With the Lakers depth, why is Lebron playing more minutes than Kawhi/Giannis at 35?

[Clippersfan86]

Lebron playing 35 minutes a game. Kawhi 32 mpg, and Giannis 30 mpg. I know a lot of Lakers fans have felt all year they had great depth, so why is this happening at his age? He's going to be 36 by the time next season comes around. Is this going to eventually bite him/them with fatigue or injury issues? Or are the PED's too strong, and will they remain undefeated?

[light]

Lebron playing 35 minutes a game. Kawhi 32 mpg, and Giannis 30 mpg. I know a lot of Lakers fans have felt all year they had great depth, so why is this happening at his age? He's going to be 36 by the time next season comes around. Is this going to eventually bite him/them with fatigue or injury issues? Or are the PED's too strong, and will they remain undefeated?

LeBron's 34.9 minutes per game is the lowest of his career. He's totally fine.

Kawhi is injury prone, so they keep him on short minutes. The Bucks are being gentle with Giannis for their own reasons. These approaches are not necessary with James.

[Roundball_Rock]

The Bucks have a lot of blowouts.

Kawhi, 28, is odd. He takes so many games off and still needs to play (for a superstar) limited minutes when he does show up?

LeBron is 15th in MPG. He only sticks out for this era where Harden leads at 37 MPG. MJ played 39 MPG at 35--and he ranked 17th in the league. Superstars played high 30's, low 40's not too long ago.

[Lebron23]

Lebron playing 35 minutes a game. Kawhi 32 mpg, and Giannis 30 mpg. I know a lot of Lakers fans have felt all year they had great depth, so why is this happening at his age? He's going to be 36 by the time next season comes around. Is this going to eventually bite him/them with fatigue or injury issues? Or are the PED's too strong, and will they remain undefeated?

Because lebron is the engine of the Lakers Offense. And he's more Durable than Kawhi. Lebron wants to be the only player to ever score 40,000 in nba history.

[Clippersfan86]

The Bucks have a lot of blowouts.

Kawhi, 28, is odd. He takes so many games off and still needs to play (for a superstar) limited minutes when he does show up?

LeBron is 15th in MPG. He only sticks out for this era where Harden leads at 37 MPG. MJ played 39 MPG at 35--and he ranked 17th in the league. Superstars played high 30's, low 40's not too long ago.

Kawhi load managing wouldn't affect his minutes. Clippers having the best bench in the NBA keeps his minutes low. Bucks having so many blowouts and depth themselves keeps Giannis minutes low. If the Lakers have a bench, couldn't the afford to play Lebron closer to 30? I've watched enough games and sometimes he rests for 1-2 minutes tops before coming back in. As for the past, yes it's true.. stars played a lot more in previous eras. It doesn't mean the guy with more mileage on his body than anyone in NBA history shouldn't have his minutes down a little bit at 35 years old.

[Gotterdammerung]

LeBron is 15th in MPG. He only sticks out for this era where Harden leads at 37 MPG. MJ played 39 MPG at 35--and he ranked 17th in the league. Superstars played high 30's, low 40's not too long ago.

https://media.giphy.com/media/xT1XGESDlxj0GwoDRe/giphy.gif

[SATAN]

It's not like they have a Williams or Harrelll coming off the bench. Also, Rondo hasn't exactly been good.

[Lebron23]

https://media.giphy.com/media/xT1XGESDlxj0GwoDRe/giphy.gif

Tim Duncan started the trend because the Spurs had a great system back then, and lots of quality scorera off the bench

[Gotterdammerung]

Tim Duncan started the trend because the Spurs had a great system back then, and lots of quality scorera off the bench

Not exactly.

Tim Duncan didn't "started the trend" because that was Popovich's strategy to save his legs in the regular season, once he got to a certain age. That did extend Duncan's career and save his legs for the playoffs. But this strategy is double-edged: it reduces numbers across the board, and that takes away the main leverage players have when they're negotiating new contracts.

And now that strategy has somehow exploded to include healthy players in their prime, limiting their minutes and/or benching them on back to backs, etc.
https://media.giphy.com/media/xT1XGESDlxj0GwoDRe/giphy.gif

[Roundball_Rock]

Not exactly.

Tim Duncan didn't "started the trend" because that was Popovich's strategy to save his legs in the regular season, once he got to a certain age. That did extend Duncan's career and save his legs for the playoffs. But this strategy is double-edged: it reduces numbers across the board, and that takes away the main leverage players have when they're negotiating new contracts.

And now that strategy has somehow exploded to include healthy players in their prime, limiting their minutes and/or benching them on back to backs, etc.
https://media.giphy.com/media/xT1XGESDlxj0GwoDRe/giphy.gif

It hit a new low when Kawhi "rested" a week into the season--against the Bucks in a nationally televised game too. Not exactly a soft match up against a lottery team in a game that no one cared about.

