This is the guy and team that mj was so afraid of?

[Bronbron23]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i_1nHisvzd4 Hear this narrative all the time. Nothing against hakeem and the rockets. Hes a great player and that was a good team but mj dosnt exactly look scared. He looks motivated and cocky af as usual.

And yeah i know theres videos of hakeem blocking mj and dominating the bulls and im sure mj respected hakeem and the rockets but he definitely wasnt scared of him. Would of been a great finals had mj not retired and they hooked up.

[Roundball_Rock]

The narrative is based on other years but players change over time as do rosters. Thorpe in 1994 wasn't what he was in 1992. In the years in question, the Bulls did well. The problem with this narrative is in 1994 and 1995 the Bulls played well against the Rockets, going 2-1 when Pippen played (one loss when he was out). So if they did well with Pete Myers in place of MJ, why wouldn't they with MJ? :confusedshrug:

1994

11/23/93: Rockets 100, Bulls 93

Hakeem 28/11/3, Grant 18/13/5. Pippen out.

1/15/94: Bulls 82, Rockets 76

Hakeem 29/10/4, Pippen 25/12/6.

1995

11/17/94: Rockets 106, Bulls 83

Hakeem 29/14/4.

1/22/95: Bulls 100, Rockets 81

No one had a big game.

[ArbitraryWater]

its not speculation


MJ said it himself

pay attention, young buck

[Bronbron23]

its not speculation


MJ said it himself

pay attention, young buck

im sure he did and no one said it was speculation. Saying your worried about a center who your defense has nobody for and being personally scared of him is 2 totally different things. Does mj look scared to you?

[Roundball_Rock]

If you look at the Bulls' record against centers in the playoffs, who dominated against them? Ewing 93' appears to be the one time a center got more than his normal average against them. Everyone else (including Ewing in every other series) got their norm or below their norm. Cartwright, Longley don't get enough credit and the Bulls had great help defense, which including two elite defensive forwards at all times (except 95').

Hakeem would eat against the Bulls but he was doing that against everyone those years. That didn't stop Phoenix from twice taking them to the final game, the Knicks and Jazz doing so at well. If those teams could do it, the Bulls with MJ couldn't in 1994?

[Bronbron23]

If you look at the Bulls' record against centers in the playoffs, who dominated against them? Ewing 93' appears to be the one time a center got more than his normal average against them. Everyone else (including Ewing in every other series) got their norm or below their norm. Cartwright, Longley don't get enough credit and the Bulls had great help defense, which including two elite defensive forwards at all times (except 95').

Hakeem would eat against the Bulls but he was doing that against everyone those years. That didn't stop Phoenix from twice taking them to the final game, the Knicks and Jazz doing so at well. If those teams could do it, the Bulls with MJ couldn't in 1994?

Yeah good point and im not even saying bulls would win with mj in those years if mj dosn't retire. Theres still burnout that has to be taken into the equation. All im saying is its obvious mj wasnt scared and it would of been a good close finals either way.

[ArbitraryWater]

im sure he did and no one said it was speculation. Saying your worried about a center who your defense has nobody for and being personally scared of him is 2 totally different things. Does mj look scared to you?

Lmao, do you want him to literally look scared?

He didn't want to face Hakeem, thats all it is.

[Roundball_Rock]

I think they win even if MJ burns out and is 50% of himself. They had a zero at SG in Myers. 50% of MJ>>>>Myers.

The Rockets and Bulls both played the Knicks. One team won and the other lost but the results were razor thin. The Rockets were one shot away from losing in Game 6, the Bulls were a historically bad "phantom foul" call away from a 3-2 lead heading to Chicago Stadium. All this is without MJ. Add MJ and it's game over.

1995 the Bulls shouldn't be in the conversation. They had a shot and lost to Orlando. I brought up their 95' record against Houston to show they weren't getting crushed by Houston those years. Even without MJ they were 2-2--and one loss was without Pippen.

[imdaman99]

I think they win even if MJ burns out and is 50% of himself. They had a zero at SG in Myers. 50% of MJ>>>>Myers.

