Bobby Knight leaves no room to debate who the best player ever was.

[Kblaze8855]

The best guy that ever played the game was Michael Jordan. Don’t even think about anybody else, and it’s not even close. He was just better than everybody. He was smarter; he was tougher; he won more.
Bob Knight, via Wane-Tv (https://www.wane.com/)
Though he has a different most valuable


There are two things when you talk about players. You talk about the best player and you talk about the most valuable player. Without any doubt, the best player was Michael Jordan. The most valuable player was Bill Russell because nobody in any sport won what Bill Russell did with the Celtics.
Bob Knight, via Wane-Tv (https://www.wane.com/)

[Doranku]

Bobby Knight called Jordan the best basketball player he'd ever seen play before Michael even played an NBA game.

Not a bad evaluation.

[1987_Lakers]

The time Bobby Knight made Michael Jordan cry during 1984 Olympics

Earlier in the Olympics, Knight moved Jordan to tears, ordering him to apologize to his teammates for a six-turnover performance in a win over West Germany.

“You should be embarrassed by the way you played,” he yelled at Jordan, according to “Michael Jordan: The Life,” by Roland Lazenby. Sam Perkins, a teammate at North Carolina and at the Olympics, confirmed the story in 2016.

“He told Michael that’s the worst he ever played,” Perkins said in radio interview. “Now, Michael’s going to deny this, but he cried.”…

“I don’t know if I would have done [the 1984 Olympics] if I knew what Knight was going to be like,” [Jordan] said in March 1991, according to Sam Smith‘s book, “The Jordan Rules.”

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2020/05/01/bobby-knight-made-michael-jordan-cry-during-1984-olympics/

[SATAN]

:sleeping

[Reggie43]

Would love to see a Defensive Superstar Leader like Bill Russell again. Rebounding and hustle like Rodman, Pippen defensive iq, shotblocking like Akeem/Drob and the Leadership and intangibles of Magic/Bird with Jordans will to win.

[Phoenix]

juilis erving.did all this before mike was invented!mike ripped off all of dr j moves,apparently he didnt see jordan in the seventies!then again knight is god damn idot!

Is this supposed to be irony?

[light]

Bobby Knight called Jordan the best basketball player he'd ever seen play before Michael even played an NBA game.

Not a bad evaluation.

So he was heavily invested in being right. His opinion is biased.

[999Guy]

Would love to see a Defensive Superstar Leader like Bill Russell again. Rebounding and hustle like Rodman, Pippen defensive iq, shotblocking like Akeem/Drob and the Leadership and intangibles of Magic/Bird with Jordans will to win.
You will never see another Russell again. The NBA was weak and underdeveloped enough that a Ben Wallace level player took over the entire era, with the help of hof talent of course.

[Reggie43]

You will never see another Russell again. The NBA was weak and underdeveloped enough that a Ben Wallace level player took over the entire era, with the help of hof talent of course.

Ben Wallace was dumb as rocks compared to Bill Russell.

[HylianNightmare]

bill russel won 11 nab titles,and won shot blocking and rebounding titles.
what did michael besides score.
last I was told 11 beat 6 everytime
Aa long as people realize both are better than lebum. It's a win

[Shogon]

He leaves no room for debate? He directly contradicted himself.

What does valuable even really mean? It's a fancy way of saying "best." Nothing more, nothing less.

Say it with me, team dynamics are immeasurable by box scores, and Bill Russell probably had the biggest team impact throughout NBA history... thus he is the best player.

Basketball isn't 1 on 1.

[bizil]

The fact Knight called MJ the best player he's ever seen play BEFORE he played in the NBA was some fortune teller shit. Because NO HIGH PROFILE basketball minds of that magnitude was saying that at that time. NOBODY in general was saying MJ was the best player they had ever seen. Or that he had potential one day to be the best player on the planet. Once MJ evolved in the league, he had these attributes as a package that was never seen before:

- Freak athletic ability like Dr. J and David Thompson
- Offensive Positional versatility like a Big O (can play PG, SG, and SF at a great level)
- The all around mastery of the SG position like Jerry West (scoring, passing, rebounding, defense as a package)
- Flawless and smooth scoring arsenal inside the three point line like the Iceman (A+ midrange, A+ layups, A+ postup game, 80%+ FT shooter)
- Eventual DPOY caliber defense from the perimeter like a Moncrief.

