Why did scouts get Kawhi's shooting ability wrong?

[StrongLurk]

Kawhi has actually been a very good, or even great, shooter his whole career, right from the start.

Sure he was definitely a role player until 2015, but his first 3 playoffs he shot 52.2% from the field, 41.6% from 3 (albeit not a ton of attempts per game) and had a 58.9 EFG%

Since the 2014-2015 season (when he became a legit star) until now, he is averaging 27ppg on 49.7/40.8/87.9 in the playoffs. I mean, that is better efficiency than a guy like Kobe ever managed to get to.

For some reason, Kawhi has never been looked at as a "pure" shooter like Bird, Durant, Dirk, etc...yet he is basically a 50/40/90 player in the playoffs over his last 53 games. I admit myself I never really "think" of him as that kind of shooter, but he is at 5 attempts per game from 3 in the playoffs since 2015, so that isn't a small amount or anything.

[light]

His shot is too flat for me.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Scouts thought Jimmer was going to be a bigger star hahhaha.

His last 36 playoff games he is averaging 30PPG on 50/40/90 shooting splits. Also 89% free throw 2020 reg season. He is basically Dirk Nowitski level shooter who can pass/slash/dribible like a guard, with defense like Pippen/Artest = GOAT as long as he can have an extended prime

[MrFonzworth]

He has a nice stroke but he's no Chandler Parsons.

[Shooter]

Scouts thought Jimmer was going to be a bigger star hahhaha.

His last 36 playoff games he is averaging 30PPG on 50/40/90 shooting splits. Also 89% free throw 2020 reg season. He is basically Dirk Nowitski level shooter who can pass/slash/dribible like a guard, with defense like Pippen/Artest = GOAT as long as he can have an extended prime

Pass and slash? :lol

I'll give you defense and score

[AlternativeAcc.]

Scouts thought Jimmer was going to be a bigger star hahhaha.

His last 36 playoff games he is averaging 30PPG on 50/40/90 shooting splits. Also 89% free throw 2020 reg season. He is basically Dirk Nowitski level shooter who can pass/slash/dribible like a guard, with defense like Pippen/Artest = GOAT as long as he can have an extended prime
He can't pass, slash, dribble, or shoot like a guard, nor is he as good as pippen or artest on D

..BUT he can sit on the bench and be a bitch more than anyone we've ever seen. I give him credit where credit is due. Kawhit is the goat bitch.

[Shooter]

He can't pass, slash, dribble, or shoot like a guard, nor is he as good as pippen or artest on D

..BUT he can sit on the bench and be a bitch more than anyone we've ever seen. I give him credit where credit is due. Kawhit is the goat bitch.

:roll: :roll:

ROASTED

[HBK_Kliq_2]

He can't pass, slash, dribble, or shoot like a guard, nor is he as good as pippen or artest on D

..BUT he can sit on the bench and be a bitch more than anyone we've ever seen. I give him credit where credit is due. Kawhit is the goat bitch.

He averaged 5 assists with a 33 usage on a top 3 offense in 2020 season. Like I said, he can pass and dribble like a guard.

As far as defense, he locked up LeBron for 3 straight wins in 2014 finals and he locked up Giannis for 4 straight wins in 2019 ECF.

[oldtimer28]

His defence always stood out to me so I overlooked his shooting

[Horatio33]

In his two seasons in college he shot .205 and .291 from three point range. He was drafted by the Spurs who have a coach called Chip Engelland who works on shooting. That helped Kawhi's mechanics and Kawhi has the work ethic to make it work.

[tpols]

he's pretty much a perfect basketball player. it's possible playing in san antonio helped his development.

[Roundball_Rock]

Krause on the Woj podcast said he didn't care about shooting when drafting players because any player can learn to shoot if they put in the work. He looked at defensive ability and their raw tools, the latter which you can't teach and the former that is harder to learn (since basketball IQ is a big part of defense). I suspect if Krause was around he would have taken Kawhi in the top 10.

