If we care about lives, why not prohibit alcohol and smoking and require weight limit

[FultzNationRISE]

It’s truly astonishing how many people are flat out okay with the gov ordering them to stay in their homes for months on end over a gloried flu virus that mostly kills 80 year old people.

And YES, #80YrOldLivesMatterLess

I mean cigs and alcohol and obesity kill tons of people. Theyre still permissible at peoples discretion bc we have social freedom.

But if you dont actually care about freedom, and the corona hysteria proves many of you dont... why arent you clamoring for the prohibition of every unhealthy vice? Why not have government mandated weight limits? Bc otherwise some people will die.

Why not return to alcohol probibition? Otherwise some people die.

Why not return to horse and buggy rides instead of automobiles zooming around the interstate? 35k people die in auto accidents each year, most of whom are much younger than 80.




This kind of thing proves the average person doesnt even think. Just... isnt capable of really thinking. It’s a total contradiction between policy and values, and most will just go along with it if they see other people going along with it. Lets face it, most of you are simple minded idiots who only do what the group does. You have no cerebral depth.

“Stay in your homes bc govt says corona will take lives, but then everyone go out and smoke and eat filth and then get liquored up and drive around!!!!”


Makes no sense.

Honestly you people are animals.

[DoctorP]

why diss animals?

[warriorfan]

If we really cared about lives we would ban McDonalds, smoking, alcohol, and cars.

[Proctor]

If we really cared about lives we would ban McDonalds, smoking, alcohol, and cars.
Let's ask Monta

[warriorfan]

Let's ask Monta

:roll:

I don’t know...him and Air Bonner are probably pretty biased on the subject :lol

[DoctorP]

ill ****ing eat a big mac

and chicken nuggs

[Proctor]

:roll:

I don’t know...him and Air Bonner are probably pretty biased on the subject :lol
Let's not forget AJ. Although he could always clean toilets somewhere else.

[DoctorP]

https://s3.amazonaws.com/strange-cargo-production/product/grids/lightbox/73-1317154983.jpg?1317154983

[Cleverness]

https://s3.amazonaws.com/strange-cargo-production/product/grids/lightbox/73-1317154983.jpg?1317154983

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/DeficientBigLeafwing-size_restricted.gif

[Im Still Ballin]

I am amazed you restrained yourself and didn't mention "the list."

You could have easily mentioned them here...



This kind of thing proves the average person doesnt even think. Just... isnt capable of really thinking. It’s a total contradiction between policy and values, and most will just go along with it if they see other people going along with it. Lets face it, most of you are simple minded idiots who only do what the group does. You have no cerebral depth.

Super impressed dude. Major growth.

:applause:

[warriorfan]

Let's not forget AJ. Although he could always clean toilets somewhere else.

It’s great he made it to America. I imagine toilet cleaning isnt a very lucrative profession in India. I don’t even think they have toilets over there.

[falc39]

Smoking is prohibited in many areas. Realistically, the answer has to be somewhere in between the extreme opinions we are seeing of “this is harmless and we shouldn’t do anything” vs. “we need to shut everything down.”

Not everything is so simple.

[highwhey]

I am amazed you restrained yourself and didn't mention "the list."

You could have easily mentioned them here...



Super impressed dude. Major growth.

:applause:

:oldlol:

[FultzNationRISE]

I am amazed you restrained yourself and didn't mention "the list."

You could have easily mentioned them here...



Super impressed dude. Major growth.

:applause:


It’s simple Pavlovian conditioning my guy.

Now that everyone has seen the list many times, and is familiar with the names on it, I no longer need to spell it out each time. Whenever I refer generally to idiots and dummies and sheep, everyone will instinctively associate it with those on The List.


This is how we science.

[Im Still Ballin]

Regarding the actual topic of this thread...

Typical hypocrisy. Nothing more, nothing less.

We mark and draw our own lines in the sand. Always have, always will.

This is an obvious truth -- you seem to point these out a lot.

[FKAri]

You make a very good point OP. In fact why don't you hand over that licensed fire arm as well. We wouldn't want any accidents.

[Im Still Ballin]

It’s simple Pavlovian conditioning my guy.

Now that everyone has seen the list many times, and is familiar with the names on it, I no longer need to spell it out each time. Whenever I refer generally to idiots and dummies and sheep, everyone will instinctively associate it with those on The List.


This is how we science.

Amazing.

You're playing chess out here...

Always 2 moves ahead.

:applause:

[FultzNationRISE]

Smoking is prohibited in many areas. Realistically, the answer has to be somewhere in between the extreme opinions we are seeing of “this is harmless and we shouldn’t do anything” vs. “we need to shut everything down.”

Not everything is so simple.


Yes, so then you agree with me.

Because Im not saying it’s nothing. I conceded that just like smoking, alcohol, obesity, firearms, and automobiles, covid does take some peoples lives. It happens to be proportionally very few, and skews extremely old, and is probably over represented as an actual cause of death due to the hysteria. Nonetheless, it is technically “something.”

I think a government-mandated three month national shutdown of nearly everything is astonishingly extreme.

And the fact so many are so apathetically compliant is what galls me.

[FultzNationRISE]

You make a very good point OP. In fact why don't you hand over that licensed fire arm as well. We wouldn't want any accidents.


Exactly my point. I didnt originally use firearms as an example bc most covid nuts are also anti-gun nuts, so it wouldnt be exposing a contradiction. That would be pointing out consistency in their obsession with throwing the baby out with the bath water in general.

When it comes to cars, alcohol, cigs etc is where there are clearly paradoxical attitudes.

[falc39]

Yes, so then you agree with me.

Because Im not saying it’s nothing. I conceded that just like smoking, alcohol, obesity, firearms, and automobiles, covid does take some peoples lives. It happens to be proportionally very few, and skews extremely old, and is probably over represented as an actual cause of death due to the hysteria. Nonetheless, it is technically “something.”

I think a government-mandated three month national shutdown of nearly everything is astonishingly extreme.

And the fact so many are so apathetically compliant is what galls me.