No other player combined all these attributes together before MJ. The freak athletes before him like Doc, Thompson, Nique, and Drexler didn't have his fundamentals and all around ability on both sides of the court. The great all around players with sick fundamentals like Oscar, West, Barry, and Hondo didn't have his freak athletic ability. Even after MJ's rookie year, he was ALREADY the most complete player in the league on both sides of the court. He was already the best blend of scoring, passing, rebounding, and defending his position in the league! Bird and Magic were still a bit better in general because of the way they made their teammates better AND were still able to dominate scoring. But their days being the best player were NUMBERED!!!

[Kblaze8855]

What does valuable even really mean? It's a fancy way of saying "best." Nothing more, nothing less.

It really isn’t. It would be simpler if it were but it isn’t.

Your value to your teams success is simply not the same thing as how good you are in a vacuum. Especially when you consider the various systems used on each end for different teams. Steve Nash was more valuable to the suns than he would be for a number of teams that would waste his potential. Dwight was more valuable in the role he was playing on the Magic than he would be as the same player on a modern Dantoni team.

You’re as good as your ability. Your value changes based on your situation. Bill Russell would have been way less valuable to his team and league if he stayed on the racist ass Hawks who got Cleo Hill benched for being black and too good and for firing his coach who was told to sit him or be gone. Take away red who supported him, made him a player coach, saw the value of his defense and also had him start their breaks, let him speak on civil rights issues and so on?


Russell is a less valuable player on another team.

Worse?

No. But a lot of his value came from the Celtics buying in.

[999Guy]

Ben Wallace was dumb as rocks compared to Bill Russell.

I don’t believe that for a second. Defense is easily the hardest part of the game to grasp mentally. Wallace was the best defender in an era with Duncan and Garnett. Savants of the game.

[ArbitraryWater]

He leaves no room for debate? He directly contradicted himself.

What does valuable even really mean? It's a fancy way of saying "best." Nothing more, nothing less.

Say it with me, team dynamics are immeasurable by box scores, and Bill Russell probably had the biggest team impact throughout NBA history... thus he is the best player.

Basketball isn't 1 on 1.

Exactly.

The best player IS the most valuable player, on a level playing field / equal set of circumstances.

Which is one we base it on when we rank/evalute players.


It really isn’t. It would be simpler if it were but it isn’t.

Your value to your teams success is simply not the same thing as how good you are in a vacuum. Especially when you consider the various systems used on each end for different teams. Steve Nash was more valuable to the suns than he would be for a number of teams that would waste his potential. Dwight was more valuable in the role he was playing on the Magic than he would be as the same player on a modern Dantoni team.

You’re as good as your ability. Your value changes based on your situation. Bill Russell would have been way less valuable to his team and league if he stayed on the racist ass Hawks who got Cleo Hill benched for being black and too good and for firing his coach who was told to sit him or be gone. Take away red who supported him, made him a player coach, saw the value of his defense and also had him start their breaks, let him speak on civil rights issues and so on?


Russell is a less valuable player on another team.

Worse?

No. But a lot of his value came from the Celtics buying in.

You don't get it, yikes

[Kblaze8855]

What you don’t get is that:


The best player IS the most valuable player, on a level playing field / equal set of circumstances.


Doesnt exist in the real world.

As long as there are different teams and situations that allow more or less of your talent to be exploited value and ability are not the same thing.

**** outta here with your fantasy worlds. Equal talents do not offer equal impact because there are way more factors than how good you are in a fabricated world of identical situations.

Redundant skills, imperfect systems, rule changes, personality and so on all greatly impact how valuable you are to your team and the league as a whole. It doesn’t matter how talented you are if we could measure your skills piece by piece like video game ratings.

Talented jerks and guys who don’t fit a particular system by thrive in others have been ruining teams since the peach basket days.

