for sure.

[riggyrich]

Well...lol No

LeBron is already ahead of MJ so if Giannis is ahead of LBJ he is obviously ahead of MJ.

Top 3 CEMENTED

LBJ, KAJ, Russell

Next two

Shaq, MJ

That is top 5. Giannis could push Shaq or MJ out, possibly. Cracking into the top 3 though? Not a chance.

You put shaq over MJ man. Cmon....

KAJ is a monster, but people forgot what Magic did during those years man. Look at magics stats when he was carrying. The man dropped 40 and a triple double as a rookie. I'm sorry, Magic over Kareem.

MY top 3: MJ, Lebron, Magic.

Bill Russell played during a time when there was like 3 other 7ft black men, That shit aint fair lol.

[Roundball_Rock]

KAJ is a monster, but people forgot what Magic did during those years man.

Yes, but in a way that is favorable to him. People conflate late 80's Magic with early 80's Magic. Yeah, he averaged 9 APG but Nixon averaged 8 APG from 1980-1983 during the same time frame on the same teams.

[PeroAntic]

Giannis got exposed at the last World Championship. Nobody who has been shown to be that one dimensional can be top 5 all time.

[tpols]

his talent in a vacuum is nowhere near top 5 GOAT let alone even top 25 GOAT.

the guy just dribble charges in to the paint every possession for a layup or dunk. And if the defense sags 15 feet off takes a baby deer jumper.

He would be dikembe mutumbo in past eras which is still nice, but he's gotten a huge boost from today's era of spacing, monopolizing, and palming.

[Roundball_Rock]

He would be dikembe mutumbo in past eras

:facepalm

[Rico2016]

:facepalm

tpols can't be taken seriously either :lol Big time racist and Kobe lover at the same time, WITH a cartoon character avatar. Weird fellow

[bizil]

It's gonna come down to rings, durability, and longevity. In general, he could be the best PF ever peak-prime wise at some point. I like to see guys be on a superstar level for at least 5 years to give them that mantle for sure. He's just about at that point. He's like an evolution to what KG brought to the table. A positionless 7 foot phenom who is a freak athlete, great passer, great rebounder, and great rebounder in one package. Scoring wise, KG was in that very good to great type of area. Giannis is a more dominant scorer than KG was. Even though KG's scoring skillset was more skilled.

But IF he wins rings, who knows how high he could climb up the charts. He needs to concentrate FIRST on being the GOAT PF. He's gonna need at least 3 rings to pass Duncan by on the GOAT PF charts. I don't think he'll need five IF his numbers continue to be this dominant. Solo accolades, Peak-prime value, numbers, and redefining a position can make up for NOT having as many rings as Duncan. If he wins NO RINGS, then no chances he's a top 5 GOAT.

[Kblaze8855]

Tpols really is one of the worst posters here among those who attempt to give off a “serious fan” vibe and act like they really care about the intricacies of the sport. Even if Mutombo were half the athlete Giannis is to make it a better comparison....his obvious hating comparison is to a hall of famer? Which when you consider he thinks Giannis is bad at basketball is pretty hilarious.

Has virtually no appreciation for any aspect of basketball but handles and shooting which is why he reps the likes of Hot Sauce as a basketball genius....ignoring that he’s never seen Hot sauce make a legal drive in his life....

One of those trolls who compartmentalizes argument to one topic with no thought given to how that line of thinking plays out overall.

But when dealing with someone who wants the rich to pay way more in taxes and for the government to seize portions of companies for being too successful.....while also being pro Trump?

Hes probably just an all around troll to be ignored by people looking for honest discussion.

[BigShotBob]

He does not.

Was exposed in international play.

[tpols]

Tpols really is one of the worst posters here among those who attempt to give off a “serious fan” vibe and act like they really care about the intricacies of the sport. Even if Mutombo were half the athlete Giannis is to make it a better comparison....his obvious hating comparison is to a hall of famer? Which when you consider he thinks Giannis is bad at basketball is pretty hilarious.

Has virtually no appreciation for any aspect of basketball but handles and shooting which is why he reps the likes of Hot Sauce as a basketball genius....ignoring that he’s never seen Hot sauce make a legal drive in his life....

One of those trolls who compartmentalizes argument to one topic with no thought given to how that line of thinking plays out overall.