The Rockets and Bulls both played the Knicks. One team won and the other lost but the results were razor thin. The Rockets were one shot away from losing in Game 6, the Bulls were a historically bad "phantom foul" call away from a 3-2 lead heading to Chicago Stadium. All this is without MJ. Add MJ and it's game over.

1995 the Bulls shouldn't be in the conversation. They had a shot and lost to Orlando. I brought up their 95' record against Houston to show they weren't getting crushed by Houston those years. Even without MJ they were 2-2--and one loss was without Pippen.

The Bulls were a Phil Jackson designing an end of game play for Scottie away from losing in 5 to the Knicks :confusedshrug:

Without MJ, the Bulls did not just win 1 less game than with MJ, they lost 10 less. 9 in the playoffs.

[HoopsNY]

The Knicks took the Rockets to 7 games in 1993-94, so it's not unreasonable to think that Chicago would have won in a series against Houston, especially with Pippen, Grant, and Armstrong hitting their peaks.

But 1994-95 would be a completely different story. The Bulls lose Grant and with no big body down low to counter Hakeem, he might drop 35-40 on them in a series. Add that to the fact that the Rockets added Clyde and the Rockets win that series in 6 or 7.

[Bronbron23]

Lmao, do you want him to literally look scared?

He didn't want to face Hakeem, thats all it is.

Disagree. He looks like a guy who wants all the smoke and you know he does even though you cant admit it. If you want to see someone who literally looks scared though here you go. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=r-Lg3U9TXE8

This is to easy:facepalm

[Roundball_Rock]

Without MJ

We aren't talking the Knicks fans' "Stockholm Syndrome" with MJ here :sleeping--we are saying the team was strong without him that with MJ they beat the Rockets without a doubt. (Fact check, though, if Kukoc misses the game goes into OT. The myths never end.)


But 1994-95 would be a completely different story. The Bulls lose Grant and with no big body down low to counter Hakeem

Cartwright too. Cartwright did a great job on centers in the playoffs (a turning point in Game 7 was Cartwright getting into foul trouble--Ewing had 0 points in the first half but roasted Longley in the second).

1995 they lost to Orlando. Even with a "not rusty" MJ I don't know if they beat Orlando. MJ was 32/7/4 on 54% TS in the series. His stats in 95' actually>his stats in any of the second threepeat playoffs. Do we expect "not rusty" MJ to go 37/9/6 on 59% TS or something? If they somehow did get past Orlando, I doubt they beat Houston without an elite defensive PF.

Hakeem was going to eat regardless. The question is the rest of the team. That is where Drexler is huge. You also have the Jordan/Drexler match up. We saw that movie before. Who guards Pippen? Mario Elie?

[Akeem34TheDream]

Lol Rockets won that game.

[KD7]

Do you really want me to pull out the quotes?


https://youtu.be/B9TItcESf1Y

"There should be no doubt or label of fluke on our championships," said Hakeem Olajuwon. "As for Michael Jordan, a lot of people don't know and never looked up our matchups with Chicago during that time. If you check the records, you'll see that we beat them on a consistent basis when Michael was playing and winning his first three championships.

"(Vernon) Maxwell guarded Michael and gave him problems. In '95, we would have had Mario Elie on him. They didn't have anyone who could contain me. Chicago was never a problem for us. We always looked forward to playing them. A lot of people don't realize that."

The Rockets, in fact, had a 5-1 record vs. Jordan and the Bulls from 1991 through 1993, the span of Chicago's first "three-peat."

After a loss on his home floor at Chicago Stadium in 1993, Jordan said, "We have no answer for the big guy. It's a good thing they won't ever make it to the (NBA) Finals, because I don't think we could beat them."

[Bronbron23]

Do you really want me to pull out the quotes?


https://youtu.be/B9TItcESf1Y

"There should be no doubt or label of fluke on our championships," said Hakeem Olajuwon. "As for Michael Jordan, a lot of people don't know and never looked up our matchups with Chicago during that time. If you check the records, you'll see that we beat them on a consistent basis when Michael was playing and winning his first three championships.