[tpols]

Krause on the Woj podcast said he didn't care about shooting when drafting players because any player can learn to shoot if they put in the work. He looked at defensive ability and their raw tools, the latter which you can't teach and the former that is harder to learn (since basketball IQ is a big part of defense). I suspect if Krause was around he would have taken Kawhi in the top 10.

not meaning to affront, but pippen seemed like an ultra hard working player and HOF talent, yet he never came close to shooting like kawhi. Being elite at shooting definitely has a talent component to it as well. Rondo could practice a 3 twice as much as curry, he'll never shoot it better than him.

[deathawaitu]

Same thing way scouts got LeBron wrong
People thought he was going to be a MJ
But at the end LeBron ended being another Jerry west and Baylor

[rmt]

Kawhi was a very RAW player - basically athletic (but injured - that's why he dropped to 15) with excellent attitude.

Spurs are an organization where a player can reach his full potential. Shooting coach Chip Engelland, excellent mentoring/nurturing and MJ tapes.

[dirkdiggler41]

Same thing way scouts got LeBron wrong
People thought he was going to be a MJ
But at the end LeBron ended being another Jerry west and Baylor

What? Nobody said he was going be like MJ, at least not serious scouts. They said he had the potential to be the next MJ as far as career goes. The media scouting was saying he was going to be a mix between MJ and Magic, not the scorer and not the passer, but something in between.

[baudkarma]

In his two seasons in college he shot .205 and .291 from three point range. He was drafted by the Spurs who have a coach called Chip Engelland who works on shooting. That helped Kawhi's mechanics and Kawhi has the work ethic to make it work.

Chip said this, in an interview with the San Antonio Express-News:

“I guess we can start from the beginning, before the draft. I walked into pre-draft camp, and Kawhi wasn’t scheduled to work out. He was getting tested. Some of the players will take a few shots, just because there are baskets there. I evaluate shooters for the draft. A lot of them, I have to watch on film. It’s nice when you get to watch it in person. I happened to walk in, and he happened to take shots literally right when I walked in. I got to see it in person. We all talked (as a staff). I felt his shot didn’t need a full makeover. With just a tune-up, he could become a very good shooter, if not great shooter.”

[ralph_i_el]

Mechanically, Kawhi has a flat angle on his shots. He gets away with it because he has such a high release point. Remember, he has the wingspan of a big center. He puts a ton of touch on his shots too.

[iamgine]

not meaning to affront, but pippen seemed like an ultra hard working player and HOF talent, yet he never came close to shooting like kawhi. Being elite at shooting definitely has a talent component to it as well. Rondo could practice a 3 twice as much as curry, he'll never shoot it better than him.
I tend to believe most anyone can learn to shoot. If women like Maya Moore and a few others could become an elite shooter, any NBA player should be able to.

[fsvr54]

Flat or not, his jumpers go in at a high clip. That's what matters. Show me another player in the league right now (other than KD) with such a buttery midrange J with defenders in his face.

[Roundball_Rock]

not meaning to affront, but pippen seemed like an ultra hard working player and HOF talent, yet he never came close to shooting like kawhi. Being elite at shooting definitely has a talent component to it as well. Rondo could practice a 3 twice as much as curry, he'll never shoot it better than him.

Krause said what he said. He looked at Pippen, Grant for their defensive abilities. The Pippen comment came because Woj asked if they drafted him to be a complement to Jordan as a 2nd option. Krause said they weren't concerned with scoring or shooting because it could be learned and he noted Pippen did become a good shooter (take up your cherry picked stats from one series against the #1 defense up with him--his words). It makes sense. If you have MJ averaged 37 PPG but a trash defense every year you logically are going to focus on defense.

[Phoenix]

Flat or not, his jumpers go in at a high clip. That's what matters. Show me another player in the league right now (other than KD) with such a buttery midrange J with defenders in his face.

There isn't. They're the two most lethal mid-range guys in the league and there's an argument that ability to create volume offense in that area is the still the most important ability in a playoff situation, when dead legs and pressure start affecting those 3 point shots that some players rely on during the year. I think that's why Kawhi has proven to be a more reliable big game player than the likes of Steph and Harden.

[AlternativeAcc.]

