Wow, MJ shot 3/18 in a playoff game.

[AirGauge23]

I'm watching game 5 of the 93 playoffs against the Knicks, and just heard he shot 3/18 in game 3 of that series. Not a knock on him or anything, just surprised a guy that accustomed us to huge games (especially in the playoffs), would have such a bad shooting night. He did score 22 and added 11 assists, though.

[Take Your Lumps]

I'm watching game 5 of the 93 playoffs against the Knicks, and just heard he shot 3/18 in game 3 of that series. Not a knock on him or anything, just surprised a guy that accustomed us to huge games (especially in the playoffs), would have such a bad shooting night. He did score 22 and added 11 assists, though.

There you go.

Great players find a way.

[bokes15]

OMG, Jordan had a bad shooting night?? IMPOSSIBLE I TELL YOU!!!

[AirGauge23]

OMG, Jordan had a ban shooting night?? IMPOSSIBLE I TELL YOU!!!

I'd say 3/18 would be a notch above bad, IMO.

[bokes15]

I'd say 3/18 would be a notch above bad, IMO.
he still managed 22 and 11 so i'd say he made up for it.

[Kblaze8855]

Starks guarded him perfect that game but the Bulls still won. And MJ had 54 and 6 next game. And 29/14/11 the game after that.

[AirGauge23]

Starks guarded him perfect that game but the Bulls still won. And MJ had 54 and 6 next game. And 29/14/11 the game after that.

That's the one I'm watching.

This is the one with the multiple Smith stops, no?

[trig]

As long as you win, doesn't matter how bad your stats is. Superstars affects the game and his team much more than the stats

[Young HkM]

I'm watching game 5 of the 93 playoffs against the Knicks, and just heard he shot 3/18 in game 3 of that series. Not a knock on him or anything, just surprised a guy that accustomed us to huge games (especially in the playoffs), would have such a bad shooting night. He did score 22 and added 11 assists, though.

Nobody goes out and plays a perfect game every night. He's only human. (Barely)

[Loki]

22 pts/8 reb/11 ast/4 stl/2 blk in the 3-18 FG game, which was a 20 point win. :D That's called impacting the game in other ways when your shot is off or when the defense is loading up on you.

And he had 54 the next game. And a triple-double the game after that, as kblaze noted. And his defense was ridiculous that entire series -- he was everywhere making things happen defensively.

[Richie2k6]

I'm watching game 5 of the 93 playoffs against the Knicks, and just heard he shot 3/18 in game 3 of that series. Not a knock on him or anything, just surprised a guy that accustomed us to huge games (especially in the playoffs), would have such a bad shooting night. He did score 22 and added 11 assists, though.
His numbers were still there. That's all that matters.

[Chrono90]

I'm watching game 5 of the 93 playoffs against the Knicks, and just heard he shot 3/18 in game 3 of that series. Not a knock on him or anything, just surprised a guy that accustomed us to huge games (especially in the playoffs), would have such a bad shooting night. He did score 22 and added 11 assists, though.

that's because he was FOULED alot and he made the foulshots, he had 3 field goals but managed to score 22 points. It's from foul shots.

[dejordan]

was that the game he had the sprained right wrist and shot left-handed?

[Kiddlovesnets]

Well, sounds like a surprise to everyone because the guy was Jordan.

[geeWiz15]

wow. ONE bad shooting night in how many career playoff games? and his team still won? and he had 22pts on 18 shots plus 11 assists?

wow, what garbage. none of today's stars ever have bad playoff shooting outputs

[Poseidon]

wow. ONE bad shooting night in how many career playoff games? and his team still won? and he had 22pts on 18 shots plus 11 assists?

wow, what garbage. none of today's stars ever have bad playoff shooting outputs

Jordan nut-huggers like Loki never seem to miss a "bad" playoff game by today's stars....especially KOBE BRYANT (whom he criticizes by the quarter, let alone an entire game, LOL).

[jn2rons]

I'm as big a MJ/Bulls fan as there is on this board.

There was an MJ prior to those 6 rings.
There was an MJ that played PG one year and was like woah!! :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
There was also an MJ that would go 6-27 or 8-30 from the field.

So what. All big time scorers have those types of off nights. Mike used to get KILLED for being a ballhog back in the day. Had the media existed, as it presently stands....he'd probably make Kobe look like Steve Nash. :confusedshrug:

Bottom line is this...He ultimately won 6 rings and everyone old enough to remember, blocked out what used to be, and everyone too young to remember now see MJ as God in hightops.

I watch Classic ESPN every now and then and caught a Bulls/Portland game, and Mike was killin'em that night. I'd forgotten just how great that he was.

[poeticism707]

If Jordan played today, plenty of people would dislike him for the same reason Kobe Bryant is disliked: both are arrogant, self-centered competition junkies who would elbow their grandmothers with authority to win a game. Also, these horrendous shooting nights are just as common for Jordan and Kobe as anyone else.

[poeticism707]

Jordan nut-huggers like Loki never seem to miss a "bad" playoff game by today's stars....especially KOBE BRYANT (whom he criticizes by the quarter, let alone an entire game, LOL).