But when dealing with someone who wants the rich to pay way more in taxes and for the government to seize portions of companies for being too successful.....while also being pro Trump?

Hes probably just an all around troll to be ignored by people looking for honest discussion.

For an all around troll to be ignored a lot of my arguments seem to stick in your head.

And very specifically so. :lol

it's like you have a diary on me big dog.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Tpols really is one of the worst posters here among those who attempt to give off a “serious fan” vibe and act like they really care about the intricacies of the sport. Even if Mutombo were half the athlete Giannis is to make it a better comparison....his obvious hating comparison is to a hall of famer? Which when you consider he thinks Giannis is bad at basketball is pretty hilarious.

Has virtually no appreciation for any aspect of basketball but handles and shooting which is why he reps the likes of Hot Sauce as a basketball genius....ignoring that he’s never seen Hot sauce make a legal drive in his life....

One of those trolls who compartmentalizes argument to one topic with no thought given to how that line of thinking plays out overall.

But when dealing with someone who wants the rich to pay way more in taxes and for the government to seize portions of companies for being too successful.....while also being pro Trump?

Hes probably just an all around troll to be ignored by people looking for honest discussion.
Kblaze just dropped a steaming pile of shit on dudes forehead

Yowzers

[Axe]

For an all around troll to be ignored a lot of my arguments seem to stick in your head.

And very specifically so. :lol

it's like you have a diary on me big dog.
You and welfarefan are actually a scary tandem :lol

[tpols]

You and welfarefan are actually a scary tandem :lol

i've sonned the fella so many times, my arguments are ingrained deep in his mind.

i think it all stems back to the westbrook grudge where he got shitted on.

Bringing up hot sauce lmao... i have like 2 posts on him and he remembers them.

https://media.tenor.com/images/db2bf6fe47bf7833b660aa67af8fa812/tenor.gif

[Kblaze8855]

For an all around troll to be ignored a lot of my arguments seem to stick in your head.

And very specifically so. :lol

it's like you have a diary on me big dog.


After all these years reasonable people actually blend together. Only the worst things I read stand out. Especially when it’s someone like you so prone to repeat takes for months at a time at every mention of a player. You’re a shit take factory turning out opinions of noteworthy idiocy at pretty epic rate. Me noticing you just means you’re a clown dancing on the side of the road and most of ish is just walking by like rational adults.

Of course you remember seeing a clown.

The clown is acting foolish for the express purpose of being seen. That’s what internet trolls are.

[tpols]

I dont need to act foolish to be seen.

If that was the case, you'd ignore me, like the rest.

[Roundball_Rock]

For an all around troll to be ignored a lot of my arguments seem to stick in your head.

And very specifically so

Your posts are read for the same reason people turn around when they see a car crash.

[RRR3]

Your posts are read for the same reason people turn around when they see a car crash.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Whoah10115]

When Kblaze hits, he hits.

Noteworthy idiocy? Yikes.

[HoopsNY]

True--but one key difference is Barkley won 1 MVP in his entire career. Giannis is going to have 2 by age 25. Only KAJ and LeBron have had 2+ MVP's at that age I believe.

Consider Moses Malone who won 3 MVPs within his first 7 seasons of being in the NBA (granted he played 2 years in the NBA prior to his entry). So that's 3 MVP awards by the age of 27. And Moses' MVP years included a title in 1983, his 7th season in the league.

Having said that, I don't consider Moses to be top 10. I don't know of anyone that does. Giannis is 7 years in and will likely win his 2nd. Let's see what happens in the playoffs, first.

[HoopsNY]

his talent in a vacuum is nowhere near top 5 GOAT let alone even top 25 GOAT.

the guy just dribble charges in to the paint every possession for a layup or dunk. And if the defense sags 15 feet off takes a baby deer jumper.

He would be dikembe mutumbo in past eras which is still nice, but he's gotten a huge boost from today's era of spacing, monopolizing, and palming.

Slow ass Dikembe? Sorry, but Dikembe Mutombo had neither the skill nor athleticism that Giannis has. It's insulting that you would draw such a comparison.

[Reggie43]

Giannis is obviously a few tiers above (meaning much much better than) Mutombo but I wont be surprised if he shuts him down in a playoffs series like what Deke did in the playoffs against the Sonics in 1994.

[86Celtics]

Stating the obvious but if he'll be unstoppable if he develops a reliable jumper especially in this day and age.

