3 of the greatest defenders of all time

[tpols]

Ben Wallace, Rodman, and Draymond Green.


undrafted
2nd round no. 27
2nd round no. 35


How were they so undervalued in the draft?

[MrFonzworth]

Defense is hard to gauge in a kid. Funny thing is I doubt either of them would be as good taken in the lottery. They all had something to prove every night. These guys had the Kobe mentality without the talent.

[Phoenix]

Defense has always been undervalued relative to offence. Tmac went into the hall on his first year of eligibility, as an offensive star who couldn't get out of the first round. Ben Wallace anchored the defense for a championship, won 2 rebounding titles, 4 time DPOY, blocks title, 5 time all-nba, 6 time all defense. HOF? Crickets so far. The voters should be publicly tarred and feathered for the oversight.

[Jasper]

my 3 (Dennis Rodman , a nameless hard working Detroit Center named Ben , and Ariza)

I picked Ariza cause when he played in Houston , he redefined his game)

[tpols]

Defense has always been undervalued relative to offence. Tmac went into the hall on his first year of eligibility, as an offensive star who couldn't get out of the first round. Ben Wallace anchored the defense for a championship, won 2 rebounding titles, 4 time DPOY, blocks title, 5 time all-nba, 6 time all defense. HOF? Crickets so far. The voters should be publicly tarred and feathered for the oversight.

it's even more shocking that he went undrafted.

[Kblaze8855]

Some of them didnt play the way they played in the nba...in college. Rodman was scoring like 26 a game in college. Ben Wallace was a tweener forward the Celtics tried to make a 3. Draymond was a small forward before he was a big. Scouts probably saw them as shitty wings with a physical advantage in college whos skills wouldnt translate and not as the super mobile bigs they grew into. Especially Rodman. Rodman was like 25 as a rookie. A grown ass man playing kids in a low level conference? I can see how scouts would overlook that and assume he has little potential. He was just an athlete beating up on 18 yearolds to them I bet.

[tpols]

Ben Wallace was also mentored from a young age by charles oakley.

that makes sense.

[Whoah10115]

Draymond never made sense to me. I don't really watch college sports, like almost at all, but was clear to me he was legit. Tho the SF thing I get.

[oldtimer28]

it's even more shocking that he went undrafted.

I remember him for Boston............

[Patrick Chewing]

Bruce Bowen needs some consideration. That man was like glue.

[guy]

Defense and rebounding has a lot more to do with energy and effort than other aspects. I assume it’s hard to gauge how well that transfers from college to the pros.

[imdaman99]

All have elite level motors. I guess that's hard to gauge in college.

[Pointguard]

You have to embrace the identity of a greatest defender of all time, that its your bread and butter. You have to claim it. Hard to do before you are 25 as its a man's stance. You aren't going to see it early if ever. As Imdaman99 says, its about the motor. KG is the only one I seen embrace it around 22 years old. But a large part of that was he had offense too.

[tpols]

Hard to do before you are 25 as its a man's stance

that's true and touches on kblaze's post.

there are many brilliant offensive players at a young age but to be the same way defensively you need to know your opponents tendencies and habits. To effectively counter.

Being older means you have that experience.

[Cyrus334]

I forgot who said it but they basically said that defense is all about heart and effort. And all those guys you mentioned are the very definition of heart and passion when it comes to defending.

[TheCorporation]

You almost cant be great on offense because you burn energy on both ends. That's why 2-way elites are so rare like LBJ, MJ, Kobe, CP3, Pippen.

Top 3 ever: Rodman, Draymond, KG/Wallace

[Carbine]

Tpols last week "Draymond a great, but not historical defender"

This week "Draymond one of the greatest defensive players of all time"

[1987_Lakers]

You almost cant be great on offense because you burn energy on both ends. That's why 2-way elites are so rare like LBJ, MJ, Kobe, CP3, Pippen.

Top 3 ever: Rodman, Draymond, KG/Wallace

You can say the top 3 defenders ever are Russell, Hakeem, & D-Rob, 2 of those guys were great offensively.