:applause:

[AirGauge23]

Apparently a lot of you missed the "not a knock on him" part. :confusedshrug:

[EricForman]

If Jordan played today, plenty of people would dislike him for the same reason Kobe Bryant is disliked: both are arrogant, self-centered competition junkies who would elbow their grandmothers with authority to win a game. Also, these horrendous shooting nights are just as common for Jordan and Kobe as anyone else.

that's where you're wrong. And you're on drugs thinking Jordan was just as likely to have a bad night as Kobe. Jordan was far more consistent and less likely to have "horrible" nights than just about any superstar today. Especially in the playoffs That's what made him Jordan. I dare you to find more than, like, three or four playoff games out of how many Jordan has played where he wasn't clearly the best player out on the court. Whether it be him being outplayed by someone straight up or someone putting putting a far superioer statline over Jordan, or someone taking over a game late with Jordan out there on the court...... find me how many times that has happened. Hell, I'll even go with your memory, named me examples/games where what I just said has happened. I bet you can't find more than three, four games max. And I'm talking about playoffs... you know, when things matter, not crappy regular season games against the Toronto Raptors.

You find me four, and then I'll find you 10-15 of the same for every superstar in the league today and probably in history.

[Loki]

Also, these horrendous shooting nights are just as common for Jordan and Kobe as anyone else.

Not really:


Games with a minimum of 15 shots made and 60% or better fg shooting:

Jordan 48
Kobe 11

Games with a minimum of 15 shots missed and 40% or worse fg shooting:

Jordan 27
Kobe 61


Of the 143 50 point games since 1986, in terms of shooting percentage:

Michael Jordan's games include #1, #5, #8, #17, #21, #22, etc.

Kobe Bryant's games include:

10 of the 30 worst

7 of the 15 worst

The 3 worst

#118, #120, #122, #129, #131, #132, #133, #141, #142, #143


Since 1986-87, there are 13 50 point games with under 50% shooting, and Kobe Bryant is responsible for 6 of them.


Games with under 50% shooting:

Michael Jordan: 466 (43% of games)

Kobe Bryant: 489 (62% of games)


Games with under 48% shooting:

Michael Jordan: 437 (41% of games)

Kobe Bryant: 470 (60% of games)


Games with under 46% shooting:

Michael Jordan: 360 (33% of games)

Kobe Bryant: 417 (53% of games)


Games with under 44% shooting:

Michael Jordan: 288 (1 out of every 4 games)

Kobe Bryant: 353 (1 out of every 2 games)


Games with under 42% shooting:

Michael Jordan: 228 (1 out of every 5 games)

Kobe Bryant: 307 (2 out of every 5 games)


Games with under 40% shooting:

Michael Jordan: 154 (1 out of every 7 games)

Kobe Bryant: 246 (1 out of every 3 games)


Games with under 35% shooting:

Michael Jordan: 85 (8 out of every 100 games)

Kobe Bryant: 156 (20 out of every 100 games)


Games with under 30% shooting:

Michael Jordan: 39 (1 out of every 28 games)

Kobe Bryant: 81 (1 out of every 10 games)


Games with 40 points and under 50% shooting:

MJ: 27 (16% of his 40 pt games)

Kobe: 40 (47% of his 40 pt games)


Games with 40 points and under 45% shooting:

MJ: 13 (8% of his 40 pt games)

Kobe: 18 (21% of his 40 pt games)


Games with 40 points and under 40% shooting:

MJ: 2 (1% of his 40 pt games)

Kobe: 7 (8% of his 40 pt games)


50 point games with under 50% shooting:

Michael Jordan: 1 of his 31 games (15-31, 48%)

Kobe Bryant: 6 of his 21 games


50 point games with under 45% shooting:

Michael Jordan: 0

Kobe Bryant: 3



So yeah....no.

[picc84]

omg :oldlol:

obviously jordan was superior to kobe, but that is obsessive and pathetic beyond any reason. :roll:

WOW :roll:

[Poseidon]

Not really:


Games with a minimum of 15 shots made and 60% or better fg shooting:

Jordan 48
Kobe 11

Games with a minimum of 15 shots missed and 40% or worse fg shooting:

Jordan 27
Kobe 61


Of the 143 50 point games since 1986, in terms of shooting percentage:

Michael Jordan's games include #1, #5, #8, #17, #21, #22, etc.

Kobe Bryant's games include:

10 of the 30 worst

7 of the 15 worst

The 3 worst

#118, #120, #122, #129, #131, #132, #133, #141, #142, #143


Since 1986-87, there are 13 50 point games with under 50% shooting, and Kobe Bryant is responsible for 6 of them.


