Can we agree that Piston-killer and FMVP Worthy would've won title with MJ in 1988?

[3ball]

And Kevin Johnson - who led Suns to WCF in 89' and 90' (including the destruction of Magic's 1 seeded Lakers) - he would've won titles with MJ from 89-91

in the late 80's, Worthy, KJ, and McHale played better than Pippen ever did in his career.. all three win easily with peak mj from 88-91'..

pippen wasted peak mj by sucking those years and only winning 1 ring during mj's uber-peak

if you're looking for a guy that the winning spotlight inflated - it's the guy with the worst playoff peak (by far) - that's pippen

[Shooter]

2013 Wade scored fewer points than ANY Pippen playoff run to a chip. All six of Pippen's #2 option championship runs score more ppg than Wade in the 2013 playoffs.

[DoctorP]

Free agency began in 88. What were their contracts like?

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Absolutely, they call him big game James Worthy for a reason. I can see Jordan winning 2 or 3 with worthy but not 6 like he did with Pippen.

Magic/Worthy won the title in 1988 when Kareem had 0.0 VORP during his playoff "run". Wow any other legend in top 10 would get killed for that.

[3ball]

Absolutely, they call him big game James Worthy for a reason. I can see Jordan winning 2 or 3 with worthy but not 6 like he did with Pippen.

Magic/Worthy won the title in 1988 when Kareem had 0.0 VORP during his playoff "run". Wow any other legend in top 10 would get killed for that.

you're forgetting that pippen wasted Jordan's uber-prime from 87-91, when mj had the freshest and springiest legs .. fresh mj wins with worthy every year from 85-90... 84' worthy averaged 22 on 64% against the Celtics in Finals (his first playoffs) and dominated every year

[HBK_Kliq_2]

you're forgetting that pippen wasted Jordan's uber-prime from 87-91, when mj had the freshest and springiest legs .. fresh mj wins with worthy every year from 85-90... 84' worthy averaged 22 on 64% against the Celtics in Finals (his first playoffs) and dominated every year

Pippen was an all-star in his 3rd year, worthy wasn't until his 4th year.

Worthy: 3.1 BPM, 5.7 VORP, 14% win share, 58% TS, 19 PER, 4441 minutes 1985-1991

Pippen: 5.7 BPM, 8.8 VORP, 16% win share, 53% TS, 20 PER, 4526 minutes 1990-1996

Pippen matches worthy there and then still gave Jordan a great 2 more runs in 1997/1998. Pippen also still had it in 2000 with Portland when he was a shot away from another title, Jordan just left him by then

[3ball]

Pippen was an all-star in his 3rd year, worthy wasn't until his 4th year.

Worthy: 3.1 BPM, 5.7 VORP, 14% win share, 58% TS, 19 PER, 4441 minutes 1985-1991

Pippen: 5.7 BPM, 8.8 VORP, 16% win share, 53% TS, 20 PER, 4526 minutes 1990-1996

Pippen matches worthy there and then still gave Jordan a great 2 more runs in 1997/1998. Pippen also still had it in 2000 with Portland when he was a shot away from another title, Jordan just left him by then

Worthy's team was far more stacked so regular season stats mean nothing

but pippen never dominated the playoffs and everyone else did .. his peak playoff capability falls short of..... everyone.... worthy, dumars, McHale, kj, Kemp, Payton, Ewing... everybody...

he sucked in the 88-90' playoffs, and also 93', and 96-98'... anyone would've won in his place... he literally had 1 good playoff run - 91'... even in 92' he choked in the 2nd round and the bulls nearly lost... the guy was horrible.. his 93' production rate was worse than 14' wade

[Manny98]

He would have won with the Lakers in 91 as well if he wasn't injured :applause:

[Roundball_Rock]

The real answer: if the Bulls have Worthy they don't have the #3 pick and don't draft MJ in the first place. Unless the argument is Worthy=Woolridge...

Worthy was done after 1992. The Bulls don't win in 88' with Worthy--Pistons still better--but they win in 89', 90'. 91' is dicey--Worthy was hurt in the playoffs and went down for good in the finals.

The other factor, in this alternate scenario where is Pippen? Cleveland and Detroit are among the teams that we know had high interest in him from reporting then (Detroit GM: "desperately" wanted him because he projected Pippen to be a superstar--his words on the record the week of the draft) along with Sacramento. If Krause doesn't pull off the trade--no need to do so if they have Worthy at SF after all--is it Detroit that succeeds in trading with Seattle to get into the top 5? Does Cleveland go from #7 and #5 and take Pippen over Kevin Johnson (who they gave away after a season)?

Cleveland with Pippen:

PF Nance
SF Pippen
C Daughtery
SG Harper (later Ehlo/G. Wilkins)
PG Price

This team would clearly be better than the Bulls with Jordan, Worthy, Grant until injuries (Daughtery, Nance) break them up after 94'.

Detroit with Pippen:

PF Rodman
SF Pippen
C Laimbeer
SG Dumars
PG Isiah

Pippen would start hitting his prime right when Isiah, Laimbeer and others started to decline so he would extend their reign in that scenario.

The real question: if Pippen isn't there to give MJ 6 rings, and MJ has, say, 2, who do these MJ stans become stans of instead?