Who had the best 1700 minute playoff stretch of all time?

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Kawhi Leonard 1707 total minute playoff stretch from 2016-2019: 28 PPG on 62.8% TS, 28.9PER, 11.4 BPM, 27% win share, 5.8 VORP, 123 offensive rating

LeBron James 1723 total minute playoff stretch from 2013-14: 27 PPG on 62.2% TS, 29.4 PER, 26% win share, 10.3 BPM, 5.4 VORP, 121 offensive rating

Michael Jordan 1703 total minute playoff stretch from 1992-1993: 35 PPG on 56.3% TS, 28.5 PER, 10.7 BPM, 5.4 VORP, 24% win share, 117 offensive rating

The black bold letters are who leads in categories. Who was the best?

[Shooter]

Kawhi Leonard 1707 total minute playoff stretch from 2016-2019: 28 PPG on 62.8% TS, 28.9PER, 11.4 BPM, 27% win share, 5.8 VORP, 123 offensive rating

LeBron James 1723 total minute playoff stretch from 2013-14: 27 PPG on 62.2% TS, 29.4 PER, 26% win share, 10.3 BPM, 5.4 VORP, 121 offensive rating

Michael Jordan 1703 total minute playoff stretch from 1992-1993: 35 PPG on 56.3% TS, 28.5 PER, 10.7 BPM, 5.4 VORP, 24% win share, 117 offensive rating

The black bold letters are who leads in categories. Who was the best?

Assists = Lebron
Rebounds = Lebron
Def Rtg = LeBron

REDO

http://deltacreditrestoration.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Re-Do-Bttn-300x266.png

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Assists = Lebron
Rebounds = Lebron
Def Rtg = LeBron

REDO

VORP is more important then any of those you named. Kawhi Leonard has .4 more VORP then Lebron despite 16 less minutes played. Kawhi also leads in 5 total categories.

[Shooter]

VORP is more important then any of those you named. Kawhi Leonard has .4 more VORP then Lebron despite 16 less minutes played. Kawhi also leads in 5 total categories.

Why are you not taking LeBron's 2012 and 2013 run?

http://deltacreditrestoration.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Re-Do-Bttn-300x266.png

[Real Men Wear Green]

I am 100% certain that I will never sit at a bar swapping rounds of covid and O'Douls discussing 1700 minute stretches of basketball with anyone.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Why are you not taking LeBron's 2012 and 2013 run?

http://deltacreditrestoration.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Re-Do-Bttn-300x266.png

I wanted them to all be at around 1700 minutes. LeBron 12/13 stretch goes to 1943 minutes

[Turbo Slayer]

Pretty obvious OP is cherrypicking stuff to make it seem like Kawhi is the best.

[MrFonzworth]

Weird that you use an arbitrary number like 1700 when 1650 minutes is usually the standard.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Pretty obvious OP is cherrypicking stuff to make it seem like Kawhi is the best.

Kawhi's prime is 1707 minutes in playoffs, so I compared it to other 1700 minute range playoff runs. Its not my fault kawhi is doing so well, go ask him why his stats are better.

[Shooter]

Pretty obvious OP is cherrypicking stuff to make it seem like Kawhi is the best.

Absolutely. OP is a nut job. He is including Kawhi's 1st round stats to LBJ and MJ's Finals stats. Bascially comparing numbers against weaker opponents. What a failure of a thread.

REDO

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Absolutely. OP is a nut job. He is including Kawhi's 1st round stats to LBJ and MJ's Finals stats. Bascially comparing numbers against weaker opponents. What a failure of a thread.

REDO

Kawhi eliminated Marc Gasol, Harden, Embiid, Butler, Giannis, Curry, Draymond Green. That's plenty of stars he baptized. Give me a better list of names that Jordan/LeBron beat?

[Roundball_Rock]

Everyone agrees he had an amazing run but all the other legends the hype train compares him to did it at a dominant level for more than 30 or so games. Let's see if Kawhi can sustain this throughout the rest of his prime/near prime.

[ArbitraryWater]

Bro wtf

[sdot_thadon]

I am 100% certain that I will never sit at a bar swapping rounds of covid and O'Douls discussing 1700 minute stretches of basketball with anyone.

damn thought i was the only one.:lol


Weird that you use an arbitrary number like 1700 when 1650 minutes is usually the standard.
this. I'd probably go with the even more standard 1234.