Games with under 50% shooting:

Michael Jordan: 466 (43% of games)

Kobe Bryant: 489 (62% of games)


Games with under 48% shooting:

Michael Jordan: 437 (41% of games)

Kobe Bryant: 470 (60% of games)


Games with under 46% shooting:

Michael Jordan: 360 (33% of games)

Kobe Bryant: 417 (53% of games)


Games with under 44% shooting:

Michael Jordan: 288 (1 out of every 4 games)

Kobe Bryant: 353 (1 out of every 2 games)


Games with under 42% shooting:

Michael Jordan: 228 (1 out of every 5 games)

Kobe Bryant: 307 (2 out of every 5 games)


Games with under 40% shooting:

Michael Jordan: 154 (1 out of every 7 games)

Kobe Bryant: 246 (1 out of every 3 games)


Games with under 35% shooting:

Michael Jordan: 85 (8 out of every 100 games)

Kobe Bryant: 156 (20 out of every 100 games)


Games with under 30% shooting:

Michael Jordan: 39 (1 out of every 28 games)

Kobe Bryant: 81 (1 out of every 10 games)


Games with 40 points and under 50% shooting:

MJ: 27 (16% of his 40 pt games)

Kobe: 40 (47% of his 40 pt games)


Games with 40 points and under 45% shooting:

MJ: 13 (8% of his 40 pt games)

Kobe: 18 (21% of his 40 pt games)


Games with 40 points and under 40% shooting:

MJ: 2 (1% of his 40 pt games)

Kobe: 7 (8% of his 40 pt games)


50 point games with under 50% shooting:

Michael Jordan: 1 of his 31 games (15-31, 48%)

Kobe Bryant: 6 of his 21 games


50 point games with under 45% shooting:

Michael Jordan: 0

Kobe Bryant: 3



So yeah....no.

Damn. No wonder why Juanita wanted a divorce from Michael. You're on his nuts more than she ever was.

Congrats.

[Loki]

omg :oldlol:

obviously jordan was superior to kobe, but that is obsessive and pathetic beyond any reason. :roll:

WOW :roll:

It's just a copy and paste. I'm not crazy enough to calculate all that myself...yet. :)

[picc84]

It's just a copy and paste. I'm not crazy enough to calculate all that myself...yet. :)

Yeah, sure. :oldlol:

[poeticism707]

I've noticed no one addressed the correlation between Jordan and Kobe, it being the their competitive natures bordering on (and crossing) criminality? Do you want to know which of them is more classless? Flip a coin, or better yet, read of book of quotes by each (I've done the latter, not the former).

[Loki]

Yeah, sure. :oldlol:

It is. I was directed to the site by a youtube user who set it up. There was a topic a few weeks back on its contents. Here's the link:

http://www.kobevsjordan.bravehost.com/

[jn2rons]

Loki...
If we absolutely MUST go down this road...MJ/Kobe

I'm sure even you would have to attribute the major difference in their games is that Kobe fires up 3's at an Toine'esque pace.

At the same point in their career's Kobe's taken 2777 3's....MJ had only taken 1247 3's. Chalk it up to poor shot selection, bail outs, or ego...whatever. He's got a better deep jumper than MJ

There's your FG% right there. There's the rationale behind all of those #'s you just "copied and pasted" :)

If anything, the similarities in DWade and MJ are more comparable....Hence DWade's nice FG%

[jn2rons]

MJ knew his limits... and still was the greatest ever. His 3pt shot was rarely a weapon of choice.

Kobe can't even see his ceiling....and that his downfall, in a way. He can just as easily fire uo 70-80pts...as he could 20, on 6/33 from the field.

[Poseidon]

MJ knew his limits... and still was the greatest ever. His 3pt shot was rarely a weapon of choice.

Kobe can't even see his ceiling....and that his downfall, in a way. He can just as easily fire uo 70-80pts...as he could 20, on 6/33 from the field.

Couldn't agree more with everything you said.

Kobe falls in love with his jumper too much and coupled with him having to bail out his worthless teammates as the shot clock expires = lower FG%.

[Loki]

Loki...
If we absolutely MUST go down this road...MJ/Kobe

I'm sure even you would have to attribute the major difference in their games is that Kobe fires up 3's at an Toine'esque pace.

At the same point in their career's Kobe's taken 2777 3's....MJ had only taken 1247 3's. Chalk it up to poor shot selection, bail outs, or ego...whatever. He's got a better deep jumper than MJ

There's your FG% right there. There's the rationale behind all of those #'s you just "copied and pasted" :)


No, that's actually not the reason. Here are their respective numbers from age 21-28 only on two-point attempts:

Jordan: 53.4%

Kobe: 48.1%


So Jordan has a large +5.3% shooting advantage even if we exclude all 3-point attempts for both players. And, make no mistake: a 5.3% gap is enormous -- it's larger (by 1.2%) than the gap between Jordan and Shaq's FG% on two-pointers through the same age, to give you an idea.


Regardless, however, the reason that Kobe (and others) take so many threes is because they can't penetrate as well as Jordan did due to lesser athletic gifts and lesser ability to read and react to defenses. I don't see why a player should be penalized for taking higher quality (i.e., high percentage) shots, or why a player should be excused for taking lower percentage shots.


Kobe falls in love with his jumper too much and coupled with him having to bail out his worthless teammates as the shot clock expires = lower FG%.

Because Kobe's the only player in history who's taken a lot of bail-out shots. :rolleyes:

[DLeagueWannabe]

Not really. Here are their respective numbers from age 21-28 only on two-point attempts:

Jordan: 53.4%

Kobe: 48.1%


So Jordan has a large 5.3% shooting advantage even if we exclude all 3-point attempts for both players. And, make no mistake: a 5.3% gap is enormous -- it's larger (by 1.2%) than the gap between Jordan and Shaq's FG% on two-pointers through the same age, to give you an idea.


