Jeff Bezos is up to 190 billion.

[starface]

Kblaze are you completely unaware of how a company works? Or are you just being intentionally obtuse?

While Bezos has a net worth of nearly ~200b today, he currently owns a much smaller % of his company than he did back when his net worth was ~10m. For the trust scenario I laid out earlier, the dollar amount of the equity in the trust upon its creation is irrelevant... what matters is the % of equity contained in the trust and the rate at which this equity is distributed to the employees.

If you really think that people like Bill Gates and Bezos are hoarding wealth for "the greater good"... would you care to buy a bridge?

BTW, Bill Gates net worth has more than doubled since he came out with his so-called giving pledge (its tripled if you include the ~40 billion in assets under control of his "charity")... amazing that one of the greediest men of the past century has fooled so many people into thinking he is some kind of humanitarian because he has promised to donate his fortune to himself :oldlol:

I remember Prime Time buying that mularkey a while back.

He was arguing people should be leftists bc it means they agree with smart guys like gates and buffet.

I was like how are they leftists, theyre wealthy af.

And pt was like “dude, theyre giving it ALL AWAY. Have you not heard about the pledge??”

And thats my point. You cant fix stupid. Not with money. Only with genetic interference.

Bezos cannot solve these problems with handouts. It wont stop the masses from being suckers. It is an extremely temporary bandaid.

[starface]

I’m sure they don’t wanna have to ask you to leave though. How many videos have we seen of some old guy cussing out some kid who has nothing to do with policy for doing what her jobs says to do?

It rarely looks fun.

What is a 17 year old on her first job supposed to do about like....Lowe’s corporate policy or local law?


The typical 17 year old? Obviously nothing.

If it was me? Id be trying to stage employee meetings and explain to these people how theyre being screwed. Then trying to get them to demand action as a group. Ive literally been doing this kinda shit since middle school, trying to fight unfair homework policies. Thats me. It’s just in my DNA. Ive rattled the bars of many a holding center cell, shouting my grievances. Especially when I was younger. Best believe.

But the cooperation is never there, bc other folks arent built that way. They take the safe, mainstream route. They cant gamble on risks they dont TRULY understand.

Thats one of the big life lessons I still struggle with accepting. I can accept it in theory, here in a discussion. But I do have trouble giving up on it in practice. Even tho I know deep down it will never change.

[Nanners]

I remember Prime Time buying that mularkey a while back.

He was arguing people should be leftists bc it means they agree with smart guys like gates and buffet.

I was like how are they leftists, theyre wealthy af.

And pt was like “dude, theyre giving it ALL AWAY. Have you not heard about the pledge??”

And thats my point. You cant fix stupid. Not with money. Only with genetic interference.

Bezos cannot solve these problems with handouts. It wont stop the masses from being suckers. It is an extremely temporary bandaid.

obviously handouts dont fix stupid, but they would help to fix our obscene levels of wealth inequality

anyway if I was bezos I wouldnt give everyone "handouts", I would reward my employees with equity in the company they have helped to build into one of the most valuable companies on the face of the planet.

[Kblaze8855]

Kblaze are you completely unaware of how a company works? Or are you just being intentionally obtuse?

While Bezos has a net worth of nearly ~200b today, he currently owns a much smaller % of his company than he did back when his net worth was ~10m. For the trust scenario I laid out earlier, the dollar amount of the equity in the trust upon its creation is irrelevant... what matters is the % of equity contained in the trust and the rate at which this equity is distributed to the employees.

If you really think that people like Bill Gates and Bezos are hoarding wealth for "the greater good"... would you care to buy a bridge? Bill Gates net worth has more than doubled since he came out with his so-called giving pledge (its tripled if you include the ~40 billion in assets he controls through his "charity")... amazing that one of the greediest men of the past century has fooled so many people into thinking he is some kind of humanitarian because he has promised to donate his fortune to himself :oldlol:



You believe rich people are greedier than poor people because they have the money the poor wish they did?

People don’t have that kind of money because they don’t know how to get it not because they don’t wish they could get it. A rich person and a poor persons greed can be equal. One just doesn’t know how to get what they both want.

And on the other issue....