[Whoah10115]

I am 100% certain that I will never sit at a bar swapping rounds of covid and O'Douls discussing 1700 minute stretches of basketball with anyone.

Not even for Vorp?

[light]

1700 minute playoff stretches is not a thing.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

1700 minute playoff stretches is not a thing.

That's how much the GOAT has played in his prime, so its a thing now.

[Roundball_Rock]

That's how much the GOAT has played in his prime, so its a thing now.

That's the problem.

Prime MJ: 5,492 minutes (87'-96')
Prime LeBron: 8,383 minutes (06'-16')--over 10,000 if you count 17' and 18'
Prime KAJ: 4,142 minutes (70'-80')

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Why 1700 and not 1699? That's the real question :confusedshrug:

[HBK_Kliq_2]

That's the problem.

Prime MJ: 5,492 minutes (87'-96')
Prime LeBron: 8,383 minutes (06'-16')--over 10,000 if you count 17' and 18'
Prime KAJ: 4,142 minutes (70'-80')

The problem is Kawhi wasn't born later? Tell his parents about that.

[Roundball_Rock]

The problem is Kawhi wasn't born later? Tell his parents about that.

He is being compared to legends who stood the test of time and did it year after year for a decade or so. Let's see how his career unfolds and if he keeps this up.

[Shooter]

He is being compared to legends who stood the test of time and did it year after year for a decade or so. Let's see how his career unfolds and if he keeps this up.

I see Kareem at 42k pts. LeBron around 34k. Kawhi is at..9.6k :lol Poor fellas has a long ways to go, I wish him the best.

LeBron only has 4x as many points, that's all.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

He is being compared to legends who stood the test of time and did it year after year for a decade or so. Let's see how his career unfolds and if he keeps this up.

Ok I understand, only time will tell if he continues this pace as the new black Jesus.

Larry Bird seemed more like a defensive superstar at 23 and 24 years old as well, he had more defensive win shares then offensive win shares.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

I see Kareem at 42k pts. LeBron around 34k. Kawhi is at..9.6k :lol Poor fellas has a long ways to go, I wish him the best.

LeBron only has 4x as many points, that's all.

Yes Lebron came out of high school but he wasn't really an all time great playoff performer until 2009 when he was 24 years old? Same age as Kawhi's 2017 playoff run.

[Shooter]

Yes Lebron came out of high school but he wasn't really an all time great playoff performer until 2009 when he was 24 years old? Same age as Kawhi's 2017 playoff run.

Really? I can bet some money that LeBron's first playoff series of his career is better than any Kawhi series. Post for comparisons and we can see the proof.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Really? I can bet some money that LeBron's first playoff series of his career is better than any Kawhi series. Post for comparisons and we can see the proof.

2019 2nd round

35/10/4 on 63% TS and a 121 offensive rating. Also 41PPG in 3/4 wins.

In case you try getting cute by posting some 1st round shit. Kawhi also has the 2017 playoff series vs pretty damn good 7th ranked defense grizzles

31/6/4 on 71% TS and a 142 offensive rating

[MrFonzworth]

damn thought i was the only one.:lol


this. I'd probably go with the even more standard 1234.

1234 for a long time was standard because all the numbers are right next to each other on a keyboard. Since 2008 or so 1650 became the new meta and rightfully so. This new 1700 talk is asinine though.

[Shooter]

2019 2nd round

35/10/4 on 63% TS and a 121 offensive rating.

In case you try getting cute by posting some 1st round shit. Kawhi also has the 2017 playoff series vs pretty damn good 7th ranked defense grizzles

31/6/4 on 71% TS and a 142 offensive rating

Thanks for engaging in this discussion, I am glad to hear you took the bait. You started this off by claiming that LeBron:


Yes Lebron came out of high school but he wasn't really an all time great playoff performer until 2009 when he was 24 years old? Same age as Kawhi's 2017 playoff run.

Then I gave you push back and you searched high and low to find Kawhis' very best playoff series he ever had and mentioned them above. You cited his 2017 playoff series against the Grizzlies. Let's compare Kawhi's prime to LeBron's literal first ever playoff series to see if prime Kawhi is even better than 20 year old LeBron.