I don’t know if I completely agree with you, I just think it is more complicated. It can be more about taking people’s lives. Death rates only show people who die. Some people who don’t die and have serious complications aren’t reflected in that. I don’t think those who stayed in a hospital for weeks but didn’t die enjoyed it either. We also don’t really know what the long term effects can be. It’s just not a perfect process right now because there are a lot of unknowns and expecting governments to handle this perfectly is also unrealistic.

What galls me is there are some really low-hanging fruit solutions we can try in between the extremes like wearing masks in public, yet the stubborn and extreme people think it’s an assault on their freedom. I get the freedom argument, but ffs, be smart people, something as small as wearing masks isn’t the hill to choose to die on when it comes to fighting for our freedom and liberty.

[FultzNationRISE]

I don’t know if I completely agree with you, I just think it is more complicated. It can be more about taking people’s lives. Death rates only show people who die. Some people who don’t die and have serious complications aren’t reflected in that. I don’t think those who stayed in a hospital for weeks but didn’t die enjoyed it either. We also don’t really know what the long term effects can be. It’s just not a perfect process right now because there are a lot of unknowns and expecting governments to handle this perfectly is also unrealistic.

What galls me is there are some really low-hanging fruit solutions we can try in between the extremes like wearing masks in public, yet the stubborn and extreme people think it’s an assault on their freedom. I get the freedom argument, but ffs, be smart people, something as small as wearing masks isn’t the hill to choose to die on when it comes to fighting for our freedom and liberty.


You wearing a mask in public isnt an assault on my freedom. You can wear 10 masks on top of each other and I’ll give you a cordial waive hello. If youre vulnerable to covid and decide to stay in your home for the time being, I take no offense. I may choose to wear a mask in some situations, in others I may not. I might go out sometimes, I might stay in other times. And you can do as you wish. That’s all gravy.

A governer announcing that nobody may walk around in public without a mask on, nor gather together unless it is to support BLM, while decreeing that I may set foot only in businesses which the governer has decided make the “covid cut,” is, indeed, an assault on my freedom.

For someone to not find the latter galling is... pretty galling.

[FultzNationRISE]

It also galls me that the government has openly been manipulating statistics on covid and everyone knows it... but hardly anyone cares.

Whatever actual, objective “level” of threat this thing is... it is clearly far below the level at which the public has reacted to it. Which is clearly a calculation by the govt, just like the response to 9/11 and rushing into Iraq and terror threat levels and stories about WMD.

It’s just another round of neocon grip-tightening.

And everyone is too stupid to care.

Theyre too busy being scared.

[Axe]

I'm glad drugs weren't included in the op because they're money producers.

[falc39]

You wearing a mask in public isnt an assault on my freedom. You can wear 10 masks on top of each other and I’ll give you a cordial waive hello. If youre vulnerable to covid and decide to stay in your home for the time being, I take no offense. I may choose to wear a mask in some situations, in others I may not. I might go out sometimes, I might stay in other times. And you can do as you wish. That’s all gravy.

A governer announcing that nobody may walk around in public without a mask on, nor gather together unless it is to support BLM, while decreeing that I may set foot only in businesses which the governer has decided make the “covid cut,” is, indeed, an assault on my freedom.

For someone to not find the latter galling is... pretty galling.

By not willing to accept the smallest of temporary measures, we risk even worse assault on our freedoms, and that’s how the mindset can backfire. Say a good portion of the population doesn’t wear masks and actually worsens the overall COVID situation. You know the types that just dgaf and are probably spreading COVID around right now. That can actually lead to real destructive draconian measures down the road. Is that a risk we are willing to take? People who know my post history will know I definitely support our freedoms, but I have gotten wiser over the years and I take a lot more strategic approach to things in life, which is what I meant when I recognized that this may not be the right battle to choose where we die in this fight. Mask wearing is seen as a best practice that and has shown to be effective in other countries who have had a lot more success against COVID. I think we are arguing for the same side here but it is a question of strategy, and the people here in the US is failing pretty hard at that right now in my opinion.

[FultzNationRISE]

By not willing to accept the smallest of temporary measures, we risk even worse assault on our freedoms, and that’s how the mindset can backfire. Say a good portion of the population doesn’t wear masks and actually worsens the overall COVID situation. You know the types that just dgaf and are probably spreading COVID around right now. That can actually lead to real destructive draconian measures down the road. Is that a risk we are willing to take? People who know my post history will know I definitely support our freedoms, but I have gotten wiser over the years and I take a lot more strategic approach to things in life, which is what I meant when I recognized that this may not be the right battle to choose where we die in this fight. Mask wearing is seen as a best practice that and has shown to be effective in other countries who have had a lot more success against COVID. I think we are arguing for the same side here but it is a question of strategy, and the people here in the US is failing pretty hard at that right now in my opinion.


Then THOSE will be the people who end up catching the dreaded covid, and if it’s such a hardcore disease, then THOSE people will all get wiped out and the people who took precaution will remain. Hooray!

No?

So again, how is this different from any other civil liberty? Guns, cars, booze, cigs, lotto tickets, pornography, yadda yadda yadda.

Indefinitely enacted GOVERNMENT MANDATED LOCKDOWNS AND FACE COVERINGS?

Over a flu virus?

Are you serious?

My goodness...


I would argue this IS the hill to fight on if youre ever gonna fight.

If youre not a fighter, then so be it.

But this is definitely the hill.

Or shall we say...

The slippery slope.

[Im Still Ballin]

So again, how is this different from any other civil liberty? Guns, cars, booze, cigs, lotto tickets, pornography, yadda yadda yadda.



It's involuntary -- you don't choose to get the coronavirus or not.

I think you're being intentionally facetious.

The spread of the virus can, and will start affecting children, the elderly, immunocompromised individuals...


This isn't like alcohol or drugs.

[FultzNationRISE]

It's involuntary -- you don't choose to get the coronavirus or not.

I think you're being intentionally facetious.

The spread of the virus can, and will start affecting children, the elderly, immunocompromised individuals...


This isn't like alcohol or drugs.


Has every person killed by an automobile been at fault?

Every person killed by a gun?

Every wife beaten by a drunk husband?

Every child neglected by a drug addicted parent?

If we’re stripping freedoms to theoretically protect people, then let’s go ahead and strip em all.

Also, it’s not the governments job to decide how much I care about old people. We dont elect people to play Morality Police. Or at least, I dont. Most of you probably do. Anyone has a right to live their life and run a business. If someone else is afraid, THEY can take precaution.

