What is Landry Shamet's upside?

[Clippersfan86]

As a rookie he became #4 all time for rookies in 3 pointers made, just ahead of Steph. He turned 23 a couple months ago.

Landry Shamet shot 42.2% (45% with the Clippers) from three last season and has 167 made threes.

Steph Curry shot 43.7% from three and had 166 made threes.

Total 3PTM Made by Rookies

Donovan Mitchell: 187 (34.0%)

Damian Lillard: 185 (36.8%)

Luka Doncic: 168 (32.7%)

Landry Shamet: 167 (42.2%)

Steph Curry: 166 (43.7%)


When you factor in percentages, only Steph was historically a better rookie 3 point shooter. This year, unfortunately he has seen his role reduced a lot due to the additions of PG+Kawhi (minutes and shots similar, but touches and play actions are down. He did say yesterday in an interview though that he's been studying A LOT of dynasty Warriors Steph/Klay film to get better at getting separation during physical games etc.

This year he's putting up about 10/2/2 in 27 mpg at 39% from 3. He's also emerged as one of the Clippers top perimeter defender pests. He got mentored by JJ Redick in Philly. IMO what makes him a much better prospect is he played PG in HS/College, and is a MUCH better ball handler than Redick ever was. On top of that he's oddly not seen as a great athlete, despite a 40 inch vertical and good speed.

Doc has admitted he's done a terrible job of getting him involved in more plays this year. IMO he's the ideal 3rd scoring option on this team if we run him as the 6th man with staggered minutes with starters. Another path would be him improving his playmaking a lot and taking over as our starting PG.

How do you see his career developing? What's a good comp for him?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rw015IL3yBI

https://www.kansas.com/sports/college/wichita-state/article212320239.html

So far the biggest obstacle is overcoming the notion that he is a below-average athlete, which in turn has teams worried about his ability to defend. But Shamet is helping dispel that notion with workouts like his pro day on Wednesday, when he showed explosion that wasn't on his tape at WSU. A 39 1/2-inch vertical jump at the combine also helps.

"I know I'm a better athlete than I'm getting credit for and I want to show that," Shamet said. "Just showing I can finish around the rim and dunking the ball, showing I can get up and finish just like everybody else in the NBA. They know I can shoot it, but now I want to show them some of things maybe I didn't do as much at Wichita State."


I was at this game when he went off on Miami in the 4th.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPbM9nNUsRo

[iamgine]

When i first saw him play in his rookie year, I thought he had the best shooting motion I've ever seen.

[Clippersfan86]

When i first saw him play in his rookie year, I thought he had the best shooting motion I've ever seen.

It truly is a work of art. Look at the video I attached. Textbook form and release.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

I was hoping he could be at least a Danny Green type but honestly I've given up on the guy because his defense. 0.1 VORP in nearly 1300 minutes this season. 3 and d guys are cool but 3 and no d guys are just frustrating to watch. He adds zero value outside of shooting.

In the last clippers/Lakers game, Shamet was a -17 BPM in like 8 minutes. During march, doc had him in the dog house at 13 mins a game if you take away the 40 point warriors blowout. There's a reason 76ers gave up on him so quickly. Cut your losses with this guy before its too late, he will get exposed vs elite teams in big games.

[Clippersfan86]

I was hoping he could be at least a Danny Green type but honestly I've given up on the guy because his defense. 0.1 VORP in nearly 1300 minutes this season. 3 and d guys are cool but 3 and no d guys are just frustrating to watch. He adds zero value outside of shooting.

In the last clippers/Lakers game, Shamet was a -17 BPM in like 8 minutes. During march, doc had him in the dog house at 13 mins a game if you take away the 40 point warriors blowout. There's a reason 76ers gave up on him so quickly. Cut your losses with this guy before its too late, he will get exposed vs elite teams in big games.

