Why do people excuse LeBron James’ lack of success, but not Wilt Chamberlain’s

[coastalmarker99]

LeBron never really gets a “pass” for his lack of success, but it doesn’t seem to hurt his legacy quite like Wilt’s.

LeBron won Rookie of the Year/Wilt won Rookie of the Year.

LeBron won 4 mvps (4 in 5 years)/Wilt won 4 mvps (3 consecutive).

LeBron has never led the best offense in the league/Wilt led the best offense in history (at the time) in scoring and as primary playmaker for the ‘67 76ers.

LeBron once came close to winning Defensive Player of the Year/Wilt was widely considered to have given the best regular season defensive performance of the year as the defensive anchor for the 67 and ‘68 sixers who were the (best defense in the league, even over Russell’s Celtics) that year and for the ‘72 and 73 Lakers.

LeBron led the Heat to a 27-game winning streak/Wilt led the Lakers to a 33-game winning streak.

LeBron led the ‘09 Cavaliers to 66 wins (a franchise record) and the ‘13 Heat to 66 wins (a franchise record)/Wilt led the ‘67 76ers to 68 wins (Setting the NBA record; still a franchise record) and the ‘72 Lakers to 69 wins (Setting the NBA record; still a franchise record).

LeBron has been to more finals than Wilt, but most of his career has unfortunately been spent in the weaker conference while most of Wilt’s was spent in the stronger conference. To take this into account: LeBron has “gone the distance” (either winning a Championship or losing to the champions) 10 times in 16 years (not including 2020)/Wilt had “gone the distance” 12 times in 14 years.

LeBron gave the best performance in each of his title-winning finals for a total of 3/Wilt gave the best performance in each of his title–winning finals for a total of 2.

Looking at over their careers, it seems that LeBron’s only argument in being more successful would be that he won 1 more championship than Wilt Chamberlain as Chamberlain destroys him in stats and records and if Wilt had been allowed to play out of high school he would have even better career totals and longevity and more rings then lebron as he would have joined a great warriors team.

Who would you say had a more successful career? By how much and why?

[coastalmarker99]

Also, Wilt's stats would have been even more out of this world if they tracked blocks and steals when he played. And in reality, Wilt probably is the all-time leader for having the most triple-doubles along with quadruple-doubles and Wilt is also more than likely the real all-time leader in blocks in the regular season and playoffs.

[Rico2016]

LeBron James is the greatest champion in NBA history. Name me a player with three better rings? You cant

[coastalmarker99]

LeBron James is the greatest champion in NBA history. Name me a player with three better rings? You cant

Bird 84 and 86 are two great rings
Wilt 67 and 72 to cap off two of the greatest teams ever getting their rings after dominating for the entire season with Wilt getting the finals MVP on both

Mj 1993 and 1998 two three-peats what a feat also 1996 the perfect year for a player and team and maybe 1991.

Magic 1980 1985 1987 1988 rookie winning the finals MVP he makes amends for choking in 1984 in 1985 and 1987 he caps off the bird vs Magic era by beating him for the last time and gaining the head to head record against him in the playoffs

Kareem 1971 and 1985 and 1980 also 1987



Shaq 2000 2001 2002

[SouBeachTalents]

People still use the rangz argument against LeBron, but I'd say the biggest difference between the two is that while LeBron let one title he absolutely should have won slip through his fingers in 2011, due in large part to his performance, Wilt imo left several more championships on the table, with his 3 year stretch from 68-70 being the biggest missed opportunity for any ATG. Blew a 3-1 lead with HCA in the '68 ECF, blew a 2-0 lead with HCA in the '69 Finals, then lost in a Game 7 for the 3rd year in a row in the '70 Finals.

I don't criticize him for losing to the Celtics earlier in his career, but to be literally a win away each season from 2-3 additional titles (and 4 in a row), and to walk away with ZERO during that time frame really hurts

[Axe]

Bird 84 and 86 are two great rings
Wilt 67 and 72 to cap off two of the greatest teams ever getting their rings after dominating for the entire season with Wilt getting the finals MVP on both

Mj 1993 and 1998 two three-peats what a feat also 1996 the perfect year for a player and team and maybe 1991.

Magic 1980 1985 1987 1988 rookie winning the finals MVP he makes amends for choking in 1984 in 1985 and 1987 he caps off the bird vs Magic era by beating him for the last time and gaining the head to head record against him in the playoffs

Kareem 1971 and 1985 and 1980 also 1987



Shaq 2000 2001 2002
Why would you even bother answering him? Slick is the troll toll here.