And the virus has been shown NOT to affect children and most healthy adults. So youre using a strawman.


These viruses pop up and get sensationalised for a month or two every few years. Bird flu, swine flu, west nile, sars, blah blah blah.This one happens to be getting exponentially manipulated, likely because it’s an election year with more at stake for deep state interests than ever before.


And the sheep all just take the bait.



Baaaaaaaah.

[iamgine]

It’s truly astonishing how many people are flat out okay with the gov ordering them to stay in their homes for months on end over a gloried flu virus that mostly kills 80 year old people.

And YES, #80YrOldLivesMatterLess

I mean cigs and alcohol and obesity kill tons of people. Theyre still permissible at peoples discretion bc we have social freedom.

But if you dont actually care about freedom, and the corona hysteria proves many of you dont... why arent you clamoring for the prohibition of every unhealthy vice? Why not have government mandated weight limits? Bc otherwise some people will die.

Why not return to alcohol probibition? Otherwise some people die.

Why not return to horse and buggy rides instead of automobiles zooming around the interstate? 35k people die in auto accidents each year, most of whom are much younger than 80.




This kind of thing proves the average person doesnt even think. Just... isnt capable of really thinking. It’s a total contradiction between policy and values, and most will just go along with it if they see other people going along with it. Lets face it, most of you are simple minded idiots who only do what the group does. You have no cerebral depth.

“Stay in your homes bc govt says corona will take lives, but then everyone go out and smoke and eat filth and then get liquored up and drive around!!!!”


Makes no sense.

Honestly you people are animals.

Cigs alcohol etc are personal decisions.

Covid19 is a virus epidemic. Yes it's be politicized in many areas but in a vacuum a stay home order during an epidemic is quite normal.

[falc39]

Then THOSE will be the people who end up catching the dreaded covid, and if it’s such a hardcore disease, then THOSE people will all get wiped out and the people who took precaution will remain. Hooray!

No?

So again, how is this different from any other civil liberty? Guns, cars, booze, cigs, lotto tickets, pornography, yadda yadda yadda.

Indefinitely enacted GOVERNMENT MANDATED LOCKDOWNS AND FACE COVERINGS?

Over a flu virus?

Are you serious?

My goodness...


I would argue this IS the hill to fight on if youre ever gonna fight.

If youre not a fighter, then so be it.

But this is definitely the hill.

Or shall we say...

The slippery slope.

No one said this was going to be indefinite. It would be dumb to have face masks when COVID is no longer around or if there is a vaccine.

It’s different and more complicated because you can infect people without even knowing it. You can shoot people or kill someone in a DUI accident and there will definitely be consequences if you are caught. How does one get repaid for damages if you go around spreading the virus and it ends up killing someone a couple infections down? You mentioned you aren’t on any of the extreme sides in a previous post, then what’s your solution? Everyone just freely do what they want? That doesn’t sound much different than how it was before COVID, which obviously didn’t work out so well.

A big portion of life comes down to choosing the right battles. Choosing the wrong ones will set you back. The indirect path is sometimes the best way to get the best result. I don’t really expect most people to understand this.

[FultzNationRISE]

No one said this was going to be indefinite. It would be dumb to have face masks when COVID is no longer around or if there is a vaccine.

It’s different and more complicated because you can infect people without even knowing it. You can shoot people or kill someone in a DUI accident and there will definitely be consequences if you are caught. How does one get repaid for damages if you go around spreading the virus and it ends up killing someone a couple infections down? You mentioned you aren’t on any of the extreme sides in a previous post, then what’s your solution? Everyone just freely do what they want? That doesn’t sound much different than how it was before COVID, which obviously didn’t work out so well.

A big portion of life comes down to choosing the right battles. Choosing the wrong ones will set you back. The indirect path is sometimes the best way to get the best result. I don’t really expect most people to understand this.


So if this thing isnt around to stay and there wont be a new one coming down the pipe as soon as it’s gone, why not just encourage those who feel vulnerable to mask up or social distance or do whatever?

We may not know when we’re spreading it, but we know who is vulnerable. So let’s encourage THOSE people to take precaution.

And just like with anything, let’s accept not everyone is gonna live to be 95. Sometimes the things that are a part of life end up killing some people. Thats life.

You think that’s an EXTREME attitude??

[FultzNationRISE]

Cigs alcohol etc are personal decisions.

Covid19 is a virus epidemic. Yes it's be politicized in many areas but in a vacuum a stay home order during an epidemic is quite normal.


I can link you to some stories of innocent people attacked and killed by drunken homeless people. Even more whove been killed by drunk drivers.

I dont believe that means we should return to prohibition. There are more sensible solutions available.

[imdaman99]

I would be with it but people have become so indoctrinated to think they need these things to get by or enjoy life that it would cause depression and suicide rates would increase. I don't drink or smoke (yeah I know, I must be fun at parties) so it wouldn't affect me at all if these things were somehow outlawed. People are addicted to these things, it's become a daily routine to drink when they get home from work, or smoke every 30 mins at work because of stress. What else could do they do to forget, or loosen themselves up, or escape reality? Drugs?

[falc39]

So if this thing isnt around to stay and there wont be a new one coming down the pipe as soon as it’s gone, why not just encourage those who feel vulnerable to mask up or social distance or do whatever?

We may not know when we’re spreading it, but we know who is vulnerable. So let’s encourage THOSE people to take precaution.

And just like with anything, let’s accept not everyone is gonna live to be 95. Sometimes the things that are a part of life end up killing some people. Thats life.

You think that’s an EXTREME attitude??

Yes, based on my first post, doing nothing in my opinion isn’t feasible or realistic. You really think “you go out and have contact at your own risk, not everyone is going to live until they are 95 anyway” is a solution?

[FultzNationRISE]

I would be with it but people have become so indoctrinated to think they need these things to get by or enjoy life that it would cause depression and suicide rates would increase. I don't drink or smoke (yeah I know, I must be fun at parties) so it wouldn't affect me at all if these things were somehow outlawed. People are addicted to these things, it's become a daily routine to drink when they get home from work, or smoke every 30 mins at work because of stress. What else could do they do to forget, or loosen themselves up, or escape reality? Drugs?