A person with 10 million giving away a portion as well as future earnings of his small company simply cannot do as much as a person with 500 million giving away a smaller portion with an already gigantic company that was run to achieve that goal.

Forget the people already rich....

If you’re the type to want to do all you can wouldn’t you be better off generating more to give than handing it to a small number of employees most of whom will be normal greedy humans?

You can’t fix the worlds problems by giving a few thousand people the money to buy a bigger house.

You probably can’t fix them at all....but you can accomplish more the higher you rise. Small important work has its place. It’s probably all most of us can ever do. But some people are out to change the world. I’m not saying all or even most are. I’m saying if you are....capping your wealth at 10 million might not be the best way to do it.

[Kblaze8855]

The typical 17 year old? Obviously nothing.

If it was me? Id be trying to stage employee meetings and explain to these people how theyre being screwed. Then trying to get them to demand action as a group. Ive literally been doing this kinda shit since middle school, trying to fight unfair homework policies. Thats me. It’s just in my DNA. Ive rattled the bars of many a holding center cell, shouting my grievances. Especially when I was younger. Best believe.

But the cooperation is never there, bc other folks arent built that way. They take the safe, mainstream route. They cant gamble on risks they dont TRULY understand.

Thats one of the big life lessons I still struggle with accepting. I can accept it in theory, here in a discussion. But I do have trouble giving up on it in practice. Even tho I know deep down it will never change.


Obviously if you could get everyone to cooperate to begin with you wouldn’t have such issues. That goes for most problems at work. Nobody would make 9 dollars at McDonald’s if a quarter million people didn’t accept it. There always being someone willing to do what you want is the greatest obstacle. Always will be.

[starface]

obviously handouts dont fix stupid, but they would help to fix our obscene levels of wealth inequality

anyway if I was bezos I wouldnt give everyone "handouts", I would reward my employees with equity in the company they have helped to build into one of the most valuable companies on the face of the planet.


Okay but the guy who started in warehouse two weeks ago and used fake urine to pass the drug screen hasnt been quite as instrumental in building the company as the guy who was standing next to Bezos 25 years ago when they were answering phones, packing orders, and delivering it themselves.

So the disparity in equity kinda reflects the disparity in contribution pretty accurately in that case.

[starface]

Obviously if you could get everyone to cooperate to begin with you wouldn’t have such issues. That goes for most problems at work. Nobody would make 9 dollars at McDonald’s if a quarter million people didn’t accept it. There always being someone willing to do what you want is the greatest obstacle. Always will be.


Exactly. Which is why I dont have a problem with Bezos doing his thing and employees doing their thing. I dont work there. It’s not my battle.

[Nanners]

You believe rich people are greedier than poor people because they have the money the poor wish they did?

People don’t have that kind of money because they don’t know how to get it not because they don’t wish they could get it. A rich person and a poor persons greed can be equal. One just doesn’t know how to get what they both want.

And on the other issue....

A person with 10 million giving away a portion as well as future earnings of his small company simply cannot do as much as a person with 500 million giving away a smaller portion with an already gigantic company that was run to achieve that goal.

Forget the people already rich....

If you’re the type to want to do all you can wouldn’t you be better off generating more to give than handing it to a small number of employees most of whom will be normal greedy humans?

You can’t fix the worlds problems by giving a few thousand people the money to buy a bigger house.

You probably can’t fix them at all....but you can accomplish more the higher you rise. Small important work has its place. It’s probably all most of us can ever do. But some people are out to change the world. I’m not saying all or even most are. I’m saying if you are....capping your wealth at 10 million might not be the best way to do it.

We arent talking about "rich people", we are talking about oligarchs.

Most people would consider someone like a Surgeon who makes ~500k/yr to be rich... Bezos has seen his net worth increase by 74b so far this year, thats equivalent to the yearly earnings of 150,000 surgeons (there are ~18,000 surgeons in the US)

So no, I dont believe that "rich people" are greedy... I think its greedy to hoard wealth to the extent that youre earning a hundred thousand times more than a regular rich person.

Anyway, its kind of hilarious that you fancy yourself as a left winger considering how hard you stan for the sociopathic oligarchs that are destroying this country with their seemingly insatiable lust for more money and more power.