LMAO. Dude relax. Your onslaught on Clippers players to prop up Kawhi is too much. He's a 2nd year player. BPM is a pretty terrible stat. His defense is improving a ton, watch film on his defense on Klay/Curry in the playoffs last year BEFORE you followed Kawhi to the Clippers. His man defense and ball denial has come a LONG way. He's 6'4 195 lbs... he needs to keep getting stronger because Doc often has him playing SF in the 3 guard lineup, which has a lot to do with his diminished impact on that end. If he can become a 15-20 ppg scorer and playmaker... all he needs is just average defense, which IMO he will have.

Philly absolutely did NOT trade him for Tobias because they WANTED to. In fact he was beloved in Philly and they were sad to let him go. Clippers FO just worked that deal. Also he adds little value outside of shooting because Doc has used him TERRIBLY (he's said this in interviews a bunch) and basically has him as a corner 3 point shooter who's getting reduced touches and very little involvement in the offense.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

LMAO. Dude relax. Your onslaught on Clippers players to prop up Kawhi is too much. He's a 2nd year player. BPM is a pretty terrible stat. His defense is improving a ton, watch film on his defense on Klay/Curry in the playoffs last year BEFORE you followed Kawhi to the Clippers. His man defense and ball denial has come a LONG way. He's 6'4 195 lbs... he needs to keep getting stronger because Doc often has him playing SF in the 3 guard lineup, which has a lot to do with his diminished impact on that end. If he can become a 15-20 ppg scorer and playmaker... all he needs is just average defense, which IMO he will have.

Philly absolutely did NOT trade him for Tobias because they WANTED to. In fact he was beloved in Philly and they were sad to let him go. Clippers FO just worked that deal. Also he adds little value outside of shooting because Doc has used him TERRIBLY (he's said this in interviews a bunch) and basically has him as a corner 3 point shooter who's getting reduced touches and very little involvement in the offense.

Shamet isn't ever going to get credit for clippers success, so I have no reason to just randomly bash him. I want to tell you the truth, sometimes the truth hurts I guess. I'm giving you my opinion on him. Would you rather me lie to you and say I thought he was good? At least I'm giving you a heads up on what I've seen.

Danny Green is posting a 1.1 VORP, 2.2, 1.1, 1.3 his last 4 years and he is never even close to a negative BPM. This is what I want to see from Shamet. Instead we have gotten a career 0.3 VORP from Shamet in 3000 minutes and a -1.6 BPM

When has Shamet ever done anything? Warriors put up a 122 ****ing offensive rating vs clippers in playoffs last year, so enough bringing that up. Doc had Shamet in the doghouse when he got his roster healthy. Clippers blew out rockets and thunder when Shamet was a bench warmer. I don't think clippers need any scorers either, they have plenty. I would much rather clippers just give that Johnathan Motley guy a chance (8.1 BPM in limited mins).

[Clippersfan86]

Shamet isn't ever going to get credit for clippers success, so I have no reason to just randomly bash him. I want to tell you the truth, sometimes the truth hurts I guess. I'm giving you my opinion on him. Would you rather me lie to you and say I thought he was good? At least I'm giving you a heads up on what I've seen.

Danny Green is posting a 1.1 VORP, 2.2, 1.1, 1.3 his last 4 years and he is never even close to a negative BPM. This is what I want to see from Shamet. Instead we have gotten a career 0.3 VORP from Shamet in 3000 minutes and a -1.6 BPM

When has Shamet ever done anything? Warriors put up a 122 ****ing offensive rating vs clippers in playoffs last year, so enough bringing that up. Doc had Shamet in the doghouse when he got his roster healthy. Clippers blew out rockets and thunder when Shamet was a bench warmer. I don't think clippers need any scorers either, they have plenty. I would much rather clippers just give that Johnathan Motley guy a chance (8.1 BPM in limited mins).