It's not just his athletic traits either. He's ambitious and he is a hard worker who has stayed humble. He's got everything going for him, all he has to do is to keep working hard.

[Rico2016]

Stating the obvious but if he'll be unstoppable if he develops a reliable jumper especially in this day and age.

It's not just his athletic traits either. He's ambitious and he is a hard worker who has stayed humble. He's got everything going for him, all he has to do is to keep working hard.

I think if he can develop his passing like LeBron will be deadly.

[Roundball_Rock]

Consider Moses Malone who won 3 MVPs within his first 7 seasons of being in the NBA (granted he played 2 years in the NBA prior to his entry). So that's 3 MVP awards by the age of 27. And Moses' MVP years included a title in 1983, his 7th season in the league.

Having said that, I don't consider Moses to be top 10. I don't know of anyone that does. Giannis is 7 years in and will likely win his 2nd. Let's see what happens in the playoffs, first.

That is another measuring stick. If it is two by 25, it is only KAJ, LeBron, Giannis.

3 MVP's--over whatever time frame--is another milestone. Other than Moses, every player with 3+ MVP's is consensus top 10 all-time. The other people are KAJ, LeBron, Russell, Jordan, Wilt, Bird, and Magic.

[PeroAntic]

Stating the obvious but if he'll be unstoppable if he develops a reliable jumper especially in this day and age.

It's not just his athletic traits either. He's ambitious and he is a hard worker who has stayed humble. He's got everything going for him, all he has to do is to keep working hard.

He doesnt really have high IQ going for him. His success is due to today's high paced transition game and maximization of Lebron ball kickouts. If he gets a few rings to go with his MVPs then yes he probably should be top 10. But I can see why European fans dont like him. In the half court hes clumsy and tactically one dimensional. He will never be a better player than Durant for example.

[HoopsNY]

That is another measuring stick. If it is two by 25, it is only KAJ, LeBron, Giannis.

3 MVP's--over whatever time frame--is another milestone. Other than Moses, every player with 3+ MVP's is consensus top 10 all-time. The other people are KAJ, LeBron, Russell, Jordan, Wilt, Bird, and Magic.

Yea, though those guys have notable playoffs and finals performances, some of the best of all time. If Giannis can't get to the finals, let alone win one, despite having the best record in basketball multiple times, then history won't favor him as much. It's all speculation, though. It's still early in his career.

[tpols]

Yea, though those guys have notable playoffs and finals performances, some of the best of all time. If Giannis can't get to the finals, let alone win one, despite having the best record in basketball multiple times, then history won't favor him as much. It's all speculation, though. It's still early in his career.

roundball likes to tally awards and stats... he doesn't have the ability to actually analyze player's games in a vacuum.

I may be a little harsh on giannis, but a lot of people have echoed the same sentiments. even in this thread.

Sometimes, you need a little sprinkle of hate to balance out extreme overreactions like the title of this thread.

[Roundball_Rock]

Tpols can't even keep his own statements straight. That is what makes you comedy gold--you will say something completely opposite of what you said 10 minutes earlier. Tpols is purely emotionally driven. Saying Giannis sucks, saying Ewing>LeBron are laughable statements that this guy actually thinks is "analysis." :lol

Any fool can make claims, as you prove routinely. I marshal facts to support my claims--which you and your ilk are incapable of doing.


Yea, though those guys have notable playoffs and finals performances, some of the best of all time. If Giannis can't get to the finals, let alone win one, despite having the best record in basketball multiple times, then history won't favor him as much

He has played in 34 playoff games and he wasn't even a superstar for several of them. Let's wait and see. MJ and LeBron needed 7 years to make the finals themselves.

[tpols]

https://s3.amazonaws.com/gurufocus_userupload/02May2017162719.jpg

unless it's apples to apples...

mate.

[Roundball_Rock]

I forgot to mention you made the same statement in another thread with your "bawkish" account. :lol

That is the beauty of presenting information, not just stats, but evidence of GM, coach, player opinions at the time and reporting at the time: people can decide for themselves. Outside of the army of Jordan stans and their echo chamber, it is obvious what conclusions people are reaching.

It is revealing that Pippen's stock has went up after the decade long MJ stan crusade to diminish him, which you are a core member of on ISH. There is a reason for that: people can see right through it (like you saying 21/3 APG is GOAT offense; saying 20/6 APG is trash offense).

