ESPN, Bosh: Heat were a disappointment

[DoctorP]

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29399547/the-failure-success-lebron-james-era-miami-heat (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29399547/the-failure-success-lebron-james-era-miami-heat)

In a May Instagram chat (https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/chris-bosh-says-warriors-had-a-better-dynasty-than-heat-compares-miamis-crazy-four-year-run-to-a-rock-band/), Chris Bosh (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/1977/chris-bosh) gave voice to the gnawing sense that the Miami Heat (https://www.espn.com/nba/team/_/name/mia/miami-heat) of 2010 to 2014 -- a supernova of sports celebrity -- fell short of expectations. Bosh conceded the Golden State Warriors (https://www.espn.com/nba/team/_/name/gs/golden-state-warriors) had surpassed that Heat team in dynastic terms, and compared the Heat to the short-lived U.K. musical phenomenon Cream.
Bosh has not been alone. In the lead-up to Wednesday's 10-year anniversary of The Decision, a roundtable of ESPN experts (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/29385150/nba-debate-legacy-lebron-decision) debated whether the Big Three Heat underachieved. End-of-decade retrospectives about the 2010s NBA seemed to focus more on the Warriors, and even on LeBron James (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/1966/lebron-james)' transcendent run in 2016 to Cleveland's first championship in 52 years.

Some of that was our collective brain gravitating toward more recent events. Some of it was about basic longevity. The Heat's run came apart at least two or three years before they anticipated -- before LeBron even turned 30. If the Heat's on-court imprint failed to measure up to the earthquake of the team's formation, a lot of that had to do with the decline of Dwyane Wade (https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/1987/dwyane-wade)'s knees.

By the 2013 playoffs, which ended in Miami's second consecutive title, Wade's impact was scattershot. He cracked 20 points only once in the conference finals -- a seven-game slog over a 49-win Indiana Pacers (https://www.espn.com/nba/team/_/name/ind/indiana-pacers) team. His production swung wildly in Miami's epic seven-game Finals win over San Antonio. He shot horribly from the post until a 23-point performance in Game 7 that was somehow both gutty and polished. The Heat were minus-57 in that series with Wade and James on the floor. Wade showed up for the finale, but the Heat got there in large part behind James-centric lineups stacked with shooting....

[rawimpact]

Bosh trying to stay relevant, just like the majority of his career.

[DoctorP]

Bosh trying to stay relevant, just like the majority of his career.

Bosh is right , though.

[warriorfan]

In a May Instagram chat, Chris Bosh gave voice to the gnawing sense that the Miami Heat of 2010 to 2014 -- a supernova of sports celebrity -- fell short of expectations. Bosh conceded the Golden State Warriors had surpassed that Heat team in dynastic terms, and compared the Heat to the short-lived U.K. musical phenomenon Cream.

:roll::roll::roll::roll::roll:

[warriorfan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_LUnTQHV4c&app=desktop

[bullettooth]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_LUnTQHV4c&app=desktop

LOL

[warriorfan]

LOL

:roll:

[DoctorP]

:roll::roll::roll:

:lol :lol :lol

[DoctorP]

https://www.vicnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/20271013_web1_MMA-MusicofCReamPoster.jpg

[DoctorP]

https://www.udiscovermusic.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Cream-Goodbye.jpg

[Kblaze8855]

One thing I hate is that in an effort to make Lebron look bad by trying to make his teammates out to be as great as possible we kinda downplay the real Wade. People talk up 12-14 wade like he had not lost much when....05-10 or maybe even 11 Wade was such a monster. Go watch how that guy moved before the injuries. 2013 Wade is not even close to the real Wade but he gets caught up in Lebron hate so the unintended consequence is the real Wade being brought down to the old wades level.

The real Wade was right there with Lebron and Kobe. You can’t watch that slower Heatles era Wade and say that. And I wonder if that’s the Wade people are gonna remember. I hope it isn’t. 06 Wade makes that guy look like he’s playing in shin deep water.

He was still a star. But peak Wade wasn’t a star. He was downright legendary.

[DoctorP]

One thing I hate is that in an effort to make Lebron look bad by trying to make his teammates out to be as great as possible we kinda downplay the real Wade. People talk up 12-14 wade like he had not lost much when....05-10 or maybe even 11 Wade was such a monster. Go watch how that guy moved before the injuries. 2013 Wade is not even close to the real Wade but he gets caught up in Lebron hate so the unintended consequence is the real Wade being brought down to the old wades level.

The real Wade was right there with Lebron and Kobe. You can’t watch that slower Heatles era Wade and say that. And I wonder if that’s the Wade people are gonna remember. I hope it isn’t. 06 Wade makes that guy look like he’s playing in shin deep water.

He was still a star. But peak Wade wasn’t a star. He was downright legendary.

yeah, he won't be forgotten because he won a ring as a leading man in 06. In his prime. WHen he was skinny. Before the roids fd his head up, allegedly.

Wade destroyed the Pistons dynasty. Single-handedly.

[Kblaze8855]

Not forgotten but maybe like Showtime Kareem. Obviously not the best version but ESPN won’t quit showing him as that slowed down old man shooting hooks.

[D-Wait]

:roll::roll::roll::roll::roll:

Yeah, I was like how the fukk does Chris Bosh know Cream and comparing them is so out of the blue :oldlol::oldlol:

[DoctorP]

Yeah, I was like how the fukk does Chris Bosh know Cream and comparing them is so out of the blue :oldlol::oldlol:

it's a perfect comparison.

[D-Wait]

it's a perfect comparison.

Still amazed by the reference. Pretty sure 90+ percent of the league aren't into late 60s/70s rock and don't know anything about Cream.

[Indian guy]

The original prediction of Miami being this dynastic team was built on having 2 superstars (LeBron & Wade) + 1 All Star (Bosh). It didn't really materialize like that because Wade was no longer a superstar after 2011. His knees just didn't hold up. Bosh's being a clown by calling them a disappointment though. 4 straight finals and 2 rings is resounding success.

[DoctorP]

Still amazed by the reference. Pretty sure 90+ percent of the league aren't into late 60s/70s rock and don't know anything about Cream.

Bosh is not your typical baller dude.

[Phoenix]

Relative to expectation in 2010, yeah. If they had gone 3/4 winning in 11 I would say they didn't underachieve and would have accomplished a 3peat which Golden State failed to do, even though it was more of a slog along the way. That said, championships aren't handed out like free candy and they were more successful than alot of other teams, past and present, even if it didn't completely materialize as predicted.

[Roundball_Rock]

He is right but no one could have predicted Wade's injury issues would have caused him to decline prematurely and that Bosh would only be 15/7/1 in the playoffs (showing a notable decline from 2011 to 2014 as well).


One thing I hate is that in an effort to make Lebron look bad by trying to make his teammates out to be as great as possible we kinda downplay the real Wade. People talk up 12-14 wade like he had not lost much when....05-10 or maybe even 11 Wade was such a monster. Go watch how that guy moved before the injuries. 2013 Wade is not even close to the real Wade but he gets caught up in Lebron hate so the unintended consequence is the real Wade being brought down to the old wades level.

Great points. Yeah, it is amusing that people act like post-prime Wade was the same Wade and that does have the consequence of hurting the real Wade's stock. It is funny, the same people who say Wade was Wade in 2014 will turn around and say Wade fell off a cliff between June 2014 and October 2014. :lol


yeah, he won't be forgotten because he won a ring as a leading man in 06. In his prime.

He won't be forgotten but he could slide back to 30th instead of being, say, 22nd, as a result of the anti-LeBron agenda. Wade was once compared to Kobe but now he is lumped in with Kyrie Irving by the anti-LeBron crowd.

[Phoenix]

One thing I hate is that in an effort to make Lebron look bad by trying to make his teammates out to be as great as possible we kinda downplay the real Wade. People talk up 12-14 wade like he had not lost much when....05-10 or maybe even 11 Wade was such a monster. Go watch how that guy moved before the injuries. 2013 Wade is not even close to the real Wade but he gets caught up in Lebron hate so the unintended consequence is the real Wade being brought down to the old wades level.

The real Wade was right there with Lebron and Kobe. You can’t watch that slower Heatles era Wade and say that. And I wonder if that’s the Wade people are gonna remember. I hope it isn’t. 06 Wade makes that guy look like he’s playing in shin deep water.

He was still a star. But peak Wade wasn’t a star. He was downright legendary.

? Most people seem to acknowledge that Wade from 2012-2014 was far from his 2005-2011 peak. On this forum alone there's a running thread about 'Wade being a 15.9 scorer in 2013' or whatever.

[DoctorP]

Wade.

Single-handedly.

Destroyed.

Pistons.

Dynasty.

HA.

https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2005-05/26/xin_110502261148277097624.jpg

PRIME FLASH

[Kblaze8855]

I don’t consider trolls people. Like the 1-9 Jordan arguments. Those aren’t real fan arguments so I don’t consider them part of general opinion. People....normal people....really act like the Wade who deferred for years was something like the real Wade. Peak Wade May well have been the first option on a team with Lebron.

[Phoenix]

I don’t consider trolls people. Like the 1-9 Jordan arguments. Those aren’t real fan arguments so I don’t consider them part of general opinion.

Works for me.

[Whoah10115]

Kblaze is right.

Bosh isn't wrong tho. Cream reference isn't exact by any means. They were short-lived and there was a lot that went into why the Heat didn't win more than two, but apart from that win steak they were never consistently as good as they should have been.

Prime Wade can compare to LeBron. LeBron the better overall player, but Wade is the greater scorer and would have been fun.

[Phoenix]

The 2011 team lacked depth but that was the closest point we ever saw to all three at their best. Lebron was better in 2012 and 2013 but that was balanced by Wade not being as good those seasons. Bosh has become a bit of a scapegoat ( in all of these scenarios that third guy after Lebron and star #2 has the biggest adjustment), but he was importantly defensively for that squad and had to make the biggest sacrifice to his game. Wade had the ability to move more off-ball and be as effective as his knees allowed him to be. Bosh had to basically reinvent himself offensively as a stretch/spot up 4. I mean look at this performance against the Bulls in 11:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkifS6KOuTU

That was kind of a breakout moment for him that first season but we didn't see much of it after that year. Wade was subpar that series and without Bosh picking up the slack the Heat may have lost that one.

[Bronbron23]

He is right but no one could have predicted Wade's injury issues would have caused him to decline prematurely and that Bosh would only be 15/7/1 in the playoffs (showing a notable decline from 2011 to 2014 as well).



Great points. Yeah, it is amusing that people act like post-prime Wade was the same Wade and that does have the consequence of hurting the real Wade's stock. It is funny, the same people who say Wade was Wade in 2014 will turn around and say Wade fell off a cliff between June 2014 and October 2014. :lol



He won't be forgotten but he could slide back to 30th instead of being, say, 22nd, as a result of the anti-LeBron agenda. Wade was once compared to Kobe but now he is lumped in with Kyrie Irving by the anti-LeBron crowd.

Wade not being prime wade is a weak argument to be honest. Its not like the teams bron lost to in miami were loaded with players in their prime. Jason terry wasnt in his prime and is a weak second option even if he was. The 14 the spurs were old as hell with kawhi as a puppy. They didnt even have a first option that scored more than 20.

Its just excuses. The heat were good enough to win those series and for whatever reason they didnt. Unfortunately the Responsibility goes on the leader and coach thats just how it is even though it may not necessarily be true

[Roundball_Rock]

Wade not being prime wade is a weak argument to be honest.

It wasn't just Wade. Bosh also underperformed relative to expections circa July 2010. If Bosh stepped up as Wade declined it would have been different but he declined in tandem with Wade.

[tpols]

Wade was still leading teams to the playoffs years after the big 3 heat. And they lost the year he was still a peak peak superstar. (2011)

The real issue is him and Lebron were a poor fit. The team had better +/-'s with an old ray allen in his place.

And of course Bosh was relegated to a spot up 3 pt shooter when he had never been one before Miami.

They couldn't fullfill dynasty expectations with poor teamwork between their stars.

[Phoenix]

Wade not being prime wade is a weak argument to be honest.

Not necessarily. The first thing is that Lebron and Wade were never actually an ideal pairing. They generally had the same strengths and weaknesses. In 2011 they got out of the gate slowly but were able to build as the season went on and talent their way to the finals with 'my turn, your turn' ball. Once Wade dropped from that top 3-5 level Lebron had to pick up that extra slack on top of Bosh never really being a *consistent* third scoring option and having his own health issues. What would have been best for that team, IMO, is if Wade had maintained that 2010/2011 form and allowed Lebron to effectively play sort of a '94 super Pippen' role ( something like 24/8/7), and Bosh stay healthy and be a solid 18ppg third wheel. What they didn't count on were Wade and Bosh declining due to health after year one.

[tpols]

Not necessarily. The first thing is that Lebron and Wade were never actually an ideal pairing. They generally had the same strengths and weaknesses. In 2011 they got out of the gate slowly but were able to build as the season went on and talent their way to the finals with 'my turn, your turn' ball. Once Wade dropped from that top 3-5 level Lebron had to pick up that extra slack on top of Bosh never really being a *consistent* third scoring option and having his own health issues. What would have been best for that team, IMO, is if Wade had maintained that 2010/2011 form and allowed Lebron to effectively play sort of a '94 super Pippen' role ( something like 24/8/7), and Bosh stay healthy and be a solid 18ppg third wheel. What they didn't count on were Wade and Bosh declining due to health after year one.

How did Bosh decline due to health after year one?

Outside a small stretch in 2012 Bosh was healthy the entire tenure especially in 2013 and 2014...

people are straight making shit up now... the hindsight revisionism around this team is amazing.

They were predicted to win 4+ titles, and not lose to underdogs and get beaten by record margin.

[Phoenix]

How did Bosh decline due to health after year one?

Outside a small stretch in 2012 Bosh was healthy the entire tenure especially in 2013 and 2014...

Didn't Bosh miss some time in the 2012 playoffs? And he only played 57 games that year. When did his blood clot issue start? I may be misremembering the timeline.

In any case, I'm sure the expectation was Bosh would have been like a 18/10 third option. By the 4th season he was 16/7. I doubt that was the kind of production they expected back in 2010.

[DoctorP]

My conclusion from the Heat experiment is that it was an inconsistent mess but at it's highest point it was one of the best team peaks ever. The ESPN article says all that needs to be said, really.

[Roundball_Rock]

Wade missed significant time 3 of his first 5 years but he was durable in 09' and 10' and would turn only 29 in the 11' season. He was durable in 11' but the injuries piled up again after a three year hiatus: 17, 13, 28, 20 games missed from 2012-2015. If a player is getting hurt that often it will take a toll.

People blend Wade's 2011-2014 together, for obvious reasons, but that obscures the drop-off that occurred after 2011 and then the further drop after 2012.


In any case, I'm sure the expectation was Bosh would have been like a 18/10 third option. By the 4th season he was 16/7. I doubt that was the kind of production they expected back in 2010.

He was worse in the PO, 15/7/1 for the entire run. 14/8/1, 12/7/2, 15/6/1 from 2012-2014 after 19/9/1 in 11'.

Yeah, he missed about half the 12' playoffs.

[Kblaze8855]

Funny thing about Bosh being turned to a 3 point shooter to me is that he really.....didnt. Not for a long time at least. For the first 3 years on the Heat he made a combined 37 3s. Demar Derozan has 3 season where he made more 3s than Bosh did for 3 years combined. He didnt shoot 3s till 2014 and when asked why....he said playing around the basket makes him tired after using so much energy on defense:


"I don't bang anybody anymore," Bosh said. "It's a tired thing for me. It's not my strength and I understand that."

"Just playing at an elite level, you play better defenders," Bosh said. "It gets tiring. What they ask us to do, to blitz the screen and roll, every single one, close out and get back. I wasn't this same weight. I was already 20-30 pounds lighter than anybody else. All that stuff just takes my energy."


He just....didnt wanna play inside anymore. He went into the analytics of it later as well. Bosh decided shooting threes was better for him. But he didnt do it for 3 of the 4 years on the Heat.

[tpols]

the blood clot stuff happened after 2014 break up. Bosh was healthy their entire run outside a couple weeks in one of the years... thats about as good health as youre gonna get from most players. the main reason his numbers fell off volume wise was because he didnt get the rock all that much with wade and lebron needing to take 5+ dribbles to do anything. He actually shot on 119 ORTG in 2014 playoffs which is the best of his career and very elite. You cant really expect much more out of your third option. Who was San Antonio's third option? 11 ppg kawhi? Miami fans are greedy with the talent surplus they expect.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

He probably means a 'disappointment' for leaving a championship off the table. Mostly in part because of Lebron. Who had the WORST finals a superstar ever had.

2014 is arguable and things like 'fit' and 'playstyle' come up in arguments. Bosh being relegated to a spot-up shooter or Wade having to play more off-ball than he wanted to etc.

Beyond that? Miami won titles they were supposed to.

[Phoenix]

the blood clot stuff happened after 2014 break up. Bosh was healthy their entire run outside a couple weeks in one of the years.

His first game in 2012 according to the gamelog was christmas day. He missed a week in March and April, and between May 15th and June 3rd in the playoffs. That amounts to a couple of months worth of lost time. 'A couple weeks' you say. In the same thread where you then say people are making shit up. I know it's Lebron. Try not to get too emotional about the discussion and accuse people of doing things you're doing in the same thread.

[Roundball_Rock]

Bosh was healthy their entire run outside a couple weeks in one of the years

Which happened to be the "couple weeks" the season was on the line in the ECSF and ECF in 12' when Indiana and then Boston had them on the ropes. Maybe even the team itself was on the line. If they lost two years in a row, Riley would have had to make a big move. Other than that, no big deal...

Bosh wasn't signed to a max deal for 15/7/1. They could have signed Boozer instead, saved money for depth and gotten the same production. How does Bosh compare to some other #3 options in the playoffs (excluding the Spurs since their pecking order is murky in the early 2010's)?

Bosh (11-14') 15/7/1
Odom (08'-10') 12/9/2
Grant (91'-93') 12/8/3
Allen (08'-12') 16/4/3
Harden (11'-12') 15/5/4
Green (15'-16') 15/10/6
Klay (17'-19') 19/4/4
Worthy (84'-86') 20/5/3
Hornacek (94'-98') 14/3/4

Bosh's raw production is fine but he was getting paid a max salary to do this--their biggest problem the first year was a lack of depth. You don't need to pay a guy LeBron James' salary for 15/7/1.

[Manny98]

Yh Miami Bosh was a real disappointment, he looked like a role player in every finals

Him and Wade cost LeBron from 4 peating :facepalm

[Phoenix]

He probably means a 'disappointment' for leaving a championship off the table. Mostly in part because of Lebron. Who had the WORST finals a superstar ever had.

2014 is arguable and things like 'fit' and 'playstyle' come up in arguments. Bosh being relegated to a spot-up shooter or Wade having to play more off-ball than he wanted to etc.

Beyond that? Miami won titles they were supposed to.

Thing is had Lebron stayed, Miami could have retooled on the fly with Whiteside and Dragic and been a legit title threat for a few more years. Whiteside, Bosh, Lebron, Wade, Dragic in 2015 and 2016?

[tpols]

His first game in 2012 according to the gamelog was christmas day. He missed a week in March and April, and between May 15th and June 3rd in the playoffs. That amounts to a couple of months worth of lost time. 'A couple weeks' you say. In the same thread where you then say people are making shit up. I know it's Lebron. Try not to get too emotional about the discussion and accuse people of doing things you're doing in the same thread.

He missed 18 games total that year dude. Played in ~78/82 every other year and in every playoff game.

You said bosh fell off after year 1 due to injury... I just haven't heard that one before lol. He was perfectly healthy the final two years after he was supposedly crippled. With Wade' I've heard it, but Wade popped off in the 2012 playoffs so even that wasnt true. Hearing it applied to Bosh was just... new.

[Phoenix]

He missed 18 games total that year dude. Played in ~78/82 every other year and in every playoff game.

You said he fell off after year 1 due to injury... I just haven't heard that one before lol. With Wade' I've heard it, but Wade popped off in the 2012 playoffs so even that wasnt true. Hearing it applied to Bosh was just... new.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01.html

Am I going cuckoo, or does it say in 2011-2012 he played 57? Here's the game logs:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/boshch01/gamelog/2012/

Literally, where are you getting the info from that he missed 18 games total in 2012? He missed more than that in the regular season, and several in the playoffs.

Bosh's production declined after the first season. Regardless of the accuracy of the injury statement and timeframe, the net effect on the court is the same. Like Roundrock said, they didn't need to give a player max dollars for 16/7 and similar numbers or less in the playoffs. He actually infamously socred 0 points in game 7 of the 2013 finals. And you're saying.......this is what Miami was paying max for?

[tpols]

it was a shortened season that year... only 66 games.

[Roundball_Rock]

Thing is had Lebron stayed, Miami could have retooled on the fly with Whiteside and Dragic and been a legit title threat for a few more years. Whiteside, Bosh, Lebron, Wade, Dragic in 2015 and 2016?

They added Joe Johnson mid-season in 2016 too after Brooklyn waived him. After the season Riley spoke of retooling, how winning championships is hard and he came through in bringing talent to Miami but LeBron bounced.

LeBron probably wins with the above core (minus Bosh who would not be available for the playoffs) in 15'--his team certainly would have done better than he did in Cleveland with Smith and Mozgov as his 2nd and 3rd options in the finals--and in 16'. If this happened, it would lessen the "team hopping" criticism.

The focus has been on Bosh but Wade underperformed as well. Here is Wade compared to the "sidekick" on the other team by game score in the finals and ECF:

Wade versus Sidekicks (2011-2014 Finals/ECFs)

Deng 11.4, Wade 11.1
Wade 22.7, Terry 13.4
Rondo 18.9, Wade 15.4
Westbrook 18.9, Wade 16.4
Wade 11.7, West 11.2
Wade 14.9, Parker 11.2 (15.9 if you consider Duncan the #2)
Wade 15.7, West 11.7
Duncan 12.9, Wade 7.9

In the 2011 ECF, Wade was 6th in game score and in the 2014 finals Wade was 9th so it was a lot worse than simply "Duncan versus Wade" in the case of the 14' finals. As it stands, Wade went 4-4 on this list (3-5 if you use Duncan for 13'). 50% isn't a good average compared to the reputation "sidekick" Wade has.

[Phoenix]

it was a shortened season that year... only 66 games.

Ah ****. Ok I concede that one. :oldlol: So 9 games during the regular season. That's the equal of two weeks. And May 15th to June 3rd in the playoffs. Still not 'a couple weeks' total.

[Roundball_Rock]

Ah ****. Ok I concede that one. :oldlol: So 9 gamess during the regular season. That's the equal of two weeks. And May 15th to June 3rd in the playoffs. Still not 'a couple weeks'.

At a crucial time too. He missed all but the first game of the ECSF (played 16 minutes). The Heat lost the first two games without him to go down 2-1. Then he missed the first four games of the ECF. He came back for Game 5 but only played 14 minutes in his return. Miami went down 3-2. He played 28 minutes in Game 6 but posted only 7/6/1.

So basically, they went the entire ECSF and 6 of 7 games of the ECF without Bosh being Bosh (16/15/1 in Game 7). That was a huge deal...

[Phoenix]

They added Joe Johnson mid-season in 2016 too after Brooklyn waived him. After the season Riley spoke of retooling, how winning championships is hard and he came through in bringing talent to Miami but LeBron bounced.

LeBron probably wins with the above core (minus Bosh who would not be available for the playoffs) in 15'--his team certainly would have done better than he did in Cleveland with Smith and Mozgov as his 2nd and 3rd options in the finals--and in 16'. If this happened, it would lessen the "team hopping" criticism.



Considering he took two off the 15 Warriors in that situation, I'm more than confident in saying they win that title at the bare minimum. 2016 quite possible too. The entire trajectory of his career from 2014 to now hopping to Cleveland and then to LA would be different.

[tpols]

man you guys live in some hypothetical world...

on one hand the Heat had no chance in 2014 against the spurs, but now theyre beating the Dubs in 2015 & 2016?

:biggums:

You fellas don't live in reality.

[Phoenix]

man you guys live in some hypothetical world...

on one hand the Heat had no chance in 2014 against the spurs, but now theyre beating the Dubs in 2015 & 2016?

:biggums:

You fellas don't live in reality.

:facepalm

Did you bypass the part where I said 'retooled' with Whiteside and Dragic? Nobody is saying to take the 2014 Heat as they were into 2015 or 2016. I'm referring to the Heat with some of the additions they made in 2015 and 2016 around Wade and Bosh and had Lebron stayed. Why is that so unfathomable when Lebron took two games of the Warriors basically with Delly and Mosgov? You honestly think a Heat team with Lebron, Wade, Whiteside, and Dragic can't do better. You filter out all context because you have a predetermined conclusion you want to get to regardless.


Thing is had Lebron stayed, Miami could have retooled on the fly with Whiteside and Dragic and been a legit title threat for a few more years. Whiteside, Bosh, Lebron, Wade, Dragic in 2015 and 2016?

What are you failing to grasp, exactly?

[tpols]

Whiteside got hurt in the playoffs my man... and was always banged up. he wasn't going to be making any difference.

It's just funny how the heat were garbage in 2014 supposedly, and now they were dynasty dub level in the years after if Lebron stays?

it's just so laughably absurd... just.. lol

[Roundball_Rock]

Considering he took two off the 15 Warriors in that situation, I'm more than confident in saying they win that title at the bare minimum. 2016 quite possible too. The entire trajectory of his career from 2014 to now hopping to Cleveland and then to LA would be different.

Agreed on both counts. It is ironic. He could have stayed, won more rings and not had the "team jumper" label. Of course that one ring came for his home team so maybe he would rather have 1 as a Cav than 2 more as a Heat.


Did you bypass the part where I said 'retooled' with Whiteside and Dragic? Nobody is saying to take the 2014 Heat as they were into 2015 or 2016.

Exactly.


What are you failing to grasp, exactly?

A lot, as usual--yet he likes to call others "retarded."

[Phoenix]

Whiteside got hurt in the playoffs my man... and was always banged up. he wasn't going to be making any difference.

It's just funny how the heat were garbage in 2014 supposedly, and now they were dynasty dub level in the years after if Lebron stays?

it's just so laughably absurd... just.. lol

Heat would still get to the 2016 finals at the least with Lebron there. They got to game 7 of the semi finals. With Bron not on the Cavs, I don't see any other team stepping up in that space to prevent the Heat from getting to the finals at the least. In 2015? Like I said, look at the roster Cleveland had going to the finals. Compare to the roster the 2015 Heat could have rolled out, again with Lebron there . 2 games off the Warriors, with Lebron and Delly basically.The Heat had some injury issues, but look at the injury plagues Cavs roster that got through the east and managed to get two wins from a title. Lebron would have had more to work with than Delly and fukkin Mosgov FFS.:facepalm

[Roundball_Rock]

Heat would still get to the 2016 finals at the least with Lebron there

We just talked about the Heat playing without Bosh in the playoffs and in 15' the Cavs made the finals with Love missing the ECF and Irving playing only 2 games in the ECF yet Whiteside would kill the Heat? :oldlol: Without Whiteside the Heat would still have Wade, Johnson, and Dragic which is still much better than Smith, Mozgov, and Tristan Thompson. As you noted, that team almost made it to the ECF and if you add LeBron to it they easily make the finals.

[Phoenix]

Agreed on both counts. It is ironic. He could have stayed, won more rings and not had the "team jumper" label. Of course that one ring came for his home team so maybe he would rather have 1 as a Cav than 2 more as a Heat.



Yeah, perception-wise the Cavs ring did more for his legacy. I think he saw Miami as being a corpse after 2014 and figured 'going back home' was a good reason to leave. We're theorizing the roster in 2015 and 16 if he stayed but that alternate reality likely sets off a different chain of events in terms of free agent signings. I'm assuming Dragic ends up there regardless. Likely not Deng. It's not like he needed tons of help to at least get through the east- 2015 should have proved that.

[Roundball_Rock]

Whiteside and Johnson almost certainly are there either way. Whiteside was a G-League call up, Johnson signed after he was waived. Deng was signed to replace LeBron as the starting SF so he wouldn't be needed with LeBron there. That leaves Dragic as the question mark.

I think they still get Dragic. He was an all-NBA player who become available at a low price. It was a no brainer to add him. Maybe they get another player instead of him, but given the cheap cost, I think they still go for Dragic. Riley spoke of retooling so he had a major move or two in mind and Dragic would qualify. I don't think they run the same team back with Wade, Bosh declining and the team getting crushed in the finals.

[Hey Yo]

Wade not being prime wade is a weak argument to be honest. Its not like the teams bron lost to in miami were loaded with players in their prime. Jason terry wasnt in his prime and is a weak second option even if he was. The 14 the spurs were old as hell with kawhi as a puppy. They didnt even have a first option that scored more than 20.

Its just excuses. The heat were good enough to win those series and for whatever reason they didnt. Unfortunately the Responsibility goes on the leader and coach thats just how it is even though it may not necessarily be true
So you're saying there's no excuse for Wade not playing better defense against non-prime Terry?

You always say the Spurs were old, but how do you explain this from the article you didn't read.

In winning the title next season in one of the all-time vengeance tours, the Spurs obliterated their playoff opponents by 10.2 points per 100 possessions. Only the 2000-01 Lakers and the back-to-back Warriors title teams that included Kevin Durant (2016-18) have surpassed that figure in the past quarter century.

[Manny98]

Thing is had Lebron stayed, Miami could have retooled on the fly with Whiteside and Dragic and been a legit title threat for a few more years. Whiteside, Bosh, Lebron, Wade, Dragic in 2015 and 2016?
They couldn't even reach the playoffs in 2015 without LeBron :facepalm

[Phoenix]

They couldn't even reach the playoffs in 2015 without LeBron :facepalm

They won 37 games, one game out of 8th (Brooklyn), with Wade missing 20 games and Bosh missing 44 games. Whiteside and Wade were both available at seasons end. As was Dragic. Now add Lebron to that. I'm actually propping your idol and you can't help but play dumb.

Idiot.

[StrongLurk]

They were a disappointment because they should have been able to 3-peat from 2011-2013. I do think the 2011 team was way more flawed they people realize (were not as good as the 17/18 Warriors), but Lebron totally choked in the 2011 finals (so did Bosh). They win in 6 against Dallas if Lebron is putting up his usual 27/7/7. On top of that, they barely won the 13 chip, although I think those Spurs teams were better than people want to give them credit for.

[RRR3]

Yeah, I was like how the fukk does Chris Bosh know Cream and comparing them is so out of the blue :oldlol::oldlol:
Bosh is a big rock fan I think so it makes sense. He follows Alice In Chains on Instagram :rockon:

[Manny98]

They won 37 games, one game out of 8th (Brooklyn), with Wade missing 20 games and Bosh missing 44 games. Whiteside and Wade were both available at seasons end. As was Dragic. Now add Lebron to that. I'm actually propping your idol and you can't help but play dumb.

Idiot.
Exactly Wade couldn't ever stay healthy cuz he's made of glass and Bosh is overrated trash

LeBron would have to hard carry for them to go deep in the playoffs

[Manny98]

They were a disappointment because they should have been able to 3-peat from 2011-2013. I do think the 2011 team was way more flawed they people realize (were not as good as the 17/18 Warriors), but Lebron totally choked in the 2011 finals (so did Bosh). They win in 6 against Dallas if Lebron is putting up his usual 27/7/7. On top of that, they barely won the 13 chip, although I think those Spurs teams were better than people want to give them credit for.
No mention of Wade choking in 2014 & getting torched by Jason Terry in 2011

What about Bosh scoring 0 points in game 7 and being a complete non factor in every finals

[Phoenix]

Exactly Wade couldn't ever stay healthy cuz he's made of glass and Bosh is overrated trash

LeBron would have to hard carry for them to go deep in the playoffs

Isn't that what you stans say he does anyway? Love wasnt there for the playoffs, and Kyrie was only available for game 1 of the finals. You go on about Lebron having to carry all the time. That's your MO as a Lebron stan. How is this any different? As I said Wade, Whiteside and Dragic were available at seasons end. Unless all three of them go down to injury Lebron could have rolled with that team through the east in 2015. Look at the Cavs playoff roster that year. Lost two games in the entire eastern playoffs. Let's not act like Lebron needed an army to get through the east.

[warriorfan]

Isn't that what you stans say he does anyway? Love wasnt there for the playoffs, and Kyrie was only available for game 1 of the finals. You go on about Lebron having to carry all the time. That's your MO as a Lebron stan. How is this any different? As I said Wade, Whiteside and Dragic were available at seasons end. Unless all three of them go down to injury Lebron could have rolled with that team through the east in 2015. Look at the Cavs playoff roster that year. Lost two games in the entire eastern playoffs. Let's not act like Lebron needed an army to get through the east.

A bucks team being led by Brandon Jennings and Monta Ellis made the playoffs in the East.

[Manny98]

Isn't that what you stans say he does anyway? Love wasnt there for the playoffs, and Kyrie was only available for game 1 of the finals. You go on about Lebron having to carry all the time. That's your MO as a Lebron stan. How is this any different? As I said Wade, Whiteside and Dragic were available at seasons end. Unless all three of them go down to injury Lebron could have rolled with that team through the east in 2015. Look at the Cavs playoff roster that year. Lost two games in the entire eastern playoffs. Let's not act like Lebron needed an army to get through the east.
I don't think even LeBron would be able to drag Wade's corpse to the finals for the 5th time :(

[tpols]

A bucks team being led by Brandon Jennings and Monta Ellis made the playoffs in the East.

They've got a new angle bro...

Now if Lebron would've stayed on the Heat after the 2014 landslide, they would've ascended to 73 win Warriors status with even older versions of the big 3 and an injury riddled whiteside.

oh and goran dragic.

:roll:

[HylianNightmare]

No shit

[Phoenix]

They've got a new angle bro...

Now if Lebron would've stayed on the Heat after the 2014 landslide, they would've ascended to 73 win Warriors status with even older versions of the big 3 and an injury riddled whiteside.

oh and goran dragic.

:roll:

Who's 'they'? When the fukk have I EVER been one to spend any amount of time defending Lebron? I'm just not obsessed with tearing him down at every occasion like you. I don't give a fukk about him. I have no agenda or dog in this fight.

2015. 2 games off the Warriors with Lebron, no Love, no Kyrie, Delly, and Mosgov. How obtuse do you plan on being on this one?

[Phoenix]

A bucks team being led by Brandon Jennings and Monta Ellis made the playoffs in the East.

Exactly. That's how weak the east was at points the last decade.

[Roundball_Rock]

Who's 'they'? When the fukk have I EVER been one to spend any amount of time defending Lebron? I'm just not obsessed with tearing him down at every occasion like you. I don't give a fukk about him. I have no agenda or dog in this fight.

These people don't understand conversations. This came up in the flow of a conversation. To them everything has to be preordained via agendas. No one came into the thread talking about Whiteside and Dragic.


I don't think even LeBron would be able to drag Wade's corpse to the finals for the 5th time

Wade was 22/4/5 in 15'. He wasn't prime Wade and his efficiency plummeted in 15' relative to 14' with LeBron but he still had something in the tank.

[Manny98]

Exactly. That's how weak the east was at points the last decade.

And Wade still couldn't get them to the playoffs without LeBron :oldlol:

[Phoenix]

And Wade still couldn't get them to the playoffs without LeBron :oldlol:

He did in 2016. Second round. Game 7. Now add Lebron to that.

Good night, your trolling bores me.

[Hey Yo]

A bucks team being led by Brandon Jennings and Monta Ellis made the playoffs in the East.
Except that they weren't even on the 2015 Bucks team.

Epic fail, ya dumb **** :oldlol:

[Roundball_Rock]

Except that they weren't even on the 2015 Bucks team.

Epic fail, ya dumb **** :oldlol:

:roll:

He is going to run to one of his 50 other accounts now.

[Manny98]

He did in 2016. Second round. Game 7. Now add Lebron to that.

Good night, your trolling bores me.

Why couldn't he in 2015 :confusedshrug:

[Phoenix]

These people don't understand conversations. This came up in the flow of a conversation. To them everything has to be preordained via agendas. No one came into the thread talking about Whiteside and Dragic.





TPOLS has a history of being contrarian with anything Lebron because he's a Kobe/Curry. He just has to be opposed to him for that reason. I mean whatever, I don't really care. I just think him referring to me as 'they' like I have some history of stanning/defending Lebron hilarious.

[Roundball_Rock]

He "thinks" Ewing>LeBron and that Giannis isn't good at basketball. :lol

[Phoenix]

He "thinks" Ewing>LeBron and that Giannis isn't good at basketball. :lol

Case in point. I can't be bothered.

[tpols]

Why couldn't he in 2015 :confusedshrug:

thats what makes it even funnier.

Pheonix and Round said the 2015 Heat could beat the warriors because Irving and Love were hurt, but.... so were the Heat lol. Wade and Bosh were both hurt that year so... it wouldve been the exact same predicament. And then in 2016 whiteside got hurt in the playoffs so it just wouldve been an even older wade & lebron that got tidal wave'd by san antonio, now facing an even stronger team in the 73 win champion dubs. While he was still good, Wade could absolutely not do what irving did in those games at that age... he didnt have any playoff game that year that even remotely touched kyrie in the elimination games. So there's no way they would've won because they barely won by a hair and needed every ounce of that production.

Kyrie and Lebron actually were huge positive +/- together... they worked. Wade and Lebron? we're in the negative.

You fellas would be coughing up all your lunch money in any bet on that series.

[Phoenix]

Wade, Whiteside, and Dragic were all active at the end of the 2015 season and would have been available on the playoff roster. Draw whatever further argument or conclusions you want out of that. Me continuing this discussion is giving you the impression I'm a Lebron 'they' and that I actually care to talk about him this much. Kind of like rationalizing with you about Kobe over multiple posts. Not worth the sustained effort.

[3ball]

hahahahahaha

I told you bron fans.. quit being so biased and accept reality.... 1*/9

[tpols]

pheonix you've made a lot of contradicting points on this subject.

Just a couple weeks ago you were going on and on about how the Heat had no chance against the spurs in 2014... they were washed, had no chance, etc. We showed you the pre-series odds that showed it was a even split coin flip, but you wouldn't even accept that. You said they had no chance.

Now you come around here saying if Lebron stays with the Heat, theyre beating the Golden State Warriors dynasty.

The things you say just dont add up bro. :confusedshrug:

They had their shot at dynasty when they were young and failed miserably. 2011 tragedy. 2013 by a hair, and 2014 blowout. Overall losing record to Mavs/Spurs/Thunder. The older versions aren't going to do better than what the prime versions did. Anybody impartial could see that. It's just a ludicrous claim.

[Roundball_Rock]

hahahahahaha

I told you bron fans.. quit being so biased and accept reality.... 1*/9

3ball, hacked--posting 1-9? :lol

[Phoenix]

There's no contradiction about my points. The 2014 Heat are not the 2015 Heat. Not only because of one team having Lebron and the other team without him, but the 2015 Heat had some additions to the roster that have already been mentioned before. Hell, the 2015 Warriors *in the finals* weren't even playing as well as the 2014 Spurs *in the finals*, so what I said about the 2014 Heat in relation to the 2014 Spurs last week doesn't apply. You're gonna pretend like you don't understand that, though.

You bring up Wade, Bosh and Whiteside being injured....but I didn't include Bosh in my argument. And again, Wade, Whiteside and Dragic were all active at the end of the 2015 season. So the 'they were injured' angle doesn't work there unless you're arguing that they get injured in the playoffs. Possible? Sure, but we're going with the idea that they are available to Lebron in the playoffs.

Which takes me to the point of the 2015 Cavs. How does that team depleted of Love and Kyrie manage to take the Warriors to 6.....but it's beyond your wildest imagination that a team with Lebron, Wade, Whiteside, Dragic.....and we don't even know what other signings Riley makes to shore up the roster.... has no chance? Again, this is assuming the health of Wade and Whiteside in the playoffs. But then......the Cavs didn't have Love in the playoffs, nor Kyrie after game 1.....and they swept 2 of the 3 teams they played in the east. You know exactly what I am saying here.

I'm willing to concede that 2016 is more of a longshot but 2015? You're acting like the Warriors in 2015 and 2016 were equally as good, or that you were in a coma while Lebron on his own pretty much took 2 games off them in 15 just by chucking away to 38ppg on 39% or whatever the numbers were.

[Roundball_Rock]

The Wade injury thing always comes up for 2015, as if he wasn't hurt perennially. Wade was healthier in 2015 than he was in 2014 and as you noted he Dragic, Whiteside were all playing at the end of the season so we have to assume they play in the playoffs for discussion purposes.

[Phoenix]

The Wade injury thing always comes up for 2015, as if he wasn't hurt perennially. Wade was healthier in 2015 than he was in 2014 and as you noted he Dragic, Whiteside were all playing at the end of the season so we have to assume they play in the playoffs for discussion purposes.

Here are the final two games of the season for Wade, Dragic and Whiteside in 2015:

April 11th vs Toronto

Wade 30/5/6 50%
Whitesdie 16/18/6 (blocks) 75%
Dragic 22/5/2 50%

April 13th vs Orlando

Wade 22/5/4 38%
Whiteside 24/13/5 71%
Dragic 13/8/7 40%

They all DNP the final game as they were out of the playoff hunt behind the Nets by one game.

[tpols]

There's no contradiction about my points. The 2014 Heat are not the 2015 Heat.

The only difference between the 2014 Heat and 2015 is you're simply swapping Chris Bosh for Whiteside, and an even more beat up version of Wade.

How is that flipping the script from what happened in 2014 when they got massacre'ed?

Goran Dragic?

Every Heat fan knows Dragic was a ball handler and the furthest thing from a 4th option spacer you'd want on a Lebron team.


You're acting like the Warriors in 2015 and 2016 were equally as good

They won 67 games in 2015 which is more than the Heat ever won.

:biggums:

[Phoenix]

The only difference between the 2014 Heat and 2015 is you're simply swapping Chris Bosh for Whiteside, and an even more beat up version of Wade.

How is that flipping the script from what happened in 2014 when they got massacre'ed?

Goran Dragic?

:biggums:

Every Heat fan knows Dragic was a ball handler and the furthest thing from a 4th option spacer you'd want on a Lebron team.

The point is Lebron dragged an injury depleted Cavs team to the 2015 finals and got within 2 games of a title. You're doubling down on Wade being beat up in 2014 ( even though he was actually healthier in 2015) as somehow being worse than Lebron not having Love and Kyrie in the finals at all.

And again, the 2014 Spurs played better than the 2015 Warriors in the finals, so what happened in 2014 with the Heat team sans Whiteside, Dragic, a more injured Wade( relative to 2015) has no bearing. The 2015 Warriors weren't the 2014 Spurs in terms of how they played in the finals. And they weren't the 2016 Warriors in terms of dominance. Blatant false equivalence scheme you're running here.

[Roundball_Rock]

Here are the final two games of the season for Wade, Dragic and Whiteside in 2015:

April 11th vs Toronto

Wade 30/5/6 50%
Whitesdie 16/18/6 (blocks) 75%
Dragic 22/5/2 50%

April 13th vs Orlando

Wade 22/5/4 38%
Whiteside 24/13/5 71%
Dragic 13/8/7 40%

They all DNP the final game as they were out of the playoff hunt behind the Nets by one game.

Yup, washed! JR Smith, Mozgov, T. Thompson>Wade, Dragic, Whiteside! :lol


The point is Lebron dragged an injury depleted Cavs team to the 2015 finals and got within 2 games of a title. You're doubling down on Wade being beat up in 2014 ( even though he was actually healthier in 2015) as somehow being worse than Lebron not having Love and Kyrie in the finals at all.

It is crazy. The Cavs won 2 games in the ECF and finals with no Irving or Love yet Wade, Dragic, Whiteside would be worse?

[Phoenix]

T
They won 67 games in 2015 which is more than the Heat ever won.

:biggums:

And they lost to 2 games in the finals to Lebron without Love and Kyrie. Their regular season record bears what relevance to that point? How many times you gonna drop that emooji tonight? You just discover it?

[tpols]

There's been plenty of teams to lose 2 games to the team they ultimately beat.

It literally happens every single year.

The Paul George led Indiana Pacers took the 2014 Heat to 7. That's 3 wins.

By that logic, the Warriors would destroy them given how much better they were than Indiana.

You're literally using a TWO game sample size to make a point.

:roll:

[FKAri]

:roll::roll::roll::roll::roll:

Bosh with the 50 year old reference drop.

So if that Heat team was like Cream, what does that make the current Lakers? Blind Faith? :oldlol:

[Phoenix]

There's been plenty of teams to lose 2 games to the team they ultimately beat.

It literally happens every single year.

The Paul George led Indiana Pacers took the 2014 Heat to 7. That's 3 wins.

By that logic, the Warriors would destroy them given how much better they were than Indiana.

You're literally using a TWO game sample size to make a point.

:roll:

I'm using that to say that if Lebron was able to take 2 games off them with a serious talent imbalance, it's not hard to conclude that having Wade and co. alongside him instead of Delly and Mosgov are better odds. The Warriors should have swept the Cavs in 2015. Also, I'm using the entire eastern conference playoffs as my sample size. Two sweeps with Love missing. But you're harping on about the Heats 'injuries' for players who were available at seasons end, while sticking your fingers in your ears pretending as if the Cavs didnt have major injuries.


Again, you know exactly the point being made. I mean, I'm having to spell this out with crayons at this point.

[Vino24]

Bosh once scored 0pts in a finals game

[Bronbron23]

So you're saying there's no excuse for Wade not playing better defense against non-prime Terry?

You always say the Spurs were old, but how do you explain this from the article you didn't read.

In winning the title next season in one of the all-time vengeance tours, the Spurs obliterated their playoff opponents by 10.2 points per 100 possessions. Only the 2000-01 Lakers and the back-to-back Warriors title teams that included Kevin Durant (2016-18) have surpassed that figure in the past quarter century.


thats irrelevant. They played smart team ball. When your that old you really have no choice. Plus Pops system is the best out there. Brons teams always end up playing mostly through him which is predictable as hell. This actually wasn't the case in miami as much as Cleveland but bron still holds the ball to long. Its only been somewhat successful because hes had great teams and hes one of the best ever. If he was willing to play more within a system lead by a great coach hed have a little less stats but way more rings.

[LegendaryBaller]

Not 5, Not 6, Not 7, Not 8?!

They made themselves so obnoxious, self aggrandizing, hypothesizing non existent wins. They came off like clowns.

And yes, tremendously underwhelming given actual outcomes. Could’ve easily lost in 2012 or 2013 all things considered. And no, Wade isn’t a scapegoat. He was still a great player from 2011 - 2013 and even broken down in 2014 he wasn’t worse than late 90s Pippen overall.

[warriorfan]

Not 5, Not 6, Not 7, Not 8?!

They made themselves so obnoxious, self aggrandizing, hypothesizing non existent wins. They came off like clowns.

And yes, tremendously underwhelming given actual outcomes. Could’ve easily lost in 2012 or 2013 all things considered. And no, Wade isn’t a scapegoat. He was still a great player from 2011 - 2013 and even broken down in 2014 he wasn’t worse than late 90s Pippen overall.

Possibly the GOAT first post.

Welcome to Insidehoops.

[Hey Yo]

Bosh with the 50 year old reference drop.

So if that Heat team was like Cream, what does that make the current Lakers? Blind Faith? :oldlol:

thttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jlLBs6YawM

[Hey Yo]

thats irrelevant. They played smart team ball. When your that old you really have no choice. Plus Pops system is the best out there. Brons teams always end up playing mostly through him which is predictable as hell. This actually wasn't the case in miami as much as Cleveland but bron still holds the ball to long. Its only been somewhat successful because hes had great teams and hes one of the best ever. If he was willing to play more within a system lead by a great coach hed have a little less stats but way more rings.
How is Wade's lack of defense on Terry irrelevant?

How could "that old Spurs team with no offense" obliterate their playoff opponents by 10.2 points per 100 possessions "in the blood bath West" be irrelevant?

[Cyrus334]

He's right.

And it's funny too because the best year Lebron got out of Wade and Bosh (2011) was the year he had that embarassing performance in the Finals. Then Wade and Bosh begin to decline and then Lebron starts putting up superstar numbers lol.

[light]

The conclusion of Lowe's article is that they werent a disappointment.

Also, Wade's knees.

That basically sums up the story.

[34-24 Footwork]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_LUnTQHV4c&app=desktop

Yooo. This was great. Lol.

"Rome wasn't built in one day."

"It's gon be easy!"

[Bronbron23]

How is Wade's lack of defense on Terry irrelevant?

How could "that old Spurs team with no offense" obliterate their playoff opponents by 10.2 points per 100 possessions "in the blood bath West" be irrelevant?

because your blaming lebrons losing on the fact that his teammates declined and were not as good as the once were when in fact the mavs and spurs both had key players who also declined and not what they once were. Everyone knows lebron is the player/coach. Maybe his way isnt as conducive to winning as others. Maybe thats why the spurs and mavs got more out of there older declined players.

[Roundball_Rock]

The Paul George led Indiana Pacers took the 2014 Heat to 7. That's 3 wins.


That was in 2013. The Pacers played the Heat well--which is one reason why it is dumb to emphasize so much on one specific playoff match up. Indiana simply matched up well with the Heat. They wouldn't have that same success against OKC, Rose Bulls, Spurs, Mavs, etc.

[DoctorP]

Ro-ro-rome wasn't built in one day.
It's gonna be easy.

[Doranku]

Yooo. This was great. Lol.

"Rome wasn't built in one day."

"It's gon be easy!"

"No one ever said it's gon be easy"

"We believe it's gon be easy!"

:roll: Actually killed me.

[34-24 Footwork]

"No one ever said it's gon be easy"

"We believe it's gon be easy!"

:roll: Actually killed me.

Lol. This entire video was good. Revisionist history is a b1tch. They really thought they'd rack up easy rings.

4 years later, the Heat apparently sucked and didn't have depth. Why isn't Lebron's team EVER the favorite to win?

[warriorfan]

:roll:

That video kills me. So many classic moments. Lebron twitching nervously, “Rome wasn’t built in one day” LOL

The meltdown he had after he got his butt whipped by Jason Terry in the Finals where he tells his disappointed fans they are still going to have the same personal problems they have tomorrow. :roll: :roll:

Not four! Not five! Not six, not Seven

It’s gon be easy

:roll: :roll:

Classic

[FKAri]

thttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jlLBs6YawM

:rockon:

[GimmeThat]

well, he managed to win 2 Finals MVP in an income tax free state

[ClipperRevival]

As a Bron fan, this one hurts.

I guess the writing was on the wall. Bron had reduced a 25/10 guy to a spot up shooter so Bosh had to feel he wasn't being utilized.

Mods, please close this thread. Thanks

[ClipperRevival]

Yh Miami Bosh was a real disappointment, he looked like a role player in every finals

Him and Wade cost LeBron from 4 peating :facepalm

Seething...:yaohappy:

[AlternativeAcc.]

Translation: me and wade were massive disappointments and were carried to multiple rings by the GOAT

Bosh absolutely sucks

[Jay-B]

He’s right, heat had no business losing to the Mavericks. Should of been 3/4 IF not 4/4 championships

[Roundball_Rock]

2014 they were clearly outgunned but LeBron choking cost then 2011.

[Spurs m8]

That team massively underachieved.

Dallas


And then consider the way they were dismantled...so badly and embarrassingly in that finals series that Bron had to run away tail between legs.

[TheCorporation]

As a Bron fan, this one hurts.

I guess the writing was on the wall. Bron had reduced a 25/10 guy to a spot up shooter so Bosh had to feel he wasn't being utilized.

Mods, please close this thread. Thanks

3ball alt alert

[ImKobe]

Translation: me and wade were massive disappointments and were carried to multiple rings by the GOAT

Bosh absolutely sucks

Bosh doesn't rebound Lebron's brick and you're looking at 1 whole ring in 4 years as a superteam.

Yikes.

[Wally450]

Bosh doesn't rebound Lebron's brick and you're looking at 1 whole ring in 4 years as a superteam.

Yikes.

His return in 2012 helped them get past the Celtics too. Could be really looking at the worst case scenario if they lost in 2012.

[TheCorporation]

Since 2007 to 2010 Wade and Bosh NEVER got out of the 1st round :lol

https://s6.gifyu.com/images/separator-light1378072ed9159071.gif


Then LBJ appears and they went from Pre-Pippen, 1st round prisoner 1-9 MJ's to

Four straight Finals
2 top tier chips

:lol

Next

[Roundball_Rock]

Bosh doesn't rebound Lebron's brick and you're looking at 1 whole ring in 4 years as a superteam.

Yikes.

You can do that with almost any chip team.

[Lebron23]

Since 2007 to 2010 Wade and Bosh NEVER got out of the 1st round :lol

https://s6.gifyu.com/images/separator-light1378072ed9159071.gif


Then LBJ appears and they went from Pre-Pippen, 1st round prisoner 1-9 MJ's to

Four straight Finals
2 top tier chips

:lol

Next

This. Lebron carried that team.