No doubt there are things that would probably elevate general quality of life if prohibited. If we made people weigh in once a year and sanction them if they got too heavy, most of them would probably end up being glad for such programs in five years’ time.

The issue is always... whom do we give the permission to control liberty? Random politicians? As everyone knows, absolute power corrupts absolutely.

“Democracy?” But what if 51% of people vote to allow slavery?

We have a Constitutional so that we know there are always principles that cant (in theory) be corrupted. No slavery, no censorship, no double jeopardy and so on.

I agree with everyone who has said life is complicated, and if we ever think theres a solution that works “all the time“ we’re being ignorant. There are always exceptions.

There are also people who are always ready to exploit exceptions and loopholes, which is why we must be so careful with them.


So what Im saying is, government lockdowns over covid-19...

Im pretty shocked how many people are okay with that exception. That’s all.

[FultzNationRISE]

Yes, based on my first post, doing nothing in my opinion isn’t feasible or realistic. You really think “you go out and have contact at your own risk, not everyone is going to live until they are 95 anyway” is a solution?


Yes.

Covid has a TINY mortality rate for people under 70.

I promise you when I’m 70 I wont be crying about the realities of life. I wont be demanding all sorts of social inconvenience bc Im old. But that’s me.

Yes, I think something like Covid is just a part of life and life should move on - with precaution - rather than lock down.

[n00bie]

If you truly cared about freedom you'd wear a mask to avoid lockdowns.

[FultzNationRISE]

If you truly cared about freedom you'd wear a mask to avoid lockdowns.

I might care if your grandma dies. I might not care.

The point is Im not obligated.

Sorry if that makes you uncomfortable.

You might as well tell me I have to view life and death the way some old book tells me to.

Take the Thought Policing elsewhere.

[Norcaliblunt]

Where I’m getting pissed is everyone trying to douse me with this sanitizer crap. It’s assault in my opinion. If society wants to be neurotic about these so-called pathogens then I can be just a crazy about being exposed to industrial chemicals. Two can play this game.

[Cleverness]

People dying with COVID-19 are also dying because of other illnesses.

When an 87 year old man with CHF, HTN, and DM dies with COVID they didn't just die of COVID.

That 87 year old man died from at least 5 things: compromised immune system (old) + CHF + HTN + COVID + DM = death

This is much different than an innocent 3 year old child who gets shot dead in the streets of Chicago (ie the child wasn't already dying of other illnesses)

-----------

Masks

Most people are already wearing masks. Making it law only creates more division and in the USA there is not a good enough reason to force people to wear masks. The policy is BAD for society.

Encourage the use of them is fine

Businesses requiring them for employees who work closely with elderly (eg nursing homes, LTC facilities) = good

Forced use of mask (when most already wearing them) for a virus less deadly than the flu in majority of population = terrible for society overall

[highwhey]

People dying with COVID-19 are also dying because of other illnesses.

When an 87 year old man with CHF, HTN, and DM dies with COVID they didn't just die of COVID.

That 87 year old man died from at least 5 things: compromised immune system (old) + CHF + HTN + COVID + DM = death

This is much different than an innocent 3 year old child who gets shot dead in the streets of Chicago (ie the child wasn't already dying of other illnesses)

-----------

Masks

Most people are already wearing masks. Making it law only creates more division and in the USA there is not a good enough reason to force people to wear masks. The policy is BAD for society.

Encourage the use of them is fine

Businesses requiring them for employees who work closely with elderly (eg nursing homes, LTC facilities) = good

Forced use of mask (when most already wearing them) for a virus less deadly than the flu in majority of population = terrible for society overall

can you further expand on this?

[Cleverness]

can you further expand on this?

:lol

[Norcaliblunt]

Have we ever lived in a more sanitized time? There’s more antibiotics, antibacterial soap and sanitizer than ever before. People are more aware of cleanliness than in any time throughout human history.

But we are drowning in man made pollution of all kinds. Lead in the water, smog in the air, plastic everywhere.

People need to stop and think who the real culprit is here.

[falc39]

Masks

Most people are already wearing masks. Making it law only creates more division and in the USA there is not a good enough reason to force people to wear masks. The policy is BAD for society.

Encourage the use of them is fine

Businesses requiring them for employees who work closely with elderly (eg nursing homes, LTC facilities) = good

Forced use of mask (when most already wearing them) for a virus less deadly than the flu in majority of population = terrible for society overall

Can you define "most people", I mean that could mean anything. :confusedshrug:

Clearly, it must be working so well considering Florida, Texas, and California have halted and in some cases started to reverse their plans to reopen.

EU also planning to block US travelers from entering.

These things are also terrible for society.

I guess our plan is to win the battle but lose the war.

[Cleverness]

Can you define "most people", I mean that could mean anything. :confusedshrug:

Clearly, it must be working so well considering Florida, Texas, and California have halted and in some cases started to reverse their plans to reopen.

EU also planning to block US travelers from entering.

These things are also terrible for society.

I guess our plan is to win the battle but lose the war.

But yeah, 6 months into the "pandemic" let's force the remaining people (who really don't want to wear one) to wear masks and increase our division between us.

https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2020/05/22/USAT/c69040ee-b542-4a8c-b7ad-2571b5536917-052220-Mask-Poll2.jpg

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/05/21/coronavirus-wearing-mask-public-common-nationscape-survey-finds/5215365002/


Our response has worked VERY well in Florida and Texas. They did the opposite of Cuomo. Cuomo forced nursing homes to take COVID-19 patients and now the media is glorifying him as if he should be lecturing Abbott and DeSantis. Look at the actual data and tell me the media hysteria is justified.

Texas available hospital beds on March 8th before COVID = 8,000

Texas available hospital beds June 23rd w/ COVID hysteria = 14,260

Find Florida. Find Texas.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EbknIBgVAAUNlKH?format=jpg&name=medium

The politicians have initiated more lockdowns in response to the media hysteria, not the actual data.

Lockdown & media portrays bad things happen = "see, told you it was bad"

Lockdown & nothing happens = "see, it's because we did a lockdown. saved your ass"

win/win for politicians

European Union (LOL) same thing. I think part of it is to spite Trump for his dumbass European travel ban in March.