Regardless, however, the reason that Kobe (and others) take so many threes is because they can't penetrate as well as Jordan did due to lesser athletic gifts and lesser ability to read and react to defenses. I don't see why a player should be penalized for taking higher quality (i.e., high percentage) shots, or why a player should be excused for taking lower percentage shots.


So pretty much everyone from previous eras is more athletic than Kobe? Because almost the whole damn 80's & 90's shot better percentages than Kobe. I don't buy it. Face it, Bryant's main problem is his shot selection, and it'll never change, he's damn near 29.

I've been saying it for years and I'll keep on saying it...

Mike-UNC=Kobe

[Loki]

So pretty much everyone from previous eras is more athletic than Kobe? Because almost the whole damn 80's & 90's shot better percentages than Kobe. I don't buy it.

It's not only athleticism, but also ability to read and react to defenses quickly and shot selection. Basketball IQ, basically. As you yourself note, that's Kobe's fatal flaw. And that's the biggest difference between Jordan and Kobe imo. Unfortunately (for Kobe fans), it's not something you can "learn."


Face it, Bryant's main problem is his shot selection, and it'll never change, he's damn near 29.

His biggest problem, yes.


Mike-UNC=Kobe

Not really.

[LakerWarrior12]

It is. I was directed to the site by a youtube user who set it up. There was a topic a few weeks back on its contents. Here's the link:

http://www.kobevsjordan.bravehost.com/



Silly Bruce..

The guy can't seem to shut his damn mouth and move on with life, even when younger players won't listen to him.


Everybody knows that there will be no MJ, but its obvious that most KB Fans didn't watch MJ play in the 90s. I watched MJ played in his last three seasons as a Bull.

[Loki]

Everybody knows that there will be no MJ, but its obvious that most KB Fans didn't watch MJ play in the 90s. I watched MJ played in his last three seasons as a Bull.

I'm not trying to insult you personally or anything )nor am I saying you're suggesting this personally), but a big part of why so many younger (under 25) fans think that Kobe's really close to (or better than) Jordan is because they only saw past-prime, 33-35 year old Jordan during the second three-peat. Kobe plays a lot like that version of Jordan (not as good, but stylistically it's close enough). Not so much like pre-retirement Jordan, age 25-30.

[LakerWarrior12]

I'm not trying to insult you personally or anything )nor am I saying you're suggesting this personally), but a big part of why so many younger (under 25) fans think that Kobe's really close to (or better than) Jordan is because they only saw past-prime, 33-35 year old Jordan during the second three-peat. Kobe plays a lot like that version of Jordan (not as good, but stylistically it's close enough). Not so much like pre-retirement Jordan, age 25-30.


You're not insulting me at all.:D

My whole entire family are all Bull fans(Yes I am a Bull fan, but a Laker fan too) Not Important though.


Anyways I agree on that part.

And honestly, you can't compare any player to MJ.

[Diesel J]

Not really:


Games with a minimum of 15 shots made and 60% or better fg shooting:

Jordan 48
Kobe 11

Games with a minimum of 15 shots missed and 40% or worse fg shooting:

Jordan 27
Kobe 61


Of the 143 50 point games since 1986, in terms of shooting percentage:

Michael Jordan's games include #1, #5, #8, #17, #21, #22, etc.

Kobe Bryant's games include:

10 of the 30 worst

7 of the 15 worst

The 3 worst

#118, #120, #122, #129, #131, #132, #133, #141, #142, #143


Since 1986-87, there are 13 50 point games with under 50% shooting, and Kobe Bryant is responsible for 6 of them.


Games with under 50% shooting:

Michael Jordan: 466 (43% of games)

Kobe Bryant: 489 (62% of games)


Games with under 48% shooting:

Michael Jordan: 437 (41% of games)

Kobe Bryant: 470 (60% of games)


Games with under 46% shooting:

Michael Jordan: 360 (33% of games)

Kobe Bryant: 417 (53% of games)


Games with under 44% shooting:

Michael Jordan: 288 (1 out of every 4 games)

Kobe Bryant: 353 (1 out of every 2 games)


Games with under 42% shooting:

Michael Jordan: 228 (1 out of every 5 games)

Kobe Bryant: 307 (2 out of every 5 games)


Games with under 40% shooting:

Michael Jordan: 154 (1 out of every 7 games)

Kobe Bryant: 246 (1 out of every 3 games)


Games with under 35% shooting:

Michael Jordan: 85 (8 out of every 100 games)

Kobe Bryant: 156 (20 out of every 100 games)


Games with under 30% shooting:

Michael Jordan: 39 (1 out of every 28 games)

Kobe Bryant: 81 (1 out of every 10 games)


Games with 40 points and under 50% shooting:

MJ: 27 (16% of his 40 pt games)

Kobe: 40 (47% of his 40 pt games)


Games with 40 points and under 45% shooting:

MJ: 13 (8% of his 40 pt games)

Kobe: 18 (21% of his 40 pt games)


Games with 40 points and under 40% shooting:

MJ: 2 (1% of his 40 pt games)

Kobe: 7 (8% of his 40 pt games)


50 point games with under 50% shooting:

Michael Jordan: 1 of his 31 games (15-31, 48%)

Kobe Bryant: 6 of his 21 games


50 point games with under 45% shooting:

Michael Jordan: 0

Kobe Bryant: 3



So yeah....no.

everyone applaud Loki.That's some serious ownage:applause: :oldlol:

*saves stats to notepad*

[LakerWarrior12]

everyone applaud Loki.That's some serious ownage:applause: :oldlol:

*saves stats to notepad*


And you did not know this? :oldlol:

[Diesel J]

So pretty much everyone from previous eras is more athletic than Kobe? Because almost the whole damn 80's & 90's shot better percentages than Kobe. I don't buy it. Face it, Bryant's main problem is his shot selection, and it'll never change, he's damn near 29.


It's Bball IQ:D

That's why Wade shoots such a high FG%.Same thing with PG's like John Stockton,Tony Parker and Steve Nash.It's about taking advantage of what you do best instead of shooting low % shots.All stars take bailout shots at the end of the clock by the way..Kobe has low bball IQ on offense as far as FGA's go.

[LakerWarrior12]

It's Bball IQ:D

That's why Wade shoots such a high FG%.Same thing with PG's like John Stockton,Tony Parker and Steve Nash.It's about taking advantage of what you do best instead of shooting low % shots.All stars take bailout shots at the end of the clock by the way..Kobe has low bball IQ on offense as far as FGA's go.


If I remember, Wade was shooting at 46 percent during his rookie season. before Shaq came.

Kobe is a great player, but just because he has a 43-46 percent shooting, doesn't really make him a bad player.

If you want an example of a player who takes way too many shots, take Jamal Crawford as an example. he very rarely makes his shots. Steve Francis is another example.


If Kobe had 2 other all stars around him, he would have a better Field Goal percentage. Look at MJ during his final year with the Bulls. He was shooting at 46 percent because Pippen was injured for most of the season.

[Kobe=MVP07`]

If I remember, Wade was shooting at 46 percent during his rookie season. before Shaq came.

Kobe is a great player, but just because he has a 43-46 percent shooting, doesn't really make him a bad player.

If you want an example of a player who takes way too many shots, take Jamal Crawford as an example. he very rarely makes his shots. Steve Francis is another example.


If Kobe had 2 other all stars around him, he would have a better Field Goal percentage. Look at MJ during his final year with the Bulls. He was shooting at 46 percent because Pippen was injured for most of the season.


i agree

and although having a shaq in the lineup will boost up ur FG% ..it help on ur outside shot since they keep doubling

but for a slasher like kobe shaq clogged the middle during kobes young yrs

and now that he has all the mileage he is doing wat mj did later in his career jump shots [prob was he had to resort to it in the begining of his career too]

and dont even bring up wade, shaq wasnt even a top 30 player when wade came along

wade had the 46% as a rookie which is exceptional obviosuly he is gna improve every year, especialy bieng the firsdt option

[Vragrant]

Funny thing about that game. They asked Jordan how he felt after that 3/18 performance and he said,"I felt like how Darryl Walker feels every night".

(Jordan was joking of course as he and Walker are pretty close)

[Knoe Itawl]

Loki...
If we absolutely MUST go down this road...MJ/Kobe

I'm sure even you would have to attribute the major difference in their games is that Kobe fires up 3's at an Toine'esque pace.

At the same point in their career's Kobe's taken 2777 3's....MJ had only taken 1247 3's. Chalk it up to poor shot selection, bail outs, or ego...whatever. He's got a better deep jumper than MJ

There's your FG% right there. There's the rationale behind all of those #'s you just "copied and pasted" :)

If anything, the similarities in DWade and MJ are more comparable....Hence DWade's nice FG%

A. So who told Kobe to shoot all those 3s? You're acting as if that somehow excuses the difference in fg%, when it doesn't. Shot selection has a lot to do with fg% and Kobe's is terrible a lot of the time. If it's so easy for him to match Jordan's efficencey WHY DOESN'T HE JUST TAKE LESS 3'S? Until he does, and matches Jordan's fg%, get outta here with that excuse making garbage.
Plus, as Loki pointed out, Jordan still beats Kobe on two pointers anyway. In other words, you're dead wrong.

B. How is Loki "on Jordan's nuts" to correct a poster who erroneously tried to claim that Kobe and Jordan were similar in efficency? So posting the facts behind it makes you on someone's nuts? That's just stupid.

[EricForman]

Nasty, so the Kobe fans make some BS "Jordan was as prone with bad games as Kobe was", so Loki posts a comprehensive stat to prove that wrong. Knowing they can't argue that, they just turn around and say "hey man you're obsesed with Jordan"

:oldlol:

Funny how me and Loki get accused of all this nut hugging, yet we rarely start threads, nor do you see us with some Jordan avartar. Nor do we have weak usernames like "JordanIzGod" or "Jordan23".

[EricForman]

Loki, I admire your efforts. But why are you even spending time calculating and putting out statistics to prove

"Jordan was more consistent and not as likely to have bad shooting games as Kobe"

???

