Beginning from 14 Finals, whi has won 10 straight playoff series by offensive rating

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Starting from the 2014 finals, Kawhi Leonard has won 10 straight series by offensive rating and he was always leader in PPG or GmSc. I'm only counting when he was healthy and played significant amount of the series, so 2017 WCF isn't included.

Finals 2014:
Spurs: 120.8
Heat: 104.8

Kawhi leads GmSc for 2nd time during title run, as well as being teams best defender on the team and leader in VORP.

1st round 2015:

Spurs: 108.4
Clippers: 108.0

Kawhi leads team in PPG to a higher offensive rating. Clippers get lucky due to home court advantage and Paul shot over Duncan. Despite all this, Kawhi still leads spurs to better offensive rating

1st round 2016:

Spurs: 117.1
Grizzles: 92.1

2nd round 2016:

Spurs: 109.0
Thunder: 108.5

1st round 2017:

Spurs: 121.0
Grizzles: 111.4

2nd round 2017:

Spurs: 113.7
Rockets: 108.4

2019 1st round:

Raptors: 111.4
Magic: 96.3

2019 2nd round:

Raptors: 108.0
76ers: 105.1

2019 east finals:

Raptors: 108.2
Bucks: 107.2

2019 finals:

Raptors: 116.0
Warriors: 110.1

And he's still just in the middle of his prime. Kawhi Leonard the ultimate winner.

[Rico2016]

Imagine a top 40 player with terrible leadership, 2,000 career playoff points, 0 MVPs, and no passing ability (2.7 apg career ) being compared to a top 20 player. Bad leadership and no passing abilities = The Kawhi prototype

#NoThanks

[Roundball_Rock]

He is a great player. The issue is when he gets compared to GOAT candidates when he isn't even on Durant or Curry's level yet. He has had four great seasons. Let's see if he can keep it up with his supposedly damaged knees.

Props to him for actually stepping it up in the postseason and to a ridiculously high efficiency.

[Rico2016]

2014: Iggy FMVP
2015: 1st round MJ failure
2016: 2nd round failure
2017: 2nd round failure
2018: Refresher break
2019: Went 7 vs Jimmy Butler and Beat injured Finals team

[Rico2016]

He is a great player. The issue is when he gets compared to GOAT candidates when he isn't even on Durant or Curry's level yet. He has had four great seasons. Let's see if he can keep it up with his supposedly damaged knees.

Props to him for actually stepping it up in the postseason and to a ridiculously high efficiency.

+1

Dr. Roundball on point

[HoopsNY]

In all fairness, I'd rather have Kawhi than KD and Steph. His offensive ability is right up there if he has the volume and his defensive ability is a game changer, something that KD and Steph both lack.

But I do agree, we need to give Kawhi a little more time. Let's see what he does the next few seasons and what he can accomplish.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Imagine a top 40 player with terrible leadership, 2,000 career playoff points, 0 MVPs, and no passing ability (2.7 apg career ) being compared to a top 20 player. Bad leadership and no passing abilities = The Kawhi prototype

#NoThanks

10 straight playoff series wins by offensive rating. Show me when LeBron has done that in his career. Since 2014 finals, kawhi has led 10 straight superior offenses in playoff series when he's healthy and he's always leader in PPG/GmSc

Before you sleep, you better hope and wish every single night that LeBron/Davis don't run into Kawhi Leonard in playoffs this year, he will light them up faster then you can do your copy paste posts Hahahha

[HBK_Kliq_2]

He is a great player. The issue is when he gets compared to GOAT candidates when he isn't even on Durant or Curry's level yet. He has had four great seasons. Let's see if he can keep it up with his supposedly damaged knees.

Props to him for actually stepping it up in the postseason and to a ridiculously high efficiency.

Since he has taken over as PPG/GmSC leader in 2014 finals, he has led offenses to 10 straight wins via offensive rating. That's GOAT level stuff.

Kawhi vs Curry

2016 - Kawhi leads spurs to 67 wins and leads BPM in playoffs. Better complete year then Curry because his poor playoff performance.

2017 - Kawhi breaks playoff records, curry can't touch him here

2019 - Kawhi beats curry in finals and out plays him

Curry has 2018 when Kawhi sat out. Kawhi has 2020 when Curry sat out.

Only thing Curry has is 2015 but that's by default because he's older and started his prime earlier.

[Roundball_Rock]

Better player is different than greater player. Compare his resume to Durant's. It isn't even in the same universe. For example, KD is ahead 9-3 in All-NBA and 6-2 in first teams. Kawhi benefits from the glow of last year because the hype was Kawhi won by himself. The Raptors debunked that by outperforming the Clippers all season this year but there are still doubters pending them confirming it in the playoffs (no one contemplates the scenario where the Clippers fail in the PO).

Durant can play defense at a high level, albeit not at an all-time great level like Kawhi. Durant is the better playmaker. People keep boiling offense down to scoring and even there KD has the edge on anyone of his era other than Harden.

KD is 31, Kawhi 28. People don't realize they are that close in age. One player has accomplished a lot more to date.

[Rico2016]

10 straight playoff series wins by offensive rating. Show me when LeBron has done that in his career. Since 2014 finals, kawhi has led 10 straight superior offenses in playoff series when he's healthy and he's always leader in PPG/GmSc

Before you sleep, you better hope and wish every single night that LeBron/Davis don't run into Kawhi Leonard in playoffs this year, he will light them up faster then you can do your copy paste posts Hahahha

Kawhi has made 3 Finals
He has 2,000 playoff pts
0 MVPs
Played for dynasties his entire career

Before you sleep, you better hope and wish every single night that LeBron/Davis don't run into Kawhi Leonard in playoffs this year. 4th FMVP pending

[HBK_Kliq_2]

2014: Iggy FMVP
2015: 1st round MJ failure
2016: 2nd round failure
2017: 2nd round failure
2018: Refresher break
2019: Went 7 vs Jimmy Butler and Beat injured Finals team

His team had a higher offensive rating in every series since 2014 finals, what's a matter with you. You do realize what that means right? Every team that has beat him won by pure luck.

oh and is 7 vs butler even a criticism? LeBron went 7 vs Paul George and he didn't even have an Embiid level player on his team.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Kawhi has made 3 Finals
He has 2,000 playoff pts
0 MVPs
Played for dynasties his entire career

Before you sleep, you better hope and wish every single night that LeBron/Davis don't run into Kawhi Leonard in playoffs this year. 4th FMVP pending

2 finals MVPS by 27 years old. How many finals MVPS did LeBron have at 27 years old?