[coastalmarker99]

People still use the rangz argument against LeBron, but I'd say the biggest difference between the two is that while LeBron let one title he absolutely should have won slip through his fingers in 2011, due in large part to his performance, Wilt imo left several more championships on the table, with his 3 year stretch from 68-70 being the biggest missed opportunity for any ATG. Blew a 3-1 lead with HCA in the '68 ECF, blew a 2-0 lead with HCA in the '69 Finals, then lost in a Game 7 for the 3rd year in a row in the '70 Finals.

I don't criticize him for losing to the Celtics earlier in his career, but to be literally a win away each season from 2-3 additional titles (and 4 in a row), and to walk away with ZERO during that time frame really hurts

Yeah, your right it does hurt if he had come away with four titles from 1967 to 1970 Wilt would be undisputed top 5 of all-time and maybe even top 3 all-time I think he is the goat but to let those slip away was terrible.

Through in 1968, he was injured along with many of his 76er teammates, and I am not sure they beat the Lakers in the finals with everyone going down injured as they were for the 76ers.


1969 is downright inexcusable for Wilt and is a horrible moment for his legacy those lakers should have beaten the Celtics in 5 that year even though he played great in game seven the series would have been over a lot earlier if he had not been so passive on offence.

1970 I give Wilt a pass for that year he had suffered a career knee threatening injury nine games into the season, and he had been on fire to start the season he was more than likely going to win his 8th scoring title and seven field goal percentage title and 9th rebound title and maybe even his 5mvp he was playing that well as the lakers had decided to make him the centre of their offence with West being the second option to him.

Wilt should not have come back that year he had suffered such a bad injury that he was a shell of himself in the finals he could barely move and Reed was kicking his ass for the first four games of the finals before he got hurt in game 5 though I will say this if the lakers win that game 7 Wilt would have been the finals MVP and the Narrative about him would completely change.

1970 is a big what if for Wilt if he never gets hurt does he play longer after 1973 does he ever decide to play like Russell if he still has his abilities on offence.

Also if Wilt had four-peated from 1967-to 1970 where would you rank him all time.

[iamgine]

The perception is Wilt should've been more successful given his circumstances while Lebron is more sucessful than expected given his circumstances.

[coastalmarker99]

The perception is Wilt should've been more successful given his circumstances while Lebron is more sucessful than expected given his circumstances.

Indeed as Wilt once famously said everybody pulls for David, nobody roots for Goliath.

Wilt was expected to win every single year he was the most dominant individual force in NBA history
if he wins everybody says that it is because of his height if he loses people say how could a man of his size lose.

[light]

LeBron never really gets a “pass” for his lack of success, but it doesn’t seem to hurt his legacy quite like Wilt’s.

LeBron won Rookie of the Year/Wilt won Rookie of the Year.

LeBron won 4 mvps (4 in 5 years)/Wilt won 4 mvps (3 consecutive).

LeBron has never led the best offense in the league/Wilt led the best offense in history (at the time) in scoring and as primary playmaker for the ‘67 76ers.

LeBron once came close to winning Defensive Player of the Year/Wilt was widely considered to have given the best regular season defensive performance of the year as the defensive anchor for the 67 and ‘68 sixers who were the (best defense in the league, even over Russell’s Celtics) that year and for the ‘72 and 73 Lakers.

LeBron led the Heat to a 27-game winning streak/Wilt led the Lakers to a 33-game winning streak.

LeBron led the ‘09 Cavaliers to 66 wins (a franchise record) and the ‘13 Heat to 66 wins (a franchise record)/Wilt led the ‘67 76ers to 68 wins (Setting the NBA record; still a franchise record) and the ‘72 Lakers to 69 wins (Setting the NBA record; still a franchise record).

LeBron has been to more finals than Wilt, but most of his career has unfortunately been spent in the weaker conference while most of Wilt’s was spent in the stronger conference. To take this into account: LeBron has “gone the distance” (either winning a Championship or losing to the champions) 10 times in 16 years (not including 2020)/Wilt had “gone the distance” 12 times in 14 years.

LeBron gave the best performance in each of his title-winning finals for a total of 3/Wilt gave the best performance in each of his title–winning finals for a total of 2.

Looking at over their careers, it seems that LeBron’s only argument in being more successful would be that he won 1 more championship than Wilt Chamberlain as Chamberlain destroys him in stats and records and if Wilt had been allowed to play out of high school he would have even better career totals and longevity and more rings then lebron as he would have joined a great warriors team.

