Kyrie or Klay?

[ELITEpower23]

Who would you rather have?

[imdaman99]

Klay fits on every team. But Kyrie is a better player even though he has his mental issues. I would take Klay 9 out of 10 times.

[warriorfan]

How does op have so many accounts? What the hell...What is your PayPal? Don’t you live in the Philippines? How many chinapesos do we have to pay for you to leave? Seriously give me a number.

[ELITEpower23]

How does op have so many accounts? What the hell...What is your PayPal? Don’t you live in the Philippines? How many chinapesos do we have to pay for you to leave? Seriously give me a number.

Lincoln and Terra Bella
San Jose ghetto

Easy now lil boi :lol

[ELITEpower23]

Klay fits on every team. But Kyrie is a better player even though he has his mental issues. I would take Klay 9 out of 10 times.

Yeah I agree here. Klay is such a great player to have.

Great shooter and defender, doesnt need the ball in his hands, has the ability to go OFF.

[FultzNationRISE]

Klay and it isnt close.

I actually wouldnt want Kyrie... at all.

Like I wouldnt add him to my team, even on a bargain contract.

[Axe]

Klay is better role player

[CTbasketball92]

I think Kyrie is a better player to have in almost every situation, but he's literally always either injured or causing trouble in an organization. Klay other than last year is generally pretty healthy and you know you'll get very good defense, great shooting and rock solid scoring in every situation. Doesn't need the ball and his spacing is always there.

[brooks_thompson]

I’ll take the guy who doesn’t have a season ending injury every other year like clockwork

[pegasus]

Those who say Klay are forgetting about his struggles in the finals. He’s been a great playoff performer who totally disappears in the finals. Whereas Kyrie is made for the biggest stage.

[ELITEpower23]

Those who say Klay are forgetting about his struggles in the finals. He’s been a great playoff performer who totally disappears in the finals. Whereas Kyrie is made for the biggest stage.

:lol Ummm, you miss his last playoff series? Kyrie only looks amazing with his daddy, watch his Boston playoffs.

[Stephonit]

I think the Warriors made a strategic error by going all-in on Klay guarding Kyrie in 2016. Kyrie was going off despite Klay's defense. Klay on the other hand was cold on offense. If Klay's energy was diverted to offense it might have done a better job in canceling out Kyrie's contribution for his team.

[Axe]

Those who say Klay are forgetting about his struggles in the finals. He’s been a great playoff performer who totally disappears in the finals. Whereas Kyrie is made for the biggest stage.
If you think that's the case, then watch curry. He is much worse than klay in the finals.

[Roundball_Rock]

Klay. Klay is an upgraded Reggie Miller with the same shooting but also elite defense.

People think Kyrie is more accomplished than Klay but their resumes are similar. Klay just doesn't get the hype Kyrie does. (Kyrie has played one more season than Klay.)

All-NBA: 2 each
All-star: Kyrie 6, Klay 5
All-D: Klay 1, Kyrie 0
Top 10 MVP: Klay 1, Kyrie 0


Those who say Klay are forgetting about his struggles in the finals. He’s been a great playoff performer who totally disappears in the finals

He was carrying the Warriors in the finals the last time we saw him. For the series, even with injuries, he averaged 26/5/2 on 71% TS. That isn't disappearing.

[warriorfan]

Klay. Klay is an upgraded Reggie Miller with the same shooting but also elite defense.

People think Kyrie is more accomplished than Klay but their resumes are similar. Klay just doesn't get the hype Kyrie does. (Kyrie has played one more season than Klay.)

All-NBA: 2 each
All-star: Kyrie 6, Klay 5
All-D: Klay 1, Kyrie 0
Top 10 MVP: Klay 1, Kyrie 0



He was carrying the Warriors in the finals the last time we saw him. For the series, even with injuries, he averaged 26/5/2 on 71% TS. That isn't disappearing.

How about his other Finals?