[Rico2016]

2 finals MVPS by 27 years old. How many finals MVPS did LeBron have at 27 years old?

How many dynasties did they both play for?

Look man, the bar has been set. 6,911

Good luck to Kawhi he is 1/3 of the way there :lol

[HBK_Kliq_2]

How many dynasties did they both play for?

Look man, the bar has been set. 6,911

Good luck to Kawhi he is 1/3 of the way there :lol

Raptors are a dynasty now? Their biggest shot ever before Kawhi was some shot by Vince Carter that nobody remembers and they had 0 finals appearances.

Kyle Lowry is the best player in their franchise history, wow what a dynasty hahhaha

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Better player is different than greater player. Compare his resume to Durant's. It isn't even in the same universe. For example, KD is ahead 9-3 in All-NBA and 6-2 in first teams. Kawhi benefits from the glow of last year because the hype was Kawhi won by himself. The Raptors debunked that by outperforming the Clippers all season this year but there are still doubters pending them confirming it in the playoffs (no one contemplates the scenario where the Clippers fail in the PO).

Durant can play defense at a high level, albeit not at an all-time great level like Kawhi. Durant is the better playmaker. People keep boiling offense down to scoring and even there KD has the edge on anyone of his era other than Harden.

KD is 31, Kawhi 28. People don't realize they are that close in age. One player has accomplished a lot more to date.

Durant never had the scoring efficiency in playoffs that Kawhi had while in Thunder. Durant has never had a title run like 2019 Kawhi. Durant had the biggest chokejob in history 2016 1-3 blown lead. Durant also doesn't have the godly BPM/VORP stats like Kawhi and in top 5 ESPN RPM list on a consistent basis like Kawhi. I think Kawhi is clearly on pace to have a better career then Durant.

[Rico2016]

Durant never had the scoring efficiency in playoffs that Kawhi had while in Thunder. Durant has never had a title run like 2019 Kawhi. Durant had the biggest chokejob in history 2016 1-3 blown lead. Durant also doesn't have the godly BPM/VORP stats like Kawhi and in top 5 ESPN RPM list on a consistent basis like Kawhi. I think Kawhi is clearly on pace to have a better career then Durant.

Didnt Kawhi & KD meet in the 2016 playoffs? Who won again? KD did.

KD= 28-7-4
Kawhi= 23-7-4

Whoops?

[light]

Starting from the 2014 finals, Kawhi Leonard has won 10 straight series by offensive rating and he was always leader in PPG or GmSc. I'm only counting when he was healthy and played significant amount of the series, so 2017 WCF isn't included.

Finals 2014:
Spurs: 120.8
Heat: 104.8

Kawhi leads GmSc for 2nd time during title run, as well as being teams best defender on the team and leader in VORP.

1st round 2015:

Spurs: 108.4
Clippers: 108.0

Kawhi leads team in PPG to a higher offensive rating. Clippers get lucky due to home court advantage and Paul shot over Duncan. Despite all this, Kawhi still leads spurs to better offensive rating

1st round 2016:

Spurs: 117.1
Grizzles: 92.1

2nd round 2016:

Spurs: 109.0
Thunder: 108.5

1st round 2017:

Spurs: 121.0
Grizzles: 111.4

2nd round 2017:

Spurs: 113.7
Rockets: 108.4

2019 1st round:

Raptors: 111.4
Magic: 96.3

2019 2nd round:

Raptors: 108.0
76ers: 105.1

2019 east finals:

Raptors: 108.2
Bucks: 107.2

2019 finals:

Raptors: 116.0
Warriors: 110.1

And he's still just in the middle of his prime. Kawhi Leonard the ultimate winner.

"leads spurs to better offensive rating"

That... doesn't matter.

He lost in the first round in 2015 on a title defense, guy. That's really bad.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Didnt Kawhi & KD meet in the 2016 playoffs? Who won again? KD did.

KD= 28-7-4
Kawhi= 23-7-4

Whoops?

Kawhi only had Aldridge who is a Kevin Love player and he led them to 67 wins, led playoffs in BPM, better offensive rating then Thunder. You're asking for too much if you want to beat two superstars Durant/Westbrook with a Kevin Love level player like Lamarcus Aldridge.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

"leads spurs to better offensive rating"

That... doesn't matter.

He lost in the first round in 2015 on a title defense, guy. That's really bad.

Parker had 10 points 38% TS, so much for providing a 3rd option scorer. Kawhi was stuck with just 39 year old Duncan and nobody else. Lost by 1 shot game 7 without home court vs prime Paul/Griffin. Still led spurs in scoring and spurs had a higher offensive rating.

[r0drig0lac]

He is a great player. The issue is when he gets compared to GOAT candidates when he isn't even on Durant or Curry's level yet. He has had four great seasons. Let's see if he can keep it up with his supposedly damaged knees.

Props to him for actually stepping it up in the postseason and to a ridiculously high efficiency.

lmao Kawhi >> Durant >>> Curry

[Rico2016]

Kawhi only had Aldridge who is a Kevin Love player and he led them to 67 wins, led playoffs in BPM, better offensive rating then Thunder. You're asking for too much if you want to beat two superstars Durant/Westbrook with a Kevin Love level player like Lamarcus Aldridge.