"(Vernon) Maxwell guarded Michael and gave him problems. In '95, we would have had Mario Elie on him. They didn't have anyone who could contain me. Chicago was never a problem for us. We always looked forward to playing them. A lot of people don't realize that."

The Rockets, in fact, had a 5-1 record vs. Jordan and the Bulls from 1991 through 1993, the span of Chicago's first "three-peat."

After a loss on his home floor at Chicago Stadium in 1993, Jordan said, "We have no answer for the big guy. It's a good thing they won't ever make it to the (NBA) Finals, because I don't think we could beat them."

regular season dude. In the 2 years the bulls beat the jazz in the finals the jazz has a winning record against mj and the bulls too and we know how that ended up.

[KD7]

regular season dude. In the 2 years the bulls beat the jazz in the finals the jazz has a winning record against mj and the bulls too and we know how that ended up.
Jordan literally said with his own mouth that he was glad that he didn't face Hakeem in the finals because they had no answer for him and he didn't believe he could win against the Rockets

[Roundball_Rock]

The flip side is how does Houston defend Jordan?

Penny went 26/5/8 on them. Even John Starks was 19/3/7 through 6 games before he had an all-time choke in Game 7 (Starks likely would have been FMVP if he made that shot at the end of Game 6). Imagine MJ against Houston. We saw the MJ vs. Drexler battle before--and this was a lesser version of Drexler.

[Bronbron23]

Jordan literally said with his own mouth that he was glad that he didn't face Hakeem in the finals because they had no answer for him and he didn't believe he could win against the Rockets

Saying they dont have an answer isnt saying you cant win. Did he actually say they cant win? If so thats news to me and pretty interesting.

[Phoenix]

The Bulls were 1-3 against the Knicks in 93 and 1-3 against Utah in 97 and 98 total. Oddly nobody ever makes the point that Chicago was 3-1 against the Rockets in 96 and 97. No, not the prime Rocket squads but Hakeem was 2nd team all-nba/all-defense in 96 and 1st team all-nba in 97. As was the case from 91-93 the Rockets didn't do their part and get to the finals. We can't make season head to heads count only when convenient.

I get the point that Chicago had no answer for Dream. But basically nobody did outside of New York, San Antonio and Orlando. Seattle knocked out Houston in 93 and 96 with Sam Perkins and Ervin Johnson in the middle. Kenny Smith just recently spoke to the lack of Grant or Rodman on the team those years and he's non-committal:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lD4s7KeIWxs

I've always thought the Bulls with MJ beat the Rockets in 94. That would have been a REALLY good team with MJ, peak Pip and Grant, BJ, a rookie Kukoc, and with roster upgrades in Kerr, Longley. In essence the team that won 55 wins, a common talking point for the Bulls without MJ.....you can't now moonwalk away from that position by taking that team and adding MJ to it. That team would have been the perfect blend of the 1st and 2nd 3peat teams.

They lose in 95 *regardless* of whether MJ was there from the get-go or not. Kukoc at PF isn't going to get it down with frontlines of Shaq/Grant and Hakeem.

[Roundball_Rock]

Oddly nobody ever makes the point that Chicago was 3-1 against the Rockets in 96 and 97

Yeah, the narrative cuts off their record against the Bulls in 1993. 2-2 in the years the Rockets won, with 1 loss with Pippen out. So 5-3 from 1994-1997 and 5-2 when healthy.


As was the case from 91-93 the Rockets didn't do their part and get to the finals

Or make the playoffs at all in 92'.

A lot of this is based on the assumption that because the Bulls didn't have all-star centers, all-stars centers would roast the Bulls in series. This isn't supported by the historical record:

Ewing 88': 21/10/3 50%
Daughtery 89': 11/9/2 36%
Ewing 91': 17/10/2 40%
Ewing 92': 22/11/2 49%
Daughtery 92': 18/10/4 47%
Daughtery 93': 16/10/4 56%
Ewing 93': 26/11/3 53%
Ewing 94': 23/12/3 53%
Mourning 95': 22/13/3 42%
Shaq 95': 24/13/4 48%
Mourning 96': 18/6/1 49%
Ewing 96': 23/11/1 47%
Shaq 96': 27/11/4 64%
Mutumbo 97': 13/12/2 54%
Mourning 97': 16/9/1 47%
Smits 98': 16/5/1 55%

Ewing 93' appears to be the lone series where one of these centers exceeded his normal production. The rest were either on par or subpar.