[Axe]

Surprisingly, that guy is very resilient. I mean he's 35 already but he hasn't got any major injuries recently and if he starts averaging below 25mpg, people might think he's getting old to the point that his key teammates would be bailing him out in the games that they play.

[msbutthurt]

Because lebron is the engine of the Lakers Offense. And he's more Durable than Kawhi. Lebron wants to be the only player to ever score 40,000 in nba history.

Lebron will be the first player to suck 40,000 wieners.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Clippers are the more dominating team when Kawhi plays. The difference is Kawhi. If you flip flip kawhi and LeBron, Lakers would win title. No way in hell that Kawhi loses with AD on his team. Lakers should be the favorites because AD is better then PG. Its Kawhi that makes clippers the sudden favorites.

[Axe]

Clippers are the more dominating team when Kawhi plays. The difference is Kawhi. If you flip flip kawhi and LeBron, Lakers would win title. No way in hell that Kawhi loses with AD on his team. Lakers should be the favorites because AD is better then PG. Its Kawhi that makes clippers the sudden favorites.
I'm favoring the clippers to dominate in the potential hallway series but i think we should see the results first before we get too hyped about it.

[Turbo Slayer]

I think the Clippers has more depth than the Lakers. I am picking the Clippers to win over the Lakers in a PO series between the two. I hope that LeBron proves me wrong and that he still got it in him. Oh well.

[Shooter]

Lebron playing 35 minutes a game. Kawhi 32 mpg, and Giannis 30 mpg. I know a lot of Lakers fans have felt all year they had great depth, so why is this happening at his age? He's going to be 36 by the time next season comes around. Is this going to eventually bite him/them with fatigue or injury issues? Or are the PED's too strong, and will they remain undefeated?

You're wondering why the most fragile, dainty top 40 player of all time is playing fewer minutes than the literal most robust, reliable player of all time? What has Insidehoops come to? Next you're going to make a thread wondering why LBJ has more points than MJ even though LBJ made 9 Finals and MJ made 6. What's next these days.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

I'm favoring the clippers to dominate in the potential hallway series but i think we should see the results first before we get too hyped about it.

No fans is perfect for clippers/Lakers series. This way there isn't a Lakers fans hijack of every game. Now we just get to see who the flat out better team is with no crowd bullshit. If anything, Lakers fans taking over is what would of put an asterisk on the series. Now we get to see who the real better team is.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

You're wondering why the most fragile, dainty top 40 player of all time is playing fewer minutes than the literal most robust, reliable player of all time? What has Insidehoops come to? Next you're going to make a thread wondering why LBJ has more points than MJ even though LBJ made 9 Finals and MJ made 6. What's next these days.

The 20 year old Luka is playing 1 more minute then Kawhi and mavs are a worse team then Clippers.

[light]

No fans is perfect for clippers/Lakers series. This way there isn't a Lakers fans hijack of every game. Now we just get to see who the flat out better team is with no crowd bullshit. If anything, Lakers fans taking over is what would of put an asterisk on the series. Now we get to see who the real better team is.

We already know it's the Lakers. Paul George is the weak link there. Same with Giannis and Middleton.

When they play against LeBron and AD - two true franchise cornerstones - Middleton and George are the odd men out.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

We already know it's the Lakers. Paul George is the weak link there. Same with Giannis and Middleton.

When they play against LeBron and AD - two true franchise cornerstones - Middleton and George are the odd men out.

That's what people thought when Kawhi had to face Curry/Draymond or Embiid/Butler. Yet kawhi still won with Lowry/Siakam. Now kawhi has a better pairing then Lowry/Siakam in George/Harrell, so I still see a title because playoff Kawhi is that damn good.

[ArbitraryWater]

what depth?

The Bucks and Clippers have far more depth

Lakers' pro is having the best 2nd option

You are being a bit of a **** lately

[Jingo]

What depth? They collapse whenever he sits, even when AD is on the floor

[msbutthurt]

What depth? They collapse whenever he sits, even when AD is on the floor


You would let Lebron collapse your bum with his dong.

[Uncle Drew]

You would let Lebron collapse your bum with his dong.

Wouldn't you?

[msbutthurt]

Wouldn't you?


I have to think about it... I mean... on one hand, I'm not gay. On the other hand, Lebron fans are gay. So I guess... I don't want Lebron aids to infect me.

[Uncle Drew]

I have to think about it... I mean... on one hand, I'm not gay. On the other hand, Lebron fans are gay. So I guess... I don't want Lebron aids to infect me.

You're oozing with gayness, I can tell.

[msbutthurt]

You're oozing with gayness, I can tell.