David Robinson I feel doesn't get talked enough in the GOAT defender arguments. Super agile, could guard SFs, good man defender and all-time great rim protector. Spurs went from being a #3 defense with D-Rob in '96 to dead last in '97 without him, that is impact.

[1987_Lakers]

Tpols last week "Draymond a great, but not historical defender"

This week "Draymond one of the greatest defensive players of all time"

Dude doesn't know wtf he's talking about.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?478779-Patrick-Ewing-vs-Draymond-Green-who-is-the-greater-defender/page2


the Dubs are 26th ranked defense this year with just dray leading the way.

he has absolutely no anchoring ability. They were great in the past because of the team... not dray.

he's a second round role player for a reason....

[Hey Yo]

Some of them didnt play the way they played in the nba...in college. Rodman was scoring like 26 a game in college. Ben Wallace was a tweener forward the Celtics tried to make a 3. Draymond was a small forward before he was a big. Scouts probably saw them as shitty wings with a physical advantage in college whos skills wouldnt translate and not as the super mobile bigs they grew into. Especially Rodman. Rodman was like 25 as a rookie. A grown ass man playing kids in a low level conference? I can see how scouts would overlook that and assume he has little potential. He was just an athlete beating up on 18 yearolds to them I bet.
Winner winner chicken dinner.

[TheCorporation]

You can say the top 3 defenders ever are Russell, Hakeem, & D-Rob, 2 of those guys were great offensively.

David Robinson I feel doesn't get talked enough in the GOAT defender arguments. Super agile, could guard SFs, good man defender and all-time great rim protector. Spurs went from being a #3 defense with D-Rob in '96 to dead last in '97 without him, that is impact.

Great point on Hakeem, He is another elite 2way player. DRob is too, but his scoring prime wasn't as long as others if I recall correctly.

[TheCorporation]

Dude doesn't know wtf he's talking about.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?478779-Patrick-Ewing-vs-Draymond-Green-who-is-the-greater-defender/page2

:lol

[tpols]

That still holds true. Dray is a role player offensively.

He's great at defense, but again, not better than pat ewing. Of course Ewing was a #1 super lotto pick so he doesnt really fit the mold of this thread.

That's a weak "gotcha!" moment.

[Roundball_Rock]

Dude doesn't know wtf he's talking about.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?478779-Patrick-Ewing-vs-Draymond-Green-who-is-the-greater-defender/page2

:lol

Tpols is like Nicole Kidman in that movie: every morning he wakes up and completely forgets whatever he said or happened before...

[Genaro]

:lol

Tpols is like Nicole Kidman in that movie: every morning he wakes up and completely forgets whatever he said or happened before...

I think you meant Drew Barrymore

[Axe]

Tpols last week "Draymond a great, but not historical defender"

This week "Draymond one of the greatest defensive players of all time"
Anything he says must be taken with a grain of salt.

[kkb_12]

Russell
Duncan
Hakeem

[Sulico]

Defense is hard to gauge in a kid. Funny thing is I doubt either of them would be as good taken in the lottery. They all had something to prove every night. These guys had the Kobe mentality without the talent.

Dennis Rodman is one of the most talented athletes that ever stepped on the court.
Also he is absolute opposite of Kobe mentality wise.
Kobe is famous for his work ethic, concentration and ability to limit distractions. Rodman is a living distraction and had no work ethic whatsoever. Spending night in the club prior to game is what Rodman did on regular basis.

[Axe]

Dennis Rodman is one of the most talented athletes that ever stepped on the court.
Also he is absolute opposite of Kobe mentality wise.
Kobe is famous for his work ethic, concentration and ability to limit distractions. Rodman is a living distraction and had no work ethic whatsoever. Spending night in the club prior to game is what Rodman did on regular basis.
Rodman is more laid back while kobe is more hardworking. But at least we don't get to see the former be dubbed as a ballhogger or one who's selfish in the court, for given reasons ofc. And he also didn't stray from his coach's orders that much, unlike what kobe did during his younger days. However, rodman was shown to have some emotional outbursts too.