2017 Kawhi = 31-6-4 on on 55% fg, 48% 3p
2006 LeBron = 36-8-6 on 51% fg, 38% 3p

I would say that's nearly a wash, so maybe Kawhi was slighty less. And so we have concluded the following:

A Prime Kawhi in 2017 is nearly equally or slightly below a 2006 LeBron who was engaging in his first ever playoff series. Thank you for this information.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Thanks for engaging in this discussion, I am glad to hear you took the bait. You started this off by claiming that LeBron:



Then I gave you push back and you searched high and low to find Kawhis' very best playoff series he ever had and mentioned them above. You cited his 2017 playoff series against the Grizzlies. Let's compare Kawhi's prime to LeBron's literal first ever playoff series to see if prime Kawhi is even better than 20 year old LeBron.

2017 Kawhi = 31-6-4 on on 55% fg, 48% 3p
2006 LeBron = 36-8-6 on 51% fg, 38% 3p

I would say that's nearly a wash, so maybe Kawhi was slighty less. And so we have concluded the following:

A Prime Kawhi in 2017 is nearly equally or slightly below a 2006 LeBron who was engaging in his first ever playoff series. Thank you for this information.

That was wizards 22nd ranked defense. Kawhi was playing grizzles 7th ranked defense.

Another thing, kawhi is at 71% TS to LeBron's 60% how the hell is that equal? 11% gap and kawhi is facing a massively tougher defense.

[Shooter]

That was wizards 22nd ranked defense. Kawhi was playing grizzles 7th ranked defense.

Another thing, kawhi is at 71% TS to LeBron's 60% how the hell is that equal? 11% gap and kawhi is facing a massively tougher defense.


No one cares about TS. Use FG and 3pa like I did, or eFG if you really want to.

Kawhi's BEST playoff series is slightly below 21 year old LeBron's 1st ever playoff series. Is this where we are at? Rookie Brom vs Prime Kawhi. Yikes.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

No one cares about TS. Use FG and 3pa like I did, or eFG if you really want to.

Kawhi's BEST playoff series is slightly below 21 year old LeBron's 1st ever playoff series. Is this where we are at? Rookie Brom vs Prime Kawhi. Yikes.
Kawhi in 1st round 2017: 61.5% eFG

LeBron in 1st round 2007: 45% eFG

Are you happy now? You just embarrassed 22 year old LeBron. Stop wasting my time with comical arguments.

[Shooter]

Kawhi in 1st round 2017: 61.5% eFG

LeBron in 1st round 2007: 45% eFG

Are you happy now? You just embarrassed 22 year old LeBron. Stop wasting my time with comical arguments.

Look man I'm done responding to you, you are being disingenuous. Either that or you are completely, and I need you to admit, completely the dumbest person on this board. You're not even posting stats from the same series now. I'm talking about in 2006 when LBJ was 21 and played his first playoff series and you pulled some random numbers from 2007? So either you are a troll and I'll stop responding to you, or admit you are a complete idiot and then I can keep responding to you. There is no in between at this point. Again, the series I'm referencing he had a 60% TS and a 55% eFG.

I have no clue how your brain works or where you grab random numbers from.

[Jingo]

HBK got consistently bodied on RealGM so he's ghosted there to come back here with his nonsense :yaohappy:

[msbutthurt]

Kawhi Leonard 1707 total minute playoff stretch from 2016-2019: 28 PPG on 62.8% TS, 28.9PER, 11.4 BPM, 27% win share, 5.8 VORP, 123 offensive rating

LeBron James 1723 total minute playoff stretch from 2013-14: 27 PPG on 62.2% TS, 29.4 PER, 26% win share, 10.3 BPM, 5.4 VORP, 121 offensive rating

Michael Jordan 1703 total minute playoff stretch from 1992-1993: 35 PPG on 56.3% TS, 28.5 PER, 10.7 BPM, 5.4 VORP, 24% win share, 117 offensive rating

The black bold letters are who leads in categories. Who was the best?



Who had the best 10 inches stretching their bum? Lebron and AD do it to each other every day.

[msbutthurt]

HBK got consistently bodied on RealGM so he's ghosted there to come back here with his nonsense :yaohappy:

You are so low iq you just post the same image repeatedly. Enjoy Hong Kong, Jingo chained.

[Phoenix]

OP is quickly 3balling Kawhi.

[Manny98]

We have Kawhi stans now, yikes :oldlol:

[Overdrive]

You're hating on Kareem for 1 600 something minutes playoffs run, but praise Kawhi's 1700 in 4 seasons?