You don't need numbers to prove that. 99% of fans already know that is fact base on their eyes. It's just the usual three clown Kobe fans trying to act like they can't see the difference.

Saying Jordan had less "bad games" than Kobe did is like saying Shaq was more dominating than David Robinson. YOU DON'T NEED NUMBERS AND STATS to make that claim, cause anyone and everyone who's objective knows that's fact.

[EricForman]

Funny thing about that game. They asked Jordan how he felt after that 3/18 performance and he said,"I felt like how Darryl Walker feels every night".

(Jordan was joking of course as he and Walker are pretty close)


cue the Kobe fans saying "Jordan is a prick, remember when he sucker punched Steve Kerr and destroyed Kwame Brown's life"

[Loki]

Kobe is a great player, but just because he has a 43-46 percent shooting, doesn't really make him a bad player.


No one said Kobe is a "bad player" -- he's a great player, actually.


If Kobe had 2 other all stars around him, he would have a better Field Goal percentage.

Kobe never even cracked 47% with the most dominant player of the last 30 years drawing multiple defenders every time downcourt, and despite averaging a lower volume of points back then. Sorry, but the evidence doesn't bear this claim out.


Look at MJ during his final year with the Bulls. He was shooting at 46 percent because Pippen was injured for most of the season.

Several things:

1) Jordan's FG% decreased pretty linearly with age. He was 35 in 1998; it had little to do with Pippen's absence.

2) After an adjustment period over the first 15 games (see next point)), in the next 20 games without Pippen Jordan shot 46.8% -- better than Kobe in a better defensive league (95.6 ppg/45.0% FG in '98 versus 98.7 ppg/45.8% FG in '07).

3) Jordan's team when Pippen was out that year was even more offensively challenged than Kobe's Lakers are. It took Jordan some time to readjust to being aggressively doubled and trapped like he was early in his career (especially since he no longer had the athleticism to deal with those doubles the way he'd have liked to). That made for a slow start. He adjusted, however, and still managed to shoot better than '07 Kobe did over the final 20 games without Pippen (46.8% vs. 46.3%) without anything resembling a credible offensive threat (Kukoc was his second best option at 14.2 ppg/45.3% FG while Odom was at 15.9 ppg/46.8% FG). And again, he was 35 years old.


4) Jordan managed to consistently shoot 52+% despite having comparable/worse teams than Kobe does early in his career ('85-'89). Funny how he managed that -- shouldn't he have shot worse?



If Kobe had 2 other all stars around him, he would have a better Field Goal percentage.

How did Jordan manage to shoot exceptionally well before he had "2 other all-stars" around him in the mid-late 80's, then? I like how you focus on 1998 and a 35 year old Jordan, yet ignore his startling efficiency at volume for 4-5 seasons while playing with poor teams.

Btw, Jordan never played with two other all-stars beside him.


but for a slasher like kobe shaq clogged the middle during kobes young yrs

BS. In fact, Kobe had free lanes to the rim once he penetrated because opposing big men were reluctant to come off Shaq and give up a dunk on the offensive rebound or pass. Kobe used this fact to great effect in the SA series in 2001. And if you're a slasher playing with a big man who draws double and triple teams, you should have a field day cutting to the basket on the weak side. Then again, Kobe was never great at moving without the ball (he's only gotten better at it the last couple of seasons), so most of his moves required him to have the ball to initiate, which was his own flaw.

[Diesel J]

If I remember, Wade was shooting at 46 percent during his rookie season. before Shaq came.



Wade has shot close to 50% the last couple of years and it's because he doesnt settl for jumpers like Kobe.Unlike Wade,Kobe played with PRIME SHAQ and still couldn't shoot a high % from the field.:lol:

[LakerWarrior12]

Loki. Jordan did have more than 1 all star.


This was way back before Kobe's time. The First three peat. B.J Armstrong, Scottie Pippen, and Horace Grant. These were either all stars or players that played along with Jordan and did very good.


This thread should end ASAP! The thread has went downhill since Page 2.

[Loki]

Loki. Jordan did have more than 1 all star.


This was way back before Kobe's time. The First three peat. B.J Armstrong, Scottie Pippen, and Horace Grant. These were either all stars or players that played along with Jordan and did very good.


This thread should end ASAP! The thread has went downhill since Page 2.

Again, Jordan never had two all-stars beside him. Armstrong and Grant were not all-stars during the first three-peat, and even during the year of their selection (1994), they were two of the weakest all-star picks in history, Armstrong especially. Sorry, but a 14 pt/4 ast player is not an all-star caliber player. Grant had more of a case (15/11 plus great defense), but was still a weak selection.

And again, you conveniently ignore the 4-5 seasons ('85-'89) Jordan posted stellar efficiency numbers without any other all-stars beside him. No question Kobe's efficiency would go up playing alongside better players, but he's just not in Jordan's league regardless. It's not your premise I'm disagreeing with, it's your implied conclusion. You're acting as if Jordan was only more efficient because of team composition, while the evidence contradicts this on both sides (Jordan from '85-'89 and Kobe with Shaq not cracking 47% FG).