GOAL: Less than 10.3 million COVID hospitalizations over 12 months. Actual data: ~0.3 million hospitalizations (inflated) and the worst is behind us.


The battle with COVID-19 was won because it's only ~5% as deadly as we were originally told.

Because of gov't and media hysteria: we will lose on poverty, deaths due to despair and job loss, backlogs of surgeries, thousands of cancer diagnoses missed, 40 million unemployed, millions of small businesses closed forever, the additional 100 million people around the world who will starve because of the senseless lockdowns, increased depression, etc


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?477454-Official-coronavirus-news-discussion-thread&p=14036662&viewfull=1#post14036662
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?477454-Official-coronavirus-news-discussion-thread&p=14036664&viewfull=1#post14036664

Hospitalizations in FL:

April 24th prediction: 465,000 hospitalizations
April 24th actual data: 2,000 hospitalizations

"JUST WAIT TWO WEEKS" they said

It was overstated by a factor of 200x and the media hysteria has been kept at an 11.

[falc39]

But yeah, 6 months into the "pandemic" let's force the remaining people (who really don't want to wear one) to wear masks and increase our division between us.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/05/21/coronavirus-wearing-mask-public-common-nationscape-survey-finds/5215365002/


Some details that should be mentioned: The poll you cited isn't clear on how frequent people were wearing masks. If I went out 10 times during the week and wore a mask 2 times, Could I technically answer that I wore a mask during the week they did the poll? Even then, the response was a bit late. Other polls show Americans did not wear masks in the earlier crucial stages. Here's one that shows throughout April, it was less than half the population (but at least got higher towards the end of the month) https://www.silive.com/coronavirus/2020/05/in-which-us-states-are-people-most-likely-to-wear-a-face-mask.html.

In addition, looking into some down at the ground counts show something very different. For example, why do you think these people are seeing such a huge discrepancy from the polls above? https://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/news/coronavirus/article243453451.html
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-06-17/column-wonder-why-so-many-people-arent-wearing-masks-heres-how-they-explain-it
https://www.richmond.com/special-report/coronavirus/half-of-people-around-richmond-arent-wearing-masks-to-go-to-the-store-we-counted/article_7cd4a541-986b-5a1e-b4e9-b0e7f99147d3.html

Ironically, the media over-hyping and scaring people is probably what helped get these "supposed" mask rates to where they are now. It certainly wasn't the federal government or Trump doing anything to suggest people to wear masks (until it was far too late).

[Axe]

If you truly cared about freedom you'd wear a mask to avoid lockdowns.
Low iq people don't actually wear masks in the midst of the pandemic, according to a certain expert.

[ThatCoolKid]

It's called minimizing risk. Cars have seatbelts and safety features. There are medications and alternatives to help people quit smoking (younger generations smoke at much lower rates than older generations thanks to enourmous public health campaigns fighting the tobacoo industry, although Juul is pushing back). Obesity is a medical issue that is another public health concern that is widely campaigned about. It is a problem that is worsened by corporations making tons of shitty junk food designed to addict people and are cheap. And just because there is a "lockdown" you can still exercise. I went running outside almost everyday before my work started back up. Pushups, planks etc etc. You don't need to go to a gym to be healthy.

In coronavirus the lockdowns are part of minimizing risk - analogous to seatbelts and safety requirements for cars, or no smoking policies in public places, or campaigns in schools to make kids more active. And besides the lockdowns are starting to lift anyway. It's all about how to return people to their lives in a safe and responsible way. No contradiction at all. We have to minimize risk and be smart.

[iamgine]

I can link you to some stories of innocent people attacked and killed by drunken homeless people. Even more whove been killed by drunk drivers.

I dont believe that means we should return to prohibition. There are more sensible solutions available.

And we have the law for drunk driving and assault.

That is not the same as a global pandemic. A stay home order is quite normal protocol. If you have a better solution, by all means but lets not compare apples to oranges.

[Jasper]

bottom line our society is still an infant in the big picture.
I think eventually smoking will disappear.
I think there will be more vaccines do to the population exploding
I think boz will be a celebration of sorts and night a daily ritual

[Jasper]

It's called minimizing risk. Cars have seatbelts and safety features. There are medications and alternatives to help people quit smoking (younger generations smoke at much lower rates than older generations thanks to enourmous public health campaigns fighting the tobacoo industry, although Juul is pushing back). Obesity is a medical issue that is another public health concern that is widely campaigned about. It is a problem that is worsened by corporations making tons of shitty junk food designed to addict people and are cheap. And just because there is a "lockdown" you can still exercise. I went running outside almost everyday before my work started back up. Pushups, planks etc etc. You don't need to go to a gym to be healthy.

In coronavirus the lockdowns are part of minimizing risk - analogous to seatbelts and safety requirements for cars, or no smoking policies in public places, or campaigns in schools to make kids more active. And besides the lockdowns are starting to lift anyway. It's all about how to return people to their lives in a safe and responsible way. No contradiction at all. We have to minimize risk and be smart.

well said

[Axe]

And we have the law for drunk driving and assault.

That is not the same as a global pandemic. A stay home order is quite normal protocol. If you have a better solution, by all means but lets not compare apples to oranges.
Punishment should be grueling for those who are hard-headed and abusive.

[SATAN]

It’s truly astonishing how many people are flat out okay with the gov ordering them to stay in their homes for months on end over a gloried flu virus that mostly kills 80 year old people.

And YES, #80YrOldLivesMatterLess

I mean cigs and alcohol and obesity kill tons of people. Theyre still permissible at peoples discretion bc we have social freedom.

But if you dont actually care about freedom, and the corona hysteria proves many of you dont... why arent you clamoring for the prohibition of every unhealthy vice? Why not have government mandated weight limits? Bc otherwise some people will die.

Why not return to alcohol probibition? Otherwise some people die.

Why not return to horse and buggy rides instead of automobiles zooming around the interstate? 35k people die in auto accidents each year, most of whom are much younger than 80.




This kind of thing proves the average person doesnt even think. Just... isnt capable of really thinking. It’s a total contradiction between policy and values, and most will just go along with it if they see other people going along with it. Lets face it, most of you are simple minded idiots who only do what the group does. You have no cerebral depth.