[Nanners]

Okay but the guy who started in warehouse two weeks ago and used fake urine to pass the drug screen hasnt been quite as instrumental in building the company as the guy who was standing next to Bezos 25 years ago when they were answering phones, packing orders, and delivering it themselves.

So the disparity in equity kinda reflects the disparity in contribution pretty accurately in that case.

No shit, what exactly makes you think that I am advocating for rewarding a guy who was hired two weeks ago as much as someone who has been with the company for decades?

Virtually every company that gives their employees equity does it based on the amount of time that person has been with the company and how important/valueable they are to the company... for obvious reasons.

[starface]

For those who dont know, Jeff Bezos was born to a single teenage mother and an absentee father. His mom ended up marrying a latin immigrant from Cuba.

There was no privilege for him. He just absorbed all the info he could as a kid and when he was old enough, he put it to use. Dude was nerdy af, he def wasnt invited to any parties in high school. Dude didnt get put on the football team out of pity. Probably was a virgin til he got married. Nobody gave him equal social attention and importance and popularity when HE was young.

But now they all want a piece, and think they deserve it bc reasons.

Lol.

[starface]

No shit, what exactly makes you think that I am advocating for rewarding a guy who was hired two weeks ago as much as someone who has been with the company for decades?

Virtually every company that gives their employees equity does it based on the amount of time that person has been with the company and how important/valueable they are to the company... for obvious reasons.


So Im sure Amazon has the same policy.

Why would Bezos give his own earnings to other people who already have avenues for obtaining equity..?

[Kblaze8855]

I feel like your idea of the wealth in question is like some slave driving gold mine owner hoarding gold when he could give a little to the townspeople and maybe build a hospital or something. When your wealth is abstract and in the form of owning 11 percent of a company you started? When that company does record business and it’s value doubles what’s your plan for not becoming personally more wealthy? You have said give it to employees. Ok. So he sells half his shares or distributes them to the little guys so he drops back to pre pandemic levels. Now he’s at 5 percent of his own company. What’s low enough to not be greedy? 1?

Hed obviously still be a tycoon.

Hed also probably be pushed out of his own company in time.

I think your approach would work better with a private company that could cap Profits and deliver the excess to its employees but do people reach close to that level without going public? And if they do isn’t the wealth more tied up in the hypothetical value of their company?

Like Kanye. He is a billionaire off the hypothetical value of the Yeezy brand not because of cash or stock. How does one monetize that without losing significant control? Is it greedy to build something from concept in your head one night to Fortune 500 and not want to give up running it?

I think I’d agree with your line of thinking more if we were talking old world wealth. This shit is all imaginary. Well the entire concept of money having value is kinda made up anyway but you know what I mean.

[Norcaliblunt]

The thing is if you give the employees more money they will spend it thus giving other people and businesses more money, so on and so on. That creates jobs and opportunities in itself.

[rawimpact]

Jeff Bezos is one of the least-philanthropic billionaires EVER.

[Nanners]

For those who dont know, Jeff Bezos was born to a single teenage mother and an absentee father. His mom ended up marrying a latin immigrant from Cuba.

There was no privilege for him. He just absorbed all the info he could as a kid and when he was old enough, he put it to use. Dude was nerdy af, he def wasnt invited to any parties in high school. Dude didnt get put on the football team out of pity. Probably was a virgin til he got married. Nobody gave him equal social attention and importance and popularity when HE was young.

But now they all want a piece, and think they deserve it bc reasons.

Lol.

FFS dude do a little research before you flap your jaws. Bezos had an extremely privileged upbringing... his grandfather (and mentor) Lawrence Preston Gise was a multi-millionaire and one of the founding members of DARPA, and then went on to manage 25k employees at los alamos as head of the atomic energy commission.

Just when it seemed like you were finally becoming a worthwhile poster, youre gonna go and spew fake news on behalf of jeff bezos? cmon man

[Kblaze8855]

Far as left or right? I don’t see much use in labels or teams like people seem to want to belong to.


I take each issue on its own. Apparently that’s going around. You rep Bernie then vote republican I believe and guys like Tpols tell me I’m too far right to be a Democrat which I guess he is while he’s repping Trump...and advocating for much higher taxes on the rich and the government seizing chunks of large companies.