LMA scored 27 ppg that series.

NEXT

Imagine a 1st round exit? :lol

NEXT

[999Guy]

Kawhi got his ass kicked in 2015.

CP3 crushed him. He got moved onto Redick in the last 3 games of the series.

From RealGM:


Yeah, this series against the Clips is never mentioned for whatever reason and CP3’s performance is highly underrated.

—Spurs’ DRtg WITH Kawhi ON court (250 minutes): 109.5
—Spurs’ DRtg with Kawhi OFF court (91 minutes): 93.4
—The Spurs’ defensive rating was the best with Kawhi off court.

There was really only one game with garbage time (game 3 and in that game, the Spurs’ DRtg was the same with Kawhi on court or not), so that DRtg difference was during the course of competitive play.

https://stats.nba.com/team/1610612759/onoffcourt-advanced/?Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Playoffs&sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1

—Spurs were an astounding 27.6 points per 100 possessions BETTER with Kawhi off the floor in that series.

18.6 points per 100 worse in games 1 and 2.
21.6 points per 100 better in game 3.
42.2 points per 100 WORSE in games 4, 5, and 6.
https://stats.nba.com/team/1610612759/onoffcourt-advanced/?Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Playoffs&sort=NET_RATING&dir=1&DateFrom=04%2F26%2F2015&DateTo=05%2F02%2F2015

[Rico2016]

Kawhi got his ass kicked in 2015.

CP3 crushed him. He got moved onto Redick in the last 3 games of the series.

From RealGM:

/ thread

[Roundball_Rock]

Durant>>>>Kawhi. You won't find a single all-time list with Kawhi higher or even close to Durant. It is theoretically possible he can close the gap but highly unlikely. He is 28 and still 6 all-NBA teams behind KD, for example?


Kawhi only had Aldridge who is a Kevin Love player

All-NBA teams: Aldridge 5, Love 2
All-star teams: Aldridge 7, Love 5
Top 10 in MVP: Alridge 3, Love 1

Alridge is a better player, especially if you are comparing the 2016 versions of both.


LMA scored 27 ppg that series.

So a "Kevin Love" type player outscored Kawhi? :lol

[HBK_Kliq_2]

LMA scored 27 ppg that series.

NEXT

Imagine a 1st round exit? :lol

NEXT

He didn't know who the hell Kawhi was, apparently. Kawhi has never lost a playoff series when he's the clear cut leading scorer.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Kawhi got his ass kicked in 2015.

CP3 crushed him. He got moved onto Redick in the last 3 games of the series.

From RealGM:

7 game sample size isn't enough for on/off stats. Kawhi was the leading scorer but lost by 1 point without home court advantage. Duncan let Chris Paul make the game winner and Parker had 38% TS.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Durant>>>>Kawhi. You won't find a single all-time list with Kawhi higher or even close to Durant. It is theoretically possible he can close the gap but highly unlikely. He is 28 and still 6 all-NBA teams behind KD, for example?



All-NBA teams: Aldridge 5, Love 2
All-star teams: Aldridge 7, Love 5
Top 10 in MVP: Alridge 3, Love 1

Alridge is a better player, especially if you are comparing the 2016 versions of both.



So a "Kevin Love" type player outscored Kawhi? :lol

Lamarcus didn't know who Kawhi was yet in 2016, so he went out and lost the damn series. Kawhi outplayed Durant in game 5 to push it to game 7 at spurs, Lamarcus just played so terrible they gave back home court advantage. They were stuck in a game 6 road trap game with 40 year old Duncan as 3rd option scorer

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=1&player_id1_hint=LaMarcus+Aldridge&player_id1_select=LaMarcus+Aldridge&player_id1=aldrila01&idx=bbr__players&y1=2015&player_id2_hint=Kevin+Love&player_id2_select=Kevin+Love&player_id2=loveke01&idx=bbr__players&y2=2014

Lamarcus vs Kevin Love stats before they both played with LeBron/Kawhi

Kevin Love is putting up 19 points 12 rebounds 56% TS and a 4.0 BPM

Lamarcus Aldridge is putting up 19 points 8 rebounds 53% TS and a 1.5 BPM

[Rico2016]

Let me recap here. Kawhi:

•Cant pass
•Always played on a stacked team
•Lost in 1st round
•Lost to KD in 2016
•Outscored my LaMarcus Aldridge/Kevin Love
•Takes massive vacations every year
•Has zero MVPs (highest ranked award)

I mean...He is good. Hovering top 40 ish

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Let me recap here. Kawhi:

•Cant pass
•Always played on a stacked team
•Lost in 1st round
•Lost to KD in 2016
•Outscored my LaMarcus Aldridge/Kevin Love
•Takes massive vacations every year
•Has zero MVPs (highest ranked award)

I mean...He is good. Hovering top 40 ish

I like to see LeBron beat prime Paul/Griffin with 39 year old Duncan as his 2nd best player. Or beat prime Durant/Westbrook with lamarcus the Kevin love clone as his 2nd best player. So much for always having stacked teams.

Kawhi had 2 finals MVPS at 27, how many did LeBron have at 27?

[warriorfan]

Steph Curry with a healthy team hasn’t lost a playoff series in 7 years.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Steph Curry with a healthy team hasn’t lost a playoff series in 7 years.

2016 finals up 3-1 and losing because Draymond missed 1 game, that's unacceptable.

Also sweeping through west finals 2019 and then losing in 6 during finals when Klay misses a game.

[warriorfan]

2016 finals up 3-1 and losing because Draymond missed 1 game, that's unacceptable.

Also sweeping through west finals 2019 and then losing in 6 during finals when Klay misses a game.

Bogut was injured, Iguodala was injured, Steph tore his MCL earlier in the playoffs.

Sorry bud. That’s a big no.