“Stay in your homes bc govt says corona will take lives, but then everyone go out and smoke and eat filth and then get liquored up and drive around!!!!”


Makes no sense.

Honestly you people are animals.

You're a ****ing retard. Kill yourself.

[Cleverness]

Some details that should be mentioned: The poll you cited isn't clear on how frequent people were wearing masks. If I went out 10 times during the week and wore a mask 2 times, Could I technically answer that I wore a mask during the week they did the poll? Even then, the response was a bit late. Other polls show Americans did not wear masks in the earlier crucial stages. Here's one that shows throughout April, it was less than half the population (but at least got higher towards the end of the month) https://www.silive.com/coronavirus/2020/05/in-which-us-states-are-people-most-likely-to-wear-a-face-mask.html.

In addition, looking into some down at the ground counts show something very different. For example, why do you think these people are seeing such a huge discrepancy from the polls above? https://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/news/coronavirus/article243453451.html
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-06-17/column-wonder-why-so-many-people-arent-wearing-masks-heres-how-they-explain-it
https://www.richmond.com/special-report/coronavirus/half-of-people-around-richmond-arent-wearing-masks-to-go-to-the-store-we-counted/article_7cd4a541-986b-5a1e-b4e9-b0e7f99147d3.html

Ironically, the media over-hyping and scaring people is probably what helped get these "supposed" mask rates to where they are now. It certainly wasn't the federal government or Trump doing anything to suggest people to wear masks (until it was far too late).

You completely ignored the main points of my post to focus on minutiae.

[Hawker]

It's called minimizing risk. Cars have seatbelts and safety features. There are medications and alternatives to help people quit smoking (younger generations smoke at much lower rates than older generations thanks to enourmous public health campaigns fighting the tobacoo industry, although Juul is pushing back). Obesity is a medical issue that is another public health concern that is widely campaigned about. It is a problem that is worsened by corporations making tons of shitty junk food designed to addict people and are cheap. And just because there is a "lockdown" you can still exercise. I went running outside almost everyday before my work started back up. Pushups, planks etc etc. You don't need to go to a gym to be healthy.

In coronavirus the lockdowns are part of minimizing risk - analogous to seatbelts and safety requirements for cars, or no smoking policies in public places, or campaigns in schools to make kids more active. And besides the lockdowns are starting to lift anyway. It's all about how to return people to their lives in a safe and responsible way. No contradiction at all. We have to minimize risk and be smart.

I love how you blame corporations for "worsening" obesity and then in the next statement that the lockdown doesn't prevent you from exercise.

In the one hand you're blaming someone else and saying it's out of an individuals hands and in the other it's on the individual to exercise. Corporations aren't forcing you to eat shitty foods. That's a choice you make and can stop anything you want.

Don't forget the shitty food pyramid propagandra from the USDA.

I'd say the masks, staying at home and social distancing are about minimizing risk whereas the lockdown is too much on the extreme. It's like banning junk food or banning alcohol.

On a weirder note, lockdown made me drink a lot less afterwards, exercise more and delete my dating apps (they are toxic and more organic, personable experiences should be valued more).

[Cleverness]

I love how you blame corporations for obesity and then in the next statement that the lockdown doesn't prevent you from exercise.

In the one hand you're blaming someone else and saying it's out of an individuals hands and in the other it's on the individual to exercise. Corporations aren't forcing you to eat shitty foods. That's a choice you make and can stop anything you want.

Don't forget the shitty food pyramid propagandra from the USDA.

I'd say the masks, staying at home and social distancing are about minimizing risk whereas the lockdown is too much on the extreme. It's like banning junk food or banning alcohol.

Exactly.

We don't do any of these things for the flu, which is FAR more deadly to children.

Weigh pros and cons. It's called being an adult.

Note: when a child dies of the flu, they died of the flu. When an 85 year old man dies with COVID, they died because several factors: CVD + immunocompromised + HTN + CHF + COVID = death, yet 100% of these deaths count as COVID deaths. The numbers are misleading.

[SATAN]

:facepalm

[Gabe Ball]

Kind of hard to cement the topic with so much information going on. But to do something like that would only agitate people and make things worse, even if it's logically a healthy option, albeit extreme.

[Cleverness]

It's called minimizing risk. Cars have seatbelts and safety features. There are medications and alternatives to help people quit smoking (younger generations smoke at much lower rates than older generations thanks to enourmous public health campaigns fighting the tobacoo industry, although Juul is pushing back). Obesity is a medical issue that is another public health concern that is widely campaigned about. It is a problem that is worsened by corporations making tons of shitty junk food designed to addict people and are cheap. And just because there is a "lockdown" you can still exercise. I went running outside almost everyday before my work started back up. Pushups, planks etc etc. You don't need to go to a gym to be healthy.

In coronavirus the lockdowns are part of minimizing risk - analogous to seatbelts and safety requirements for cars, or no smoking policies in public places, or campaigns in schools to make kids more active. And besides the lockdowns are starting to lift anyway. It's all about how to return people to their lives in a safe and responsible way. No contradiction at all. We have to minimize risk and be smart.

Those comparisons are terrible. Seatbelts and safety features don't cost the country TRILLIONS of dollars, tens of millions unemployed, etc.

Anyway, can you tell me the goal of our COVID lockdowns? Please be specific as possible.

I've known what the goal is this entire time, but I'm curious to see your answer.

[Nanners]

Have we ever lived in a more sanitized time? There’s more antibiotics, antibacterial soap and sanitizer than ever before. People are more aware of cleanliness than in any time throughout human history.

But we are drowning in man made pollution of all kinds. Lead in the water, smog in the air, plastic everywhere.

People need to stop and think who the real culprit is here.

:applause:

[kurple]

It’s truly astonishing how many people are flat out okay with the gov ordering them to stay in their homes for months on end over a gloried flu virus that mostly kills 80 year old people.

And YES, #80YrOldLivesMatterLess

I mean cigs and alcohol and obesity kill tons of people. Theyre still permissible at peoples discretion bc we have social freedom.

But if you dont actually care about freedom, and the corona hysteria proves many of you dont... why arent you clamoring for the prohibition of every unhealthy vice? Why not have government mandated weight limits? Bc otherwise some people will die.