I don’t know where most of you stand. And maybe that’s for the best. Politics are at their worst when people support their team no matter what the issue is at the moment.

I don’t have to vote red to ask if covid is being blown outta proportion or not think climate change is gonna destroy the earth.

[~primetime~]

Jeff Bezos is one of the least-philanthropic billionaires EVER.

https://www.philanthropy.com/article/Bezos-Announces-2-Billion-for/244511

There are plenty of billionaires who have done less

[Norcaliblunt]

I mentioned this way earlier in the thread, but in regards to the original topic if I had 200 bill I would hear out people’s different business ideas and ventures like the show Shark Tank. The ones I liked I would give them the money they needed no strings attached helping other people with their “passion project”.

[Kblaze8855]

FFS dude do a little research before you flap your jaws. Bezos had an extremely privileged upbringing... his grandfather (and mentor) Lawrence Preston Gise was a multi-millionaire and one of the founding members of DARPA and supervised 25k nuclear scientists at los alamos.

Just when it seemed like you were finally becoming a worthwhile poster, youre gonna go and spew fake news on behalf of jeff bezos? cmon man

Didnt he start Amazon with something like a half million dollar personal loan?


Not all the money in the world but certainly beyond what most people can expect.

[~primetime~]

FFS dude do a little research before you flap your jaws. Bezos had an extremely privileged upbringing... his grandfather (and mentor) Lawrence Preston Gise was a multi-millionaire and one of the founding members of DARPA and then went on to manage 25k nuclear scientists at los alamos as head of the AEC.

Just when it seemed like you were finally becoming a worthwhile poster, youre gonna go and spew fake news on behalf of jeff bezos? cmon man

yep and he started Amazon with a $250,000 loan from his parents and straight up told them they'd likely lose their investment. He didnt even think his book website would work.

[Kblaze8855]

https://www.philanthropy.com/article/Bezos-Announces-2-Billion-for/244511

There are plenty of billionaires who have done less

I guess that comes down to how you want to judge charity. I remember an argument someone was having on if America was charitable or not. We were one of the most in terms of bottom line donations but almost dead last in the world by GDP. I don’t remember what the cause was but it was in interesting discussion.

[starface]

FFS dude do a little research before you flap your jaws. Bezos had an extremely privileged upbringing... his grandfather (and mentor) Lawrence Preston Gise was a multi-millionaire and one of the founding members of DARPA, and then went on to manage 25k employees at los alamos as head of the atomic energy commission.

Just when it seemed like you were finally becoming a worthwhile poster, youre gonna go and spew fake news on behalf of jeff bezos? cmon man

Okay, so he had genetic privilege.

A single teenage mom and not knowing your father, and also being an awkward geeky kid isnt privilege IMO, no matter how rich your grandfather is.

If youve still got all your old hangups about talented and successful people in the world being unfair, thats your issue. I cant pretend to make it mine for the sake of cordial relations.

[Nanners]

yep and he started Amazon with a $250,000 loan from his parents and straight up told them they'd likely lose their investment. He didnt even think his book website would work.

:applause:

250k (in 1995 dollars) for a website that he expected would fail... but he wasnt privileged

[starface]

yep and he started Amazon with a $250,000 loan from his parents and straight up told them they'd likely lose their investment. He didnt even think his book website would work.


But he was already an adult by that time working at a hedge fund, and had proven himself to be an extremely smart guy. I highly doubt he gets that loan, even from family, if he was a couch zombie with a low IQ and a propensity for weeknight drinking.

People with no connections get loans all the time if they put together the right plan.

I know I wouldn't want to swap positions with him as a kid, if there were no guarantees about the future. I dont consider a teen mom and absent father and being a social outcast to be privilege.

[Kblaze8855]

A rich and well connected grandfather is a huuuuge advantage. Huge. The knowledge and connections can come in almost as handy as the money. Almost.

[Nanners]

Okay, so he had genetic privilege.

A single teenage mom and not knowing your father, and also being an awkward geeky kid isnt privilege IMO, no matter how rich your grandfather is.

If youve still got all your old hangups about talented and successful people in the world being unfair, thats your issue. I cant pretend to make it mine for the sake of cordial relations.