*cricket chirp*

:roll:


Clown ass mother ****er

[Wally450]

Kyrie is a cancer to every team he goes to and quits on them. Hell, he quit on Duke too.

[jayfan]

Klay and it isnt close.

I actually wouldnt want Kyrie... at all.

Like I wouldnt add him to my team, even on a bargain contract.

This. And it's sad. Who would have dreamed people would legit feel this way just 4 years after the championship shot. He was on top of the basketball world. He's brought it all on himself.


.

[Axe]

Kyrie has never even brought the cavs to a playoff appearance on his own alone

[tpols]

if the dubs had kyrie in 2016, and cavs had klay, GSW wouldve easily won.

kyrie in any given game is capable of being the best player on the floor in a way klay can't.

[tpols]

Klay. Klay is an upgraded Reggie Miller with the same shooting but also elite defense..

roundball at it again. :lol

Klay is very mediocre shooting in the playoffs. 107 ORTG to Reggie's 120+. On lower volume. It's not even close.

we talked about this....

[Stanley Kobrick]

Klay. Klay is an upgraded Reggie Miller with the same shooting but also elite defense.

People think Kyrie is more accomplished than Klay but their resumes are similar. Klay just doesn't get the hype Kyrie does. (Kyrie has played one more season than Klay.)

All-NBA: 2 each
All-star: Kyrie 6, Klay 5
All-D: Klay 1, Kyrie 0
Top 10 MVP: Klay 1, Kyrie 0



He was carrying the Warriors in the finals the last time we saw him. For the series, even with injuries, he averaged 26/5/2 on 71% TS. That isn't disappearing.
High IQ user. Great post :cheers:

[tpols]

H2H

Kyrie

27/4/4 on 116 ORTG. GOAT Clutch.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/DimpledEmotionalHypacrosaurus-size_restricted.gif

Klay 20/3/1 on 105 ORTG.

Awful in crunchtime.

That's as apples to apple's as it gets fellas. Both were 2nd options on their teams, and Klay even guarded irving full time.

yikes.

[Stanley Kobrick]

If you think that's the case, then watch curry. He is much worse than klay in the finals.

imagine if Stephen Curry had to actually play defense instead of Klay exerting energy on both ends picking up his man

[Phoenix]

if the dubs had kyrie in 2016, and cavs had klay, GSW wouldve easily won.

kyrie in any given game is capable of being the best player on the floor in a way klay can't.


So basically a 2016 Cavs lineup of Thompson, Love, Lebron, Klay and Delly loses to Bogut, Green, Barnes, Steph, and Kyrie? That's a horrible defensive backcourt for starters.

And Klay has shown he can be the best player in a high stakes game:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njanF2mUtZM

Klay would be the most prolific drive and kick 3point target Lebron has ever had in his career, and an all-NBA level defender to boot. He's pretty much the type of 3 n D player Lebron works best with, except he's also a a top 15ish level player to boot.i don't know....Kyrie has shown to be a better finals performer but that Cavs lineup above just looks better to me. :confusedshrug:

[tpols]

Dude they literally played head to head at the highest of stakes, even guarding each other and kyrie destroyed him.

What more do you want?

Klay can't do this.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClArCksWQAQ_EqP.jpg

the fella literally went wilt chamberlain on him.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Dude they literally played head to head at the highest of stakes, even guarding each other and kyrie destroyed him.

What more do you want?

Klay can't do this.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClArCksWQAQ_EqP.jpg

the fella literally went wilt chamberlain on him.

Except Klay did do that in game 6 vs. OKC facing elimination that very same season.

Only it was 46 and not 41.

So now head to head on limited sample sizes is the determining factor. You're like a monkey just slinging shit at the wall on the fly. Cringe inducing

[ELITEpower23]

Dude they literally played head to head at the highest of stakes, even guarding each other and kyrie destroyed him.

What more do you want?

Klay can't do this.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClArCksWQAQ_EqP.jpg

the fella literally went wilt chamberlain on him.