Cartwright was a good defender (the reason the Bulls traded for him--especially with facing Ewing in mind), Longley had size. Plus, they had little offensive responsibility and they weren't the primary or secondary rebounder (the forwards did that), so they could focus on defense. The Bulls also had the benefit of great help defense and two elite defensive forwards (except in 95').


That would have been a REALLY good team with MJ, peak Pip and Grant, BJ, a rookie Kukoc, and with roster upgrades in Kerr, Longley. In essence the team that won 55 wins, a common talking point for the Bulls without MJ.

55 with injuries. With healthy Pippen they were on a 59 win pace, 63 win pace when Pippen and Grant played. If you put MJ on that team they are pushing for 70 wins if they are healthy (with injuries probably 65-67).

[HoopsNY]

We aren't talking the Knicks fans' "Stockholm Syndrome" with MJ here :sleeping--we are saying the team was strong without him that with MJ they beat the Rockets without a doubt. (Fact check, though, if Kukoc misses the game goes into OT. The myths never end.)



Cartwright too. Cartwright did a great job on centers in the playoffs (a turning point in Game 7 was Cartwright getting into foul trouble--Ewing had 0 points in the first half but roasted Longley in the second).

1995 they lost to Orlando. Even with a "not rusty" MJ I don't know if they beat Orlando. MJ was 32/7/4 on 54% TS in the series. His stats in 95' actually>his stats in any of the second threepeat playoffs. Do we expect "not rusty" MJ to go 37/9/6 on 59% TS or something? If they somehow did get past Orlando, I doubt they beat Houston without an elite defensive PF.

Hakeem was going to eat regardless. The question is the rest of the team. That is where Drexler is huge. You also have the Jordan/Drexler match up. We saw that movie before. Who guards Pippen? Mario Elie?

Hakeem dropped 33 a game on Shaq. No Cartwright, no Grant. What's Hakeem doing? 37/15? Maybe 40/17? Drexler would hold his own and the Rockets supporting cast would be alright.

The Rockets swept Orlando...who beat Chicago. MJ there doesn't make a difference IMO.

[Phoenix]

Yep, I've always felt a complete locked and loaded 94 Bulls squad could have pushed 70 if they got on a streak and decided to push it. Would have also come before the expansion of 95.

[Bronbron23]

Hakeem dropped 33 a game on Shaq. No Cartwright, no Grant. What's Hakeem doing? 37/15? Maybe 40/17? Drexler would hold his own and the Rockets supporting cast would be alright.

The Rockets swept Orlando...who beat Chicago. MJ there doesn't make a difference IMO.

But the bulls swept orlando too the year after. Expecting mj and the bulls to be at full capacity after mj was away for a year and a half playing a different sport is ridiculous. It takes alot more than 17 games to do that.

That said Hakeem was gonna be a handful regardless. I think the bulls with mj at full capacity could of maybe figured out a way to win in 94 but im not sure about 95 when they had drexler. Would of been tough

[HoopsNY]

The Bulls were 1-3 against the Knicks in 93 and 1-3 against Utah in 97 and 98 total. Oddly nobody ever makes the point that Chicago was 3-1 against the Rockets in 96 and 97. No, not the prime Rocket squads but Hakeem was 2nd team all-nba/all-defense in 96 and 1st team all-nba in 97. As was the case from 91-93 the Rockets didn't do their part and get to the finals. We can't make season head to heads count only when convenient.

I get the point that Chicago had no answer for Dream. But basically nobody did outside of New York, San Antonio and Orlando. Seattle knocked out Houston in 93 and 96 with Sam Perkins and Ervin Johnson in the middle. Kenny Smith just recently spoke to the lack of Grant or Rodman on the team those years and he's non-committal:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lD4s7KeIWxs

I've always thought the Bulls with MJ beat the Rockets in 94. That would have been a REALLY good team with MJ, peak Pip and Grant, BJ, a rookie Kukoc, and with roster upgrades in Kerr, Longley. In essence the team that won 55 wins, a common talking point for the Bulls without MJ.....you can't now moonwalk away from that position by taking that team and adding MJ to it. That team would have been the perfect blend of the 1st and 2nd 3peat teams.

They lose in 95 *regardless* of whether MJ was there from the get-go or not. Kukoc at PF isn't going to get it down with frontlines of Shaq/Grant and Hakeem.

I think you highlight some good points. With peak Grant, Pippen, and Armstrong in 1993-94, the Bulls might win 65-70 games. They'd likely beat Houston in a 7 game series.

But come the next season and things are a bit different. The Rockets' young guys in Horry and Cassell were improving, which made them a bigger threat come playoff time.

Sam Cassell RS-Playoffs-Finals (1993-95)
RS '93-'94: 6.7/2.0/2.9 on 51% TS%
RS '94-'95: 9.5/2.6/4.9 on 56% TS%

Playoffs 1994: 9.4/2.7/4.2 on 54% TS%
Playoffs 1995: 11.0/1.9/4.0 on 59% TS%

Finals 1994: 10.0/3.1/2.9 on 62% TS%
Finals 1995: 14.3/1.8/2.3 on 63% TS%

Robert Horry RS-Playoffs-Finals (1993-95)
RS '93-'94: 9.9/5.4/2.9 on 52% TS%
RS '94-'95: 10.2/5.1/3.4 on 54% TS%

Playoffs 1994: 11.7/6.1/3.6 on 54% TS%
Playoffs 1995: 13.1/7.0/3.5 on 59% TS%

Finals 1994: 10.3/6.1/3.7 on 43% TS%
Finals 1995: 17.8/10.0/3.8 on 57% TS%

Add this marked improvement with Hakeem and Clyde, and I think the Rockets win in 6.

[KD7]

Rockets had Maxwell and Mario Elie who were both feisty defenders who could at least slow down MJ a little bit whilst the Bulls had absolutely nothing to stop Hakeem

I don't see how the Bulls would be able to overcome the Rockets in a 7 game series. It's just a bad matchup especially considering MJ said he was fatigued physically and mentally after 3 straight

There is a good reason why no team ever have been able to 4 peat

[HoopsNY]

But the bulls swept orlando too the year after. Expecting mj and the bulls to be at full capacity after mj was away for a year and a half playing a different sport is ridiculous. It takes alot more than 17 games to do that.

That said Hakeem was gonna be a handful regardless. I think the bulls with mj at full capacity could of maybe figured out a way to win in 94 but im not sure about 95 when they had drexler. Would of been tough

But that's the point. He was at full strength then and they added Dennis Rodman who was a significant presence down low for rebounding and defense. Who defends in 1994-95, particularly with a low post presence like Hakeem?

I agree with your take. 1994 the Bulls win. 1995 I think they lose.

[Horatio33]

Jordan literally said with his own mouth that he was glad that he didn't face Hakeem in the finals because they had no answer for him and he didn't believe he could win against the Rockets

Show us the evidence of Jordan saying that.

[Bronbron23]

Rockets had Maxwell and Mario Elie who were both feisty defenders who could at least slow down MJ a little bit whilst the Bulls had absolutely nothing to stop Hakeem

I don't see how the Bulls would be able to overcome the Rockets in a 7 game series. It's just a bad matchup especially considering MJ said he was fatigued physically and mentally after 3 straight

There is a good reason why no team ever have been able to 4 peat

I agree its not an ideal matchup for the bulls. I just think theres a possibility mj rises to the occasion and gets the win. A motivated mj is tough especially in his prime. I admit i really cant call that series though. Hakeem woukd be a serious problem

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I see Kenny's point in that video.

Don't think the Bulls 8-peat if Jordan stays. Its possible but sounds like crazy talk, especially after hearing all the drama during the 98 season. Its possible the Bulls 4-peat from '91-94 but I don't see how they are beating the 95 Rockets who also added Drexler. That's a huge undertaking after coming off 4 straight.

Houston would've definitely been their best comp though.

[Roundball_Rock]

Yep, I've always felt a complete locked and loaded 94 Bulls squad could have pushed 70 if they got on a streak and decided to push it. Would have also come before the expansion of 95.

Agreed and it would have been the only time both MJ and Pippen had their peaks overlap. The Bulls would have two all-NBA 1st team players. That is a big advantage against any team. Then Grant was at his peak, so was BJ, Kerr added elite three point shooting, Kukoc was up and down as a rookie but he was talented and had extra value to the Bulls as a second "point forward".


Hakeem dropped 33 a game on Shaq. No Cartwright, no Grant. What's Hakeem doing? 37/15? Maybe 40/17?

Mourning 95': 22/13/3 42%
Shaq 95': 24/13/4 48%

The Mourning stats don't tell the whole story. He roasted Will Perdue for two games but Longley shut him down as he started the final two games.

People keep acting like all-star centers were going 37/16 on the Bulls.

The Suns (twice) and Jazz almost beat those Rockets teams with no centers.

Hakeem vs. Suns 94': 29/14/5 56% FG (Joe Kleine, Mark West, Oliver Miller at C)
Hakeem vs. Suns 95': 30/9/4 51% (Joe Kleine and Danny Schayes)
Hakeem vs. Jazz 95': 35/9/4 57% (Antoine Carr and James Donaldson)

[Phoenix]

How did a team like the Sonics manage to beat the Rockets on either side of the back to back? Everyone is fixated on the matchup with Chicago when other teams with mediocre centers ( and worse lead players than MJ and Pippen) beat them. Like, Shawn Kemp and Gary Payton with Sam Perkins/Ernie Johnson can beat the Rockets....but Michael Jordan, Scottie and Horace/Rodman can't? For the reasons it's a 'bad matchup' for Chicago...why wasn't it for Seattle?

The Rockets got taken to 7 in 94 and 95 by the Suns with Oliver Miller and Joe Klein at center. The same basic team that won in 95 got swept by Seattle in 96. Seattle was the number 2 defensive team that year. Guess who was number 1?

There's a bit of cognitive dissonance going on here.

[KD7]

Show us the evidence of Jordan saying that.

I just did


Do you really want me to pull out the quotes?


https://youtu.be/B9TItcESf1Y

"There should be no doubt or label of fluke on our championships," said Hakeem Olajuwon. "As for Michael Jordan, a lot of people don't know and never looked up our matchups with Chicago during that time. If you check the records, you'll see that we beat them on a consistent basis when Michael was playing and winning his first three championships.

"(Vernon) Maxwell guarded Michael and gave him problems. In '95, we would have had Mario Elie on him. They didn't have anyone who could contain me. Chicago was never a problem for us. We always looked forward to playing them. A lot of people don't realize that."

The Rockets, in fact, had a 5-1 record vs. Jordan and the Bulls from 1991 through 1993, the span of Chicago's first "three-peat."

After a loss on his home floor at Chicago Stadium in 1993, Jordan said, "We have no answer for the big guy. It's a good thing they won't ever make it to the (NBA) Finals, because I don't think we could beat them."

[KD7]

How did a team like the Sonics manage to beat the Rockets on either side of the back to back? Everyone is fixated on the matchup with Chicago when other teams with mediocre centers ( and worse lead players than MJ and Pippen) beat them. Like, Shawn Kemp and Gary Payton with Sam Perkins/Ernie Johnson can beat the Rockets....but Michael Jordan, Scottie and Horace/Rodman can't? For the reasons it's a 'bad matchup' for Chicago...why wasn't it for Seattle?

The Rockets got taken to 7 in 94 and 95 by the Suns with Oliver Miller and Joe Klein at center. The same basic team that won in 95 got swept by Seattle in 96. Seattle was the number 2 defensive team that year. Guess who was number 1?

There's a bit of cognitive dissonance going on here.

Yh but you can't deny that Hakeems Rockets got the best of the Bulls in the regular season

And when MJ himself thought that he couldn't overcome Hakeem in a 7 game series it must mean something

No one knows for sure who would win but I personally would favour the Rockets especially when you take into consideration the Bulls possibly being fatigued trying to go for a 4th straight championship

[Phoenix]

Yh but you can't deny that Hakeems Rockets got the best of the Bulls in the regular season

And when MJ himself thought that he couldn't overcome Hakeem in a 7 game series it must mean something

No one knows for sure who would win but I personally would favour the Rockets especially when you take into consideration the Bulls possibly being fatigued trying to go for a 4th straight championship

Yes they did, but per my first post so did the Knicks and Jazz in the years they beat both in the playoffs. I just find the 'bad matchup' odd because every team in the league that doesn't have 'some' counter like Robinson/Ewing/Shaq is going to be at a huge disadvantage. Chicago and Seattle both had quick, trapping defenses with athletic forwards and great guard defenders ( MJ, Payton, Harper, McMillan). It seems to me the teams that either beat Houston( Seattle) or took them to the limit( Phoenix) didn't try to fight fire with fire as far as a direct positional counterpart to Hakeem. They attacked and defended in other ways. The Knicks were the other team to take them to 7 and that was with Ewing playing subpar. There were ways to skin the cat.

[Roundball_Rock]

The Rockets got taken to 7 in 94 and 95 by the Suns with Oliver Miller and Joe Klein at center. The same basic team that won in 95 got swept by Seattle in 96. Seattle was the number 2 defensive team that year. Guess who was number 1?

Yeah, people think Hakeem would go 45/20/13 if the other team didn't have Robinson or Ewing. We saw it throughout his career: he put up big playoff numbers and his teams kept losing, outside of two years.


Yh but you can't deny that Hakeems Rockets got the best of the Bulls in the regular season

Except in the years in question.


I just find the 'bad matchup' odd because every team in the league that doesn't have 'some' counter like Robinson/Ewing/Shaq is going to be at a huge disadvantage

It also ignores the Bulls time and again held opposing centers in check in the playoffs. At some point theory about "no center" has to give way to the facts.

[Bronbron23]

But that's the point. He was at full strength then and they added Dennis Rodman who was a significant presence down low for rebounding and defense. Who defends in 1994-95, particularly with a low post presence like Hakeem?

I agree with your take. 1994 the Bulls win. 1995 I think they lose.

Yeah the no rod or grant is huge problem

[Bronbron23]

I just did

interesting although i dont think it has anything with him fearing hakeem. He just knows hia bigs will get roasted. Im still surprised mj would say that in an interview. Good find

[Phoenix]

Here's a curious factoid. The Magic in 95 swept the Rockets season series 2-0. Actually let's extend that to the 94, 95, 96, and 97 seasons. Orlando was 7-1. Hell, take it up to 2001 for shits and giggles and it's 13-2. Of course you're dealing with very different teams as the years went along, but I trust the point's been made.

[Shooter]

How did a team like the Sonics manage to beat the Rockets on either side of the back to back? Everyone is fixated on the matchup with Chicago when other teams with mediocre centers ( and worse lead players than MJ and Pippen) beat them. Like, Shawn Kemp and Gary Payton with Sam Perkins/Ernie Johnson can beat the Rockets....but Michael Jordan, Scottie and Horace/Rodman can't? For the reasons it's a 'bad matchup' for Chicago...why wasn't it for Seattle?

The Rockets got taken to 7 in 94 and 95 by the Suns with Oliver Miller and Joe Klein at center. The same basic team that won in 95 got swept by Seattle in 96. Seattle was the number 2 defensive team that year. Guess who was number 1?

There's a bit of cognitive dissonance going on here.

This is a known fact as my good friend KD7 pointed out:

The Rockets, in fact, had a 5-1 record vs. Jordan and the Bulls from 1991 through 1993, the span of Chicago's first "three-peat."

After a loss on his home floor at Chicago Stadium in 1993, Jordan said, "We have no answer for the big guy. It's a good thing they won't ever make it to the (NBA) Finals, because I don't think we could beat them."

My other good friend The Corporation has also pointed out that Jordan had a losing record to Hakeem

My other good friend LAmbruh has also pointed out "#notmygoat"

My other good friend And1AllDay has also pointed this out:

"hold up mike had a losing record against hakeem, isiah thomas and larry bird

#notmygoat"

My good friend trollsmasher also says

"I find his inability to even reach a regular season winning record without Pip more embarassing."

My good friend Manny says

"And Jordan couldn't get past the Magic in 95

The whole world was anticipating Jordan and Hakeem finally meeting on the biggest stage

And MJ let us down"

And my other friend JT123 says "Why couldn't MJ lead the Bulls to a better record to avoid playing the Celtics?
The East was weaker back then than it is today."

[Phoenix]

This is a known fact as my good friend KD7 pointed out:

The Rockets, in fact, had a 5-1 record vs. Jordan and the Bulls from 1991 through 1993, the span of Chicago's first "three-peat."

After a loss on his home floor at Chicago Stadium in 1993, Jordan said, "We have no answer for the big guy. It's a good thing they won't ever make it to the (NBA) Finals, because I don't think we could beat them."

My other good friend The Corporation has also pointed out that Jordan had a losing record to Hakeem

My other good friend LAmbruh has also pointed out "#notmygoat"

My other good friend And1AllDay has also pointed this out:

"hold up mike had a losing record against hakeem, isiah thomas and larry bird

#notmygoat"

My good friend trollsmasher also says

"I find his inability to even reach a regular season winning record without Pip more embarassing."

My good friend Manny says

"And Jordan couldn't get past the Magic in 95

The whole world was anticipating Jordan and Hakeem finally meeting on the biggest stage

And MJ let us down"

And my other friend JT123 says "Why couldn't MJ lead the Bulls to a better record to avoid playing the Celtics?
The East was weaker back then than it is today."

https://thane62.files.wordpress.com/2019/07/identity8.jpg

[SouBeachTalents]

You had to make a thread to state Jordan didn't look scared during a game? This is some 3ball level insecurity :lol

[Bronbron23]

You had to make a thread to state Jordan didn't look scared during a game? This is some 3ball level insecurity :lol

Relax fakkit it was just a video showing mj was his usual confident self against an opponent a bunch of people say he was scared of. I could care less if they could beat the rockets. I actually said im not sure they could

[SouBeachTalents]

Relax fakkit it was just a video showing mj was his usual confident self against an opponent a bunch of people say he was scared of. I could care less if they could beat the rockets. I actually said im not sure they could
Getting that defensive and saying I should relax :lol What a clown

[Bronbron23]

Getting that defensive and saying I should relax :lol What a clown

Who got defensive? Your the one talking about insecurity which is ironic because you stan the most insecure athlete probably ever.

[light]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i_1nHisvzd4 Hear this narrative all the time. Nothing against hakeem and the rockets. Hes a great player and that was a good team but mj dosnt exactly look scared. He looks motivated and cocky af as usual.

And yeah i know theres videos of hakeem blocking mj and dominating the bulls and im sure mj respected hakeem and the rockets but he definitely wasnt scared of him. Would of been a great finals had mj not retired and they hooked up.

Jordan had wrote that if guys he used to easily surpass were catching up to him that he would take it as a sign that he was slipping and that he would retire because he didn't want to read or hear the criticism he'd receive.

In 1993 Barkley and Hakeem both finished ahead of Jordan for MVP and it was the first time Hakeem finished ahead of him.

But I don't think he was afraid of Hakeem. He was afraid of what the press would say about him with Hakeem rising above him and, if you haven't learned by now, Jordan absolutely hates criticism.

[Axe]

I think you highlight some good points. With peak Grant, Pippen, and Armstrong in 1993-94, the Bulls might win 65-70 games. They'd likely beat Houston in a 7 game series.
Even with mj resting from the league for this entire season, you can't expect the bulls to win more than 60 games in the rs unless pippen averages more than 25 ppg and played in all of the 82 games. Well, that is according to 3ball's logic. But 55 wins is not too shabby for them at all, especially considering that they've lost their main scorer to early "retirement".