I have no problem with talented and successful people, I just have a problem with sociopathic oligarchs who dedicate their lives to the endless pursuit of wealth and power at the expense of everything and everyone else.

Anyway, if youre gonna pretend that Bezos didnt grow up in front of a silver platter I think our discussion is going to end here... if I ever feel the desire to waste my time reading pro-bezos fake news I'll just read the washington post.

[starface]

A rich and well connected grandfather is a huuuuge advantage. Huge. The knowledge and connections can come in almost as handy as the money. Almost.


Thats true. That part is definitely more ‘privilege’ than I realized he had. However it’s not as tho he inherited someone elses business. He worked and learned as a kid, gained the credibility to receive a loan, and made it into Amazon.

Thats not the kind of privilege someone like, say, Trump was afforded.

I would definitely take Trump’s upbringing without any guarantees.

I wouldnt take Bezos’.

[Kblaze8855]

Well yea....


According to an investigation by The New York Times, Donald Trump received at least $413 million (2018 prices) from his father's business empire.[2] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_of_Donald_Trump#cite_note-takeaways-2)The Times drew upon more than 100,000 pages of tax returns and financial records from Fred Trump (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Trump)'s businesses and interviews with former advisers and employees, finding 295 distinct streams of revenue that Fred Trump created over five decades in order to channel his wealth to his son.[2] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_of_Donald_Trump#cite_note-takeaways-2)[3] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_of_Donald_Trump#cite_note-Tax_Schemes-3)
Trust funds

Trump is the beneficiary of several trust funds set up by his father and paternal grandmother beginning in 1949 when he was three years old.[4] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_of_Donald_Trump#cite_note-Kessler160303-4) According to the New York Times, he "was a millionaire by age 8",[2] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_of_Donald_Trump#cite_note-takeaways-2)[3] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_of_Donald_Trump#cite_note-Tax_Schemes-3) In 1976, Fred set up trust funds of $1 million ($4.5 million in 2019 dollars) for each of his five children and three grandchildren. Donald Trump received $90,000 in 1980 and $214,605 in 1981 through the fund.[4] (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_of_Donald_Trump#cite_note-Kessler160303-4).

[starface]

I have no problem with talented and successful people, I just have a problem with sociopathic oligarchs who dedicate their lives to the endless pursuit of wealth and power at the expense of everything and everyone else.

Anyway, if youre gonna pretend that Bezos didnt grow up in front of a silver platter I think our discussion is going to end here... if I ever feel the desire to waste my time reading pro-bezos fake news I'll just read the washington post.


Nothing I said was untrue. He did grow up with a single teenager mother, an absent father, and a stepdad immigrant. He was also seemingly a very late bloomer socially. I guess it comes down to your definition of privilege.

A rich grandfather is nice but Im not sure many people take Bezos’ situation without any guarantees. Tho maybe Im underestimating how many people would see it as an upgrade on their own upbringing, I dunno.

[starface]

Well yea....











[/SUP]


Yup. Trump had it easy as a kid and easy as an adult.

Bezos still had to work to move up. He wasnt inheriting an empire. And he would have found a way to make Amazon regardless.

So again, it comes down to the definition of privilege.

[Kblaze8855]

Young mother and a stepdad with a rich grandfather you live with in summers isn’t some unusually poor upbringing. Reading about his grandfathers ranch the situation seems pretty nice. He calls him his third parent and says he learned everything from him. I don’t know how he was morally but he seems like a hell of a role model to have far as learning how to make it in the word.

[Kblaze8855]

Yup. Trump had it easy as a kid and easy as an adult.

Bezos still had to work to move up. He wasnt inheriting an empire. And he would have found a way to make Amazon regardless.

So again, it comes down to the definition of privilege.



From what little I know Trump was setup to be rich but also had crazy pressure and a dad who might have been more demanding than loving especially on him as the heir. Nobody has it all good but some sure as hell have a head start.

[starface]

Young mother and a stepdad with a rich grandfather you live with in summers isn’t some unusually poor upbringing. Reading about his grandfathers ranch the situation seems pretty nice. He calls him his third parent and says he learned everything from him. I don’t know how he was morally but he seems like a hell of a role model to have far as learning how to make it in the word.


No doubt.