[tpols]

it's pretty much impossible to hate on kawhi.

he's like a basketball cyborg that was created in a lab. He doesn't feel pressure, and simply executes everything at a high level.

[warriorfan]

it's pretty much impossible to hate on kawhi.

he's like a basketball cyborg that was created in a lab. He doesn't feel pressure, and simply executes everything at a high level.

He is. The real truth is since 2015...Leonard and Curry have been the two best players in the NBA by far. Interchangeable as 1a/1b.

[Rico2016]

He is. The real truth is since 2015...Leonard and Curry have been the two best players in the NBA by far. Interchangeable as 1a/1b.

FMVP by year
2015: Igyy
2016: Bron
2017: Durant
2018: Durant
2019: Kawhi

Hmm...

[tpols]

FMVP by year
2015: Igyy
2016: Bron
2017: Durant
2018: Durant
2019: Kawhi

Hmm...

the fact that an old iggy won one proves how little that means. Backfire.

We know contextually Durant got his by being a team hopping bitch... nobody respects his rings. And Lebron by crying to get dray tossed.

Kawhi did get lucky that the dubs were hurt, BUT what he did out east makes up for it imo. Game 7 walk off, backdoor ECF sweep... He was a beast.

[Rico2016]

the fact that an old iggy won one proves how little that means. Backfire.

We know contextually Durant got his by being a team hopping bitch... nobody respects his rings. And Lebron by crying to get dray tossed.

Kawhi did get lucky that the dubs were hurt, BUT what he did out east makes up for it imo. Game 7 walk off, backdoor ECF sweep... He was a beast.

LeBron is the greatest champion in basketball history. How does that make you feel?

[Roundball_Rock]

It is disingenuous to cut off half of Love's career--but you had to do it since he didn't have staying power. Aldridge is still balling at age 34.

Kawhi wasn't an all-star until his 5th season. This is the guy who is better than Kareem, LeBron, and Durant because he won with a stacked team (better record than Kawhi/PG in LA :lol ) against an injured team?

[HoopsNY]

Better player is different than greater player. Compare his resume to Durant's. It isn't even in the same universe. For example, KD is ahead 9-3 in All-NBA and 6-2 in first teams. Kawhi benefits from the glow of last year because the hype was Kawhi won by himself. The Raptors debunked that by outperforming the Clippers all season this year but there are still doubters pending them confirming it in the playoffs (no one contemplates the scenario where the Clippers fail in the PO).

Durant can play defense at a high level, albeit not at an all-time great level like Kawhi. Durant is the better playmaker. People keep boiling offense down to scoring and even there KD has the edge on anyone of his era other than Harden.

KD is 31, Kawhi 28. People don't realize they are that close in age. One player has accomplished a lot more to date.

It's not that simple, though. KD came into the league in 2007 while Kawhi came in in 2011. That's a difference of 4 seasons, which is significant when comparing players. In addition, the system that Kawhi played in prevented him from actualizing his talent.

Popovich ran a tight system down in San Antonio but that left little room for stars to showcase their potential, in this case - Kawhi. He still has 2 finals MVPs to his name, but throwing that aside, we can't ignore that he is the best two way player in the league.

KD is not a great defender. He might not be a bad defensive player, but in comparison to Kawhi, it's not even close. KD is the better play maker, ball handler, and shooter. And while all of that is the case, Kawhi is still going to be able to give you 30 pts while shooting 49-39-87. I'll take that and his game changing defense over Durant's play making, easily.

But people are acting like last year he came out of left field. In his last four playoff years, he's basically doing 27-8-4 on 50-40-88 over a span of 53 games and up to the age of 27.

Yes it's still too early to anoint him in a tier above KD, but it's not unreasonable to think that another 5 years down the line, with more accomplishments and accolades, that he'll surpass him.

[Rico2016]

It's not that simple, though. KD came into the league in 2007 while Kawhi came in in 2011. That's a difference of 4 seasons, which is significant when comparing players. In addition, the system that Kawhi played in prevented him from actualizing his talent.

Popovich ran a tight system down in San Antonio but that left little room for stars to showcase their potential, in this case - Kawhi. He still has 2 finals MVPs to his name, but throwing that aside, we can't ignore that he is the best two way player in the league.

KD is not a great defender. He might not be a bad defensive player, but in comparison to Kawhi, it's not even close. KD is the better play maker, ball handler, and shooter. And while all of that is the case, Kawhi is still going to be able to give you 30 pts while shooting 49-39-87. I'll take that and his game changing defense over Durant's play making, easily.

But people are acting like last year he came out of left field. In his last four playoff years, he's basically doing 27-8-4 on 50-40-88 over a span of 53 games and up to the age of 27.

Yes it's still too early to anoint him in a tier above KD, but it's not unreasonable to think that another 5 years down the line, with more accomplishments and accolades, that he'll surpass him.

For being an MJ fan you sure do give a lot of excuses to back up 1st round exit Kawhi.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

It is disingenuous to cut off half of Love's career--but you had to do it since he didn't have staying power. Aldridge is still balling at age 34.

Kawhi wasn't an all-star until his 5th season. This is the guy who is better than Kareem, LeBron, and Durant because he won with a stacked team (better record than Kawhi/PG in LA :lol ) against an injured team?

Kevin Love had a 8 OBPM in 2014, that's MVP level offensive impact. Aldridge never reached that high of a peak.

[tpols]

Kevin Love had a 8 OBPM in 2014, that's MVP level offensive impact. Aldridge never reached that high of a peak.

Love had 25 ppg on 120 ORTG

And was the rebounding champ at 6'7.

He was an incredible player before Cleveland ruined him. Reminder, they traded a first round #1 pick for him.

Thats as valuable as it gets...

[warriorfan]

It is disingenuous to cut off half of Love's career--but you had to do it since he didn't have staying power. Aldridge is still balling at age 34.