:roll: "head-to-head"

Imagine saying that and forgetting Kyrie had LeBron @ 30-11-9-3-2 on 49% while Klay had 22-4-4-1-1 on 40% Curry

[Phoenix]

Dude they literally played head to head at the highest of stakes, even guarding each other and kyrie destroyed him.

What more do you want?

Klay can't do this.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClArCksWQAQ_EqP.jpg

the fella literally went wilt chamberlain on him.

Problem with your synopsis is your conclusion that Kyrie on any given moment can be the best player in a way that Klay can't. Sure, if Lebron wasn't playing in the same series. And you tip-toed over the fact that Kyrie and Steph are a shit defensive backcourt. Kyrie duplicating his numbers except for the Warriors has too many other hurdles to clear than just bolling it down to him and Klay.

I hate to bear bad news but as much of an offensive weapon that Kyrie can be, his actual impact on W/Ls is negligible. You only need to look at the Cavs record with him playing and no Lebron, or the Celtics being worse with him than with Kemba, who talent-wise is like a diet cinnamon coke version of Kyrie, to see that.

[Stanley Kobrick]

Problem with your synopsis is your conclusion that Kyrie on any given moment can be the best player in a way that Klay can't. Sure, if Lebron wasn't playing in the same series. And you tip-toed over the fact that Kyrie and Steph are a shit defensive backcourt. Kyrie duplicating his numbers except for the Warriors has too many other hurdles to clear than just bolling it down to him and Klay.

I hate to bear bad news but as much of an offensive weapon that Kyrie can be, his actual impact on W/Ls is negligible. You only need to look at the Cavs record with him playing and no Lebron, or the Celtics being worse with him than with Kemba, who talent-wise is like a diet cinnamon coke version of Kyrie, to see that.
:cheers:

[tpols]

Problem with your synopsis is your conclusion that Kyrie on any given moment can be the best player in a way that Klay can't. Sure, if Lebron wasn't playing in the same series.

this is proof you didn't watch things as they occurred.

The Lebron Kyrie cavs were a your turn my turn team. Eye test would tell you that, but statistically they were the 13th ranked assist team while the dubs were GOAT in that arena.

Lebron didn't alleviate anymore pressure off kyrie than curry did off klay. In fact, it's the opposite. Curry was a much stronger pressure valve.

Unlike comparing guys from today to those of yesterday, we have a direct apples to apples matchup here to see who was better.

How can you possibly argue against the lopsided results?

[Shooter]

Klay and it isnt close.

I actually wouldnt want Kyrie... at all.

Like I wouldnt add him to my team, even on a bargain contract.

I would want Klay for a season or for a full playoff run no doubt about that but I would want Kyrie for 1 series because all of his piling injuries would worry me to much and his inability to play defense would worry me over the course of a full season or playoff run. For 1 series you can hide him on defense, maybe, but for a full year is too hard. So I can choose Klay for length and for a playoffs run but if its just one series maybe Kyrie. I guess it is still tough because Klay went off in the game 6 vs OKC I think he dropped 41 on 11 for 18 3-pointers, to the tune of 60% 3p which is rare to see.

[Phoenix]

this is proof you didn't watch things as they occurred.

The Lebron Kyrie cavs were a your turn my turn team. Eye test would tell you that, but statistically they were the 13th ranked assist team while the dubs were GOAT in that arena.

Lebron didn't alleviate anymore pressure off kyrie than curry did off klay. In fact, it's the opposite. Curry was a much stronger pressure valve.

Unlike comparing guys from today to those of yesterday, we have a direct apples to apples matchup here to see who was better.

How can you possibly argue against the lopsided results?