You would let Lebron ooze in your bum while Brian Windhorst oozes in Lebron's bum. I can tell.

[Roundball_Rock]

If you flip flip kawhi and LeBron, Lakers would win title. No way in hell that Kawhi loses with AD on his team. Lakers should be the favorites because AD is better then PG. Its Kawhi that makes clippers the sudden favorites.

In terms of talent but not in terms of on court fit. With LeBron gone, who would do the facilitating and ballhandling to make the offense function? They went 6-3 without AD but I doubt they could do the same without LeBron. Look at their numbers when LeBron is off the court.

AD joined a lottery team; Kawhi, PG joined what was already a 48 win team. They aren't apples to apples scenarios.


No fans is perfect for clippers/Lakers series. This way there isn't a Lakers fans hijack of every game.

Kawhi runs "King of LA" ads but his team has no fans in LA? :oldlol:


et kawhi still won with Lowry/Siakam. Now kawhi has a better pairing then Lowry/Siakam in George/Harrell

Except Siakam/Lowry with OG Anunoby "replacing" Kawhi have a better record than Kawhi/PG/Williams/Harrell. :confusedshrug:

[HBK_Kliq_2]

In terms of talent but not in terms of on court fit. With LeBron gone, who would do the facilitating and ballhandling to make the offense function? They went 6-3 without AD but I doubt they could do the same without LeBron. Look at their numbers when LeBron is off the court.

AD joined a lottery team; Kawhi, PG joined what was already a 48 win team. They aren't apples to apples scenarios.



Kawhi runs "King of LA" ads but his team has no fans in LA? :oldlol:



Except Siakam/Lowry with OG Anunoby "replacing" Kawhi have a better record than Kawhi/PG/Williams/Harrell. :confusedshrug:

Clippers are not the same exact team from previous year, they lost 3 borderline all-star talents. OP posted a thread about Shai Gilgeous-Alexander having the best 3 man net rating with Paul and Dennis on thunder.

They also lost Harris a 21PPG scorer. They also lost Danilo Gallinari a 20PPG scorer.

That's 3 damn good players that clippers lost. While Paul George has been hurt and inconsistent who couldn't even make the all-star team this year. Lets see what Kawhi Leonard still did to clippers team rankings when comparing to the previous year.

Offensive rating: jumped from 9th to 3rd

Defensive rating: jumped from 21st to 5th

SRS: jumped from 13th to 3rd

As far as raptors, they added the emergence of fred van fleet averaging 17PPG, Powell 16PPG, OG elite defender. That all helped them a lot. Players get better ya know, this is the freaking NBA after all. Siakam, fred, Powell all improved. That's like telling Duncan you had Kawhi in 2012? Well he didn't improve and emerge yet, just like Siakam/Fred/Powell were not there yet in 2019.

Besides, clippers still have a way better offensive rating then Raptors and a better SRS despite being in the tougher western conference.

[Roundball_Rock]

They also lost Harris a 21PPG scorer.

That was in a mid-season trade--the Clippers went 16-7 after the break after going 32-27 before the break.

They essentially swapped Kawhi & PG for SGA and Gallinari. Those are upgrades while keeping Williams and Harrell. The Raptors got nothing back for losing Kawhi (who they gave up DeRozan for).


While Paul George has been hurt and inconsistent

He is playing only 29 MPG coming off a (real) injury this year. His per 36 numbers are comparable to last year:

2020: 26/7/5 58.3% TS
2019: 27/8/4 58.2% TS


Players get better ya know, this is the freaking NBA after all. Siakam, fred, Powell all improved

It is amazing how many players "improve" when they get away from players who play Kawhi's style.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

That was in a mid-season trade--the Clippers went 16-7 after the break after going 32-27 before the break.

They essentially swapped Kawhi & PG for SGA and Gallinari. Those are upgrades while keeping Williams and Harrell. The Raptors got nothing back for losing Kawhi (who they gave up DeRozan for).



He is playing only 29 MPG coming off a (real) injury this year. His per 36 numbers are comparable to last year:

2020: 26/7/5 58.3% TS
2019: 27/8/4 58.2% TS



It is amazing how many players "improve" when they get away from players who play Kawhi's style.

Harris was their best player during that 32-27 stretch, you also ignored Daniel G another 19PPG scorer they lost.

They lost two 20PPG scorers + SGA.

Lets just say George is equal to the combination of Gallo/SGA.

Kawhi basically took the same team minus Harris and dramatically improved them.

Kawhi as his teams best scorer is 6-0 in playoff series since 2017, so his style is working. Those raptors haven't proven anything in playoffs without Kawhi, they will get owned by Bucks/Celtics/76ers.

[Roundball_Rock]

you also ignored Daniel G another 19PPG scorer they lost.