Kawhi wasn't an all-star until his 5th season. This is the guy who is better than Kareem, LeBron, and Durant because he won with a stacked team (better record than Kawhi/PG in LA :lol ) against an injured team?

Two words

Eye Test

[warriorfan]

Love had 25 ppg on 120 ORTG

And was the rebounding champ at 6'7.

He was an incredible player before Cleveland ruined him. Reminder, they traded a first round #1 pick for him.

Thats as valuable as it gets...


In 2014 Kevin Love put up 26.1 / 12.5 / 4.4 / 59% TS

The only players in NBA history that put up that production are Prime Kareem Abdul Jabbar and Giannis...(They each only managed to do it once as well)

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Love had 25 ppg on 120 ORTG

And was the rebounding champ at 6'7.

He was an incredible player before Cleveland ruined him. Reminder, they traded a first round #1 pick for him.

Thats as valuable as it gets...

Exactly and LeBronBall turned him into a 9 points role player type guy. To say Lamarcus Aldridge is on a higher tier is just flat out wrong.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

It is disingenuous to cut off half of Love's career--but you had to do it since he didn't have staying power. Aldridge is still balling at age 34.

Kawhi wasn't an all-star until his 5th season. This is the guy who is better than Kareem, LeBron, and Durant because he won with a stacked team (better record than Kawhi/PG in LA :lol ) against an injured team?

Still balling at age 34? He had spurs at -1.19 SRS this season.

[Rico2016]

In 2014 Kevin Love put up 26.1 / 12.5 / 4.4 / 59% TS

The only players in NBA history that put up that production are Prime Kareem Abdul Jabbar and Giannis...(They each only managed to do it once as well)

How many playoff games did Love win before LeBron?
How many appearances?
Thanks

[Rico2016]

Exactly and LeBronBall turned him into a 9 points role player type guy. To say Lamarcus Aldridge is on a higher tier is just flat out wrong.

How many playoff series did each win before joining LBJ?

Kevin Love made ZERO playoffs w/o LeBron
Aldridge made FIVE playoffs w/o Kawhi

Goodnight

[Roundball_Rock]

It's not that simple, though. KD came into the league in 2007 while Kawhi came in in 2011. That's a difference of 4 seasons, which is significant when comparing players

Irrelevant to a point about where their resumes stand today. The real question is will Kawhi erase that gap when it is all said and done? That is highly unlikely...


Yes it's still too early to anoint him in a tier above KD, but it's not unreasonable to think that another 5 years down the line, with more accomplishments and accolades, that he'll surpass him.

The problem with this is KD isn't going to retire tomorrow. As Kawhi keeps playing, so will KD. So when again does he erase the gap? It is possible KD outlasts Kawhi. He is 28 and can't play full-time anymore.

[warriorfan]

How many playoff games did Love win before LeBron?
How many appearances?
Thanks

His Minnesota teams had less help than LeBron did last year on the Lakers. LeBron is not making the playoffs with Love’s supporting cast.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Irrelevant to a point about where their resumes stand today. The real question is will Kawhi erase that gap when it is all said and done? That is highly unlikely...



The problem with this is KD isn't going to retire tomorrow. As Kawhi keeps playing, so will KD. So when again does he erase the gap? It is possible KD outlasts Kawhi. He is 28 and can't play full-time anymore.
This is a lethal point right here.

Kawhit in his mid-late 20's can't even play full seasons, what does that mean for his 30's?

Meanwhile KD is coming off an Achilles tear yet I feel much better about the prospects of him continuing to dominate well into 30's because of his skillset

Kawhit won't get close to catching up to KD. KD will just continue to widen he gap while Kawhit slowly deteriorates. Kawhit is on pace to retire in less than 5 years.

[Rico2016]

His Minnesota teams had less help than LeBron did last year on the Lakers. LeBron is not making the playoffs with Love’s supporting cast.

How many playoff games did Love win before LeBron?
How many appearances?
Thanks

[Roundball_Rock]

Still balling at age 34? He had spurs at -1.19 SRS this season.

Love had the Cavs' SRS at -7.6. :lol


Kawhit in his mid-late 20's can't even play full seasons, what does that mean for his 30's?

Meanwhile KD is coming off an Achilles tear yet I feel much better about the prospects of him continuing to dominate well into 30's because of his skillset

Exactly. It is purely theoretical that Kawhi will surpass KD. I can see KD playing well at 35 or 36. Kawhi will probably be playing 2 games a week at that point, if he isn't already retired.

[Rico2016]

Love had the Cavs' SRS at -7.6. :lol



Exactly. It is purely theoretical that Kawhi will surpass KD. I can see KD playing well at 35 or 36. Kawhi will probably be playing 2 games a week at that point, if he isn't already retired.

Great find! That dude props up Love but forgot about his -7.6 SRS

[warriorfan]

How many playoff games did Love win before LeBron?
How many appearances?
Thanks

Same amount lebron has in the west :lol

[Rico2016]

Same amount lebron has in the west :lol

Damn, we know its bad when you're comparing a 5 year PRIME to a 1 year past prime, Fail number one.

Additionally, Lakers clinched the playoff seed this year so double fail on your part. Be smarter. Did you go to college? Stay in school.

[Roundball_Rock]

Great find! That dude props up Love but forgot about his -7.6 SRS

:lol

The other difference between the two players is Aldridge put his numbers up on playoff teams. When Love went to a playoff team, the numbers evaporated. This guy was dissing KAJ for scoring 15 PPG when he was 40+. What does he think prime Love did in Cleveland in the playoffs?

Aldridge in the playoffs: 21/9/2 (2009-2018)
Love in the playoffs: 15/10/2 (2015-2018)

Those are career numbers for Aldridge; Love's are all in the middle of his peak age years (ages 26-29) since he hasn't made the playoffs before or after.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Love had the Cavs' SRS at -7.6. :lol



Exactly. It is purely theoretical that Kawhi will surpass KD. I can see KD playing well at 35 or 36. Kawhi will probably be playing 2 games a week at that point, if he isn't already retired.