There isn't. They're the two most lethal mid-range guys in the league and there's an argument that ability to create volume offense in that area is the still the most important ability in a playoff situation, when dead legs and pressure start affecting those 3 point shots that some players rely on during the year. I think that's why Kawhi has proven to be a more reliable big game player than the likes of Steph and Harden.
Kawhi isn't even a top 10 midrange shooter in the NBA LMAO.

he's not in the same league as Durant or Paul, let alone Middleton or derozan..

[Phoenix]

Kawhi isn't even a top 10 midrange shooter in the NBA LMAO.

he's not in the same league as Durant or Paul, let alone Middleton or derozan..

I'll stick with Kawhi until any of the bolded translate their mid range volume and efficiency into a first option role on a team that at least makes the finals.

[AlternativeAcc.]

I'll stick with Kawhi until any of the bolded translate their mid range volume and efficiency into a first option role on a team that at least makes the finals.
Kawhi has played on teams that win 60 wins without him every year of his career.

He won a ring as a 12ppg role player :oldlol:

And we're talking midrange shooting only, but way to move the goal post champ :applause:

[Akeem34TheDream]

Kawhi isn't even a top 10 midrange shooter in the NBA LMAO.

he's not in the same league as Durant or Paul, let alone Middleton or derozan..

:lol Oh yeah not even top 10. Is Lebron also better?:lol
When you troll, you should have at least an angle to argue. When you type stupid, blatantly wrong shit like this people would just laugh at you.

[Phoenix]

Kawhi has played on teams that win 60 wins without him every year of his career.

He won a ring as a 12ppg role player :oldlol:

And we're talking midrange shooting only, but way to move the goal post champ :applause:

Except no goalposts were moved, champ, because no goalposts were set to begin with. The first poster said KD and Kawhi had the most buttery midrange shots in the game. And I concurred with that by saying they're the most lethal two. And in the context of when it actually counts, the playoffs? I'll take Kawhi over Khris Middleton and the annual playoff shrinker Derozan, I don't care what the regular season numbers say. If you'd take Khris Middleton in the playoffs in terms of ability to make contested midrange over Kawhi, you're an idiot. Actually, you're just an idiot anyway, not that I'm any better acknowledging you.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Except no goalposts were moved, champ, because no goalposts were set to begin with. The first poster said KD and Kawhi had the most buttery midrange shots in the game. And I concurred with that by saying they're the most lethal two. And in the context of when it actually counts, the playoffs? I'll take Kawhi over Khris Middleton and the annual playoff shrinker Derozan, I don't care what the regular season numbers say. If you'd take Khris Middleton in the playoffs in terms of ability to make contested midrange over Kawhi, you're an idiot. Actually, you're just an idiot anyway, not that I'm any better acknowledging you.

So he made a subjective comment about the 'butteryness' of kawhi's clanky, ugly, robotic, no lift jumper and you gobbled it up like a *** whore?

I'll take any player over a guy who sits every other game and only succeeds on teams that win 60 games without him. Kawhit is the goat bitch and he'll always be known as a quitter.

[Hey Yo]

Flat or not, his jumpers go in at a high clip. That's what matters. Show me another player in the league right now (other than KD) with such a buttery midrange J with defenders in his face.
I would add LeMarcus Aldridge to your list.

Just last year, 23% of his shots were from mid-range and he shot 46%. For his career 21% of his shots are from mid-range at he's shot 42%. I'm not saying he's better than the 2 mentioned, but he's right there. The highest % of his shot selection is from 16ft to the 3pt line at over 30%. Seems strange for a dude who's 6'11

Plus it depends what one considers the distance of a true mid-range shot. I've seen some say / use 10-16ft and also seen others say 12-17ft.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Kawhi has played on teams that win 60 wins without him every year of his career.

He won a ring as a 12ppg role player :oldlol:

And we're talking midrange shooting only, but way to move the goal post champ :applause:

Spurs had 7 total playoff wins in the three years leading up to drafting Kawhi

Raptors lost in a 2nd round sweep

Clippers were a 1st round exit

Zero playoff success before Kawhi came on board.

Now Kawhi is anchoring a top 5 offense and defense while averaging 27PPG on 33% usage. Can you name me any other players in NBA history who have done that in a single season? Didn't think so, now go back to watching your 3-6 finals tape. We all know you don't actually watch Leonard.

