Who would you call the best rim protector you ever saw?

[Kblaze8855]

Let that term mean whatever it means to you. Im asking for your take on it. To me? Im not just talking blocked shots. Blocks vary a lot with the era and how your defense is designed. Some like the 90s Miami teams are designed to funnel people into a stationary shot blocker. Some are designed to prevent drives in the first place. Not all great defensive bigs are there for rim protection exactly. Some like Oakley, Malone, Chris Dudley, and others are man to man defenders. Some are there because they can disrupt entire offenses with anticipation, knowledge, and foot speed like KG or Joakim Noah in his prime. There are the jumping jack "Go after every block" bigs like Theo Ratliff, Chris Anderson, Marcus Camby for a while. There are the hard to get over bigs who blocked 5-6 shots a game like Manute and Eaton. Lot of ways to look at it. So my question isnt "GOAT defensive big". Im asking....who do you most trust to protect the basket regardless of what else is going on. Regardless of era, defensive system, or teammates.

In your time as a fan...you think "Rim protector"....who comes to mind as that guy?


The guy most likely to do something about it when *insert superstar slasher* is looking to attack all night when you have no other information about the situation.

[Reggie43]

Deke and Zo are the obvious ones when it comes to rim protection. Shaq putting you on your back so you dont dare enter the paint is another. But if I want my bigs to adapt to any style of play/era I want Olajuwon and Drob easy.

[Nashty]

Bill Russell

[Kblaze8855]

I suppose Shaq deserves a mention after almost nobody even tried him for 15ish years. Hard to quantify the value of people not wanting this to happen:

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/NaughtyHighBullmastiff-size_restricted.gif




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....so they decide not to attack him to begin with.

[oldtimer28]

Great question.

No idea. Must be Bill Russell but I never saw him play. Mutombo. Mourning. Come to mind but just rim protection, i think unknowns/low minute players like manute bol eg for the warriors. Teams would avoid the paint with him in the game.

Never saw shawn bradley or mureasan much.

I remember jim mcilvane and another centre having a good small sample size contract year then getting massively overpaid.

[Phoenix]

Shaq more or less engulfed your entire being when you met in the paint. And even before you went in there, you more or less knew you were gonna be the one on your ass. Someone like Zo might have been a more skilled shot blocker, but when Vince drove on him and dunked( you know the play) he was probably figuring the worse that happens is a blocked dunk and not a separated shoulder and bruised tailbone.

[oldtimer28]

Let that term mean whatever it means to you. Im asking for your take on it. To me? Im not just talking blocked shots. Blocks vary a lot with the era and how your defense is designed. Some like the 90s Miami teams are designed to funnel people into a stationary shot blocker. Some are designed to prevent drives in the first place. Not all great defensive bigs are there for rim protection exactly. Some like Oakley, Malone, Chris Dudley, and others are man to man defenders. Some are there because they can disrupt entire offenses with anticipation, knowledge, and foot speed like KG or Joakim Noah in his prime. There are the jumping jack "Go after every block" bigs like Theo Ratliff, Chris Anderson, Marcus Camby for a while. There are the hard to get over bigs who blocked 5-6 shots a game like Manute and Eaton. Lot of ways to look at it. So my question isnt "GOAT defensive big". Im asking....who do you most trust to protect the basket regardless of what else is going on. Regardless of era, defensive system, or teammates.

In your time as a fan...you think "Rim protector"....who comes to mind as that guy?


The guy most likely to do something about it when *insert superstar slasher* is looking to attack all night when you have no other information about the situation.
Just found this after my post...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/522643-the-greatest-nba-blocked-shot-artists-ever-minute-by-minute.amp.html

You can watch jordan vs warriors on youtube to see Bol in action.

[Nashty]

https://youtu.be/r4wbRy-C3Q4

6'10 height with 7'4 wingspan, could jump higher than prime Dwight, and run as fast as prime LeBron. GOAT

[HoopsNY]

Mutombo wins that crown for me. I think Mark Eaton is underrated in this category, though.

[hiphopanonymous]

I think it's Wilt or Russell.

Russell turn the block into a tactical weapon - altered his timing when he'd block or let you score so that you'd be tricked into thinking you had lanes early in the game that late in the game he could seal off - and was most dangerous according to Elgin Baylor if you "couldn't see him" (Baylor felt 1 on 1 he could score on Russell but if Russell was the help hiding out of sight, that's the major issue). He would also "fake" the shot block to force the offensive player into 2nd guessing if he should shoot or adjust his shot or pass.