Why not return to alcohol probibition? Otherwise some people die.

Why not return to horse and buggy rides instead of automobiles zooming around the interstate? 35k people die in auto accidents each year, most of whom are much younger than 80.




This kind of thing proves the average person doesnt even think. Just... isnt capable of really thinking. It’s a total contradiction between policy and values, and most will just go along with it if they see other people going along with it. Lets face it, most of you are simple minded idiots who only do what the group does. You have no cerebral depth.

“Stay in your homes bc govt says corona will take lives, but then everyone go out and smoke and eat filth and then get liquored up and drive around!!!!”


Makes no sense.

Honestly you people are animals.

Do you think the Gov wants to ruin the economy? Like literally ruin it?

what's your conspiracy? Or do you just think so highly of yourself that you simply believe you see something no one else sees?

[Nanners]

Some details that should be mentioned: The poll you cited isn't clear on how frequent people were wearing masks. If I went out 10 times during the week and wore a mask 2 times, Could I technically answer that I wore a mask during the week they did the poll? Even then, the response was a bit late. Other polls show Americans did not wear masks in the earlier crucial stages. Here's one that shows throughout April, it was less than half the population (but at least got higher towards the end of the month) https://www.silive.com/coronavirus/2020/05/in-which-us-states-are-people-most-likely-to-wear-a-face-mask.html.

In addition, looking into some down at the ground counts show something very different. For example, why do you think these people are seeing such a huge discrepancy from the polls above? https://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/news/coronavirus/article243453451.html
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-06-17/column-wonder-why-so-many-people-arent-wearing-masks-heres-how-they-explain-it
https://www.richmond.com/special-report/coronavirus/half-of-people-around-richmond-arent-wearing-masks-to-go-to-the-store-we-counted/article_7cd4a541-986b-5a1e-b4e9-b0e7f99147d3.html

Ironically, the media over-hyping and scaring people is probably what helped get these "supposed" mask rates to where they are now. It certainly wasn't the federal government or Trump doing anything to suggest people to wear masks (until it was far too late).

I am a little surprised by your position on this... typically you are one of the most skeptical posters on mainstream narratives.

[Cleverness]

I am a little surprised by your position on this... typically you are one of the most skeptical posters on mainstream narratives.

I think he and bladefd just like to disagree with me.

Instead of bickering about the remaining few who really don't want to wear a mask, we should all be shaming the **** out of the politicians/health officials/CDC for waiting 4 months into the pandemic to require us to wear masks as if somehow they work really well now but didn't for the past 4 months when the pandemic was killing far more people than it is now

great rant about masks right here

https://twitter.com/legendaryenergy/status/1277146474250289158

[Nanners]

I think he and bladefd just like to disagree with me.

Instead of bickering about the remaining few who really don't want to wear a mask, we should all be shaming the **** out of the politicians/health officials/CDC for waiting 4 months into the pandemic to require us to wear masks as if somehow they work really well now but didn't for the past 4 months when the pandemic was killing far more people than it is now

great rant about masks right here

https://twitter.com/legendaryenergy/status/1277146474250289158

That is a phenomenal rant, and he is spot on about everything.

FFS, Fauci himself said that people dont need to wear masks... then a couple months later he flip-flopped and tried to justify his earlier statement by saying that he just wanted to save masks for health workers. If that was actually true, then why the hell didnt he just say something like "we need to save paper masks for health workers, but regular people should be wearing cloth masks"?

Now Fauci is saying that people who dont wear masks are the reason why cases are rising, and if thats true (its not), then wouldnt Fauci be one of the main reasons why the virus spread in the first place? Anyone who believes that masks are the deciding factor in preventing the spread of the virus must also concede that Fauci is responsible for tens of thousands of deaths.

[Shooter]

I think he and bladefd just like to disagree with me.

Instead of bickering about the remaining few who really don't want to wear a mask, we should all be shaming the **** out of the politicians/health officials/CDC for waiting 4 months into the pandemic to require us to wear masks as if somehow they work really well now but didn't for the past 4 months when the pandemic was killing far more people than it is now

great rant about masks right here

https://twitter.com/legendaryenergy/status/1277146474250289158

Beautiful rant

[SATAN]

Goal posts being moved again. :facepalm

[hiphopanonymous]

Because lung cancer, liver disease and diabetes or coronary artery disease aren't contagious.

Endangering yourself with diseases that aren't contagious is something society has experimented with and changed its views on many times as to where to draw the line on these issues (sin taxes, prohibition, etc).

But it's actually an entirely different topic than walking around with a disease that spreads to other people which may not harm or kill you but may harm or kill them and visa versa.

You always try to act so smart. You should have known this one before you even made the thread.

[warriorfan]

Because lung cancer, liver disease and diabetes or coronary artery disease aren't contagious.

Endangering yourself with diseases that aren't contagious is something society has experimented with and changed its views on many times as to where to draw the line on these issues (sin taxes, prohibition, etc).

But it's actually an entirely different topic than walking around with a disease that spreads to other people which may not harm or kill you but may harm or kill them and visa versa.

You always try to act so smart. You should have known this one before you even made the thread.

Drunk drivers kill a lot of innocent people per year and endanger countless others. Ban alcohol.

Lung cancer isn’t contagious yet second hand smoke causes it. Ban smoking.

Fat people are in a way contagious. The more that fatasses become prevalent, the less ostracized they feel, the more they become the new norm. Spreading their fatness throughout our society.

[~primetime~]

Drunk drivers kill a lot of innocent people per year and endanger countless others. Ban alcohol.

Lung cancer isn’t contagious yet second hand smoke causes it. Ban smoking.

drunk driving and smoking indoors has been banned...

[warriorfan]

drunk driving and smoking indoors has been banned...

It’s not working well enough. More drastic measures need to be taken.

[~primetime~]

It’s not working well enough. More drastic measures need to be taken.

I don't think I disagree actually

[warriorfan]

I don't think I disagree actually

Great. Now smoking and drinking is banned we can go after the real killers here. Heart disease and obesity. All meat is now going to be banned. Plus it’s way better for the environment as well.

No Meat
No Smoking
No Alcohol

No privately owned cars will be next on the list. Dangerous and wasteful. No need. Public transport for all.