I think you need to stop reading boxscore metrics, and spend a little more time watching film. Just because he played very good defense on Curry/Klay for a rookie, doesn't mean he shut them down (or even should). You absolutely need a guy like Shamet in every offense now, especially when you have multiple non shooters in the lineup. Kawhi is slightly better than a league average 3 point shooter, Beverley is around 39% last few years but goes cold for months at a time and takes low volume, Zubac doesn't shoot 3's, Morris is streaky AF. Lou is league average from 3 and streaky. Green has been inconsistent this year. Every elite team has their 3 point shooting specialist who does very little else. The thing with Shamet is having the ball handling, PG experience and 40 inch vert make it to where he's more versatile than someone like Korver+Redick in his skillset.

Also the purpose of this thread isn't to say how good is he now. It's to say what's his potential upside. He's basically having league average to slightly below average impact as a 2nd year combo guard. Not a big deal, not unusual at all. Much of this would be mitigated if Doc used him in better actions and didn't play him so much at SF in the 3 guard lineups.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

I think you need to stop reading boxscore metrics, and spend a little more time watching film. Just because he played very good defense on Curry/Klay for a rookie, doesn't mean he shut them down (or even should). You absolutely need a guy like Shamet in every offense now, especially when you have multiple non shooters in the lineup. Kawhi is slightly better than a league average 3 point shooter, Beverley is around 39% last few years but goes cold for months at a time and takes low volume, Zubac doesn't shoot 3's, Morris is streaky AF. Lou is league average from 3 and streaky. Green has been inconsistent this year. Every elite team has their 3 point shooting specialist who does very little else. The thing with Shamet is having the ball handling, PG experience and 40 inch vert make it to where he's more versatile than someone like Korver+Redick in his skillset.

Also the purpose of this thread isn't to say how good is he now. It's to say what's his potential upside. He's basically having league average to slightly below average impact as a 2nd year combo guard. Not a big deal, not unusual at all. Much of this would be mitigated if Doc used him in better actions and didn't play him so much at SF in the 3 guard lineups.

I've watched him play and I'm usually yelling at him for his defense. He has extremely poor man to man defense and gets lit up on a consistent basis. Can you give me other good role players who are posting advanced stats like his? All those minutes Shamet has got because injurys and he did nothing with it. Was sent to the dog house by March when George returned and Clippers defense suddenly looked great without him.

Clippers are a title contender and don't have time for "projects" who may be a good player in 2025. If you want a title this year, you put Shamet in the doghouse just like he was in march.

Danny Green's first full year as a rotation player in 2012: 3.0 BPM and 1.9 VORP in 1522 minutes

Shamet 1294 minutes -1.6 BPM and 0.1 VORP

Green is +1.8 VORP and only played 228 more mins, that's very inexcusable.

As far as 3 point shooting, just let Paul George take 6 or 7 three point shots a game, kawhi 2 or 3, Lou 2 or 3, Beverly 1 or 2, Morris 2 or 3. That's plenty, its not a big enough weakness to put out a defensive liability like Shamet. Its already bad enough clippers got Lou Williams defense out there. You put Lou/Shamet out there in a playoff series, you're handcuffing your team on defense.

[ArbitraryWater]

The Clippers have by FAR the best team in the NBA, its a joke honestly.

Warriors all over, just cause teams like OKC and NYK gift them players, and some take huge pay-cuts.

They‘d still be sick without those gifts.

[DJMcDonald]

The Clippers have by FAR the best team in the NBA, its a joke honestly.

Warriors all over, just cause teams like OKC and NYK gift them players, and some take huge pay-cuts.

They‘d still be sick without those gifts.

Setting up the narrative already? Yikes. Lakers are stacked, deal with it.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Loss vs Lakers: Shamet was a -17.0 BPM

Loss vs 76ers: Shamet was a -2.3 BPM

Loss vs Nuggets: Shamet was a -13.0 BPM

Loss vs Jazz: Shamet was a -10.9 BPM

In 4 these games vs elite teams, Shamet had a total of -43.2 BPM

Yes, he gets picked on.