Wilt on sheer athleticism and intimidation. Didn't tactically block as much as Russell - mostly just blocked - but with more physicality. Went after everything, goal tending or not. And though he was slow to anger he did some brutal looking blocks on the few film clips that exist and testimony of injuring players or making them eat the floor if they made him mad. Gobert length but with way more strength and athleticism - maybe the strongest to ever play. Like Shaq who was mentioned here, probably not a guy you even want to drive on. I think Wilt was more active on defense than Shaq - though maybe less often as forceful as he was slower to anger but similar impact on the psychology of the offensive players thinking twice about dunking or driving on him.

[KobesFinger]

Started watching basketball in 2006 or 2007, since then it's Dwight

[RRR3]

Probably Gobert, people don’t try that often against him. Prime Roy Hibbert was up there and of course Dwight Howard was a monster.

[Whoah10115]

That I've seen live would be David Robinson.

Dwight Howard exceptional...covered a lot of the paint.

[Patrick Chewing]

Can't believe no one has mentioned him yet. It's the 2-Time DPOY and All-Time Blocks Leader, Hakeem Olajuwon.

[wang4three]

Probably Ben Wallace, he did most of everything you mentioned between flexing to different defensive schemes, getting big blocks, being knowledgeable around defense. He wasn't that great man to man because he was undersized a lot as Center in his era, but I don't think he did terribly.

[HoopsNY]

Can't believe no one has mentioned him yet. It's the 2-Time DPOY and All-Time Blocks Leader, Hakeem Olajuwon.

I watched Hakeem play and his rim protection was remarkable, but his on the ball defense and help defense was really where he was money. I feel like Dikembe Mutombo was slightly better at rim protection, but I have no way of proving this. Would be interesting to see numbers on that.

[Horatio33]

Hakeem Olajuwon or Tim Duncan

[iamgine]

Yao Ming

[999Guy]

Just based off how it felt to watch him, Andrew Bogut when he made his GS renaissance.


It felt as though no lobs, floaters, and otherwise obvious drives would be successful in those two historic years.

Gobert is up there, especially when you are rooting for your team against Utah. You can just feel that presence from the TV.

[Round Mound]

David Robinson or Dekembe Moutombo in the 90s. In the 80's Mark Eaton...

[oldtimer28]

Started watching basketball in 2006 or 2007, since then it's Dwight

No.

Even gorbert is much better defensively.

[oldtimer28]

I watched Hakeem play and his rim protection was remarkable, but his on the ball defense and help defense was really where he was money. I feel like Dikembe Mutombo was slightly better at rim protection, but I have no way of proving this. Would be interesting to see numbers on that.

Like the block per minute numbers article that I posted?

[Clifton]

I say Ben Wallace. Big Ben was to defense what Jason Kidd was to offense. There may have been individual players who were more feared (Shaq), but Ben's game set the tone for the whole roster of a team that was one Horry 3 away from being a repeat champion in the mid-2000s.

A weak and low-scoring era contributed to this, but there isn't anything to defeat besides the competition that's there, and they didn't just defeat them, they held them under 70 points half the time. And this was a team with no real all-stars on it!

[ArbitraryWater]

McGee for me


https://youtu.be/qhNrJOZHlRI

[FKAri]

I suppose Shaq deserves a mention after almost nobody even tried him for 15ish years. Hard to quantify the value of people not wanting this to happen:

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https://thumbs.gfycat.com/RemoteGrizzledAustralianfreshwatercrocodile-size_restricted.gif





https://thumbs.gfycat.com/LegalEarlyGnat-size_restricted.gif



....so they decide not to attack him to begin with.

Flagrant fouls aren't an actual strategy in rim protection since you're breaking the rules of what is allowed. Otherwise there's all kinds of "meta" things that could count as rim protection.

[ArbitraryWater]

Flagrant fouls aren't an actual strategy in rim protection because you're basically breaking the rules of what is allowed.

Well the argument is they didn’t want that to happen, so they didn‘t try going to rim with him there

[Kblaze8855]

Flagrant fouls aren't an actual strategy in rim protection since you're breaking the rules of what is allowed. Otherwise there's all kinds of "meta" things that could count as rim protection.


Hack a Shaq is breaking the “rules” which is why the player gets free throws. It’s also obviously a strategy. Calling a timeout you don’t have to concede a technical free throw is against the rules....but it lets you inbound on your side which is how a finals team sent a game to overtime. A lot of violations can be strategic. Like a sacrifice in chess. You concede the foul and violation for the greater good. You don’t have to like it but strategy is exactly the word for it.

[tpols]

probably tim duncan... not a flashy shotblocker, just always in the right place at the right time.

[Dr Hawk]

Hakeem and Duncan for me.

1. Hakeem
2. Duncan

[ArbitraryWater]

Hakeem and Duncan for me.

1. Hakeem
2. Duncan

Hakeem was actually known to be a bit of a gambler right? Going for blocks

[FKAri]

Hack a Shaq is breaking the “rules” which is why the player gets free throws. It’s also obviously a strategy. Calling a timeout you don’t have to concede a technical free throw is against the rules....but it lets you inbound on your side which is how a finals team sent a game to overtime. A lot of violations can be strategic. Like a sacrifice in chess. You concede the foul and violation for the greater good. You don’t have to like it but strategy is exactly the word for it.

A sacrifice in chess? No it's not like that at all. Something similar in chess would like breaking the clock and have them replace it while you use the time to think of your next move.

[Dr Hawk]

Hakeem was actually known to be a bit of a gambler right? Going for blocks

Early in his career he was, yes.

[Kblaze8855]

A sacrifice in chess? No it's not like that at all. Something similar in chess would like breaking the clock and have them replace it while you use the time to think of your next move.

No....

A foul is an expected part of the game which is why they are tracked, have set penalties, a number you’re allowed, and well defined by type. Breaking the clock isn’t chess. A foul is basketball.

[FKAri]

No....

A foul is an expected part of the game which is why they are tracked, have set penalties, a number you’re allowed, and well defined by type. Breaking the clock isn’t chess. A foul is basketball.
I agree in regards to regular fouls but Shaq body slamming someone to the ground isn't basketball. I'm singling out flagrant and technical kind of fouls as "abnormal" and not part of the game. Though my opinion of what should be a flagrant is quite different from what's called but that's another matter.

[Kblaze8855]

You don’t decide what basketball is. In every one of those examples he continued playing. One of them wasn’t even called a foul. The league in most cases give you two of even the worse ones. At least at the time. A hard foul to send a message is older than pro ball. Basketball at its inception was somewhat physical and got to be more so. What it is now changes with the league....but certainly not with your opinion.

[Kblaze8855]

Dr. Naismith describing literally the first game of basketball:


"The boys began tackling, kicking and punching in the clenches. They ended up in a free-for-all in the middle of the gym floor. Before I could pull them apart, one boy was knocked out, several of them had black eyes and one had a dislocated shoulder."

[LoneyROY7]

They don't call him Stonewall Timmy for nothing.

Stonewall Timmy D.

[tpols]

people in naismith's era were smaller... it would be interesting to see shaq placed back then.

[PoutinPippin]

I suppose Shaq deserves a mention after almost nobody even tried him for 15ish years. Hard to quantify the value of people not wanting this to happen:

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/NaughtyHighBullmastiff-size_restricted.gif




https://thumbs.gfycat.com/RemoteGrizzledAustralianfreshwatercrocodile-size_restricted.gif





https://thumbs.gfycat.com/LegalEarlyGnat-size_restricted.gif



....so they decide not to attack him to begin with.
1995 Jordan dunked his ass TWICE in the playoffs

[Smoke117]

I suppose Shaq deserves a mention after almost nobody even tried him for 15ish years. Hard to quantify the value of people not wanting this to happen:

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/NaughtyHighBullmastiff-size_restricted.gif




https://thumbs.gfycat.com/RemoteGrizzledAustralianfreshwatercrocodile-size_restricted.gif





https://thumbs.gfycat.com/LegalEarlyGnat-size_restricted.gif



....so they decide not to attack him to begin with.

lol That's bullshit. Shaq got attacked plenty of times at the rim. For most of his career he was lazy as hell defensively. There's a reason he posted career highs in rpg and bpg his rookie season.

[Kblaze8855]

Attacked as in scored over of course. You can’t play in the nba and not be. But people didn’t go at Shaq to embarrass him like they did other bigs. You could compile a top ____ dunked on list for every modern big but him. People didn’t really try him that often.

A lot of people have their career high in defensive numbers early. I believe we had a topic on that once. Even goes for guards. Lots of people block more shots young. Vince Carter was one of them. Just in my mind looking at the gif in there. Blocks and rebounds people often go hard on before settling down later.

[Smoke117]

Attacked as in scored over of course. You can’t play in the nba and not be. But people didn’t go at Shaq to embarrass him like they did other bigs. You could compile a top ____ dunked on list for every modern big but him. People didn’t really try him that often.

A lot of people have their career high in defensive numbers early. I believe we had a topic on that once. Even goes for guards. Lots of people block more shots young. Vince Carter was one of them. Just in my mind looking at the gif in there. Blocks and rebounds people often go hard on before settling down later.

It has nothing to do with that and you know it. Shaq always cared more about scoring than anything else throughout his career. That rookie season he was just trying more as far as rebounding and blocking shots goes. There's a reason why we say he COULD have been the GOAT if he had any work ethic.

[warriorfan]

Flagrant fouls aren't an actual strategy in rim protection since you're breaking the rules of what is allowed. Otherwise there's all kinds of "meta" things that could count as rim protection.

It is. Just like talking up the refs and insisting on every call when you drive. Committing tons of fouls at the beginning of the game to set the tone and try to alter how the game will be called. Or in football taking a few unnecessary roughness penalties to keep the receivers from thinking twice about going over the middle. It’s technically against the rules but it doesn’t mean it’s not part of the game.

[3ball]

Marcus Camby

[Axe]

It has nothing to do with that and you know it. Shaq always cared more about scoring than anything else throughout his career. That rookie season he was just trying more as far as rebounding and blocking shots goes. There's a reason why we say he COULD have been the GOAT if he had any work ethic.
I could agree with this. It's one big reason why the lakers lost in the 2004 finals against the pistons, despite being heavily favored over their underdog rivals. If only he prioritized to grab boards and block shots while leaving the scoring to his teammates, they probably could have won that series.

[Whoah10115]

Those Shaq gifs are part of the game. It was on offense that it was an issue. Shaq wasn't particularly dirty with smaller players.

I didn't pick Hakeem because we were talking specifically about rim protection. He's up there, regardless, but he did so many different things.

Patrick ahead of Duncan if we're talking rim protection.

[Vragrant]

Alonzo Mourning. Couldn't get anything past that guy, I used to literally predict before a player shot the ball that he was going to swat it.

[Bimbo Coles]

Dream... agility, anticipation, presence. And Ewing is underrated in, well, every facet.

[Lebron23]

Big Ben Wallace

[kkb_12]

Shaq
DRob
Ewing

Honorable mention - healthy Sabonis

[FireDavidKahn]

Bill Russell

I doubt you are almost 100

[BigShotBob]

Definitely Bill Russell. Not even close.

[insidious301]

Ben Wallace in the mid 2000s is up there. Anchored that Detroit Pistons team. David Robinson(amazing stats) and 90s Mutombo were on top of that mountain imo. Those 3 are probably best that I have seen.

[rmt]

Marcus Camby

Duncan should have gotten it that year - voters and their fascination with Camby's swats. It's a shame TD never won a DPOY - decades of anchoring great defensive teams.

[jayfan]

Big Ben



.

[Manny98]

LeBron

































jk obviously Ben Wallace

[EllEffEll]

I doubt you are almost 100

LOL. I went to my first Laker game in 1963 and I'm nowhere near 100.

I'm going with Bill Russell too. Russell actively altered a team's offense like nobody I have ever seen. It's what made Bill Russell great. I HATED the Celtics, but greatly admired Bill Russell.

[1987_Lakers]

I've seen a few Blazers games from '77 & '78 and Bill Walton's rim protection was outstanding, just thought he deserves a mention. His defense goes unnoticed at times.

[GimmeThat]

Marcus Camby, particularly if we're talking about Rim protection and not the painted area. whose career best defensive rating was posted at 91.

[Dr Hawk]

LOL. I went to my first Laker game in 1963 and I'm nowhere near 100.

I'm going with Bill Russell too. Russell actively altered a team's offense like nobody I have ever seen. It's what made Bill Russell great. I HATED the Celtics, but greatly admired Bill Russell.


This is usually a good sign of how good a player was.