Proof that I didn't watch things as they occurred? You made a point that Kyrie has the ability to be the best player in a game that Klay doesn't. Ignoring the video I posted as evidence to the contrary, are you saying that if Kyrie ends up on the Warriors... he's going to end up being the best player in the series over Lebron? Because that's the point I was making so I need some clarity. Even if Kyrie ended up playing individually better than Klay, it's not going to equal out Steph being subpar and if Lebron is dropping the numbers he ended up with. You're overvaluing Kyrie's impact on *winning* and I say again, look at the W/L numbers. Nobody is arguing that he can't post numbers. But whats their tangible effect on winning outside of when he's partnered with Lebron? I mean, any evidence would help me see your point better.

What makes you think Kyrie in place of Klay maintains that same assist ranking? Klay is an off-ball assist target. Kyrie is primarily an iso scorer. You say that Lebron and Kyrie were a 'whose turn is it' offense. Granted......but what makes you think Curry and Kyrie are any different? He's not filling Klay's off-ball role which was crucial to that offense. He's going to be out there dancing on you. Now in that scenario Curry could play off-ball, but then you're expecting Kyrie to be the same kind of facilitator that Steph is. And he isn't. Kyrie's a great shooter but he didn't have Steph's ability to be an off-ball threat, nor did he command gravity past 30 feet like Curry does. Which spreads out the court opening it up for Klay. So your premise that the Warriors being a GOAT assist team with Curry/Klay carries over effortlessly switching Klay with Kyrie is faulty at its core. They're different players who excel in different ways, and create different dynamics playing off Steph.

Again.....you tippy-toe around how bad Kyrie and Curry together are defensively. Not only as individual defenders, but who's chasing around Klay off screens all day?

[tpols]

What makes you think Kyrie in place of Klay maintains that same assist ranking?

Phoenix,

The Celtics were a top 5 assist team in 2019 with Kyrie as lead dog. 67 games. That's a good sample size.

He could play in a ball movement system. You're being very ignorant to make that statement and it puts your whole argument on thin ice.

[BigShotBob]

Klay couldn't guard Kyrie and was relieved when he left the Cavs so.....

[Phoenix]

Phoenix,

The Celtics were a top 5 assist team in 2019 with Kyrie as lead dog. 67 games. That's a good sample size.

He could play in a ball movement system. You're being very ignorant to make that statement and it puts your whole argument on thin ice.

I've edited half of that post, was on a phone and now my PC. Reread if you choose, not that it will make any difference on your opinion.

[Phoenix]

I'm just waiting for your comments on Kyrie and Steph as a defensive tandem, Tpols. 4th mention. Any comment on that at all? Or you gonna keep sidestepping it?

[tpols]

that argument is on even thinner ice.

Kyrie's defense was actually good. He literally shutdown a peak UMVP Curry. He was the primary defender on him in the worst series of his life.

and Chef is a plus ranked defender by every metric.

If me and you laid down money on a series with the two guys flipped, i would be fleecing you.

I'd almost feel bad.

[tpols]

Also, Bogut and Dray were the cornerstones to the dubs defense. They were the playoffs blocks leader and DRPM champs.

The fact that you think Golden State's defense was contingent on Klay is hilarious.

[ArbitraryWater]

Klay in last finals prolly better than Kyrie ever was in finals

Klay fits better on top teams IMO. But depends on what they have also.

Ree can get hot.

[Phoenix]

So we're pretending Steph was 100% in 2016? The very next year. Steph did 27/9/8 61|% TS. Kyrie was playing in that series yeah?

I got about 8 different talking points there. Most of em you haven't addressed. Starting with this idea that Kyrie can be the best player in a way that Klay can't. A 5 second search on youtube shut that down. And you have no retort to the idea that Kyrie on the Warriors isn't going to outperform Lebron, since you know that premise would be silly on your part to double down on.

[Phoenix]

Also, Bogut and Dray were the cornerstones to the dubs defense. They were the playoffs blocks leader and DRPM champs.

The fact that you think Golden State's defense was contingent on Klay is hilarious.

So we're now at the creating strawman stage. Where is that stated? And are you saying Klay is an immaterial defender in this series?