[Phoenix]

So he made a subjective comment about the 'butteryness' of kawhi's clanky, ugly, robotic, no lift jumper and you gobbled it up like a *** whore?

I'll take any player over a guy who sits every other game and only succeeds on teams that win 60 games without him. Kawhit is the goat bitch and he'll always be known as a quitter.

From mid-range shooting to bitching about him sitting games. And talking about others moving goalposts. Fukk off.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Spurs had 7 total playoff wins in the three years leading up to drafting Kawhi

Raptors lost in a 2nd round sweep

Clippers were a 1st round exit

Zero playoff success before Kawhi came on board.

Now Kawhi is anchoring a top 5 offense and defense while averaging 27PPG on 33% usage. Can you name me any other players in NBA history who have done that in a single season? Didn't think so, now go back to watching your 3-6 finals tape. We all know you don't actually watch Leonard.

Spurs were a dynasty with 3 hall of famers and one of the GOAT coaches before Kawhi came.

The Raptors team he played for is on pace to win 60 games without him.

The Clippers acquired Paul George and are the most stacked team in he league.


You're right about one thing though, I don't watch Kawhit play. Hard to watch someone play when they're sitting on the bench eating skittles.

[AlternativeAcc.]

From mid-range shooting to bitching about him sitting games. And talking about others moving goalposts. Fukk off.

You're the one who changed he conversation from mid-range to who you would take in the playoffs you actual retard. All of the guys I mentioned have better mid-range numbers in the playoffs, except they don't play for stacked teams like Kawhit.

'fukk off'... good one

[r0drig0lac]

Kawhi isn't even a top 10 midrange shooter in the NBA LMAO.

he's not in the same league as Durant or Paul, let alone Middleton or derozan..

lmao

[Phoenix]

You're the one who changed he conversation from mid-range to who you would take in the playoffs you actual retard. All of the guys I mentioned have better mid-range numbers in the playoffs, except they don't play for stacked teams like Kawhit.

'fukk off'... good one

Stacked teams? Nah, let's just stick with the players you picked out. You're not going to define the parameters of this and then bitch about someone else moving goalposts. When I said I take Kawhi in the playoffs, I said I would do so on the basis of taking his midrange game in the playoffs over those guys, So lets look at last years playoff numbers....


2019 playoff mid-range

Kawhi 49.2% on 4.9 shots
Middleton 41.9% on 4.1 shots
Derozon 44.2 on 7.4 shots
CP3 45.8% on 2.2 shots

Only thing Derozon has is volume but shoots lower efficiency. Middleton has both lower volume and efficiency. Ditto for CP3. You said Kawhi isn't even a top 10 mid-range shooter. Factually wrong and then you top it off with a bitchfest about him sitting out games, no relevance to the topic. You ok?

[AlternativeAcc.]

Stacked teams? Nah, let's just stick with the players you picked out. You're not going to define the parameters of this and then bitch about someone else moving goalposts. When I said I take Kawhi in the playoffs, I said I would do so on the basis of trusting his midrange game in the playoffs. So lets look at last years playoff numbers....


2019 playoff mid-range

Kawhi 49.2% on 4.9 shots
Middleton 41.9% on 4.1 shots
Derozon 44.2 on 7.4
CP3 45.8% on 2.2 shots

Only thing Derozon has is volume but shoots lower efficiency. Middleton has both lower volume and efficiency. Ditto for CP3. You said Kawhi isn't even a top 10 mid-range shooter. Factually wrong and then you top it off with a bitchfest about him sitting out games, no relevance to the topic. You ok?

Tiny sample size.. the parameters are too vague... they didn't face the same comp..

yawn.


Durant, Paul, Middleton, Derozan, Booker, McCollum, Jokic, Mitchell, Murray, Warren, LeBron > Kawhit


Kawhit isn't a top 10 anything.. shooter, passer, dribbler, defender... not a single thing

[Phoenix]

Tiny sample size.. the parameters are too vague... they didn't play for the same teams or face the same comp..

yawn.