[Norcaliblunt]

If it’s all the governments fault then why didn’t all the corporations and businesses just protest the shutdowns and mask wearing? Big retailers, restaurants, sports leagues etc etc could have refused to shut down not require masks on their private property, but they all went right along with it like sheep too. They legitimatized it by not putting up a fight at all. So who’s really who’s to blame?

[n00bie]

That is a phenomenal rant, and he is spot on about everything.

FFS, Fauci himself said that people dont need to wear masks... then a couple months later he flip-flopped and tried to justify his earlier statement by saying that he just wanted to save masks for health workers. If that was actually true, then why the hell didnt he just say something like "we need to save paper masks for health workers, but regular people should be wearing cloth masks"?

Now Fauci is saying that people who dont wear masks are the reason why cases are rising, and if thats true (its not), then wouldnt Fauci be one of the main reasons why the virus spread in the first place? Anyone who believes that masks are the deciding factor in preventing the spread of the virus must also concede that Fauci is responsible for tens of thousands of deaths.

Same thing happened here in Canada. All these "medical professionals" just blindly listened to WHO. Just like how WHO told us all to not close their borders. This whole pandemic spreading around the world could have all been prevented if everyone closed their borders to China in January, and we all wore a mask for 1-2 months. There would literally have been 0 cases outside of China.

In Canada, we had to literally beg Trudeau to close the damn borders. He only closed it AFTER his wife got infected from a trip to the UK.

We've been calling on our useless Health Minister to ask people to wear a mask. From January to March she's been going on TV telling us all mask were useless. She deserves to be put in jail for the hundreds of lives that were lost because of her horrible recommendations.

Now Toronto and other regions are making face masks mandatory indoors.

All this shlt could have been prevented in January. Most of us knew how important closing borders / wearing a face mask were.. but government officials didn't act.

[Rocket]

None of this is about caring about lives. It is about keeping this up long enough to push for mail-in ballots and to keep Biden locked safely in his basement so he does not have to get on a stage to debate as well as keeping his public speaking to a bare minimum so he an keep his large foot out of his mouth.

[kabar]

Because lung cancer, liver disease and diabetes or coronary artery disease aren't contagious.

Endangering yourself with diseases that aren't contagious is something society has experimented with and changed its views on many times as to where to draw the line on these issues (sin taxes, prohibition, etc).

But it's actually an entirely different topic than walking around with a disease that spreads to other people which may not harm or kill you but may harm or kill them and visa versa.

You always try to act so smart. You should have known this one before you even made the thread.
He's a ****ing idiot. He can't hold two positions in his head so he makes up some strawman "leftists believe" then spends his life typing up mindnumbingly long posts analyzing why they believe it.

[n00bie]

None of this is about caring about lives. It is about keeping this up long enough to push for mail-in ballots and to keep Biden locked safely in his basement so he does not have to get on a stage to debate as well as keeping his public speaking to a bare minimum so he an keep his large foot out of his mouth.

So you're saying Trump reopened the country on purpose to spread the virus?

Or Trump told everyone not to wear a mask so that the virus will spread faster? Sorry I dont understand your logic.

[Norcaliblunt]

OP if you are purchasing and using government mandated pasteurized products then you are supporting the system that is shutting us down and that makes you a hypocrite.

[hiphopanonymous]

Drunk drivers kill a lot of innocent people per year and endanger countless others. Ban alcohol.

Lung cancer isn’t contagious yet second hand smoke causes it. Ban smoking.

Fat people are in a way contagious. The more that fatasses become prevalent, the less ostracized they feel, the more they become the new norm. Spreading their fatness throughout our society.
Drunk driving is already illegal in every single State. Smoking in every type of public place is already illegal in most States and is probably on the way in the few holding out - and most of the few holding out have some restrictions of some sort.

Society is more lenient on activities that endanger strictly yourself with reckless behavior. But (thankfully), if your reckless behavior jeopardizes the well being or lives of others that are not choosing to be as reckless as you, it's likely already been made illegal or a good candidate to become that way.

This is a Sesame Street level topic that a 6 year old would understand. Think back to kindergarten. You KNEW in kindergarten it may be weird to randomly punch yourself but in most cases it was not gonna run you to the principals office. You KNEW it was not ok to randomly punch someone else. - now follow that logic to spreading illness or running someone over because you intoxicated yourself. We as society basically try to treat offenses to others the same way for the same reasons.

[highwhey]

Drunk driving is already illegal in every single State. Smoking in every type of public place is already illegal in most States and is probably on the way in the few holding out - and most of the few holding out have some restrictions of some sort.

Society is more lenient on activities that endanger strictly yourself with reckless behavior. But (thankfully), if your reckless behavior jeopardizes the well being or lives of others that are not choosing to be as reckless as you, it's likely already been made illegal or a good candidate to become that way.

This is a Sesame Street level topic that a 6 year old would understand. Think back to kindergarten. You KNEW in kindergarten it may be weird to randomly punch yourself but in most cases it was not gonna run you to the principals office. You KNEW it was not ok to randomly punch someone else. - now follow that logic to spreading illness or running someone over because you intoxicated yourself. We as society basically try to treat offenses to others the same way for the same reasons.
this is ISH. we have mentally ill individuals. OP has a legitimate mental illness.

[Cleverness]

Goal posts being moved again. :facepalm

Glad you've seen the light.

Goal posts haven't just been moved; they were REMOVED in APRIL when we abandoned our goal of not overwhelming hospitals to doing anything to save all lives from COVID (even when hardly of it was backed by science and data).


Because lung cancer, liver disease and diabetes or coronary artery disease aren't contagious.

Endangering yourself with diseases that aren't contagious is something society has experimented with and changed its views on many times as to where to draw the line on these issues (sin taxes, prohibition, etc).

But it's actually an entirely different topic than walking around with a disease that spreads to other people which may not harm or kill you but may harm or kill them and visa versa.

You always try to act so smart. You should have known this one before you even made the thread.

Our goal is to not overwhelm the hospitals, not to save as many lives as possible from COVID.

We knew the hospitals wouldn't be overwhelmed back in April. We should have been massively opening up in April while protecting our elderly in care homes (0.42% of the population) which account for >50% of the deaths.