[tpols]

So we're now at the creating strawman stage. Where is that stated? And are you saying Klay is an immaterial defender in this series?

he totally was. Kyrie lit him up with dray suspended and bogut hurt. That's where the demogrpahic i posted above comes from.


Klay couldn't guard Kyrie and was relieved when he left the Cavs so.....

Klay could NOT guard kyrie.

to be fair, not many could.

[Phoenix]

So which of the two, Steph or Kyrie, is chasing Klay around all game? We'll do this one bullet point at a time.

[Axe]

imagine if Stephen Curry had to actually play defense instead of Klay exerting energy on both ends picking up his man
He'd end up letting kyrie score over 45 points while being worse in the shots he take at the same time. :oldlol:

[imdaman99]

People saying Kyrie lit Klay up... did y'all watch that series? Sure he scored some on Klay but the objective for the Cavs was to put Curry in pick and rolls and force Curry to guard whoever. We got people talking about Kyrie shitting on Klay, and posting the gif of Kyrie hitting the shot on Curry? What? OK :lol

[warriorfan]

Klay’s supposed lock down defense is one of the biggest myths ever. Where’s the evidence to show he’s anything more than mediocre? I think he’s made one defensive team in his career. He has never had any incredible defensive advanced stats. Then people try to throw around this rep like he is a best defender in the league, go out and put the clamps on someone type of guy. It’s not like that. He keeps a focus on the defensive end but his defense is slightly above average of anything.

[Shooter]

Klay’s supposed lock down defense is one of the biggest myths ever. Where’s the evidence to show he’s anything more than mediocre? I think he’s made one defensive team in his career. He has never had any incredible defensive advanced stats. Then people try to throw around this rep like he is a best defender in the league, go out and put the clamps on someone type of guy. It’s not like that. He keeps a focus on the defensive end but his defense is slightly above average of anything.

No one is saying he is at a LeBron level but he is also higher than a Curry level. He is like a MJ level, right around a 7.5/10

[3ball]

Klay and it isnt close.

I actually wouldnt want Kyrie... at all.

Like I wouldnt add him to my team, even on a bargain contract.

only Kyrie and his 28 ppg could win the 16' Finals .. klay's horrible Finals stats and weak closing ability wouldn't cut it

Klay can't destroy a league MVP in the Finals

[light]

Klay please, thanks.

[Stanley Kobrick]

after 50 replies it seems 95% of users would take Klay over Kyrie. fascinating results

[CTbasketball92]

Phoenix,

The Celtics were a top 5 assist team in 2019 with Kyrie as lead dog. 67 games. That's a good sample size.

He could play in a ball movement system. You're being very ignorant to make that statement and it puts your whole argument on thin ice.


Yeah people are really obtuse about this when it comes to Kyrie. He's never been the gunner that people imagined, and I think if he was his career PPG would likely be higher. He plays in control a lot for a guy that can create a good shot at any time.


A big part of being able to play in a ball movement heavy offense is being able to score efficiently in multiple ways. Kyrie is an elite ISO player, an elite P&R player, an elite spot-up shooter, an elite off-the-dribble shooter (38.6% on off the dribble threes this season, often over 37%), an elite midrange shooter (48% usually), three-point shooter (about 40% for his career on good volume), can finish with both hands and more. That's why he's averaged about 24/6 on 60 TS% on near 50-40-90 splits dating back to 2016-2017. Thats being elite in a LeBron-centric your turn my turn offense, Celtics ball movement offense and now the nets offense on career highs (small sample, but likely sustainable).

Kemba, who people thought would dominate the ball less than Kyrie on the Celtics, spends more time dominating the ball than Kyrie did while scoring less on worse efficiency.


I'd say Kyrie's injury history would make me take Klay, but I do think Kyrie's easily proven to be a top 12-15 player over the last four years when he's healthy, and when you're able to be that consistent with production in separate systems it's a testament to an overall talent that doesn't really need other parts to be great, unlike some situational stars (Klay might be that type of player). But Klay is very healthy and just less mercurial a personality.