I still think a teen mom and missing father are tough things for a kid to deal with emotionally. The fact that he wanted to be learning and working at his grandfathers ranch instead of running away and causing trouble is a testament to his personal character. Many kids would not have done what Bezos ended up doing, given a similar upbringing. I can guarantee that.

[~primetime~]

I think very highly of Bezos and don't demonize him nearly as much as most...BUT there are several facets that are needed on the path to get where he is, it's more than just hard work, motivation, extreme intelligence, connections, starting money, etc etc etc...all the things mentioned in here...one of the biggest facets is straight up good old fashioned LUCK...Bezos is not one of a kind, there are lots of people out there with his qualities...you can watch Shark Tank and see lots of driven hard working dreamers get loans to start up businesses that are great ideas, none of them end up being Amazon. His idea "HIT" waaaaaaaaay harder than Bezos himself ever imagined. He didn't picture it being anything bigger than a website to buy used books.

[starface]

Sure, and it’s definitely true that just about anyone can “hit” once if theyre lucky. But with Amazon the hits kept coming one after another, due foremost to Bezos’ constant output of innovative ideas. His success is definitely no coincidence. IIRC he was a valedictorian, a successful trader etc. I think comparing him to the average dreamer on Shark Tank is definitely under selling him a bit.

[fsvr54]

Insidehoops Jeff >>>> Jeff Bezos

[bladefd]

I think very highly of Bezos and don't demonize him nearly as much as most...BUT there are several facets that are needed on the path to get where he is, it's more than just hard work, motivation, extreme intelligence, connections, starting money, etc etc etc...all the things mentioned in here...one of the biggest facets is straight up good old fashioned LUCK...Bezos is not one of a kind, there are lots of people out there with his qualities...you can watch Shark Tank and see lots of driven hard working dreamers get loans to start up businesses that are great ideas, none of them end up being Amazon. His idea "HIT" waaaaaaaaay harder than Bezos himself ever imagined. He didn't picture it being anything bigger than a website to buy used books.

Well, timing was certainly the huge advantage on his side. When he started Amazon, nobody had a grasp over the e-commerce sector, which was pretty much brand new at the time in mid-90s. His only real competition initially was Barnes and Nobles, but I don't even know if Barnes and Nobles had e-commerce website before Bezos came along with Amazon. Of course, Amazon added other products, leaving his rivals behind, and the rest is history.

Amazon also had one of the best search algorithms, which was one of the biggest advantages he had over his rivals. People didn't have to sit there long time trying to find what they wanted. With a good algorithm like Amazon uses, one search and chances are consumers won't even need to go past first page.

Such a new business cannot compete with Amazon today. Jet.com tried and failed spectacularly. Whoever comes first takes the cake in business, especially if they don't stop improving & building a loyal following.

[JohnnySic]

I remember buying books on Amazon when that's all they did. Should have bought their stock I guess.

[rawimpact]

https://www.philanthropy.com/article/Bezos-Announces-2-Billion-for/244511

There are plenty of billionaires who have done less

Did you read that article?

It further shows why he's the least generous amongst the 1%

[ItsMillerTime]

**** Jeff Bezos

[~primetime~]

Did you read that article?

It further shows why he's the least generous amongst the 1%

In comparison to Buffett and Gates who are philanthropy nuts...no one compares to those two. And yeah in terms of % Bezos could certainly be higher...but there are billionaires who flat our give nothing or very little, like Trump.

[rawimpact]

In comparison to Buffett and Gates who are philanthropy nuts...no one compares to those two. And yeah in terms of % Bezos could certainly be higher...but there are billionaires who flat our give nothing or very little, like Trump.

And how do you know this? He has never disclosed his tax records... so that's quite the reach.

And are you really putting Trump in the same category as the others in the article? Way to throw your TDS into this.

[~primetime~]

I used Trump because he is known for his lack of philanthropy...but since that sets off YOUR TDS, we can use the Waltons...or really a plethora of lesser known billionaires that give very little.

Bezos isn't on Buffett/Gates level...but at least he has given something...all I was pointing out

[~primetime~]

And I can remember when he gave that $2B...lots of people on Twitter complaining about it...like it wasn't shit.

But at that time it was like 3-4% of his net worth...most of those complaining probably haven't donated 3% of their own net.