Who would you say had a more successful career? By how much and why?

Whoa, slow down champ.

LeBron won back-to-back rings and back-to-back Finals MVPs by age 28 and 3 rings and 3 Finals MVPs by age 31.

Wilt had 0 rings by age 28 and won his first ring at age 30. No repeats for Wilt. And he didn't get his 2nd and final ring until he was 36, months before retirement.

I.e. Wilt spent the bulk of his career with either 0 or 1 rings.

Success level difference = approaching maximum.

LeBron won three times by age 31, including back-to-back, and he's dragged every team he's been on to the finals for a decade, so the "LeBron James’ lack of success" idea actually - get this - it doesn't exist.

So to answer your question, they're treated differently because everybody in the world thinks LeBron has been incredibly successful.

[coastalmarker99]

Whoa, slow down champ.

LeBron won back-to-back rings and back-to-back Finals MVPs by age 28 and 3 rings and 3 Finals MVPs by age 31.

Wilt had 0 rings by age 28 and won his first ring at age 30. No repeats for Wilt. And he didn't get his 2nd and final ring until he was 36, months before retirement.

I.e. Wilt spent the bulk of his career with either 0 or 1 rings.

Success level difference = approaching maximum.

LeBron won three times by age 31, including back-to-back, and he's dragged every team he's been on to the finals for a decade, so the "LeBron James’ lack of success" idea actually - get this - it doesn't exist.

So to answer your question, they're treated differently because everybody in the world thinks LeBron has been incredibly successful.

You try to compare certain special situations of Wilt and LeBron straighly, as if they played in the same era. You claim LeBron had 2 titles by age 28, leaving out that when LeBron was in his 8th season (Wilt's first title), he was still at zero. Hell, if Wilt had the good fortune of being able to play in the NBA since he was a HS'er, he might join the already 1956 champions Warriors and add a few titles early on, suddenly entering the Russell/Magic/Bird territories instead of the LeBron ones.
You compare their situations at 35, when Wilt was a 300+ lb monster coming off a potential career-ending injury and having the crappy 70's medicine at his disposal to a 35 y.o LeBron who has never been seriously injured and has a half-century medical head start. LeBron would have zero case of being as healthy in the 70's as he's now. 35 in 1970 is nothing like 35 in 2020.
You're right, there's nothing to compare here, but it's not any testament of LeBron being greater.
Btw, for someone who was "done", Wilt had a hell of a lot of success: All-NBA 2nd team behind a prime Kareem, valid MVP candidate (he got almost half as many votes as 35 ppg Kareem), leading with Russell's role a team to a record that stood a quarter of a century, leading the league in rebounding, leading the league in FG%, probably leading the league in blocks and probably winning DPOY if the award had existed back then etc. If this is "done", Russell must have been "done" during his whole career.

[Rico2016]

Bird 84 and 86 are two great rings
Wilt 67 and 72 to cap off two of the greatest teams ever getting their rings after dominating for the entire season with Wilt getting the finals MVP on both

Mj 1993 and 1998 two three-peats what a feat also 1996 the perfect year for a player and team and maybe 1991.

Magic 1980 1985 1987 1988 rookie winning the finals MVP he makes amends for choking in 1984 in 1985 and 1987 he caps off the bird vs Magic era by beating him for the last time and gaining the head to head record against him in the playoffs

Kareem 1971 and 1985 and 1980 also 1987



Shaq 2000 2001 2002

I think you proved my point, no?

If those were the very best players you could compare to LeBron James three championships then you definitely proved my point. None of those championships are even as good as one of LeBron's, and he has three top-tier rings.

LeBron James is the greatest champion in NBA history. Thanks for proving my point.

[Rico2016]

Why would you even bother answering him? Slick is the troll toll here.

He is not scared like you are.

[Horatio33]

Because people like coastalmarker constantly say "Wilt was BY FAR the BIGGEST, STRONGEST, MOST ATHLETIC, MOST DOMINANT player in NBA HISTORY!" but as soon as someone brings up his shortcomings coastalmarker brings up Wilt's teammate's faults and shortcomings.

If Wilt was the MOST DOMINANT, why can't you accurately address his deficiencies? He wasn't perfect, no player or person is perfect. But you can't have it both ways. You can't talk about Wilt CRUSHING the opposition and DESTROYING all the record books, but then make excuse after excuse after excuse when the STRONGEST, MOST DOMINANT player EVER lost multiple big games to players less physically dominant and less physically skilled. Hypocrisy.