So, is your mancrush on Shamet strong enough to sacrifice the clippers from ever winning a title for the rest of your life?

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Setting up the narrative already? Yikes. Lakers are stacked, deal with it.

LeBron himself is scared shitless of Kawhi Leonard. What makes you think LeBron fans wouldn't be as well?

[Clippersfan86]

Loss vs Lakers: Shamet was a -17.0 BPM

Loss vs 76ers: Shamet was a -2.3 BPM

Loss vs Nuggets: Shamet was a -13.0 BPM

Loss vs Jazz: Shamet was a -10.9 BPM

In 4 these games vs elite teams, Shamet had a total of -43.2 BPM

Yes, he gets picked on.

So, is your mancrush on Shamet strong enough to sacrifice the clippers from ever winning a title for the rest of your life?

Nobody on this forum has a bigger mancrush than you. LITERALLY every single post you've made (yes, all 653) is related to finding a way to prop up Kawhi, while disparaging everyone else. It caused you to get run off RGM too. I don't have a "crush", I'm a 21 year fan of a TEAM, not an individual man. I'm not sure what Kawhi did to trigger this stalkeresque obsession from you that plays out like a legitimate mental illness. I don't mean to be a dick man, but enough is enough. Try for once to post something SOMEWHAT objective or logical. PS... BPM is one of the worst stats in basketball. BPM says Gary Payton was a league average defender with a score of exactly 0 for his career for example. Also your other favorite VORP is deeply flawed, limited as well.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Nobody on this forum has a bigger mancrush than you. LITERALLY every single post you've made (yes, all 653) is related to finding a way to prop up Kawhi, while disparaging everyone else. It caused you to get run off RGM too. I don't have a "crush", I'm a 21 year fan of a TEAM, not an individual man. I'm not sure what Kawhi did to trigger this stalkeresque obsession from you that plays out like a legitimate mental illness. I don't mean to be a dick man, but enough is enough. Try for once to post something SOMEWHAT objective or logical. PS... BPM is one of the worst stats in basketball. BPM says Gary Payton was a league average defender with a score of exactly 0 for his career for example. Also your other favorite VORP is deeply flawed, limited as well.

There's LeBron fans that have thousands and thousands of posts on just LeBron. I'm no different, just with Kawhi. At least we are posting about all-time greats. You're posting about guys who shouldn't even be in the NBA. That's basically the equal of some guy posting threads on Jimmer Freddette upside in his 2nd or 3rd year in the league? Do you see the problem with that? Being a fan of clippers for 17 years is what can lead to a mental illness, instant 2nd round exit every year. Be glad Kawhi came to save your pathetic franchise, you should worship the ground he walks on. Or are you going to brag about your 1st round exit some more? when you let the other team have a 122 offensive rating? Like you were doing on realgm last year lol. I would deeply pity you if Kawhi didn't save your team.

BPM/VORP isn't going to have 100% accuracy but its generally accurate. Guys who have the amount of VORP as Shamet in their first 3000 minutes and go on to have successful careers? Name me 1 or 2 examples and you will shut my mouth. Until then, keep being delusional and have fun with that.

[RRR3]

Smack slurp Kawhi smack slurp
:biggums:

[HBK_Kliq_2]

:biggums:

Are you Clyde from realgm? I recognized the avatar. Next time I see you I will remember to baptize you in a Kawhi debate. Or do you want me to discuss Shamet's "career"? HAHAHAHHA

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Conclusion to the thread: BPM/VORP is worthless and Shamet is the next Gary Payton

[Clippersfan86]

Conclusion to the thread: BPM/VORP is worthless and Shamet is the next Gary Payton

Nobody is saying that. I'm giving an example of a very flawed stat. They wouldn't be categorized as worthless, just very limited. Box score metrics are considered an inferior product in most cases, or bare minimum a very small piece of the picture. You never gave your own view of Shamet's comp or upside (which is what the topic was for). Literally you just said to give up on a 2nd year guard because Kawhi is great blah blah, Danny Green etc.

