Every argument to put Lebron over MJ can be used by others

[3ball]

longevity = Kareem, Malone, Kobe

beat a higher-win team in playoffs = baron, dwight and others did too

8 straight conference finals - Wilt and West had similar accomplishments WITHOUT forming a super-team in a conference that weak teams were routinely winning


otoh, Jordan's goat arguments are unique to him only... i.e. 6 rings as the best player in modern era/3-pointer basketball.... goat production rate.... 2 three-peats in 3-pointer basketball/modern era

[SATAN]

obsession
[ uh b-sesh-uh n ]
SEE SYNONYMS FOR obsession ON THESAURUS.COM
noun
the domination of one's thoughts or feelings by a persistent idea, image, desire, etc.
the idea, image, desire, feeling, etc., itself.
the state of being obsessed.
the act of obsessing.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Lebron checks all those categories though. These players you mentioned only fill one.

Think these topics through, boss.

[Overdrive]

longevity = Kareem, Malone, Kobe

beat a higher-win team in playoffs = baron, dwight and others did too

8 straight conference finals - Wilt and West had similar accomplishments WITHOUT forming a super-team in a conference that weak teams were routinely winning


otoh, Jordan's goat arguments are unique to him only... i.e. 6 rings as the best player in modern era/3-pointer basketball.... goat production rate.... 2 three-peats in 3-pointer basketball/modern era

The difference is, he combines those arguments. There are enough things you can attack Lebron for, but his resume puts him in rare territory.

[Shooter]

Lebron checks all those categories though. These players you mentioned only fill one.

Think these topics through, boss.

Facts.

OP needed to include 7 players to match LeBron and didnt even realize it :lol

[Axe]

Baldan never led a bunch of scrubs to 66 wins.

[3ball]

Lebron checks all those categories though. These players you mentioned only fill one.

Think these topics through, boss.

winning conference finals is worse than winning Finals like other greats

and Kareem has 9 conference finals just like Lebron, while beating higher-win teams than Jordan did, and having better longevity than Jordan

so Kareem checks the boxes.. but the reality is that longevity is a farce - producing at a lower level for longer doesn't mean anything, aka playing at a lower level for longer - how does that make one better??.. it's the dumbest argument ever and it was only invented recently to bring down Jordan

how does longevity (playing at a lower level for longer) compare to the arguments I presented for Jordan?... it doesn't BEGIN to compare and it's a farce of an argument

[Shooter]

winning conference finals is worse than winning Finals like other greats

and Kareem has 9 conference finals just like Lebron, while beating higher-win teams than Jordan did, and having better longevity than Jordan

so Kareem checks the boxes.. but the reality is that longevity is a farce - producing at a lower level for longer doesn't mean anything, aka playing at a lower level for longer - how does that make one better??.. it's the dumbest argument ever and it was only invented recently to bring down Jordan

MJ lacked the mental toughness to consistently compete at a high level for an extended period of time. He never made more than 3 straight Finals once before. He also only made 6 Finals total. Six...Kareem made 10. LeBron 9. Magic 8. Kobe 7. They were MENTALLY TOUGH. MJ was a quitter, he retired three damn times man. He lacked the ability to have a long career, he was good for short bursts. Definitely a knock on him.

Cant make more than 3 Finals in a row?

#NotMyGoat

Those that can make 4 or more in a row:

Russell, Kareem, LeBron, Magic

Locked top 4

[3ball]

Baldan never led a bunch of scrubs to 66 wins.

Jordan won 47 games with 33/8/8, while lebron won 66 with 28/8/7 (lesser stats) because his cast was better

Jordan's cast in 89' was all rookies with zero all-stars or all-defenders, while lebron had a cast of vets and guys with all-star/all-defense experience (Mo, Zydrunas,Varejao, Hughes)

Jordan also played in a conference that required an all-time great team to win the conference - weak teams like Dwight's Magic or Lebron's 07' Cavs wouldn't cut it in the 80's East

Finally, Jordan dragged his low seed and rookie cast to 6 games with the champs, while lebron's high-seed and veteran cast were swept in 07' and lost to Dwight in 09'... lol

[3ball]

longevity (producing at a lower rate for longer) isn't an argument

neither is a conference finals streak after forming a super-team in a weak conference (manufactured streak)

when did lebron's conference finals streak start?... only after forming super-team in weak conference..

Finally, lebron has no arguments that are HIS OWN - others can make the same arguments... mj can make a bunch of arguments that others can make too... but only the goat has arguments that no one else can make - that's mj

[NBAGOAT]

you're right op, kareem has a case over mj mainly because of longevity

[SpaceJam]

Pippen has 2 three-peats in 3-pointer basketball/modern era.

Also why does MJ get the 3-pointer basketball/modern era criteria but Bron doesn't?