I never claimed Love is balling like you did for Aldridge. I said Love and Aldridge are same tier players, with love having the clear better peak.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

:lol

The other difference between the two players is Aldridge put his numbers up on playoff teams. When Love went to a playoff team, the numbers evaporated. This guy was dissing KAJ for scoring 15 PPG when he was 40+. What does he think prime Love did in Cleveland in the playoffs?

Aldridge in the playoffs: 21/9/2 (2009-2018)
Love in the playoffs: 15/10/2 (2015-2018)

Those are career numbers for Aldridge; Love's are all in the middle of his peak age years (ages 26-29) since he hasn't made the playoffs before or after.

Aldridge had lillard who has anchored top 3 offenses by himself.

Love had Rubio and Corey Brewer.

Big differences in supporting cast. 9th best SRS with Rubio/Brewer isn't bad at all.

[dbugz]

Best SF in the league :bowdown:

[HBK_Kliq_2]

:lol

The other difference between the two players is Aldridge put his numbers up on playoff teams. When Love went to a playoff team, the numbers evaporated. This guy was dissing KAJ for scoring 15 PPG when he was 40+. What does he think prime Love did in Cleveland in the playoffs?

Aldridge in the playoffs: 21/9/2 (2009-2018)
Love in the playoffs: 15/10/2 (2015-2018)

Those are career numbers for Aldridge; Love's are all in the middle of his peak age years (ages 26-29) since he hasn't made the playoffs before or after.

Career 51% TS for Aldridge in playoffs. He just takes 18 shots to Love's 12 shots. Aldridge career average 51% TS isn't pushing any arguments in his favor. Its not Love's fault that LeBron never passes him the ball.

[Roundball_Rock]

Career 51% TS for Aldridge in playoffs. He just takes 18 shots to Love's 12 shots. Aldridge career average 51% TS isn't pushing any arguments in his favor. Its not Love's fault that LeBron never passes him the ball.

If you round 51.6% down to 51%...shady to do that. :lol

Aldridge has a career 52% TS in the playoffs, Love 55%. As you noted, though, Aldridge operates on about 50% more volume so these aren't apples to apples comparison.

When Kawhi quit on the Spurs they went 47-35 with Aldridge as their best player. When LeBron left Cleveland, what happened with Love as the best player? :oldlol:

[HBK_Kliq_2]

If you round 51.6% down to 51%...shady to do that. :lol

Aldridge has a career 52% TS in the playoffs, Love 55%. As you noted, though, Aldridge operates on about 50% more volume so these aren't apples to apples comparison.

When Kawhi quit on the Spurs they went 47-35 with Aldridge as their best player. When LeBron left Cleveland, what happened with Love as the best player? :oldlol:

Take away the years Aldridge played with Kawhi. From 2010-present he's at 51.2 TS

Raptors 2018 and spurs 2018 playoff wins past the 1st round = 0

Lakers without Kareem 1991 = 9 wins past the 1st round

Kareem's Lakers has 9x the playoff wins past the 1st round then 2018 raptors/spurs have COMBINED.

[Roundball_Rock]

You need to keep cherry picking to get to your shaky points.

[Rico2016]

If you round 51.6% down to 51%...shady to do that. :lol

Aldridge has a career 52% TS in the playoffs, Love 55%. As you noted, though, Aldridge operates on about 50% more volume so these aren't apples to apples comparison.

When Kawhi quit on the Spurs they went 47-35 with Aldridge as their best player. When LeBron left Cleveland, what happened with Love as the best player? :oldlol:

And that's how you know it's a 3ball alt. Confirmed again.

Damn, how many does he operate now?

3ball
90s goat
HBK Kliq
Hoops NY
Rogue Borg
ClipperRevival
Shaquille O Neal
TimDuncan21mvp (possibly)

How many more can we add to his list.

[warriorfan]

Damn, we know its bad when you're comparing a 5 year PRIME to a 1 year past prime, Fail number one.

Additionally, Lakers clinched the playoff seed this year so double fail on your part. Be smarter. Did you go to college? Stay in school.

Oh so now you don’t want to turn a blind eye to all circumstance? :lol

You lose babyboi

[MrFonzworth]

And that's how you know it's a 3ball alt. Confirmed again.

Damn, how many does he operate now?

3ball
90s goat
HBK Kliq
Hoops NY
Rogue Borg
ClipperRevival
Shaquille O Neal
TimDuncan21mvp (possibly)

How many more can we add to his list.

Can confirm it's not 3ball.

[Axe]

And that's how you know it's a 3ball alt. Confirmed again.

Damn, how many does he operate now?

3ball
90s goat
HBK Kliq
Hoops NY
Rogue Borg
ClipperRevival
Shaquille O Neal
TimDuncan21mvp (possibly)

How many more can we add to his list.
Well, how about these bs dups huh?

LeCroix
TheCorporation
Elitepower23
light
SpaceJam2
jordan96
FromDowntown
And1allday
etc...

You need to keep cherry picking to get to your shaky points. Don't be a hypocrite please, slick.

[HoopsNY]

Irrelevant to a point about where their resumes stand today. The real question is will Kawhi erase that gap when it is all said and done? That is highly unlikely...

How is it irrelevant? If you have four additional seasons, you have a lot more to work with. It's very relevant when you consider that it allows for more opportunities at just about everything, including championships and MVPs.


The problem with this is KD isn't going to retire tomorrow. As Kawhi keeps playing, so will KD. So when again does he erase the gap? It is possible KD outlasts Kawhi. He is 28 and can't play full-time anymore.

That is true. But if history tells us anything, an achilles injury is *usually*, though not always, a death knell for most players. I think it's safe to say that KD might not perform at the same level as he did before.