Basketball, like all sports, is played so there is a winner and loser. You can have all the stats you want. The only stat that matters is the final score.

[warriorfan]

https://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/img/photos/2014/12/15/a3/6e/162720792.jpg

:lol

[coastalmarker99]

:lol

:lol

[Rico2016]

Since you are challenging the greatest champion in NBA history (LBJ) about his winning, it should be easy to find other players that have won at least equal amounts correct?

I asked you to list players that had three championships better, and you could only muster up two for a couple of players. Which definitely proves my point. Not to mention that even when you did only mentioned two instead of three thery aren't even Greater Performances than LBJ. For example, 1986 Larry Bird was out scored by his own teammate, and his opposition's number 2 option was Rodney McCray. Let that sink in.

1980 Magic Johnson wasn't even technically the finals MVP, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar was hurt for the final game. Kareem was playing at a number one level option for the entire series. I give credit for Magic having a great game 6 to win it all, but Kareem was the finals MVP that series if you know the backstory.

Shaq had some impressive numbers in the finals but he faced off against a bunch of tomato cans in the finals. What was his best finals opponent?

Jordans first and legit ring is 1993 against the Suns. That's close to LeBron Level tier Championship. But, that's his only one. LeBron James has three of those. So again I think you are proving my point.

[Roundball_Rock]

It is a double standard for sure. It seems a lot of the Wilt/Russell stuff is reverse engineered to justify an era bias to exclude them from the conversation. You are right, though, a lot of what is used to dismiss Wilt can be applied to LeBron.


Also, Wilt's stats would have been even more out of this world if they tracked blocks and steals when he played.

Or if he played tomato can defenders in a lot of games and series, versus facing a top 8-10 center every time he stepped on the court.


The perception is Wilt should've been more successful given his circumstances while Lebron is more sucessful than expected given his circumstances.

That seems to be a fairly common perception but is it borne out by the facts? Wilt was losing with 3 HOF against 7. Even LeBron has never had a deficit that large to overcome.

With Wilt, he, like LeBron, gets criticized for losing when he dragged teams much farther than they would have went without him. How is that a discredit to them? Should losing in the first round be what all legends should strive for if they don't have the best team (the team that nearly always wins the title in basketball)?

Look at what happened when old Wilt retired. The Lakers went from 60 wins and the finals to 47 wins and losing in the first round. True, he was still a MVP caliber player but prime Wilt was long gone. Imagine his impact on teams in his prime.

[coastalmarker99]

It is a double standard for sure. It seems a lot of the Wilt/Russell stuff is reverse engineered to justify an era bias to exclude them from the conversation. You are right, though, a lot of what is used to dismiss Wilt can be applied to LeBron.



Or if he played tomato can defenders in a lot of games and series, versus facing a top 8-10 center every time he stepped on the court.



That seems to be a fairly common perception but is it borne out by the facts? Wilt was losing with 3 HOF against 7. Even LeBron has never had a deficit that large to overcome.

With Wilt, he, like LeBron, gets criticized for losing when he dragged teams much farther than they would have went without him. How is that a discredit to them? Should losing in the first round be what all legends should strive for if they don't have the best team (the team that nearly always wins the title in basketball)?

Look at what happened when old Wilt retired. The Lakers went from 60 wins and the finals to 47 wins and losing in the first round. True, he was still a MVP caliber player but prime Wilt was long gone. Imagine his impact on teams in his prime.


Also, Wilt would have a far bigger impact for the lakers after 1969 if he never suffered a career knee threatening injury that robbed him of his sideways movement and agility and jump but even then Wilt could still score when needed to although I love Wilt, but I think his reluctance to shoot hurt Lakers in 1973 Finals. He averaged 8.4 FGA & 11.6 pts, and watched McMillian shoot (not well at 39%) 21 times per game. And he shot less in his last two years then Russell ever did with the Celtics which shows that Wilt could be unselfish and sacrifice for the team and do the role that they wanted him to do.


Worth noting though: When Wilt's scoring dropped, his ASTs and FG% went up. And even in his final year he was still the best rebounder in the league by a good margin, and arguably still the best Rim Protector also.

[Horatio33]

Because people like coastalmarker constantly say "Wilt was BY FAR the BIGGEST, STRONGEST, MOST ATHLETIC, MOST DOMINANT player in NBA HISTORY!" but as soon as someone brings up his shortcomings coastalmarker brings up Wilt's teammate's faults and shortcomings.