[RRR3]

Are you Clyde from realgm? I recognized the avatar. Next time I see you I will remember to baptize you in a Kawhi debate. Or do you want me to discuss Shamet's "career"? HAHAHAHHA
**** no, I'm not a Warriors fan. I have the same name on RGM, I just don't post much.

[Clippersfan86]

**** no, I'm not a Warriors fan. I have the same name on RGM, I just don't post much.

You're a Heat fan if I recall right? If I am remembering you had a Mario Chalmers avy forever? Or is my memory failing?

[RRR3]

You're a Heat fan if I recall right? If I am remembering you had a Mario Chalmers avy forever? Or is my memory failing?
Yeah I am. I love Chalmers.

[Bronbron23]

great shooter and he competes and works hard but theres nothing special about his game. His game is perfect for this era where you cant get anywhere close to shooters. He could be a nice 3rd option in this era. Maybe a great 6th man in era's where you could actually play defense.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Nobody is saying that. I'm giving an example of a very flawed stat. They wouldn't be categorized as worthless, just very limited. Box score metrics are considered an inferior product in most cases, or bare minimum a very small piece of the picture. You never gave your own view of Shamet's comp or upside (which is what the topic was for). Literally you just said to give up on a 2nd year guard because Kawhi is great blah blah, Danny Green etc.

I never saw a player's BPM/VORP and thought it was not even close to being accurate, its generally not that bad of a stat. You're just going to think I'm insulting him. I think Shamet is an excellent shooter. I just don't think he offers much at all besides that. Paxson/Kerr type I can see.

You're better off praising the guy who is putting up GOAT level numbers in his prime and put your franchise on the map (kawhi). Maybe one day you will appreciate kawhi.

Oh well, it is what it is.

[SATAN]

HBK is a terrible poster. Absolutely boring gimmick.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

HBK is a terrible poster. Absolutely boring gimmick.

A guy named Satan doesn't approve of me, how will I sleep at night.

[Clippersfan86]

I never saw a player's BPM/VORP and thought it was not even close to being accurate, its generally not that bad of a stat. You're just going to think I'm insulting him. I think Shamet is an excellent shooter. I just don't think he offers much at all besides that. Paxson/Kerr type I can see.

You're better off praising the guy who is putting up GOAT level numbers in his prime and put your franchise on the map (kawhi). Maybe one day you will appreciate kawhi.

Oh well, it is what it is.

Kawhi is our superstar and guy. I value him higher. I'm just asking about a role players here. Not sure why this relates to not appreciating Kawhi.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Kawhi is our superstar and guy. I value him higher. I'm just asking about a role players here. Not sure why this relates to not appreciating Kawhi.

That's your shtick it seems like.

- threads about lou, Harrell, Shamet
- thread about Kawhi not playing as much mins as LeBron

Downplaying Kawhi is what it sounds like. I still think you're generally a good poster man, not a big deal to disagree on Shamet. We both like clippers at the end of the day, so maybe you should show me a little more respect.

[Clippersfan86]

That's your shtick it seems like.

- threads about lou, Harrell, Shamet
- thread about Kawhi not playing as much mins as LeBron

Downplaying Kawhi is what it sounds like. I still think you're generally a good poster man, not a big deal to disagree on Shamet. We both like clippers at the end of the day, so maybe you should show me a little more respect.

My Kawhi minutes thread was actually to point out how impressive he's been despite only 32 mpg. I respect everyone here just fine, but I'd appreciate you make an honest effort to care about the rest of the team and learn about them if you're here for Kawhi.

[iamgine]

It truly is a work of art. Look at the video I attached. Textbook form and release.

I didn't know who he were. Nor did I care about some scrub rookie. But I distinctly remember thinking that.