Why do posters flat out lie about what is in plain text? Rewind the tape:


They essentially swapped Kawhi & PG for SGA and Gallinari.

Kawhi/PG should>>>>SGA/Gallo. The team did improve--just not as much as you would expect. Meanwhile the Raptors maintained their win rate despite losing Kawhi and not bringing in any star replacement. It is the same core back.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Why do posters flat out lie about what is in plain text? Rewind the tape:



Kawhi/PG should>>>>SGA/Gallo. The team did improve--just not as much as you would expect. Meanwhile the Raptors maintained their win rate despite losing Kawhi and not bringing in any star replacement. It is the same core back.

PG is equal to the combination of Gall/SGA. So they are basically the same team as last year. Kawhi jumps on the team and makes them elite in offensive/defense/srs ranks. I don't see how that makes Kawhi look like lesser of a player.

Raptors have added OG's defense, the emergence of vanvleet and Powell offense. They still dropped from 5th offense with Kawhi to 14th ranked offense this season. So raptors have had Vanvleet/Powell have career years and still their offense dropped to 14th.

Fred Vanvleet is on a contract year playing out of his mind. He was never that type of player his entire career with or without Kawhi. Like I said, players improve. I don't see anybody knocking Shaq for not winning with 90s Kobe? Because Kobe was an entirely different player in the 2000s.

[Roundball_Rock]

PG is equal to the combination of Gall/SGA

They didn't give up Gallo, SGA and a decade's worth of draft picks to get equal near term value back. They did it because they felt PG's near term value>>>theirs and is worth the gamble for getting a chip or chips (in conjunction with Kawhi, who demanded PG as a condition for signing) despite the long term hit.


Kawhi jumps on the team and makes them elite in offensive/defense/srs ranks. I don't see how that makes Kawhi look like lesser of a player.

Of course he is going to improve the team. All I am saying is improving from 48 wins to a 56 win pace isn't what was expected given two superstars replacing Gallo and SGA.


They still dropped from 5th offense with Kawhi to 14th ranked offense this season.

They have had a ton of injuries this year so 1) we would have to see how the offense performed when healthy 2) separate out the Kawhi games and non-Kawhi games for 19' to see what the difference was. We can't just attribute all year-to-year changes to Kawhi. They had the #2 offense in 18' before Kawhi, after all.


I don't see anybody knocking Shaq for not winning with 90s Kobe? Because Kobe was an entirely different player in the 2000s.

It's just me and a personal theory I have on ball dominant, shoot/score first players like Kawhi. As other players get the ball more (you yourself have noted Kawhi's high usage) they improve via being involved in the offense, more motivated as a result, better rhythm as a result, etc.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

They didn't give up Gallo, SGA and a decade's worth of draft picks to get equal near term value back. They did it because they felt PG's near term value>>>theirs and is worth the gamble for getting a chip or chips (in conjunction with Kawhi, who demanded PG as a condition for signing) despite the long term hit.



Of course he is going to improve the team. All I am saying is improving from 48 wins to a 56 win pace isn't what was expected given two superstars replacing Gallo and SGA.



They have had a ton of injuries this year so 1) we would have to see how the offense performed when healthy 2) separate out the Kawhi games and non-Kawhi games for 19' to see what the difference was. We can't just attribute all year-to-year changes to Kawhi. They had the #2 offense in 18' before Kawhi, after all.



It's just me and a personal theory I have on ball dominant, shoot/score first players like Kawhi. As other players get the ball more (you yourself have noted Kawhi's high usage) they improve via being involved in the offense, more motivated as a result, better rhythm as a result, etc.

Harris was their MVP for half the season, you ignore that fact. Even with that, kawhi has dramatically improved the team.

SRS went from 13th to 3rd
Defensive rating 21st to 5th
Offensive rating 9th to 3rd

As far as raptors, it was Kawhi's usage that won them the title. Vanfleet never proved he was capable of consistently playing on that level during playoffs. Vanfleet actually almost single handedly eliminated raptors by his game 3 ECF performance. He's 26 now and coming into his prime, he wasn't that level of a player the previous year. That's like blaming Tim Duncan for Kawhi not being an all-star yet in 2012.

[Axe]

You would let Lebron ooze in your bum while Brian Windhorst oozes in Lebron's bum. I can tell.
:roll:

[Roundball_Rock]

The Clippers got notably better after trading away Harris (32-27 to 16-8 after the break). :lol


As far as raptors, it was Kawhi's usage that won them the title. Vanfleet never proved he was capable of consistently playing on that level during playoffs

FVV had a 15% PO usage rate. That was 7th on the team once you exclude players who really didn't play like Lin. Siakam was (de facto) 2nd at 23%--far behind Kawhi's 32% to be sure.