There is more to value than the sum of your skills. A lot more.

[Shogon]

It's already tiresome and I haven't even begun to argue. lol... whatever.

[BigShotBob]

It's already tiresome and I haven't even begun to argue. lol... whatever.

Salt.

MJ the GOAT is gonna keep being the GOAT. Nothing will change that.

[WhiteKyrie]

Bobby Knight always has been the GOAT

[Kblaze8855]

It's already tiresome and I haven't even begun to argue. lol... whatever.

“Whatever” all you like. If value didn’t change with circumstance players would play at the same level no matter what system, coaching, or teammates they have....which obviously isn’t the case. How good you are doesn’t change. Your impact on the game changes greatly with any number of circumstances that have nothing to do with talent. And obviously impact is a factor in your value. Much as you wanna make “best” and “valuable” the same thing they simply aren’t. The board of governors can’t take your talent. They sure as **** can alter rules to make your talents more or less useful. And so can your coach. Your teammates. Your attitude.

Value isn’t talent. Value is a total package as it can be used in the situation you are in.

[Doranku]

Bill Russell won two rings as a player-coach. I guess player-coaches weren't that uncommon back then, but I feel like it should be brought up more. No other all-time great has that on his resume.

[dbugz]

https://i.imgur.com/EZOJ7CT.gif

[SATAN]

LeBron James is the greatest basketball player of all time.

[Reggie43]

I don’t believe that for a second. Defense is easily the hardest part of the game to grasp mentally. Wallace was the best defender in an era with Duncan and Garnett. Savants of the game.

Except that Bill Russell along with being a better defender than Wallace brought more to the table aside from defense yet you called them players on the same level. Despite not being a great scorer Bill Russell understood the game masterfully on both ends which resulted in his teams always having great chemistry and teamwork.

Imagine a team having Ben Wallace as its franchise player and expecting guidance and leadership from him on and off the court :roll:

[HoopsNY]

Except that Bill Russell along with being a better defender than Wallace brought more to the table aside from defense yet you called them players on the same level. Despite not being a great scorer Bill Russell understood the game masterfully on both ends which resulted in his teams always having great chemistry and teamwork.

Imagine a team having Ben Wallace as its franchise player and expecting guidance and leadership from him on and off the court :roll:

One thing that gets overlooked is Russell's passing. He was top ten in assists 4 times I believe and top twenty 12 times. There were only 8-14 teams back then, but it's still impressive to be top ten 4 times in a 13 year span.

[Bawkish]

LeBron James is the greatest basketball player of all time.

says the Devil himself

Bron is the new Anti-Christ

[jayfan]

So he was heavily invested in being right. His opinion is biased.

Lol, invested in what? He made a statement, not a prediction. And, biased how?



Knight also said Steph Curry was 'as good a passer as has ever played college basketball' while he was still in college. Was that biased, too?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JyTIQq5H-g

Worth watching. Great evaluation.


.

[bizil]

Lol, invested in what? He made a statement, not a prediction. And, biased how?



Knight also said Steph Curry was 'as good a passer as has ever played college basketball' while he was still in college. Was that biased, too?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JyTIQq5H-g

Worth watching. Great evaluation.


.

I remember Knight saying this about Steph too. The PERFECT PG for Dantoni's system would be Steph Curry! Because he would be like Nash on steroids scoring wise. Those two are the best blends EVER of shooting, passing, and handles EVER at the PG spot! Nash is pass first while Steph is score first. But Steph ALSO is a very underrated passer by many. Among the score first type of PG's, he's among the best passers in the league. He's right there with Russ in that realm. And to be honest, I think he's a more crafty passer than Russ. He's just asked to play a different type of role in that GSW. That maximizes his scoring ability BUT tones down his ACTUAL passing ability!

[Round Mound]

domnique wilkins,was just as good as jordan!if didnt get injured,what have been better than jordan

He wasn't the shooter, mid range shooter, far range shooter, post up player, defender and passer Jordan was. Nique es a great scorer and dunker but he lacked fundamentals, skills, iq etc in his all around game.