If Wilt was the MOST DOMINANT, why can't you accurately address his deficiencies? He wasn't perfect, no player or person is perfect. But you can't have it both ways. You can't talk about Wilt CRUSHING the opposition and DESTROYING all the record books, but then make excuse after excuse after excuse when the STRONGEST, MOST DOMINANT player EVER lost multiple big games to players less physically dominant and less physically skilled. Hypocrisy.

Basketball, like all sports, is played so there is a winner and loser. You can have all the stats you want. The only stat that matters is the final score.

???

[Roundball_Rock]

JLauber would always note Wilt was something like 10 points from 3 or 4 other rings. Some may interpret that as Wilt failing--if he did slightly better those outcomes would change--but if you look at the deficit in talent between the two teams it is amazing Wilt got inferior teams that close in the first place.

The common theme between Wilt, LeBron is they played against the super team of their era while on clearly inferior teams. Most of the top 10 all-time were on the clear best team (Russell, Jordan, Magic, old Kareem), on a team that was equal to the best team (Kobe, Duncan, Lakers Shaq), or on a team that was "1b" to the best team (Bird, you could slot Duncan in here as well depending on how you rate the Lakers).

Hakeem is a unique case in that he won his rings when the real best team temporarily weakened. When he was losing, outside of 86', it was to random teams, not all-time great teams.

[tpols]

we live in a time with far more media and casual fans and Lebron is the current "brand" so they have to hype him for money.

the league wasn't rich in Wilt's day.

[coastalmarker99]

we live in a time with far more media and casual fans and Lebron is the current "brand" so they have to hype him for money.

the league wasn't rich in Wilt's day.

Indeed if Espn was around when Wilt played and talk shows were around they would have milked him for money.

[coastalmarker99]

JLauber would always note Wilt was something like 10 points from 3 or 4 other rings. Some may interpret that as Wilt failing--if he did slightly better those outcomes would change--but if you look at the deficit in talent between the two teams it is amazing Wilt got inferior teams that close in the first place.

The common theme between Wilt, LeBron is they played against the super team of their era while on clearly inferior teams. Most of the top 10 all-time were on the clear best team (Russell, Jordan, Magic, old Kareem), on a team that was equal to the best team (Kobe, Duncan, Lakers Shaq), or on a team that was "1b" to the best team (Bird, you could slot Duncan in here as well depending on how you rate the Lakers).

Hakeem is a unique case in that he won his rings when the real best team temporarily weakened. When he was losing, outside of 86', it was to random teams, not all-time great teams.

That's what I have always said why is sam jones hitting a game-winner in the 62 Ecf game 7 make Wilt a worse player because he lost to something outside his control or Hondo stealing the ball in 1965 or every 76er player getting hurt in 68 and him not getting passed the ball in the 68ecf game 7 and his coach leaving him on the bench in spite in the 1969 finals game 7. That's four losses where things were out of his control or what about 1971 when both Baylor and West missed the entire playoffs and he dragged the lakers to the Wcf and took a game off the bucks that won the title that year.

Wilt and LeBron are the most unlucky top ten players ever both seem to be cursed by things outside their control lebron 2015 finals and this year and the poor front office he had for his first 7 years as a cav and the same for Wilt with the warriors where he had put them on his back to win games and playoff series.

[Roundball_Rock]

That's what I have always said why is sam jones hitting a game-winner in the 62 Ecf game 7 make Wilt a worse player because he lost to something outside his control or Hondo stealing the ball in 1965 or every 76er player getting hurt in 68 and him not getting passed the ball in the 68ecf game 7 and his coach leaving him on the bench in spite in the 1969 finals game 7. That's four losses where things were out of his control or what about 1971 when both Baylor and West missed the entire playoffs and he dragged the lakers to the Wcf and took a game off the bucks that won the title that year.

Wilt and LeBron are the most unlucky top ten players ever both seem to be cursed by things outside their control lebron 2015 finals and this year and the poor front office he had for his first 7 years as a cav and the same for Wilt with the warriors where he had put them on his back to win games and playoff series.

Good points. That is why my criteria is about players being drafted in a vacuum. You are starting a franchise from scratch--these guys are your 1st pick--and you don't know what the rest of the roster will wind up looking like. Who gives you the best chances of winning championships over their career? That entails looking at their peak/prime levels of play but also longevity. How scalable and portable all players? Some players' value is going to be more situation dependent than others and others can thrive as a #2 or #3 option but struggle with #1 usage (none of the top 10 guys but it becomes an issue when you get to the 20's and beyond in rankings with some guys).