[3ball]

Kyrie 1/2 in Finals

Klay 1/3 without KD

a team would be lottery if klay was their best scorer

[scuzzy]

a team would be lottery if klay was their best scorer

so the Cavs from 11-14 with Kyrie in the East :oldlol:

[light]

Klay's shooting and defense > Kyrie's ball hogging and conspiracy theories

[3ball]

so the Cavs from 11-14 with Kyrie in the East :oldlol:
lebron was lottery his first couple years too

don't be so obviously biased

[LAmbruh]

Klay won multiple playoff series without Curry or Durant


Kyrie had to collude to a #1 ranked Celtics just to get out of the first round only to be backdoor swept by Eric Bledsoe :oldlol:

[Shooter]

Klay won multiple playoff series without Curry or Durant


Kyrie had to collude to a #1 ranked Celtics just to get out of the first round only to be backdoor swept by Eric Bledsoe :oldlol:

COT. Daaamn

:roll: :roll:

[Smoke117]

How does op have so many accounts? What the hell...What is your PayPal? Don’t you live in the Philippines? How many chinapesos do we have to pay for you to leave? Seriously give me a number.

The irony of one fakkot with multiple accounts calling out another...amusing.

[Axe]

Kyrie's best record in the cavs without bran was only 33 games which they achieved in the 2013-14 season.

[Marchesk]

I'd draft Kyrie over Klay for a lottery team, but i'm taking Klay over Kyrie on a good team.

[Phoenix]

People looked at the 18 Celtics making it to game 7 of the conference finals and extrapolated that 'shit, add Kyrie to THAT team with his championship experience, and they're a serious contender'. But they crashed and burned in the 2nd round in 2019 with him. But we're supposed to believe that switching Kyrie and Klay in 2016 reverses the results of that series? Kyrie in isolation has a more diverse skillset but he also has some negative intangibles. That Warriors team created an aura of great chemistry and harmony and I don't think Kyries oddball quirks blend seamlessly into that. Klay would have fit onto the Cavs a lot easier. Dude once dropped like 60 off the ball using 11 dribbles. That's an ideal situation for Lebron.

[ArbitraryWater]

People looked at the 18 Celtics making it to game 7 of the conference finals and extrapolated that 'shit, add Kyrie to THAT team with his championship experience, and they're a serious contender'. But they crashed and burned in the 2nd round in 2019 with him. But we're supposed to believe that switching Kyrie and Klay in 2016 reverses the results of that series? Kyrie in isolation has a more diverse skillset but he also has some negative intangibles. That Warriors team created an aura of great chemistry and harmony and I don't think Kyries oddball quirks blend seamlessly into that. Klay would have fit onto the Cavs a lot easier. Dude once dropped like 60 off the ball using 11 dribbles. That's an ideal situation for Lebron.

Haha, good point

[Roundball_Rock]

Klay could go to any team and be an asset; Kyrie has been a cancer in multiple cities now.


People looked at the 18 Celtics making it to game 7 of the conference finals and extrapolated that 'shit, add Kyrie to THAT team with his championship experience, and they're a serious contender'. But they crashed and burned in the 2nd round in 2019 with him.

Not only that, look at how much better Boston got in 2020 with him gone. Walker, a theoretically lesser player, was similar statistically to Irving but the real difference is teammates played better with Walker whereas Irving dramatically reduced the production of Tatum, Brown, etc.

[Bronbron23]

It really depends on where hes going and what kind of system hes going to. In a system that plays more team ball with on and off ball movement then definitely klay. He moves with the best of them. In a more ball dominant system where one guy dictates the offense and they use alot of iso's than id say kyrie.

That said kyrie is a weird dude. Id personally take klay just because of that.

[ImJosh]

Kyrie is the better basketball player

But you would rather have Klay on your team

He's a MUCH better defender, way more effective without the basketball in his hands meaning he synergizes a lot easier next to other stars and also comes with a lot less drama