[tpols]

I only have one account mate.

kblaze could probably verify that through IP. I dont need alts for clout.

One poast will have you guys swarming.

[tpols]

btw why are you talking about pippen lmao... in this thread?

you have a pathological obsession with that man. Madonna level. While my posts cover a wide diversity of subject matter.

Because I'm a fan of basketball.

[Rico2016]

I forgot to mention you made the same statement in another thread with your "bawkish" account. :lol

That is the beauty of presenting information, not just stats, but evidence of GM, coach, player opinions at the time and reporting at the time: people can decide for themselves. Outside of the army of Jordan stans and their echo chamber, it is obvious what conclusions people are reaching.

It is revealing that Pippen's stock has went up after the decade long MJ stan crusade to diminish him, which you are a core member of on ISH. There is a reason for that: people can see right through it (like you saying 21/3 APG is GOAT offense; saying 20/6 APG is trash offense).

:lol

#Caught

[fsvr54]

No way, he doesn't have the ball skills to be a top 5 GOAT.

[Roundball_Rock]

One poast will have you guys swarming.

I can't speak to others but to me you are a very entertaining poster--but not for the reasons your high self-regard tells you. You have no criteria, no thought process. Just ad hoc emotions driving your "analysis."


#Caught

They say the same stuff almost word for word on different accounts. :lol

[RRR3]

btw why are you talking about pippen lmao... in this thread?

you have a pathological obsession with that man. Madonna level. While my posts cover a wide diversity of subject matter.

Because I'm a fan of basketball.
Almost all your posts are either directly or indirectly related to your agenda that Kobe>LeBron. Pot calling the kettle black.

[Roundball_Rock]

Almost all your posts are either directly or indirectly related to your agenda that Kobe>LeBron. Pot calling the kettle black.

Plus it was simply the most salient example of tpols' "approach" backfiring. They put forward dishonest, bad faith arguments and then wonder why they are losing the battle despite having an online army in every corner of the internet pushing the same each day (with only pockets of resistance, like me and a few others on ISH). People see right through it.

You can't be taken seriously when you say Ewing>LeBron, Giannis isn't good, hype 21 PPG while dissing 20 PPG, say Miller>actual superstars, say Pippen didn't play guard on the Dream Team, say playoff efficiency matters only when convenient to the agenda you referenced, etc.

[Axe]

roundball likes to tally awards and stats... he doesn't have the ability to actually analyze player's games in a vacuum.

I may be a little harsh on giannis, but a lot of people have echoed the same sentiments. even in this thread.

Sometimes, you need a little sprinkle of hate to balance out extreme overreactions like the title of this thread.
Are you saying it was OP's fault that he made this thread?

[Lion's pride]

At this point in his career, he has a chance IMO, BUT he will need to have a "go to move or shot" otherwise like Magic and Russell, I would have him in or near the top 10 but not in the top 5... They can carry a team but you can't count on them to deliver in crunch time..

[HoopsNY]

Tpols can't even keep his own statements straight. That is what makes you comedy gold--you will say something completely opposite of what you said 10 minutes earlier. Tpols is purely emotionally driven. Saying Giannis sucks, saying Ewing>LeBron are laughable statements that this guy actually thinks is "analysis." :lol

Any fool can make claims, as you prove routinely. I marshal facts to support my claims--which you and your ilk are incapable of doing.



He has played in 34 playoff games and he wasn't even a superstar for several of them. Let's wait and see. MJ and LeBron needed 7 years to make the finals themselves.

Yea but look at MJ and LeBron's playoff performances. They were epic. Giannis has been excellent, but he hasn't transcended anything by leaps and bounds the way they did.

[imdaman99]

Maybe his ceiling. But very few people reach their ceilings.

The ceiling is the roof...

[Roundball_Rock]

Yea but look at MJ and LeBron's playoff performances. They were epic. Giannis has been excellent, but he hasn't transcended anything by leaps and bounds the way they did.

Yeah he needs to back it up in the playoffs. I think he will. If he doesn't, he will wind up a better version of David Robinson legacy wise (basically Robinson with more MVP's). If he becomes a 3+ MVP player that is good company since they put up many great playoff runs. It would be highly unlikely for a player of that caliber to fail to do so over a large sample size.

[BigShotBob]

Get rid of defensive 3 seconds and he might disappear into the ether.