The ring stuff seems to be a product of convenience for two of the largest fan bases. If Kobe retired with 7 rings would MJ fans be saying rings were the be all end all and that therefore Kobe>MJ? Of course not, but it is a convenient tool to use against LeBron, Wilt, even Kareem (Russell simply gets erased from the conversation since his 11 are inconvenient).

[Kblaze8855]

Wilt, Lebron, Hakeem, Isiah, Steph, and Bird types with 2-3 rings or even Doc, Moses, and Barry with one have no lack of success to excuse. Karl Malone, Ewing, Barkley and all them...Reggie, Baylor and so on?

They have a lack of success. As in....no success. Ever. Guys with multiple rings, multiple mvps, and accolades out the ass need excusing only in the eyes of people looking to argue over nothing and not appreciate greatness.

And people without success are often as good as people with the most of it anyway. Put 01-03 McGrady on the court with most of the top 20 you wouldn’t be able to tell who was better. Marques Johnson and Doctor J don’t look that different on the same floor and you may not even know who that is.

None of this shit matters much to a basketball game. It matters to individual peoples rankings usually just as ammo to defend a position they have an emotional attachment to.

I care less and less about these stupid rankings as time goes on. Probably because I’ve spent too long reading arguments built by people who don’t even care if they have their facts straight.

[Roundball_Rock]

I have always found it ironic and amusing that guys with multiple championships at the highest level of their sport are called "losers" by many fans.

[coastalmarker99]

I have always found it ironic and amusing that guys with multiple championships at the highest level of their sport are called "losers" by many fans.

Same Baylor would have killed to win a ring same with Barkley Malone Stockton and many others Wilt won 2 rings in dominant fashion his teams were the best teams those years and both broke win records and nearly won 70's games 68 for the 67 sixers which were the best team of the '60s and same with the '70s with the 72 lakers being the best team of that decade who went 69 and 13.

[coastalmarker99]

Wilt to MJ:

"When I played they changed every rule to make it harder for me. When you played they changed every rule to make it easier for you." And MJ just shut up.

Wilt is the greatest individual player ever. Not the greatest competitor, winner, teammate, most skilled, smartest, or every other part of being part of a team game. But definitely most dominant and exemplary individual player, and would be the most dominant in today's game.

Wilt was the greatest athletic person that has ever stepped foot on a court in the nba

[Roundball_Rock]

Wilt to MJ:

"When I played they changed every rule to make it harder for me. When you played they changed every rule to make it easier for you." And MJ just shut up.

Wilt is the greatest individual player ever. Not the greatest competitor, winner, teammate, most skilled, smartest, or every other part of being part of a team game. But definitely most dominant and exemplary individual player, and would be the most dominant in today's game.

Wilt was the greatest athletic person that has ever stepped foot on a court in the nba

:applause:

[dbugz]

What a disrespect to Wilt comparing him to a 11ish on the goat list dude :facepalm

[Rico2016]

What a disrespect to Wilt comparing him to a 11ish on the goat list dude :facepalm
This isnt about Kobe bruh

[Rico2016]

So you mean to tell me nobody can challenge LeBron James for the greatest champion in basketball history? I asked you to provide me one player with three equal or greater championships than LeBron James. So far I have zero applicants. Would anyone like to argue against LeBron James being the greatest champion in all of basketball history?

I'll do a quick recap reminder:

2012: Became only the second player in NBA history to average 30 10 and 5 on 50% shooting for an entire playoff run en route to a Finals MVP.

Dismantled the three-headed monster, three MVP, three scoring champion, Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook, James Harden. Not to mention Defensive Player of the Year runner-up Serge Ibaka

2013: Defeated the #6, #1 and #3 defense in back-to-back-to-back fashion while capping off The Greatest Game 7 NBA Finals performance perhaps in NBA history. All the while beating the great Dynasty Spurs with Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili, Tony Parker, and Kawhi Leonard and Hall of Famer Coach Gregg Popovich. Also while dragging the literal second-worst (Wade) number two ppg option in playoff history.

2016: I don't even need to say anything here. I think my point has been proven.

Good luck to anyone, but my point remains. LeBron James is the greatest champion in basketball Sports history

[Axe]

we live in a time with far more media and casual fans and Lebron is the current "brand" so they have to hype him for money.

the league wasn't rich in Wilt's day.
And back in the 60s, people didn't like black athletes playing basketball.