[RainierBeachPoet]

If Jordan played today, plenty of people would dislike him for the same reason Kobe Bryant is disliked: both are arrogant, self-centered competition junkies who would elbow their grandmothers with authority to win a game.
it may be true that they are uber competitive but i dont think they are disliked for the same reason


the primary difference for the "h@te" is:

jordan never raped anyone (or at least was never accused in public the way kobe was)

[Diesel J]

jordan never raped anyone (or at least was never accused in public the way kobe was)


people hated Kobe way before that though

[Richie2k6]

Oh my. By just looking, this has become a Kobe vs Jordan thread. :rolleyes:

[LakerWarrior12]

Oh my. By just looking, this has become a Kobe vs Jordan thread. :rolleyes:



Which is why this thread should have ended on the second page.


and what the hell is wrong with the Title page? Since when did Rape have to do with the Playoff game?

[LakerWarrior12]

Lakers homer stop makes excuse foir Kobe with his poor Leaderships :no:




Lol what? Did I mention that Kobe had leadership Skills? No I didn't, stfu. We Laker fans know that Kobe has no leadership skills and this isn't another dumb excuse.

[Cannonball]

Damn. No wonder why Juanita wanted a divorce from Michael. You're on his nuts more than she ever was.

Congrats.
Like you can talk...

[Agent_Zero]

:lol: at this thread and OP. wow the goat shoots bad in one game. but comes back with 54 and a triple double the next two. great players make up for their off games.

[beau_boy04]

I'm watching game 5 of the 93 playoffs against the Knicks, and just heard he shot 3/18 in game 3 of that series. Not a knock on him or anything, just surprised a guy that accustomed us to huge games (especially in the playoffs), would have such a bad shooting night. He did score 22 and added 11 assists, though.



no doubts my man i totally agree with you MJ is the GOAT :applause:

Thanks :cheers:

[winwin]

so it's ok Bosh don't feel bad it happens
and MJ had a 2-for-19 night
oh and lol @ loki in this thread

[Rnbizzle]

You just proved even the greatest of all time have their off-days, the question is; how is this surprising you?

[nbacardDOTnet]

1st half against ZO 's heat (1997 ECF Game # 4)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inMFAHnkfbc

then

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iO4l98K-1o

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/0%20Players/Michael%20Jordan/Humiliation/1997gameno4.jpg

[OldSchoolBBall]

1st half against ZO 's heat (1997 ECF Game # 4)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inMFAHnkfbc

then

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iO4l98K-1o

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/0%20Players/Michael%20Jordan/Humiliation/1997gameno4.jpg

That game - which, make no mistake, is one of Jordan's worst playoff games ever - is actually a perfect example of what made Jordan the GOAT. Dude goes something like 1 or 2 for 23 FG through the early part of the 4th quarter, he then goes on a tear, hitting like 7 of his next 8 or 9 FG's to pull the Bulls within 2 points late in the game. They did lose, but it was amazing that he could turn such a horrible performance around when he needed to just like that. Steve Kerr in an interview said it was one of the most amazing things he ever saw.

[Bandito]

I'm watching game 5 of the 93 playoffs against the Knicks, and just heard he shot 3/18 in game 3 of that series. Not a knock on him or anything, just surprised a guy that accustomed us to huge games (especially in the playoffs), would have such a bad shooting night. He did score 22 and added 11 assists, though.
Not everything is gold bro. Sometimes they can be bricks.

[AlphaWolf24]

I'm as big a MJ/Bulls fan as there is on this board.

There was an MJ prior to those 6 rings.
There was an MJ that played PG one year and was like woah!! :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
There was also an MJ that would go 6-27 or 8-30 from the field.

So what. All big time scorers have those types of off nights. Mike used to get KILLED for being a ballhog back in the day. Had the media existed, as it presently stands....he'd probably make Kobe look like Steve Nash. :confusedshrug:

Bottom line is this...He ultimately won 6 rings and everyone old enough to remember, blocked out what used to be, and everyone too young to remember now see MJ as God in hightops.

I watch Classic ESPN every now and then and caught a Bulls/Portland game, and Mike was killin'em that night. I'd forgotten just how great that he was.


I almost had a heart attack....You sir are one of the smartest Basketball fans I have come across in 7 years on the interwebz....

:applause: :applause: :applause:

[DStebb716]

The only reason he ended up with so many points is because of how many calls he got from the refs. Not hating, just saying. It's the truth. 99.9% of the stars get the calls.

[OldSchoolBBall]

The only reason he ended up with so many points is because of how many calls he got from the refs. Not hating, just saying. It's the truth. 99.9% of the stars get the calls.

Actually, one of the main reasons he shot as poorly as he did that game was because of all the grabbing, holding, and hacking the Knicks were doing to him; his calls that game were justified.

[Indian guy]

Crappy shooting side, I thought MJ played a terrific game otherwise. Here are the highlights for the game (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9u3TwLdgoM).

[guy]

Its crazy that Jordan followed up this bad game with two of the greatest playoff performances ever, a 54 point game to tie the series, and a ridiculous triple double to take the lead in the series. :oldlol: Its funny that Jordan had two of the greatest playoff performances ever in one of the worst playoff series of his career.