Durant, Paul, Middleton, Derozan, Booker, McCollum, Jokic, Mitchell, Murray, Warren, LeBron > Kawhit


Kawhit isn't a top 10 anything.. shooter, passer, dribbler, defender... not a single thing

You're the one who brought up those guys having better playoff numbers. And when I blow that bullshit sky high, suddenly 'small sample' size or some bullshit about they didn't play the same teams
:yaohappy:

https://images.axios.com/gcutfJYbL46WDQfxWNB4qB3Ir30=/fit-in/1920x1920/2020/05/11/1589206235552.gif

2019 playoff mid-range

Kawhi 49.2% on 4.9 shots
Middleton 41.9% on 4.1 shots
Derozon 44.2 on 7.4 shots
CP3 45.8% on 2.2 shots

'Not a top 10 mid-range player doe'

Yawn.

[AlternativeAcc.]

You're the one who brought up those guys having better playoff numbers. And when I blow that bullshit sky high, suddenly 'small sample' size or some bullshit about they didn't play the same teams
:yaohappy:

https://images.axios.com/gcutfJYbL46WDQfxWNB4qB3Ir30=/fit-in/1920x1920/2020/05/11/1589206235552.gif

2019 playoff mid-range

Kawhi 49.2% on 4.9 shots
Middleton 41.9% on 4.1 shots
Derozon 44.2 on 7.4 shots
CP3 45.8% on 2.2 shots

'Not a top 10 mid-range player doe'

Yawn.

I want career numbers and specific distances..

You posted a 13 game sample size with no specific distances or context. Fetch!

[Phoenix]

All of the guys I mentioned have better mid-range numbers in the playoffs,

You asked for a small sample size comparison when you said this. I don't give a fukk what you want. This is the current reality based on the latest playoff numbers


2019 playoff mid-range

Kawhi 49.2% on 4.9 shots
Middleton 41.9% on 4.1 shots
Derozon 44.2 on 7.4 shots
CP3 45.8% on 2.2 shots

And now you're scrabbled like a triggered little bitch. :oldlol:

[fsvr54]

I don't get Kawhi hate. If you actually watch him play, he usually looks like the best player on the floor no matter who they play.

Did he fukk your ho or something?

[Roundball_Rock]

I don't get Kawhi hate. If you actually watch him play, he usually looks like the best player on the floor no matter who they play.

It is due to the hype based on a couple years (e.g., sports shows saying he could be GOAT or alternatively top 10 all-time if he wins this year--after 4 elite seasons) but frankly a lot of the hate he gets seems to come from LeBron fans. I was in the former camp but am warming up to Kawhi as I dig into him more and some of the posting here digging into him from HBK and others.

[FireDavidKahn]

Because you cant be perfect on everything related to scouting

[HBK_Kliq_2]

Spurs were a dynasty with 3 hall of famers and one of the GOAT coaches before Kawhi came.

The Raptors team he played for is on pace to win 60 games without him.

The Clippers acquired Paul George and are the most stacked team in he league.


You're right about one thing though, I don't watch Kawhit play. Hard to watch someone play when they're sitting on the bench eating skittles.

Spurs were a dynasty about 4-5 years before they drafted him. That's like me saying "Wade was a finals MVP and elite player in 2014". Try having some damn context when you post, otherwise I will just consider it trolling.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

I want career numbers and specific distances..

You posted a 13 game sample size with no specific distances or context. Fetch!

You hate Kawhi now? Wait until he eliminates old yeller (lebron) in the bubble. LeBron the old yeller dog that everybody loves, ultimately will have to be taken back to the woodshed and PUT DOWN by Kawhi. Are you going to miss old yeller?

[StrongLurk]

You hate Kawhi now? Wait until he eliminates old yeller (lebron) in the bubble. LeBron the old yeller dog that everybody loves, ultimately will have to be taken back to the woodshed and PUT DOWN by Kawhi. Are you going to miss old yeller?

I'm curious, is this your main account or an ALT? Are you actually new to ISH? I feel like you aren't.

[HBK_Kliq_2]

I'm curious, is this your main account or an ALT? Are you actually new to ISH? I feel like you aren't.

My only account ever, I'm not old yeller like LeBron and been around for 20 damn years. I have posted on reddit in the past.

[Axe]

Regardless, i believe kawhi still had some iconic playoff moments in the past, unlike that overrated gerbil called stephen curry.