[HBK_Kliq_2]

You're hating on Kareem for 1 600 something minutes playoffs run, but praise Kawhi's 1700 in 4 seasons?

They didn't play minutes like that back then. Kareems prime 1971-1980 highest total minute playoff runs:

758 mins in 1974
577 mins in 1971
618 mins in 1980

That's 651 average minutes for his 3 best playoff runs. Meanwhile, Kawhi's 2019 playoff run was at 939 minutes. The grind of playing that many minutes is what gets you tired. Jordan's 1992 run he played over 900 minutes and all his advanced stats had a massive decline when comparing to his 1991 and 1993 runs. That's not a coincidence. The toll of lengthy minutes in 1 playoff run is exhausting.

So people get on today's NBA stars like Kawhi/Giannis/Luka only playing 32 or 33MPG. But the fact is, playoff runs were just not as lengthy back in Kareem's time.

[Roundball_Rock]

You're hating on Kareem for 1 600 something minutes playoffs run, but praise Kawhi's 1700 in 4 seasons?

:lol True.

[Jasper]

I'd have to think Kareem is right there

[HBK_Kliq_2]

You're hating on Kareem for 1 600 something minutes playoffs run, but praise Kawhi's 1700 in 4 seasons?


I'd have to think Kareem is right there

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar: Playoffs Advanced 1973-74 to 1978-79. Playing a total of 1726 minutes:

32PPG on 61% TS, 28.5 PER, 9.7 BPM, 5.0 VORP, 28% win shares, 28.5 PER

Kareem had to take a 5 year stretch to match Kawhi's 3 year stretch. 2016-2019 Kawhi is running laps around 1973-1979 Kareem in terms of playoff minutes. It took kawhi 3 years to 1700, kareem it takes 5 years.

[Shooter]

HBK got consistently bodied on RealGM so he's ghosted there to come back here with his nonsense :yaohappy:

I'm 90% sure he is 85% 3ball

[Roundball_Rock]

Kawhi getting compared to Kareem, LeBron, Jordan. :lol

Shady accounting on KAJ--ignoring KAJ played less games. Here are the numbers pro-rated to 82 games...

KAJ 1974-1979: 10.8 VORP, 20.9 BPM
Kawhi 2016-2019: 10.3 VORP, 20.3 BPM

We don't have VORP or BPM data for the first four years of KAJ's prime--his best statistical years...

If you expand it to 2014--Kawhi fans want to have it both ways on 2014--it looks like this:

KAJ 1974-1979: 10.8 VORP, 20.9 BPM
Kawhi 2014-2019: 8.0 VORP, 9.6 BPM

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Kawhi getting compared to Kareem, LeBron, Jordan. :lol

Shady accounting on KAJ--ignoring KAJ played less games. Here are the numbers pro-rated to 82 games...

KAJ 1974-1979: 10.8 VORP, 20.9 BPM
Kawhi 2016-2019: 10.3 VORP, 20.3 BPM

We don't have VORP or BPM data for the first four years of KAJ's prime--his best statistical years...

If you expand it to 2014--Kawhi fans want to have it both ways on 2014--it looks like this:

KAJ 1974-1979: 10.8 VORP, 20.9 BPM
Kawhi 2014-2019: 8.0 VORP, 9.6 BPM

The problem with Kareem is he only won 1 championship in an era of only 18 teams (1971-1976). And also there's not enough advanced stats data, that makes it more difficult to evaluate as well. The turnover stat wasn't even invented until Kareem was 30 years old, so we can't see how he did with turnovers as that is critical for a big man.

Jerry West was another guy who only won 1 ring in a very weak era. I knock him for that as well, especially when he had 9 finals appearances. His only finals MVP is a loss. His only ring was when his career was on the decline.

[DoctorP]

Bill Russell.

[Roundball_Rock]

Yeah, his teams went 3-14 and 7-13 without him--slipping 13 net points per game in 75'. Not everyone can have teams that go 17-5, 46-18, or 55-27 without them in their primes. Some players actually have major injuries on their team, not the other team.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Yeah, his teams went 3-14 and 7-13 without him--slipping 13 net points per game in 75'. Not everyone can have teams that go 17-5, 46-18, or 55-27 without them in their primes. Some players actually have major injuries on their team, not the other team.

Kareem made the finals in 1974 and his team got dominated despite having Oscar on his team.