[necya]

50 point games with under 50% shooting:

Michael Jordan: 1 of his 31 games (15-31, 48%)

i think MJ had 39 50 point games. i have 37 on DVD :D
i think he had 20 of his 50pts games between 86-87 and 88-89.
also, notice that his first came in 86 and the last in dec 01...

[97 bulls]

50 point games with under 50% shooting:

Michael Jordan: 1 of his 31 games (15-31, 48%)

i think MJ had 39 50 point games. i have 37 on DVD :D
i think he had 20 of his 50pts games between 86-87 and 88-89.
also, notice that his first came in 86 and the last in dec 01...
I remeber a game in which kobe scored 40 pts but only made like 5 shots. Anybody remember this game?

[necya]

I remeber a game in which kobe scored 40 pts but only made like 5 shots. Anybody remember this game?

i don't think it was 5, but he had some of the crappiest 40pts games for sure with AI. his 17 on 47 FG was the worst perf i've ever seen in a basketball game.

[97 bulls]

i don't think it was 5, but he had some of the crappiest 40pts games for sure with AI. his 17 on 47 FG was the worst perf i've ever seen in a basketball game.
No it was like 5 bro. I remeber cuz he made like 25 fts or something. Maybe not exactly 5 but it was damn close.

[SFMF]

22 pts/8 reb/11 ast/4 stl/2 blk in the 3-18 FG game, which was a 20 point win. :D That's called impacting the game in other ways when your shot is off or when the defense is loading up on you.

And he had 54 the next game. And a triple-double the game after that, as kblaze noted. And his defense was ridiculous that entire series -- he was everywhere making things happen defensively.

This.

[ashlar]

So shooting 16% while having well rounded stats is better than shooting 25% with well rounded stats? Hey just sayin......

[SFMF]

So shooting 16% while having well rounded stats is better than shooting 25% with well rounded stats? Hey just sayin......

Well, I haven't read anything else after the first page.

[guy]

So shooting 16% while having well rounded stats is better than shooting 25% with well rounded stats? Hey just sayin......

If it was game 7 of the NBA Finals, he would get way more crap for it and deservingly so.

[Psileas]

No it was like 5 bro. I remeber cuz he made like 25 fts or something. Maybe not exactly 5 but it was damn close.

It was actually 7 FGM (3 were 3-pointers) and 23 FT's. Of course, going by some of the comments written here, it doesn't matter whether you score on FG's or FT's, as long as you do the job.
BTW, I do remember a game where Barkley scored 26 points on 2 FG's and 22 FT's, so that was technically even "worse".

[Lebron23]

He also averaged 32.2 ppg on 40% from the field in that series. The 1993 Knicks was a very good defensive Team. Pippen averaged 23 ppg on 51 FG% vs. Knicks in that playoffs.

[Lebron23]

1st half against ZO 's heat (1997 ECF Game # 4)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inMFAHnkfbc

then

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iO4l98K-1o

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/0%20Players/Michael%20Jordan/Humiliation/1997gameno4.jpg


Jordan only shot 38.7 FG% (30.2 ppg) in that series, and the Bulls still beat the Heat in 5 games.

:biggums: :biggums: :coleman:

[Straight_Ballin]

I'm watching game 5 of the 93 playoffs against the Knicks, and just heard he shot 3/18 in game 3 of that series. Not a knock on him or anything, just surprised a guy that accustomed us to huge games (especially in the playoffs), would have such a bad shooting night. He did score 22 and added 11 assists, though.

Ya, but the GOAT is also 6/6 against better defense.

LeFraud soon to be 2/6

[Mr Feeny]

Jordan only shot 38.7 FG% (30.2 ppg) in that series, and the Bulls still beat the Heat in 5 games.

:biggums: :biggums: :coleman:


Are you asking to be made fun of? Were you around back then to watch him get scratched, shoved, and hand checked back then? Do me a favor and stop trolling because your setting yourself for a bad situation in which you're going to get picked on by plenty of people on this board.

An idiotic bump after Lebron shoots 37%fg. Are you kidding me?

[Mr Feeny]

He also averaged 32.2 ppg on 40% from the field in that series. The 1993 Knicks was a very good defensive Team. Pippen averaged 23 ppg on 51 FG% vs. Knicks in that playoffs.

Ofcourse Pippen wasn't the one being double and triple team. But seeing as how you weren't alive back then, we'll give you pass for not knowing what the hell you're talking about.

[Mr Feeny]

Ya, but the GOAT is also 6/6 against better defense.

LeFraud soon to be 2/6

Especially in that game four. Jackson called timeouts twice in the fourth because Jordan was BLEEDING. They showed replays and Starks wasn't handchecking him. He was actually scratching him. Scratching another player. On a basketball court.

[Dro]

omg :oldlol:

obviously jordan was superior to kobe, but that is obsessive and pathetic beyond any reason. :roll:

WOW :roll:
Don't get mad because the shut down any hope delusional Kobe fans had that he was even in the same ballpark as MJ...Some call it ether, Kobe fans call it pathetic:confusedshrug:

[diamenz]

guess mj wasn't feelin' it.

came back in game four with 54 pts.