In that case

8 straight conference finals in 3-pointer basketball/modern era. Bron. That's it, that's the list


Finally, lebron has no arguments that are HIS OWN - others can make the same arguments... mj can make a bunch of arguments that others can make too... but only the goat has arguments that no one else can make - that's mj

You can literally make unique arguments for Bron, as well as most other top tier legends. For example, what I just did above

[3ball]

you're right op, kareem has a case over mj mainly because of longevity

no Kareem has no case and HAD no case until people needed ways to prop up lebron

before 2016, Kareem was a footnote and not considered goat except by a few ex-teammates or the occasional old-timer

no one gave 2 bird shits about his longevity or winning rings with 13 ppg.. everyone knew that didn't compare to mj

the lebron media has simply fabricated the longevity narrative to dilute mj's goatness

but again, producing at a lower rate for longer doesn't make anyone a better basketball player.. it's a completely farcical argument.. 6 rings in 11 full seasons, or 6 rings in 20?... there shouldn't be any debate and there never used to be - this Kareem bullshit is a RECENT development, which proves it's fraudulence

at least the 8 straight conference finals is an accomplishment that gauges degree of domination and not how long someone played.. but it's still a manufactured accomplishment that only started after "the decision", aka manufactured in plain view .. and it's been duplicated by others too...

only mj has goat arguments that no one else can use, while also having no career weaknesses or blemishes like everyone else does

and again, longevity is a farcical argument that only dumb people lap up like fools.. it's sad

[Axe]

Kareem has no case?? Oh come on. Don't be ridiculous. :lol

[3ball]

Kareem has no case?? Oh come on. Don't be ridiculous. :lol
ur just regurgitating dumb group think that you heard in recent years

but before the lebron media started lying to everyone, no one thought that winning rings with 0.0 VORP was goat (replacement player level)

ultimately, mj played from 85-03' and only retired twice because he was too dominant for there to be any challenges

[3ball]

you guys don't think Jordan was capable of playing in 94', 95' or 99-03'?

who actually thinks that?.. he wasn't physically capable of playing?

[FKAri]

you guys don't think Jordan was capable of playing in 94', 95' or 99-03'?

who actually thinks that?.. he wasn't physically capable of playing?

He wasn't mentally capable of playing.

[Roundball_Rock]

The irony. :lol

[Shooter]

OP?

MJ lacked the mental toughness to consistently compete at a high level for an extended period of time. He never made more than 3 straight Finals once before. He also only made 6 Finals total. Just six...

Russell made 12. Kareem made 10. LeBron 9. Magic 9. Kobe 7. They were MENTALLY TOUGH. MJ was a quitter, he retired three damn times man. He lacked the ability to have a long career, he was good for short bursts. Definitely a knock on him. Cant make more than 3 Finals in a row?

#NotMyGoat

Those that can make 4 or more in a row:

Russell, Kareem, LeBron, Magic

Locked top 4.

[HoopsNY]

Lebron checks all those categories though. These players you mentioned only fill one.

Think these topics through, boss.

Bingo

[Axe]

ur just regurgitating dumb group think that you heard in recent years

but before the lebron media started lying to everyone, no one thought that winning rings with 0.0 VORP was goat (replacement player level)

ultimately, mj played from 85-03' and only retired twice because he was too dominant for there to be any challenges
Well, that's because he's played in a 'soft-era'.

[RRR3]

OP banned yet again. I don't get it, 3ball, you're gonna keep getting banned if you keep spamming, so why not chill out?

[SouBeachTalents]

OP banned yet again. I don't get it, 3ball, you're gonna keep getting banned if you keep spamming, so why not chill out?
It's about 26,000 posts too late for that discussion

[Phoenix]

Damn, 3ball just came back like last week.

[Roundball_Rock]

OP banned yet again. I don't get it, 3ball, you're gonna keep getting banned if you keep spamming, so why not chill out?

He posted one thread about Wilt but then went back to Jordan, LeBron, and Pippen. :lol

[light]

A small group of players have legit arguments for GOAT.

No one has an impenetrable case.

Russell, Kareem, LeBron, Jordan and Wilt are all valid.

All of these players will always have people who think they are the greatest and there's nothing any of us can do about it.

[3ball]

A small group of players have legit arguments for GOAT.

No one has an impenetrable case.

Russell, Kareem, LeBron, Jordan and Wilt are all valid.

All of these players will always have people who think they are the greatest and there's nothing any of us can do about it.

no one's accomplishments compare to Jordan

it's not just the rings as best player in modern era, goat production rate, or 2 three-peat dominance....

it's stuff like winning 6 rings as scoring champ

or being scoring champ and 1st team defense... 9 times

[Shooter]

no one's accomplishments compare to Jordan

it's not just the rings as best player in modern era, goat production rate, or 2 three-peat dominance....

it's stuff like winning 6 rings as scoring champ

or being scoring champ and 1st team defense... 9 times

Show me MJ's career broken down into "with Pippen" and "without Pippen"

[3ball]

Show me MJ's career broken down into "with Pippen" and "without Pippen"

pippen cost mj rings from 88-90' - mj would've 3-peated these years with Piston-killer and FMVP "Big Game James", aka the opposite of Pippen

mj won 6 rings in spite of pippen's pathetic production.

(19 on 42% in the 6 Finals..... nearly caused a loss in 92' ECSF with 16 on 40% and getting destroyed by X-man... nearly caused loss in 93' Finals with 45.9 true shooting and outplayed by 4th option Dumas.... carried by 41 ppg Jordan... 17 on 40% in 96-98' playoffs... 16 on 38% in 96' and 98' Finals... last in clutch points every year, behind ostertag, hornacek, chris morris, etc... )

and mj assisted 33% more often than pippen while doubling his scoring and saving Pippen from X-man (enforcer) .. pippen helped mj with .... nothing... mj did everything and he even had to get more dpoy votes every year and be the best defender in the league (according to everyone, aka Magic, Jerry West, Pat Riley, Barkley.. let me know if you need the video)

anyone should be able to win with a 35/6/6/dpoy/mvp.... the goat producer and goat defender.. except pippen - only pippen couldn't win with this

the weak, selfish Pippen couldn't win with the best help ever because pippen was someone the defense "didn't even think about" (pistons said this)