Kawhi lost with Aldridge to Durant/Westbrook

Kareem lost with Oscar to John Havlicek/Cowens.

I would say Kareem's loss is much worse.

Oscar > Aldridge
Durant > Havlicek
Westbrook > Cowens

Kareem also spent back to back years in 1972/1973 playoffs letting Nate Thurmond be his daddy, what was that all about?

So there was times in the 1970s when Kareem got to the playoffs and still just didn't get the job done.

[Roundball_Rock]

Kareem made the finals in 1974 and his team got dominated despite having Oscar on his team.

:coleman:

The series went 7 games, hardly "dominated". Yes, there was a guy named Oscar Robertson on the roster. Unfortunately, it wasn't the Oscar we know due to injuries (to Kareem's team, not the other team...). Here is what dankok wrote about this years ago:


First 34 Games with a Healthy Oscar

Oscar: 15.4 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 6.9 apg on 45.0 %FG/84.4 %FT
Bucks Record: 27-7 (65 win pace)
Bucks MOV: 12.21 (WOW!)

Next 48 Games

Oscar: 10.1 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 5.8 apg on 42.6 %FG/82.4 %FT
Bucks Record: 32-16 (55 win pace)
Bucks MOV: 5.08

In the playoffs Oscar averaged a resurgent 14.0 ppg and 9.3 apg on 45.0% shooting through injury but in the Finals against a tough-nosed Celtics backcourt of White and Chaney the going was much tougher.

Bucks also missed starting SG Lucious Allen to injury. He was DNP for the entire playoffs.

Kareem was a beast in the '74 Finals averaging 32.6 ppg, 12.1 rpg, and 5.4 apg on 52.4% shooting for the series . He won 2 games by blocking a Cowens shot in Game 2 and then swishing a skyhook in Game 6. Coach Tom Heinsohn decided to change strategy and double and triple Kareem in Game 7 instead of going man-to-man with Cowens as he had for the first 6 games.

Poor Oscar averaged just 12.1 ppg, 3.7 rpg, and 8.1 apg on 43.2% shooting in the Finals including a 6 points Game 7 on 2-13 shooting.

Don't forget those Celtics were coming off of a dominant 68-win season the year before. There is no way anyone could consider the Bucks without Lucious Allen and a declining Oscar better than those Celtics.

Again without Kareem's dominant play and winning 2 games with clutch plays the series probably ends in 4-5 games in favor of Boston. Positions 1 through 4 the Celtics just outclassed the Bucks.

JoJo > Oscar
Chaney > McGlocklin
Hondo >> Dandridge
Silas > Perry

Oscar retired after that season. Hardly prime Oscar.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

:coleman:

The series went 7 games, hardly "dominated". Yes, there was a guy named Oscar Robertson on the roster. Unfortunately, it wasn't the Oscar we know due to injuries (to Kareem's team, not the other team...). Here is what dankok wrote about this years ago:



Oscar retired after that season. Hardly prime Oscar.

Kareem can't handle double teams is what that tells me. He's a great scorer I will not deny that. However, when the pressure is on for Kareem to be a playmaker? He always fails. Zero rings without Oscar/Magic tripling his assists %. We also don't know how much Kareem in his 20s was turning the ball over.

[Roundball_Rock]

He had 26/13/4 despite being doubled and tripled every play--Cowens was getting roasted that badly through 6 games. He was that great that "holding him" to 26/13 was an accomplishment for the team. People have won FMVP without ever approaching those numbers in a game.

KAJ is one of the GOAT passers at his position. It is odd to attack him on passing in favor of a subpar passer compared to his ATG SF peers.

[Manny98]

LeBron

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Bill Russell.

People get on Kawhi for his scoring in 2014 finals. What about Bill Russell's scoring? He was 7th in scoring on his team in the 1969 finals.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

He had 26/13/4 despite being doubled and tripled every play--Cowens was getting roasted that badly through 6 games. He was that great that "holding him" to 26/13 was an accomplishment for the team. People have won FMVP without ever approaching those numbers in a game.

KAJ is one of the GOAT passers at his position. It is odd to attack him on passing in favor of a subpar passer compared to his ATG SF peers.

I fail to see how Kareem makes his teammates better. Game 7 he led bucks to a 89.4 offensive rating and 87 points, that's an embarrassing drop off from their regular season numbers or even series numbers.