But let's say they both continue as is. The bottomline is that Kawhi can offer similar offensive output with a far greater defensive impact. Kawhi has 2 final MVPs off of his own strength, KD has 2 titles on the strengths of super-teams. There is a stark difference.

[Roundball_Rock]

People think BigShotBob is Warriorfan but I suspect he is 3ball. It is a bit hard to tell, though, since MJ stans all sing from the same song sheet. Do they have daily Zoom meetings to coordinate or something? :lol


How is it irrelevant? If you have four additional seasons, you have a lot more to work with

Their resume is their resume. You don't get seasons erased because another guy has less. Do we erase FDR's extra terms when comparing him to other presidents?


But if history tells us anything, an achilles injury is *usually*, though not always, a death knell for most players. I think it's safe to say that KD might not perform at the same level as he did before.

Even then it is unlikely that Kawhi would surpass him. He would need KD to stop producing immediately and then have 4-5 elite seasons just to get close to KD and it is unclear if he can do that (if his knees are as bad as he claims).


But let's say they both continue as is. The bottomline is that Kawhi can offer similar offensive output with a far greater defensive impact. Kawhi has 2 final MVPs off of his own strength, KD has 2 titles on the strengths of super-teams. There is a stark difference.

No one has Kawhi ahead of KD, outside of people dazzled by him "carrying" a team that went 46-18 without him (better than the Clippers). The whole Kawhi tale is based on a false premise.

Kawhi won one of this FMVP's as a 14/6/2 player. It is worth as much as Iggy's. KD has real FMVP awards.

I don't even like KD but I can't deny he is top 15 all-time if he retired today--which Kawhi almost certainly will not be.

[HoopsNY]

People think BigShotBob is Warriorfan but I suspect he is 3ball. It is a bit hard to tell, though, since MJ stans all sing from the same song sheet. Do they have daily Zoom meetings to coordinate or something? :lol

Their resume is their resume. You don't get seasons erased because another guy has less. Do we erase FDR's extra terms when comparing him to other presidents

You can't mention what they've done to this point in terms of longevity numbers while conveniently ignoring the fact that they're 4 years apart where each respective player entered the league. It's not a fair comparison, especially when one of those seasons saw Kawhi nearly miss entirely due to injury.


Even then it is unlikely that Kawhi would surpass him. He would need KD to stop producing immediately and then have 4-5 elite seasons just to get close to KD and it is unclear if he can do that (if his knees are as bad as he claims).

If Kawhi wins another title with a finals MVP, then he most certainly would pass KD. KD's 2 rings and 2 Finals MVPs aren't respected due to him joining forces with an already 73 win team.

Prior to that, he relinquished a 3-1 series lead alongside Westbrook and lost in the finals against Miami in 2012. These series don't spell out the magnitude of KD's play, but KD's career isn't without blemish.

Focusing on Kawhi's team's W/L or historical success while ignoring KD's context is unfair.


No one has Kawhi ahead of KD, outside of people dazzled by him "carrying" a team that went 46-18 without him (better than the Clippers). The whole Kawhi tale is based on a false premise.

As opposed to a Golden State team that went to the finals twice with a 2 time MVP, winning one, and winning 73 games the other season, with a DPOY and a sharp shooter in Klay Thompson and former Finals MVP in Iguodala?

I'm not saying people should automatically anoint Kawhi, but KD isn't without blemish, either.


Kawhi won one of this FMVP's as a 14/6/2 player. It is worth as much as Iggy's. KD has real FMVP awards.

Comparing the two is a disservice to what actually happened. For one, Kawhi averaged 18/6/2 on 61% shooting and 58% from deep. In addition, Kawhi's contribution relative to his teammates was a fair pick, whereas with Iguodala, one could argue that Steph had a stronger case.

Kawhi had a 75% TS% and led his team in GmSC. The same can't be said for Iguodala whose TS% was 59% and his team was led in GmSc by Steph. And then there is defensive impact. Kawhi's defense was particularly impactful in games 3-4-5 of that series. Iguodala played well, but not to the extent that Kawhi did in his series.

Kawhi's finals performance was better alongside a 37 year old Tim Duncan and a 36 year old Ginobili. Neither player was an MVP or All-NBA 1st team, unlike Iggy's supporting cast that had the MVP and All-NBA 1st team pick in Steph, and All-NBA 3rd team in Klay. Iggy also had Draymond Green who was an All-Defensive 1st team selection. Kawhi didn't have any All-Defensive selections from his teammates that season.

And most importantly, the 2014 Miami Heat were a tougher competition than the 2015 Cavs, who lost Kyrie in OT and didn't have Kevin Love for the entire series.

I'm not sure why you're drawing this parallel.

[Roundball_Rock]

It's not a fair comparison,

It isn't fair that FDR got 4 terms and everybody else got 2. That doesn't mean everything he did after 1940 is erased to make it "fair" for his competition. That isn't how historical rankings/comparisons work. You are judged by what you actually did.

You also can't mention Kawhi missed a year without mentioning KD did as well--the difference being KD was hurt; Kawhi quit.


If Kawhi wins another title with a finals MVP, then he most certainly would pass KD

KD's resume still dwarfs his, even under this scenario.


KD's 2 rings and 2 Finals MVPs aren't respected due to him joining forces with an already 73 win team.

Not respected by who? He is top 15 all-time to many people already. Like it or not, that isn't being held against him.

It also isn't a legitimate argument to see Kawhi partisans going around pleading poverty of team when he is compared to other players. Kawhi has spent his entire career on stacked teams.


As opposed to a Golden State team that went to the finals twice with a 2 time MVP, winning one, and winning 73 games the other season, with a DPOY and a sharp shooter in Klay Thompson and former Finals MVP in Iguodala?

Kawhi partisans keep relying on team results. Durant>>>Kawhi without even needing to mention a single team result.