[HylianNightmare]

LeBron James is the greatest champion in NBA history. Name me a player with three better rings? You cant
He has one good ring in Cleveland. His super teaming rings in Miami.....he won 2 of 4... how is that impressive

[light]

He has one good ring in Cleveland. His super teaming rings in Miami.....he won 2 of 4... how is that impressive

LeBron was only the second player to win back-to-back MVPs and Finals MVPs in 2012 and 2013. The first player to do that was Michael Jordan in 1991 and 1992.

Remove Finals MVPs as a qualifier and make it back-to-back MVPs and back-to-back rings and the group is just LeBron, Jordan and Bill Russell.

That is enormously impressive.

[Rico2016]

He has one good ring in Cleveland. His super teaming rings in Miami.....he won 2 of 4... how is that impressive

I challenge you to post a player with three better rings so we can all have a laugh.

LeBron James is the greatest champion in league history. Period.

[Rico2016]

LeBron was only the second player to win back-to-back MVPs and Finals MVPs in 2012 and 2013. The first player to do that was Michael Jordan in 1991 and 1992.

Remove Finals MVPs as a qualifier and make it back-to-back MVPs and back-to-back rings and the group is just LeBron, Jordan and Bill Russell.

That is enormously impressive.

Not only that, but COMPETITION matters. No one beat teams like LBJ. It's why no one can list a better champion than LeBron. His rings are a tier above.

[warriorfan]

Not only that, but COMPETITION matters. No one beat teams like LBJ. It's why no one can list a better champion than LeBron. His rings are a tier above.

LeBron got shook by Tyson Chandler. Imagine what Bill Russel would do. Swap LeBron for Wilt and Bron would be held to zero rings.

[Rico2016]

LeBron got shook by Tyson Chandler. Imagine what Bill Russel would do. Swap LeBron for Wilt and Bron would be held to zero rings.

I challenge you to post a player with three better rings so we can all have a laugh.

LeBron James is the greatest champion in league history. Period.

[sejoon101]

Didnt even read.

Lebron gets maaaad passes. The fact that he even gets mentioned in top 2 in most fans and media outlets screams all the passes in the world. Top 10 yeah MAYYYYYYYBE MAYBE top 5 depending on what criteria you find important. This GOAT comparisons / top 2 shit is laughable

[Lebron23]

Didnt even read.

Lebron gets maaaad passes. The fact that he even gets mentioned in top 2 in most fans and media outlets screams all the passes in the world. Top 10 yeah MAYYYYYYYBE MAYBE top 5 depending on what criteria you find important. This GOAT comparisons / top 2 shit is laughable

You're a joke of a poster. Lebron likely end his nba career with 5 or 6 finals mvp. And the all time leading scorer in regular season, playoffs, and nba finals. Lebron is goin to win more titles in los angeles than in cleveland.

[Lebron23]

Lebron is also the superior playoffs and finals performer than Wilt.

[Rico2016]

Didnt even read.

Lebron gets maaaad passes. The fact that he even gets mentioned in top 2 in most fans and media outlets screams all the passes in the world. Top 10 yeah MAYYYYYYYBE MAYBE top 5 depending on what criteria you find important. This GOAT comparisons / top 2 shit is laughable


I challenge you to post a player with three better rings so we can all have a laugh.

LeBron James is the greatest champion in league history. Period.

[Duncan21formvp]

LeBron was only the second player to win back-to-back MVPs and Finals MVPs in 2012 and 2013. The first player to do that was Michael Jordan in 1991 and 1992.

Remove Finals MVPs as a qualifier and make it back-to-back MVPs and back-to-back rings and the group is just LeBron, Jordan and Bill Russell.

That is enormously impressive.

Let's use guys who did so for the franchise that drafted them and also weren't down 3-2 with HCA.

[Rico2016]

Let's use guys who did so for the franchise that drafted them and also weren't down 3-2 with HCA.

Too shook to respond? :lol Good boy, that's what I thought.

[SouBeachTalents]

Let's use guys who did so for the franchise that drafted them and also weren't down 3-2 with HCA.
Or guys who didn't lose to 8 seeds

[Rico2016]

So you mean to tell me nobody can challenge LeBron James for the greatest champion in basketball history? I asked you to provide me one player with three equal or greater championships than LeBron James. So far I have zero applicants. Would anyone like to argue against LeBron James being the greatest champion in all of basketball history?

I'll do a quick recap reminder:

2012: Became only the second player in NBA history to average 30 10 and 5 on 50% shooting for an entire playoff run en route to a Finals MVP.

