would the 95 magic be the best team in the east now?

[Bronbron23]

personally i think they'd crush everyone. They basically had a greek freek and a paul george or jayson tatum type surround by shooters. They'd easily beat everyone in the west other than clippers and lakers and theyd be good series. Theyd have nobody for lebron but shaq would absolutely bully davis. As for the clippers they'd probably be to small.

[86Celtics]

personally i think they'd crush everyone. They basically had a greek freek and a paul george or jayson tatum type surround by shooters. They'd easily beat everyone in the west other than clippers and lakers and theyd be good series. Theyd have nobody for lebron but shaq would absolutely bully davis. As for the clippers they'd probably be to small.

They'd be heavy favourites for the title.

[Axe]

A sweep in the finals despite having the hca is kinda embarrassing but it wouldn't mean they won't have any chances tho

[jayfan]

Yes.



.

[Roundball_Rock]

Possibly. They were ahead of their time with surrounding Shaq with shooters plus they had a second superstar in Penny. Their issues were mediocre at best defenses (13th of 27 in 95') and choking (swept by a 47 win team in the first round in 94' as Rik Smits reduced Shaq to a shell of himself and swept in the finals in 95'--96' you can excuse given the comp and Grant's injury). The Rockets weren't some juggernaut. They barely got out the first round in 95' and then had a 7 game scrape in the second round. In 94' they had 7 games in the finals and second round. So the Knicks, Jazz, Suns (twice) took them to the brink of elimination but Orlando couldn't win a single game against them?

[Phoenix]

That was an interesting team. Every time they lost they didnt go down swinging, getting swept instead. They were probably the most talented team Houston played during their back to back( and the most talented Chicago played between 96 and 98) but as noted, also the only team that was swept by them. May have been an interesting series if Nick Anderson doesnt do the all time free throw chokejob, but that kind of underlined their issues in terms of sealing the deal at that level. If Shaq had stayed and Penny remained healthy I always assumed by 98 they would have learned how to win as others had before them. Phil Jackson would have done alot for that team as he did for the Lakers a few seasons later.

[Real Men Wear Green]

No one would have an answer for Shaq or even have seen anything like Shaq so that would be major. The Magic could be victimized by the modern offense's barrage of threes though. They might not be able to deal with it. No way to be sure but I'd bet against them if it's just them as they are. The game changed because the three point spam works and if you can't match it you lose. But if Penny, Scott and Anderson could adjust to the modern style it's a different story.

[Roundball_Rock]

That was an interesting team. Every time they lost they didnt go down swinging, getting swept instead. They were probably the most talented team Houston played during their back to back( and the most talented Chicago played between 96 and 98) but as noted, also the only team that was swept by them. May have been an interesting series if Nick Anderson doesnt do the all time free throw chokejob, but that kind of underlined their issues in terms of sealing the deal at that level. If Shaq had stayed and Penny remained healthy I always assumed by 98 they would have learned how to win as others had before them. Phil Jackson would have done alot for that team as he did for the Lakers a few seasons later.


Yeah they are a conundrum and a prime example of how on paper doesn't always work on the court. They underachieved and Shaq and Penny didn't get along.

They didn't seem to have any fight. They never rallied against the 47 win Pacers where Smits held Shaq to a fraction of his normal numbers. They never rallied after Anderson choked. They folded after Grant got hurt in 96'. Then after Shaq left they become mediocre as Penny regressed a lot as a #1 option in 97'. They just seemed to lack heart and leadership.

[Phoenix]

No one would have an answer for Shaq or even have seen anything like Shaq so that would be major. The Magic could be victimized by the modern offense's barrage of threes though. They might not be able to deal with it. No way to be sure but I'd bet against them if it's just them as they are. The game changed because the three point spam works and if you can't match it you lose. But if Penny, Scott and Anderson could adjust to the modern style it's a different story.


I dont know.... I feel like Scott and Anderson provide a decent amount of spacing. 3D was hitting 42% on 6-7 threes. Nick Anderson 39-40% on 5-6 threes. No-one is going to blink an eye at that after witnessing Steph Curry or even Harden, but with todays spacing they can probably bump those numbers up a bit. Penny wasnt a shooter per se but he'd probably be good for a couple today if he made it a bigger part of his game. And there's even less answers for Shaq now then in 95. I mean who has the size? Embiid? Getting caught on switches would be a concern but it's not like Joel can switch on a guard if need be. We've seen him get twisted into a pretzel in those situations. Same for Gobert. We've all seen the gif where Steph spins him in a circle. You gonna have to live with that if Shaq is in there. But he's an automatic 2 within 5 feet today....or hes kicking out to a couple of 40% 3ball guys in Anderson and Scott.

They'd be fine. I'm more concerned about their mental makeup than their ability to adapt to modern ball. Look at the Lakers this year. It's not like they have any snipers on the team, and they're first in the west. They have alot of size though. And I feel like the Magic present a good combo of size and enough shooting.

[Phoenix]

Yeah they are a conundrum and a prime example of how on paper doesn't always work on the court. They underachieved and Shaq and Penny didn't get along.

They didn't seem to have any fight. They never rallied against the 47 win Pacers where Smits held Shaq to a fraction of his normal numbers. They never rallied after Anderson choked. They folded after Grant got hurt in 96'. Then after Shaq left they become mediocre as Penny regressed a lot as a #1 option in 97'. They just seemed to lack heart and leadership.

Yeah, it's that 'intangibles' thing that you cant put on paper that they didnt have. Talent and firepower was never their problem. I think they needed a little more time in the oven. If they hadnt figured it out by 98 I reckon they were just destined to be a 'could have been'.

[SouBeachTalents]

Shaq would obviously be a matchup nightmare, and I wouldn't even disagree that they would win the title, but crush everyone, heavy favorites to win it all? That's some straight up hyperbole. They needed 7 games to beat the Reggie/Smits Pacers, a team clearly worse than the Bucks/Lakers/Clippers, then got swept in the Finals with HCA. They'd obviously be title contenders, but some juggernaut on a level above everyone else in the league? Nah

[Bronbron23]

Shaq would obviously be a matchup nightmare, and I wouldn't even disagree that they would win the title, but crush everyone, heavy favorites to win it all? That's some straight up hyperbole. They needed 7 games to beat the Reggie/Smits Pacers, a team clearly worse than the Bucks/Lakers/Clippers, then got swept in the Finals with HCA. They'd obviously be title contenders, but some juggernaut on a level above everyone else in the league? Nah

well i said crush everyone in the east but even that may be an exaggerated. I said lakers and clippers could give them problems. Theyd have no answer for bron or kawhi

[Roundball_Rock]

Yeah, it's that 'intangibles' thing that you cant put on paper that they didnt have. Talent and firepower was never their problem. I think they needed a little more time in the oven. If they hadnt figured it out by 98 I reckon they were just destined to be a 'could have been'.

Probably--if they stayed together and healthy. Kobe gets most of the blame in LA but it does say something that Shaq had similar issues with Penny as well.


They needed 7 games to beat the Reggie/Smits Pacers, a team clearly worse than the Bucks/Lakers/Clippers, then got swept in the Finals with HCA

Yeah, and they were swept by the same team despite having HCA the prior year. So they went 4-6 in the playoffs against Reggie/Smits in 94' and 95' yet would crush teams with LeBron/Davis, Kawhi/PG, Giannis and co., etc. today?

Even Walker/Tatum/Brown/Hayward is better than what Indiana had in terms of talent and Boston may not even get out the first round.

[Phoenix]

I seem to recall Shaq having issue with Wade by the end as well, even though I recall him saying it was Wade's team when he joined in 04( maybe because he found him there). I think Shaqs main issue was that the star guard sidekick always ended up eclipsing him in popularity. Nobody roots for goliath sort of thing...

[Whoah10115]

They were young, so the mentality can evolve, certainly improve. They'd 100% had been in the Finals without the Bulls, and that's a series against Seattle.

I don't think Shaq improved much as an individual, but he improved his mentality, tho mostly with Phil. I say it often but he's a guy who will always get his points, regardless of his performance. It's why he's got no chance at top 10 for me.

That said, he's all-time great and is unstoppable. Penny is the best PG in the game if he's playing today. He was that good. I think Scott would be better off the bench and add a better defender at the 3. Scott didn't do much else.

But they'd be heavy favorites, no doubt. They were favorites back then. And I don't see these teams being any less weak-minded.

[Roundball_Rock]

I think Shaqs main issue was that the star guard sidekick always ended up eclipsing him in popularity. Nobody roots for goliath sort of thing...

Good point on popularity being a factor and how people don't identify with Goliath the same was as with mid-sized or small (by NBA standards :oldlol: ) perimeter players. The Penny thing must have hit home particularly hard. Shaq was hyped like Zion is today. Shaq became the second biggest draw behind MJ as a rookie. Then Penny comes along, gets a puppet character voiced by Chris Rock, gets declared the next MJ (along with Hill) and eclipses him.

[Shogon]

The 95 Magic were the most talented team in 1995... they were just immature and lost because of the immaturity. They were undoubtedly better than those Rockets. They just folded under the pressure of the Finals. They should have won that series and if they played it away from a playoffs format I believe they would have. It was the same with the 2009 Magic. Better team than those Lakers that lost because of immaturity and inexperience. Courtney Lee chokes a gimme layup and Dwight Howard bricks like 4 free throws in the closing moments of another game... and that's the difference between leading 3 to 1 and being down 3 to 1.

****.

Stop reminding me of these things.

****!!

****!!

[SouBeachTalents]

The 95 Magic were the most talented team in 1995... they were just immature and lost because of the immaturity. They were undoubtedly better than those Rockets. They just folded under the pressure of the Finals. They should have won that series and if they played it away from a playoffs format I believe they would have. It was the same with the 2009 Magic. Better team than those Lakers that lost because of immaturity and inexperience. Courtney Lee chokes a gimme layup and Dwight Howard bricks like 4 free throws in the closing moments of another game... and that's the difference between leading 3 to 1 and being down 3 to 1.

****.

Stop reminding me of these things.

****!!

****!!
So you actually expected the Magic to win the Finals in '09?

[Shogon]

So you actually expected the Magic to win the Finals in '09?

No... I correctly predicted them to beat the Celtics in which everyone shit on me and then I precisely predicted them to lose in exactly 5 games to the Lakers.

I knew how the series would go... just like I know the Magic were the better team.

[Phoenix]

Good point on popularity being a factor and how people don't identify with Goliath the same was as with mid-sized or small (by NBA standards :oldlol: ) perimeter players. The Penny thing must have hit home particularly hard. Shaq was hyped like Zion is today. Shaq became the second biggest draw behind MJ as a rookie. Then Penny comes along, gets a puppet character voiced by Chris Rock, gets declared the next MJ (along with Hill) and eclipses him.

Shaq pretty much recruited Penny during the filming of 'Blue Chips'. Ending up the 2nd most popular guy certainly wasn't in the cards. But if you go further back, Magic was more beloved than Kareem. So even though Shaq was certainly more affable and charismatic than Cap, there's some precedence for the flashy guard sidekick being the more popular player.

[tpols]

dwight missing FT's is to be expected, it's part of his bag. every player has a weakness.

the magic were nowhere close to being a better team lmao... there's no metric, explanation, or eye test that could ever support that argument.

[ArbitraryWater]

dwight missing FT's is to be expected, it's part of his bag. every player has a weakness.

the magic were nowhere close to being a better team lmao... there's no metric, explanation, or eye test that could ever support that argument.

And yet they led games 2 and 4 before choking them.

Dwight missing what 0/4 FT‘s is NOT expected.

He was over 50% as a shooter.

Kobe‘s grand ring.

Playing terribly after G1 and needing bailouts from Courtney Lee.

[tpols]

The blazers led the warriors in almost every game in 2016. were they better than the 73 win dubs?

lmao... you know how many times a poorer team had small lead in a couple games.

[Roundball_Rock]

But if you go further back, Magic was more beloved than Kareem. So even though Shaq was certainly more affable and charismatic than Cap, there's some precedence for the flashy guard sidekick being the more popular player.

Yeah, it is ironic: people can identify more with 6'6" or 6'7" guys, as if Kobe or Penny wouldn't be the tallest guy in 99.999% of the rooms they walked in--but the visual on television is different when you have Penny standing next to Shaq who is next to Ewing or 7'4" Smits.

[ArbitraryWater]

The blazers led the warriors in almost every game in 2016. were they better than the 73 win dubs?

lmao... you know how many times a poorer team had small lead in a couple games.

Yea, and then Portland got beaten by GS‘s class.

Not by missing a gimme layup and FT‘s in another game.

Orlando was better through 4.

[Reggie43]

Shaq at his athletic peak along with Penny? Easily the best team in the East. Horace Grant being able to switch and guard perimeter players while being a defensive anchor inside would be huge for them playing in the modern Nba.

[Axe]

Could have defeated Houston in '95 but shaq choked against hakeem, although i believe the outcome would have been different if clyde didn't come to clutch city.

[ClipperRevival]

EASILY.

That 1995 Magic team was ultra talented. But one problem they had was they were just too young and not experienced enough to know how to win as a team at that time. But on paper? Off the charts. Sort of like the 1996-1998 Lakers.

[ClipperRevival]

The 95 Magic were the most talented team in 1995... they were just immature and lost because of the immaturity. They were undoubtedly better than those Rockets. They just folded under the pressure of the Finals. They should have won that series and if they played it away from a playoffs format I believe they would have. It was the same with the 2009 Magic. Better team than those Lakers that lost because of immaturity and inexperience. Courtney Lee chokes a gimme layup and Dwight Howard bricks like 4 free throws in the closing moments of another game... and that's the difference between leading 3 to 1 and being down 3 to 1.

****.

Stop reminding me of these things.

****!!

****!!

They were immature because they were all still just pups. That is EXPECTED from young, inexperienced players. This team just never got a chance to play together for a few years and get older together. Maybe 3-4 years down the line, assuming the team is intact and healthy, they might've been a dynasty.

[ImKobe]

Not better than Milwaukee. Not enough depth/shooting. I don't think they'd be nearly as good on defense or at shooting 3s.