Comparing the two is a disservice to what actually happened. For one, Kawhi averaged 18/6/2 on 61% shooting and 58% from deep. In addition, Kawhi's contribution relative to his teammates was a fair pick, whereas with Iguodala, one could argue that Steph had a stronger case.

Both were based on 3 games, both were due to defending LeBron (who outproduced both Iggy and Kawhi), both were products of the media thinking that someone on the winning team must deserve it (cheapening the award), both were role players who had 3 good games, etc.



Kawhi's finals performance was better alongside a 37 year old Tim Duncan and a 36 year old Ginobili. Neither player was an MVP or All-NBA 1st team, unlike Iggy's supporting cast that had the MVP and All-NBA 1st team pick in Steph, and All-NBA 3rd team in Klay. Iggy also had Draymond Green who was an All-Defensive 1st team selection. Kawhi didn't have any All-Defensive selections from his teammates that season.

The top game scores in that series (removing LeBron and Kawhi): Duncan 12.9, Parker 11.6, Ginobili 10.9, Bosh 10.6, Diaw 8.5, Mills 8.2, Wade 7.9. Yet he was the one with poverty of team?

[tpols]

Exactly and LeBronBall turned him into a 9 points role player type guy. To say Lamarcus Aldridge is on a higher tier is just flat out wrong.

well look who you're talking to. :lol

the reality of the situation is they are both similar caliber players... lower end all NBA talent.

Portland Aldridge was nasty, twolve's klove a beast.

[HoopsNY]

It isn't fair that FDR got 4 terms and everybody else got 2. That doesn't mean everything he did after 1940 is erased to make it "fair" for his competition. That isn't how historical rankings/comparisons work. You are judged by what you actually did.

We're not discussing politics here. Not sure why you keep bringing up FDR. You're comparing apples to oranges.


KD's resume still dwarfs his, even under this scenario.

Absolutely not. If Kawhi wins a 3rd title with a different team where he is the leader, he will get the ultimate praise, period. KD's rings come off of the strength of a super-team. Like it or not, but they don't weigh as heavily as Kawhi's rings.


Not respected by who? He is top 15 all-time to many people already. Like it or not, that isn't being held against him.

Have you not been present the last 3 years? He might be top 15 all-time, but that doesn't mean his position is solidified.


It also isn't a legitimate argument to see Kawhi partisans going around pleading poverty of team when he is compared to other players. Kawhi has spent his entire career on stacked teams.

Sure, if we're comparing him to other players. You're talking about stacked teams when KD joined a team with a 2 time MVP award winner, coming off two finals, one title, with 67 and 73 wins, respectively. You can't seriously be pointing the finger one way in this discussion.


Kawhi partisans keep relying on team results. Durant>>>Kawhi without even needing to mention a single team result.

Why is everything so dramatic and the fact that people disagree with you so bothersome? Am I a "Kawhi partisan" for merely disagreeing with your assessment (and I don't disagree that up to this point KD has the better career).


Both were based on 3 games, both were due to defending LeBron (who outproduced both Iggy and Kawhi), both were products of the media thinking that someone on the winning team must deserve it (cheapening the award), both were role players who had 3 good games, etc.

But Kawhi's performance still topped Iguodala's, which was my point.


The top game scores in that series (removing LeBron and Kawhi): Duncan 12.9, Parker 11.6, Ginobili 10.9, Bosh 10.6, Diaw 8.5, Mills 8.2, Wade 7.9. Yet he was the one with poverty of team?

When did I say he had no supporting cast?

[Roundball_Rock]

We're not discussing politics here. Not sure why you keep bringing up FDR. You're comparing apples to oranges.

Ok. Let's do another one: Kareem versus Bird. Do we exclude Kareem's extra years because it is "unfair"? That isn't how history works: people are judged on what they did. If you did great things longer, that is a plus.


Absolutely not.

Their resumes speak for themselves. For instance in your scenario, all-NBA will be 9-4 and all-NBA 1st team likely will still be 6-2 for KD.


If Kawhi wins a 3rd title with a different team where he is the leader, he will get the ultimate praise

That depends on how his Spurs chip (role player) and Raptors' chip are ultimately assessed. He got a lot of traction based on the belief that he "carried" the Raptors. 46-18 shattered that. He also got the benefit of people conflating superstar Kawhi with role player Kawhi circa 14' and 13'. Let's see where the historical verdict lands on these. I suspect the nuance that will come with perspective of time will hurt Kawhi.


KD's rings come off of the strength of a super-team. Like it or not, but they don't weigh as heavily as Kawhi's rings.

I don't like what KD did but I can't penalize him historically for that. Arguing super teams as a point for Kawhi is never going to work for him.


Have you not been present the last 3 years? He might be top 15 all-time, but that doesn't mean his position is solidified.

I've been present long enough to know being on a stacked team is not something people ultimately care about when judging rings. I disagree--but it is what it is. One reason is people simply designate what is and isn't a stacked team based on convenience. 72 win teams are called "not stacked" by some, for instance.


Sure, if we're comparing him to other players

46-18.


You can't seriously be pointing the finger one way in this discussion.

I don't even bring up team results in the Kawhi vs. KD and Kawhi vs. KAJ discussions. He isn't close enough for that to even be relevant.


Am I a "Kawhi partisan" for merely disagreeing with your assessment

Semantics. You are arguing for Kawhi. Call it whatever you want.


But Kawhi's performance still topped Iguodala's, which was my point.

It doesn't really matter. It was the same type, even if you argue one was slightly better. Neither were traditional FMVP's. They got outproduced by their opposite number in fact.


the reality of the situation is they are both similar caliber players... lower end all NBA talent.

That is simplistic. How long were each at that level? What did they do on playoff teams (easier to post stats on a bad team)?

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Oh so now you don’t want to turn a blind eye to all circumstance? :lol

You lose babyboi

I got Rico banned, so mission accomplished. Maybe one day he will actually read the posts he replies too.