Dismantled the three-headed monster, three MVP, three scoring champion, Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook, James Harden. Not to mention Defensive Player of the Year runner-up Serge Ibaka

2013: Defeated the #6, #1 and #3 defense in back-to-back-to-back fashion while capping off The Greatest Game 7 NBA Finals performance perhaps in NBA history. All the while beating the great Dynasty Spurs with Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili, Tony Parker, and Kawhi Leonard and Hall of Famer Coach Gregg Popovich. Also while dragging the literal second-worst (Wade) number two ppg option in playoff history.

2016: I don't even need to say anything here. I think my point has been proven.

Good luck to anyone, but my point remains. LeBron James is the greatest champion in basketball Sports history

Guys?

[Soundwave]

Having less titles than Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Jordan, Pippen, Parker, etc. makes you the "greatest champion"? lol. No one outside of a tiny handful of people actually believe that.

[SATAN]

Context doesn't matter to casuals.

[SATAN]

It's quite likely LeBron James would have smashed every single record back then if he played against the same competition

[Roundball_Rock]

His super teaming rings in Miami.....he won 2 of 4... how is that impressive

How "super" were they?

https://fivethirtyeight.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/paine-datalab-lebron-cast-2.png?w=1150

[86Celtics]

How "super" were they?

https://fivethirtyeight.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/paine-datalab-lebron-cast-2.png?w=1150

https://youtu.be/e9BqUBYaHlM

[Soundwave]

The Heat were never that great as a team, just a group of individuals that were able to eek out a couple of titles on sheer talent ... but part of that is on LeBron and the style of basketball he insists on playing (ball dominant, not willing to change for any team situation).

Jordan and even Kobe for a few years at least were willing to play a different style that wasn't specifically tailored to their needs in order for greater team success.

The Heat should've ran an offence more tailored to Bosh and Wade because if LeBron is that great the whole offence shouldn't need to revolve around him he should be able to get his anyway.

[Axe]

It's quite likely LeBron James would have smashed every single record back then if he played against the same competition
Seriously, when did you ever start watching the game of basketball? Like 2011? :oldlol:

[Rico2016]

Seriously, when did you ever start watching the game of basketball? Like 2011? :oldlol:

I'm still waiting for you to respond, but you appear to be extremely shook.

Please feel free to list any NBA player with three or more better championships than LeBron James. The ball is in your court my son.

[Axe]

I'm still waiting for you to respond, but you appear to be extremely shook.

Please feel free to list any NBA player with three or more better championships than LeBron James. The ball is in your court my son.
Shut the fukk up, slick. I'm not talking to your autistic troll ass.

[Rico2016]

Shut the fukk up, slick. I'm not talking to your autistic troll ass.

Whenever you're ready chico. No pressure.

[Axe]

Whenever you're ready chico. No pressure.
You better be careful to not bang the rocks together again too much, psycho.

[Rico2016]

You better be careful to not bang the rocks together again too much, psycho.

*yawwwwn*

Let me know when you think of a greater champion

[Axe]

*yawwwwn*

Let me know when you think of a greater champion
You will get it sooner than later once again than you can ever imagine, fool.

[SATAN]

Axe is worse than julius erving. Absolutely pointless waste of flesh and bone.

[Axe]

^^Sure like somebody gives a shit when you're the dumbest cancerous asshole in this board

But yeah, keep crying me a river as usual, smoke.

[SATAN]

Axe is an idiot.

[Axe]

^It's so clear you have nothing to say other than to call someone an idiot, you demon worshipping freak.

[SATAN]

You aren't even worth talking to. There's nothing remotely interesting about your posts (and you've made 3,832 since February LMAO!!!). This is the last time I acknowledge you, ****ing piss ant.

[Axe]

^^Is ranting about the post count your most banal way of expressing how truly butthurt or jealous you are? 🤔

[STATUTORY]

cause Wilt played in the 60s so there aren't any teenage fanboys living vicariously thru his success and emotionally invested in how the public sees him like there are with Lebron

[Roundball_Rock]

Axe is worse than julius erving. Absolutely pointless waste of flesh and bone.

He adds zero value to basketball discussion on a basketball board. He is here to only be a self-appointed critic of other posters, not to talk basketball. Him being on the ignore list improves the quality of nearly every thread. :lol

[Axe]

He adds zero value to basketball discussion on a basketball board. He is here to only be a self-appointed critic of other posters, not to talk basketball. Him being on the ignore list improves the quality of nearly every thread. :lol
Oops, the butthurt holier-than-thou queen of drama is crying. :hammertime: