Small Forwards of the 1980s. The deepest position for a decade ever?

[L.Kizzle]

Is there a deeper position from an entire decade more well rounded than the 1980s’ Small Forward spot?
I only included 1980s accomplishments and stats. So, 1970s Dr. J or 1990s Chris Mullin stats are irrelevant here.
Every player listed was either an All-Star, All-NBA or All-Defensive Team member or a Finals MVP.

I separated them into tiers and/or sections:


The ICONS
Larry Bird 1980-1989
1984 / 1985 / 1986 MVP
1984 / 1986 Finals MVP
9x All-Star (4x SF/5x PF)
9x All-NBA 1st Team (4x SF/5x PF)
3x All-Defensive 2nd Team
1982 All-Star Game MVP
1980 Rookie of the Year
Peak Season 1985 29/11/7

Julius Erving 1980-1987
1981 MVP
8x All-Star
4x All-NBA 1st Team / 1x All-NBA 2nd Team
1983 All-Star Game MVP
Peak Season 1981 25/8/4/2/2


The Hall of Famers
Adrian Dantley 1980-1989
6x All-Star
2x All-NBA 2nd Team
2x Scoring Champion
1984 Comeback Player of the Year
Peak Season 1984 30/6/4

Alex English 1980-1989
8x All-Star
3x All-NBA 2nd Team
1x Scoring Champion
1980s Leading Scorer: 21,018
Peak Season 1983 28/7/5

Bernard King 1980-1985 / 1986-1989
3x All-Star
2x All-NBA 1st Team / 1x All-NBA 2nd Team
1x Scoring Champion
1981 Comeback Player of the Year
Peak Season 1985 33/6/4

Chris Mullin 1986-1989
1989 All-Star
1989 All-NBA 2nd Team
Peak Season 27/6/5/2

Dennis Rodman 1987-1989 (Rodman was a Small Forward in his early Detroit Piston years)
1989 All-Defensive 1st Team
Peak Season 1989 9/9/1

Jamaal Wilkes 1980-1986
2x All-Star
Peak Season 1981 23/5/3

Dominique Wilkins 1982-1989
4x All-Star
1x All-NBA 1st Team / 2x All-NBA 2nd Team / 1x All-NBA 3rd Team
1x Scoring Champion
Peak Season 1986 30/8/3

James Worthy 1982-1989
1988 Finals MVP
4x All-Star
1988 Finals Stats 22/7/4


High Scoring Forwards
Mark Aguirre 1981-1989
3x All-Star
Peak Season 1984 30/6/5

Walter Davis 1979-1980 to 1988-1989
4x All-Star (1 at SF/3 at SG)
Peak Season 1980 22/4/5

Marquees Johnson 1980-1987
4x All-Star (3 at SF/1 at SG)
2x All-NBA 2nd Team
1986 Comeback Player of the Year
Peak Season 1981 20/7/5

Kelly Tripucka 1982-1989
2x All-Star
Peak Season 1983 26/5/4

Kiki Vandeweghe 1980-1989
2x All-Star (both at PF)
Peak Season at SF 1987 27/3/3


The All-Stars
John Drew 1980-1985
1980 All-Star
Peak Season 1980 20/6/1

Xavier McDaniel 1986-1989
1988 All-Star
Peak Season 1987 23/7/5

Scott Wedman 1980-1987
1980 All-Star
1980 All-Defensive 2nd Team
Peak Season 1980 19/6/2

Mike Mitchell 1980-1988
1981 All-Star
Peak Season 1981 25/6/2


The X-Factor
Cedric Maxwell 1980-1988
1981 Finals MVP
1981 Finals Stats 18/10/3

[L.Kizzle]

Interesting op but why did you omit magic in your list?

Small Forwards ...

[Axe]

Small Forwards ...
Lol ikr. Realized that immediately so i removed the question quickly.

[NBAGOAT]

point guards 10-20

[Roundball_Rock]

Either the 80's or the 10's. LeBron, KD, Carmelo, Kawhi, PG, Butler as a hybrid SF/SG, Pierce as the HOF SF's and this doesn't even count guys like Deng (a 2x all-star).

[L.Kizzle]

point guards 10-20
That is a good one, actually. I gotta look into this one right quick.

There are ten HoF SF's from the 80s.

Between 10-19 for PG's there are 4 Locks IMO: Curry, Westbrook, Paul, Parker.
5 more on the bubble guys: Rose (MVP), Kyrie, Lowry & Rondo (Championship PGs) and Lillard.
And a few more really really good players in Wall and Deron Williams.
Some guys that were a season or two wonders in IT and Teague.
Kemba is still pretty young so he can go into anyone of these categories depending how his next 5 years go.

[iamgine]

2010s

Lebron
Durant
Paul George
Kawhi
Giannis
Melo
Butler
Hayward
Draymond
Middleton
Pierce

[L.Kizzle]

Either the 80's or the 10's. LeBron, KD, Carmelo, Kawhi, PG, Butler as a hybrid SF/SG, Pierce as the HOF SF's and this doesn't even count guys like Deng (a 2x all-star).
It's very top heavy. But once you get past Bron, KD, Leonard and Melo (and PG I guess), it's downhill from there.
I can't really think of too many SF All-Stars from this past decade other than the names you mentioned. Gerald Wallace was an All-Star in the beginning of the decade (or the end of the 00's.) Other than that, I'm drawing a blank.

[NBAGOAT]

That is a good one, actually. I gotta look into this one right quick.

There are ten HoF SF's from the 80s.

Between 10-19 for PG's there are 4 Locks IMO: Curry, Westbrook, Paul, Parker.
5 more on the bubble guys: Rose (MVP), Kyrie, Lowry & Rondo (Championship PGs) and Lillard.
And a few more really really good players in Wall and Deron Williams.
Some guys that were a season or two wonders in IT and Teague.
Kemba is still pretty young so he can go into anyone of these categories depending how his next 5 years go.

it is cheating but you can technically count both nash and kidd. both made an all star game in the decade. i think kembas proven enough to be considered good but not a hofer. we'll see which young pg could have a great career like mullin. simmons is admittedly flawed and no mullin but already a 2 time all star on a possible perennial playoff team

[Shooter]

2010s

Lebron
Durant
Paul George
Kawhi
Giannis
Melo
Butler
Hayward
Draymond
Middleton
Pierce

/thread

[L.Kizzle]

it is cheating but you can technically count both nash and kidd. both made an all star game in the decade. i think kembas proven enough to be considered good but not a hofer. we'll see which young pg could have a great career like mullin. simmons is admittedly flawed and no mullin but already a 2 time all star on a possible perennial playoff team
It's not cheating at all. I put Chris Mullin, who was dropping 27/6/5 in the last year of the 80s decade.

[NBAGOAT]

It's not cheating at all. I put Chris Mullin, who was dropping 27/6/5 in the last year of the 80s decade.

then pg just looks really strong. potentially 4 guys in the top 10(nash kidd curry paul). maybe 5-6 other hofers

Edit: and i'll throw in chauncey. made all star game in 2010

[L.Kizzle]

2010s

Lebron
Durant
Paul George
Kawhi
Giannis
Melo
Butler
Hayward
Draymond
Middleton
Pierce

-All of Dray's All-Star and All-D years were at the PF position.
-Giannis literally tried out every position in his first 4 seasons (even PG.) His last 4 he's settled in at PF as Middleton (also on your list) is the SF for the Bucks now.
-Jimmy Butler switches position seems like every year.
Not nit picking. I would count them as they played SF, lol.


Besides that, the 10's SFs is very top heavy. Heavier than the 80s if Bron, KD and Kawhi are in the group. After Bron, KD, Kawhi, Melo and PG (and old PP) it goes down hill. Add in Gerald Wallace and Deng and that completes your list of All-Stars.

[MrFonzworth]

-All of Dray's All-Star and All-D years were at the PF position.
-Giannis literally tried out every position in his first 4 seasons (even PG.) His last 4 he's settled in at PF as Middleton (also on your list) is the SF for the Bucks now.
-Jimmy Butler switches position seems like every year.
Not nit picking. I would count them as they played SF, lol.


Besides that, the 10's SFs is very top heavy. Heavier than the 80s if Bron, KD and Kawhi are in the group. After Bron, KD, Kawhi, Melo and PG (and old PP) it goes down hill. Add in Gerald Wallace and Deng and that completes your list of All-Stars.

You're forgetting Iguodala. Made the ASG and later won FMVP.

[jlip]

Which 80's season would you consider the apex where you had the greatest concentration of talent at the sf position with the players at or near prime/ peak level?

[L.Kizzle]

You're forgetting Iguodala. Made the ASG and later won FMVP.

I did totally forget Iggy. It feels like I'm forgetting someone else as well.

[MrFonzworth]

I did totally forget Iggy. It feels like I'm forgetting someone else as well.

Idk if Joe Johnson counts. He's a HOFer though

[GimmeThat]

well, their points per game generally took a dip in the playoff.

[bizil]

It for sure comes down to the 80's SF and the 2010s PG's. I think I would lean to the 2010s PG's IN TERMS of peak. By that I mean the number of All Star to superstar caliber players at the 1 spot. BUT how many of those guys will end up in the HOF. Because guys DESTINED for the HOF it seemed were struck down by injury. D Rose and D Will were HUGE BLOWS!

BUT in terms of ACTUAL GREATNESS you gotta give the 80's SF the crown. That means a lot when among all those great 80's SF, many of them actually made the HOF! The 2010s PG's DON'T have enough LOCKS as of now for the HOF. Curry, CP3, Russ, Dame, and Kyrie are the only guys that I consider LOCKS for the HOF at this point. Rondo might have a shot. Lowry on the sneak tip has put together a pretty damn good resume. That ring boosts his case big time. But u have so many young PG's just putting their resumes together. So ONE DAY, I could see this era of PG's taking that greatness crown from the 80's SF. It's just TOO SOON! If Rose and D Will would have stayed healthy, then it starts getting a lil more interesting AS OF NOW! But this point, their HOF pass would have been stamped for sure if they stayed healthy.

The 2000s era SG's was ALSO a beast era though too! Kobe, Wade, AI, T Mac, Vince, Ray, and Manu are ALL in the HOF. Or will be in there one day. You had Joe Johnson too who might get in one day. If Joe Johnson is the 6th or 7th best player at the 2 spot, that's a DEEP ASS position!

[iamgine]

-All of Dray's All-Star and All-D years were at the PF position.
-Giannis literally tried out every position in his first 4 seasons (even PG.) His last 4 he's settled in at PF as Middleton (also on your list) is the SF for the Bucks now.
-Jimmy Butler switches position seems like every year.
Not nit picking. I would count them as they played SF, lol.


Besides that, the 10's SFs is very top heavy. Heavier than the 80s if Bron, KD and Kawhi are in the group. After Bron, KD, Kawhi, Melo and PG (and old PP) it goes down hill. Add in Gerald Wallace and Deng and that completes your list of All-Stars.
We including all-D? Then there's also Iguodala and Covington.

Your list includes Kiki whose all star was as PF. :confusedshrug:

Also, talking about top heavy, after Bird and Erving, who was even near their level :confusedshrug:

[Phoenix]

2000s SGs. Bizil mentioned already but warrants more than one.

Kobe
Wade
Iverson
Vince
Tmac
Ray
Manu
Joe
RIP
Redd

[MrFonzworth]

Idk. '10s SF seems to blow all of them out of the water.

LeBron
KD
Kawhi

That's 7 FMVPs right there.


Butler
PG
Carmelo
Pierce
Iguodala
Deng
Wallace

Rounds out the top 10. This is not including Giannis as well. 8 straight years the FMVP was a small forward.

[Phoenix]

Which 80's season would you consider the apex where you had the greatest concentration of talent at the sf position with the players at or near prime/ peak level?

86 season had Nique, Dantley, English all dropping 30ppg. Worthy first all star selection( Niques too). And 86 Bird at his apex. Honorable mentions were Doc who wasnt prime but still an all-star.

King was out that year. Imagine him being there dropping 30.

[Phoenix]

Idk. '10s SF seems to blow all of them out of the water.

LeBron
KD
Kawhi

That's 7 FMVPs right there.


Butler
PG
Carmelo
Pierce
Iguodala
Deng
Wallace

Rounds out the top 10. This is not including Giannis as well. 8 straight years the FMVP was a small forward.

Those FMVPs are all top heavy. Deng and Wallace are...Ok I guess. You wouldnt stack up their names to guys like King, Dantley or English in the 80s though. Same for Iggy. Pierce, while its not necessarily cheating putting him there, he was really more a 2000s guy. He didn't even make the allstar team after 2012. Butler seems to split equal seasons at SG and SF. The definitive 5 SF list for the 10s is Lebron, KD, Kawhi, PG13, Melo. Those are the names you're really dropping if someone else comes out with an 80s list with Bird, Doc, King, Dantley, Nique, English and Worthy.

Your point about 8 straight seasons of the finals MVP being a SF is taken but its 3 guys dominating that list. Its not like 5 or 6 small forwards account for it. Its Lebron with 3 and KD/Kawhi with 2 each. Iggy getting one.....ok we know the story behind that. That highlights how far above the pack the big 3 are.

[NBAGOAT]

Those FMVPs are all top heavy. Deng and Wallace are...Ok I guess. You wouldnt stack up their names to guys like King, Dantley or English in the 80s though. Same for Iggy. Pierce, while its not necessarily cheating putting him there, he was really more a 2000s guy. He didn't even make the allstar team after 2012. Butler seems to split equal seasons at SG and SF. The definitive 5 SF list for the 10s is Lebron, KD, Kawhi, PG13, Melo. Those are the names you're really dropping if someone else comes out with an 80s list with Bird, Doc, King, Dantley, Nique, English and Worthy.

Your point about 8 straight seasons of the finals MVP being a SF is taken but its 3 guys dominating that list. Its not like 5 or 6 small forwards account for it. Its Lebron with 3 and KD/Kawhi with 2 each. Iggy getting one.....ok we know the story behind that. That highlights how far above the pack the big 3 are.

Fair but 00s Sg is top heavy too. It’s not too impressive after top 5. I still think 10-20 pg is best assuming a few young guys turn out great.

[Phoenix]

Fair but 00s Sg is top heavy too. It’s not too impressive after top 5. I still think 10-20 pg is best assuming a few young guys turn out great.

I didnt drop the 00s SG list to say they were the best though, or even better than the 10s SFs. As I said, I thought they warranted a second mention in the thread. I do feel like guys like Wallace are like...eh compared to some of the other names, and Pierce on there as a mostly 00s guy who played a few decent seasons in the 10s is padding the list.

As far the 10s and 80s SF... someone like James Worthy or Bernard may be the 5th or 6th you think of.

[MrFonzworth]

Those FMVPs are all top heavy. Deng and Wallace are...Ok I guess. You wouldnt stack up their names to guys like King, Dantley or English in the 80s though. Same for Iggy. Pierce, while its not necessarily cheating putting him there, he was really more a 2000s guy. He didn't even make the allstar team after 2012. Butler seems to split equal seasons at SG and SF. The definitive 5 SF list for the 10s is Lebron, KD, Kawhi, PG13, Melo. Those are the names you're really dropping if someone else comes out with an 80s list with Bird, Doc, King, Dantley, Nique, English and Worthy.

Your point about 8 straight seasons of the finals MVP being a SF is taken but its 3 guys dominating that list. Its not like 5 or 6 small forwards account for it. Its Lebron with 3 and KD/Kawhi with 2 each. Iggy getting one.....ok we know the story behind that. That highlights how far above the pack the big 3 are.

This "deeper" debate is an interesting one, the 80s may have had more unique all stars at the position but that's not a reliable way of measuring things. If Rudy Gay snuck in a year due to a Carmelo injury or what have you then it makes the position as a collective look more accomplished. It doesn't take away or give anything to the talent though.

Where do we draw the line? If group A has a better 1-7 but group B has a better 8-10, does that make them deeper? I'm not going to pretend I know enough about Scott Wedman and start comparing his game to Luol Deng. It becomes problematic when we start comparing tier C and D players across eras, there's too many different factors to take account of for us to reliably compare across eras

[Phoenix]

This "deeper" debate is an interesting one, the 80s may have had more unique all stars at the position but that's not a reliable way of measuring things. If Rudy Gay snuck in a year due to a Carmelo injury or what have you then it makes the position as a collective look more accomplished. It doesn't take away or give anything to the talent though.

Where do we draw the line? If group A has a better 1-7 but group B has a better 8-10, does that make them deeper? I'm not going to pretend I know enough about Scott Wedman and start comparing his game to Luol Deng. It becomes problematic when we start comparing tier C and D players across eras, there's too many different factors to take account of for us to reliably compare across eras

But which group having a better 7 is debatable. So whichever one has the better 8-10, the question as to which is deeper kind of answers itself. It is hard to compare across eras for those tier C guys so best thing is comparing how good they are to their own era. Like who is relatively better? Jimmy Butler in the 10s or Worthy in the 80s? Then you're kind of splitting hairs with PG, Melo, King,Nique. Who are the Dantley and English equivalents in the 10s?

[gonzaldo]

Shaq
Hakeem
The Admiral
Ewing
Zo
Mutombo
Daugherty
Webber played as a C too
Parish

[MrFonzworth]

But which group having a better 7 is debatable. So whichever one has the better 8-10, the question as to which is deeper kind of answers itself. It is hard to compare across eras for those tier C guys so best thing is comparing how good they are to their own era. Like who is relatively better? Jimmy Butler in the 10s or Worthy in the 80s? Then you're kind of splitting hairs with PG, Melo, King,Nique. Who are the Dantley and English equivalents in the 10s?

Comparing relative success becomes problematic when there's an imbalance at the top. So we have a big 3 in LeBron, KD and Kawhi vs a big 2 in Bird and Dr J. Let's hypothetically remove LeBron from the equation to even the playing field, all the all star games and all-nba teams LeBron made are split between Iguodala and Luol Deng. Those guys then look better on paper and become the Dantley and English of the 10s when they were just an afterthought before. We can't reliably compare which era is deeper because the imbalance has an impact on the players career.

Here's another example: Kyle Lowry will go down as a hall of famer. 6x all star and NBA champion. Now if Steph Curry and Russell Westbrook played out their careers in the east, Kyle Lowry, being the same Kyle Lowry, would be a 0x all star. No longer a hall of famer. That's essentially the difference between Iguodala and Bernard King.

[Phoenix]

Comparing relative success becomes problematic when there's an imbalance at the top. So we have a big 3 in LeBron, KD and Kawhi vs a big 2 in Bird and Dr J. Let's hypothetically remove LeBron from the equation to even the playing field, all the all star games and all-nba teams LeBron made are split between Iguodala and Luol Deng. Those guys then look better on paper and become the Dantley and English of the 10s when they were just an afterthought before. We can't reliably compare which era is deeper because the imbalance has an impact on the players career.

Here's another example: Kyle Lowry will go down as a hall of famer. 6x all star and NBA champion. Now if Steph Curry and Russell Westbrook played out their careers in the east, Kyle Lowry, being the same Kyle Lowry, would be a 0x all star. No longer a hall of famer. That's essentially the difference between Iguodala and Bernard King.

We don't need to overcomplicate it to that level. Accolades take a lot of circumstances into account as you know. When do we get to the point of simply how good they were on the floor? Iggy and Bernard isn't a conversation. Frankly if Iggy doesn't win a finals MVP 'holding' Lebron to 38/13/9 I don't think he warrants a mention here. At least he's not a defining player for the position in his era. The way I see it, the 10s top 5 may have a slight edge because of the top heaviness of KD, Lebron and Kawhi. After that it's kind of a push until like the 7th guy where we then start dropping names like Pierce who again, more of a 00s guy. Deng and Wallace who, let's be frank, are good players....but they're mostly padding. If you did a rankings list mixing the 80s and 10s SFs I think the results would bear out a lot of the 80s guys come ahead once you get past your Lebron/Bird/Dr.J/KD/ Kawhi level guys. And Kawhi while peaking high is getting a serious boost off of basically 4 all-nba level seasons. He's great, but he's a weird case when discussing legacy. Then I guess it depends on how scientific we want to make comparing those tier B and C guys across eras.

[MrFonzworth]

We don't need to overcomplicate it to that level. Accolades take a lot of circumstances into account as you know. When do we get to the point of simply how good they were on the floor? Iggy and Bernard isn't a conversation. Frankly if Iggy doesn't win a finals MVP 'holding' Lebron to 38/13/9 I don't think he warrants a mention here. At least he's not a defining player for the position in his era. The way I see it, the 10s top 5 may have a slight edge because of the top heaviness of KD, Lebron and Kawhi. After that it's kind of a push until like the 7th guy where we then start dropping names like Pierce who again, more of a 00s guy. Deng and Wallace who, let's be frank, are good players....but they're mostly padding. If you did a rankings list mixing the 80s and 10s SFs I think the results would bear out a lot of the 80s guys come ahead once you get past your Lebron/Bird/Dr.J/KD/ Kawhi level guys. And Kawhi while peaking high is getting a serious boost off of basically 4 all-nba level seasons. He's great, but he's a weird case when discussing legacy. Then I guess it depends on how scientific we want to make comparing those tier B and C guys across eras.

Agree to disagree. I will say this though, Iggy is severely underrated, and him and Bernard IS a conversation. People forget or simply don't know he took Boston's big 4 to game 7. A little more luck and he's a hall of famer:cheers:

[Phoenix]

Agree to disagree. I will say this though, Iggy is severely underrated, and him and Bernard IS a conversation. People forget or simply don't know he took Boston's big 4 to game 7. A little more luck and he's a hall of famer:cheers:

Yeah, we'll agree to disagree, especially on Iggy and Bernard. Bear in mind that the 37 win Hawks did the same to the best version of that team in 08. And in the series you're talking about, Jrue Holiday lead the team in scoring, assist, steals, GmSc, and had a better offensive and defensive rating than Iggy. Not sure that bullet point is much of an arguing point here.

[MrFonzworth]

Yeah, we'll agree to disagree, especially on Iggy and Bernard. Bear in mind that the 37 win Hawks did the same to the best version of that team in 08. And in the series you're talking about, Jrue Holiday lead the team in scoring, assist, steals, GmSc, and had a better offensive and defensive rating than Iggy. Not sure that bullet point is much of an arguing point here.

That was always Iggy's team though. I wasn't trying to make some point on the subject, it was a footnote on how underappreciated he was in Philly. Iggy was a Pippen with no Jordan.

[Phoenix]

That was always Iggy's team though. I wasn't trying to make some point on the subject, it was a footnote on how underappreciated he was in Philly. Iggy was a Pippen with no Jordan.

Yeah it was Iggys team, I'm just saying that 'accomplishment' you listed can't chiefly be credited to him. Was more of a by-committe effort against the Celtics. That Boston team during their run got taken to more game 7s by teams they shouldn't have, anyway.

[tpols]

Lebron Durant Kawhi big 3 shits on that imo

[NBAGOAT]

I didnt drop the 00s SG list to say they were the best though, or even better than the 10s SFs. As I said, I thought they warranted a second mention in the thread. I do feel like guys like Wallace are like...eh compared to some of the other names, and Pierce on there as a mostly 00s guy who played a few decent seasons in the 10s is padding the list.

As far the 10s and 80s SF... someone like James Worthy or Bernard may be the 5th or 6th you think of.

Ah didn’t mean to say pgs were best overall, just best of the rest after 80s SFs

[72-10]

that's stacked taller than IHOP pancakes

[L.Kizzle]

We including all-D? Then there's also Iguodala and Covington.

Your list includes Kiki whose all star was as PF. :confusedshrug:

Also, talking about top heavy, after Bird and Erving, who was even near their level :confusedshrug:

Kiki played PF in Denver and SF in Portland. Basically split time at the positions. And yes his only 2 All-Stars were with Denver at PF. But he was still putting up 25+ in Portland for a few years.

After Bird and Doc you still have four different scoring champions, three different 30+ppg scorers, a Finals MVP (not a Iggy version) and All-NBA 1st and 2nd Teamers:
Nique (Scoring Champ, 30+ppg twice and 4x All-NBA Teams)
Dantley (2x Scoring Champ, 30+ppg four times)
King (Scoring Champ, 30+ppg, All-NBA 1st Team, MVP runner up to Larry Bird)
English (Scoring Champ, 25+ 8 years in a row, Leading Scorer of the entire Decade)
Worthy (1988 Finals MVP)
And you even have other guys like Marques Johnson and Mark Aguirre.
Yes, it's very top heavy with Bron, KD and Kawhi but after them PG13 and Melo are your next best guys. Are they better than any of the guys I just listed?

The 30 point + scorers in the decade (they are all wings besides Moses Malone.)
Adrian Dantley (4 times)
Michael Jordan (3 times)
George Gervin / Dominique Wilkins (2 times each)
Bernard King / World B Free / Moses Malone (1 time each)

[72-10]

offensive scoring machines that could score in binges, but you gotta admit most had trouble bringing the D

Alex English underrated that man had a silky smooth reliable jump shot from mid-range

[gonzaldo]

is it better than centres in the 90s and PF in the 00s?

[Axe]

How about shawn marion? Haven't seen him being brought or mention up in the thread so far unless I'm wrong.

[BigShotBob]

Agree to disagree. I will say this though, Iggy is severely underrated, and him and Bernard IS a conversation. People forget or simply don't know he took Boston's big 4 to game 7. A little more luck and he's a hall of famer:cheers:

No it's not. Do you know who Bernard King is? :roll:

Hate when children post on here. How can you debate with people who don't know anything?

[MrFonzworth]

No it's not. Do you know who Bernard King is? :roll:

Hate when children post on here. How can you debate with people who don't know anything?

Yea I do and I'm certainly not a child. Bernard King wasn't some superstar, he was a one trick pony with one exceptional year because he had the best defensive team to hide his mishaps. Iguodala was significantly better than him at everything other than scoring.

[L.Kizzle]

Yea I do and I'm certainly not a child. Bernard King wasn't some superstar, he was a one trick pony with one exceptional year because he had the best defensive team to hide his mishaps. Iguodala was significantly better than him at everything other than scoring.
Bernard King actually was a Superstar. He was voted MVP in 1984 by Sporting News.

[72-10]

Well, while he was kind of one-dimensional compared to most Hall of Famers, and while he got a lot of his scoring fairly close to the basket, I still regard Bernard King as deserving of the Hall of Fame, part of that long list of 80s/90s crew who deserve it.

[iamgine]

Kiki played PF in Denver and SF in Portland. Basically split time at the positions. And yes his only 2 All-Stars were with Denver at PF. But he was still putting up 25+ in Portland for a few years.

After Bird and Doc you still have four different scoring champions, three different 30+ppg scorers, a Finals MVP (not a Iggy version) and All-NBA 1st and 2nd Teamers:
Nique (Scoring Champ, 30+ppg twice and 4x All-NBA Teams)
Dantley (2x Scoring Champ, 30+ppg four times)
King (Scoring Champ, 30+ppg, All-NBA 1st Team, MVP runner up to Larry Bird)
English (Scoring Champ, 25+ 8 years in a row, Leading Scorer of the entire Decade)
Worthy (1988 Finals MVP)
And you even have other guys like Marques Johnson and Mark Aguirre.
Yes, it's very top heavy with Bron, KD and Kawhi but after them PG13 and Melo are your next best guys. Are they better than any of the guys I just listed?

The 30 point + scorers in the decade (they are all wings besides Moses Malone.)
Adrian Dantley (4 times)
Michael Jordan (3 times)
George Gervin / Dominique Wilkins (2 times each)
Bernard King / World B Free / Moses Malone (1 time each)

Just because they score more, doesn't mean they're better. The 80s are full of scorers. Defense was quite laxed back then. Purvis Short once averaged 28ppg

Are you saying they were even near Bird's level?