[Sulico]

Sure he has, but he didn't even start his journey. There is no chance anybody with less than 3 rings gets in top 5 and Giannis have 0 right now.

[Phoenix]

Giannis is pretty much a consistent jumpshot away from not being able to do anything with him. Where putting up a wall between him and the rim like Toronto did in 2019 won't matter much. Saying he has top 5 potential is pretty vacuous because a number of players had/have that kind of potential. Like all past and current stars playoff success will validate both his individual greatness as well as his legacy.

[tpols]

Get rid of defensive 3 seconds and he might disappear into the ether.

that's such a bullshit rule anyway... what's the logic behind it?

[Axe]

Sure he has, but he didn't even start his journey. There is no chance anybody with less than 3 rings gets in top 5 and Giannis have 0 right now.
So kawhi's not part of that equation.

[Roundball_Rock]

Saying he has top 5 potential is pretty vacuous because a number of players had/have that kind of potential.

I think it comes up because he has the best shot of being this generation's GOAT candidate. Every era has had at least one, if not two. Russell for the 50's, Russell/Wilt for the 50's/60's, Kareem for the 70's/80's, Bird & Magic for the 80's, Jordan for the 90's/80's, LeBron for the 00's and 10's. So who will it be for the 20's? Giannis seems the best bet with Luka, Zion other contenders. Giannis is already on his way to do it; those guys are not (for obvious reasons). Some may argue for Davis or Embiid but I doubt it.

[Phoenix]

I think it comes up because he has the best shot of being this generation's GOAT candidate. Every era has had at least one, if not two. Russell for the 50's, Russell/Wilt for the 50's/60's, Kareem for the 70's/80's, Bird & Magic for the 80's, Jordan for the 90's/80's, LeBron for the 00's and 10's. So who will it be for the 20's? Giannis seems the best bet with Luka, Zion other contenders. Giannis is already on his way to do it; those guys are not (for obvious reasons). Some may argue for Davis or Embiid but I doubt it.

As do I. AD has that level of talent but he seems best suited as a strong 1a or #2. If you swapped out Giannis with him on the Bucks I don't think they're nearly as good, because based on available evidence I don't think he's that level of floor-raiser. Embid is incredibly talented but seems lazy and I have to wonder if he's close to capped out. Plus health looks to be an ever-present concern.

[Roundball_Rock]

Yeah and AD has already played 8 seasons. It is hard to see him making a run for top 5 AT out the blue. I think he has a shot to finish in the top 30, though.

Embiid's potential is almost irrelevant for the reasons you mentioned. You can't be top 5 AT if you only play 50 games a year. He eventually will have some healthy seasons and maybe he can have a monster run in one or two of those years like Hakeem or Dirk did, but to be really high all-time you need to have been great for a long time. He has been in the NBA for 6 seasons already and has only 202 games played.

[Phoenix]

Embid just doesn't seem to have the drive to take that leap. On talent alone he can drop 25/12. That's not his issue. I question the commitment to year over year improvement at a time in his career ( as far as age) where he should still be ascending. If he puts in even an average amount of effort he's a top ten guy for the next several years, but there's clearly potential for more.

We'll see....but if I were a betting man that's not where I'd put my money.

[Roundball_Rock]

Isn't that essentially what Jimmy Buckets said about him after playing with him?

[Phoenix]

Isn't that essentially what Jimmy Buckets said about him after playing with him?

Not sure, but it just seems very clear observing him from a distance.

[insidious301]

I disagree with this. Don't see his peak even being better than KG's. Of course that is different than greatness but the latter requires championships. I believe that as long as Kawhi is healthy, while load managing, and the Clippers continue putting assets around him, they will be Milwaukee's kryptonite. I wouldn't be so quick to ignore Philadelphia either with Embiid and Simmons.

[Axe]

Milwaukee's success also relies on how well coach bud would manage this team in the postseason, not just giannis being a tough freight train for them.

[elementally morale]

I don't think so.

He is like a David Robinson. Franchise player in contention for the MVP and can win a ring with the right teammates and coach. Top 20-30 sounds very reasonable. Top 5... I don't see that potential.

[BigShotBob]

that's such a bullshit rule anyway... what's the logic behind it?

Open the lane up to let players get easy looks at the basket. We all saw him get exposed in international play, and by the Raptors.